let's discuss: the obsession with marilyn monroe
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 21. 05. 2022
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Edited by Israh S.
SOURCES
The Many Lives of Marilyn by Sarah Churchwell
Heavenly Bodies by Richard Dyer
Some Kind of Mirror by Amanda Konkle
MARILYN MONROEâS STAR CANON: POSTWAR AMERICAN CULTURE AND THE SEMIOTICS OF STARDOM uknowledge.uky.edu/english_et...
Marilyn Monroe, âsex symbolâ: film performance, gender politics and 1950s Hollywood celebrity www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
Marilyneveryday: The persistence of Marilyn Monroe as a cultural icon www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...
Trapped by Celebrity Status and Dead Too Soon: Aspirational Limitations and the Career Trajectories of Marilyn Monroe and Jim Morrison brill.com/view/book/edcoll/97...
âThis industry lives on gossip and scandalâ: female star narratives and the Marilyn Monroe biopic www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1... - KrĂĄtkĂ© a kreslenĂ© filmy
the treatment of marylin's comedic acting reminds me of how men so often dont pick up on women's jokes and sarcasm, they just assume that women are being literal and stupid.
Holy crap Im realising one of my guy friends probably thinks Im an idiot cus of my comedy XD
@@janibii_608 ?
This is so true omg
fr why do they do that đ
fr omfg
The fact that Hugh Hefner could BUY a final resting place next to Marilyn is appalling to me. And Kim Kardashian could just buy a fast wear of a dress Marilyn herself wished no one else would wear. People forget Marilyn was a person. You can be inspired but this is objectifying, the same thing that was done to her as a sex symbol when she lived.
I still stand by the fact that Britney Spears her Toxic outfit was a FAR better tribute to Monroe than whatever Kim did, even if probably (?) unintentional
@@thekitkatlizard8661 This is true. Tributes and creations "inspired by" something is artistic freedom. It goes off on an original tangent even if the origin doesn't belong to the artist. But copying THE VERY ITEM is... unsettling.
@@thekitkatlizard8661 definitely agree. I've seen dress historians bring up the point that Kim was wearing the original only for some pictures, it wouldn't zip up and it's extremely fragile. Why even wear the original and ruin its value if it's just for a few minutes (I know why: because she can).
I think a dress made for Kim's measurements and skin tone would've been a tribute and not just flaunting one's wealth.
Hugh and Kim are shallow but armed with bills. Classic boomers
@@lunix3259 Kim is an elder millennial.
This video is a lot more poignant after the release of âBlonde.â Iâm so tired of Marilyn being ruined by men
So fricking disgusting to see how they keep on tarnishing her reputation and struggle
Horrible ppl
your comment has 333 likes right now
Yâall women always love blaming men instead of taking responsibility when itâs so obviously clear that women are the ones constantly romanticizing Marilyn in this day and age.
the existence of that movie makes me so mad
Then try and do something to stop it.
I assume marilynâs comedy is often overlooked as well because we donât typically view women as capable of being intentionally funny. Instead of acknowledging her character as a representation of marilynâs comedic talent, we assumed that she WAS the over the top ditzy character, because somehow that was more believable to us than her being intentionally humorous
This is such a good point
i think it stems from a fear of a "power imbalance". by portraying marilyn as inherently ditzy, she becomes the punchline - it's safe to laugh at her because she's not going to turn on you and one-up you at any given point. this would have especially suited audiences of that time period, who viewed anything like autonomous women as a threat to the "natural order" of things.
a woman being witty enough to utilise that punchline as a facade, reclaiming it in a sense, throws the power all out of whack again. it breeds resentment - the loss of control over being played, in a sense, by someone who you'd safely assumed was just stupid by nature.
i think that's why she wasn't given credit where credit was due, and i think female comedians still face that resentment today.
It reminds me how in comedies, the men portraying dumb ones are funny and cool: because it's just a role.
Whenever a woman does it, it is assumed that's how women are: not a role.
That's one double-standard.
@@FocusedFighter777 whatâs your take on Lucille Ball then ? She had extreme humility and dared to be comedic without giving a damn.
Such a poignant point and explanation. It is so unfair and harmful.
Both genders suffer from ridiculous gender lies or stereotypes, like men should not show themselves in a way that is too vulnerable, and women should not show themselves in a way that is too tough. Ridiculous.
But women have a few extra inhumane lies to deal with, on top of the general gender biases, that tries to place them below men altogether:
1) women are not intelligent
2) women are not deliberately funny
3) women are not leaders / carry responsibility
It's entirely made up
To me I think admiring Marilyn Monroe for her sexual liberation is like admiring someone with an eating disorder for their thinness, itâs very unsettling
Very good point
EXACTLYY!!!
and then calling it "body positivity". I really loathe the vapid takes of girlboss "feminism"
@@katherinemorelle7115 omg exactly and whenever I try to explain this to my friends they just look at me like I'm some sexist 'anti feminist' person
Itâs actually better people donât know the truth, because then they pathologize her like you just did. Instead of holding that she had autonomy and trauma all at once! Hold both the truths at once. We are not just like a big ball of trauma or pathology. We contain multitudes.
I also think the obsession may actually stem from her tragically early death. Hollywood has this obsession with female youth and a tendency to immediately throw away any women that age. However with Marilyn because she passed before ever reaching that point she became this immortalized picture of female innocence, youth and sexuality that Hollywood and pop culture could latch onto.
That's really true, i think the same is partly the reason princess Diana is so idolized as well.
Yeah I agree, it's the "I rather die young than see myself turn old", as if ageing is the poison to women.
Sad but true
i thought mina had a video on this!
At age 36, in the early 1960's, she was no longer considered youthful.
Itâs so sweet that she gave some of her will to her therapist
From my understanding, she was planning on changing her will before she died. She had some falling out with Lee Strasberg's wife.
I've always thought it was creepy too.
I find it suspicious! (of the therapist)
it is but it's weird.
the therapist is suspected of her death!! not sweet but scary
Imagine the outrage if a deceased male celebrity like Alan Rickman or Heath Ledger were to be treated the same way as Marilyn Monroe
heath ledger IS constantly obsessed over not as himself but as his portrayal of the joker. the fact that there isn't currently an outrage kind of shows that this ingoing peddling of Marylin's image isn't entirely sexist. It's a universal issue
@@daltonbedore8396 We live in a capitalist society run on consumerism. Is this any surprise?
@@daltonbedore8396 His image is not plastered all over, divorced of what he stood for as a true person vs a character
Probably the most similar male example would be James Dean, and itâs still different because heâs celebrated for representing things that are considered cool & rebellious & âmanlyâ, not just being objectified for his looks.
I think Elvis would probably be the nearest equivalent. His music is still fairly well-known, though, as opposed to Marilyn's movies, so it's not *just* his image
The more and more I learn about Marilyn the person, the more and more I love and appreciate her. It's just so sad that she's not even person anymore but a marble deity.
How was this comment posted a day ago?
@@a99748 early video releases on patreon
@@a99748 Patreon
@@KeytarChris oh okay thanks for the info
wait 1 day ago ?? wao
Itâs honestly so sad people sexualize her image, only knowing barely a portion of the real person she was; how amazing she was as a human being.
@@yennefer440 I don't see the bs you speak of
@@yennefer440 did she actually đ
@@yennefer440 once again, don't know why you're making such a big deal about the fact my opinion changed based on reading more about the handling of the dress/marilyn monroe's life + the fact that kim also wore another of marilyn's dresses to the afterparty as well.
She fought for civil rights !
@@gremlita and Kim was also given Marilyn's hair too đ°
it's disgusting that even decades after her death, others still continue to be exploit her
I feel like Marilyn always resented her fame being connected to her sexuality. She knew she could get attention with her face and body but she wanted desperately for people to really see her as a person. My heart breaks for her, every man in her life took advantage of her.
They did it to Judy Garland too and Shirley Temple who was sexualized at 12 years old. I did read somewhere that Norma warned other women to be careful in the acting world.
âŒïž oh yeah I always tell people to watch don't bother to knock! That literally is a psychological thriller and a horror movie that Marilyn stars in and you can really see just how talented of an actress she really was. She was absolutely fantastic in this movie. And it's just an amazing movie in general! I personally think it's better than any of the comedies. So if you only get a chance to watch one Marilyn Monroe movie watch don't bother to knock.
â@@summerrose8110... Look up Shirley Temple "Baby Burlesques" to learn of sexualizing even at 5 years old.
Ultra Vegito: Monroe, at least you died knowing these "men" will be punished for playing God. Watch me from afar. These Gods that treated you like some slave will be no more. By my hand. And don't worry. Akira Toriyama won't judge you
Marilynâs inability to have a baby, terminated pregnancies, drug use and anxiety could have been due to endometriosis. One of the 20 most painful conditions in the world and underrepresented in public and medical discourse. Women have to âgrin and bear itâ which often means they rely upon heavy medication to manage pain and function. Which then exacerbates mental health problems
Thatâs so sad! If only medicine was better back then and they took womenâs health more seriously. Hopefully there will be even less issues for people with uteruses in healthcare in the future.
@@queerbotanicalqueen the healthcare system is still not very good at managing endometriosis. Even now itâs a lot of suffering dealing with the obstacles endometriosis the presents.
I think she had endometriosis and acute porphyria.
There was a study measuring the pressure of cramps for those with endometriosis and comparing it with childbirth. The results found that cramps from endometriosis can be up to twice as forceful as labor pains.
@@missanne2908 holy- youâre kidding? Wow. I knew endometriosis was a painful condition, both physically and in its effects on the women affected by it, but I didnât know it could be that painful.
I always feel deep sadness in my soul whenever Marilyn is mentioned. Her image is being dragged through so much, she deserves respectful remembrance, not exploitation and idolization after her death.
I feel the same way about James Dean as well. Just deep sadness.
and all this idolization is mainly bc of her sexx appeal,her body. not many even know her work or talent. sad world so invested in sÄx more than talent
YES
@@wutupwitdat5387 right on
Nothing wrong with idolizing her
Growing up I would see imagery of her and Audrey Hepburn slapped on just about anything, I knew her picture long before I knew who she was or what she did. Even today if you walk into an ICING store youll see them on random dorm room decor for no reason. I never really understood the obsession, like itâs not praise/admiration for Marilynâs work in movies or singing or anything, itâs just her IMAGE itself, itâs so odd. Like how many people who say they âlove Marilyn Monroeâ have actually seen her films?
Exactly! I do love both Marilyn and Audrey but even I don't feel comfortable in having their faces in my room đ
That is like saying you're a fan of a media you never consumed
True I don't think there's any other actresses from the old hollywood who's faces are known everywhere and widely recognised by people around the globe even till this day like Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn are. They are forever immortalised.
what makes me sad with regards to audrey hepburn is a lot of people i know think she died young. she didn't. she died in the 90s at 63 (still a younger age to die, but she was barely of senior citizen status when she passed) and i feel like the reason people don't know this is because she did a lot of humanitarian work with unicef--she chose helping less fortunate children over her acting career. no one wants to recognize her for that work though, they just wanna ogle at her in her scenes in roman holiday or breakfast at tiffany's. even within her career people don't even know that she took a risk in playing a lesbian in the movie "the children's hour" even though the film was nominated for several academy awards.
@@fey0217 I do not like lesbian roles.
"To see a woman so in charge of her sexuality..." Idk, to me it sounds like she did it out of necessity, not because she was glad to. And sure, that takes a level of guts. But it's also sad to be backed into that corner. That's not empowering.
Donât assume please. Marilyn made it very clear that she enjoyed her sexuality and playing up that image. The part she rightfully struggled with is how people/men treated her because of it.
exactly, dear.
@@a.j.1819 No no no, us SILLY women can't possibly do things for ourselves, don't be silly! /s
@@a.j.1819 she represents the group of women who are sexual beings but are shamed for it. It always breaks my heart whenever I hear about her or watch her movies. Being her and having men around must have been frightening.
"we are all sexual creatures, thank god"-- Marilyn. She most definitely enjoyed being a sexy woman. What she didn't like was society reducing her to nothing more than a sex symbol. A thing, she called it. To the studios and a lot of the public she couldn't be a sexy woman and be smart and serious. It was one or the other. What's sad is it still happens to this day, despite 1000+ books written about her, movies and documentaries people refuse to look at her accomplishments only her looks.
the obsession with marilyn monroe has always been there but now with all these movies and documentaries and kim kardashian its become so crazy... you can be inspired by her without being weird and some things (like kim getting a lock of her hair) are just TOO MUCH. It's sad marilyn deserves better :(
Ikr and all these people obsessed with her look, appearance, they don't care about her life, personality and etc. They treat her like a brand.
No Kim didnt do anything to make her bigger Monroe was AS famous alive as she was when she passed away.
@@alidemee8161 They never said that Kim made her more famous.
Apparently the lock of hair she got was fake đ
OMG she got a lock of her hair?!
I wish you had mentioned the men who bought grave sites around her. I don't remember their exact names but they're all buried in a morgue type grave sites where the bodies are stuck in individual tombs on top of each other. The man who bought the space directly above her said to lay his body face down so he could look at Marilyn Monroe for eternity. She doesn't get to escape prying eyes or her performance even in death.
The man that youâre talking about is the pig that is Hugh Hefner. đ€ą
that just makes me hurl. how damn sickening
Ya I think youâre referring to Hugh Hefner.. heâs foul to say the least
and i think that man was someone that abused her. not 100% on this but i remember watching a documentary that said so.
I believe the man above her actually owned that space before she died but then after finding that out he wished to be buried face down
I think it's nuts that these men decided who Marilyn was, not evening letting her decide and pick. The scene with the guy saying "There is something inside of her that is a model, where she just wants to show..."
and I'm just sitting here thinking, is that you're own sexualized twisted view of her? eagh.
This is so saddening to hear that all this happened to her.
This still happens daily
I have this happen to me
& the more private & to myself I am the worse the projections lies slander flare
Literally. He wants to look at her and interprets that as her wanting to be looked at
But Akira despite a number of his blunders will never have his views twisted. The mangaka god at least died without finding out too much perversion on many celebs who only wanted to be seens as mortals
Norma Jean went through so much. It's so disturbing how much we glamourise Marilyn's life as a pinnacle of femininity, when people literally had no idea how much she had to suffer - and how much disrespect she is STILL suffering decades after her death - in order to maintain that image. She seemed like a pure soul, too, which only makes it worse.
You seem to be wise about her life. Then, may I ask a question, completely caused by my ignorance? Why is she still perceived as the most iconic person? The internet failed to answer my questions, because all I could find was articles about her beauty and how much she was desired by men. I certainly refuse to believe that a woman who stood out with her beauty is still considered as the most iconic woman while thousands of intelligent and idealistic woman existed till today, who made unreplaceable remarks and contributions to our world. Just reminding that this has no aim to offend any of her fans, just to answer my curiosities.
I think the reason Marilyn is an "obsession" to some people is the fact that she was so beautiful yet had a Tragic life. We are intriged by someone who has seemingly everything anyone could wish for but still be unhappy. She's really relatable to us (not the small waist and picture perfect look but her personality and how not everything was perfect.)
Also she's a fashion icon, her gentlemen prefer blondes pink dress is I think the most referenced or parodied dress ever.
Also, dying young makes her a blank canvas people can project whatever they want onto. If she were still alive, she could say or do things people don't agree with. A dead person is always easier to idealize than a living one :\
â@@Patchwork101 exactly. This often happens with a lot of Hollywood icons that outlive their glory days. Alain Delon comes to mind. He'll always be remembered as an iconic sex symbol and a personification of the French aesthetic of the 50's and 60's. But as he has aged all the scandals he has been in and all the questionable declarations he has made have sure demystified his public image, especially since it's hard for most people to separate the art from the artist.
I think we have a rose colored look of what her fame was like at the time, yeah she was very famous, but she was also type casted as a sexy but low type of woman, she often had parts where she was promiscuous, greedy, and just overall a "bad woman" (edit: for the moral standards at the time). This made her a lot of money but doesn't mean she had respect from the overall public, she wasn't liked by women, and objectified by men. Remember this was at a time where people didn't really separate the actors from their roles, so people thought Marilyn was like the roles she played, instead of thinking of her as an actress who had a persona, like we think today, now that we know more about her and can separate the person from the persona.
Marilyn had autism/Aspergerâs. No matter how much success came her way, there were always people who took advantage of her. She lived with overwhelming sadness ultimately.
@@emnameherzi3342 and Françoise Hardy only recently learned of her ideologies, Brigitte Bardot too
Marilyn has always been an example to me of how the world treats women in general. Take and take and take and then judge you for falling apart due to their abuse.. overly sexulaized and her true personhood was never really appreciated. Smart and kind woman, but all anyone cares about Is how sexy she is.
And also judged for making a profit off her image when everyone else was doing the same thing.
@idk good analysis!
Exactly. Beauty and naivety will always be exploited more than it is used as a 'privilege' as some call it.
This world is so annoying đ€Šđœââïž
@@lemonade_011 it rlly is, fuck this damn world
She suffered miscarriages and endometriosis, she had such unhaooy youth its so sad she was never taken seriously. She deserves so much
Her ambition was to play Shakespeareâs heroines at the Globe theatre, and before her death she was in the process of creating her own production company/studio. So she could make the content she wanted to workâŠShe was truly an intelligent and artistic soul, but I feel Hollywoodâs objectification is haunting her legacy.
i'd love to see one for Amy Winehouse. She isn't hollywood but the glorification, villainisation, sexualisation and commentary on her is... a wild ride and i'd love to see a discussion by you on her as she was such an incredible person who once again, passed too soon
neil patrick harris having a birthday cake of amy winehouses corpse is one of the best examples of how gross people can be about idols and boundaries.
@@Laughingwithtravii it was a meat platter for his halloween party but your point still stands. it was so disgusting and on this metal platter thing that you would find in a morgue. so vile. only like 4 months after she died, too.
@@mylenaurelie yeees that, thank you.
Paris Hilton and Britney Spears too
@@Laughingwithtravii what the fuck???? omg thats so disturbing
tw: sexual abuse
marilyn monroe's image of being this wild sexual person also annoys me bc there are writings from monroe that hint at her dealing with sexual abuse growing up. so to know that her sexuality is one of the biggest things she's remembered for bothers me a lot. plus, she was progressive for the time, and i feel like that rarely gets talked about when ppl talk about her. they usually just focus on her beauty or her tragedy
Do you have links on such writing? I'd be interested to read it with my own eyes..!
Hadn't she also written in her diary that she never enjoyed sex with men? Or something like that
I think itâs a sad connection between her abuse growing up and how the public has viewed her sexually for so long. I believe it was her diary that had a quote from her which she describes herself as having no interest in sexual endeavors, and sensual as a fossil. The possibility of her being asexual rather than the wild sexual woman she was painted to be is interesting, especially considering everything
Yeah but every woman on this earth has been and still is sexualized
ïżŒ
@@annikamundy9619 Creating sensual or erotic content while being completely asexual is not a rarity nowadays(some of the best NSFW artists are aro\ace or demi), but nowadays we have the language to more accurately describe sexualities and also a modicum of respect towards asexual people. None of this was present in the 60's, and women were supposed to do and act how their men liked it, whether they were into it or not, so I absolutely do not exclude that Marylin was at least on the asexual spectrum.
An extremely common symptom of Endometriosis is painful sex, and the kind of abuse she was subjected to in childhood also tends to create huge problems with one's relationship with sexuality, so it's also possible it was a mix of many things, and not just asexuality.
Either way, I always found disgusting the way Marylin is viewed in pop culture, as either a dumb sex icon or a sad drug abuser, no respect for her, even in death.
It's so sad how Marilyn was treated by many people that she cared about. Even Arthur Miller, at that point where she was again trying to turn her life around, seemed to discard her as soon as he saw that she was a human, vulnerable and flawed like everyone else. What he wrote about her, was so horrible, and later how the Kennedy brothers are said to have passed her around like a horse to ride. I hope that at least some men watching eg the Marilyn Neyflix documentary will see this- how even the woman framed as this 'ultimate beauty' was essentially just *used*. And now let's remember that this is a blonde white woman with all the privileges that brings... and what this says about what kind of treatment women of colour had/have to deal with.
Joe DiMaggio too. He beat her after the infamous subway grate scene.
wasnt there also that one guy who wanted to be buried with her so that "she could be beneath him forever"
@@sofialara297 Hugh Heffner the playboy bunny guy
â@@manicpepsicola3431 no, there was an anonymous guy, he is currently buried upside down on top of her grave. He told his wife that if she didn't do it for him he'd come back to haunt her
What is anyone supposed to see? That a beautiful blonde woman is sexualised and abused? That's a standard pornographic trope.
No man is going to wake up to anything through any documentary on a beautiful film star. No woman either.
It's well-known; beauty is consumed and then destroyed.
The fact that Kim Kardashian wore her dress and ripped it and who Hefners able to just buy a spot next to Marilyn is so sad
The reason she was so frequently late was because she had terrible stage fright. She wasn't being a diva, she was having anxiety attacks. Probably she had difficulty remembering her lines because she was on a lot of psychotropic drugs, various types of barbituates. She wasn't dumb, she was in a chemical brain fog.
Yesss
I even remember reading how in the set of gentlemen prefer blondes Jane Russell had to go get her from her trailer and help her calm down as they walked to set
Marilyn was addicted to drugs. In bed nude most of the day. Her maid said so as well as Marilyn's closest friends who tried to get her up and dressed to go to work. Even if they got her there, she wouldn't come out of her trailer. She had many demons. She feared public opinion so much she was afraid to be seen on camera . She was very seductive for not liking sex. How can you exude sex appeal if you don't like it? Why would she put out the signals she does when she doesn't. Messy
@@I-dont-reply she and the people she knew wrote about it. She kept a whole journal that went public after she died
@@ichor2127 lame
@@I-dont-reply sowwy dwaddy đ„șđ„Ž
I feel so bad for her she deserves to rest in peace. It's honestly gross how people don't treat her as a real person and just as a object to look at even after she died
The fact she was treated as an object when she was alive too :/ Let this poor woman rest đ
That why at the end his ex husband didnt wanr any media or hollywood people when she died
I believe society should allow her to rest in peace. She was a wonderful person, but I don't think they should be profiting off her image anymore.
My sentiments exactly.
For reals
I'd love to see this sort of commentary about Frida Kahlo. Another incredibly distinctive woman whose image is now oversaturated everywhere. In both cases I'm sure these women would be horrified to see what we've made of their human lives. That said, I find them both (especially Frida) incredibly compelling figures and I struggle against the urge to turn them into symbols they never consented to be.
A white n@zi sympathizer who wore brownness and brownface so much ppl think she's brown. Good subject to continue this series I'm sure :/
Yes and no they both wanted to create and be a part of something especially frida but she knew that exposing herself was going to lead to something she never wanted yet the exchange is what is important imo. I don't agree with plastering their faces up on everything at all but at the same time people are going to do what they want to do whether you want them too or not, that being said they still wanted to put themselves out there because of what they knew they could bring to the table for people frida wanted her art to reach women and girls like her and anyone that could see what she meant. Yin and yang type thing I guess there's a push there is a pull God gives you something and then takes something else especially in the cases of both of these women.
@@manicpepsicola3431 Frida was a communist and marxist, she would absolutely fume at the idea of big Corporations making Billions of dollars by plastering her face on magnets and tshirts
âLegends never die.â
âIt takes a smart brunette to play a dumb blonde.â
Period
that clipped you played where the women are saying Marilyn was âin chargeâ of her sexuality is so disgusting and shows the lack of research. From the very beginning (the playboy picture) Marilyn was never âin chargeâ, yes she did go along with the role but it was always men behind the camera, men writing the scripts, men telling her what to do and what she should be. Iâm so tired of this choice feminism tryna make exploitation of women empoweringâŠ
âŒïžâŒïžâŒïž
Yes! The fact that she did that nude photoshoot for a mere $50, says plenty about how "in charge" she was.
Same
yes it's disgusting, but i have to admit that i had a good laugh hearing her say "she was so in charge of her sexuality" when she was possibly the most male gazed celebrity of all time, the irony
This!!
It makes me uncomfortable that the rights to her image could just be bought and sold like that. She released it to people she trusted and was used by people she never even met before. People feel entitled to marilynâs image, belongings and body. I canât believe Kim was given her HAIR. The literally gave away a piece of her without consent.
exactly, it makes me feel sick and i'm surprised more ppl don't talk abt that/ she gave the rights, like you said, to the people she trusted and they broke that
Yes! Even her actual body is surrounded by creepy men. I wish we could get rid of the men, then move her somewhere safe, collect her hair and all her possessions an just bury her and her things somewhere peaceful and safe where she could finally be left to rest đą
It's been said that it really WASN'T Marilyn's hair. @TisaTells did a video on it.
Anyone seen supernatural? Maybe Kim will get haunted for that disrespect.
...then Karma happens and...
I see the obsession as a male fetishism of 'tragic beauty' trope. I also find our society as a whole bossed with woman we see as damaged.
That is probably because it is suggestive of at least a modesty within the overtly sexual person. After all, overt sexuality is not perhaps wholly natural and hath to be balanced out with Something.
An overtly sexual person hath to seemingly have some humanity - such as being sad or depressed at times - in order to be accepted wholly/fully. This is perhaps because the person hath to be a Whole Person. * The person perhaps hath to be Convincing. The mixture thus can enable the said person to reach The Lord/Heaven and Paradise. ..Ultimately. Thus I do feel that it all doth make sense.
This is perhaps more to do with society's expectation that a Woman should have it all. Perhaps MM recognised this and was what people wanted MM to be. And the resulting effect is now shown. The long lasting effect/impact.
I think The Lord will*Forgive marilyn monroe. The Lord can surely see and understand the way that society itself is and how the society took its toll on MM. In other words, society itself pressured marilyn monroe to be a certain way and marilyn monroe herself railed against it. Seemingly so.
@@kiranjitKaur61 you need help
I watch all her movies till this day. She is FANTASTIC. Watching her brings me joy. One of her co-stars said when Marilyn saw a camera of someone she would completely change her face from being "her normal self" to glistering Marilyn Monroe the persona. She said she saw how sad she was because no one really ever knew her.
I'm sorry to all Kim fans but her wearing Marylin Monroe's dress, that was exposed in a museum, the ORIGINAL, when it was the last dress she wore before dying and saying she was proud to have lost the weight just to fit in just didn't sound right to me. Marilyn was an icon, Kim is a business woman. It didn't feel as glamorous at all
The dress was in ripleys believe it or not...
Yeah also it feels so less special now! Think about it the last person to wear it was Kim, not Marilyn
The museum shouldnât have allowed it tbh. A lot of people are mad at Kim because sheâs the easy target. And I donât think she shouldâve worn the dress, but I donât think the museum shouldâve allowed that in the first place.
That, and it totally missed the mark fashion-wise. When Marilyn wore it, it made an impact because the dress was so close to her skin tone that she almost looked nude, which was shocking especially because of the event. When Kim wore it, she was just wearing a sparkly beige dress. It was less impactful than some of her other met looks AND it didnât fit the theme in any way.
She still didn't fit it, btw. Her ass implants could only let it be zipped halfway up and that's why she was using that cheap last minute white fur jacket with it to cover the unzipped portion ctfu. she really should've let the whole idea go but I like to think that was Marilyn from above saying 'AHT AHT' to the whole thing đ đ
In all the Marilyn Monroe movies I've watched, her acting was the actual highlight, and what carried the films. It's absolutely insulting for any of her co-stars to say that she didn't put in the work, or that she wasn't a "real" actor.
exactly! marilyn was an amazing actress. laurence olivier wasnât an actor for the screen in my opinion. phenomenal actor, but not for the screen and marilyn was just able to âbeâ she didnât have to push like olivier. olivier was known to be a very egotistical and jealous actor who always wanted to be the bexy
She had a "it factor" whenever she's on screen, you can't take your eyes off her.
It's horrible, she was a good actress and even better singer.
I always feel bad every time I see any negative articles about her. She is a woman. A human. She deserves the respect that she has earned. Of course, she has done things that could be frowned upon in society, but that doesn't mean she is any lesser than anyone else. She deserves to be recognized for the good she has done. I'm tired of people stereotyping her.
It's strange to see ppl turn into symbols after death. It feels exploitative to make money off them now, whether it's with Elvis merch, a prince hologram, an Audrey deepfake, etc etc etc. I agree that Marilyn's acting is good, she knowingly played the innocent type, she wasn't being a "dumb blonde" stereotype or being herself either per se. I like her humor
Instead of reframing Marilyn's tragedies in life as "empowering", why not make it common knowledge how unfairly she was treated despite being such a remarkable woman? How steps in her career reflected this mistreatment and put deeper meaning to her actions and legacy than just being the most glamorous woman in Hollywood. Acknowledge that she was wrongfully reduced to a sex symbol when she was, in fact, a talented actress in her own right. Don't diminish important things about her like with the Kim Kardashian Met Gala dress situation-people claim Marilyn would "love seeing another curvy woman wear her dress" when in reality, Marilyn had that dress made specifically for her and her alone in response to the mistreatment and injustice she experienced.
She made a dress in response to her mistreatment... lmao what does that even mean??
@@londongirl6711 she was sexually abused
@@londongirl6711 She was mocked and belittled and endlessly sexualised. Sheâs done similar things before in response to insults. Like when a columnist called her âcheap and vulgar [âŠ] better off served in a potato sackâ and wore a potato sack in a photo shoot as a response.
And how much money was made on her back, by men: yet they always spit on women.
It's always the same story, because men gold diggers don't exist, of course.
So much prostitution yet the money goes to guys (monsters really), so much selling of movies/books/games etc based on how they sell it all through objectifying.
They get rich on our backs, yet they never mention this or get humbled or apologise or give US the money.
@@londongirl6711 girl do you know you can actually make an statement with the way you dress right?? just look at history Princess Diana being one of the most ionic examples of that
my grandmother is buried in the same cemetery as marilyn and on the day we interred her, a bunch of tourists came through to come see marilyn's grave. I was so upset, since it was already such an awful day and I was so bothered by the tourists just driving through and staring at us while we were mourning as if we were part of some attraction? it's like they had zero understanding or respect for the fact that these were all human beings with lives and loved ones left behind, not just meaningless graves and accessories to marilyn's tomb.
That's really sad knowing others have been buried there and they can't let these beautiful souls including Marilyn's rest in peace
I film and leave flowers for Marilyn Monroe on a regular basis. Pierce Brothers is very sensitive to families. I find this rather questionable as tourists and others are often told to come back later after services.
I meanâŠtourists are always there though. I wouldnât want anyone I love to be buried there
I'm so sorry that you had to endure such rudeness while burying your grandmother. My sincerest condolences to you and your family. My paternal grandparents are also buried in that same cemetery. What a small world we live in.
@@anonymous78546 I think it's very sweet that you come so often, and you've clearly spent a lot of time at the place and know the cemetery well. As you know, the grounds are open to the public and anyone can visit on any regular day. This was about 15 years ago, and the "service" was just myself and my father as her only remaining family. There was nothing/nobody at the time to stop people from driving in that day. While I do agree Pierce Brothers is sensitive and overall a very nice memorial park, I think that some people who come to view the tombs of celebrities lack those same sensitivities or understanding that Marilyn isn't the only one buried here. I myself actually just stopped by to visit my grandmother the other day and scattered some Jacaranda petals on her grave. If you feel so inclined, stop by the section where all the small cremated graves are and say hello to Dorothy and Gerald, I'm sure they'd appreciate the company âșâ€
Thatâs what I always say about acting. People claim itâs being fake when it reality we put on masks all day. Acting is more like peeling off our layers and revealing vulnerability and authenticity. If weâre being someone else, itâs coming from a place of empathy to lead to authenticity
No. Not everybody. I am authentically myself. At All times. Because I am Fearless.
It took time for myself to become fully authentic but I became it. And I believe I do not have any regrets over the past. I appear to have had a balanced life overall.
@@kiranjitKaur61 I never said everybody :) but thatâs great! Just like acting it takes work to become fully vulnerable
Girl I watched the documentary on Netflix about her life and was so heartbroken. I had no idea what she went through. I think the obsession is because soooo many women identify with her story.
Ngl that documentary spreads a lot of lies lol
@@neredya7605oh no lol I enjoyed it. Which parts are false ?
@@neredya7605 which parts are lies
@@anamiguel668 everything.
@@anamiguel668 its based off a book called goddess by Anthony Summers. Its not well regarded in the Marilyn community. A lot of his claims surrounding her death jfk involvement came from a deranged psycho fan called Robert F. Slatzer who took one picture with Marilyn, stalked her, and in the 1970s wrote a crazy ass book about being married to her in 1952, her little red diary. Just a fucked up individual who should've never been given a platform.
We dehumanise celebrities by putting them on a pedestal, this makes it easy to detach and not see them as people. It makes it easy to exploit them even long after they are gone.
GOD'S STANDARD FOR HEAVEN IS PERFECTION AND ONLY JESUS (THE SON OF GOD/GOD IN THE FLESH) LIVED THAT PERFECT LIFE! HE LAID DOWN HIS LIFE & TOOK THE WRATH OF THE FATHER ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS! GOD IS JUST SO HE MUST PUNISH SIN & HE IS HOLY SO NO SIN CAN ENTER HIS KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. IF YOU ARE IN CHRIST ON JUDGEMENT DAY GOD WILL SEE YOU AS HIS PERFECT SON (SINLESS SINCE YOUR SINS ARE COVERED BY JESUS' OFFERING). YOU CAN ALSO CHOOSE TO REJECT JESUS' GIFT/SACRIFICE & PAY FOR YOUR OWN SIN WITH DEATH (HELL) BUT THAT SEEMS PRETTY FOOLISH! GOD SEES & HEARS EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID & DONE. YOU WONT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH HIM & YOU CANT DEFEND ANY OF YOUR SINS TO HIM. YOU'RE NOT A GOOD PERSON, I'M NOT A GOOD PERSON... ONLY GOD IS GOOD! WE'RE ALL GUILTY WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS' SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS!
MUHAMMAD DIDN'T DIE FOR YOUR SINS, BUDDHA DIDN'T DIE FOR YOUR SINS, NO PASTOR/NO PRIEST/NO SAINT/NO ANCESTOR DIED FOR YOUR SINS, MARY DIDN'T, THE POPE DIDN'T EITHER, NO IDOLS OR FALSE gods DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO MUSICIAN OR CELEBRITY DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO INFLUENCER OR CZcams STAR DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO SCIENTIST OR POLITICIAN DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO ATHLETE OR ACTOR DIED FOR YOUR SINS! STOP IDOLIZING & WORSHIPING THESE PEOPLE!
JESUS CHRIST ALONE DIED FOR YOUR SINS & WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE GRAVE! HE IS ALIVE & COMING BACK VERY VERY SOON WITH JUDGEMENT (THESE ARE END TIMES)! PREPARE YOURSELVES, TURN FROM SIN & RUN TO JESUS! HE KNOWS YOUR PAIN & TROUBLES, HE WANTS TO HEAL & RESTORE YOU! TALK TO HIM LIKE A BEST FRIEND! ASK HIM TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU & HELP YOU TO BELIEVE IF YOU DOUBT! DON'T WAIT TO CRY OUT! NO ONE IS PROMISED TOMORROW! HE LONGS FOR YOU TO INVITE HIM IN, HE LOVES YOU MORE THAN ANY PERSON EVER COULD, HE CREATED YOU!
Jesus answered, âI am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."-John 14:6
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."-Matthew 10:33
âFor the wages of sin is death (hell), but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lordâ-Romans 6:23
Part of humanizing celebrities is accepting that we know more about the crafted image they sold, then the real them.
I feel like we tend to focus a lot on their hardships in attempt to make them relatable and and subconsciously fall into over emphasizing and borderline over pittying them then we would the average stranger. I donât know how to properly articulate it but it feels like the pedestal is there regardless. Just less damaging? I would have said healthier if it wasnât for the tendency to hyper focus on the likeable parts of them while dismissing the not so praiseworthy.
There's a quote I heard that says boys put women on a pedestal so they can look up their skirt
@@Grace_Zandile97 never heard of that saying before, but wow. Sadly too true it seems.
You comment this but everyone here is pulling that bs and then liking this commentâŠ
My grandmother who was a young lady around the same time as Marilyn had told me she wasn't a fan because of how suggestive she was in films. Although she never held anything against her as a fellow person. Mostly because my grandmother and Marilyn shared the same body type and that caused a lot of men to show unwanted interest in her. My grandmother was genuinely pure of heart (I haven't known anyone sweeter) and men would try to get her to be /like/ Marilyn. So she married the biggest nerd she could find that treated her with respect and encouraged her college education rather than seeing her as something pretty to own.
I'm happy your grandmother was treated well by your grandfather.
she was not suggestive , she was sexual , there are big difference between these two things
she was not suggestive , she was sexual , there are big difference between these two things
I dislike the implication that Marilyn was not pure of heart, thereâs nothing wrong with her being sexual
@@raisyrosye7656 wtf everything you said sounds super shady and weird
"Why is comedy viewed as a lesser medium." As a writer and script consultant, I can say with 100% certainty that comedy is harder to write. So many drama writers don't have this talent and this lie that only drama is worth anything has spread with time. If anyone realized that everybody can write mediocre drama, but few can write mediocre comedy, so many writers, actors, and directors would be out of work. I've always loved Marilyn. My mom was an old movie lover. So I used to watch all the old movies and my dad used to believe that Marilyn was just a dumb blonde. So I sat him down to watch Some Like it Hot and he realized that Marilyn had a comedic timing that was leagues above most of her costars. With time I've often wondered if the reason she was "difficult to work with" was because she wasn't taken seriously. Or maybe some days her own struggles made it harder for her to get into this persona, so she didn't want to act. She's not here to comment, so I can't say.
Iâm personally a big fan of Marilyn, but I really donât think itâs okay to still make money off of her. Let her rest. People really shouldnât âmilkâ her.
Your commentary reminds me of that story Amy Greene, the wife of Marilynâs personal photographer, told where she recalled her and Marilyn were âwalking around New York City⊠she loved New York because no one bothered her there like they did in Hollywood, she could put on her plain Jane clothes and no one would notice her. She loved that.
So as weâre walking down Broadway, she turns to me and says âDo you want to see me become her?â
I didnât know what she meant but I just said âyesâ- and then I saw it.
I donât know how to explain what she did because it was so very subtle, but she turned something on within herself that was almost like magic. Suddenly cars were slowing down and people turning their heads and stopping to stare. They were recognizing that this was Marilyn Monroe as if she pulled off a mask or something, even though a second ago nobody noticed her.
I had never seen anything like it before.â
Stunning story, thank you for posting it here
that was marilyn monroe manifesting. thereâs tons of articles on it
Wow, thats an awesome story!! I can picture it as I was reading it. Can you imagine how amazing it would be to actually see her change like that?
And yet they disregarded her...
I think it was Susan Strasberg who recounted this story, Lee Strassbergs daughter and a fiend of Marilynâs, not Amy Greene, who was good to her too by the way.
One of the things that make me realized that Marilyn was viewed as this "bimbo-blonde girl" is the fact that she forced that 'sensual' tone of her voice in many of her movies and even do it off-screen just because people like that kind of tone more than her natural one. She was never viewed as a human being or was well-known for her actions nor how much she suffered in the industry. She was just a girl that was pretty and the people around the media made sure that we stick with that version of her. She was dehumanized when she was alive and people keep using her image to promote even a towel or borrowed her dress for selfish reasons as part of her legacy. Let this girl be in peace, geez.
Also, i would love to see a video about Judy Garland or about the male gaze during the movies of the 80's. Love ur content
I found out that she had a stutter. Her speaking in breathy tones helped her speak without stuttering which makes sense
judy garland would be an incredible video.
@@keyaunna. I think so too!
I used to roll my eyes whenever people would mention and gush over Marilyn Monroe. I didn't get the obsession over her (and still don't) because to me, she was just another rich white woman who was overly fetishized and exaggerated. That is, until I learned of how she was very cool towards African Americans back in the era where racism was openly displayed and even encouraged. When I read about how Marilyn helped an African American singer to be able to perform at a very famous club owned by a racist owner who discriminated against the singer performing there, I was honestly surprised. She did not have to do what she did, yet she did it anyway. Marilyn sat in the club every time the African American singer performed just so that the woman can sing. That gave me a newfound respect for her. There were also other things Marilyn did to help out other African Americans but the other side of Marilyn rarely gets talked about. All anyone wants to talk about is how beautiful and sexually inspiring she is. No one also mentions how Marilyn herself was inspired by someone else to be the way that she is. Women wanted to be like Marilyn but Marilyn wanted to be like Dorothy Dandridge, her best friend, a woman of color. Sadly, they both died almost the exact same way.
And I will add that Marilyn, Frank Sinatra, and I forget the third person, they all put their money together to buy a hotel exclusively for black entertainers. This was in Las Vegas, and apparently black entertainers were not allowed to stay at same place as whites. I can't even imagine, just horrible! đĄ Anyway, how cool is that?đŻâ€ïžđ
The singer youâre talking about is Ella Fitzgerald, at the club Mocambo!
So you only liked her because she helped an African american woman, even though there're more reasons to also like her, because did a lot of amazing things to help others too
This comment screams shallow, I hate her even though I know nothing about her, but now I only like her for one specific reason only, instead of opening myself up to other reasons why she is loved. Yeah, that's fucking shallow, you're judging a book by it's cover.
@@Snow-xd4rv They mentioned that she did other things in her comment. They just focused on something most people donât/didnât know.
I would love it if you did a video on Jean Harlow, the original blond bombshell who Marylin idolized as a child. There were so many similarities between them. Both got married very young, died their hair bleach blond, had curvy figures, died tragically at very young ages etc.
I was grossed out by Heffner making sure that after he died, he was buried right next to her. It felt a bit like he sexually assaulted her memory
Edit because I'm getting bored of explaining this to people: that was a simile. If you don't know what a simile is, look it up. You passing primary school English is not my problem
Wasnât there a guy who wanted to be buried above her and insisted to be placed facing down. Creeps me out.
Ewwww thatâs gross
@@user-ey9uj6vp9s omg thatâs also gross
@@user-ey9uj6vp9s I just looked it up and that guy threatened to haunt his wife if she didn't turn him face down at his funeral. That's her last memory of her husband's body...gross.
I don't know if this is bad of me to say but honestly, those guys should've been cremated.
People wax poetic about how tragic she is without realizing their obsessed behavior towards her was a huge part of what drove her to that tragic end. She was never allowed to be a person and that is soul crushing.
"Let her rest" is about the best phrase i can think of when it comes to her.
Yea I heard men were too obsessed with her beck then. She was only human
Amen
I can't talk about Marilyn without feeling sad. I didn't know her, obviously, but I don't know how to explain how I feel about her. I wish I could go back in time and save her :c
"People love to see themselves represented in celebrity narrative because... people like to have someone to fixate their issues around. They want someone to start the conversation for them when it comes to things that they're internally dealing with." Mina Le.
Wow, yes.
I'm so sad she never got those dramatic roles she wanted. She dreamed of playing lady Macbeth and Grushenka. Marilyn had a dramatic scene in the Bus stop that she was sure would bring her an Oscar nomination and she was devastated when it was cut out in post production. However, she was brilliant in comedic roles! She also had her first roles in theatre, maybe if Larry Olivier knew it, he wouldn't be so harsh on her (or maybe he was just angry she outshone him in the Prince and the Showgirl). Marilyn was incredibly devoted to acting and I'm frustrated every time I see her reduced to a sex symbol or something. It's like we've never moved on from the 50s mindset!
Laurence Olivier has always been bitter, even his ex-wife outperformed him and won an Oscar before him
Oh to have seen her performance as Lady Macbeth!
I agree with your statement. Thank you for saying what many of us have wanted to say but couldn't find the right words to express it like you did.
@@redfullmoon yup, that's Vivian Leigh
@@redfullmoon imagine competing with your loved one instead of being happy for them - how messed up
Yes! Thank you for commenting on her acting. Her comedic timing was not an accident, she was genuinely that good at what she did. Itâs a shame that people donât focus on that more, she was so talented.
I also think some of the mythos around Marilyn has to do with her seeming so âmysteriousâ. Since she had to keep up the Marilyn character constantly, Norma Jeane as a person wasnât very well known. Many stars from that period in film got older and retired, so we saw them outside of their personas. Marilyn never got that chance. The documentaries, books, movies etc are meant to, perhaps, try to piece together information to really figure out who Norma Jeane was, but sheâs gone and thereâs only so much that can be said about her life that hasnât already been said.
Method acting definitely can be unhealthy. Being encouraged to blur the boundaries between ourselves and others, and to treat trauma as something to be indulged in, to be flippantly lived through.
Happy Birthday Marilyn, 96 years.Young forever in our hearts.
Itâs sad that once you become a celebrity you can never rest. In life or in death. Itâs creepy that even in the after life people wonât let you rest. Marylin Monroe has been dead for literally years and her last moments where the most depressing. The pressure to be perfect as a celebrity still holds up today, itâs sad that new celebrities arenât to far off from that idolization. Idolization leads to isolation. The most lonely feeling in the world is to feel like the world is watching you but canât see how physically
in pain you are. Let Marylin Monroe and other celebrities whoâve passed away move on in deathđđœđ.
Right? I know this is not how our world works but I think that a lot of actors would be happier if they could free themselves from their imagine at some point in their life. Like, you're a famous actor in your 30s but after that you just wanna be there for your family and open a little cafĂ© without being bothered? Not possible. The possibility to switch careers once you're famous is just not given. Maybe for some lucky people who had reasonable success but weren't like world famous. Oh and I'm not sorry for rich people it's just that actors are basically artists and a lot of them also have ADHD, also it's just natural for humans to try new things. But that's just my thoughts as someone with ADHD bc I'd be bored being an actor my whole life (plus imagine always playing the same roles)đ
@@moongirl8807 exactly
Most people would love to be remembered đ wtf?
GOD'S STANDARD FOR HEAVEN IS PERFECTION AND ONLY JESUS (THE SON OF GOD/GOD IN THE FLESH) LIVED THAT PERFECT LIFE! HE LAID DOWN HIS LIFE & TOOK THE WRATH OF THE FATHER ON THE CROSS FOR YOUR SINS! GOD IS JUST SO HE MUST PUNISH SIN & HE IS HOLY SO NO SIN CAN ENTER HIS KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. IF YOU ARE IN CHRIST ON JUDGEMENT DAY GOD WILL SEE YOU AS HIS PERFECT SON (SINLESS SINCE YOUR SINS ARE COVERED BY JESUS' OFFERING). YOU CAN ALSO CHOOSE TO REJECT JESUS' GIFT/SACRIFICE & PAY FOR YOUR OWN SIN WITH DEATH (HELL) BUT THAT SEEMS PRETTY FOOLISH! GOD SEES & HEARS EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID & DONE. YOU WONT WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH HIM & YOU CANT DEFEND ANY OF YOUR SINS TO HIM. YOU'RE NOT A GOOD PERSON, I'M NOT A GOOD PERSON... ONLY GOD IS GOOD! WE'RE ALL GUILTY WITHOUT ACCEPTING JESUS' SACRIFICE FOR OUR SINS!
MUHAMMAD DIDN'T DIE FOR YOUR SINS, BUDDHA DIDN'T DIE FOR YOUR SINS, NO PASTOR/NO PRIEST/NO SAINT/NO ANCESTOR DIED FOR YOUR SINS, MARY DIDN'T, THE POPE DIDN'T EITHER, NO IDOLS OR FALSE gods DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO MUSICIAN OR CELEBRITY DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO INFLUENCER OR CZcams STAR DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO SCIENTIST OR POLITICIAN DIED FOR YOUR SINS, NO ATHLETE OR ACTOR DIED FOR YOUR SINS! STOP IDOLIZING & WORSHIPING THESE PEOPLE!
JESUS CHRIST ALONE DIED FOR YOUR SINS & WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE GRAVE! HE IS ALIVE & COMING BACK VERY VERY SOON WITH JUDGEMENT (THESE ARE END TIMES)! PREPARE YOURSELVES, TURN FROM SIN & RUN TO JESUS! HE KNOWS YOUR PAIN & TROUBLES, HE WANTS TO HEAL & RESTORE YOU! TALK TO HIM LIKE A BEST FRIEND! ASK HIM TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO YOU & HELP YOU TO BELIEVE IF YOU DOUBT! DON'T WAIT TO CRY OUT! NO ONE IS PROMISED TOMORROW! HE LONGS FOR YOU TO INVITE HIM IN, HE LOVES YOU MORE THAN ANY PERSON EVER COULD, HE CREATED YOU!
Jesus answered, âI am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."-John 14:6
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."-Matthew 10:33
âFor the wages of sin is death (hell), but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lordâ-Romans 6:23
I wrote a paper on this once and the way we treat celebrities is very similar to how we treated religious and other âsolemnâ figures in the past, particularly Catholic saints. People would try to smuggle out saintsâ finger bones in their mouths for their ostensible healing powers; in the case of Ancient Egyptian mummies, Europeans would crush their bones up and consume them for similar powers. In Papua New Guinea, people would eat the bodies of their long deceased ancestors. While these corpses and images were objects of reverence, they were also objects of fetishization. Even the word fetishization alludes to objects that are not intrinsically religious or solemn (think Saint Bernadetteâs finger bones vs. a piece of the True Cross, or a hair from Husaynâs horseâs head vs. The Kaaba) which are worshipped fervently.
It's actually so sad to see that in our society a lot of people just remember her as a sex symbol, as an image, or even as an aesthetic, my god SHE WAS A FREAKIN PERSON, who did a lot of awesome things just to be overshadowing by the "she's only pretty and hot", she was a beautiful person, don't dehumanize her more (I'm taking to you Kim)
People have done this for a long time and I think its disgusting and sad :(
It really boils down to âwomen can be hot and well rounded? Does not computeâ
Kim is viewed in the same light as Marilyn... she's viewed as an image before she's seen as a person yes it sucks she wore her dress but Kim is not the one who's diminishing her
@@ambersmith2612 - Thank you, was gonna say the same thing here. I almost prefaced my statement with "fyi I'm not a fan of Kim" and quickly realized it was irrelevant and how alot of us are subconsciously trained to try to distance ourselves from problematic figures, when it shouldn't matter. I want to defend her regardless of how I feel about her influence, bc as you said, at the end of the day she is also human.
@@YourMajesty143 but people shouldn't defend a bad person who's done bad things 'because they're human'. There's been lots of evil or bad humans in the world and there still are, we shouldn't be told not to critically judge public figures with such a big social influence
it's heartbreaking that even after her death, she is so disrespected
Iâve always been drawn to Marilyn partly because sheâs stunning and magnetic but also because she was so honest and vulnerable. Even though she had a persona of sorts, I feel that there was always an aspect of her in interviews that was just deeply human and sensitive and thoughtful. I hope in the future there continues to be more focus on her insights and talents and less on her branded image and objectification.
It is a Man's world. The perception of MM is perhaps here to stay. I Love MEN. * Men are the Natural Leaders and have the Power.
Life is always ultimately Fair and right. I do not fear a thing. Everything works out. Nobody needs to fear.
fun fact: my very religious and Muslim grandma loves her, we live in a third world Muslim country but her influence still managed to seep through
I know not all muslim people are not extremely religious etc. (I live in Turkey) but it is so great that your grandma can just like appreciate people and not sticking with old-headed, (I dont have great eng. knowlege) like really religious 3rd world countryâs people can sometimes be.
@@idil182 - "Old-fashioned" đ I get what you all mean. My mom is super religious (Muslim) and LOVED Princess Diana, she's also attached to Jane Fonda - as well as her soap opera stars lol. I'm ex-Muslim now and the fact that my mom still accepted me (despite my apostasy) also speaks to how much more progressive Muslims have become.
My Muslim mom also adores Marylin and Princes Diana
@@idil182 yes indeed, although the part where I'm from other people still don't appreciate people like Marilyn, I mean they freak out if some one where's something above there ankles
@@YourMajesty143 All Muslims and brown people love Princess Diana. My dad talked about her often. She was a great person and continues to be a role model.
I wish Marilyn got more credit for her comedic talent. She's incredibly funny!
I know! It's one of the biggest injustices of her legacy ( of which there are many) She was so god damn funny. Sometimes certain scenes and lines of hers just pop into my head for no reason. Like in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, when she thinks the tiara is a necklace and says she doesn't know how it will fit over her head, lol. Just so funny and that is an incredible talent.
She really does deserve more credit. I'm in my 30s and never bothered to watch any of her films until a few months ago. I was blown away by Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. Sooo many good lines, and here I was living under a rock thinking I'd be bored watching someone who's been marketed as just a blonde sex symbol all my life.
She was wickedly funny. Her roles in Some Like It Hot and Gentlemen Prefer Blondes really uplift me if I had a crummy day.
@@QueenOfTheComments And you disrespect her why? Bro what purpose does that serve..?
@@canofbeans7631 look at the username. Ignore bait
Fun fact, Marilyn Monroe and Queen Elizabeth II were born in the same year. Imagine if Marilyn hadn't passed!
Ever since I learned how haunted of a woman Marilyn was (via her therapists notes that were revealed on a documentary) my heart aches for her immensely. Sheâs always refer to herself as a waif(an orphan) and simply longed for familial connection. She had everything youâd think you want but in reality she was so lonely, afraid, and insecure. What is worse is that nobody saw or tried to see it, Marylin was over serialized and in death over capitalized.
That makes me so sad to hear Marilyon had endometriosis. I have endometriosis and it's horrific. Even now the lack of research is unacceptable and the treatments are subpar. I can't even imagine how hard it must have been then.
Maybe pain meds could help
@@summertimetea4594 I take them and it does help. But it's not a line term viable solution.
@@summertimetea4594 pain pills should not be the end all be all solution
its depressing knowing that on top of everything mentioned, marilyn had converted to judaism when she married one of her husbands and was known to have kept her jewish faith enthusiastically post divorcing said husband, but her clown last husband gave her a lutheran burial... which is frustrating bc its still men in her life forcing choices on her post mortem
Yeah this really pisses me the f off funerals and death are important always try your damndest to meet the wishes of the deceased.
Another thing about Marilyn Monroe is that she is also the victim of so many conspiracies. Every time I want to learn more about her life, Iâm bombarded with conspiracy theories, and a lot of them are so ridiculous and not based on any facts.
Thatâs with pretty much every celebrity unfortunately, a lot of the facts on the internet about them I think arenât even trueâŠ
Like Judy Garland and the munkins or Herve who played Tatoo on Fantasy IslandâŠ
- In Judyâs case for many years, even after she and the munkins passed, thereâs people claiming that they harassed her off set and everything and were this and that, when in reality they were all very kind and nice to Judy as Judy was to them, (Judy actually made jokes about them doing that other stuff and for whatever reason people believe itâs trueâŠ
Same case for Herve from Fantasy Island (okay itâs kinda hard to tell if things are true or not with him), but honestly similar to what you said, the majority of celebrity factâs especially after they pass like this arenât even true, like I think all that stuff the internet claims he did off set of Fantasy Island and etc. isnât even true, (Besides unfortunately in the end which was true how âŠyou knowâŠ) but anyways when he was still around I seen like interviews and stuff with him and he seemed sweet and funny, and on FI, (the complete opposite at what they said about him offscreen of FI, itâs just weird to think that when he didnât seem like that, but as I said though it could of been true, it could of been not, but Most of that stuff was at the beginning of his career from that, so I believe if all that stuff was true, they didnât say anything yet or etc.. But apparently near the end of FI they fired him for a salary, not so much that other stuff I think, but yeah, they even made a movie about him going from all those theories he was different off set and this and that, I mean, if all that stuff he did and the way he was off set was actually true, he probably of wouldnât have even been or allowed on the show or on TV in the first place or got any roles, but I believe in the end he was just tired of Tatoo and acting⊠Hollywood became too much for him as he couldnât get much work and didnât know what else to do besides acting like so many stars like Marilyn Judy, Bobby Driscoll, etc. unfortunately I believe⊠Honestly I think just playing Tatoo and then leaving Hollywood would of been a lot better for him because he wouldnât of gotten typecasted and got tired of being typecasted and etc. I believe Hollywood unfortunately really took advantage of him and he was just tired of it and being typecasted⊠I mean we donât know, but thatâs what I thinkâŠ.
There was a âYou must remember thisâ series of podcasts about Hollywood blondes and a couple episodes about Marylin. It was the most truthful story about her that iâve ever heard.
I heard some of that series too. Including the episodes on Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield.
I recommend a video on Dorothy Dandridge, a old Hollywood star who broke molds for black women at the time but didn't ever recieve the same recognition as Marylin due to racism. Not enough ppl talk about her and it's a shame. She deserves shine.
It's funny you should mention her, bc Marilyn was a huge fan of hers and drew alot of inspiration from her.
the movie of her is pretty good too
@@YourMajesty143 They were friends and hung out a lot in the early days of their careers. Their stories are unfortunately parallel to each other.
i would LOVE to see this.
Dorothy dandrige has reincarnated as Doja Cat.
I remember reading somewhere that once Marilyn was walking somewhere in New York city with a friend and her friend asked why they weren't getting noticed by the passers by, Marilyn basically said that no one really cares about her unless she was 'acting as Marilyn', she asked her friend whether she wanted her to 'turn on Marilyn' and then within 5 minutes everyone on that street was rushing towards them, shaking Marilyn's hand and trying to get an autograph
Could it have been from the book called the charisma myth? I remember reading about that moment in the first few pages
@@onwards.and.upwards That sounds like a good book, and the title makes sense.
Just looked it up, and know Iâm getting it. Thanks for mentioning it.
@@onwards.and.upwards I believe so !
I heard of this too. That's crazy. I guess she has charisma
my girl wasn't allowed to breathe without being sexualized...
I was surprised that you didn't bring up that Hugh Hefner paid to be buried next to Marilyn. I also recall Richard Poncher requested to be buried face down over Marilyn Monroe. It's insane how much disrespect Marilyn gets in death. I was not happy that Kim wore that dress, it would have been nicer if she stuck to a reproduction, especially if it was tailored to Kim's skin tone.
Srsly? Crazy
She used her privilege and influence to promote Black artists like Ella Fitzgerald and we have to stan
Yes, I'm very happy that she wasn't racist and actually helped people.
@@BratzRockAngels Ava gardener wasnât a racist either and rumor has it that she would dump her boyfriends if they were racist or bigoted towards any minority
@@Pink_pr1ncess Ava Gardner was good friends with Lena Horne.
One of the biggest reasons why I love Marilyn
yeah and she was a good friend of Dandrige
I've never thought of Marilyn as sexual,more sensual.But I'm not a man.I think it's largely women who idolise her.She speaks to them of the glory of being fully embodied and confident in your own skin .
lately, i have been binge watching marilyn monroe. yes, she is plastered everywhere. clearly, she was a beautiful woman. i know that she is known for her beauty, but she was never someone i had admired till i got to know her as norma jean. i am definitely her fan now because she was SWEET, PURE and just overall genuinely KIND person. There is no one out there like her that's for sure. she's one of a kind.
I hate when people constantly wax lyrical about how she was "the most beautiful woman in the world." It's really creepy and makes her into a doll or an object. She was not a goddess or somehow different than other people. It's very disturbing to have people do this. All they seemingly care about is her body and they refuse to see her as human.
You can appreciate a woman's beauty without objectifying her tho. Marilyn DID have something special in her beauty, that very few people have.
@@rosenrot9707 but this special beautiful quality is more a testament to what radiated from her from the inside - her innocence, playfulness, pure outlook on life and sweet and generous character, therefore it is those character trades that should be mentioned more instead of just using the word 'beautiful' imo, or maybe they could say 'most beautiful person' instead of only saying 'most beautiful woman' all the time
@@ffreshfields5211 Yeah, well, itâs actually annoying that she is reduced only to thatâŠ.she was actually a pretty smart woman, but people donât remember her for that.
@@rosenrot9707 @Rosenrot yes she was super intelligent but do you think that being remembered for being pure and generous is not as good as being remembered as smart? I would say that true kindness and generosity is the most important trait anyone can have and speaks of intelligence but more so actual wisdom, which is more important than intellectuality or tested IQ alone or without the character to back it up or give it meaning. I remember her more so as extremely innocent and thus wise than mere smart. There are lots of other smart people out there who are at the same time emotionally dumb and fail to see the bigger picture of life, therefore they do not shine bright, and she was not one of them. Smart does not capture her. Bright like a diamond does. This is why i said it would perhaps be better to call her a beautiful person than a beautiful woman, as it bypasses the unfortunate sexism towards women that objectifies and reduces what is both inside and out.
I hate these comments of people just saying making ANY comment of her is creepy. There is literally nothing wrong with calling her beautiful?? Itâs a damn compliment. Relax. The REAL problem that would come up is if people objectified her. Calling someone beautiful doesnât reduce them to an objectđ my godđ
The public love seeing women who are suffering or pick them apart , just to be remembered for their looks and when theyâre not that theyâre gonna find some else more younger and more beautiful to play with.Itâs so sick and twisted
!!!! Preachhh
Apart from the loving women suffering, do you see any problem with being remembered by someone's look? (Just a curiosity question that has nothing to do with the video)
@@meh_im_a_sheep6018 No an Image is carefully crafted by themselves but when other people paint you as a different person it makes other people view you in a different light.Thats why Marilyn was typecasted as a sexy woman and only put value on her by her appearance Even though she was more than that.She loved to read books,she loved to entertain us in a way she wanted to (and Im sure shes more than what I said) but being remembered for your looks is amazing she just wanted to be seen that being more than just being beautiful.
@@joshmomo2917 yes... Regarding Marylin i just feel sad... Everything I've heard from her makes it look like she honestly wanted to be more than a "sexy woman". I hate that the industry took so much advantage of her. When Mina said that the playboy dude showed her body like that.... I was feeling honestly disgusted.
ikr its so misogynistic and objectifying and commodofies women
Thank you! I saw the trailer for Blonde, and I was like, âUgh! Not another Marilyn movie!â Just let her rest.
They tell you while you're young
"Girls, go out and have your fun"
Then they hunt and slay the ones who actually do it
Criticize the way you fly when you're soarin' through the sky
Shoots you down and then they sigh, and say
"She looks like she's been through it"
This video & discussion reminded me of some verses from "Nothing New" by Taylor Swift.
Iâve always loved Marilyn Monroe ever since I learned about her. She was so kind and smart, and of course very pretty. She was and still is an icon. She deserved to be recognized as more than just a sex symbol but for her smarts and kindness towards others. Plus she was funny (she wore a potato sack in a magazine just to prove people who said it was the clothes that made her pretty) and witty. I hope your time in heaven is going well.
she was awesome
It reminds me of what Rita Hayworth said, âIâm an actress. I have depth. I have feeling. But they donât care. All they want is an image.â
As someone who is surviving with mental health issues, anxiety, endometriosis and addiction I relate to her expressions of femininity that may now seem like a standard but for her was a statement to her creation of an identity. I think those struggles can alienate from feeling connected with everyone else and being a caricature of a woman so beautiful that becomes the conversation versus the other things.
You made my two favorites, thank you for that. Very well spoken, sensible and considerate. Iâm grateful you made this.
I agree with your opinion on the "girlbossification" of Marilyn. She really was a woman in the 1950s dealing with being a woman at that time. I think this also plays into your other videos about the fascination with the "Tumblr Girl" sad, but beautiful motif. I enjoy these types of videos, and I hope you make more of them!
Iâm not sure if itâs true but the quote about Marilyn that has always stuck with me is from Amy Greene, wife of Marilynâs personal photographer Milton Greene:
âIâll never forget the day Marilyn and I were walking around New York City, just having a stroll on a nice day. She loved New York because no one bothered her there like they did in Hollywood, she could put on her plain-Jane clothes and no one would notice her. She loved that. So, as we were walking down Broadway, she turns to me and says, âDo you want to see me become her?â I didnât know what she meant but I just said âYesâ - and then I saw it. I donât know how to explain what she did because it was so very subtle, but she turned something on within herself that was almost like magic. And suddenly cars were slowing, and people were turning their heads and stopping to stare. They were recognizing that this was Marilyn Monroe as if she pulled off a mask or something, even though a second ago nobody noticed her. I had never seen anything like it before.â
The idea of 'becoming her' always makes me think about how Marilyn didn't get enough credit for her acting. If the quote is true, she was such an amazing actress. She made so many people believe her persona was real.
you should put these one spotify! all i want it to listen to your talks while i bike! â€ïž
I think she was a very misunderstood woman in her time but a very strong, liberal & caring person. I read a book about her one day in 1981 and became fascinated with her life struggles, movie career & the affect she had on the world during her stardom. I find her fascinating in so many ways & it breaks my heart when her image/persona is disrespected. BTW, I thought you did a great job in this video on her. You have a great speaking voice & mannerism. Cheers!
Its so sad how she converted to be a jewish women and she genuinely loved and felt part of the religion and culture, but the last act of violence from her ex husband against her was burring her in a christian place and in christian ways, and a lot of people donât know that
How awful
that's fucking awful indeed.
wow i thought i knew a lot about marilyn but never that she was jewish. thank you so much for this comment! so enlightening but also so heartbreaking
i thought she wasnât a real religious woman
Burring?
OMG MINA U HAVE TO TALK ABT THE COSTUMES IN EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ALL AT ONCE THEY ARE ABSOLUTE MASTERIECES
this was so eye opening! I hope you'll consider doing more deep dives into controversial or misrepresented celebrities :) I really enjoyed this one!
The more I learn about her the more I just want to hug her, she is so much more that a sex symbol. She was a woman a human who struggled and it doesnât sit right with me that she is reduced to being a sexy woman.
I think the only person who could tell Marilyn Monroe's story is Marilyn herself. We all see and react to people differently so, all of her co-star had a very different pov of who she was. Unfortunately, she won't ever be able to tell her true story and who she was as a person.
I mean her diaries are available, they're a pretty good voice for her, since she wrote them!
@@AvaNightingale oh I didn't know that, I'll read them. thank you
PLEASE start a podcast istg I would listen to it NON STOP âš
this is so cool !! im actually focusing my art assignment around marilyn monroe
marilyn's life makes me so sad. she seemed like an incredibly kind, smart, funny person and the fact that she's become iconic mostly just because of her appearance/sexuality is terrible. having your nudes shared without your consent to thousands of people is absolutely horrifying. i hope she's resting easy now
I really hate the narrative that Marilyn couldnât act and she was simply playing herself as if comedy isnât a difficult medium form of acting and playing yourself by using developed acting techniques and masking that with your personality isnât difficult either. I feel bc of mediums like the academy awards and their flawed favoritism to certain roles and movies and the impact it had on our society/culture play a significant part to this (every-time someone does a role thereâs always a debate if it is and isnât âOscarâs worthyâ) plus Marilyn definitely showed her range through her comedy and with dramas like bus stop, donât bother to knock and the misfits, some of her classmates at the actors studio mentioned her readings of classic screenplays as impeccable and before she died (according to her close friends) she was recommending to return back to New York City to be more of a Broadway stage actress, itâs just unfortunate that she passed away right when the hays production code was ending
Also thank you for calling out method acting as a aspiring actor/filmmaker I was always thought of as method acting being the end all be all to being a 1000/10 actor until I got older, did more research and realize how toxic and dangerous it is, especially for actors and actresses already dealing with mental illness Konstantin Stanislavski hated Lee Strasbergâs method acting technique and much preferred/respected Stella Adler and Sanford Meisnerâs usage of his system
Be Kind Rewind has an amazing video on her last film that youâd probably like!
It's also difficult to show off your acting range when you're constantly being typecast as the same character over and over again. The same critique has been unfairly given to many actors and actresses over the years who get typecast, and it sucks, 'cause it's not their fault.
@@nataliep856 I did watches it and itâs one of my favorite videos from be kind rewind
@@Kevin-rg3yc Iâm so glad!!