Trollhammer Gyrocopters
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- / @costin_gaming
Big thanks to Costin Gaming for submitting this doomstack.
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I think the Lahmian Sisterhood is the faction that shows up when dwarfs build the Sealed Tombs at Silver Pinnacle. If it is them, they're super cheesable because if you place an army at the bottom of the pass, it will block the path with its zone of control and the waves of armies will go the long way around to attack Silver Pinnacle. For some reason they won't attack the blocking army. Since they don't create much vampiric corruption, they will slowly die of attrition.
I did it yesterday in ny campaign. It was the sisterhood. About 4 waves i think 4 armies each. The first one had 3 tho
That is correct sir!
That is hilarious to hear, thank for sharing!
This is an amazing tip, I wish I’d known this sooner before fighting 4 painful battles in one turn, abusing throgrim’s +25% movement upon victory to do a Robert Baratheon is fun but manual resolve is a necessity
Sounds like wasted money and xp.
This doomstack is probably one of the quickest doomstacks you can get out of any faction. Malakai's adventures give you access to 3 units that each adventure is based on, so looking at the army, he only had to recruit 1 brimstone varient, 1 regular varient, 3 trollhammer varient and the engineers. The rest came from the adventures, you could probably recruit the full army by turn 20 and the vampire count army he faced spawns when you construct the unique building for silver pinnacle.
Yep, very easy to recruit. Trollhammers require to get age of reckoning to full, which can be a bit iffy but still.
Engineers come from Malakai's level 12 skill, doesn't require a building even. Though I think the copters come from the engineer's guild anways. Adventures also give you enemy incursions to optionally fight worth a good amount of experience.
My only complaint is that Gotrek and Felix feel a bit wasted on this army. Could replace them with rangers or something, a stalk unit for sneaking up on enemy ranged. Can't think of much else that would be helpful in the early game. Maybe a cannon with the stalk artillery rune?
i think you get one engineer from quest.
@@Avengedtenfold Bodyguards in case your lords aren't hidden. I promise you'll need them on a campaign at least once
@@Avengedtenfold not only do they act as bodyguards but they make for a nice roleplay value, especially with Ulrika thrown in the mix
As others have stated, these armies spawn for 10 turns during a defense style grudge quest at Silver Pinnacle. You can start the construction of the building that initiates the grudge as early as you can occupy the settlement and reach tier 3, so turn 40 is about right.
As for the experienced units, Malakai has a building on his pseudo hoard mechanic that provides +- 300 xp per turn, which you'd prioritize getting pretty early since it unlocks Ulrika.
As someone who's had to face off against Ungrim, Thorgrim, and Thorek one after another (each with 20+ settlements) while playing as Tamurkhan, trollhammer gyrocopters and thunderbarges were the bane of my existence. Oh and Thorgrim's entire army becomes unbreakable when facing enemies with 1000+ grudges, which a chaos player will almost always be.
Yeah the dmg with their war machine is absurd, plus the millions of slayer that they can just deploy making their entire army unbreakable is entirely insane. I dont want to fight the dwarf they scare me
@@ezrakristianto8069 Stop grudgin' and we'll leave you alone!
@@RobinTheBot im sorry for my SHORTcomings, but i rlly need my talabecland to be complete not be taken by a SHORT shirtless man.
Hey cheers for checking it out Legend.
Regarding the army, xp, and the end game forces.
Silver Pinacle has a structure for a legendary grudge that starts spawning these Vampire End Game forces over 10 turns. Pretty nasty stuff since it's only a tier 2 structure.
XP Wise: Malikai has a lot of XP benefits: Gyros benefit from his adventures with things like Missile Block in 360, healing damage in battles and so on.
His horde army also gives extra XP, Gotrek has training and I used this army to take out the Chaos Dwarf Capital.
Runesmith was there to give armor and reduce enemy missile res, Gotrek for extra benefits vs various factions and Ulrika for spells. Fun stuff.
The army does very well when you keep it on the move but it's damage increases by a lot if you move near Malikai and use his ability that buffs units around him.
With respect to recruitment: Grudges are easy enough to handle if you cheese it, but even without Trollhammers these do very well. Gyros are very easy to recruit.
Hey costin what are your thoughts on dire wolves and warhounds for the chaos factions
1:00 Pretty sure those are armies spawned by Silver Pinnacle grudge no?
Yes
Yes. You rebuild the crypt in the silver pinnacle and armies start spawning
There definitely seems to be something like that. But I believe that Legend didn't play (much of) dwarves yet so he's probably just not aware of it.
He hasn't played a dwarf campaing yet
All these Gyrocopters one might as well play Fortunate Son when using an army/air force like this.
Legend showed us ww2 vs. Bows and arrows; ww1 vs. Bows and arrows; and now its the Gulf War vs. bows and arrows
It's for Silver Pinacle landmark/grudge, it spawn tons of these armies. Great for testing doomstacks. You can easily get 4 of these at the same time.
So in another word they have given the Dwarves an A10 athunderbolts, can you imagine this Army vs Kholek sumeater ? 😂😂😂
I encountered ONE of those trollhammer gyrocopters with my Beasts of Nurgle memestack and I had no fliers ... I nearly shat my pants when 1 volley took more than 50% of hp of 1 beast. I barely survived by manipulating AI to switching targets
I was wondering about this. At first I thought "it's obviously a doomstack boosted to absurd levels" like the Thunderbarge stack. But what you're saying is they are ALWAYS that strong, even with only a single squadron. I love seeing my original favorite faction from WH:1 getting a boost, but this stinks like another power creeping, pay-to-win DLC like the Chorfs, with little to no work put into balancing.
@@darksidecookies2145 Trollhammer gyros are not part of the dlc though, you get them with dwarf rework.
For me it actually felt opposite, when I was fighting dwarfs I felt challenged. I had to change that stack to get 1-2 rot flies just to chase away Gyros. So while hard I had fun fighting them in later stages of my campaign, while normally I would just stomp everyone.
Also keep in mind that Beasts of Nurgle have weakness to fire and not the largest of hp pools, so it's pretty bad matchup for them.
Thunderbarge is on another level tho, it just kills units in melee that are supposed to "counter" it and kills units on ground before they can snipe it.
7:10 I was thinking the same thing about Friendly Fire. Almost melted Elspeth the first time my gun line opened up.
Considering you haven’t played the dwarfs yet I can understand how you doubt that stack by 40, but I assure you it’s totally possible with malakai, he’s kind of broken beyond belief. Also those armies spawn there when you build a certain building in the silver pinnacle as dwarfs.
Yeah it was a bit funny seeing Legend say: He cheated to do it.
Me: "Oh Legend you just don't know HOW broken dwarfs are yet!"
Oh, the sisterhood, in my recent Thorgrim Campaign, my first Hard Campaign, i confederate Ungrim who had Silver Pinnacle, I built the tomb and the Sister Armies respawned…. And are just… *there* I can’t attack them, they can’t attack me, they’re just sitting there, staring. And taking attrition damage 😂
I was waiting when you'll finally notice those cheeky bastards. They were MVPs through most of my Malakai campaign, running helicopter spam as his main army bringing flying death to chaos cavemen. Just delete any large unit and decent against infantry. The only downside is nasty friendly fire damage to other choppers - sometimes it was the sole source of casualties for my army.
That build is legit. Malakais skills lets you hire 3 engenieers and Gyros are cheaper.
Having 1 or 2 trollhammer gyrocopters in an army over thunderbarges could be a good idea since the gyrocopters are way more accurate against ground targets then flying ones. Two barrages from a unit of gyrocopters will kill Throgg for example and for any other large foot lord or hero they will absolutely delete them. For this specific application I would say the trollhammer gyrocopters are better than thunderbarges.
I’m doing an Ungrim campaign right now was going to test out if you can constantly farm the Lahmian Sisterhood by building and demolishing the tombs. I parked a lord there with an army strong enough to auto resolve every battle by taking replenishment after each. He gained 30 levels by the time the building was complete.
Watching the long range trollhammer torpedos delete things is so much fun. I had the two that spawn in the all grudge setller army destroy Throgg in a couple volleys but they need to be around 8 infantry ranks inside their range to be deadly accurate
Although the trollhammer gyros are obviously really good, its worth mentioning that the regular trollhammer torpedo irondrakes are very good anti large and lord snipers. I had two in an army snipe a level 30 archaon in two or three volleys. They make the goblin hewers look and feel worthless in comparison as they have nearly double the ramge and put out way more dps.
Doomcopters inbound
Edit : But seriously apart from the game balance that is so awful right now I think the environment design is the real problem in the current stage
Just look at how artificial the landscape looks
Look at those forest drops all over the battlefield with no real purpose
Just a bunch of trees here and there, there is no uniformity to it
The maps are really small and the player is limited most of the time by the map handicaps
That has been the case ever since the release of the game. There have actually been maps added in later patches only where this problem has been mitigated but the original bad ones haven't been erased or remade for some reason
Maps are the worst part of the game for me.
When I play older TW or 3K the difference hits hard. They're a huge miss.
My least favourite part of my Malakai campaign is the fucking maps. I would say the biggest weakness of my cannons and the dwarfs in general is that the maps are designed to be hindrances and to shield the AI from your firepower
@@dudeofstuff Yeah that's especially horrible when you're the defender and have to deploy at the bottom of a huge hill or behind a forest or things like that. When you're the defender and it's not an ambush or caught in forced march, your general should be competent enough to choose at least somewhat defensive terrain instead of giving the enemy the full advantage
I'd think the biggest strength here isn't necessarily flying monsters... Thunderers and Organ Guns (and even cannons) deal with most flying monsters just fine... These things are basically flying cannons with 145 speed. They completely avoid the LoS issues ground based anti-large artillery has, and they seem to be about as accurate as Thunderers, which is pretty bonkers. They deleted that Necromancer in a single volley while he was moving.
These would be an excellent replacement for anti-large artillery when facing any faction that deploys a lot of large entity units that lacks or has weak ranged options. Lizardmen, Nurgle, all Chaos forces, Norsca, and Skaven (you can just flank Ratlings and Jezzails with your speed) have no real answer to these units. You can likely add Bretonnians to the list too, unless they've actually brought mass Pegasus or Hippogryph Knights, which seems unlikely. These things probably destroy ground based cavalry too.
You can get gyrocopters really early now and the Lahmian Sisterhood goes end game crisis because of the grudge building you can construct in Silver Pinnacle.
I love the changes to the gyrocopters. They are actually useful now, and bring an interesting difference in play style.
I like costin, his early guide are pretty good and he's super active on his channel , very nice
Legend hit 500k. Keep going lad
I fought some end-game crisis dwarfs recently with a high level exalted great unclean one lord (with a bunch of monsters to back him up) and their gyrocopters and cannons nearly killed him before I could get to their army. Nasty stuff in the right situation.
I think the friendly fire settings are as close to perfect as they're gonna get. This is THE SINGLE ONLY PATCH I've ever played for WH3 that allowed me to throw mining charges and use Irondrakes with impunity. In any other patch the Irondrakes wouldn't shoot or would shoot and kill all my units in a football-field sized AoE lol
Same's true for mining charges. I haven't played with Weapons Teams or Gyros yet, maybe they're exceptions that need some tuning still. Whatever they did to fix Irondrakes, that needs to stay in above all else, it's a godsend versus the prior friendly fire hellscape.
Great video though, I just wanted to mention that I gotta admit, this is an aspect of the game that they seriously fixed, or at least that has been my impression on my end. Cool to see the Doomstack and your impressions regardless, thanks for the content!
Edit: Okay idk what happened, I just had a bunch of friendly fire incidents, maybe it depends on the map? Ugh, it wouldn't surprise me if spaghetti code was causing weird friendly fire issues.
Trollhammers copters are actually good at what they do 100%, I always keep one unit floating around for dealing with pretty much any fullstack
Legend: I really wanna stop that.
Dwarf: Nothing can stop us!
I love seeing dwarves chuck down elves and vamps. This looks so fun
Dwarfs not dwarves
In WH2 I remember the Sentinels of Xeti had a full stack and a half of dinosaurs by like turn 25
good ol gyros... brings a tear to my eye and a name struck from the book to see them preform.
the lamhian sisterhood shows up when the dwarfs start bulding a certain building in the settlement lahmian sisterhood starts in
I like allying dwarves for my elspeth campaign.
Gyrocopters, Steam Tanks, lines of riflemen, a few artillery batteries, and some outriders for resupply.
Bro just stood in the trees blocking his own shots.
Just did the Seal the Crypt event in my own campaign and saw those Lahmian armies; I think they're supposed to come in intervals but I saw one hold back, and a 3rd sprint up from behind, and ended up needing to fight 3 of them at once with one of the stacks being entirely Varghulf and Terrorgeists along with at least half of the other 2 stacks being those single entities as well.
Pretty scary stacks, worse than Crisis I think if they clump up. Luckily Thunderbarges are just obscenely powerful (I had 3), my Trollhammers did serious work as well. I had to use the city battle to win the battle since the AI splits the forces up.
Hey Legend, just wanted to say the link to Costin’s channel doesn’t work (on CZcams mobile at least).
It’s honesty funny to see Costin mentioned here. Been a subscriber of his for a long time, and it’s nice to see his channel getting some recognition, especially from one of your stature!
Ah yes, a flying artillery with the speed of 100 that has 100 armor, bronze shield, and block missiles from all directions.
Legend you can use the trollhammer copter's bombs against cavalry, monstruous infantry and unique entities? Because her bombs are special and it say that are very good against large enemies.
Thanks for the video
That AI, fly back and forth, don't attack or anything...brutal.
I would have thrown in a couple gyrobombers for good measure XD you can get those recruited pretty early with the adventure as well but I think he was trying to keep it all copter. The bomber's missile is pretty good at taking out large units like chariots as well. For dealing with the endless horde that spawns for this landmark quest this army is certainly top tier at this stage of the campaign.
All magic users are wazzoks (c) Now it's way more often to hear than ever
Now they are now viable to build nice
@LegendofTotalWar that is the new legenday grudge event armies, you capture the setlement and star a new landmark building, while it is being build multiple armies spawn to atack the setlement
Trollhammer Gyrocopters are godlike. Aving one or two agaisnt chaos dwarf is a must. Only problem is that a grudge settler unit so you can only get one every 10 turn if you really min-max your grudges because you dont get troll hamre gyro if you dont reach the 100%+.
0:40 "Measure up"!? There will be a reckoning!
Yes! 🔥
so weird to see human heroes with the dwarfs, but it helps with variety enough.
It's only for Malikai that gets Ulrika.
7:57 - Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
The lahmian sisterhood turn up on mass when you build the landmark at silver pinnacle. It's part of the grudges
Those armies are created by building a landmark at the silver pinnacle, it’s part of a legendary grudge.
*Now playing: Fortunate Son*
Malakai Makaisson: "I'm tired Boss"
Genuinely can't decide if i need to do a dwarf run for barges and choppers, or a empire run for legally distinct forbidden workshop
they can change the end game crises spawn range to lower if you want. prob set it to just vampire would be my guess and moved that way knowing he could get a good test from it
I'm starting to notice a pattern between these doomstacks.
it's the quest battle army
Friendly fire definitely was increased. I've noticed artillery being extremely reckless as if they've decided that they consider any and all friendly casualties acceptable if the enemy could be hit.
I would be interested to see how this did against factions with ranges units. My experience with the new gyro copters is that they deal loads of damage but get absolutely shredded very quickly. I had a single volley from a darkshard route a nearly full health gyro which was a bit alarming.
Keep in mind Malikai gets missile resist and block chance for Gyros. So his are far more durable than others.
I've been using mass gyros in my current playthrough. 2 things I noticed. I hate brimstone guns, the range is too low, and ammo is too few. They always seem to take the most casualties because they are the closest to the enemies.
2nd is the trollhammer grudgesettler variant can not be used in the same conteol group as the 2 regular varients. Otherwise, the drop bomb ability isn't usable.
Otherwise, I didn't really doom stack per se. I did about 10 gyros, and then the rest were heroes and ranged/artilery ground forces per army. There are some things that gyros just are bad against. Rot flies were the single worst thing I fought early game, and it actually made me switch up my armies to have ranged ground forces. Prior to that battle, I was using like 15 gyros and all heroes. Dragons and other flying single entities are also difficult but are easy enough to micro against. By far, the worst thing I fought against though were Skaven Jezails. If they manage to fire a volley, you lose at least 3 models minimum. You can't just charge in either because warlocks have howling warpgale. And if you aren't careful, and you end up in the range of a ratling gun while being unable to move, kiss that unit goodbye.
Otherwise, the new gyros have been performing amazingly and have been very fun to use for like the other 95% of the game. Also, Gyro bombers are really fun to use now as well.
those are the undead that spawn from the the silver something when the dwarfs try and seal that tomb or something
There is a landmark in 'Silver Pinacle' that spawns an army of vampire stacks....
Need to put this doomstack to Haterecopter by Metalocalypse.
THere is an adventure involving the Gyrobombers and one task is to fight two vampire armies, AFAIK these are the two, 'cause I wiped the Sisterhood of the map already.
The grudge settler gyrocopters are overtuned and I absolutely love them, by far the strongest settler unit.
Shockingly I had more fun and ease of play using gyro doom/crapstacks malakai than I did with slayer armies. Tier 2 gyro spam is bloody insane. Theyre just good period now.
The link to Costin's channel in the description doesn't work.
Helikopter helikopteeeer...
What if you would combine barges with these trollhammer torpedos? You said barges are weak against single entity flyers... could be a win
I just commented on this too lol. Trollhammers could perfect the stack. I don’t know what would be a proper ratio of barges to troll hammers but I have a feeling that it probably doesn’t matter 😂
Some Dwarves are born made to wave the flag
7:25 *Skaven chittering intensifies*
Hey legend, could the troll hammer torpedos perfect the thunder barge stack? You said single entity flyers are their only weakness and as we’ve seen the troll hammers excel at it.
Curses trees were a bummer
All i got from this xpac is that everything is OP and broken af
They come in 12s? Did CA see the Gelt Vietnam memes and decide to play along?
Did they increase the gyrocopter unit size from warhammer 2?
Trollhammer? Makes me wanna listen to Finntroll...
Do gyros suffer from unit tangle like other raned units?
I don't understand how they're getting only an 8/10 for convenience to recruit when thunderbarges got a 10/10 (or even 12/10) ? Do you only look at the convenience (ie how quickly you can recruit them/ how fast do they get so efficient) or is it a ratio between the strength of the army and its convenience to recruit ?
Getting such a strong army by turn 40 is worth more than a 8/10 imo, but you could argue that it's taking a lot of heroes for a single army
In terms of cost, i'd say it's a really nice option as well, and the fact that they're a low entity count per unit also makes replenishing easier with the post battle loot option
the gyrocopters were my only means of chasing down routing enemies whenever i played the dwarfs but they were lacking in many aspects to really field a lot of them without making my dwarf army weaker, is this a superior version in everyway?
Play some Creedence Clearwater Revival and its basically a Vietnam war movie.
I never give Ulrika any skill point into magic line because in lore, she has no magical abilites ever.
If this battle shows one thing, it's how damn bad the AI is!
"It obviously won't compare to the thunderbarge." Why would you even consider comparing it to the thunderbarge?
My girlfriend asked me "are you watching your livestreams" and I said no, and she said "how dare he not spend his life streaming for you?" and it reminded me of the old days when Legend was forcing himself to stream all the time.
She was mostly saying it just for puns tho
Free bird.mp4
I wonder, if the increase in numbers of all Gyrocopter units came after they decided on the damage for the Trollhammer variant and they didn't adjust it. Because it is absurd how much damage a single salvo deals.
Troll hammer torpedo ground units do the same amount of damage but with a tiny range and many weaknesses, it's likely they didn't care too much about balance as every new Dwarf unit is a doomstack and completely overpowered, or its just a temporary thing to boost sales and they'll nerf them all later.
I'm assuming Ulrika is just tied to Malakai for being available on the campaign as i never saw the pop up during my belegar playthrough?
I mean if it's mounted on an helicopter it's no torpedo, it's an unguided rocked
In Warhammer a torpedo can be whatever the writer want it to be, plus these aren't helicopters but gyrocopters so real life terminology shouldn't apply here.
Ease of Recruit is definitely where it suffers... to get 3 Trollhammer Torpedo gyrocopters by turn 40, he has to have gotten 3 out of 4 of his ages of reckoning at 75% which, with the way the grudges needed expand and the pitiful grudge payouts, is next to impossible. You can get one really easily, and two with a small bit of luck, but 3 out of 4 is just... not going to happen. You're going to run out of big grudge targets after the second one, while also needing like 19,000-ish grudges by the time you wheel over to Silver Pinnacle.
That said, about the exp... I don't think that's that impossible. Malakai's airship "horde buildings" can grant something like 350xp+ per turn when upgraded, and he also grants xp per turn, and Gotrek also grants xp per turn.
It's not really that hard honestly if you focus on it.
@@Costin_Gaming I did. One game, I even added up all visible grudges on the map and came up with somewhere around 20% of the grudges I needed for that age of reckoning.
"this will be a long battle" video is 14 minutes
Was that a necromancer on a flying mount? Has that always been a thing? Gregor ghorst near the end of the flying monsters
The Necromancer lords get a flying hellstead mount. Heroes get corpse carts only.
You only get one grudge every 10 turns starting at 11, and this will be slowed to 15 with the new plans
Weirdly, the most annoying thing I found to fight with 'copter stacks is bats and furies. Fast, hard to quickly obliterate, lock you down for monsters.
Also, well done on the player getting three top tier Reckonings by turn 40, impressive work.
Yeah bats and furies are fast, but well 3 engineers make the copters quite fast. Also Malikai and Engineers do obliterate em.
@@Costin_Gaming Good point, I always tucked Malakai away in a corner, luring the fast enemies in so he and the lads could blast them apart is a great idea.
Great job on the stack, btw.
Did they nerf the gryocopter unit numbers back down to 3?
the link to the other guys channel doesnt work!
Gotrek got the most kills. lol