Schaublin 125 collet closer installation || RotarySMP
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- Using the Maho Mill and Boley lathe to repair broken alignment pins, and installing the schaublin pneumatic collet closer.
00:00 - Intro
00:17 - Spindle drive pulley installation
02:36 - Collet closer installation
04:23 - Broken alignment pin removal
06:44 - Monitor
10:05 - Making replacement alignment pins
15:37 - Final installation
18:17 - Testing
This is the thermal expansion calculator I used:
goodcalculators.com/thermal-e... - Věda a technologie
15:00 you notice someone must have put the slitingsaw backward without you noticing. Impressive that it cut like that.
Lucky it was only brass. I saw that when editing ++FACEPALM++
I'm sure he was just trying to keep the wear on both sides of the teeth even....I mean the backside of those teeth looked brand new :D
@@blahblahblahblah2933 Good one :)
In the future, if you’re trying to remove a small broken screw with thread-locker, try placing the tip of a soldering iron in the easy-out pilot hole. It keeps the heat more localized. 👍
Thanks for the tip.
@@RotarySMP Nice pun. 😆
@@jnorris8649 :)
If it were me trying to remove that broken stud, I'd snap the ezy out off sub surface and then I'd have two things to remove. Glad you made a tactical retreat there.
Thanks Mark. I was tempted to snap of a tap trying to clean it out too.
Some nice moving forward this week. Those one step forward, now I have to go back and make some silly pins to continue deals, are quite annoying. You handled it like a champ. 👍
Thanks. I wonder if I severed the pins durng disassembly, of they had been like that for years. I certainly didn't feel anything.
@@RotarySMP I was curious as well, and when they didn’t seem to have a specific attachment, and were brass, made me assume they were merely for alignment.
@@johnmccanntruth I think they are just an anti rotation feature to keep the piston from rotating relative to the cylinder (both of which rotate at spindle speed). Were the piston to rotate, theoretically it could adjust the collet pull in force, or release it. Seems like an unlikely case, and the weak anti rotation pins would not be much security.
Just thinking about it, as the 8mm pins re loose in 9mm holes, and see significant centripetal force and bending loads at up to 3000rpm, I wonder if they simply fatiqued over the years, and were already broken?
For the daughter... She can divide by three for a normal batch. This is mine for our Christmas BBQ in the UK in August when it's hot like a normal Christmas.
Anzac Biscuits
3 cup rolled oats
3 cup plain flour
2 cup brown sugar
2 cup desiccated coconut
375g butter, chopped
6 tablespoons golden syrup
1.5 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda
Preheat oven to 160°C/140°C fan-forced. Line 3 baking trays with baking paper.
Combine oats, flour, sugar and coconut in a bowl. Place butter, syrup and 2 tablespoons cold water in a saucepan over medium heat. Stir for 2 minutes or until butter has melted. Stir in bicarbonate of soda. Stir butter mixture into oat mixture.
Roll level tablespoons of mixture into balls. Place on trays, 5cm apart. Flatten slightly. Bake for 10 to 12 minutes or until light golden (see note). Stand on trays for 5 minutes. Transfer to a wire rack to cool completely. Serve.
Yum. I like ANZAC biscuits.
ah, I love when I actually giggle out loud. The "cleaning the nameplate" has been my favorite jokes so far
Thanks for the feedback. You know, it is really not that easy to get the gunk out of their. :)
We obviously need a dedicated compilation video of the process, when it's done.
@@RotarySMP I say for the final cleaning stage you find someone to lend you a portable atmospheric plasma cleaner
@@HuskyMachining That sounds like a flux capacitor. Need to google that. But since I have never heard of it, I am sure no one I know has one. If any of my mate bought a tool like that...everyone would know about it.
I wonder if a ‘waterpik’ like device shooting acetone at the crevices would work 🤓
I have a great luck with extracting broken bleeding nipples from brake calipers with hammering in torx bit (it is good to grind face off to get sharper edges, i can recommend it even for normal use) and after it is unable to get thread unstuck i hammer in spline (12 point) bit and this one is able to get thread unscrewed every time. Some heat is needed, cleaning every visible part of thread is essential, drilling to get material thinner and thinner must be considered
That's actually a good solution - I've done it a couple of times and the grinding of the face is essential to get a good grip. But I don't know if it would work with a "loctited" bolt.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I have no access to drill press, it works freehand in vice and on rigidly mounted elements of car with no disassembly at all :>
Brass is terrible to extract with easy-outs. It just tears apart. Drilling with a tap drill and then rethreading works great and is my go-to solution most times.
@@millwrightrick1 I suspect that Ezeouts work better with increase thread diameter, and increased strength screws. As the core is softer and the threads harder, you might not get as much jamming due to the taper.
I have installed the same temperature controller on my oven...the one in my kitchen absolutelyworks great.
Cheap and cheerful, it seems to work fine.
I really enjoy the glimpses into air plane mechanics
Sometimes the right story comes to me, sometimes they dont. Thanks for the feedback.
Gotta love those old Schaublins, they are so well built.
Yeah, it really is.
This lathe is really coming together 👍😎👍
Slowly, but it any progress is good.
Good step forward on the rebuild...
Thanks.
Great info and nice to see you work
Thanks for watching.
the music is exceptionally nice
Thanks for the feedback.
I have found my small butane torch for this kind of work is almost a must. Very hot small flame very localized.
Other recommended a soldering iron, but since eze-outs dont work well with brass, it was pretty academic. Drilling out was better for this case.
the heating fitting part was so nice
Thanks for the feedback.
@@RotarySMP my pleasure
Nice work !
Thanks for the feedback.
I recently fostered a kitten who, in his youthful vigour, thrashed my feet and shins the way 0.040" lockwire thrashed my hands in college. If I'd adopted him that would have been a good name.
Also Snap-on isn't the end-all and be-all but their screw extractors with the short shanks and hex heads are the only ones I'd recommend.
Thanks for that recommendation. Not sure if you can still get Snap-on over here?
Nice work! I recently built a headstock for the tiny emco pc50 we have at work, and I fitted a similar style collet closer. I bought a cheap bar puller and hey presto it can make batches of parts. nice thing about your collet closer is the union is what spins, on mine it has a fixed outer case, and thrust bearings, which end up making quite a bit of drag. the extra drag, and mass prevent me from using the highest gear, but the tradeoff is well worth it.
Yeah, that Schaublin design is really nice. I also like that you can remove the pull tube whle leaving the rest installed, freeing up the full 36mm bore. On the Boley, to open up the full 23mm bore, you have to remove the entire collet closer system.
@@RotarySMP The best feeling is when you make your first batch of parts by running only one program.
Show.ficou muito boa essa pinça automática.
Obrigado. É um mecanismo bem feito. No 125-CCN posterior, a mudança para um pistão de 2 estágios de diâmetro menor.
If I'm remembering my metallurgy classes, the thermal expansion of brass is greater than that of steel, so, you were just tightening it. Throw the whole thing in the freezer and the brass should have backed right out. As a (former) gunsmith, I never had to deal with brass screws in steel often... but, I hated it every time I did!
The heat was to soften the locktite. Since Eze-outs dont work well in brass, it was a failure anyay.
@@RotarySMP Failure? Nonsense... Just like Edison, you have now learned one way NOT to remove broken off brass studs that some lummox used loctite on. And, for completeness sake, you followed it up with a way TO remove them. The machining circle of life is complete! From chips it began, to chips it returns.
"We don't use Loctite in Aviation that often"... guess that's why we here about something falling off an airplane every other month :P
Ouch. True though. The industry often sticks with technologies which other industries long dropped.
good job rotarySMP
Thanks.
The rubber grooves looks pretty safe to work with a torch
The rubber stunk a bit when burnt.
The secret to success " graceful recovery "
Thanks for the kind feedback.
The loctite is most likely NOT for retention, but for keeping the piston air tight.
Oh, good point. I didn't think of that.
Yeah I came here to say it was probably a thread sealant. Loctite 577 or similar.
@@jonathan1427 Thanks for that feedback.
Nameplate getting extra attention, nice.
But not getting any cleaner. ANother 20 in the series, and it will be clean or worn through.
That works lovely bit nicer than the manual closer on my capstan lathe.
It is a better disgn than the Boleys one as well. If you are not using collets and need to open up the full 36mm through hole, you just need to unscrew the pull tube. On the Boley, you have to remove the entire mechanism.
You don't need a candle nor toothbrush, just use some blue tack. Amazing for cleaning nooks and crannies, even picks up surface corrosion. I used it clean up a meteorite and it looked like it had been polished
Remember this is Swiss quality junk we are talkin about. Not some low quality space debris :)
@@RotarySMP well, it was a pretty cheap meteorite for me to be able to afford it. But on a serious note you massage the blutack till it gets warm then just keep pushing it on to the surface and pulling it off then folding in to expose clean surface
@@Hilmi12 I remember Blu-Tack from school in the 80's, but have never seen it used in Austria. WIll check in a stationary store if the lock down ever ends.
@@RotarySMP Well, the stationary store won't be going anywhere :-)
@@andypughtube Yeah. Me neither.
I guess the problem with the EZout on such a small soft brass thing is the taper will force it to become even tighter as you screw it in.
yep, that is what happened.
Maybe if you remove manfacturer"s plate and put them into ultrasonic cleaner, you probably clean this plate finally :D Just kidding, I look forward for next method of cleaning. Maybe you could try to use turpentine, I was really surprised how well it works. Excellent video mate. #3 fan
Thanks. I wont remove that plate. That would feel like admitting defeat. :) Thanks for the feedback.
Very nice 😁👍💪 subscribed
Welcome. Thanks for joining.
I use the same the touch screen on my mill. For the price pretty solid unit
Did you have any issues getting the touch function to work? I was looking at the RS-232 to USB cables, and they may need a driver, but also saw reports that this seems a basic installed component in Linux these days.
@@RotarySMP yes you need to download the driver from 3M website. You input the screen model and download it. I am running window though
I put your nice video on to hear, doing something else in parallel. I did spent some time thinking what 'guess welding' was, some super advanced aviation training apparently 😂 (hope you take no offense in this, that's how a non-native English speaker hears stuff sometimes)
Guess welding is more like how I do it today. No clue, but I guess this could work :)
@@RotarySMP never done any other kind of welding 😂
Clever boy. I think I would have tried to gauge a slit in from the back to get a screwdriver in. And likely slipped and ruined it :D
I did consider it. :)
You could try some easy tack, or like claybar to try and mush in on the surface of the plaque. That may be enough to conform to the little crannies in there.
I have had that tip before. If the lock down ends, I can see if the stationary store hs blutac. I have my doubts though. That gunk is like kryptonite.
@@BloopTube It does, but the minimum price of anything in Amazon always seems to end up as €10, which would be steep for a little bluetack.
For cutting brass you will get a near mirror surface finish with a HSS tool. A nice rad and the secret is a neutral top rake. I have a few tools that I only use for brass. It likes a sharp tool. Keep up the good work.
Cheers
True, but I was too lazy to set one up but the carbide inserts were already set up. You can see in the relief groove how much nicer the finish was.
Ganhou mais um inscrito .Saudações do Brasil
Obrigado por seu apoio.
My Youtubing lathe knowledge has me thinking you need to level the manual lathe as you have a slight taper. Maybe use the level you get in the future episode 😝. You know, the one that you are going to engrave markings on.
I wont be leveling the manual lathe, as I will sell it. I will level the Schaublin once it is finished though.
@@RotarySMP id gets you to bring it down under when you head home, yet it would hardly be economical. Speaking of which, don't forget when you are in the southern hemisphere that, thongs go on your feet 🤣
Never been this early for anything in my life
:) Sorry to keep you waiting.
Im ready :-)
Not long now.
Awesome work. missed the premier by this || much , stupid time difference.
It is fun, watching and chatting at the same time. I'll do it again.
Did you accidentally install and run the slitting saw backwards? :)
Darn, you noticed :/ I saw it in editing.
@@RotarySMP I only noticed because i have made the exact same mistake. You got away with it in brass, but with steel you get NOIIIIISSSSEEEE and a ruined blade :(
@@folxam Very careless of me.
@@RotarySMP build from experience, learn from mistakes :)
last episode you used a stick to clean the label. Maybe a bigger stick would work better?
Maybe better than a candle :)
@@RotarySMP I bought soft, nylon brushes intended to use with cordless drill, set of three. I think, that they are great for this kind of job, as they are not able to remove anything but dirt. They are cleaning great everything around home, anyway
@@poprawa Do they get into the really tight cranny's? This is highly tenacious Swiss gunk. Unimpressed with everything I have thrown at it so far.
👍
Thanks.
music starting at 1:54 is Kidintense - Out of Your Mind
I use YT free music, but dont really notice the names. I more look for certain genre or mood.
@@RotarySMP while I never disliked anything you've used before, I liked the style of this one. Just noted it in case someone else might like it.
If it's not too much effort, can you include the music used in the description (extra effort award - "Fleißsternchen" - if you include the timestamps)? I bet not just the artists would love that.
@@HAGmbHkeG I tried doing that for a while, but music is always the last thing I add, and that is normally late on saturday night, so it can render and upload while I sleep. Sunday I have to do the thumb and description etc, so I guess I can try, but but wont promise it.
Great to see the project coming along
Just wondering should the brass sheer pins not be a good fit for the whole ?
Otherwise there will be there will be an impact with the plate every time the lathe starts and stops
The piston and the cylinder rotate together, so there should be no relative motion. I can only imagine that they are to prevent the piston rotating and allowing the collet closer to back out. But the huge clearance untypical for Schaublin.
A great way to heat a fastener without heating the surrounding area is to stick the tip of a soldering iron into it.
Thanks. I think I have a big soldering iron somewhere.
@@RotarySMP even a normal one will work for most smaller fastners.
@@DoRC Great tip thanks.
I was just thinking the same thing. I have a wood burning iron too, which would probably work too.
@@globalns I am picturing a medieval torture device with a wood fire up near it's tip. :)
Genuinely thought you were going to be making an ezeout for a bit more yak shaving there.
I briefly considered it, but a broken home made tap, in the piston would have sucked even worse.
@@RotarySMP but then there'd be the opportunity to make a home made broken tap removal tool, and several iterations after that a home made piston.
If you don't want to install a second three phase socket for both your mill and lathe, you can make a male plug with two cables and connect two female plugs on the ends, I did that for my mill and lathe and it works great. With those 32A sockets you probably won't exceed the ratings and the large plugs fit two cables easily.
That room currently has Maho/Boley/Clarkson and oven sharing that plug. As the Maho causes flickering in SWMBO office, and there is a well pump with a separate service out to the gate, one of the (endless) list of to-do's is to rewire that room onto the pumps service and add more sockets. If I do a "temporary solution" like a Y cable, you know where that ends.
@@RotarySMP Nothing so permanent as a working temporary solution.
I guess I will go to the workshop after the video
Sorry to slow you down. :)
I watched in the metro going to the workshop 😂
@@RotarySMP I am multitasking, watching the video and turning parts on the lathe
@@DolezalPetr How that doesnt go sideways :)
@@RotarySMP You have to be carefull but it works 😅
coole sachen machst du da! endlich mal ein Österreicher, der mehr kann als nur Bier trinken! Gratuliere!
Danke, Ich bin zwa kein Österreicher, aber schon eine der Hier lebt. Ein CZcams Kanal wo ich nur Bier trinker wäre Wahrscheinlich nichts :)
@@RotarySMP naja wäre vll. mal lustig. ein Bier für die Maho! für mich bist du ein Österreicher, egal woher du kommst.
My experience with steel shows that heating does indeed expand it. Then it shrinks on cooling, & you only normally get one shot. You sure you're going to be able to get that pulley off again?
I already pulled it of once.
If you have any chunks of old loctite remaining, I wonder if you could experiment with it to see if there any solvents that could soften or melt it?
I have pretty much finished disassembly, so that was all of it.
Where did you get those oil fittings, I've been looking for M8 x 1 !
I got them from Sinntec...
www.sinntec.de/Drehgelenk-freibeweglich-steckbar
Just a question where in vienna can one get stock?
You can buy from Fixmetal, but their prices are terrible. It is often cheaper to buy from Ebay.de. Sad.
Are there any videos that show the details of the rotating seals?
I'm looking at replacing the manual draw arrangement on a turret lathe and I'm thinking about using air to avoid making a mile of linkages.
Thanks
Do you mean the rotating bearing on the end of the spindle with the air fittings? Sorry, I didn't disassemble that one.
@@RotarySMP No worries, thanks for the reply.
Watched, liked and send to my friend :-)
Thanks, I appreciate that.
@@RotarySMP No Problem. I thing i got him to watch the whole series :D
@@BigManko Good one. Thanks.
Can anyone tell me what the flexures are for on the back of the pulley lock nut? Is it to clamp the internal threads to prevent loosening over time?
Yes. It is thread locking method. Very positive locking, so it will never back out. They put a lot of work into that nut.
Very cool. Unique way to do it.
@@CNCWerks I think they are not uncommon in high end machine building.
Those brass bolts are probably sealed so air does not pass to the other side of the cylinder.
You are probably right. I was on the wrong thought path there.
maybe white glue can take the dirt of the name plate i know that white glue is used for cleaning vinyl discs the dust stick to the glue
Good idea. Worth a try.
@@RotarySMP :)
Is it powerful enough for a small power chuck as well?
I am pretty sure I could break a locking wire pretty easily just by turning with a wrench, loctite no chance it would break loose. Is there something more to it?
Might be. You set the clamping force with the Oneumatic pressure. There is a px v force chart in the manual.
@@MF175mp Vibration is not a wrench. Lockwire does not tend to break. The primary locking of any screw is friction from the torque, but if that fails, and the screw comes loose, lock wire will stop it backing out. Locktite on the threads just increases that friction, but if it fails, there is then nothing to stop the screw backing out.
Finally a subject I know something about. Actually, the primary locking is preload which is developed by bolt stretch. Yes, preload develops friction at the threads, but if you have a short stiff bolt (high relative spring rate), there will be very little stretch in the bolt for the maximum preload that can be applied for its size. Now add a little vibration and the bolt unthreads just a little and all preload is lost. The only thing lock wire does then is retain the fractured bolt head as there is insufficient tension possible in the lock wire to prevent the minor rotation that released the preload. Lock wire is useful in many instances, especially if you have a long slender bolt that stretched quite a bit while preloading. The lock wire tension will eventually stop the bolt from further unthreading before all preload is lost. Aerospace hates locktite for many reasons….. but the one I heard all the time was it’s difficult to control where it goes and how much is applied (aerospace expects consistency). Look around in aero applications and you’ll see many instances where several small fasteners are used when clearly one large fastener was strong enough. Problem is you can’t stretch that large diameter bolt and that kind of joint is more likely to fail in that flying vibration machine. 👍👍😎👍👍
@@joell439 Thanks, that is an excellent explanation. I know Automotive only uses thread locking. So would the design for longer fasterners where ever possible, to get a long extension?
How did you know I needed something to do for a few minutes? :)
Thanks for investnig that time here.
Hi there! Why are you using 5C collets on a Schaublin lathe instead of Schaublin collets???
They are B32 collets.
@@RotarySMP Didn't know those exist! they look almost identical ! Could you make a video about collets ?
@@micheldelsem7022 That is a good idea. Collets are like fungus. Once you start looking closely, you find that they are everywhere in your shop :)
mmmm cookies
NIco just picked up his share :)
@@RotarySMP the logical way
If you ever get finished with the nameplate and the rest of the machine, here's an upgrade: czcams.com/video/pci_hjU3KG8/video.html
You might need to move a wall or too in your basement, though... I'm sure Mrs. RotarySMP would be thrilled!
What a beast. I m not sure my whole house is 8m long.
So I also have a resistive oldschool touchscreen but I have a problem with it, the image is displayed a bit too low so the bottom is cut off and the top has a black bar and I can not move it up by the buttons the screen has, it is maxed out but it still needs like half a cm to go up, anybody knows how to fix it? I know there must be some command or something to move the image up in linux, but I dont know how to do it :(
If the image is in the wrong place, that has nothing to do with the touch digitizer. The display panel will have a control module. If you open up the housing and look up the part number on the control board, they are often available cheap on ebay.
@@RotarySMP it is a whole monitor, the kind they put in like ATMs and cash registers, it is brand new, the model is ELO ET1537L
@@DolezalPetr ELO are pretty common. Open it and and take a look. I doubt there is much you cn do for it other than replace the control board though.
@@RotarySMP I checked the inside a long time ago, I though the capacitors are bad, but everything looked brand new and all capacitors and other parts I could meassure checked perfect, so I think the monitor works as it should, I think it has to do something with Xrandr in Linux
@@DolezalPetr When I set up the touch screen for the Maho, I had to install pacakges and calbrate it to get the touch working, but the display was plug and play.
Bummer the candle didn't work.
Worth a try.
Great passion project - what a pity there is so much 'futzing' required to get Linux CNC actually up and running with all the bits and pieces required - maybe someone one day will actually put together a 'kit' that actually woks from A to Z. Great find on the pneumatics nozzles.
There is no point doing a kit, as every DIY CNC conversion is different. Everyone has different budgets, ideas, goals, basis machines etc. Luckily the support in the forum is brilliant.
@@RotarySMP Maybe Linux CNC is all about the futzing ...
@@petera1033 I think that is the Linux culture.
taking off broken screws is pain
Yeah. Glad I didnt get impatient and screw it up this time.
@@RotarySMP yep
oooooooh.... that plate will be worn down to oblivion before it's "clean egnough" 🤣🤣
You are not wrong. Maybe I am trying to file off the serial number?
Insta-clicked to disappointment... must wait another hour 😞
Sorry about the disappointment. Never tried that YT premiere feature before.
Heads up... Skip to 19 minutes if you want to avoid the bullshite
Thanks for the feedback.
An interference fit, backed up by a spath nut seems kind of ridiculous
Schaublin didn't do any half measures on this machine. Belt and suspenders all the way.
4:48 screaming at the screen. Drill that from the other side and if it catches it will unscrew its self ! !.
It is a through hole, so it doesnt really matter what side it got drilled from.
@@RotarySMP Think about it`s direction of rotation. It would of "unscrewed it`s self" coming from the other side if you get lucky and it grabs. You can normally just get away with normal R/H drill bits. Its worked very very well for me over the years. I used to have a lovely set of L/H drill bits and stud extractors for when a through hole was not an option.
@@harezy A RH thread is a RH thread. Regardless which side of the plate is up.
@@RotarySMP I don't think you quite understand what I mean. As you drill it out from the broken stub side you will do up the thread making it tighter. Drilling from the other side is effectively like undoing it. The drill will try to spin the stub in an undoing fashion hopefully unscrewing it's self saving the need for the extractor.
@@harezy One of us has a issue visualising this. I hope it is not me :)
This is a through hole, with a RH thread and the drill is turning clockwise.
The systen is symmetrical in the sense that regardless which side is up, turning clockwise will drive the screw down.
It makes no difference from which side you drill, were the drill to break the screw loose, the screw would would rotate clock wise (with the drill) and fall out the bottom of the plate.
👍
THanks.