How we Beat the Schengen Shuffle - Sailing Helios S01E12
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2023
- As a live-aboard sailor in the Mediterranean managing Schengen time is a major headache and with Croatia having joined the Schengen zone in 2023 the options are becoming limited to sit out Schengen every three months.
We were planning to use some bilateral visa waiver agreements to get an extra 90 days in Italy on top of our 90 days of Schengen travel but instead ended up with a solution that is even better.
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martina@medyachtservices.com
Martina is the Customs and Formalities Manager in Sanremo
In March 2024 we created an update to this video where we detail our experience from our first year sailing the Ned as crew on our own boat: • How we beat the Scheng...
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This is by far the most helpful information found anywhere for long term cruisers! We've been concerned about this for a couple of years and I will definitely share with anyone who is in the same situation.
Great, so glad you found it useful. Please let us know how you go with it.
Since you posted this, have you been able to travel un hindered through the EU or have you found any challenges we should be aware of. @@sailinghelios2023
Thank you so much for this information!!!!
You are welcome. We can’t guarantee that it will work for you as it seems there is a lot of variation in application but we couldn’t just sit on this and not share it either.
Well researched and presented, thanks.
Thank you
Extremely helpful. It’s put my mind at rest about buying a boat somewhere in Europe and spending time aboard in the Mediterranean. The 90 day rule was a showstopper for me.
You’re welcome. We were feeling the same way. Once Croatia joined Schengen it really made it quite difficult and potentially dangerous as people make decisions based on Schengen rather than good seamanship.
This is fascinating
Thanks for sharing
You are welcome. Glad it was helpful.
I had heard about this but the detail you have provided is very helpful.
Thanks Ross, glad you found it helpful
well done guys
Thank you
Thank you for the information. We are just about to sailing into the Med and your video is definitely going to help us navigate the Schengen. Hopefully we will meet somewhere this winter and we can share an anchorage.
You are welcome. I hope you can do something similar during your time in the med
Thanks so much for making this. I plan to retire in 20 months and want to buy a boat in the Med. and sail for 3 or 4 years. I was looking into residency as I will have enough monthly income and assets to get it easily but the more I dug you needed a physical address of where you were going to live, so that posed an issue.But I had not thought of the VAT issue if you are a resident. At times I got frustrated and told my GF well maybe we can just sail in the Caribbean instead, she was having none of that idea. As a an Airline person I'm very familiar with the different immigration rules for crew so this does make sense to me. I think the land restriction is doable for me too. I just wish there was a visa for boaters who are no longer working and can prove they have the financial means to not burden European society in any way. Thanks again!
Great to hear about your plans. If you buy a boat in the Med if may already have VAT paid on it so you might be ok with that. I think as long as you don't take out of the EU for some time and then it will keep the VAT paid status, but please check carefully. In 2024 the EU is going to introduce an online systems for Visas and Visa waivers. I am not sure how this is going to affect the process that we have used but at least there should be some level of consistency across the EU around some of the process as I am sure it will also include exclusions and the ability for individual countries to implement their own variations. This just seems to be the fun of sailing in the med
I had Portuguese residency and my boat at Albufeira was accepted as a permenant address. That might have changed since Brexit. There were other complications such as having to surrender my UK driving licence and not being able to drive a UK registered car in Portugal.
Thanks for this information! We are following in your footsteps from Melbourne and collecting our new Beneteau yacht from a dealer in Athens next month. Currently going through the customs and AMSA registration so sympathise with what you went through earlier in the year! Hopefully see you in Greece next season when we will be navigating the Schengen Shuffle!
Congratulations on your new boat. I am glad that customs and AMSA is behind us though I have to say that AMSA were very helpful even though their process is a bit painful. We will look forward to see you in Greece next season.
We are right around the corner in Gibraltar, ready to enter the Med tomorrow... THANK YOU for making this video!!
You are welcome. It certaily is a releif to not have to manage the Schengen time
Thanks for your reply
.
Thanks for this
I’m from the uk and looking to semi retire in the eu for 6 months then home work a bit and back again on my boat
Thanks again you’ll have helped so many of us
You are welcome. Sounds like you have a good plan to n place.
I'm in a similar situation, UK flagged boat in the EU. Problem is I would have to go through the agent malarky after every time I flew home which would be several times a year. Maybe it's something you could learn to do yourself with practice, certainly worth looking into.
I really hope this works for UK residents. Top info thank you.
You are welcome, I hope it works for you.
I would think this has to work or Brits as the UK opted to be 'a third country' and so I would expect the rules for Aus/NZ/US/UK and some other territories will all be the same. But it's a case of 'I think' as opposed to I 100% know 🙂
Thank you for making this video really helpful! We’ve been wondering what to do also. We have to get our boat hauled out for some repairs but our days are nearly up, we were going to go to Albania but after lots of research the country seems to have no boat yards or marinas with these services! Not sure what our next move will be 🤔
Sounds like you guys are in a tough position. If you are going to go down this route just make sure you can stay onboard during the repairs. The logistical challenges of the Med are about as complex as the weather
Túnez es un país mejor de lo que la gente piensa y la isla de Djerba es un lugar extraordinario y los astilleros ara hacer mantenimiento e hibernar son muy profesionales y económicos.
We agree! We loved our time in Tunisia and will certainly return 💕
Thanks for this really informative video and well done getting around the complexity of the visa rules. The ship agent route is the ONLY way to get through to the border officials. We fell foul of NOT getting stamped out of France, resulting in no stamp IN to Italy. Basically they weren't bothered though and when we left the boat in ITALY over winter, got stamped out of Schengen area. we had a 6 month LONG STAY TOURIST visa for France - which seemed to satisfy everyone at the border of Italy?! Fair Winds to you both.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it. It is certainly a game of logistics sailing the med
Hi guys. Great video and very useful, thank you!
My boat is in southern Spain at the moment and owing to brexit my partner and I have to split our time between the UK and there. I was thinking about heading to Montenegro in the spring but you've definitely made me think! Where are you heading to to reset your vat/import clock? I'm currently looking at Gibraltar but it's a long boring sail from where we are but needs doing this year.
Thanks, we are heading to Tunisia for winter so that will reset the VAT clock for us. Because our boat is new we still have some upgrades we want to complete and Tunisia seems the best place to do these
One country you missed is Cyprus . North is a de-facto independent country and South is not yet in Schengen .Also there is Gibraltar ...
Thank you, you are correct. Thankfully it not a problem we have to consider any longer and we can choose destinations based on good navigation and the weather
I was thinking 'EU equals EU', but I see from www.gov.uk/travel-to-eu-schengen-area that:
*Travelling to EU countries that are not in the Schengen area*
Bulgaria, Cyprus and Romania are not in the Schengen area. You can stay up to 90 days in a 180-day period in each of these countries without a visa.
Any time you spend in the Schengen area does not affect the number of days you can spend in these countries.
And so it seems there are separate 90 day counters for each 'territory', and Schengen = a single territory, hence time in any one spot all going toward the 90 days, but southern Cyprus, while EU, has a separate counter. Less for today! I wonder if northern (Turkish) Cyprus uses a different counter to mainland Turkey? Probably yes. And do you understand the rules for Gib? I'd seen something suggesting the clock still ticks when you're in Gib, despite it being a British dependency and no longer in the EU, along with the UK
Great info and really appreciate the connection. Does this type of visa just restrict you to Italian waters or can you travel throughout European waters.
It allows you to travel through all EU waters but this is not a visa, there is nothing stamped in your passport. In effect you are not checked into the EU just transiting its waters on your boat.
Thanks for the great video. Could you please tell me if this worked for you in other countries besides Italy? Did any officials there ever give you trouble? Last I saw, it looked like you were in Malta. We are in a marina in Montenegro right now and trying to find out way out of the "shuffle" for the next year. Thanks!
Hi Karen, we sailed through France, Italy and Malta this year with no problems. In fact Malta seems to be the place where this can be just about guaranteed. I spoke with someone yesterday who entered the EU via Malta and were not checked in even though they asked. When they went to Italy and Greece afterwards they also would not check them in because they had arrived via another EU state.
Hi there. First, great video. It's the first one I have seen giving another option for sailing couples. I know you might not or can not answer this but I will ask anyhow.
If, you where checked into a marina say in France for a period of time and you DID leave thd boat for a period of time to visit say a friend WHO would know of authority that you are off the boat.
Keep up the videos we love them.
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Hi, glad you enjoyed the video. Officially you should disembark your vessel and get stamped into Schengen and do the reverse when you return. Would anyone know if you didn’t? Highly unlikely. However, if you were found out I not sure what the consequences would be but at minimum it would be a fine. Authorities are most likely to find out if you are involved in an incident of some kind. It’s not something that we would do.
Hi and thanks for the video. We are currently wintering in Montenegro because of schengen. Does this mean that when we head back into the EU to Croatia or Greece we do not go to customs and get our passport stamped? We just show our crew/passenger list and other documents to the port police? When you leave Tunisia, how will you be managing entering back into the EU? Would you always use an agent? Thanks Sue and Steve, Aussies on SV Bonnie Doon
Hi Sue and Steve. From our current understanding this allowance comes from an IMO agreement from 1965 and thus some of the newer EU countries might not accept this. I am not sure you could initiate this in Croatia but you can in Greece. In Greece I would use an agent as the Greek authorities can be variable in their understanding. When you head into the EU you need to make sure you present yourself to authorities as required by that state. Each seems to be slightly different. Some of these by default are unlikely to stamp your passport because they understand this process. From Tunisia we will enter the EU via Malta. Because Malta is small you can just about guarantee consistency of application of this process.
Really interesting video thanks.
So as I live in the UK I guess we can sail to France and Spain and not check in as we are living on our boat and in transit.
I would say that you need “check in” but not get your passport stamped. You still need to register the arrival of your vessel in the zone for the 18 month VAT period.
Thank you very much for the video. Very useful. May I ask if what you described (not disembarking the boat) is valid for staying in a marina say in Sicily? Could we winter in a marina in Italy without checking in the Schengen ? Kind regards
I think so as long as you sleep on the boat. If you wanted to go away from the boat for a few days you would need to disembark and check into the EU
Thank you and happy new year.
Would love an update on this if you are approached by coastguard in Italy or when you change countries
Is this an indefinite solution as long as you don’t stay on land ?
Will do. It is our understanding that this has no time limit however there is always a limit on the boat and we will need this out of the EU before the 18 month limit. We plan to winter outside the EU so there is no problem with this.
This is a really helpful video and explains why when I went from U.K. to France a couple of years ago the French customs/immigration were only interested in stamping the passports of the guests and not the husband and wife crew who entered and left France on the boat whereas the crew changed during their France cruise. Thanks. Have you addressed the VAT issue? My understanding is that after 18 months in EU you need to pay VAT on your boat unless you exit EU to break the 18 months period. Any ideas how to deal with this? Cheers
Thank you, we are glad you found it helful. It seems these rules are communicated broadly but are understood by the authorities. VAT is a much simpler problem to solve as you just need to be out of the EU for a day every 18 months. There are several places in the Med where you can do this, such as Gabrator, Tunisia, Morocco, Motenegro, Albania and Turkey.
Thank you for this. We are considering sailing from US and this was a big concern. Do you think this works for US citizens or may be specific for certain countries?
I think this would be ok for US citizens. I would start by contacting an agent and seeking their advice
600 € well spent, great outcome.
We think so. It certainly makes the logistics simpler
Hi Richard, Jude, thanks so much for sharing your journey and experience so far. We are a kiwi couple cruising on a cat in Croatia, we also checked in with Sofia in Preveza and got her to stamp us out, she was great and everything very straight forward. We were not able to stamp out in Croatia unfortunately, and from here we want to spend another 4 months cruising Italy, France and then heading to Barcelona for the Americas Cup. We are thinking of heading back to Greece to get stamped out again before we go to Italy. I am interested to know how things go in Italy and France once you are stamped out. Can you share anything on this? I would love to chat with you guys on WhatsApp if you are happy to. Thanks, Bill
Hi Bill happy to chat on WhatsApp.
Very interesting piece, I presume it would be the same for a British registered boat?
Should be. It’s more about the crew nationality than the boats flag
Very interesting. Last year, I was able to stop the clock for 60 days, by “checking out” from Spain, and taking my time before “checking in” to Portugal. I understand that even with the work of your Agent, you have not been provided any supporting paperwork as “crew” on your boat. My question is (if you can help answer) is simply to “Check out” from (say) Portugal, and chose the time and location of your “checking in”? One thing I can say with certainty- there is a big variation in each country and who you might be dealing with on the day. Last year, in the Canaries - no problem. This time, in Portugal, Yes can “check out/ stamp out”, but on the understanding that I leave that day and for another non Schengen country. I guess, my question is that on the basis that you, have simply been “checked out” of the EU, as crew without document, can I rely on that mechanism down the road, if needs dictate (staying and living on my boat)? Appreciate your thoughts
Yes, there is a great deal of variation in application of the rules. I would always advise to not try and game the rules. The more we know about this then the more we believe that we are ok and the real issue is the application of the Schengen agreement consistently by all member states. Have a read of this: eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/399/oj especially Annex VI section 3.2.4.
I think the need for documentation comes from the basis of thinking we are doing something that might be wrong. Nobody gives us any documentation when we fly in on a plane either. We have just cleared in at Malta and their procedures align with the document linked above. Regards Richar and Jude
Do you have a link to the crew list form you used? TiA
This is one we have used. www.marinamalta.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/CREW-LIST.docx
Yeahhhh 🤙🤙🤙🤙
My wife (European citizen) and me (European !Resident!) count the shengen days for me. You are not allone with this „stupid 90 days regulation“. Thx lot for this way.
We are happy if the information can help you
Its only 1500 miles from Gibraltar to Turkey. Thats only 10 days sail for most yachts, or 7 days for a quick boat.
That is true but we are trying to see the countries in between as well and this is a legal way to do it as a cruiser
hey there - we're in Greece (Athens) also in a similar situation. We're Australian registered with dual nationality passports (Oz & UK). Would you be able to have a brief conversation about what we do next? many thanks !
Hi, no problem. Send me some contact details to Richard.lozell@gmail.com
Does this affect the VAT exemption on your boat?
Hi, no it doesn't change the VAT rules for our boat so we still have 18 months before we need to leave for a day and then come back
Thanks heaps! That’s very exciting news. One question; what do you say to Immigration officers upon arrival into a Schengen country so you don’t automatically get checked in? With love, Ken
Hi Ken. If you are talling about the first Schengen country you visit then this might depend on their process but in general I would say that you are a boat in transit and here is your crew list. For other sunsequent Schengen countries you don't need to go near immigration and sometimes you don't need to see any officials at all. E.g. when entering Malta you call the port authority on Channel 12 to announce your arrival and they will just where you have come from. If it is another Schegen country they will just ask what nationalities are onboard and welcome you to Malta. Italy you should get your Constituto from the Coast Guard and in France nothing to do. This is where sites like Noonsite are good for this information
@@sailinghelios2023 How utterly wonderful! Thanks heaps. With love, Ken
What happens when you go from one Schengen country to another?
Hi Jamie, each country may have some requirement but if you have come from another Schegen Member state then you do not need to go through any immigration procedures. E.g in Italy you should get a transit log (Constituto) and have it stamped by the Coast Guard at each port you visit. In Greece they have a similar thing but I believe you need to get it stamped evrywhere there are police present, ports, marinas, town quays and even some anchorages. However none of these process deal with immigration as once you have passed the border of the first country then this is done for all of the member states of Schengen. A good resource for these type of requirements is Noonsite.com
Question
Is the boat in your name or a company name?
It’s in our name
Has anything changed since checking out of the EU? Have you had any encounters with authority?
No encouters at all other than getting our Transit log (Consituto) stamped at marinas where we stay.
Ito a helpful information, you can give me the email of the agent in Monaco. Great windsurf and thanks very much
We used Mediterranean Yacht Services in Monaco. Laura looked after us well.
Has anyone proved this to work in other French areas such as Britainy ?
I’m not sure as we haven’t sailed up there. I would hope for consistency but I know better. Has anyone else done this?
@@sailinghelios2023 did it stack up on your other travels within the zone?
We hope to get up that way in a couple of years
@@sailinghelios2023 The whole of the area is a special place, weather permitting which is does more often than many might suggest.
Schengen is a town
Yes, I understand it was where the first countries signed the original agreement. Have you been there?
I can’t help but thinking the eu just have done this to get back at the uk for leaving the eu.
Haha. Couldn’t believe that happened. I could have got UK citizenship through a grandparent too!
We did this to ourselves - as members making the rules and then by leaving in such an unnecessarily self destructive way.
@@sailinghelios2023 An Irish grandparent is the most desirable of commodities right now. Unbelievable idiocy.
As a Brit what I find infuriating is the fact that anyone from the EU can come to the U.K. and stay for 180 days in one year, so unfair. Sir Robin has been campaigning for years to get this changed.
In effect you do have 180 days in a year but I think what you are meaning is up to 180 days in one stay. That would certainly make the whole situation much more manageable.