Where 6 Metals Used For Electric Cars Come From | True Cost | Insider News
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- čas přidán 28. 04. 2024
- Your average EV has six times more mineral content than a petrol or diesel-powered vehicle - and all those metals need to be dug, scraped, blasted, or leached out of the earth. There is massive demand for batteries as countries eye up ambitious zero emissions targets. But what’s the cost?
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:59 - Minerals Found In EVs
02:01 - Lithium Mining In Chile And Bolivia
06:39 - Copper Mining
09:36 - Cobalt Mining In The Democratic Republic of Congo
16:31 - Nickel Mining In Indonesia
20:47 - Manganese Mining In Gabon
21:56 - Deep Sea Mining
26:56 - Graphite Mining In Sri Lanka
29:39 - EVs vs. Combustion Engine Vehicles
30:59 - Battery Recycling
32:49 - Conclusion
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#insidernews #mining #electriccars
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The True Cost Of Mining Electric Car Battery Metals | True Cost | Insider News
'Artisanal Mining' is one of the best "spins" I have ever come across.
Yeah like why use that word like that, it has different connotative now
All this is invisible to the “green “ lobby so it doesn’t actually exist.The amount of wasted money and environmental havoc these EV’s will cause will be immeasurable but totally invisible from your penthouse in DC.
You gotta play with words now to be able to continuously exploit something. Make it sound good, no one will bat an eye.
@@elric4242 I guess child exploitation for the virtue signaling of wealthy supercilious morons who love Joe,sounded a little harsh.
It’s only cobalt.These poor people,including women and children work for a paupers wage in extremely dangerous conditions to supply a necessary compound for primarily battery technology.All this needless,extremely dangerous work for what? To rid the earth of Co2 an essential gas whose increased atmospheric concentrations will cause some imaginary positive feedback loop which will destroy humans?
Someone needs to alert China,India and the entire developing world since they’re never going to play this childish game.
One thing this report leaves out is all the equipment used to mine and process are combustion engines and coal produced power plants. And it is coat prohibited to change any of this.
bonkers isnt it the whole thing is just bonkers
That's not the point. There will be less ICE vehicles in the street which reduces pollution.
@@frankreynolds9930The point is that the more things change, the more they stay the same. These mining practices are destructive to the environment, and can disrupt entire regions. As seen in this documentary. Is the trade off even worth it?
But hey, it's not your backyard! Out of sight, out of mind am I right?
@@LynxStarAuto yes it is. Very easy to research this btw
@@LynxStarAuto 100 percent!! Only reason their pushing EV is because someone is lining their pockets through the process guaranteed!! All mighty dollar controls it all they dont give a crap about the environment
In the end, nothing is done without costs. For any situation, there are no solutions, only tradeoffs.
This is the most accurate comment. 100% true and what is actually happening, just trade offs.
@@johnnewton3592 with an attitude of "as long as it's not in my backyard"! The exploitation of the poor countries does not bother anyone.
If oil comes out of the ground naturally how exactly is it bad if oil is spill on the ground?
@@mastercreamer1398 are you really that dim?
@@davidperry7128I’ve never had anyone answer it
A copper mine in northern Arizona leaches into the local stream; the fish cannot be eaten as they are toxic. Birds and goats will die if they drink much of it.
Mining is mining. It is dirty, uses lots of water and creates lots of waste. It was a problem long before EVs came on the scene, but now we say mining for lithium is so awful?!
If we single out lithium for EVs then we also need to get agitated over gold mining, tar sands (oil), bauxite mining (aluminium), phosphate mining, copper mining, coal mining and opencast iron mining.
Well said, those against EVs seem to have a memory block. Even compost something that most of us have bought, has depleted bog land an important carbon capture and resource against floods.
No one said that. Calm down. Saying one thing does not immediately disregard the other
Look at the big picture….Redwood Materials can recycle up to 96-98% of pure lithium of an old car battery=reduced future mining…
@@OM-bs7of erm, the video description literally makes the assertion and implication that batteries are 6x worse, when gasoline production has decades of various massive issues associated, both environmentally and economically. Its very much discarding how bad the pursuit of black gold has been all over the world
@@squashduos1258 Redwood Industries...
In minute @6:00 the guy says "que vengan ascinerando" which you translated roughly to "they should come to us with dialogue". That's not a bad translation but the language he uses expresses decades of frustration with companies that have rejected the dialogue previously.
electric cars pollution
He said sincerando which means they should be up front, sincere with them.
Sincere is the closest word to sincerando in English.
People often complain about lithium mines and damaging the Earth but the ratio of the area covered by lithium mines vs coal mines is the same as the the ratio of the state of Delaware to all of Canada, the USA and 1/2 of Mexico combined.
Power still comes from coal, even more than ever before EV's...many, MANY charging stations throughout the whole world use diesel to power the EV's....what was your point again?
@@rikomagic5186 Now wind and solar and renewables are far exceeding coal and diesel burning for electricity generation, in the US at least. The system is not perfect but far better than using an ICE vehicle. What is your point again?
@@LoneStarrZombies My point was, well, can you even read?
I said THE WORLD...
The problem with Americans is, they think they ARE the world.
Good to see your arrogance, you just made my point.
How fresh Mountain Dew is mined for our refreshment.
I've been saying "it's all natural" it's just not part of their branding
People are so blinded by the sexy selling points of EV and don't want to think about consequences of any kind.
It’s got electrolytes! ⚡️
@@Dudeguymansir good one
@@christerry1773 Or people burning millions barrels of oil every day, without thinking about consequences that we see every day. This one sided video full of lies and nonsense is very sad try to picture BEVs as something worse than ICE.
Uranium for the first atomic bomb used in the Manhattan project came from DRC.
Before batteries, Li was used in fusion bombs as Lithium Deuteride fuel. This is why Li was designated as a strategic mineral.
No it didn't. it came out of grand junction Colorado and one other Colorado city that was wiped off the map. Google it!
I asked a doctor friend of mine about what you said. Dr. Google told me you’re correct. Uranium came from the Belgian Congo ( old name) , Canada and the American west. I never knew that, I just assumed it was all from western mines.
@johnsord-xp3ij mines in Canada and Kazakhstan was not discovered by then. Also US had a Pt production capacity enough for 1 'fat man' every 2 months.
Li is a song by Nirvana, killer too if you ax me
Yup, pitchblende.....the same uranium ore was what Msr & Mme Curie first extracted Radium from...
That water looks so refreshing and tasty 😩
forbidden gatorade
Forbidden fanta 😂😂😂
So, you would rather see the water covered with black oil, birds and mammals dying covered with oil?
@@hokroegeroh shut up. It's not a choice between one or the other.
it is@@Floedekage
Old copper telephone cables can be replaced by optical fiber and the copper can be recycled.
Fantastic. Is there a point to the comment?
See nothing wrong with replacing copper with synthetic polymers?
Why would our government give a crap about efficiency when they spend 250 million to make an app? They literally could not care less! They’ll just spend 50 billion on newly mined copper. The liberals have unlimited funds… while Canadians take the next 100 years paying back all this Trudeau spending.
@elgoldstein3682 everything is bad if it's used on a huge scale. We should create alternatives not replacing
I hope we will use Petrol cars, Electric cars and Hydrogen cars at once, not replecing one another and maybe in the future there will be more fuels
@@emmanuelgoldstein3682 what is wrong with using copper?
Now wasn't that defunct copper mine there before EVs were even mass produced?
For sure, but EV's are going to drive up the demand for copper to many times the current levels, which means new mines and more destruction. Do the big companies care when there's so much potential money to be made? Probably not.
Its funny to see that they are focusing on EVs that has about 89 kg (176LBS) in them wail a normal house would has about 200 kg (439LBS) . Funny
@@tootallno "wail".... you mean "while"? Anyways, your argument is nonsense as expected by your "mistake" already
@@harrison00xXx What you mean??
@@tonyb3629 How much copper does an ev contain? 89 kg wail a normal house has 200 kg and we are increasing building too
Please also make a True Cost video about the petrol or diesel-powered vehicle and it should start with taking petroleum from underground, the extraction process, the processing, transporting it to petrol pumps, and burning it to the atmosphere, and what happens to it once it is in the atmosphere, and also whether there is an option to recycle the burnt petrol...
Are you disturbed by the fact "green" EVs aren't actually that green? For the first 60,000 miles or so an EV isn't actually greener than an ICE given the amount of pollution caused to build it in the first place.
@@putler965 that's wrong news buddy. The amount of rigging required to get petroleum from the ocean (damages the ocean, uses a ton of unclean energy), then the amount of energy required to refine petroleum into petrol, and the amount of energy required to transport this petrol to petrol pumps, and of course the pollution caused when they are eventually burned...all this combined is much higher than manufacturing batteries which can even be recycled after they degrade. People only check the pollution caused when driving a car, but that is not the only pollution. I hope you get what I said.
@@abhijith_mb Perhaps you can explain that to the engineers and physicists who determined you have to drive at least 60,000 miles to offset the carbon emissions involved in digging minerals out of the earth before an EV is "greener" than an ICE. If an EV is powered using electricity from fossil fuels, it could take as long as 99,419 miles to become "greener".
You have to drive 100,000 miles to really get the full benefit, and even then an EV is only about 25-30% greener than an ICE. This is from VDI Gesellschaft Fahrzeug, a German engineering association. But what do they know? I'm sure you know more.
@@putler965 yeah
@@putler965 No one "determined" anything like that. You are likely quoting FUD you do not even understand?
About the extinction of the polymetallic fields, would it not be possible to work inward from the edges, drop less valuable stones (maybe leftovers from quarries) in the sectors that have already been mined, and then wait for silts to settle and animals to migrate to the new stone fields before continuing to mine? It’s not a perfect solution but loss of habitat can probably be mitigated by providing new habitats elsewhere while we harvest the stuff useful to us. If the polymetallics are also being utilized by the ecosystems as a nutrient, the miners could just yeet a certain percentage over the edge to help reseed the new environments.
This is far from a perfect solution and I would like to hear some other peoples’ thoughts on the matter. Always good to learn.
The problem is you have to force companies to do that, and it's so specific and niche it'll be really difficult to get enough support to overcome their lobbying capital.
A little voice in my head is saying, "we'll be sorry!"
Such a nice way of thinking. a caring view on how we could mine these with reduced harm to the inhabitants. I dont think it would work like that but I commend your caring attitude.
that would require the use of MILLIONS of gallons of fossil fuel to transport that material. sort of defeats the purpose of your EV pipedream.
And what is your estimate of the gallons of fuel burned in drilling/mining and transporting of fossil fuels then?
People make it out as if coal, oil and gas just magically appears out of thin air and never impacts anyone, either when extracted or burned.
Yeah you gotta love the anti-EV people all of the sudden pretending like they care about some kid in a mine.. yet totally glossing over the millions of civilians dead, trillions of tax dollars spent, countless soldiers dead or mangled.. all in the past 20 or so yrs, and only for about 300k barrels of oil a day from Iraq (we import over 8million barrels a day)
literaly no one is acting you saw all during this video its oil and ICE that are actually doing the job! did you see any EVs in the mining anywhere!? oil and gas and ICE makes everything possible from cars to trucks, aircrafts, trains, rockets, ships...... again what are the usless EVs doing?
with oil and gas we make agriculture, build roads, bridges, the grid, water supply..... even for mining, internet, constructio, renewables also are only possible because of oil. there are literaly millions of oil byproducts! the plastics for your EVs and insulation of EV charger cables..... car tires, medical equipments....
oil and gas literaly saved the humans during covid-19 period with the billions of masks and test quits and medical equipments and their delivieries all around the world..... again no EVs ever helped or contributed.
flying from new york to sydney or all around the world, eating seasonal fruits or food from the other end of the country still in good condition..... its all possible with oil and gas and ICE. your starlink is all oil and gas too.
Lithium mining looks like it’s going to direct extraction from brines. The Salton Sea in California is loaded with brines a mile down and they are already extracting the brines for power generation. So a plant is being readied that will extract the lithium then what’s left is to be pumped back into the ground.
And how much fossil fuels will be used to produce and maintain this massive project…..it ALWAYS comes back to fossil fuels
@@theword2011 Probably not much since there is a power plant that uses the heat of the planet to produce energy.
I believe they started lithium extraction from the salton sea a month or two ago.
Apparently a new and profitable source of CU is the charging stations. Thieves are cutting off the charging cables for the CU.
As our US dollar lost more and of its value, and families started really feeling the pinch, I knew that was coming. I was stationed in the Philippines back in the 70s. We used these huge generators on wheels to power up the big C141 & C5 military cargo jets. As soon as the sun went down, people would come out of the jungle with machetes and hacked the big cables off the generators, 3x's the size of EV's. If you got in their way, you were a dead man. For the locals that copper translated into a lot of money. We only stopped it when we placed armed guards with machine guns around each aircraft. As an aircraft technician, I was relieved when I was rotated to the night shift.
@@moepow8160 Sad thing..... first doing bad things such as supporting the oppression of the people, then arguing about the oppressed people stealing copper to have money for food.
@@harrison00xXx only bad if you’re a commie
Maybe retractable cables that only come out when an ID (through an app or otherwise) has been provided to the station. It’s not an easy problem, but making selling cut EV charging cables illegal and cutting off the market is a good start
@@h20dancing18 what happens when legitimate people show up, key in their codes to lower these charging cables which are now much longer, and while you wait your 30 to 40 minutes to charge your EV, a carload of thieves show up and threaten your life while they take those cables - what are you going to do put armed guards at every EV charging location?
Source on NMC being the most popular chemistry?
Cobalt is used in conventional vehicles through the oil refining industry, as a catalyst. I wouldn't be surprised it's directly in the cars through alloys too.
Apparently a ton is "used" in oil refining but very little is lost, on the order of one pound cobalt for 6M miles of driving.
Cobalt steels are mainly used in cutting/machine tools, that would include automotive *production* but tiny amounts per car.
Regardless BEVs are vastly 'cleaner' even without CO2 considerations. (I don't fear CO2)
@@Mrbfgray yes, being used as a catalyst, the majority is recovered but they still need to inject fresh one for the part that went down the drain.
@@FlorentHenry Almost trivial amount lost but BEV batts will be recycled endlessly also with tiny losses.
yeah and that same fuel is used in cars and trucks to mine and transport raw materials all around the world, the fuel is used to launch rockets, to power ships, aircarfts, agriculture, construction..... build roads, power stations, the grid.... what are the usless EVs doing!?
@@FlorentHenry big loll!!! without oil none of those EVs would have ever existed!
Also people assume that there will be no alternative to lithium, and yet sodium batteries are on the verge. Being fine alternatives for LFP batteries. All in all lithium mining is still miniscule compared to other mining processes.
If you think that then you was obviously ignoring the issues🤦🏾♀️. Use your damn brain for once
The problem that's being pointed out is that you have a lot of consequences as a result of the craze of EV that largely want to be ignored. A climate activist wants all things oil ended, but is ok with all this?
@@christerry1773climate scientist here, climate issues are World Wide, mining issues are localized. Twenty years from now the mines will have been shuttered and the people moved on, but the climate will have warmed by more than two degrees with the potential to disrupt food production in whole countries. Ocean waters will have risen enough to displace millions.
This is not to say that EVs will save us from this, but at the moment they help to pave the way forward to electric transport and renewable energy production. Aircraft and ships are large contributors to the CO2 output and very little is being done about them. Ships could at least go nuclear, but hydrogen or electric aircraft of any normal size are impractical so far.
One minor point to note, it is already cost effective to mine lithium batteries.
key word: "still". Not for long.
They said in the video, it's just how much mileage you get out of the battery as to which minerals are in it.
To whom it may concern to Insider News: Could you do a segment video about manufacturing EVs with and without Petroleum Materials/Products if possible? Thank you!
Seems like steel and aluminium used in all vehicles grows on trees and needs no mining i guess
I presume you're joking to make the point that EVERYTHING nonmetallic on an EV is petroleum based, meaning the entire interior and probably 1/3 of the exterior... and ALL the materials used in the infrastructure to manufacture one of those propaganda elite socialist vehicles uses massive amounts of fossil fuels / petroleum products to make it happen... what people don't get is this isn't a reliable fossil fuel vs inferior renewable energy sources... this is about OVERPOPULATION, MASS CONSUMERISM of frivolous and unnecessary products, and human comfort... Capitalism does create advancements in technology, but it also is very wasteful in making useless products just for profit...
every single piece of a crappy Tesla is made from fossil fuels. really bizarre to think you are saving the planet by buying brand new $50,000 cars. i could buy a $1500 used pontiac and be far far cleaner than any Tesla for a decade since its already been built. EVs will end up at landfills, since only 1.2% of the cars on the road are EV. imagine 90x that amount what a terrible environmental disaster that will be globally.
@@dtibor5903 steel and aluminium are recycled and little mined (in relative terms), but battery metals are almost mined - very little recycled if any yet, at least
The thing about transitioning from one energy source to another is you have to use the old one to bring in the new. Who could have guessed?
More and more manufacturing is done with robots running on electricity and for a company like Tesla, they ensure that is as much renewable energy as possible.
It will take a new type of corporation & CEO to ensure our great grandchildren have a habitable planet. We can make 'petroleum products' without burning the stuff and dumping the pollution in the atmospheree. In fact if we stop burning it, there's more for those other 'products' like plastics chems etc.
Let's see the video on the cost of extracting oil. A few pictures of the oil sands in Alberta, Canada show the appalling costs.
An have of the middle east developing asthma because of flaring.
There's millions of gallons of crude oil leaking daily in the Gulf of Mexico but no one cares
Exactly.
I think the best course of action is to reduce our reliance on individual transportation so we aren't trying to pump out millions of EVs with massive batteries that will have to be recycled in a decade. But go on, virtue signal about how you've chosen the "superior option."
@@vyvianalcott1681Given how fast ev has grown in recent years, recycling batteries would also have grown much more in a decade.
Great. Now do oil.
$300 USD a week in DRC must be like $3000 a week in the US.
not quite since the cost of living is ever skyrocketing and keep in mind the gentleman said he has 8 kids so a lion's share of that clearly gets swallowed up in paying for their education. little is left to cater for other needs.
Mark Mariano is my hero lmao he seems like a lot of fun
One of these days people will realise that there simply is no perfect solution for mechanised individual transport… we really need to look more at improving public transit and active travel, while retaining the second-best option (cars) for those without access, such as rural populations
Even in rural areas there is probably a great opportunity for someone to institute a call in transportation model that moves food and parts and picks up people and reduces the number of vehicles on the road if one vehicle can do the same job as 25 or more vehicles.
try telling that to some of the extreme activists. They're deflect from every point being made!
@@kerrryschultz2904It already exists. Uber and lyft, and there absolutely non-existent is rural areas. Rural people need vehicles, electric or not.
Is there a "True cost" video like this for gas cars ?
no because youre only supposed to think about the environment when its something that threatens the petrochemical capitalists
It is pretty well established that they are terrible for the environment. What company is promoting them in the same way as electric?
@@billhacks why not ?
Of course there is not. They are EV haters without common sense
@@billhacks Why are they so bad for the environment? Because they produce co2? What is the average lifespan of these battery operated cars? Ten years tops? My truck was built 24 years ago. Has not needed a giant mine in Africa for a single part because it has a small lead acid battery to start the motor. The catalytic converter reduces emissions to basically just co2 and nitrogen which are harmless to the environment. One paint job for 24 years. One set of seats for 24 years. It is made mostly of steel which is highly available and recyclable. It doesn't weigh a million pounds like the battery operated trucks so they damage it does to the roads and bridges is way less. Battery powered car owners are delusional to think they are somehow doing the earth a favor by using them instead of regular cars.
Technically he's right about the sea nodule extraction producing no environmental damage from tailings, at least on the ocean, since the nodules will be refined elsewhere, however the additional mud extracted in the process has to be dumped somewhere, surely right behind the harvester as it goes along, but that mud wont just sit idly on the seafloor, it'll be deposited in a silty cloud that could have significant effects on the sealife there.
Question about the lithium production:
If they have to solve the salts/minerals including the lithium in water, why don't they use a pipeline or tankers to freight it in a decent contraition as fluid? The transportation of fluids is pretty easy. If they build up a direktly useable conentration of minerals, the following production steps can be reduced.
I found this to be balanced reporting without taking a yay/nay stance on the issues. Congratulations.
It's a lie by omission. Where did they compare the energy costs of producing and recycling ICE vehicles?
Pretty unbalanced and missing comparisons, but if you really think EVs charged by about 70-90% coal power is less harmful than a ICE car, i cant help you anyways
@@harrison00xXx especially since transporting electricity is a lot less efficient than gas or oil
You can only be talking about India and China as the whole of Europe is 40% wind and at most 5% coal. The UK will not use coal at all in 2025. Even the US is less than 50% coal. So where are you getting those figures from and can you substantiate the lies you tell. You need to get some proper education my friend@@harrison00xXx
@@The_Ballo video is about mining metals, if you want comparison between vehicle production, go and watch video about cars.
Notice how this channel just repeatedly says “experts agree” without saying who really said that.
I hate that crap.
Great program you have these days. I watched from Moscow yesterday and today from St. Petersburg. amazing
Some Tesla facts: many of the batteries they use are LFP batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate), no cobalt, They are moving to 48v architecture that reduces the copper use by 75% J.B.Straubel, a former Tesla executive founded Redwood Industries which recycles lithium batteries, it is thought that in a few years there will be no need to mine more battery materials as ~95% of high quality materials can be extracted from old batteries.
Trick question: Which of the 3 basic EV drivetrains (BEV vs PHEV vs HFCEV) offers the most benefits, applications and potential to reduce fuel/energy consumption, emissions AND insane traffic? Your answer here __ __ __ __.
WRONG! The correct answer is PHEV plug-in hybrid.
PHEV tech could serve 65% future EV needs.
BEV serves the remainder in lightweight and short-distance travel/transport needs.
The ICEngine of a PHEV+H drivetrain (combustible hydrogen) stores at much lower pressures
in smaller/safer tanks and can deliver at least twice the equivalent MPG possible with hydrogen fuel cell EVs. PHEV tech is especially applicable to long-haul freight truck fleets. The equitable distribution of battery and hydrogen resources in PHEV tech is far more ideal in PHEV tech which incentivizes driving less whereby local economies grow and more needs can be met without having to drive a god damn car everywhere all the time.
the recycling rate on lithium is already close to 100%, and that with batteries who's production didn't had recycling in mind👍
That is do special about EV's. All the energy storing / producing materials can stay in an infinite cycle, while each drop of oil is burned and gone, never to be seen again.
@@artlewellan2294 anyone advocating for hydrogen was asleep in physics class and chemistry as well. Totally hopeless and going nowhere yet you think it’s a big hope.
😂😂 a Tesla fan boy defending his autistic messiah with hair plugs 🔌. I despise tesla drivers and tesla. I LOVE MY V8 Engines 😊😊😊😊😊. I drive fast for fun, I Rev my Engine for FUN. Have fun in your sterile EV life. Haha, u are owned by Tesla, good luck finding a dealer that will fix your car within a month, and get ready to spend some MONEY 😅😅😅
@@artlewellan2294 Wow - what have you been smoking? None of this is remotely close to reality. A Tesla model 3 has a lifetime environmental impact (12 years for the sake of the benchmark) which is 30% lower than a Toyota Corolla hybrid, and 40% lower than a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (if both the Tesla and the Outlander are charged 100% from the grid in the UK).
Combustible hydrogen is not only less efficient than a fuel cell it is also less efficient than a combustion petrol engine. If you generate hydrogen from electricity via electrolisis then use that hydrogen in a fuel cell vehicle you only get 40% of the distance per kwh you used to make the hydrogen in the first place vs putting it directly into a BEV, you only get 30% of the distance if you use that hydrogen in a hydrogen combustion vehicle.
Like the late, great Meatloaf once said: Nothing's ever worth the cost.
Everything has a consequence.
You cannot have yin without the yang.
Thats missing in this video.... too much praising EVs and not any fair comparisons or proper data taken
@@harrison00xXx Yes, see my other comment about how misleading and bias this study is, omitting certain data and not showing the full picture. It is as bad as Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth which suckered everyone.
The chickens have come home to roost.
All good things come to an end.
The party is over.
@@harrison00xXx could using bio-material, like dried wood or algae, burnt in cars to drive sterling generators suffice for hybrid cars
@@taiwoolaleye6333 ah, sure, the average EV owner would like to use a woodgas burner at the back of their car.
EV owners dont do it for the environment, they are doing it for the sake of „performance“.
I think EV owners are wrong regarding to performance since they only care about acceleration and how fine you can control throttle, meanwhile they forgot about the overall driving experience with a HEAVY vehicle.
I have 3 cars… 1996 Golf 3 Cabrio 1100kg 140HP, 1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse 1390kg 214HP and a 2010 Subaru Impreza Diesel, 1550kg 180 HP.
The most fun vehicle regarding to real performance is the lightest one, even 1400 vs 1550kg are a noticeable difference, but the light 140HP vehicle is even more fun despite boring FWD and no power exits from corners possible than my stronger but heavier vehicles
For long trips i prefer the smoother, heavier ones, sure, but i hardly enjoyed any EV i was driving… they are stiff, heavy and dont like corners are all
Get up to date with your information. Lithium is found all over the world and 40% is mined in Australia.
There is a lot of noise about mining for EV battery material but it is miniscule compared with iron Ore.
Last year just 97,000 tonnes of lithium was mined but 3,040,000,0000 tonnes of Iron Ore and no one is complaining about that, why is that ?
iron can be recylced over and over again. Lithium is classified as finite mineral that can't be recycled together with graphite. The mineral content in iron ore is about 400-500kg/ton. That's very high compared to copper where you only can get today 7-8kg / ton steady declining,
@@MikeInc79 Lithium is everywhere, it's even in every cup of sea water. the levels of concentration decides wether it is profitable to extract. Currently there is a Geothermal company, near me, that is extracting Lithium from hot rocks in Cornwall.
All materials are finite here on Earth, even Iron but thankfully most are recyclable unlike oil products which are a burn once product and luckily for the planet, we are not making anymore, that process died with the emergence of a fungus that breaks wood down
@@MikeInc79 if Iron is so recycled over and over and over again as you mention, then WHY it STILL gets mined 313 402 times more than Lithium. Is that because most iron is still in use, or because actual recover/recycle rate is not 100?
PS! I dont give a crap about EV-s, im in battery storage, thats why it ammuse me how little people know if they read only news headline not whats inside!
Hey Einstein. Iron/steel can be recycled over and over again. Lithium is as I said before a finite mineral that can't be recycled. There's no value for used lithium. Much steel is "stuck" in constructions, cars, busses well everything that's made of steel and contains steel. That's why you must you must mine iron ore. You can never recycle 100% of anything. There is something something from melting metalls called slagg. Have you heard about that before?
@@ThomasRaud
@@MikeInc79 That does not hold up, lithium can be extracted from recycled batteries. While not all of it is currently economical to recover, a majority is.
People need to realise that copper is and has been used for wiring in houses and other buildings and cables used to deliver power across countries. This is not an EV problem, this is a modern consumption problem.
This is *also* an EV problem. Just a part of it all, not an exception to the rule. And that will not change.
@@Mediamarked agreed. My point is that this video is all about how bad EVs are. Everything in this video is also a problem for other parts of our lives. Eg grid scale batteries and solar batteries use massive amounts of lithium. The grid, houses, regular ice vehicles, planes, buses, trains all use copper. Our laptops, phones, toys, fossil fuel processing etc all use cobalt. The premise of the video is that this is an ev problem. Nope it's a humanity and consumption problem.
Imagine someone would find polymetals in Washington and would extract them and blow tons of dust per hour all over the city. What do you think, would that impact the local species ?
Wrong, some 980mp steel used in ICE gasoline & diesel powered cars, an alloy containing cobalt, vanadium, chromium, silicon, molybdenum. Jet engines used in most airline planes have turbine blades of made of nickel cobalt super alloys that are heat creep resistant when spinning that fast while hot without stretching & maintaining their mechanical strength. So cobalt not just used in lithium ion batteries. Cobalt also used in electroplating for its attractive appearance, hardness, and resistance to oxidation in order to prevent corrosion. In non battery electric marine applications alloys of cobalt, copper & nickel are used for salt water corrosion resistant pipes & parts.
cobalt is also used for refining fossil fuels.
You're not getting the bigger point here.
@@christerry1773 very few of them do. Blind to reality.
At 15:44 you state that internal combustion engine vehicles dont use any. This is false as refining oil uses cobalt as a catalyst
Furthermore there's cobalt in valves, valve seats, pistons, conrods, cranks, transmission gears and the entire structural stell of the vehicle.
plus the obvious fact that one could just use lithium iron phospate or sodium ion batteries. both of which don't contain cobalt.
"Could just use" Sodium Ion? Link to a reputable manufacturer and non-prototype, vehicular use please. If you want to state facts, do so.
Also, LiFePo cells are great, if you can miss the output that LiPo and LiIon give. Which for EV's... Well, does not work greatly.
The fact that ICE uses cobalt, does that make it okay for EV? Or is it just as bad *(which it is), and just a form of "but they are doing it TOO!"?
The bigger point here is that the minerals used for EV's are far greater than that of Petroleum.
@@Mediamarked well said. I'm suprised the MuskRat didn't bring up "solid state batteries" that will be available next year.... 90 years in a row!
You must be referring to Toyota
So electric cars are responsible for all the environmental damaged caused for an old and closed cooper mine? Great journalism!
hahahah!!! pulling things from underground and putting them on the ground is not environmental damage. Its environmental relocation
Cobalt and nickel and copper are used for other products as well! Not just for car batteries! But nobody complains about that 🤣. For example cobalt is used in drill bits and copper is used for piping and heat pumps!
@@surecom12 My cobalt drill bits will likely outlast your 8,500 pound rivian "truck"
@@user-un4mu1hj5o mine didn't!
Very good. A comparison of the effects of EV against the petroleum industry. Minus the petroleum industry.
None of these ever talk about the damage petroleum extraction causes. Metals are also recyclable
@@sethl3702which one used during the whole production and during the charging of EV
This really didn't change my mind about getting an electric car.
It wasn't supposed to.
I dont think it was intended to change your mind. Perhaps they will do a film on the appalling devastation cause by oil extraction.
@@paulmerron3947 what?? its way less than electric..... I'll never buy an electric vehicle, I'll buy a diesel before anything electric...... in the few years we have had electric/battery powered vehicles have led to more destruction than the 100+ years of oil.....
@@bobbertee5945 Have you been living on a different planet perhaps. You honestly believe that the pollution caused by mining the materials for EVs is a greater problem than the filthy pollution and major tragedies caused by the fossil fuel industry, all the oil tanker spills around the world devastating whole ecosystems. Exon Valdez for example or the Deepwater horizon disaster. What about the total destruction of parts of northern America in the tar sands. All the people around the world killed in wars about oil. All the people who have died prematurely from respiratory problems cause by pollution from ICE vehicles. Add to all of that mayhem the the amount of Co2 that is being added to our atmosphere from burning fossil fuels contributing to the change in world wide climate. And what are people going to do when they can no longer live where they do now.
EVs are by no means perfect, they have their issues. The mining of lithium, cobalt and copper isn't a new thing, it didnt start with EVs, we have been mining and using these materials for years, we just need to mine more now. But the difference is that the materials used in EVs is and will be recycled and used again, oil is just burned once. Cobalt has been used by the fossil fuel industry for many decades, in millions of tons, to remove sulphur from ICE fuels.
You need to wake up, open your eyes and really see what is going on with an industry that is seeing the end and desperately trying to hang on to its existence by false propaganda about EVs, and unfortunately you seem to have fallen under their spell.
Perhaps you would like to state some of the destruction caused by the manufacture and use of EVs because EVs causing destruction is a new one to me.
@@bobbertee5945 So true. Electric vehicles are heavier, accelerate faster, and tare up roads faster. Just wait till half the population has them and see how fast the roads get torn up and cause not only annoyance but costly tax dollar increases and pollution for all the road base that has oil in it. This move in my opinion to battery powered cars is a joke and in 30 to 50 years from now show to be a dead end. In fact, I think most of us will be dead when our children learn that this solution was way worse than the problem that we are facing right now.
Perfect is the enemy of good is an aphorism which means insistence on perfection often prevents implementation of good improvements. Extended Range Electric Vehicles or EREVs are vehicles in which propulsion power is provided almost entirely by an electric unit. They are additionally equipped with a small internal combustion engine to generate additional energy. These types of cars are often seen as series hybrids with a much larger battery. With evolving Sodium Ion technologies, EREVs would be a great deployment. No Cobalt, Lithium, Nickel et al. Also, soon motors are starting to be deployed without rare earth elements.
"Lastly, 48 volt EV architecture reduces copper by 70%"
Nonsense, compared to what? Also, the motors still need a huge amout of Cu, so i dont get your "argument" at all. Seems for me you are just a EV fanboy trying to argue for your fanboyism
The term you're looking for is PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle). EREV is a GM marketing term (like 'scrubbing bubbles'... not a technical term).
@@harrison00xXx If you double the voltage the amerage is cut in half and yet yields the same power output. By increasing voltage considerably the size of the conductor is reduced.
@@kerrryschultz2904 and yet you need the same amount of copper (longer but thinner winding)
@@harrison00xXx You are not exactly correct. If you compare the amount of copper in an electric motor that uses 120 volts AC to an electric motor that uses 2800 volts AC there is very little change in the amount of copper. And yet the power potential is increased many times. In the reference to using 48 volts I am guessing that it was compared to a 12 volt DC system which would require huge amounts of copper to do the same work as a 48 volt system because the increase in amperage. I doubt any car manufacturer would use such a low voltage system and is more likely in the 120 volts or high DC.
Everything is bad if it's used on a huge scale. We should create alternatives not replacing
I hope we will use Petrol cars, Electric cars and Hydrogen cars at once, not replacing one another and maybe in the future there will be more fuels
Beyond electrical cars I still do not understand why there is no country that says ok the car engines may be 1.6 or 1.8L at largest and need to run at least 20km on 1L of pertrol/gazoil? This would massively help. And there are still 1.6l engines that go well over 200km/h which is hardly anywhere allowed and can only be driven on some freeways. It does boost as well the technology for better, cheaper, fast and low feul consumption.
"Conventional combustion engine vehicles don't use any. (cobalt)". Except that they do use it in the production of gasoline and diesel fuel through the desulfurization of crude oil which means they will likely be using more of it than battery vehicles especially since EV's appear to be moving toward zero cobalt.
they use much less than needed for EV battery production, just dont be silly
@@harrison00xXx They do use less but cobalt is a passing phase for EV batteries. There are already millions that don't use it. To be fair though, it is fairly easily recycled whether it's used in oil refining or batteries.
Do they require those minerals to actually drive on the road? No. Do EV's require those elements to operate on the road? Yes.
@@christerry1773 😉I'd like to see you operate your ICE with an empty fuel tank. So yes they do require cobalt to operate on the road. Lithium maybe not so much but we already have some vehicles being made with sodium ion batteries and the new chemistries keep coming. Regardless, minerals are not the issue some would have you believe they are. As with many things humans do, it's not that we can't get them or can't get them ethically. It's that we don't for whatever reason. But if you want to talk about ethical lets talk about how ethical oil is both from a geopolitical and environmental perspective.
@@blackwind743 not an issue?? Lol that’s what people would have said about oil a century ago. The bigger point here is the message being sold on EV is don’t worry about what it takes, don’t worry about environment impacts as a result of it. Just ignore all that and believe components just fall from the sky. Just because the bigger in the end is what matters, don’t ignore the consequences and that’s what’s happening
Working from home can potentially reduce use of vehicles of all types. The Covid pandemic has shown that working from home is more practical than previously thought.
Smart answer. By eliminating or considerably reducing by smart application is very helpful for the planet.
Commercial Real Estate owners who are losing $$$ want the old way back. They are often first in jumping on the EV charging station bandwagon -despite no one being in the building.
Question everything
I won't be buying an electric car.
@@nickbourne3202 You are truly mssing out on a great experience
These metals used for car batteries might be no longer used that it might effect our beautiful environment .I think it is better to find other useful things that might be helpful to keep the world safe and for new generation in the future.
That sea floor mowing is a ecological death sentence. Especially if it's scaled up, trowling already devastated so many habitats.
We need more plug in hybrids, and diesel electric systems for heavy equipment. Leverage the strengths of petroleum while we still can, and make the leap to full electric that much smaller.
Stretch the battery resources for where they are really needed, most folks only drive a few km a day so if they can charge at home or work a PHEV makes the most environmental sense since they will almost never use fuel until they have a long shopping day or the infrequent road trip. No need hoard batteries for those rare occurrences, if they have a marathon commute or live in an apartment an HEV with a good fuel economy will help stretch battery resources.
Yeah, instead of this it seems we are pushing so hard for huge suv EV's and companies continue to push the range further and further. Then you have the hummer and certain Tesla's and rivians that utilizes enough battery materials for 20 reasonable EV's. I'm sure there are loads of people driving extended range electric vehicles that have the capacity of 300+ miles, but they are making a 20 mile commute round-trip. We need more electric vehicles with small batteries that can be plugged in, and a small supplemental generator.
PHEV is the optimal technology, period. There is simply no need for a 300 mile EV when you could instead have a 50 mile PHEV with a small range extender for the rare occasion it becomes necessary. Bonus: The PHEV also works in winter.
Chinese BEV works in Winter. It is their regulation to pass winter test. @@N20Joe
More diesel electric for heavy equipment, how is that better than a straight diesel drive?
Electrolysis graphic has the electrodes marked incorrectly!!!
One thing that is often overlooked when considering the negative effects of mineral mining is the idea of producing more efficient electric vehicles in order to reduce demand for precious metals in addition to recycling old batteries. Consumers and manufacturers alike tend to se the switch from gas to electric as a new lease on power usage that allows them to have frivolous ( although admittedly very fun) amounts of power in commuter vehicles. If we are really trying to turn over a new leaf, we need to build highly efficient vehicles regardless of the propulsion system(s). Also, the ford lightning is an abomination
I guess one should go for low end electric cars that use Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries like Tesla RWD / standard range models. As a bonus this type of battery also last longer.
Cobalt is used in the refinery process. And not being used in the dominant chemistry lfp. Shall we start talking about the horrors oil has produces. Perfect will always get in the way of better, If your bleading waiting for a tourniquet, instead of using a belt will get you killed.
A lesser evil does not make it good, instead of focusing on one horror, why not talk about both. Both ICE and EVs are killing the planet, if you like it or not.
@@Mediamarked very true what's your solution? Should oppress people into submission?
Well both have issues, but there seems to be much more EV hate than ICE hate. I wonder why if its more friendly overall to the environment. EV battery production is also constantly evolving with new and better technologies that use less of the bad stuff. Oil is oil and wont improve.@@Mediamarked
Well some facts here are wrong for example Combustion Cars use Cobalt either for refining their fuel in the first place or in the Particulate Filters. After all these mines diden't just pop up for electric cars they did increase activity. most of these minerals can be recycled where most of petroleum products are burned once while still making a big lasting mess.
Yeah, exactly. Recycling the batteris for 10x the cost of a new one.wich means it will never be done. Hence the mess is still far greater from evs.
they didnt get the facts wrong they talked about the cars production and not everything included for the car and its not ICE fault where we are right now it is the greed of the Human nature at its fault. We could have produced much more nature friendly ICE but money is more important than nature.
@aamaraamar157 ICE vehicles has reached its peak. There is not env friendly ice.
@@frankreynolds9930 hmm i dont think they reached their peak and they still needed in other Areas. Yes they are not ver env friendly but we could have reduced the damage from ICE much earlier
@@aamaraamar157 They definitely have. ICE is bound by laws of thermodynamics and cant only be around 30% efficient. F1 cars with hybird engine are at max 50% efficient. EV are already almost 90%.
These raw materials are used in all electronics and not just ev. In near future, better more environment friendly batteries will be developed.
Fun Fact: There is not a single form of "clean, renewable" energy that can be produced without using petroleum and its byproducts. Not one.
Many new EV batteries don't use Nickel or Cobalt, Tesla are using cobalt-free iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries for most new vehicles.
Approximately 95 percent of a lithium-ion battery can be recycled into new batteries at end of life, so due to the size use of EV battery packs and how much cheaper that will be than mining, companies are changing their own batteries it makes sense to use that returned lithium to create new batteries.
Copper is going to be mined with or without EVs
Eventually, electric cars' main materials will be recycled reducing the demand for these materials.
Companies such as Redwood Materials have the capability and are building the capacity to answer the demand of recycling all battery materials.
Currently, ICE vehicles have more than 50% of recycling rate. EVs will have more than 80% and their batteries more than 95% recycling materials.
That's right. Because all the minerals, metals and materials to manufacture internal combustion engine cars grow on trees. :)
Nobody is claiming that ICE vehicles are saving the world though , unlike EVs.
Yeah, aluminium and iron, its so rare... just dont talk if you have no clue
@@mgcarmkm4520 ask those who live in major capital cities about their air quality. It must be so "healthy" to inhale carbon dioxide all day every day. Just keep burning oil to turn wheels if you are ok with supporting foreign oil and all the wars that are fought over it world wide. EVs are better and there is more materials to build their batteries than you can ever imagine. Scarcity mentality that is imposed on all of us drives the economy.
@@harrison00xXx even bicycle has more materials than just iron and aluminium. Is that what you ride? A bicycle? There is hardly any EV batteries to be recycled at this stage as they trickle down through different use cases. After 20 years in EV they already are sought after in classic car conversions and then they get to be used as home solar energy storage. After around 30 years over 95% of their materials will be recycled and turned into even higher energy density batteries. Their minerals will get even more purified during recycling process increasing their energy density. Can you recycle petrol or diesel after it has been burned?
@@RadoTrenciansky And no, you can not recycle over 95%, maybe from some specific elements but not the entire battery to 95%+, but in general its pretty advanced nowadays, yes.
The real issue with recycling... additional harmful chemicals are involved, and you may guessed it the byproduct of the recycling process also ends up in a ecological mess if the released water from the recycling process is not treated and filtered properly, and then the filters end up in a ecological mess to recycle/clean/bury. Where heavy usage of chemicals is involved, there will be sooner or later aftereffects we dont want. I would rather choose CO2 and burning gas/oil/coal and planting trees instead of building cities, artificial nonsense everywhere and no way to let nature "breathe".
We can not fix the ecological crysis with EVs and banning ICE vehicles, the real issues are more systematic, depending on greedy elitarian people and their higher profit goals every new year.
And yes, you can reverse/recycle burned diesel/petrol... its called e-fuels and with very much energy input you can make out of CO2 and other stuff fuel without releasing additional CO2 (except you think about the fact the energy for e-fuels comes from coal plants mostly, which is a fact...)
Also, we dont even have to do anything to reverse this process... nature by itself consumes CO2 and even converts other more harmful exhaust gasses to CO2, just slower than a catalysator or DPF.
Im btw also riding a regular bicycle, yes, but do you really mind now basics such as sealings, tires, other materials in disc brakes etc? At this point we could also argue EVs need oil since the gearings need lubrication.
Also a offroad e-scooter which fits in my car (a perfect combo btw as hobbyist wildlife photographer)
What they dont mention, is this push for EV's is motivating battery manafacturing companies and car manafacturing companies, to fund and research alternatives to current battery technology. Battery technologies that's also used in our smart watches, tablets, phones, laptops, power tools, TV remotes, etc. Without the sudden increase of demand for batteries we would continue to be dependent on lithium in the longrun and battery manafacturing companies wouldn't spend the time and money to research alternatives to lithium prolonging the harm caused by extraction and processing of lithium.
Aren't we still dependent on it though? It is possible that research will have another lithium-like breakthrough. But that new tech will need to be available on the same scale. Not many elements are as energy dense as lithium, and lithium is the most efficient at the moment. Uphill battles aren't won by wishfull thinking alone, keep the reality in mind that research does not equate to "new tech incoming in 3. 2. 1...."
@@Mediamarked If ya actually looked into it, and bothered to understand the issue and actually understand how these things work. Then you'd realize once companies, universities, etc. get funding things happen. Alot of people already have ideas, but require funding to test and impliment those idea, which lead to competitors trying to improve on those idea or find better alternatives, overcome engineering difficulties. They discover the bennifits, or downfalls of these idea, leading to better idea's. Then it takes manafacturing tooling to get developed, new supply lines, Distrobution lines have to be setup. Consumers have to adopt these "new" ideas. Which leads to further innovations, reduction is manafacturing costs bringing down the costs to consumers. Just think when cars were first invented and manafactured. Going from horse and carriage. No roads, No gas stations. No infractructure. People would have said the same thing back then about cars/trucks as fools say about electric cars/trucks now. People who just consume and dont understand these process of technological innovation sit back and bicker instead of trying to understand or forsee how inovations and engineering solutions that currently make it sound like a bad idea will in time be overcome. Do the research. Lots of Idea's are currenty being developed thanks to this move to force companies to start switching to EV's. now the current timeline given by government is.... unrealistic but a good move in the right direction. But thanks to the push many alternatives to lithium are currently in the testing phase with promising results. Longer lasting, faster charging, lower risk of explosion, made from recyclable matterials, operable in wider temperature ranges. One solution may be better for warmer climates, Other may work for colder climates. For starters just youtube alternatives to lithium batteries. This is the age of information. Ignorance is a choice. You have a computer in your pocket with more computing power than entirety of NASA when they put a man on the moon. It's connected to all the libraries, databases, universities around the world. This issue is about more than just EV's. It'll bennifit anything that uses batteries to on or off grid homes. Even the electrical grid itself. It'll provide solution to things we cant forsee. Putting humans on the moon lead to more comfortable beds, Cordless power tools and many other technological advancements came from NASA as unforseen results of the race to the moon.
People being displaced from mining operations should be provided with improved living conditions somewhere else. Paid for by the profits of these mining operations. It would barely move the needle to pay for it.
Any negative environment offsets such as contamination of waters and disruption of subsequent business need to be addressed immediately or force the operations to stop, until rectified.
Countries where these resources are abundant should be the obvious place to invest in the refinement and production of battery grade materials to make sure they are actually beneficial for the people who live there. More jobs better profits and local education.
Anyway this was an amazing video, thank you for all the hard work that went into this.
17:00 Article/video is outdated by current technology. NMC is not the standard battery tech for cars anymore. Modern accumulators (battery is only chargeable once btw) use iron and sulfur and no cobalt or manganese or nickel or zinc.
It is common FUD, at this point. One moron makes up some stuff, and then 10 to 100 bigger morons repeat it.
The closed copper mine featured in the video closed in the 80s and has NOTHING to do with EVs.
yes it has everything to do with EVs doesnt matter what you say! all those materials ends up in literaly everything around the world.
Cobalt free battery market share is 31% and growing with virtually no LFP manufacturing outside of China.
So that's where the graphite I put in locks comes from....Sri Lanka, cool!
I think this should have started by covering the environmental damage of drilling for oil, methane leakage etc to explain more why the change is needed. It had about 5 seconds at the start and the end. Otherwise interesting to see where all the batteries for all our devices come from.
Agreed. No one ever does. So ignorant people only see the bad side of EVs without comparing it to the woes of drilling, and refining gas. Gas refining has a slew of chemicals used.
Franking can be terrible if done wrong for instance. ICE need a lot of actual rare metals.
With that said we just have to be better at extracting anything. All the easy stuff is gone. We have to be more and more evasive to get our ever expanding needs.
Best thing about EVs though is most can be recycled. It isn't burnt up. The gas we do use for power is used more efficiently.
@@dianapennepacker6854 most is NOT recycled. not yet. its extremely expensive .
@@ct1762 and there is the sole reason why almost all recycling sadly fails. If it doesn't make a profit, it isn't viable nor sustainable. And yet the EV skeptics are "the ignorant people". Blinded by the greenwashing, while both ICE and EV kills the planet.
Steel, copper, nickel and many other metals have been mined and used for all sorts of vehicles since a 100 years now. So no logic in pointing fingers at EVs only. But the EV industry needs to realise that it should not aim to replace all ICE cars with EV cars, it should rather focus on public transport!
EVs are dead in the water. Fake dream.
Cobalt and nickel and copper are used for other products as well! Not just for car batteries! But nobody complains about that 🤣. For example cobalt is used in drill bits and copper is used for piping and heat pumps!
@@surecom12 yep like some are even by products of getting other materials
A very American view. In the rest of the word there IS public transport, since decades. And it is not the failure of companies, but the gosh darn states/gvernments/administrations.
@@Henning_Rech the rest of the world are tiny countries you can ride a bike across. california is larger than the ENTIRE country of germany. you should take a class on geography it might help that little brain of yours.
Mwandanje and all the miners in DR Congo (not to mention all the other exploited countries) deserve the same PPE and safety standards we have in Canada.
The mining companies should also be government-owned (that is, owned by the citizens, who each have a stake, and deserve moneys generated from these resources). That is the only way we can assure positive outcomes borh economically, and hopefully for the natural environment as well.
Nothing about mining should be "artisanal". It is a difficult and dangerous job.
Kudos to Indonesia for doing it the correct way, and not only doing resource extraction, but refining in-country. Although of course, the impact on the environment is still absolutely terrible.
The cost of lithium and Cobalt and nickel have dropped in cost. In the case of Li enviromental methods of extraction the element are being developed. Like the US Salton Sea Li plant is going to use a electrical chemical process to extract the Li. Agricultural wastewater is going to be used to extract the Li. As to energy the Li production is actually a biproduct of geothermal power production. Actually the Li production is going to be the largest base load electrical power source in the US state of California. This sort of enviromentally sound production of materials needed for EV's is possible for all the battery materials needed. Even for sea bed mining. What is needed is international pressure for these materials to be extracted in environmental and social compatable manor.
Are being developed and actually being in use is a huge difference. Lots of "going to"-s, lets see how that plays out when profit isn't as high as they hoped. Especially without funding, which is a sad possibility with the next elections in "murica". Wishful thinking at the moment, not more than that.
I’m not for or against the EV industry but it seems to me that it would be a good idea to use existing technologies and also new ones instead of just throwing out the old ones and jumping both feet first into this new idea that we don’t even know will work
100000% agree Hybrid vehicle is combining both technology and I think is the win win solution at least for now
EVs are more than 100 years old. It works.
Nobody is throwing out old tech. Ev can't all be replaced immediately. And it will continue to be better while ice vehicles reached its peak.
We built an electric chevy truck in high school for $10k from 1995-98.. It could smoke the tires and had a 200-300mile range..
Chevy released their EV-1 around the same time and it was absolute garbage.. it was clear the tech was being suppressed.
Hybrids right now are the best of both worlds. Some get well over 50+mpg and you can take them on long trips without having the anxiety of finding a charger and sitting for an hour every 200miles.. you just fill them up and treat it like a normal car.
@@frankreynolds9930 ICE are nowhere near there peak the single stroke motors prove that they are nowhere near finished in advancement either
Oil can’t be recycled, coal can’t be recycled but over 90% of batteries can what’s more as more battery technology develops the batteries will, are becoming cleaner. Sodium iron as an example.
Plastics could in theory be recycled. But we make them as cheap as possible then we don’t recycle them. So just because something is theoretically possible doesn’t mean that selfish humans will actually do it.
they can't so far. I dislike oil for cars with all my heart. I own an EV. but the gods of chemistry haven't nailed recycling that yet.
@@wmpx34We recycle a significant amount of plastic.
I won't believe you until you give me at least source of someone claiming 90% of battery material recycled. Even then we would need deep investigation wether those claims are close to actual truth.
Great. Now show us the same thing for oil. The extraction, ship transportation, refining, rail and road transportation, spills, sale and distribution, and infrastructure is all necessary eventually to burn oil into the air. At least battery tech lasts the entire life of the car and can be used for grid storage and then recycled once the life of the vehicle has ended.
Mate, 30% of all marine traffic and 40% of all freight train traffic is fossil fuels.
I must admit I was extremely hesitant about acquiring an EV
however now that I've learned that some of the materials are being Mined in an Artisanal fashion
All done by Hand and by Little Children too !! OMG silly me
what was I thinking ?
this sounds Soo adorable !!
I'm gonna order me a couple of EV's for every day use and an extra one as a spare
Heck I'm even going to buy one for my Nany maybe that way she can be show up time for a change
These pools are a very old method as it's the same from almost 100 years.
Like add a dome made of glass increase the heat and collect the humidity and tada fresh water and it works faster and if it rains it doesn't make it take longer as the pools didn't get more water from rain.
Hell there new technology that can make more then this in 3 to 5 months not 16 to 20 like this method.
Also copper is very recycled up to I think 97%.
Also car battery's have ben recycled for decades now and the ev one use same process but with up to 3 to 9 more steps but all the other 36 potential steps are already done now in production lines.
So just add 3 to 9 more steps too all the already there battery recycled plants.
Not just that, but also no mention of Lithium being mined in the UK! Strange how this video covers some countries and mines here which have some pretty rubbish enviromental records and ancient tech, and not Cornish Lithium which looks to be as green as possible and who also are looking at copper, cobalt and tungsten. This anti-EV crowd really clutch at straws and I bet they don't point at their own mobile phones and gold miining in the same way.
@@katiegoode true but usa is getting back in it.
Also city battery's or battery's that will never move don't need lithium and it can be almost as heavy as they like as they don't move.
The problem is the demand for copper is skyhigh. You can today only get 7-8kg copper / ton blasted rock declining. We need untill 2050 so much copper as we have used for 4000 years. This demand is impossble to meet.
@@MikeInc79 if it's a battery pack for a city it can use iron salt and magnesium or a different mix it doesn't need to have copper.
Also the weight doesn't matter well to a point that they can be very heavy but since it doesn't move its ok for it to be like 10x heavier then the rest.
a battery pack for a city is ridiculous. How many tons of minerals must be used for this enorumos battery packs? It's already been proven in Australia is doesn't work. Imagine thermal runaway in a such battery pack spewing nerv toxic smoke over urban areas. And it can't even benn estinguished with water. Don't never ever put water on alkali metals! It's better in long term to build stable energy production not intermitent energy sources like solar and wind anf thinking batteries are good energy storage. Absolutley bonkers! @@DeathsGarden-oz9gg
Very thorough and informative. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
0:40 Keep in mind that portion attributed to ICE includes all internal combustion engines, inclusive of commercial trucks and buses.
eye opening, thank you.
Look what they highlight here! They highlight the old technology. For example, colossal evaporation ponds for extracting lithium from brine, that are 30% efficient. Meanwhile there are new technologies that require no brine ponds (after processing to remove lithium the brine is returned to the ground from where it was pumped), they work virtually in real time, meaning lithium is extracted in hours or days instead of taking a year and a half to process, and they have three times the efficiency (removing >90% of lithium from the brine instead of 30%). The technology breakthroughs aren't just in the cars having electric engines. It is in every aspect of the industry. From mining to refining to reducing the supply chain distances traveled, to eliminating or reducing problematic inputs (cobalt, rare earths), to the technological efficiency of the factory that builds the cars. It's all improving. It's like presenting an argument that Henry Ford can't build his Model T production line because too many horses, and too many workers with picks and shovels will die working the mines to supply him. Mining changed then. It will now also.
The video said the offset of using the higher extraction methods producds hazardous waste the less efficient methods do not.
You wanna bet those poor countries care about your new technology? Many of them don't even have toilets just like in many regions of Russia.
They speak of Russian and Chinese plans for DLE. I have not read of their methods, but I don't recall pollution issues of any of the companies developing that technology here in the west. Maybe I missed it. Right after talking about DLE, they also made a claim that it might use too much water. Then they showed a man with his daughter, and he hoped there would be enough water for her😢. (WAAA)
OH Please!!! There is no way a factory process uses more water than 1000 hectare evaporation ponds in the desert that dry their product for up to a year and a half and are only 30% effective.
Yes, we should not ignore dangers of pollution, as the chinese are famous for doing. The underground brine reservoirs being tapped have been there isolated for 1000s or millions of years. Isolating the byproduct in those same chambers might not be that hazardous. I guess the last question is if China and Russia do it wrong, does that mean we shouldn't do it right? Is Brazil's ecology not their responsibility to look after?
The main issue I see with the EV adoption is the government push to do it in unrealistic timelines.
The joke is that the oil producers suddenly care about the environment when it comes to to electric cars😅
Can we have a video on true cost of extraction of fossil fuels and what an absolute horror story that is?
The oil and gas industry wouldn't want that, would it? ;-)
PS, the vast majority of "child labor cobalt" is used by the Oil industry, but it seemingly has only now become an issue because some EV batteries use it, and this is changing rapidly as Cobalt is toxic and expensive so it is being fazed out of most newer battery chemistries, and Nickel is used to make stainless steel.
Hmm conventional combustion engines don’t use any cobalt… true, but loads is used to refine the fuel they burn. Noticed that was omitted!
Plus when cobalt is used in batteries, they can recycle it and use it again, you can’t do that once it’s gone up in smoke 🤦♂️ 15:44
But the point of ev is to stop CO2 emission, we need to focus on recycling to solve the issue of having to keep mining the metals and minerals necessary, and I heard that aestroid mining is possible, maybe in the future
by then there will be no earth, all the rich people will be trying to HOMESTEAD asteriods LOL.
Imagine the scale of harmful emissions with the rockets transporting the ore. Including the severely limited weight limits in spaceflight, it will probably never happen. But a net to catch an impacting asteroid could be the next best thing.
A better answer- less consumption. Fewer cars. But with an increasing population, with more and more tech demands, consumption only will rise. And so the earth is a goner no matter how much we don't want it.
There's environmental impacts in any form of innovation. The problem is selling only the sexy points of EV but ignoring everything else. "Look here, don't look there"
Ahhh yes no CO2 (plant food) no plants ?
For the poisoned acid lake, why not just put netting above the whole thing or cover it ,
What made you think that was a good idea?
maybr because that would slow down the evaporation ?
Durability, you need something chemically inert. Like Teflon. Now make a netting that covers such an area, imagine the scale and the amount of support needed to keep it from drooping in because of its weight. Now imagine a better solution than netting.
Spray the filthy water with some STINKY oil.
Just make it bird repellent.
That is what I was thinking. All the plastic waste that we have across the globe, they could take that discarded plastic, and make some kind of a section that they could float across these acid, lakes, and connect them in sections and end up, covering the entire acid lake eventually.
I was born and bred in the coal region of Northeastern Pennsylvania. Come on a drive by sometimes and see the scarring and damage the coal industry of 200 years ago wreaked upon we who live in the middle of it
I love how the oil industry will try to convince us that mining is this new thing and it's bad...
Cobalt occurs naturally as only one stable isotope, cobalt-59. Cobalt-60 is a commercially important radioisotope, used as a radioactive tracer and for the production of high-energy gamma rays. Cobalt is also used in the petroleum industry as a catalyst when refining crude oil.
And much more cobalt is needed for EV batteries
you're not grasping the bigger concept here.
@@christerry1773 bots cant do that can they
You have made a comment. Fantastic however do you have a point or a question?
@@harrison00xXx Not for LFP batteries, which a lot of EV's now have. There's zero cobalt in them.
Besides investing much more in public transit and shifting away from cars, we could make more efficient use of ev batteries. For example, smaller cars, more efficient cars (e.g. Aptera), robotaxis, and car sharing. Also, if we have more charging stations, then we can use smaller batteries. Or if we move to battery swapping, then we can use a bigger battery only when needed.
We can encourage the use of LFP batteries, which are safer and use no nickel, manganese or cobalt; and sodium ion batteries, which use no lithium. And lets think more about our personal contribution to polution when we are deciding on a lifestyle. Most of our consumption in richer countries is not necessary. Can we be happy with less travel and fewer posessions?
Sodium batteries aren't suitable for cars. Because sodium contains less energy compared to lithium, the sodium battery will be much heavier than an LFP-battery. So sodium batteries arent't suitable for vehicles. You still have to mine lithium and phosphate poluting the ground and draing wells on water causing ecological disaster.
All very well but we live in a consumer led society. I personally kind of like that because it means freedom of choice. Besides there a hundreds of jobs and millions of workers who carry tools to job sites. You can't do that with public transport or vehicles like the Aptera.
Battery swaping? What happends if you swap the battery to a battery that is worse than the first one? You have no idea what you’ll get if you swap. Who is responsible if the swapped battery get’s thermal runaway engulfing your whole car in flames? You? The car dealer? Insurance company? The battery swapping company?
More charging stations?
Let’s give an example.
Let’s say you have 20 pumps at a truck stop. It takes five minutes to refill a car. That’s 240 cars / hour.
Let’s say it takes one hour to fully charge an EV. To get the same flow we need 240 chargers on at least 250kW! 240 x 250 = 60MW! Add 20 chargers on 1000kW for lorries. 20MW + 60MW = 80MW!!
And that’s only for one charging station.
10 of these along a motorway requires an own nuclear reactor.
Do we even have a power grid to manage this huge amount of power? No!
You see the future doesn’t look so bright for the EV madness if you calculate and asking critical question.
“Everything you read on internet about EVs are true. /Tom Jones, drummer Rolling Stones”.
When I was in my 20s a teacher had a car that you could run and it burned fuel so completely that you could run in a mine and not worry about any problem. Now we still cannot figure out what to do. That is a lye.
This is horrible. The human cost, the lack of safety, how did we not see this coming with Lithium in general?
Forget about EV's which can be made safely now, we've been sold Lithium batteries in all of our devices for many years now.
How was there never an Oppenheimer moment where the creator was like "hey maybe this isn't such a great idea after all".
The number one dominant species on earth is cars.
That's a scary sentence and at the same time an interesting perspective.
nah ants
Can't beat the ants!
The Pixar Cinematic Universe was prophecy.
No, it's cows.
So nickel is becoming more important than oil.
The slavery and the theft of land and destruction continues in the 21st f-ing century. Abhorrent corporate and gov't thugs.
For now, newer safer and denser battery tech will be nickel free
No. Without oil you won't have much to work with it
Kicking the can down the road, basically.
Lol that's what the producer of this video WANTS you to think...as that is what is deeply implied and given your response they have done it successfully.
Noticed how they spent over 10 minutes implying what you said...and then in the last 15 seconds a small offset mention about how the biggest EV manufacture in the world had switched from using Nickle to a battery that uses NO nickel at all for MOST of their vehicles...LOL. That is a pretty important detail that they put in a throw away comment at the tail-end of the segment.
In fact its so big of a deal because the rest of the entire industry is making this move...Its called LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate. And the reason behind it is much bigger...all though this video tried to imply that a letter to tesla complaining about environmental issues is the reason for the switch (LOL, spoiler alert...it wasn't) The switch was made for financial reasons because LFP is way more readily available and is MUCH cheaper....which is way more impactful for environmentalist because companies are way more likely to actually change their plans based on financial reasons than environmental ones which is why the ENTIRE industry have already made this switch like I said. So no their will be no giant Nickle boom due to EVs because only the highest of performance vehicles actually need to rely on nickel...but of course this video implies the opposite.
Just like implying artesian mining of cobalt is some huge part of the process....when its not. They spent 95% of the cobalt segment talking about what is less than 10% (that's being generous) of the industry. This is what we call...Propaganda folks...
I’ll keep my internal combustion transportation they will run on many types of fuel some are even renewable and low emissions. Also 100% recyclable at end of use.
AMAZING documentary ♥♥♥
Yeah its really funny. Lithium batteries are not exactly a new thing which came with EVs. They have rather been around for decades now - and the process of mining the minerals to produce them has not changed at all.
But I guess that fact - omitting EVs from the video title - does not make it polemic enough to be chlickbait
I wonder why the use of Cobalt in making gasoline isn't mentioned. It is 40 times as much as its use in car batteries, meaning that the use of Cobalt will go down 40 times when it isn't used to make gasoline. Soon, no car batteries will use Cobalt at all. This is a very distorted picture.
An extremely insightful video 👍🏼
Thanks for watching!
Forty thousand children have a job thanks to you good people. That's a win win for me.
Once the EV’s become big enough the recycling process will just take over and things will become cheaper and cheaper
That doesn't mean that companies are going to dig up dump site to recycle the previously used and thrown out batteries.
@@guardianoffire8814they are dumping batteries did you not watch the full episode?
unfortunately its not going to be the case! there is still a very long way to go.
@@alanmay7929 there is, but people don’t complain when they use the lithium on their phones. As battery technology improves/recycling becomes a lot more common places. Things will be cheaper too
USA: Mexico gimme control over your lithium reserves!
México: No
USA media: "The The True Cost Of Mining Electric Car Battery Metals"
Spoiler alert: it’s expensive
@@wmpx34and super toxic and in a decade it will be used only for old tech that nobody wants
Don’t worry, the US has plenty of reserves of their own.
@@benjaminanderson7066 omg it's paradise
In the end, we don't NEED to make this shift overnight. We can have fossil fuel and electric and work toward cleaning it all up. Going the direction we are going there are side effects that are obvious and those that are not even realized yet. Instead of one or the other, more options are better and will ultimately cause less harm and destruction to the earth and all of the people working in and living around these industries.
Canada produces a large amount of nickel and is Number 6 in the world and does it safely .