The Bombay: Cat or Miniature Panther?

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  • čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
  • Thanks to his short black coat, the Bombay cat looks a lot like a small panther! This medium-size cat breed was created in the 1950s by crossing sable Burmese with black American Shorthairs. Learn more at www.vetstreet.com/.

Komentáře • 148

  • @Mr.T00nz
    @Mr.T00nz Před 7 lety +32

    I love my Bombay Cat she's the best an sweetest thing ever....

    • @littlepotato__89
      @littlepotato__89 Před 5 lety

      Sir! please may I have your breeder contact info! I'm In texas

    • @DrunkenGuitarGuy
      @DrunkenGuitarGuy Před 5 lety +1

      @@littlepotato__89 no doubt like 99% of people that say they have a bombay its just a black american shorthair, everyone has to feel special these days

    • @Kdyanna
      @Kdyanna Před 5 lety +2

      My baby is just so intelligent which means that little man is not only demanding but will lead me to were it is that I can get it for him!

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety

      omg i know

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety +2

      @@DrunkenGuitarGuy bullshit

  • @j.elizabeth4621
    @j.elizabeth4621 Před 5 lety +20

    I just lost my bombay. I miss him so much, there has never been a cat like him and I'm not sure there ever will be.

    • @adg_87
      @adg_87 Před 3 lety +1

      J. You are so right. My condolences to you. I know he loved you as much as you loved him. That's how Bombays are.

    • @peterkirgan2921
      @peterkirgan2921 Před rokem

      hi i divorced my wife & yes the family cat is a bombay ! her name is pood ! shes probably about 9 yrs in human terms but im worried about abducting her from the ex ! problem is i have construction going on in my area also i have an inground pool & their are other cats in the area so im in 2 minds @ the moment !!

  • @lookingforwyatteearp3137
    @lookingforwyatteearp3137 Před 4 lety +3

    We have a Bombay car and hes wonderful. He plays fetch just like a dog and he loves it. One of the few cat breeds that fetch.

  • @PF680
    @PF680 Před 6 lety +8

    I had the pleasure of meeting Rex at the catshow in Maryland. His enclosure was so cute. What a sweet cat. He won best in show.

  • @tcswag801
    @tcswag801 Před 5 lety +5

    My female bombay "mini" i found her by the dumpsters behind my condo building downtown large city . Early Nov with very cold nights she was super tiny and young totally alone I was able to pick her up and put her inside my glove . when i took her upstairs my old male cat g-no that's half maine coon (17 yr old outdoor alley cat majority of his life) didn't seem to mind the new company .never any doubt I was keeping her . now 4 yrs later she follows me everywhere including the shower . she sleeps under my covers and sometimes my legs and will swat at my girlfriend when she spends the night . she's a pain in the ass but wouldn't trade her for anything .

  • @adg_87
    @adg_87 Před 3 lety +4

    Nothing and I mean nothing like a Bombay cat. I have never owned a more loving and interesting animal. My Pepsi is my world.

  • @DrJ-hx7wv
    @DrJ-hx7wv Před 3 lety +2

    My green eyed Bombay is named Marcel. When he was a kitten, he used to dance around to Heavens "Boy's Night Out." He would stare at me pathetically when it ended.
    Love this breed.

  • @littlepotato__89
    @littlepotato__89 Před 5 lety +7

    I need one in my life 😍😍😍😍

  • @paulbennell3313
    @paulbennell3313 Před 4 lety +1

    Lovely wee feller!

  • @soicypullin7482
    @soicypullin7482 Před 5 lety +4

    I have 2 and they are the cutest so playful and they chase me around the house they love sneak attacking each other when she said Bombay cats dont like to leap on stuff not true I know for a fact I have Bombay cats and that's all they do is climb. Cats can act different if you let them out of the house somtimes they will leap and climb and get up on stuff when they get a taste of freedom and out of your grasp.

  • @dr.feelgood1585
    @dr.feelgood1585 Před 6 lety +16

    Doesn't like to jump?! She needs to have a talk with my Bombay.

    • @HadyhB
      @HadyhB Před 5 lety

      @kat foley mine plays fetch and jumps EXTREMELY high

    • @dnfkghs
      @dnfkghs Před 4 lety +1

      Mine flies.

    • @lecreciaw
      @lecreciaw Před 4 lety +1

      Omg mine jumps so high and loves jumping

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety

      She said Bombays don't jump as much & won't be hanging from the chandeliers like other Cat breeds, which is true. It's' assumed Bombay's don't do as much jumping & leaping because of their dense muscle mass, nevertheless they do play & can jump. Most black cats aren't Bombays. Most are only black Domestic shorthairs mistakenly thought to be Bombays.

    • @Melissa-lh6rg
      @Melissa-lh6rg Před rokem

      Amen! Mine jumps from everywhere. And loves being up high when doing so

  • @kathleengivant-taylor2277

    Beautiful cat

  • @richardsaxecoburg3872
    @richardsaxecoburg3872 Před 8 lety +1

    Gorgeous!

  • @dr.phillnaadoftennessee.9788

    My wife, and I have a male Bombay cat his name is kitty cat. he's going on 13 years old now, and still in good health.. We got him right after he was winged from his mama cat. But I have to say he is very picky when it comes to people, he is definitely a one-person cat. I can do things with him that my wife can't, for an example giving him a bath or giving him his flea pill. Because he is far more partial to me than anybody else, and he hates strangers, and small children lol...

  • @aviaray621
    @aviaray621 Před 5 lety

    My dad one of these when he was a boy named shorty

  • @greedwrath1340
    @greedwrath1340 Před 7 lety +10

    I have a bombay. He's a kitten. c:

  • @carmenmtorres7029
    @carmenmtorres7029 Před 3 lety

    Bellos. Yo tenía uno y tuve que regalarlo. Lloré mucho por él.

  • @klaus8910
    @klaus8910 Před 4 lety +1

    As SOON as I saw that cat, I started laughing so chard I cryed
    Edit: THAT CAT IS SOOOOOOOOOOO CUTE THO

  • @Aethuviel
    @Aethuviel Před 5 lety +3

    That cat barely has a face. Sad to see brachycephaly coming to more breeds, I've seen this in the Burmese too. If it's supposed to look like a panther, it should have a long, massive face, like a Maine Coon. Not this. And brachycephaly hurts their breathing.

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 4 lety +1

      Agreed, the face is far too flat.. It is a matter of taste. My Bombay has a more angular face and true gold eyes. He looks like a "Black Birmese".

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +2

      That's what a REAL BOMBAY cat looks like! The cat in the video is a SHOW CHAMPION. Most of the people here seem to think a black cat is a Bombay? Most of the pictures on the internet of supposed Bombay Catz aren't.

    • @amazingabby25
      @amazingabby25 Před 3 lety

      J.L. Herington I know.

    • @artpsych71
      @artpsych71 Před rokem

      The British Bombays do not have brachycephaly, thankfully.

  • @Jakoblanham1863
    @Jakoblanham1863 Před 4 lety +1

    That’s my kinda cat name

  • @attygarland6909
    @attygarland6909 Před 3 lety +1

    What in the world happened to his fur above the eyes? Makes him look like he has "negative eyebrows", or something. Fur infection?

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 2 lety

      It is a trait of the breed.. They appear "balding" above the eyes.

    • @Melissa-lh6rg
      @Melissa-lh6rg Před rokem

      Cool, mine seems bald close to her ears. Now I know why 😊

  • @marktheo1563
    @marktheo1563 Před 2 lety

    Mother nature still breeds them in the wild here in n.y. & new england from different & available parent stock including bobcats. Just bigger,& more black panther lookin in a completely beautiful way ,more so than the highest show quality Bombays used in photos & videos on web sites. Some even have natural pixie bob bombay tails or abnormally short as well as full length. I am so lucky to have 2 long tailed male wild kittens that have decided to adopt me & are coming around to domestication well though slowly at 8.5 months of age. The smaller,Felix is 12+lbs & 28" from nose to ass with no tail included at all. Stand 14/15" at the front shoulder on all fours with about 8" of ground clearance.He enjoys indoor nightly visits ,purring & sleeping across my stomach & chest in my easy chair with me. His brother Sebatian is considerably larger at 16 lbs or so,but less friendly as of yet,so no way to measure his height or length as of yet. How big will they get? Who knows,I can only guess,their father sydney is a wild longtailed pixie bob about 30lbs or so around 2 years old. So time will tell. They can certainly woof some serious chow & yet display relentless rodent pursuit no matter how much you feed them.

  • @Dogetuberyt
    @Dogetuberyt Před 4 lety

    Named mine pepper, because the other Cat is named parsley

  • @elizabethbennet4791
    @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety +3

    bombays are THE BEST!!!

  • @65FullMoon83
    @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +2

    *That's a HIGH QUALITY BOMBAY!* Looks like a H👀T OWL in the face with a compact dense muscular body! Bombays & Burmese are *"Bricks wrapped in silk!"*

    • @mariyashaukat3070
      @mariyashaukat3070 Před 2 lety

      HEY EVERY ! IT’S YOUR [Number-1-Top-Rated Salesman], SPAMTON G. SPAMTON!

  • @panfromspace
    @panfromspace Před 8 lety

    I just happened to find those breed and I didn't know it was that hard to find one

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety

      we found a stray that was a bombay

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      @@elizabethbennet4791 I doubt it. Bombays are pretty rare. They've got a very distinct head, eye & body type. If you happened to actually find a REAL Bombay the owner will most certainly want it back.

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      These cats are rare! And even rarer is when a REAL Bombay is found at a shelter or wandering around. They don't have the head, eye or body type of a regular black cat. They're very distinct looking with very round heads, a shortened muzzle, huge expressive, yellow or copper penny eyes & exceptionally solid well muscled body.

  • @bijgiean
    @bijgiean Před 5 lety

    I want one.

  • @Pinkrosessss
    @Pinkrosessss Před 4 lety

    0:48 sis them eyes green at haha

  • @crowcashmoney
    @crowcashmoney Před 7 lety

    I think my cat, Lucifer, is a Bombay. We found him on our balcony about 11 years ago. We think he was abused since a few of his toe beans are crooked and he doesn't have a full tail. It's about 3 inches and ends in a crook????? Anyway, he's in a good home now and we love him very much

    • @makotoyuki2199
      @makotoyuki2199 Před 5 lety

      Lizz the Kingslayer Why would you name your cat Lucifer?!

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +2

      If you really had a TRUE Bombay you wouldn't have to question if you have one or not. They're head, eyes & body features are very uncommon to common cats.

  • @fluffy.bishka
    @fluffy.bishka Před 5 lety +11

    I don't think that is pure bombay cat!

    • @PharaohsNews
      @PharaohsNews Před 5 lety +2

      Bishka Bishka there are two Bombay cats.
      English and American. He’s English.

    • @klaus8910
      @klaus8910 Před 4 lety +2

      You are dumb, can you NOT see the gold eyes, the black, and the style of movement? Research a little more before you comment. :)

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety

      nope

    • @elizabethbennet4791
      @elizabethbennet4791 Před 4 lety +3

      @@klaus8910 your brain dont work

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +2

      That cat is a Show Champion Bombay! Duh?

  • @colaynasakuragi3653
    @colaynasakuragi3653 Před 5 lety

    Found a kitten in on the street 2018 and google claimed it was a Bumbay cat... I mean black all over, short hair and the eyes...
    But this is a specific breed, and I can’t imagine why one might end up on the street. Even so, she’s my little black beauty and I’m happy...

    • @Kdyanna
      @Kdyanna Před 5 lety +1

      AWESOME! I got Quincy Idris Jonez II from the SPCA he also has the physical & mental signs of being a Bombay. is 2 years old now and he brings me 100% Pure Joy. Sad they might end up on the streets or shelters. But because of stupid superstitions or beliefs about Black mammals is just that superstition & actually hurtful, my Baby does not go outside. I live in SF & too I don't want him hurt.

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +4

      @@Kdyanna REAL Bombays don't just end up on the street. If you found him, he undoubtedly escaped from his owners & they'll want him back. Bombays aren't regular black cats. They're well bred distinctive looking $ cats. Just like the one in the video.

    • @amazingabby25
      @amazingabby25 Před 3 lety +1

      J.L. Herington Mine was taken from a neighbors home, they bred dogs, and were given an Bombay in a trade, but decided they didn’t like him as much as their precious dogs, so they left him behind. I hope he lives a long life, I read some Bombay’s have health issues

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +2

      @@amazingabby25 Just depends on the breeder & if they've DNA screened their Bombay breeders for known health issues in the breed. They're generally a healthy breed living up to 18 years.

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 3 lety +1

      @@amazingabby25 A Bombay cat from a breeder will have virtually no health issues other that feeding them good quality food and keeping them inside always. They can easily live 20 years..

  • @RobertMorrison70
    @RobertMorrison70 Před 3 lety +1

    looks like a Burmese

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 3 lety

      Basically a Bombay is a "Black Burmese"… The one in this video is not my favorite, because it was bred to have a round , flat face. I prefer a more "Asian exotic" face...

  • @yallbeblessed
    @yallbeblessed Před 3 lety

    This is gotta be a Burmese

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 2 lety +1

      They actually are 80% Burmese, with some "Domestic Black" bred in for the black color.

  • @ivanshapli1827
    @ivanshapli1827 Před 4 lety

    I got mine at the animal shelter

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      Probably mistaken identity! They're an extra rare cat breed with a very unique & peculiar owl-like round head, unusually large round vivid yellow or copper penny eyes & a remarkably dense muscular body. A Bombay isn't just any "black cat" with attractive eyes.

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 3 lety

      @@65FullMoon83 Quite correct !!!

  • @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv
    @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv Před 5 lety

    Original bombry have gold eyes

  • @quartermaster2809
    @quartermaster2809 Před 3 lety

    Mini panther

  • @_Gustav027_
    @_Gustav027_ Před 7 lety

    my black cat I found behind dunkin donuts looks more like a panther from this cat..

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +3

      Probably a black Domestic Shorthair. All REAL Bombays look like the cat in the video. Bombays are panther like in their dense muscular bodies & movement. True Bombays have unusually rounded heads & eyes, with a mildly compressed face. Their ears are medium size & set wide apart & low on the head. Apart from the black color they're very similar to a Burmese cat in size & shape.

  • @karenyounger2314
    @karenyounger2314 Před 6 lety

    I want to get one, any ideas?

    • @bluecollarlit
      @bluecollarlit Před 5 lety +1

      Check rescues and humane society. All kinds of cats pass through there. My kitty, from a rescue at age 11, is a purring machine, and so bright. ☺

  • @Beves640
    @Beves640 Před 7 lety +1

    Bernie Mac look-alike? RIP!

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety

      Yeah Bernie did kinda look like a Bombay. Lol!

  • @tcswag801
    @tcswag801 Před 5 lety

    Also I hate to be one of those snobby cat people but honestly that doesn't look like the majority of the Bombay is I've seen has a lot of the basic characteristics but something different ? Who knows I may be way off and talking out my rear ?

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      True because the majority of Catz labeled as Bombays on the internet aren't. The cat in the video "Capt Rex" is a Show Champion. High Quality Bombays have features exactly like this cat!

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 3 lety

      @@65FullMoon83 He is also a "British Bombay", which I am surprised she did not mention. American Bombay cats have copper eyes and a bit more of a "Birmese" face..

    • @Melissa-lh6rg
      @Melissa-lh6rg Před rokem

      Herrington::
      Black paws, nose, gold or yellow eyes, I mean .. it's pretty clear that they aren't like random cats either. They have distinct features. I think u commenting on here is a bit like a snooty cat snob. Thinking you have this trophy award winning cat, And the rest of the world has imposters?!
      Find a new hobby instead of acting like u are a Dr at all black cats.
      Maybe u didn't try to sound so cocky, but in comment after comment? Come on?!
      It doesn't matter if u have a imposter or a high quality..
      Just love your cat, and smile when others love theirs. We don't need a hall monitor judging all black cats. It's not that important

  • @paigegoski4016
    @paigegoski4016 Před 8 lety

    My old cat once climbed my curtains cuz my aunties dog came inside

    • @cruzjr4376
      @cruzjr4376 Před 8 lety

      My cat climbs our curtains cause we have these little things that mive and makes moves so he climbs the curtains he already has hundreds of holes on it and he already ripped some of the things

  • @ahhwe-any7434
    @ahhwe-any7434 Před 7 lety

    they're rare? I thought there was a ridiculous amount of them & ppl didn't want to adopt them

    • @morganlindsey6137
      @morganlindsey6137 Před 6 lety +2

      Ahhw E-Any those are usually not Bombays. Bombays are an uncommon breed in the US and people get confused and assume black cats are Bombays and they are not. Bombays should look very distinct as the one in the video does. They are super cute!

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      There are lots of pictures out there on the interweb labeling plain black domestic shorthairs as Bombays. The cat in the video is a TRUE BOMBAY & show Champion!🏆 Any black cat not looking very close in appearance to this animal isn't a Bombay.

  • @scotmaciver
    @scotmaciver Před 3 lety

    This cat looks nothing like a panther. Looks like an owl though. Bombay cats are white anyways....

  • @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv
    @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv Před 5 lety

    My bombya boy have 4 .month

  • @greedwrath1340
    @greedwrath1340 Před 7 lety

    It actually wasn't that hard!

  • @davevirag5423
    @davevirag5423 Před rokem

    😼🙀😻❤️😍👍

  • @VeChainStacks
    @VeChainStacks Před 5 lety +9

    Haha she really felt the need to push in the "woman" made breed.

    • @colaynasakuragi3653
      @colaynasakuragi3653 Před 5 lety +4

      Tom Talty 99% of cat breaded are Women... So it dose fit...

    • @VeChainStacks
      @VeChainStacks Před 5 lety +4

      @@colaynasakuragi3653 Yea. Sure. Yet the common scientific term is "man-made". Sure it implies gender. Yet you just look like a fool trying to push a narrative when you say "woman" made. Like you polarize the subject for no damn reason. People will not take you seriously if you use this language in any scientific and/or professional setting. Use it in a scientific paper? Bye bye credibility. If this lady was really bothered by the term "man-made" because of the implication of gender. She is just perpetuating the issue by using "woman-made". If the terms bother you, find different terms. Don't be a cantankerous asshole.

    • @WHDRWN
      @WHDRWN Před 4 lety +1

      Cat worms in her brains

    • @YourMom-rq6yl
      @YourMom-rq6yl Před 4 lety

      Right? 🙄

    • @Pinkrosessss
      @Pinkrosessss Před 4 lety +2

      Tom Talty it's not that deep and no need to call her an asshole

  • @jaytaylor7740
    @jaytaylor7740 Před 7 lety +1

    Cat does not look like any panther I've ever seen. Also looks like it has mite problems...losing fur above its eyes.

    • @morganlindsey6137
      @morganlindsey6137 Před 6 lety +1

      Jay Taylor that’s actually part of the fur pattern!

    • @desiree2401
      @desiree2401 Před 6 lety +1

      Jay Taylor Its the fur, you idiot.

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +1

      You've obviously not seen a REAL BOMBAY in person.True the head & eye shape isn't like a panther. The head & eye shape are distinct & round. The yellow or orange eye color is panther like. The body & tail is very dense & muscular like a panther. Their body movement is often very panther like as well.

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 3 lety

      @@65FullMoon83 Exactly… All true Bombay cats are a bit balding from the ear to the top of the eye ( also Birmese )...

  • @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv
    @LuisGonzalez-xe7fv Před 5 lety

    Your Cat is brites bombya not americen bombya have gold eyes

  • @aaravkumar2495
    @aaravkumar2495 Před 5 lety

    Bombay cat origin is from india and this cat mostly seen in mumbai locally called bombay in india

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 4 lety +1

      A Bombay cat is not from India- They are a mix of a Burmese ( From a Siamese ) and an American Black cat...

    • @65FullMoon83
      @65FullMoon83 Před 3 lety +3

      @@1953childstar Very True the Bombay Cat, AKA "Parlor Panther" began in the USA & not India. The breed originated from Louisville, Kentucky in the 1950's by cat breeder Nickki Horner who named it "Bombay" in honor of the area in India where black leopards are found.

  • @RyanJames-iv3qu
    @RyanJames-iv3qu Před 3 lety

    "Woman" made breed? Get real you dumb broad.

  • @SapphoKore
    @SapphoKore Před 6 lety +1

    That cat is ugly as crap. That is a terrible combination. That is why there are only 15 breeders left in the world.

    • @paulbennell3313
      @paulbennell3313 Před 6 lety

      Ugly as crap? That's rich!

    • @johannasegura5159
      @johannasegura5159 Před 5 lety

      Lol it's totally ok if she thinks the breed is ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Bombays are one of my favorite breeds....but I think the sphynx and wait for it....the Persian cats are ugly afff. And those are really popular cat breeds. But it's my opinion. Obviously most ppl on this country disagree with me. I'm ok with that. Let's not get mean because the original comment offered her opinion.

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 4 lety

      That cat is not a good representation of a "True Bombay".. They do not have flat faces ( That one does ) and they are a bit more rugged looking. They actually look like a "Back Siamese", considering that they are a Burmese mixed with a Black American shorthair. That cat is brachycephalic and will have eye, sinus and other issues. "True" Bombay cats are much more elegant and regal looking..

    • @1953childstar
      @1953childstar Před 4 lety

      @@johannasegura5159 The cat shown is not a good representaion of a Bombay. It has a Brachycephalic face ( Bombay cats have an angular, regal face )...

    • @johannasegura5159
      @johannasegura5159 Před 4 lety

      @@1953childstar ) I think it looks like a Bombay cat, but 🤷🏾‍♀️ ok. Burmese cats have rather flat faces. Although Bombay's are half black domestic shorthair, breeders that compete go for a shorter snout.
      And yes, they do tend to get stuffed sinuses more often than the mixed American Shorthair cats 😢.
      Burmese cats actually aren't derived from Siamese cats. The Animal Planet did short bios on each breed explaining the myth of Burmese and Siamese being closely related. It's pretty mind blowing.
      Because Bombays are breeded with Burmese, and not Siamese, they do not resemble Siamese cats.
      In order to even enter a cat show, like this Bombay cat has, there are measurement requirements. The US and the UK have different requirements. In the UK, longer snouts are allowed in, and even green eyes. In the US, only short snouted yellow-eyed Bombay cats are allowed to enter. Her cat wouldn't be in this cat show if it didn't meet the measurement prerequisite.
      You can go on the international cat fancier's association website for a rubric and download it as a PDF.
      While there are Bombay cats that have snouts too short to enter, if a cat is participating as a Bombay, it's meeting the standard. If you want to see a poster child representing Bombay cats, take a look at last year's winner for the breed's category. The US competition will have Bombays with rather short snouts. Although it's true that having a face like that will most likely cause issues, most winners are very young and healthy. Judges simply aren't judging on whether or not the cat will have sinus problems in the future. It's all about meeting the aesthetic standards, that change every few decades. Kind of how fashion changes.
      Hopefully this helps. I also hope that I didn't come off aggressive 😅. I'm just sparking a conversation.