The Best Way To Fit Necks To Bodies!
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- In this video your old Uncle Matt shows y'all how we fit our necks to our Challenger guitar bodies. We have been using this method for years and it is the best possible way go. We angle the necks rather than the pocket and it works every time. This is the same technique we will teach you in our Build A Set Neck Class, check out out...www.texastoastguitars.com/cop...
For everyone who is still hunkered down in the house or just looking for a little bit of infotainment we are doing a lot of extended videos so you can zone out a little bit.
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Original score: Electric Boogie Dawgs
Artwork: Paul Shellooe
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Remember, we are showing you what we do, not how to do it. If you do not possess the necessary skills to perform work at this level, do not attempt to replicate what you see here. If you're going to be dumb, you have to be TOUGH. - Hudba
dude i love watching and listening, ive learned so much from you. ive been building bout year and half now. i love it
Great to hear it my friend
The prep work of making all the fixtures for all the steps before this process and the following steps makes for ease and repeatability for building the final piece whether it is Ford, Fender or Ferrari. Even the most customizable, hand built masterpieces need a great solid platform to start. Another great video for building excellent instrument!
Your videos are always enjoyable Matt. Thanks
Glad you like them Donald
As a recent subscriber and someone who will be attempting to build their first ever Explorer guitar soon, I find what videos of yours I’ve watched so far very informative. Keep up the good work mate!
Cool, thanks Phil
Thanks Matt! I’ve been waiting for this video.
Hope you like it!
Great job. Well done and thanks for sharing it with us.
Thanks for watching!
I don't usually lol when I watch your videos, but when you said "I'm not gonna!" Coffee went up my nose.
HAHAHA thanks brotherman
The jigs you use are cool. And I like your thoughts on the necks fitting all the bodies. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Wallace
Very cool. Thanks Matt, you rock.
You rock!
Hey guys, I've been playing since '87, and tinkering since then too. I just started full builds over the past year, and I learn sooooo much going over your past library. I would love to take your class in the future. (Dad-cation!) Thank you so much! You guys are awesome!
PS: My wife likes misses toast off camera!
Thanks Jerry, my wife says thank you too
Great video as always guys !!
Glad you enjoyed it Terry
Great video guys. The jigs and tools are one thing, but I really like how you have standards for everything. 1" deep neck pockets, 1.5deg angle etc. Makes me realize I really need to do that. Thanks!
We realized that everything was different on every guitar and that seemed like a lot of silly work. We standardized things and it made life a lot easier
I like your guys work.
Very nice video, specially showing how you check for proper neck angle. Congrats.
Glad you liked it!
Dude this video is exactly what I needed for the assembly build I’m doing
Thanks my friend
❤ your videos 👍👍 thanks for sharing your knowledge
Hey Matt love your videos, very educational and bad ass entertaining, 😂
Love that straight edge, I fell in love with it when I was out there. I remember watching you use the pin router for months, thinking how sweet it would be to use one. Then I used yours...and bought my own. Lol.
It's the hot set up right
Yes it is. Wish every aspiring builder had a chance to experience your pin router. It might prevent people from losing interest in continuing their passion.
This is fucking genius. Iv been trying to hunt down ideas for how to do the angle on the neck heel / tenon rather than body pocket / mortice. Everyone else is either doing bullshit with shims or complex neck pocket routing. Your jigs are smarter than others people's. I love your compound radius fretboard jig too.
Thanks Tom
We decided that putting the angle on the necks was considerably easier than on the body. We have done several double neck guitars and having the angles match is really important when they are right next to each other.
Awesome !
Thanks!
Man, I wish I had the space for a pin router! Awesome stuff Matt!
You could make room
Loving the positivity 👍
Always Mark, there is so much to be happy about even if there is a bunch of stuff trying to bring us down
Hi guys. I'm not a luthier. Maybe an intermediate guitar tech, but mostly a guitar player. I just bought a couple of sub $200 T Style guitars. Out of the box I am trying to set them up. With One of them it looks like the rosewood fingerboard is up higher by (without any measurements taken) about 1/16 to 1/8" on one corner than the other corner. One corner seems like it almost sits on the body top, but not the other. I took the neck off once to look at everything in general. Cleaned some very small wood chips out of there and put it back together. I am pretty sure that their fit must have been like it is now before I took it apart and cleaned. I wonder if the manufacturer cut the neck pocket at an angle or if the neck heel is cut at an angle? I do know that after I filed of rough fret ends and cleaned and polished up the frets and set the relief on the neck to get ready for playability, it is not ready to be played.. I found that about 4 or 5 frets back from the end of the fingerboard at the neck joint, the bottom 3 strings (G
this is great and I love the longer tutorials - could you do a session on how to achive this without a pin router - i can't afford a shop like yours!
Maybe, we would have to see what the interest level is
When you start getting so many comments that you can't keep up, it's a very good sign. Success begets success! 🥂
I still like to try and get back to everyone.
@@TexasToastGuitars And it shows. 😃
@@bevo65 Yep, nothing but blue collar class at Texas Toast. I wish I had discovered these guys before I bought my 2016 Gibson SGHP with the stupid giant photon torpedo case that weighs twice much as the guitar.
Cool idea for the neck angle. No need to use a shim. I like it!👍😎🎸🎶
Well... you don't NEED to but it sure makes life easier
@@TexasToastGuitars yep!🙂
The index pins and templates are genius. Would love to work that way.
You can do it Pedro
@@TexasToastGuitars No tools, no materials :(
Will have to wait until I can afford a course or something.
@@pedroreyes4670
Learning by doing, not saying a course won't help but it will help more if you fixed up a few beaters. To experiment, take a look at the instruments that get thrown away and see what you can do with them.
So smart!
Thanks so much amigo
I love that pin router. I will have to get one some day.
You dig it the most baby!
Great information, as always!
What are your thoughts on neck-through design? Perhaps a future video on that?
We don't do many neck through guitars but I like the idea of a video
The way I do my neck pocket with a hand router, Make a template with 3/8" thick Acrylic.
Route with a 1/4" top bearing bit. I've only done set neck with long tenon with 2.5 degree
angle on the neck for a tune a matic bridge. Your pin router is freaking awesome though!
Sounds great!
That's a nice technique, I'll have to think about how to do something similar without a pin router!
There are lots of ways you can do this without a pin router. The neck pocket is super easy
You are so considerate, making Jesse's clean up job easier! :) :)
It's great you gave him a nice feature spot to do his reveal the other day, he did a fantastic job.
One question: did you always use a neck angle on the Challengers, or (as I suspect) it was a later development?
Ol' Jesse is a good hand. We matched the neck angle to the Challenger a while ago
I betcha Fender and Gibson are watching these videos too. Great moustache by the way
I don't think they even know I'm alive
@@TexasToastGuitars you better believe they do ...
Have you ever thought about extending the neck way back into the body and getting rid of the heel / protruding joint at all ? Especially on those single cut bodys it would make so much sense, considering 24 fret necks are quite normal these days. I've seen it on 80s bolt on PRS guitars and with the ultimate execution on the Yamaha 1200 superstrats or teles. Bolt in instead of bolt on.
See also Dan Armstrong... and yes I have thought about it.
We are happy to do this kind of thing for customers
You could save the neck band saw cut offs and use/sell them as neck shims for repairs and resets
I could indeed, we used to save every little scrap of wood but there is so much of it now that we have to throw it out. There is a guy who heats his house with our scrap wood
Awesome instructional! And btw, your mustache does nothing for me, but I'm sure, there's a machinist in your area that would like it. 🤣🤣🤣
Incidentally, if I have to refit a Fender style neck to a body , I use a 1.5 angle when recutting the neck pocket by hand and then use the rifle action bedding technique to fit the neck ( use sellotape and wax polish to mask the neck and screws , glue a shim at the back of the pocket [ a bit of maths helps here ] , check level of neck with DGI , and epoxy resin kevlar flock bedding compound and screw the neck into position recheck with DGI and allow to set ) , so that when the neck is removed from the pocket sellotape removed etc., the neck screws back into position with the most accurate joint that could possibly be created ( - 0.001" for the thickness of the sellotape)and the tilt of the neck removes the 3 miles of saddle height adjustment screw after setting up the guitar. The result ? Sustain as good or better than any set neck guitar and no nasty lumps out of the playing hand from the saddle screws . I do this on every bolt on neck from a £45 KCC to any Fender etc that needs the neck fitting properly and of course target rifles that need an action bedding job to shoot accurately . The principles are exactly the same in both for different reasons and in both cases to do with harmonic response of neck and body and barrel and action . As far as I know , no one else fits or refused a bolt on neck like this , but if you want to understand the method look up bedding rifle actions as apart from angling the neck , the process is the same . Use slow set epoxy until you get the hang of it , then you can use the fast set types. The resin compound is tougher than the wood itself and wax the attachment screws well .
Do you do the nut too?
That is where bedding compound really shines
@@TexasToastGuitars Unless asked for Tusq Graphtec or original bone ( I always ask about bone because of a lot of guitarist can be vegans or simply dislike the idea )I make a brass nut from flat stock profile and cut it , file to height and naturally bed it the same way whether it be a cambered or flat based nut . You can buy both 3mm and 1/8" thick flat for metric and inch strat types pretty readily . The benefit of brass and bedding in this way is absolutely stunning. Brass is also self lubing and if the string grooves are nicely finished , which is pretty easy to do as you only need 50-60% of the string diameter to stop it riding out , it aids the older Strat trees to return to tune much better .
Is there a formula to determine neck pocket depth and neck angle for any bridge choice? Great Mustache.
Thank you for this video!
It seems like masking tape is the solution for a good fitting neck.
I got a question:
How thick should the neck pocket be for it to stay stable?
It looks like you're leaving around half inch but maybe it is possible to go even lower?
We use tape to shim things on tools all the time HAHAHA
The Fender neck pocket is 5/8 it seems plenty stable I don't think you need to be overly deep but our design is such that we wanted the heel to look a certain way
Besides the other stuff... I like your mustache, too! 😁
HAHAHA thanks 😅
Very funny. Great content as always. Do you guys have a Patreon?
Awesome Matt! I needed this info. Is there a schematic listing neck angle and height based on types of bridges? I plan to make three guitars all three with different bridges. Hard tail, vintage strat tremolo, and a Floyd Rose. Thank you for any advice you may have but, thank you guys for all your videos.
I'm sure there is somewhere...
We normally use .5 for Fender bridges and .625 to .750 for Gibson stuff
@@TexasToastGuitars I was just going to ask this , thanks so much
Can you please explain how to measure the needed pocket hole depth, needed neck heel thickness and needed angle. ? I understand everything about guitar building except this to start working on my first project. What references do you use to fit it perfectly?
work smarter ... not harder ... great video !!!
You got that right!
Excellent video as always , Matt !! My question is ... Is 1.5° the perfect angle for doing Gibson style stop tail bridges ? I've always been leary of trying a stop tail bridge because of fear of getting the angle wrong .
It is a combination of using the angle and the amount the neck sticks out of the body, height of the pickups etc. It all has to work together.
Gibson's, LPs specifically are all over the place between 2 and 4 degrees. That's why the TOM can end up so high on some and not on others. But remember they have carved tops with the fretboards right down on the top of the guitar. Generally the carve will determine how much angel you need but if you had a Fender with the board at the top of the guitar you need also need an angle.
@Texas Toast Guitars. If you have to route something very exact with your method, check out the foil tapes from 3M. A few years ago we needed a steady increase of thickness on a wind tunnel model of a material that won't compress/deform under pressure. The tape you use will do that a bit so this might give you the extra fine tuning if you ever need it.
Necks fit just snug enough. The amount of too tight neck pockets out there is too damn high, well done.
Good to know on the 3m, they make great stuff for sure. I used to be the worst offender of too tight neck joints
@@TexasToastGuitars
I think most people believe it at first, it's like everyone hits you over the head with it. "Look how tight it is, I can lift it, can't put paper/feeler gauge between it." A few moments latör: Why is my paint job cracked?
EDIT: Holy shit I really wrote "very exact"...cheesus qwist. If you see Dan again, maybe you can go to desert brutality together. Would be so cool to see you go through a course.
chap stick never dries out and is a very good lubricant in nut slots and on screw threads
and in a handy tube
Cool shirt!
Thanks that came from Andy the Saint
I have a 2cm neck blank and a 3cm body blank. Can i build a set neck guitar?
Hey bud I'm doing a Tele style body right now out of knotty pine what angle should I rout the neck pocket at and how deep should the neck pocket be? I'm probably gonna just get me a neck from Warmoth unless you will sell me a cool neck? Oh and can I do this all by hand I actually want my first to be by hand no machines?
Matt you need to get sponsored by a tool supplier. Since i stated watching your videos a couple years ago i noticed that my shop is starting to look alot like yours from the pin router to the bandsaw and your ridgid jointer (dont have the spiral cutter yet) and just bought the string thru jig on your recomendation .
Maybe one day!
I live in the same town as the corporate headquarters of Grizzly (the owner is said to be a guitar nerd) and have often thought about approaching them with the idea of sponsoring you guys, but I don't think they'd listen to a shmoe off the street like me...
@@hurdygurdyguy1 Lets do it man
@@TexasToastGuitars crap... why did I say anything?! Now I gotta actually DO something.... well, let's see what happens (I'm not on, like, a time limit, right?!)
@@TexasToastGuitars Here's what the founder and president, Shiraz Bilolia does... (It's been awhile since I've been to the Grizzly showroom but they used to have a wall displaying the guitar, ukulele and mandolin kits...plus you could buy tuners bridges nuts etc there) ... www.grizzly.com/the-presidents-guitars
Are you a pilot also? 🤔😉Pitch and yaw 🙂 ...this presentation was part of one of my questions for coming Q&A series 🙏🏼
I hope you still tune in for the Thursday show
Do you use a center-line type method to index the neck to make sure it's square on the angle jig? Or just eyeball it? Also....beloved pin router needs a beloved dust shoe ;D
The pin router has a dust collection thingy it just doesn't work that well. See the angle of the bit changes often in relation to the piece, almost 360 degrees on even something like the neck pocket.
Just curious- why do you do a series of smaller cuts on the pin router, rather than just 1 deeper cut at the right depth?
The rule I follow for speeds and feeds is about half the diameter of the drill bit for the maximum cut.
Told wife I want a Pin router for Christmas ! She told me she wants a pool boy! Hey we ain't even got a pool !!
"Tough to be a man baby!"
Paul Rodriguez
Cool video. It's probably negligible but doesn't putting the angle on the neck make it sit slightly crooked in the neck pocket?
All of that part gets cut out when I do the pickup cavities
You make it look easy, but how many hours went into those fixtures? Takes some smarts to come up with that stuff. Congrats on the 2020 GGBO.
Thanks Fred, we had to do a little work for sure
Mustache is awesome!!
Thanks man
I'm just surprised that Mrs.Toast hasn't buzzed that stache off in your sleep yet, haha.
She hates chores
Thanks again Matt! Dumb question, is this neck angle unique to your Challenger guitars? I have two strats and a tele kit guitar, I have not noticed an angle, I’ll have to measure it somehow, looks really cool and complicated lol, thanks again for impairing your wisdom Matt!
The bridge on Fender guitars is quite a bit thinner. The Challenger was designed to work with a Gibson TOM style bridge.
Texas Toast Guitars ahhh thanks that makes sense, thank you.
I mustache you a question, don't you leave like a little overhang for the fretboard, to hide the joint? Cause then the bridge location moves as well and so on
If you look at the heel end of the neck, the fretboard and neck both have nearly an extra inch beyond the last fret. This then gets routed away as part of the neck pickup cavity, making for a clean and nearly invisible neck joint.
You are jumping ahead a video
@@TexasToastGuitars haha okay)
Sick mustache 😊
Hey Matt…. If I'm using a .125 Hipshot string-thru hardtail bridge is it necessary to angle the neck…. I have put together a few bolt-on neck guitars using this bridge and a standard Strat pocket which is .720 deep but with no angle…. If I want to glue in rather than bolt, do I have to angle the neck ??? or can I just substitute glue for screws ????
You don't really NEED to angle the neck or the pocket but you will need to figure out what height the strings have to be to work with that bridge. You can adjust the neck depth, as you have done already and sort it out that way. I think that if your neck pocket is done properly you should be able to interchange glue for screws and back again. I used to use Fender style necks and glue them in all the time.
@@TexasToastGuitars .. Thanks Matt
Your neck pocket jig is awesome 👍
But I still not understand about your angel jig. Cause I see you route the angel much far than the neck pocket.
Please explain me how you fix it 😅
Fix it?
cool shirt.
Thanks Nigel
Is angling the pocket/neck necessary on strat/tele guitars?
I don't think so but others do
Question at 11:50 right when you say "alright!!!" Lol. Once your neck is good to go and fits properly, then you take a lot of wood off the back and get ready to shape or profile the back? At that moment in the video it looks like a lot of space between the neck pocket and where the back of the neck starts... hard to explain... but I assume all that goes away anyway, correct?
I assure you there is not a lot of space between the back of the neck and the end of the neck pocket
@@TexasToastGuitars I'm positive that I didn't explain what I see correctly...I think it's just the extra wood that gets shaved off... since that neck is still rough... not shaped or profiled or whatever. Lol. I didn't mean the end of the neck that's in the pocket. Lol. Doesn't matter... good video anyway as I was one previously asking about neck angle. Cheers
Still flummoxed how to do the angle on a hand router. Maybe I'll get there
There are lots of ways you can do it
Check this from Tamar (3x3 custom) at 6:57 czcams.com/video/GLbwX-JOJl4/video.html
hi Matt, is there a reason you angle the neck rather than neck pocket as 1 process I have seen is luthiers using a hand plane on the body to create the break angle and then obviously the router follows that angle, just curious
I have found that it is easier and more consistent, for me, to do it the way I demonstrate in the video. Of course the tools that I have are not necessarily the same as everyone else has. I developed the process we use after many years. You should make plans to attend our set neck guitar class and I'll show you in greater detail why this technique works so well. Check it out...www.texastoastguitars.com/copy-of-build-a-guitar-class
@@TexasToastGuitars oh man I wish I could believe me, I'm in Australia and that cost to travel and the course on top, just not possible at the moment, I have a hard time travelling with my disability as well dude, you really create some great content here and I love the channel man.
I would rather have my neck parallel to the body, no angle in the heel, if you want the strings higher just make the heel thicker, intonation thing, as soon as you angle the string they are taking a longer path to the bridge, I guess if you compensate for this somehow it works? but I do prefer top mounted bridges, but with the strings parallel to the body . . . the way your doing it you could just do it traditional then if you want to angle your neck so the strings rise to the bridge you could use a wedge shim.. that way the guitar can still be setup low and parallel to the body for those who prefer the traditional style set up?
Could you just give the dimensions of the neck jig ?
Sorry my brother but you will have to design your own
Why do you angle the neck heel as opposed to the pocket?
It is easier
For us guys with a router table, while it may be a bit on the pricey side, mobile solutions has a really cool tool I've been eyeballin' for awhile. It may be the trick for some of the angle work you do with your aluminium taper jig on the pin router. A video of it is here on youtube at czcams.com/video/T042QNTq0G0/video.html
You just wanted to say 'Yaw', isn't that right Matt? [his response] "Hell _ _ _!"
I say so many silly things HAHAHA
@@TexasToastGuitars supposed to answer "Hell YAW" lol - love your stuff bud
It looks like your geometry results in the string plane being quite high above the body. I'm wondering if that might be a little uncomfortable to play.
You could always come and play one and let me know
@@TexasToastGuitars I'll pop right over. See you in about 24 hours ;-) Oh wait I can't cos' of covid.
I mention it because this is one of the things that Leo Fender did. The Tele and Strat have the string plane 10mm at the neck and 12mm at the bridge above the body. On my G&L Legacy USA its 13 to 14mm. It's a beautifully made guitar which I have never really bonded with and I think that's partly because of the little bit of extra string height above the body. This isn't just because of the way I have the G&L set up, the neck pocket is shallower than a Strat and the fret board surface is 10mm above the body (on a Strat it's 7mm). I think he did this to accommodate the height of the parallel floating vibrato bridge.
@@ResoBridge Please remember that our bridge is the same height as a Tune-O-Matic... therefore the angle needs to be what it is.
Instead of using wooden dowels for locating pins, use stainless steel dowel pins from mcmaster.com--super precise, and quite inexpensive.
Those work great until you hit them with a high speed cutter... ask me how I know HAHAHA
Wait! Wait! When you put the neck in the neck angle jig you didn't say "Clamp it, Jed"! Seriously (rim shot), that neck angle jig is cool. I never thought about doing that. I've never had a neck angle problem with either bolt on or glue in solid body guitars - only acoustics with dove tail neck joints.
Talk about a missed opportunity HAHAHA
Please explain why the angle at all‽‽‽‽‽‽?
Well... with no angle the neck would have to stick out of the guitar quite a bit to work with the bridge I will be using. Since that would suck the angle is the really hot set-up
Si eres tan inteligente, constrúyelo tu mismo, es lo que yo hago!!!😁😁😁
"IF.... you don'y have a pin router..."
Sadly, i imagine few of us do!
You can still do it with a little ingenuity
@@TexasToastGuitars Yep. I realise. Was being mildly ironic! We are all envious of "the Beloved Pin Router"!!!!
Texas Toast Guitars and beer... we can get beer!!!
Chris’ beard is so manly it has its own 5 o’clock shadow... by 9am.
Even Chuck Norris is jealous!!!
So does his collection of western shirts
Must. Buy. Pin router.... ;)
It's a game changer
Now I am going to waste an hour drooling over pin routers on machine tool web sites, before reminding my self that I don't have room for one. :(
Nice mustache!
Thanks HAHAHA
That pin router is looking sexier and sexier.
You dig it the most baby!
Damn 1 away from 666 likes!!!!!