I would suggest that you look at my other videos because I am a Ford Master Tech I have already covered this and Ford has discontinued that reprogram because it's causing transmission problems
And it does not necessarily take care of the problem they hope that it does but they're not guaranteeing that it does but through the process of putting this program in people's Vehicles they are getting torque converter problem and transmission shudder problems now so Ford has said wait a second there's a problem stop doing the 21b 10 reprogram
Wow, I have been having this issue for about 3-4 months now. I went out to the driveway where my truck had been sitting overnight on a downhill slope and tried your solution. Works like a charm. Thank you very much.
I was advised to do this on cold starts when I purchased my 2014 3.5 F150 new. Currently at 150,000+ miles, never had any rattling on startup. Ford could have made the ecoboost a 350,000 mile motor by adding a prelube pump.
Thank you very much for the video. Not only Fords have this problem, other brands also. There are Hondas that have the same problem, in some cases it is solved by putting the oil of the specifications. Many think that as the car ages, the oil that has to get into it has to be thiker, and that is where the problems begin. It's so important to let the oíl get to the motor very fast, that's why they make it so thin.
Really appreciate the time you've taken to make this video. I'm going to try this first thing in the morning. Just had my oil changed and the initial start up was horrible
I've always wondered why they didn't install a secondary electric primer pump for the oil. When you unlock or open the door, and the fuel pump kicks on, turn on the electric oil primer as well. After a few seconds, or upon starting, the electric pump would shut down and the mechanical pump would take over. The pumps would be isolated from one another by check valves, and use the same regulator for both. Eliminates startup wear and primes phasers.
You were on the money again with this one. I have a '15 SHO that's already had the phasers, chains, chain guide and intake cams replacement in early 2020 for that rattle, not sure why they replaced the intake camshafts but I wasn't arguing because it was warranty work. Even with all the work done on my motor, that rattle is still there for about 2-3 seconds on a cold start, gonna mention based on one of your recent videos that I have a K&N oil filter. My car has been sitting for five days (I work from home) so I gave this a try, took my foot off the gas after about a three count of the engine cranking and voila! No cold start rattle. Great video once again and thank you.
I had a 2009 Jaguar XFS with this same problem on the 4.2L engine. Supposedly the cam gears had seals in them to keep the oil in, and when they failed, it would leak down the oil pressure, and cause that rattle on startup until pressure built up again. I'm not sure if it's related, but Ford owned Jaguar back in the late 00s, so maybe they used their variable timing tech in their own engines, and then ended up with the same problem.
So, Ijust bought a (new to me), 2011 F150 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost a day after I saw this video. The day before I saw it was when I checked out the truck at the used car dealers lot. The Phaser rattle scared the crap out of me not knowing what it was so, I walked away. That night I found this video after googling 'loud rattle on 3.5 ecoboost', here on you tube. Carfax showed that the truck had a timing job and water pump just 19K miles earlier so, I was a little perplexed. I went back the next day and tried the 'crank n prime' trick. DANG, It worked! After explaining to the dealership that I needed to pull the body and the front of the engine off to do a full timing job, I drove it off the lot for only $7,800 ! Got a gorgeous 'Pale Adobe' supercrew dream truck for under 8K cash! Thanks brother, you made my dream come true!
I’m a heavy duty mechanic, most everything we work on has a Pre-Lube system . The external pump is mounted to a starter like motor and can run for well over a minute. Makes good sense here to pre-lube / prime the oil system. Great topic and awareness . Thanks
A remember my uncle had a turbo Mustang from the eighties and he added a pre-luber/post shut down oil circulation pump. When you turned the key to run, the pump would prime the system to 40psi (took about 2-3 seconds til the green light came on) and after shut down it would run for 2 minutes to cool the turbo. I bet that'd do the trick also.
I feel like even for cars that don't have VCT/phasers, a pre-prime of the oil pump can't be bad since most of the wear in engines occurs right on startup
Thank you so much for sharing this information, my 2012 150 3.5 ecoboost has been rattling for about 6 months now, an it has not been that bad at this time, but as you have shown us, im going to try this first thing in the morning 🌄, Thank you again for your video on this problem, have a great an blessed day 🙏.
Thanks , I have that issue and your solution works, the dealer told me it was the oil filter backflow preventer, but since they change the oil and filter, it still rattled if the truck sat for a while. Great tip.
I had to have my timing chain on my 2014 F150 replaced (big money). Now I have this exact problem and Ford said they have no idea how to fix it. You're so smart and I 100% agree with you. Nice work and excellent idea!
Thanks for the video .. I have a Holden (chevy)commodore in Australia rattling on start up. Timing chain just renewed after several $k .. still rattling... your method was perfect.. rattling gone! Your a genius
great video. Consider doing a timing set on your Town Car. Upgrade to the metal tensioners. The gaskets on the rear of the plastic tensioners can blow out and the hydraulic tensioners get weak with heat cycles regardless. Up grade to the metal tensioners as they don't have a gasket and they have an oil squirter that cool and lubes the chains and the metal tensioners have a little ratcheting arm on them that holds the tensioner arms out tight against the chains at all times. It is the loose chains on start up that slap around and bust the chain guides. A slow crank PCM reprogram on the Town Car would help as well, say 2.5 seconds of crank before fuel turned on. Lots of great info. Great video.
@ford boss me Unplugging the variable oil pump defaults the pressure to 72 psi full time. Holding down the gas pedal does work. I've done this for a while now. The ECM variable oil pump cranking time can be increased. I see that table in the tune.
Great content! My wife's 2016 Expedition with 88k miles has the same issue. Changing the oil to 5w40 Delo 400 XSP and changing it every 5k has removed 95% of the rattle. Every so often on very cold days does it happen, but it's extremely infrequent now. I only switched after a lot of research into their additive package and also figured if a diesel with new catalytic systems can go 10k plus, why not my turbo gas motor. My expy has never run better. Delo 400 XSP SAE 5W-40 with ISOSYN Advanced Technology is excellent for use in engines developed to meet 2010 emissions standards and in engines equipped with features like four-valve heads, supercharging, turbocharging, direct injection, shorter piston crowns, higher power density, intercooling, full electronic management of fuel and emissions systems, exhaust gas recirculation, and exhaust particulate filters.
@@mattwagner8965 well, I live in California where the temp hardly ever gets below 50*F so the added viscosity is not an issue. Been running this for 20k miles with nothing but an improvement and no start rattling. Also test my oil samples from black stone and show improved wear So YMMV 🤷🏽♂️
@@RobertMichaelPhotography nothing to do with weather it calls for thinner oil so it goes to the cams faster and lubes up bearing faster I mean if you ain't had a problem and you wanna do that go for it bro but I wouldn't
@@mattwagner8965 5w-40 is same viscosity on start as 5w-20. should oil just fine on start up. not sure about today but diesel oils used to have high zinc content which was banned in gas cars with cats since it ruins catalytic converters
Whoa this is gold! My 94 Land Cruiser had this problem with its big tall 6cyl and as it’s my project vehicle I put a preluber on it which uses an electric agricultural pump. But my Honda S2000 makes a painful zipping sound when I start it after sitting for a month. I’m going to try this!
Thank you for this solution. My 2010 F150 just started the tapping upon start up. I imagine it doesn’t help that it sits all week while I’m at work but this worked fantastically.
Interesting solution, and pretty simple for Ford to implement. I was thinking another option would be an oil reservoir, that has a 1 way valve to fill/pressurize with oil while the engine is running. Then another valve that opens prior to engine start to pre-prime the oil system.
I remember seeing an invention originally for turbos that was basically a spring or gas pressure accumulator that held a quart or so of oil that would feed the turbo's bearings cool oil after shutting the engine off. With a few solenoid valves this could pressurize the oiling system before and after start-up and shut down. Sort of like a bladder tank on a well system.
I'd absolutely love if cars had remote start with a separate electric oil pump that doesn't filter and pre primes the engine before finally firing the engine up after a couple or few seconds. I'd always turn my engine on that way. Not cumbersome at all just to click click when walking towards it.
"Clear flood", I have been doing this to get cars into my bay. Agreed that 150 cranking rpm is way better than 7-800 idle rpm, while building oil pressure.
I changed the oil other day. And used this method it works. Because you can not really Prime the oil filter. This method works all the way round. Thanks keep up the great work.
I agree with everything said here although my rattle sometimes started up to 15 - 25 seconds after the engine was started, at times just after it came off the high idle and when the rattle started it hammered like a 71 series Detroit diesel up to 20 seconds then sometimes "click" and go silent. Not sure if the prime would help although I'll give it a try. We've used primers on other performance vehicles in the past and they make perfect sense of raising the oil pressure prior to starting. My phasers were replaced and the rattle may be back at about 18,389 KM's later. For the record this rattle had nothing to do with the injectors or sloppy clips on the wastegate levers which would be a blessing in comparison.
@@FordBossMe Hopefully will find out soon. The oil was always changed with full synthetic every 5000KM's so contamination shouldn't be an issue. Possibly sticking pins that lock the phasers into position when cold gone. Guessing at this point.
@@FordBossMe thanks I’ve been going out at night to start my truck to keep it from doing this, let it sit about 12 hours when out this morning Crank the engine for about three seconds then took my foot off the gas and no Randle I have a 2014 F150 eco-boost thanks very much progress I was afraid I was I was damaging something by letting it sit too long I appreciate it keep up the good work
Thank you, my 2017 Eco Boost F 150 has been to the dealer many times due to this problem, the Cam Assy rebuilt twice but the problem still exists. . I t sure seemed to me that it was a lubrication problem your explanation helps
Here's some additional information on entering 'flood mode' with a key-start ignition system: there is no need to hold the key in the 'crank' position once the engine begins to turn over. Just fully depress the brake (for safety) and the accelerator pedals, turn the key to get the engine spinning, and take your hand off the key. The engine will continue to spin until your release the accelerator pedal, at which time the engine will start. Not everyone can walk (twist the key), chew gum (depress the accelerator pedal), and scratch their ass (depress the brake pedal) at the same time. Carry on.
I've literally been explaining this for years and I've been one of the only sources if not the only source for a long time I don't need anything else added to my information I've been perfectly 100% explaining it and not a single person has had an issue of not following it
@@FordBossMe Kid, I've been using 'flood mode' after oil changes since the day I bought my '84 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, new. I was merely pointing out that it is not necessary to hold the key in the' start' position once the engine begins to spin. If you knew that, you wouldn't have done it in your video. Relax.
Delaying fuel injection until oil pressure is detected is a common practice for ensuring that the engine is properly lubricated before starting to run. Here are the steps to accomplish this on your Ecoboost 3.5 engine. 1. Locate the Oil Pressure Sensor: Start by locating the oil pressure sensor. It is typically located near the oil filter. The oil pressure sensor sends a signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM) indicating the oil pressure level. 2. Review the Wiring: Review the wiring diagram for your vehicle to understand how the oil pressure sensor is wired. You will need to splice the fuel injection circuit into the oil pressure sensor circuit. The goal is to only enable the fuel injection circuit once the oil pressure sensor indicates that oil pressure has been established. 3. Install a Pressure Switch: Install a pressure switch in the oil pressure line after the oil pressure sensor and before the fuel injection system. The pressure switch should be normally closed (NC) and open when oil pressure is detected. 4. Connect the Wiring: Run a wire from the pressure switch to the fuel injection system. This wire should be connected to the fuel injection circuit so that when the pressure switch is open, the fuel injection circuit is enabled. 5. Test the System: Before starting the engine, test the system by disconnecting the oil pressure sensor wire. The fuel injection circuit should not be enabled because the oil pressure sensor is not detecting oil pressure. Reconnect the oil pressure sensor wire and verify that the system enables fuel injection once oil pressure is detected. It is crucial to ensure that the system is properly installed to prevent damage to the engine. It is also recommended to consult with a professional mechanic or automotive engineer if you are unfamiliar with modifying vehicle systems.
My dads 2018 f150 3.5 does this as well. Does it cause damage if he doesn’t have it looked at or does this startup method? I’ve told him I’ve heard a noise but he doesn’t hear it
@@kyleyoung7341 Take it to the dealer and have them replace it. They issued a recall for it and they even pro rate the replacement of them if you're out of warranty. It will gradually get worse and eventually start having a constant knocking after the engine is fully warmed up. It will also start having issues where you'll press the throttle down and the truck will just fall flat on its face for a second or two. Get it fixed before it gets any more miles on it! I had my 19 F-150 done in March. It only had 32k Miles on it and was getting progressively worse.
Thank you - thank you!!! my 2018 f150 EB finally started to get that noise regularly now. This past weekend in Vegas was a loud one that startled me. I thought my truck was broken and I needed to stay a few more days 😉 ! I was skeptic to bring the truck in for 21B10, as I didn't think it will solve 100%. Will give this procedure a try and report back.
I have a 2019 F-150 3.5 ecoboost. Is started rattling at startup at 9000 miles. The repairs were completed at 12,300. I mean that’s when I took it in. My point is Ford has had this cam phaser problem going on for years. Every time the engineers came out with a new c/p it didn’t last. The service writer told me mine were replaced with the 3rd generation cam phasers. I can’t imagine the amount of money Ford spent trying to fix this, and you come up with a simple way to deal with the issue. Way to go man!
I get the feeling master techs such as yourself could design phasers that would last as long as the motor itself. The other observation I have is phasers come into play at high RPM. Most people never exceed 4,000 rpm especially with automatics having many close ratio gears. Ford should delete phasers. HP rating would suffer but motor would be bullet proof like the 2V 4.6.
Just wondered, I’m taking my 2018 Ford F-150 in next week to have the cam phasers replaced. Judging by the 3 page parts list it’s quite an extensive job. My question is after the truck is fixed would it be a good idea to used the gas pedal to the floor method on start ups after the fix to prevent it from happening again?
@@jaygallegos7728 did you ever find a answer to this question? I have a 2018 eco that rattled on cold start with 40k under power train I’m setting a appointment
I experimented with this for a whole month and posted a video of my findings on my '18 with 27K miles. In this video your total cranking time was about 11 seconds. Yesterday I managed to hear no rattle at all after cranking for a total of about 8 seconds, but I did it in 3 crank sessions for about 3 seconds each. To be sure I didn't hear anything I filmed from the outside, not inside. Will this excessive cranking cause premature starter wear? And what happens if owners decide not to fix this? Will the rattle eventually lead to other things that will destroy the engine?
I wouldn't worry about starter longevity. Starters are made much better than the 80-90's. and Todays cars get running faster with less cranking than back then.
worthy considerations. The starter is going to be working at 4-6X more than usual, as most start ups are nearly instantaneous in normal circumstances. And I had always been under the impression that cold start up rattle was a function of bled off timing chain tensioners, not the phaser assembly. This is what I have learned about the 5.4 triton. If the tensioners are leaking that has been claimed to lead to oil starvation in the heads along with the cold start up rattle. So oil priming may well lead to elimination of the rattle, but is there unheard, unseen damage going on due to oil starvation? Seems that based on what I have learned form other CZcams posts this rattle is an indication of component failure, any solution like this priming is just putting off the inevitable and perhaps allowing some serious engine damage.
Thank you man ! I knew it !! I'm a mechanic . and I knew this would happend one day on my 2011 it only has 130 nice kilometers . I been giving it bit of key ro build preassure too . but in getting worse . and replacing the chain is crazy work and it shouldnt happen so soon at 120 k started . no codes . is all good that is the problem no pressure and only one tensioner on the old models . yes ford should put a new mapping on this 3.5 eco . at least fix one problem of the many that has . in very surprised ford screw up so bad . for the sake of a bit of power and fuel economy . no enough time testing . yes ford help your customers .
Ive been doing this on my 13 eco with 225k for the last year now, doing the long crank for the first cold start of the day with good results. IMO though, if Ford programmed the ecu to long crank after 8 hours for example, people would complain that the vehicle isn't starting, or its "going to wear out the starter" they would need some kind of secondary electric oil pump to prime the same way the fuel pump primes as soon as the key is turned on then delay start for n seconds after key on.
Interesting Rich. Makes perfect sense. I would love to see close up pictures of those eco boost cast iron tensioners. I bought some billet aluminum ratcheting chain tensioners from mmr to try out on one of my modulars.
Literally just solved my problem that was debating on going back to a Tacoma about lol. My truck sounded nasty after sitting for a few days, did this truck and it’s brand new again 😎
Gonna show this one to my mechanic. Currently driving a 2012 3.5 that's going to need a second timing job. You might have just saved me $3,800 bucks. Thanks!
Man I had one due the same thing and took it Ford several times it did this since day 3 of ownership brand new truck drove it off the lot with 55 miles they changed the flywheel and all Kinds of stuff eventually traded the truck for a GMC
I just caught on this problem with my 2018 F150 90k on to odo. We don’t always get a lot of cold weather here in TX but I’m definitely going to give it a try
My understanding is that direct injection engines tend to have fuel dilution problems, oil change intervals are stretched and the chains wear, past the point of the tensioners ability to deal with the wear.
Ive always done this ever since ive been wrenching , over 32 yrs now, always disable starting somehow whether its pulling coil wire or smacking the inertial shutoff switch in the older ford vehicles, then cranking for several seconds, it has never caused me any grief yet, quite the contrary...a few extra seconds every few months pays dividends over the life of the vehicle by keeping it on the road instead of in the shop or worse....
Just purchased a 2013 ford f150 xlt and noticed this a couple days after I purchased it. I’m trying this in the morning on a cold start. Hope it works! But you have a subscriber out of me!
Thanks for the video, I have a 2019 Lariat Coyote 5.0 that “clatters” or rattles between 5th and 6th gear IF I don’t let it warm up for several minutes prior to driving. It also has that oil consumption issue ... very annoying.
Awesome video. I have figured the same thing out. I have never replaced a cam phaser and I have owned a few 3 valves. The 3.5 I own now is at 235,000 miles and still running fine. I do use additive’s on mine and I use the combination in everything. 1oz per quart of oil of Lucas stabilizer and the same ration of hotshots stiction eliminator.
Great observation hopefully they implement it. I have a 2013 f150 limited and now just start doing that if sits for more than two days!👍🏾💯🔥. I thought about doing it but was concerned flooding the system with gas . I have another issue with the service trac and hill descendant only when is cold weather under 50 degrees. Whats the suggestion?
I had the idea a while ago to add a secondary electric oil pump that would kick on to build initial pressure quickly when the key comes on, then switch off to allow the mechanical pump to take over when cranking.
i think that all the manufacturers should think that way i have a town and country that has a lifter rattle for the first few seconds after startup and i have done that procedure before and never gave it a thought i will now thanks boss
thank you so much for the video, it helped me a lot sound it doesn't make that noise in the morning. it couldn't report because I took it to Ford and they charge me $6000 to fix it. ford should make a recalll because to many cars have that same problem.
When I have my truck fixed what is the likely hood it will happen again? What do I need to use product wise to help prevent it from happening again? Another question sorry. I’ve had this oil leak on the drivers side valve cover as well. One dealership told me it’s the PCV valve and they replaced it for 100 bucks. I’ve sense learned the actual valve is on the opposite side. Is there another place oil is leaking or is the valve cover cracked? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you for your videos and sharing your knowledge about vehicles!
Hey I just came across your video (new subscriber) tryed this on my truck and want to say thank you so much. It works Awsome, I have a 2018 f150 3.5L ecoboost.
I have a 2019 F150 3.5 eco-boost and this has been a problem most of the time I've had this truck. Ford has already replaced the cams once and of course it's been back at it for a while now. But, I can't afford to fix it on my dollar right now. Ford actually just gave me an estimate of about $4500 to fix it again. I'm going to try this the next time I let it sit for a while. Great info
So this should work stop the noise on Startup but it doesn't mean that it has fixed any problems, Ford went through three generations of cam phasers before they got a generation that would work long term and a lot of people got the second generation instead of the Third and now the third generation is out
Luv it! I believe it’s a pressure drop and that means the phasers and top end are “dry”. An accumulator setup would be equally helpful and I wonder if something like Lucas oil stabilizer would help keep more oil in the top end? I’ve never used it and my 14 limited F-150 has 232000+ kms and has only had amsoil signature series oil since new and as of now doesn’t rattle but when I do key start it moving forward I will do the preprime procedure for sure!
Actually what the problem is, is the phasers have a pin that is supposed to lock into the camshaft and eventually it quits lock so on start up because there's no oil pressure there starts rattling and by free spinning it up you're getting oil in there and it buffers that rattle
Thanks for the tip. I started doing this on my F150. Hopefully it’ll help save my phasers. Question, I also have a 2020 mustang GT. It’s a 6speed manual. How do I do it on that? Hold down the clutch and gas pedal? Thanks
Lucas oil treatment newer engine formula is for variable timing engines. Helps on cold start for. Jeep high horsepower 4 litre used to have an extended crank time to get oil pressure first. Was strange feeling but worked well.
Ford has a Field Action number 21B10 already takes care of this.
I would suggest that you look at my other videos because I am a Ford Master Tech I have already covered this and Ford has discontinued that reprogram because it's causing transmission problems
Please check out my other videos on this so you don't make the same mistake
czcams.com/video/8pTQsYUcKHg/video.html
And it does not necessarily take care of the problem they hope that it does but they're not guaranteeing that it does but through the process of putting this program in people's Vehicles they are getting torque converter problem and transmission shudder problems now so Ford has said wait a second there's a problem stop doing the 21b 10 reprogram
@@FordBossMe If it's already been done, can update 21B10 just be reversed. I asked dealer. No response yet.
Thanks very much for the video! I don't mind the extended crank at all. Much better than the dry start!
Wow, I have been having this issue for about 3-4 months now. I went out to the driveway where my truck had been sitting overnight on a downhill slope and tried your solution. Works like a charm. Thank you very much.
I read this on a forum and tried this a while back but was scared the extended crank was ruining something else...
But you've blessed it! Thanks man.
just don't overdue it, I did it to long honestly I should have started it a second or 2 sooner
I was advised to do this on cold starts when I purchased my 2014 3.5 F150 new. Currently at 150,000+ miles, never had any rattling on startup. Ford could have made the ecoboost a 350,000 mile motor by adding a prelube pump.
Thank you very much for the video. Not only Fords have this problem, other brands also. There are Hondas that have the same problem, in some cases it is solved by putting the oil of the specifications. Many think that as the car ages, the oil that has to get into it has to be thiker, and that is where the problems begin. It's so important to let the oíl get to the motor very fast, that's why they make it so thin.
Really appreciate the time you've taken to make this video. I'm going to try this first thing in the morning. Just had my oil changed and the initial start up was horrible
try lucas heavy duty oil stabilizer the next time you change your oil put some some in it’s for dry starts should also help with the rattle
Holy shit, this works on my Silverado! I’ve always hated how quick it starts, this priming trick is amazing! Thanks
I've always wondered why they didn't install a secondary electric primer pump for the oil. When you unlock or open the door, and the fuel pump kicks on, turn on the electric oil primer as well. After a few seconds, or upon starting, the electric pump would shut down and the mechanical pump would take over. The pumps would be isolated from one another by check valves, and use the same regulator for both. Eliminates startup wear and primes phasers.
You were on the money again with this one. I have a '15 SHO that's already had the phasers, chains, chain guide and intake cams replacement in early 2020 for that rattle, not sure why they replaced the intake camshafts but I wasn't arguing because it was warranty work. Even with all the work done on my motor, that rattle is still there for about 2-3 seconds on a cold start, gonna mention based on one of your recent videos that I have a K&N oil filter. My car has been sitting for five days (I work from home) so I gave this a try, took my foot off the gas after about a three count of the engine cranking and voila! No cold start rattle. Great video once again and thank you.
I had a 2009 Jaguar XFS with this same problem on the 4.2L engine. Supposedly the cam gears had seals in them to keep the oil in, and when they failed, it would leak down the oil pressure, and cause that rattle on startup until pressure built up again. I'm not sure if it's related, but Ford owned Jaguar back in the late 00s, so maybe they used their variable timing tech in their own engines, and then ended up with the same problem.
So, Ijust bought a (new to me), 2011 F150 Supercrew 3.5 Ecoboost a day after I saw this video. The day before I saw it was when I checked out the truck at the used car dealers lot. The Phaser rattle scared the crap out of me not knowing what it was so, I walked away. That night I found this video after googling 'loud rattle on 3.5 ecoboost', here on you tube. Carfax showed that the truck had a timing job and water pump just 19K miles earlier so, I was a little perplexed. I went back the next day and tried the 'crank n prime' trick. DANG, It worked! After explaining to the dealership that I needed to pull the body and the front of the engine off to do a full timing job, I drove it off the lot for only $7,800 ! Got a gorgeous 'Pale Adobe' supercrew dream truck for under 8K cash! Thanks brother, you made my dream come true!
That's absolutely amazing
Thank you!!! I don't know how too far gone my engine is, but I'm going to try it out! CHEERS!!
Thanks, I always wondered why my 2.7EB would rattle and stammer on a start up after it's sat for a couple days. Can't wait to give this a try!
I’m a heavy duty mechanic, most everything we work on has a Pre-Lube system . The external pump is mounted to a starter like motor and can run for well over a minute. Makes good sense here to pre-lube / prime the oil system.
Great topic and awareness . Thanks
Thank You Brother
A remember my uncle had a turbo Mustang from the eighties and he added a pre-luber/post shut down oil circulation pump.
When you turned the key to run, the pump would prime the system to 40psi (took about 2-3 seconds til the green light came on) and after shut down it would run for 2 minutes to cool the turbo. I bet that'd do the trick also.
I feel like even for cars that don't have VCT/phasers, a pre-prime of the oil pump can't be bad since most of the wear in engines occurs right on startup
Thank you so much for sharing this information, my 2012 150 3.5 ecoboost has been rattling for about 6 months now, an it has not been that bad at this time, but as you have shown us, im going to try this first thing in the morning 🌄,
Thank you again for your video on this problem,
have a great an blessed day 🙏.
Thanks , I have that issue and your solution works, the dealer told me it was the oil filter backflow preventer, but since they change the oil and filter, it still rattled if the truck sat for a while. Great tip.
Thank You
I had to have my timing chain on my 2014 F150 replaced (big money). Now I have this exact problem and Ford said they have no idea how to fix it. You're so smart and I 100% agree with you. Nice work and excellent idea!
What made you realize your timing chain was bad? My ecoboost is doing the cold start rattle but that’s it. Still drives great. Not sure what to do.
I spent about $3,000 due to timing chain stretching, but now about 3 years later the same rattle is starting to come back.
I just tried this on my 05 Mustang with the 3V 4.6 with 152k miles. Used to have start-up chain rattle and now, it's GONE. Thank you!
Yvw
Do you do this every time you start your car now?
@@kyleyoung7341 Just after it sits overnight. When I go shopping, or let the car sit for more than a couple hours, yes, I do this again.
Thanks for the video .. I have a Holden (chevy)commodore in Australia rattling on start up. Timing chain just renewed after several $k .. still rattling... your method was perfect.. rattling gone! Your a genius
great video. Consider doing a timing set on your Town Car. Upgrade to the metal tensioners. The gaskets on the rear of the plastic tensioners can blow out and the hydraulic tensioners get weak with heat cycles regardless. Up grade to the metal tensioners as they don't have a gasket and they have an oil squirter that cool and lubes the chains and the metal tensioners have a little ratcheting arm on them that holds the tensioner arms out tight against the chains at all times. It is the loose chains on start up that slap around and bust the chain guides. A slow crank PCM reprogram on the Town Car would help as well, say 2.5 seconds of crank before fuel turned on. Lots of great info. Great video.
I heard they have an all-metal set but I don't know what the part number is for it yet I haven't looked it up
Melling BT402 and BT403. Apparently the metal tensioners from the 4.6 2V fit up to 5.4 3v at least and solve that whole issue.
@ford boss me Unplugging the variable oil pump defaults the pressure to 72 psi full time.
Holding down the gas pedal does work. I've done this for a while now.
The ECM variable oil pump cranking time can be increased. I see that table in the tune.
Great content! My wife's 2016 Expedition with 88k miles has the same issue. Changing the oil to 5w40 Delo 400 XSP and changing it every 5k has removed 95% of the rattle. Every so often on very cold days does it happen, but it's extremely infrequent now. I only switched after a lot of research into their additive package and also figured if a diesel with new catalytic systems can go 10k plus, why not my turbo gas motor. My expy has never run better.
Delo 400 XSP SAE 5W-40 with ISOSYN Advanced Technology is excellent for use in engines developed to meet 2010 emissions standards and in engines equipped with features like four-valve heads, supercharging, turbocharging, direct injection, shorter piston crowns, higher power density, intercooling, full electronic management of fuel and emissions systems, exhaust gas recirculation, and exhaust particulate filters.
Putting thinker oil in a motor that call for a thinner oil is horrible for your motor fyi
@@mattwagner8965 well, I live in California where the temp hardly ever gets below 50*F so the added viscosity is not an issue. Been running this for 20k miles with nothing but an improvement and no start rattling. Also test my oil samples from black stone and show improved wear So YMMV 🤷🏽♂️
@@RobertMichaelPhotography nothing to do with weather it calls for thinner oil so it goes to the cams faster and lubes up bearing faster I mean if you ain't had a problem and you wanna do that go for it bro but I wouldn't
@@mattwagner8965 5w-40 is same viscosity on start as 5w-20. should oil just fine on start up. not sure about today but diesel oils used to have high zinc content which was banned in gas cars with cats since it ruins catalytic converters
Whoa this is gold! My 94 Land Cruiser had this problem with its big tall 6cyl and as it’s my project vehicle I put a preluber on it which uses an electric agricultural pump. But my Honda S2000 makes a painful zipping sound when I start it after sitting for a month. I’m going to try this!
Thank you for this solution. My 2010 F150 just started the tapping upon start up. I imagine it doesn’t help that it sits all week while I’m at work but this worked fantastically.
Interesting solution, and pretty simple for Ford to implement. I was thinking another option would be an oil reservoir, that has a 1 way valve to fill/pressurize with oil while the engine is running. Then another valve that opens prior to engine start to pre-prime the oil system.
I had considered building my own pre-oiling system, but this knowledge is gold! Thanks for showing us how ;-)
Yvw
I remember seeing an invention originally for turbos that was basically a spring or gas pressure accumulator that held a quart or so of oil that would feed the turbo's bearings cool oil after shutting the engine off. With a few solenoid valves this could pressurize the oiling system before and after start-up and shut down. Sort of like a bladder tank on a well system.
Subscribing to your channel because of how informative and helpful this is. Thanks brother! Keep the food content coming.
Test drove an edge with the 4 cylinder Ecoboost and it did that when it was first started. Glad I heard that
I'd absolutely love if cars had remote start with a separate electric oil pump that doesn't filter and pre primes the engine before finally firing the engine up after a couple or few seconds. I'd always turn my engine on that way. Not cumbersome at all just to click click when walking towards it.
That kind of brings up a good point, I wonder how many people are unaware of this problem because their first start of the day is remote.
"Clear flood", I have been doing this to get cars into my bay. Agreed that 150 cranking rpm is way better than 7-800 idle rpm, while building oil pressure.
many times an initial start will see rpms of 1300 and gradually drop to 7-800 so 150 for 6 seconds is much better id think
I changed the oil other day. And used this method it works. Because you can not really Prime the oil filter. This method works all the way round. Thanks keep up the great work.
Tyvm
My wife has an F 150 with this engine..THANK YOU!
Mike
I agree with everything said here although my rattle sometimes started up to 15 - 25 seconds after the engine was started, at times just after it came off the high idle and when the rattle started it hammered like a 71 series Detroit diesel up to 20 seconds then sometimes "click" and go silent.
Not sure if the prime would help although I'll give it a try. We've used primers on other performance vehicles in the past and they make perfect sense of raising the oil pressure prior to starting. My phasers were replaced and the rattle may be back at about 18,389 KM's later. For the record this rattle had nothing to do with the injectors or sloppy clips on the wastegate levers which would be a blessing in comparison.
It sounds like you have something serious going on like really worn out
@@FordBossMe Hopefully will find out soon. The oil was always changed with full synthetic every 5000KM's so contamination shouldn't be an issue. Possibly sticking pins that lock the phasers into position when cold gone. Guessing at this point.
That makes more sense than anything honestly
Great idea! Having oil pressure is good . Thanks didnt know I could do this.
yes sir indeed
Flood mode
I did specify that's what this was in the video
@@FordBossMe thanks I’ve been going out at night to start my truck to keep it from doing this, let it sit about 12 hours when out this morning Crank the engine for about three seconds then took my foot off the gas and no Randle I have a 2014 F150 eco-boost thanks very much progress I was afraid I was I was damaging something by letting it sit too long I appreciate it keep up the good work
Worked on my 2013 F150 with 150k miles!!! Thanks for sharing the tip!
Thank you, my 2017 Eco Boost F 150 has been to the dealer many times due to this problem, the Cam Assy rebuilt twice but the problem still exists. . I t sure seemed to me that it was a lubrication problem your explanation helps
You earned a sub out of me real fast with this one man. Thank you!
Tyvm
Here's some additional information on entering 'flood mode' with a key-start ignition system: there is no need to hold the key in the 'crank' position once the engine begins to turn over. Just fully depress the brake (for safety) and the accelerator pedals, turn the key to get the engine spinning, and take your hand off the key. The engine will continue to spin until your release the accelerator pedal, at which time the engine will start. Not everyone can walk (twist the key), chew gum (depress the accelerator pedal), and scratch their ass (depress the brake pedal) at the same time. Carry on.
It doesn't matter it's either or there's no reason to add anything more to it
I've literally been explaining this for years and I've been one of the only sources if not the only source for a long time I don't need anything else added to my information I've been perfectly 100% explaining it and not a single person has had an issue of not following it
@@FordBossMe Kid, I've been using 'flood mode' after oil changes since the day I bought my '84 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, new. I was merely pointing out that it is not necessary to hold the key in the' start' position once the engine begins to spin. If you knew that, you wouldn't have done it in your video. Relax.
I totally agree, what about more check valves to have the oil ready at the top of the engine. Thanks and blessings.
Followed instructions and no rattle for now on my 2014 ecoboost . Thanks
Literally just started on my 14 FX4 never had it during summer in AZ
Delaying fuel injection until oil pressure is detected is a common practice for ensuring that the engine is properly lubricated before starting to run. Here are the steps to accomplish this on your Ecoboost 3.5 engine.
1. Locate the Oil Pressure Sensor: Start by locating the oil pressure sensor. It is typically located near the oil filter. The oil pressure sensor sends a signal to the Engine Control Module (ECM) indicating the oil pressure level.
2. Review the Wiring: Review the wiring diagram for your vehicle to understand how the oil pressure sensor is wired. You will need to splice the fuel injection circuit into the oil pressure sensor circuit. The goal is to only enable the fuel injection circuit once the oil pressure sensor indicates that oil pressure has been established.
3. Install a Pressure Switch: Install a pressure switch in the oil pressure line after the oil pressure sensor and before the fuel injection system. The pressure switch should be normally closed (NC) and open when oil pressure is detected.
4. Connect the Wiring: Run a wire from the pressure switch to the fuel injection system. This wire should be connected to the fuel injection circuit so that when the pressure switch is open, the fuel injection circuit is enabled.
5. Test the System: Before starting the engine, test the system by disconnecting the oil pressure sensor wire. The fuel injection circuit should not be enabled because the oil pressure sensor is not detecting oil pressure. Reconnect the oil pressure sensor wire and verify that the system enables fuel injection once oil pressure is detected.
It is crucial to ensure that the system is properly installed to prevent damage to the engine. It is also recommended to consult with a professional mechanic or automotive engineer if you are unfamiliar with modifying vehicle systems.
My 2019 f150 3.5 liter rattled this am on a cold start. Thanks for the tip, I will be doing that every cold start from now on, hope it works!
My dads 2018 f150 3.5 does this as well. Does it cause damage if he doesn’t have it looked at or does this startup method? I’ve told him I’ve heard a noise but he doesn’t hear it
@@kyleyoung7341 Take it to the dealer and have them replace it. They issued a recall for it and they even pro rate the replacement of them if you're out of warranty.
It will gradually get worse and eventually start having a constant knocking after the engine is fully warmed up. It will also start having issues where you'll press the throttle down and the truck will just fall flat on its face for a second or two. Get it fixed before it gets any more miles on it!
I had my 19 F-150 done in March. It only had 32k Miles on it and was getting progressively worse.
@@hondaracerfrd1 thanks Sam, that’s very helpful info. I’ll relay that to my Dad.
Thank you - thank you!!! my 2018 f150 EB finally started to get that noise regularly now. This past weekend in Vegas was a loud one that startled me. I thought my truck was broken and I needed to stay a few more days 😉 ! I was skeptic to bring the truck in for 21B10, as I didn't think it will solve 100%. Will give this procedure a try and report back.
This procedure doesn't fix the problem it only makes it easier on syrup you still have to go along the procedures have it fixed
I have a 2019 F-150 3.5 ecoboost. Is started rattling at startup at 9000 miles. The repairs were completed at 12,300. I mean that’s when I took it in. My point is Ford has had this cam phaser problem going on for years. Every time the engineers came out with a new c/p it didn’t last. The service writer told me mine were replaced with the 3rd generation cam phasers. I can’t imagine the amount of money Ford spent trying to fix this, and you come up with a simple way to deal with the issue. Way to go man!
The issue that I came up with here is just a temporary fix it doesn't really fix it you know it just makes the rattle go away
I get the feeling master techs such as yourself could design phasers that would last as long as the motor itself. The other observation I have is phasers come into play at high RPM. Most people never exceed 4,000 rpm especially with automatics having many close ratio gears. Ford should delete phasers. HP rating would suffer but motor would be bullet proof like the 2V 4.6.
Just wondered, I’m taking my 2018 Ford F-150 in next week to have the cam phasers replaced. Judging by the 3 page parts list it’s quite an extensive job. My question is after the truck is fixed would it be a good idea to used the gas pedal to the floor method on start ups after the fix to prevent it from happening again?
Great question, I'd love to hear or see the reply on your question
👍👌,
Was yours covered by the powertrain warranty ?
@@jaygallegos7728 did you ever find a answer to this question? I have a 2018 eco that rattled on cold start with 40k under power train I’m setting a appointment
@@jeromed3904 yes everything was covered
@@jaygallegos7728 any issues after ? Did they put a new cam ?
I just tried it and it worked on my F150 Ecoboost!
I have this issue with my 3.5 this is so helpful. Thank you!!!
My solution. I set my phasers to “Stun”.
Did you do that with forscan? If so how?
Could we get more information on this?
😂 awesome. Guys definitely did phaser locks, 'set to stun' on 5.4L. reduced fuel economy but 100% reduced phaser issues.
I laughed out loud
😂😅
I experimented with this for a whole month and posted a video of my findings on my '18 with 27K miles. In this video your total cranking time was about 11 seconds. Yesterday I managed to hear no rattle at all after cranking for a total of about 8 seconds, but I did it in 3 crank sessions for about 3 seconds each. To be sure I didn't hear anything I filmed from the outside, not inside. Will this excessive cranking cause premature starter wear? And what happens if owners decide not to fix this? Will the rattle eventually lead to other things that will destroy the engine?
I wouldn't worry about starter longevity. Starters are made much better than the 80-90's. and Todays cars get running faster with less cranking than back then.
worthy considerations. The starter is going to be working at 4-6X more than usual, as most start ups are nearly instantaneous in normal circumstances. And I had always been under the impression that cold start up rattle was a function of bled off timing chain tensioners, not the phaser assembly. This is what I have learned about the 5.4 triton. If the tensioners are leaking that has been claimed to lead to oil starvation in the heads along with the cold start up rattle. So oil priming may well lead to elimination of the rattle, but is there unheard, unseen damage going on due to oil starvation? Seems that based on what I have learned form other CZcams posts this rattle is an indication of component failure, any solution like this priming is just putting off the inevitable and perhaps allowing some serious engine damage.
Fords start and stop at lights stupid bs auto stop is the worst
Thank you man ! I knew it !! I'm a mechanic . and I knew this would happend one day on my 2011 it only has 130 nice kilometers . I been giving it bit of key ro build preassure too . but in getting worse . and replacing the chain is crazy work and it shouldnt happen so soon at 120 k started . no codes . is all good that is the problem no pressure and only one tensioner on the old models . yes ford should put a new mapping on this 3.5 eco . at least fix one problem of the many that has . in very surprised ford screw up so bad . for the sake of a bit of power and fuel economy . no enough time testing . yes ford help your customers .
Dude this is totally save my truck tried your check this morning works perfectly thank you so much
It'll help but doesn't fix it
This could work, except then customers would complain about the extended crank. Complainers gonna complain.
Does the 5-6 second extended crank cause any harm or issues to these motors?
@@cockatiels31 I would imagine more stress on the starter and plate
Up in the air if it would cause more starter damage with extended cranks.
Soooo happy i found your channel, it seems to work perfectly, keep up the good work, thanks
Mind you this is to start up easier but this is not a fixed 2 the problem
Ive been doing this on my 13 eco with 225k for the last year now, doing the long crank for the first cold start of the day with good results. IMO though, if Ford programmed the ecu to long crank after 8 hours for example, people would complain that the vehicle isn't starting, or its "going to wear out the starter" they would need some kind of secondary electric oil pump to prime the same way the fuel pump primes as soon as the key is turned on then delay start for n seconds after key on.
I’m always surprised when they don’t rattle. Great find!
Thanks for the info 👍 a million blessings for you 🙏...
Totally worked! Nicely done! Just saved me thousands! You're the man.
Now this is just to get it to be quiet it doesn't mean it's fixed though
Interesting Rich. Makes perfect sense. I would love to see close up pictures of those eco boost cast iron tensioners. I bought some billet aluminum ratcheting chain tensioners from mmr to try out on one of my modulars.
will indeed take pics
@@JaceJackson yeah you could be right but I figured I would give them a chance. I’m a sucker for shiny stuff too
Reflash pcm sounds like another Ford band aid fix that be causing more dead batteries and starter replacements😂
Hey Rich, nice tip for people. This is the kind of thing that we remain loyal to you. You're a great guy, bud.
I appreciate that!
I've been doing this to my 2011 f150 ecoboost since watching your video, it works. Thanks
I started having this issue. Primed it after watching you vid….WORKED,,,,👋🏻
Literally just solved my problem that was debating on going back to a Tacoma about lol. My truck sounded nasty after sitting for a few days, did this truck and it’s brand new again 😎
Gonna show this one to my mechanic. Currently driving a 2012 3.5 that's going to need a second timing job. You might have just saved me $3,800 bucks. Thanks!
Did it?
Just tryed it on my pickup and thank you works great
My F150 makes exact noise you’re talking about going to try your method to see how it works thanks for this video
You are very welcome
Man I had one due the same thing and took it Ford several times it did this since day 3 of ownership brand new truck drove it off the lot with 55 miles they changed the flywheel and all
Kinds of stuff eventually traded the truck for a GMC
Amazing
Your channel is really cool very informative! Thanks for all the info I just subscribed!
Tyvm
My brother that was a huge help thank you very much!
Thank you for this video buddy 100 percent on point!!
I just tried this trick my 2012 F150 with a 3.5 eco-boost. it had the 3 to 5 second rattle , And it worked. Thanks!
It's jot a fix but it does help
I just caught on this problem with my 2018 F150 90k on to odo. We don’t always get a lot of cold weather here in TX but I’m definitely going to give it a try
My understanding is that direct injection engines tend to have fuel dilution problems, oil change intervals are stretched and the chains wear, past the point of the tensioners ability to deal with the wear.
Ive always done this ever since ive been wrenching , over 32 yrs now, always disable starting somehow whether its pulling coil wire or smacking the inertial shutoff switch in the older ford vehicles, then cranking for several seconds, it has never caused me any grief yet, quite the contrary...a few extra seconds every few months pays dividends over the life of the vehicle by keeping it on the road instead of in the shop or worse....
Just purchased a 2013 ford f150 xlt and noticed this a couple days after I purchased it. I’m trying this in the morning on a cold start. Hope it works! But you have a subscriber out of me!
If this works what you'll need to do is you'll have to have the cam phasers and timing Chains replaced is what it means in the future
Thank you sir! Every single one is getting this treatment after it's ford scheduled meeting with me
I tried it and it worked! Awesome thank you for this video!
Thanks for the video, I have a 2019 Lariat Coyote 5.0 that “clatters” or rattles between 5th and 6th gear IF I don’t let it warm up for several minutes prior to driving. It also has that oil consumption issue ... very annoying.
Awesome video. I have figured the same thing out. I have never replaced a cam phaser and I have owned a few 3 valves. The 3.5 I own now is at 235,000 miles and still running fine. I do use additive’s on mine and I use the combination in everything. 1oz per quart of oil of Lucas stabilizer and the same ration of hotshots stiction eliminator.
Great observation hopefully they implement it.
I have a 2013 f150 limited and now just start doing that if sits for more than two days!👍🏾💯🔥. I thought about doing it but was concerned flooding the system with gas .
I have another issue with the service trac and hill descendant only when is cold weather under 50 degrees. Whats the suggestion?
@Ford Boss Me
Thank you bro!🙏🏼
My car has bad knocking when starting after sitting overnight. Im going to try this first thing in the morning.
I had the idea a while ago to add a secondary electric oil pump that would kick on to build initial pressure quickly when the key comes on, then switch off to allow the mechanical pump to take over when cranking.
beautiful idea
i think that all the manufacturers should think that way i have a town and country that has a lifter rattle for the first few seconds after startup and i have done that procedure before and never gave it a thought i will now thanks boss
Good idea but the phasers would still clatter on really bad ones when cranking before firing. Also people would be complaining about a long crank
thank you so much for the video, it helped me a lot sound it doesn't make that noise in the morning. it couldn't report because I took it to Ford and they charge me $6000 to fix it. ford should make a recalll because to many cars have that same problem.
When I have my truck fixed what is the likely hood it will happen again? What do I need to use product wise to help prevent it from happening again? Another question sorry. I’ve had this oil leak on the drivers side valve cover as well. One dealership told me it’s the PCV valve and they replaced it for 100 bucks. I’ve sense learned the actual valve is on the opposite side. Is there another place oil is leaking or is the valve cover cracked? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you for your videos and sharing your knowledge about vehicles!
Worked on a 2005 4.6 L as well. Great tech tip
Tyvm
Thanks a million for the info !!! i've been thinking my motor was in trouble
Hey I just came across your video (new subscriber) tryed this on my truck and want to say thank you so much. It works Awsome, I have a 2018 f150 3.5L ecoboost.
Just understand this helps make things not get worse but it does not fix any problems
YOU SIR, ARE FK'N AMAZING, I learned more on your channel about vehicle stuff than any other channel I've ever watched, KUDO'S BROTHER & THANK YOU.
Tyvm
I have a 2019 F150 3.5 eco-boost and this has been a problem most of the time I've had this truck. Ford has already replaced the cams once and of course it's been back at it for a while now. But, I can't afford to fix it on my dollar right now. Ford actually just gave me an estimate of about $4500 to fix it again. I'm going to try this the next time I let it sit for a while. Great info
So this should work stop the noise on Startup but it doesn't mean that it has fixed any problems, Ford went through three generations of cam phasers before they got a generation that would work long term and a lot of people got the second generation instead of the Third and now the third generation is out
Luv it! I believe it’s a pressure drop and that means the phasers and top end are “dry”. An accumulator setup would be equally helpful and I wonder if something like Lucas oil stabilizer would help keep more oil in the top end? I’ve never used it and my 14 limited F-150 has 232000+ kms and has only had amsoil signature series oil since new and as of now doesn’t rattle but when I do key start it moving forward I will do the preprime procedure for sure!
Actually what the problem is, is the phasers have a pin that is supposed to lock into the camshaft and eventually it quits lock so on start up because there's no oil pressure there starts rattling and by free spinning it up you're getting oil in there and it buffers that rattle
@@FordBossMe I wondered how it was supposed to work. Some kind of electronic check valve to hold oil in the phasers when not running
My 2011 f150 had the phasers replaced and now they are rattling again now I am gonna try this!!!
I thought my 2018 3.5 ecoboost has this issue. Thank you i should of watched the sooner thank you!
Another way to prelude a engine is to use a oil accumulator that stores pressurized oil in a cylinder that is released during a start-up cycle.
Why not have the ECU software crank until oil pressure is detected or a maximum timeout? Crank for up to 30 seconds or until oil pressure is detected?
Thanks for the tip. I started doing this on my F150. Hopefully it’ll help save my phasers.
Question, I also have a 2020 mustang GT. It’s a 6speed manual. How do I do it on that? Hold down the clutch and gas pedal? Thanks
Don't start it in gear, put it in neutral and you won't have to hold the clutch.
OMG this worked on my 2005 CV!!!!, I did this for 3 seconds and no TC tensioner rattle when it started! 😲
Absolutely flood mode for the win
Lucas oil treatment newer engine formula is for variable timing engines. Helps on cold start for. Jeep high horsepower 4 litre used to have an extended crank time to get oil pressure first. Was strange feeling but worked well.
I now do this everytime I start my 2011 SHO. They still rattle a little but not as bad or long.
Appreciate this. Works on 2.7
Kick's down quicker as well