LIGHTER ROLLER WEIGHTS = MORE SPEED (FASTER SCOOTER EPISODE 16)
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- čas přidán 27. 10. 2016
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This seems to be the cheapest price I can find for 19x15.5mm Roller weights for the HiPer 2 Engine:
Affiliate Link: ebay.us/ilz7yP
This is the best price I can find for the Variator tool: Affiliate link: ebay.us/ydvBDZ
Affiliate Links to the list of modifications made to this bike:
Clutch springs: ebay.us/sd4CVm
Roller weights: ebay.us/SxFdGM
M6 Jets: ebay.us/KQd9q6
Exhaust: ebay.us/6VxrWu
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Thank you for the huge jump in subscriptions! I certainly don't know everything about scooters so please share your knowledge with me but I will try my best to document my modifications so you can do the same to your bike.
With all the engine modifications complete and put behind us, I am excited to begin transmission tuning. The factory transmission is designed for the perfect balance between fuel consumption, engine longevity, and performance. For my application, however, what I need it maximum performance at the sacrifice of more fuel - (It's a 50cc bike and fuel consumption is frankly the least of my concern!) So with that said, most manufacturer install stock roller weights that are far too heavy. It turns out Piaggio uses 6.5g stock roller weights in this 2005 Piaggio Typhoon. Leo Vince supplies 5.8g weights so might as well give it a try before I purchase even lighter roller weights! Piaggio report this engine makes peak horsepower at 9500RPM. With that said however, Leo Vince never really supplied any information at which optimal RPM this expansion chamber exhaust pipe is designed for. However, it's elongated shape and reviews on the internet tends to suggest this pipe is made for the higher 9000+RPM. This video will show you how to install the Leo Vince 5.8G roller weights into the transmission. Hope you enjoy!
Think of engines as an air pump. The more air you can get into the combustion chamber, the more power there is available - with the proper fuel mixture. Our previous modifications showed you how to allow the engine to suck in more air per stroke while the expansion chamber in the exhaust works to keep that air fuel mixture inside the chamber from escaping. Obviously, this power will come at the sacrifice of more noise, poorer fuel mileage, and more engine wear. Therefore always modify your motorcycle at your own discretion based on your own needs. Check out my other videos in the meantime to make your 50cc scooter much more useful and fun to ride in the city!
Hope you find this video helpful and please like & subscribe for further scooter tuning videos!
If you want your bike to bury the speedo needle like ours did in Episode 1, subscribe and stay tuned for future episodes. We will show you how to destrict the bike from factory, install the Leo Vince ZXR exhaust, open up the intake, and modify the transmission. Come along with us as we transform this little 50cc scooter from a slow and boring bike to a fast and peppy machine that will do circles around traffic!
Other bikes that shares the same platform/engine includes Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia, Peugot, Gilera, TPH, Typhoon, LT50, LX50, ET50, Scarabeo, Stalker, Zip, Fly, etc.
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Thanks for this video of yours, it really helps me a lot. 👍🇵🇭
Thank you for watching.
pinoy here sir.. question lng po ano po ba best roller for 150 honda click
Also depends a bit on the pressurespring in the torquedriver and the type/brand of variator. With a standard vario my kymco dj with same exhaust (tecnigas) ran best with 5.8 rollers. With naraku vario 6 works beter to keep it in the powerband. I use a heavy pressurespring and clutchsprings in a standard torquedrive and clutch.
well i ca see by your last awnser that you are essentialy going for what i explaind.what is the engines powerband?is it only hp or only tork or a cobination of both?by only changing the rollers to ligther ones you make the tranmision hold lower gear with higer rpm.so the engine rews more before the cluch in the back engages and the wheel moves.rigth?i am saying that it is a cobination of cluch spring tention in the back and rollers should bee done at the same time.by losing tention on the 2-3 small springs for2-3 cluch shoes it engages at lower rpm if you tighen them or change collor springs(they are often collor coded)to hevyer springs it engages with higher rpm.if your weel starts to go at max hp as you indicated is the same as saying you want to get the wheel moving at max rpm.then you have only about 500rpm for the redline.if you mean that it should catch where the engine curves powerband is at max you look at the tork curve.it should start to move the wheel where the tork has max peak.around 5-6000rpm or 7000 one some.if it engages at let say 6000rpm you have around 4000rpm to get thru the cvt gear range so you at max rpm 9000where hp max is and 500 more before the redline.i revisit cvt regularly to bee shure.have done this for 40years.if you can point out where i am wrong i gladly corect after i have confirmd by teksbook on cvt.you comment i anwserd to was you sad litgher rooler so it engages at max hp wich is meaningless.you have no more rpm to go on as soon as the bike move then
LIGHTER ROLLER WEIGHTS = MORE SPEED. that made me laugh.
You know what's funnier? Medemblikker favorited "How to get a girlfriend" video on youtube.
FIFTYmil damn that was a Good comment *kuch kuch
kuch kuch? czcams.com/video/S9DsCP9Th7Y/video.html ? No wonder you're still looking for a girlfriend.
FIFTYmil im actually gay so im not looking for a girlfriend :)
glad you came out of the closet about that and gave up liking videos on how to get a girlfriend. well done ;)
great advice keep up the good work
Thank you for the kind words
Your videos are great, i’ve learned heaps in the last hour or so going through the scooter mods. Awesome job, thanks so much!
Hi sir, i have scoot 250cc it mentioned max hp at 8500 rpm..how does this information help me to tune the variator?
I have a piaggio zip 2013 and its fully de restricted and has a yasuni z pipe, i have upjetted the carb and put in lighter rollers however it struggles to pick up speed off start and The power band doesnt really start until about 10mph then it is quick and it will top out at about 55 mph. What do you think could be causing this problem?
Those symptoms are typically the result of the carb not providing proper fueling either too much or too little. Assuming you go WOT from a standstill, it is possible your carb is running too rich and there is an oversupply of fuel at low RPMs but that is just one possible explanation.
Can i use ligher rollers on a stock variator? Sorry that im late
Yo do u know how much does weight rolls from a stock Piaggio zip 4t 2017?
its about finding the sweet spot ,, so that you can acc. with best rpm all the way from 0 -> max speed ,,, belt must not slip = heating issue
The term "sweet spot" is ambiguous. More objectively, the correct approach is finding the rpm that produces the peak horsepower - if maximum performance is desired. Obviously this come at the cost of poor fuel efficiency, more belt wear/slip, shorter engine/transmission life, and more heat being produced.
Do you reckon I could do this my self as I still need to find what size my rollers are I have a sinnis twist 50 I believe my rollers are 6.5g my moped goes quite fast but it quickly slows down on hill going 30 right down to 20 even 15 what do roller weights do you recommend
If it's performing well as you said, but suffers on hills that's expected. You would now need to look into extracting more power out of the engine now with engine modifications
Good video. I'm new to scooters. Looking to get a 2019 NRG50. Dont see anything in the description title that says the type of bike your working on. Any of these vids apply to the nrg50?
The video title says episode 16. The scooter being worked on is most likely introduced in the first episode ie. episode 1. What engine and carburetor is equipped on the nrg50?
Thanks for the info brother! more power to your channel! new subs here
Thanks for the sub!
Great video. Will try those weights on my 2019 NRG.
Also. Saw your side kick stand. Were did you get it? Cant find any in this country. Hate the center stand for every day use. See many for sale on ebay.... but cant figure out how it mounts.
There's a hole in the frame underneath the scooter. A square nut is placed inside the hole and the kickstand is tightened onto it. The square shape of the nut prevents it from rotating so it would allow the bolt to tighten. You could probably make that critical piece yourself and fit any kickstand to your scooter in that sense. I purchased the kickstand from a local store but they have sinced closed down. I remember seeing that kickstand on many european scooter tuning stores - just a generic chinese piece!
@@FIFTYmil thanks for the response. The links on ebay have expired. I misspelled a few things on my last post. Will the weights work on my 2019 NRG? Are all 50cc Piaggio weights the same? Or do I need a specific one for my bike? Thanks.
I installed 4.3 gram rollers, and it was going like with half power. Then i used 3 4.3 gram and 3 old ones 6.3-6.4 (Can't remember) and it was going OK, but a bit slower, than with stock. Did your 5.7 was better than stock? I drive Gilera Runner SP 50 2010
It depends on the RPM you see. What RPM do you see accelerating with 4.3g rollers? Assuming you installed the roller weights correctly, your combination of 4.3 and 6.3g roller is equivalent to 5.3g roller weight force exerted on the variator. Again, what is the rpm for the 4.3/6.3 combo?
Very Well Explained great 👍 🎉
Nice video!!!
I have a vespa lx 50 4 time stroke, stock weight is 6.1 i think.
Which weight do you think is the best for some more acceleration but not lossing top sped?
get 80 cc bbk with camshaft.4t dont like to run at high rpm.
What rpm do you see at full throttle during acceleration?
My 150cc gy6 has 13g weights from the factory, cold start 1600rpm warmed up 2000~2300. It takes off at 4000rpm like a clutch on a 5 speed bike,,,,, so what are 13g weights mean?
Hi will it ruin my c.v.t if I ran 3. 9GM.Rollers. instead of the 6?
Yow mil! I have my scooter 155c Yamaha Aerox, whats the best weight for that??
I looked up the specs: 11.1kW / 8,000 rpm. What RPM do you ride at right now? If it's lower than 8000RPM, get lower weights to achieve operating the tranmission at 8000RPM and you will get the best acceleration and top speed out of your engine (at the cost of greater fuel consumption and engine wear, of course)
Lighter rollers give it a better start hevy rollers give better topspeed
Not realy
@@RubaSon yes realy
Bullshit
czcams.com/video/VaEpSTVDmAY/video.html watch this and forget everything else...
True
will it consume more fuel if i change it to lighter variators?
Yes lighter rollers if less fuel efficient.
What is with the clutch springs?
That variateur tool also works on the 50cc 4 stroke engines and on the older Piaggio/Puch models (with this type of transmission)
JRC yup that is correct
How much more mph did you get just for that little of gram difference?
I need help, I was going to take off my v-ring, and I don't know how I'm going to put it back
Send me a picture. Which part of the scooter are you talking about?
Great video, liked and subbed ⚡️
Thomas Larsen thank you 👍🏻
What the size for x22gt 250cc automatic motorcycle
First Xmax250 using CVT. the hype of light and heavy roller got me confuse. based on one weight, should one choose the roller weight where RPM hits almost where the peak HP of a bike. in this case factory spec max power at 7,000rpm, hence i should be changing or not change should my rpm hits 6,500-6,800rpm ? if that is correct, am confused as my RPM odometer shows 8,800rpm red line. my biggest dilemma, should i based on 7,000 or 8,800 rpm.
Bro if your scooter have peak power at 7000 rpm and you want max acceleration you must setup cvt to hold engine at 7000 rpm 👌🏻 redline is pointless 👍🏻
I really enjoyed your video, thanks. I have a Kymco 500cc and want to make it quicker. I'm tempted to go for a after market exhaust and/or rollers but would I also need to up jet and fine tune also. I'm also thinking about a slip on exhaust if less work is required as opposed to the full system.
Jose Fosterini lighter roller weights would be the less invasive modification with probably one of the biggest improvement.
Thanks. So prob just a new belt and rollers then
Jose Fosterini typically 500cc should have a more advanced variation system. Some even use two sets of roller weights. I would first install a tachometer to determine what rpm your current transmission is working at. After that I would tune the roller weights lighter or heavier depending on your needs. The closer your transmission works at peak horsepower rpm, the faster it will be at the sacrifice of other factors
Hi,I just got a 2nd hand yp400 majesty scooter..(all stock)
Any tips/advice on what to change etc..?
Thks in advance.:)
For starters I like changing the roller weights because they are cheap, easy to change, and gives one of the best improvements.
FIFTYmil ok..thks for the input.:)
can u tell me the diameter of the pulleys of the variator and clutch belt pulleys ? Thank you
We're hit with a -40 degrees C cold spell here. Snow everywhere. I'll try to get the diameters for you as soon as possible!
thanks
Question: 150cc gy6 on a kart. It seems that I have to really press the pedal taking off and then left off the pedal once I get to my preferred cruising speed which is far from max speed. The RPMs just seem to high , too early. I don't care if I lose 10-15mph on top end....what can I do to make it engage faster so It doesn't have to go so high of rpms before my preferred speed is reached? I was told heavier weights?
So you're saying you feel like you need to rev to a really high RPM before the go kart moves?
@@FIFTYmil nah....its more like it revs too high at low speed then like 8mph 4000rpm then I can let off pedal and within a couple 100ft it will be running 15mph at 3100rpm. Very hard to explain via typing.
Then try heavier rollers. If it overrevs your rollers are too light.
@@delahayenator thanks....I have purchased a shim kit as I have seen many videos stating this would help with take off, low end speed, and over revving. I haven't had a chance to put them on yet but will be doing that very soon. I've just had too much going on and will likely be changing the oil to the correct (wet clutch safe) velocity oil. I may have mentioned above that I purchased this UTV 2nd hand with less than 300miles. The original owner said he had someone replace the wet clutch but I have no idea what oil they used. Once I know I have the correct oil in it....I will check out the outer sheave & rollers for any wear (as well as find out their weight), and add the shim kit....if all of that doesn't improve my take off response and the high revving, I will then be looking into changing the weight of the rollers. I hope I can get it to what I think is normal or as it should be. This is my first UTV but I have worked on a lot of ATVs , scooters, gy6 gokarts and feel something isn't right. Thanks again for your reply .
man, this really helpful
Thank you
Is it okay to put 8g rollers to my 115cc engine?
Need to know RPMS to tell.
Great video bro this will help new comers a lot
Thank you!
Thank you for watching.
Do you have a link for the exhaust
Hi Thks four your exllente video I have a Peugeot V-Clic 50cc 4T whitch best size rollers you recommend four best top speed thank you 😮
What I mean does all rollers have big holes and small holes
Do all rollers have different sides holes
Can you please update the links dont work any more
Will your modification lower the RPM to which the wheel will start rotating?
The rpm at which the clutch engages and spins the wheel is not affected by changing roller weights. It is determined by the clutch springs.
What about a 4 stroke 50cc ? Would 5gs be good? I just want a little more take off speed
Check out my other video on 4 stroke 50cc. While 5g is generally recommended, you can optimize for the best by determining what rpm your engine is working at. Everyone is different due to ride weight, tuning, altitude, etc.
hey there, your videos are really useful! I have a kymco agility city 50cc moped and it is slow at accelerating from stationary. however after some time it reaches a decent top speed of nrly 40mph. It has not been modified at all. I'm looking for my moped to be quicker at accelerating and more responsive, what would you recommend doing? I don't mind sacrificing top speed. thanks for your help or anyone elses!
Max, I would determine where peak power is made on your engine (usually a rough number is reported on the manufacturer specs), and try to either increase engine horsepower or more economically viable change the roller weights to approach peak RPM power for an easy direct approach. You can buy roller weights at this affiliate link rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?ff3=4&toolid=11800&pub=5575244884&campid=5337989730&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D16x13%2Broller%26_sop%3D15
The exact weight you need is entirely dependent on a number of factors, however. Normally, however, most variator weights come slightly heavier from manufacturer for improved engine reliability, longevity and efficiency. Choosing weights that are 1-1.5grams lighter is a conservative approach for slightly better acceleration and top speed at the cost of making the engine work harder and without any other mods.
Ok thanks a lot for your help!! One last stupid question, I'm not very good with mopeds, why do I need to know the peak power? And also would an improved clutch spring or whatever make my moped more responsive? Thanks again
CVT transmission allows an engine to operate at a fixed RPM across a continuously variable gear ratio. Unlike a conventional manual transmission where you have a fixed gear ratio in each gear, with a CVT you deliver the same amount of power across ALL gear ratio ensuring the best fuel efficiency in stock factory settings. If you tune your transmission to operate at peak horsepower RPM, they you ensure that the gear ratios are being realized with the best acceleration/top speed.
Stiffer clutch engagement springs is equivalent to reving your engine higher before engaging the clutch. This will allow the engine to reach peak horsepower quicker, reduce chance of bogging the engine down when power is insufficient, and that could be perceived as making the moped more responsive. I do not find them that helpful because they tend to put more stress and wear on the clutch
What's the best mod for getting more speed on hills?
I'm not bothered about acceleration or top speed.
Love your videos.
More speed to go up hills mean you probably need to lower the weight of the roller weights so your engine can operate at a higher RPM while travelling uphill.
Where can I order some doctor clutch springs
It depends on the set up of the scooter. If you are in stock mode you will lose high end speed and increase take of. You have to get a mid range to get take of and high speed at the same time mixing heavy and light weights in variator example: 1 heavy roller: 1 light roller and so on and trie diferent grams... been ther donne that! PIAGGIO NRG 1995.
Absolutely wrong. Your choice of wording already illustrates lack of knowledge. Define "high end speed"? Define" Increased take off?" and define what makes a weight go suddenly from heavy to light weight. Might as well use a butt dyno to measure how much faster your scooter got!
As you can see in my videos I illustrate with concrete evidence each step I make and how it affects the scooter as a whole. Tuning is on a spectrum and not "High end vs low end" black and white as you suggested. If you understand the concept, you wouldn't need to try different gram weights as you have done and waste money, time and have a bunch of spare roller weights left over.
FIFTYmil i have been ther donne that. I have a piaggio nrg 1st model year 1995. I have had many kits ... Now i have a high end motor on her that i had built tunedported malossi team 2. I know how it works. Your video is correct but lighter weights gives you better take of more rpms loose. Heavyer gives you more high end speed and loses take of. Mix lighter and heavy rollers on vario 3 of each like i said and be the judge. Been ther donne that. Level 1 on stock engine. Go check some of my nrg r1 videos. Im the mecanic of my own scooter. I know this type of engines long gonne. Im 38 years old. Since 1995 i have this nrg ive donne many experiments with varios rollers ignitions cilinder kits exhausts giglers you name it... Trie what i said about rollers on your kind of set up amd amaze your self riding her with more take of and more high end speed at same time. Perfect for city streets.
PIRATE SPOT having "been there done that" and a "high end motor" doesn't speak volume about your (lack of) understanding. Can you instead provide proof that is quantifiable? What exactly would classify as a light weight and a heavy weight if I were to mix them as you suggested? What is the net force each roller weight exert on the variator ramps?
Your technic method of good words is really lack of good knowledge and lack of humble caracter.
Ok your the one is really great and all of that and i dont miss my time with this kind of person. Becouse is like trying to help some one and the person dosent care about it. Only of his own knowledge... take care. I do my tuning by trie and experiment, tips from specialized tuning mecanics not from such a video regarding your own ways. Your to ofensive/defensive in your ways of social comunication in coments. So i dont use does methods in my life. Im a humble person not a geek. Im a non ofensive person not a ofensive one. I try to help when ever i can... If you dosent seem to care about my experience regarding my words no cofidence at all in my experience i wont waist my time! You only question me, dont seem to care about what i said. So i dindt dismiss your video, i dind said your rong and i dindt say that you not explain well. I said trie mix roolers and see increase take of and more top end speed. If you dosent seem to be confident enough on my words and i say this with no arm to you or your scooter, only trie to give you a nice tip to see increase performance. So if your to technic and go only for that factory set of words its ok... I use EXPERIENCE not only technic methods. And to give other tip, some use 2+2+2 rollers of diferent weights in variator. Example: 2x 3g + 2x 3.5g + 2x 4g with the right distribution of them. Like i said before, 1x 3g next 1x 3.5g next 1x 4g and the next 3 rollers the same.
To adjust and variate the grams that you whant to get in the scale in total.
Dont judge every thing or every one from your methods or technics from base factory only and think its the only way to do it. Your rong thinking like that man...Chill out man! With this i end my conversation with you. Take care and God bless!
PIRATE SPOT I have no idea what your rambling on about. All I saw was mixing weights. But answer this question: if a variator has two ramps in which you mix weights, one 5g and one 4g, is the net force exerted on the belt equivalent to average of the two weights? That is 2x4.5g. The effects would be exactly the same as using 2x4.5g weight instead of having to mix them. AND You do not get any additional benefits mixing a 4g with a 5g IF there are 4.5g commonly available to purchase.
You only found benefits in mixing weights because certain weights are not available to purchase, such as 4.785g average or simply you do not know the best weights for your bike and resorted to mixing guess and check.
As mentioned in my video, it is also very important to note that when a manufacture indicates a weight is 5g, manufacturing tolerance often results in weights that weighs more or less than 5g. Measuring them first and making adjustment as necessarily would make tuning a more scientific approach rather than a bunch of trial and error as you have done.
Curios, why are rollers never solid? is it a heat issue?
Weight, but they do exist I've had solid ones.
Any tips for roller weights for Yamaha Aerox 155cc? It's a straight 13's (stock). My RPM is stuck at 8000 and the limit is 10000. How can i maximize my RPM to 10000? What rollers would i use? 11x3 and 13x3? Or 12x3 and 13x13? Thanks! 🙏🏻
Alpha Vaughn it seems peak horsepower is made at 8000rpm. Unless I have actual data to prove that more power can be made beyond 8000rpm (typically with engine modification) it would actually make the bike slower operating beyond 8000rpm?
I reach 112kph within 8000rpm but when it hits the 8000 mark it never goes up but i feel when the road is a little longer i can reach 118 to 120kph. Top speed of all stock is 122kph but i change my pipe to open. If i upgrade my pulley set, center spring and cluth lining and bell would i reach the topspeed faster?
My PIAGGIO NRG POWER eats tones of RPMS before even moving around 7k rpms and it barely rolls. What’s your suggestions in roller weight and clutch spring
Same thing but with qoud bike
how to improve top speed for long distance ride? heavier roller and lighter roller make what result? can u explain,sorry for my english
Can you define long distance? Forcing the engine to operate at maximum horsepower rpm will be inefficient and reduces longevity but will improve top speed. Alternatively, increasing engine power over the entire power band will increase overall top speed as well.
@@FIFTYmil my scooter now run 110kmh on top speed and i ride daily 100km mil..what the best way to increase its top speed to 130kmh or higher and maintaning its durability for 100km mil ride? yamaha avantiz 125,should i bore up or modify the cvt ? what u means increasing total power band? can u share the spec or what part should i modify for this kind of set up..a setting that will not decrease my scooter durability..sorry bad english,hope u understand friend
Amirul Shafiq unfortunately, the scooter is the perfect compromise between performance and longevity from the factory already. Any modification will result in improvement in one at the sacrifice of the other. The best option, in your case as you have said, is to increase engine displacement/bore up.
any tips for me i have gilera runner 50cc sp what best roller for it ? i'm on heavy one for now but when i test it on pick i mean not moving i ruch 11 rijme meetter but on rode only to 9 why and what i need to do to get it to 11 ( sorry for my bad english)
Find the published Peak horsepower rpm for your gilera runner (On the piaggio website?). Install a tachometer to see what rpm you see while full throttle accelerating. If the RPM is below the peak HP rpm, reduce the weight. If its above the peak hp rpm, increase the weight.
@@FIFTYmil thx for replay but its hard to find part to replace my broken speedmetre i only lay on rpm like when test it without moveing its up to 11 but on move only to 9 and if run on full speedp its drop rpm to 7 and half or 8 i'm really try to make it faster as i can lol
Yassine freeman get a $6 tachometer, wrap it around the spark plug wire, and tell me your rpm locked in during acceleration and also at top speed.
I have the same scales but mine are covered in drug residue....
isabel Hughes I cleaned mine before I film ;)
Lmao
mike stradling are u a drug lord?? Few grams is quite a bit for scales 3 pointers are the ones
neuclearb0mb few grams is minor fam 😂
@@gmsmith5678 ml
Where did you get the variator holder tool
In japan, but the same or similar one can be bought on ebay for a lot less money.
Your clutchbell is burnt, means that your clutch is slipping (draging) and your belt is already first gear, here's an idea for you to learn, cvt transmission is RPM dependent , if your just replacing part without knowing your PowerBand it's useless, the belt must be touching the bushing of pulley side so that you have your first gear better acceleration, to do that you have to add washer to the bushing before the drive face to increase the gap depends how thick you need, for belt to touch the bushing, second thing modifie your torque drive slide piece pin slot to make open, and close of the tourqe drive wider/narrower so that you increase your low end n top speed, third thing center spring of the cluth the harder the spring rate the more duration of every gears, (manual transmission analogy) same with the clutch spring again cvt is RPM dependent so that putting a harder spring to build RPM if your stock 1000rpm center spring 1200 rpm clutch spring is a good combination, ROLLERS are for you to work on, just use straight weight and don't do combination thank me later.
Most of the increased wear came from changing to a stiffer clutch engagement spring. This modification is a quick and temporary solution to accomodate that
I have a Yamaha RayZR 125 bs6 and l wanna ram up the speed so how much weight of rollers should l use? Also should you suggest using Dr. Pulley rollers instead?
Could you tell me what RPM you are seeing right now while accelerating and also while you are at max speed? It all depends if you still under the powerband
@@FIFTYmil at max rpm l got only 7.3hp
@@felixv2432 Thank you, and what rpm do you see what accelerating?
@@FIFTYmil l think its 6
I had a yamaha slider 50cc Evrything is stock but my problem is. I can’t reach more than 50km What’s your advice should i change the weight or what ??
I need to know your RPM at 50km to know if you're hitting the rev limiter or simply your engine does not have enough power.
I have honda crea scoopy (same as honda metropolitan, just manufactured for Japan region) it is still running on stock variator and hits 57km/h
I don't care about racing and super response. All i need is just a little better torque on low speed and better top end speed. maybe 65km/h or so would be perfectly fine
any recommendations?
What RPM are you currently accelerating at and at top speed? Changing the roller weights to work at the factory reported peak hp rpm would give you the results you're after.
FIFTYmil About the engine RPM, I dont know exactly how many it is but from the engine sound here it what I think.
For best performance there are two main things to look for: engine performance and transmission (variator). The engine on my scooter is working pretty fine I think because I always take care of it. The problem is in variator I guess. I dissassambled the variator and saw the the rollers have some flat spots. Right now, the scooter is experiencing hard acceleration (needs more time to reach top speed then it supposed to need).
During the top speed, I hear the engine high pitch. Meaning, it reaches its maximum rpm and still doesnt have maximum speed. (If the engine couldnt afford the overall weight at this speed (57km/h) it should have different, lower pitch, specifical sound)
I think the engine is capable of reaching better speed, just need better transmission through variator. As I wrote before 65km/h or so would be perfectly fine for me. with better acceleration. For this the variator should have lower transmission ratio on low speed for acceleration and higher transmission on high rpm for better top-end speed.
Just want to know how I can achieve this result
To achieve a lower ratio and also a higher ratio, you might consider 1) slider weights (at the appropriate weight which can only determined by your RPM) and 2) Aftermarket CDI.
Doing those two mods even with a stock variator, 645m above sea level and 180lb rider I had no problem accelerating to stay ahead of traffic and also achieve a GPS verified 70kmh on the Honda Ruckus.
FIFTYmil Can you reccomend how to choose slider weights and where I can find aftermarked CDI?
Knowing the RPM will tell you whether your slider weights are correct using Honda's max hp rpm as a general guideline - otherwise it is just a guess and check. For example, on the Honda Zoomer the reported figures are 5hp @ 8000RPM, but a dyno revealed that power continues to climb and peak at 10,000RPM (past the rev limiter). Thus, the combination of lighter weights that operate the CVT at 10,000RPM and the installation of a CDI which advances timing and also removes the rev limiter allows you to achieve that extra power.
Aftermarket CDI's for the metropolitan/scoopy are available from companies such as POSH, NCY, Daytona, etc.
Where is the Japanese scooters that Yamaha Zuma’s 125?
They call them Zuma in japan too
Bro please 🙏 can u make full clutch system in mod for wheelie
Hey I am from India.
Here in the scooter/moped the mechanics put grease in the variator rollers is it right?
I am facing handle vibration on my Honda Activa 110cc
Some models of bike do require lubricating roller weights from the oem service manual. I am not familiar with the activa but make sure you check whether the grease is required. Many mechanics do things without actually consulting the original service manual.
@@FIFTYmil thank you
No ... It is not right.. !! I've experienced the same.
Why put the smaller side in the direction of motion, it would seem that would force the inside part to slide out to the back which has the larger opening.
Can i remove three weights or one weight is better ? And Will there be a problem later? I have a 150 cc chineese scooter V150 SS
It is not recommended to remove the weights
i don't want a fast scooter. i just want a high accelerated scooter. and of course without compromising my fuel. what grams should i use ? - any suggestion ?
Me too
A scooter that accelerates fast is considered a faster scooter in my definition. Fuel consumption will be compromised when you're asking for more acceleration as governed by science.
If I change my weight rollers, do I have to modify the clutch?
Depending on how significant of a weight change and how long you anticipate to keep the scooter, I would say no, it's not immediately necesary.
FIFTYmil my weights rollers are 8,5g so if I replace them for 9g do you think the clutch will engage on the idle
@@chrislapointe7861 Changing the roller weights does not affect the rpm that the clutch engages. For CVT transmission, the clutch engagement rpm is determined by how stiff the clutch springs are.
As always great video. Very well explained. I like the idea of weighting all the rollers and place them across from each other depending on their weight
Thanks! It's definitely a small and perhaps insignificant step but I think it shouldn't be overlooked for sure.
All the little details combined is what makes it a great performing ride in the end 🖒
Where did you find that two part white variator cover?
It's the stock variator cover on the Piaggio Typhoon
Oh. I just saw the back and assumed it was a ruckus.
I modified my Yamaha mio scooter from 115 cc to 160cc i still have the stock rollers what weight should i get, i mainly use it for scooter ciruit races here in the philippines
Pablo Diablo depends on your circuit and engine. The goal is you have the transmission operate at max hp rpm at all times
FIFTYmil i commented on one of the best circuit racers here in philippines he reccomended Straight 8
What is the rpm of your clutch spring ?
I chose to stick with the stock clutch springs for less aggressive launches and longer clutch life.
@@FIFTYmil did you also use the stock drive face and pulley of your scooter
Please clarify this.the scooter starts slowing down hugely as soon as the accelerator is let go .why wont it run freely atleast some distance when the gas is cut off .i know i am comparing automatic scooters with geared bikes .yet i would like to know why is it?
You sort of answered the question already! The fact that it is a CVT allows it to smoothly increase gear ratio as well as decrease during deceleration. While the decreasing ratio is directly a result of level of force exerted by the driven spring amongst other variables, the fact remains that during deceleration the cvt transmission is constant "lowering gears." So in a manual transmission, if you were in fifth gear and let off the throttle, the gear ratio remains the same. Conversely in CVT, when you let off the throttle, it is equivalent to the gear box automatically dropping down from 5th to 4th to 3rd and so on. You would observe a similar slowing down effect if you were to downshift your manual transmission as you lift off the throttle.
@@FIFTYmil thats what i hate about cvt technology
@@yogeshjaiswal4111 It's not necessary something that's despicable but rather just the individual traits of each system! It all boils down to what you need.
Can I get a setting for my roller weights so it cud go faster up hill
Can you tell me what bike, what is the peak hp rpm, and what rpm you see when going up hill?
FIFTYmil it's a 50 cc typhoon
Popskull Dur dur rpm?
FIFTYmil my rpm gag ain't workin..can't I just get a setting that will work for both flat an a lil more for hills
I'm using 5.5g weights
hello i have a scooter with 200 cc sym hd2 which rollers do you recommend
What is the stock roller weight and what rpm do you see during max acceleration??
HD2 200 is already tuned towards good acceleration, not for top end speed.
The stock rollers are 16 gm. I tried Dr. Pulley 15 g. There is a slight increase in mid-range pick-up, however, it is not worth the effort on this scoot, IMO.
Always pinch the belt so it's slack and free moving behind the variator. Also to get more mph use a few shims between the variator.
Thanks for that
Thank you for watching!
when you put lighter roller what is the effect with that system making more rmp the engine ?
Roller weights are equivalent to swinging a yo-yo around in a loop. The heavier the yo-yo, the more force that is being generated - so much that it may even shatter a glass if you swung the yoyo at it. However, that force is dependent on how strong you are able to swing it (ie. your arm is the engine). If i replace the yoyo with a boat anchor, chances are you won't even be able to swing it at all.
Thus, a more optimized yoyo (usually lighter than stock) will let you swing the yoyo faster and deliver more net force than a heavier one and therefore you see the higher rpms.
Would 7 gram weights be good for mine... It goes up to 4500rpm
50cc
7g weights get you up to 4500rpm?
My moped goes 4500 rpm with stock weights what would 7 gram weights do
I put 6.5 gram roller weights in my moped and it just slows it right down should I try a lighter-weight size instead
does it slow the acceleration or the top speed
@@youraveragetable4337 I tried putting 4 gram roller weights in my moped I got my speed back
For 50cc 4t what's best weight for not loosing top speed but to get better acceleration and uphill climb?
Get the power as close to peak horsepower RPM published by the manufacturer for your scooter. eg. Max 4.5hp @ 9000RPM, then aim for 9000rpm
@@FIFTYmil what's the best for 2.5 horse power?
@@dejvid8580 2.5horsepower produced at what rpm?
I actually user 11g flyball in my aerox, any suggestion to use 10g ?
What rpm do you see using 11g flyball at with full throttle during acceleration? What about at top speed?
at full throttle , its rpm is about 9000 . I dont actually runs at my top speed because of the traffic here in manila, 109 is my top speed.
1000 clutch spring
1500 center spring
@@darylhernandez1988 What is your engine's peak horsepower rpm?
it reaches almost or i think 10000 RPM
Buddy i replaced 22 gram rollers of my (150cc 4 stroke vespa) with 18 gram rollers. But i can't see any improvement.
Any advice?
Can you tell me the RPM you see with 22 gram rollers and also now with 18 gram roller while applying full throttle and accelerating?
@@FIFTYmil Thank you very much for responding. I must check that in a service
station. May i know why you ask about rpms? The scooter power is 11.4 bhp @7000rpm and Torque is 11.5 Nm@5500 rpm.
@@peacefulman6672 If you're looking for more power delivery, your aim is to tune the transmission to operate at max engine rpm during acceleration. One way to do that is to lower or increase the weight of the roller weights
@@FIFTYmil After posting my reply a sad thing happened. One day i raised the throttle while riding and when my scooter
speedo was moving past 90+ suddenly my belt got destroyed. Yes i said destroyed because the belt got torned badly and only threads and sponges dropped out when the case was opened. I sat near a bridge and waited for the service staff to arrive. Missed my afternoon meal and was there for nearly 2 hours (In India vespa service centres are not common and are
only at a few places). First the scooter was made to run with an old used cvt belt. The next day i took the scooter to the service station(50 kms away from my locality) and they replaced it with a new cvt belt.They told me its my fault as i changed the rollers. They told this happened because of the roller change.
The 18 gram roller weights which i used in the scooter actually belong to
Aprilia storm 125 (Aprilia scooters are sold here along with Vespa). I replaced the rollers again with the default vespa 22 gram rollers.
I am now riding at 70-80 kmph as my scooter engine must be serviced (completed 54,000 kms) and i will start
to think about this matter again after engine service.
Also i came across a kit for my model
Malossi Variator for Vespa VXL 150.
Will malossi kits really boost acceleration
and speed?
scooterpartsco.com/malossi/01-malossi-master-part-list/malossi-variator-for-vespa-vxl-150
Thank you very much for your replies.
@@peacefulman6672 Thank you for sharing your story with me. I think we learn from your extremely that extreme caution and care must be taken to ensure all moving parts are in good working order before attempting any modification. Imagine if it was a brake failure at 90+ kmh, it would be a lot more dangerous and possibly fatal.
In my scooter there’s too much noise coming from clutch box I already changed belt, clutch shoe, clutch shoe bearing but still noise coming like motor.will you give me solution?
Check the gearbox
@@jasonkennedy8375 already checked everything is fine
@@kalyangautam7345 Can you describe the noise? When did the noise first appear?
FIFTYmil when I opened the clutch box I found variator roller has been damaged I only cleaned everything after that that noise started to coming
@@kalyangautam7345 Can you give me some more details? You opened transmission and cleaned out the case with what?
It's not a transmission case it's a (cvt belt cover) it holds the variator and clutch and belt the transmission is located right on the other side of the cvt belt cover
Richard McCracken are you talking about the final drive case?
How can i increase my honda sfx50 speed it won't go up to 35 mph thanks
Bruh seriously it doesn't go up 35???? I have a 50 cc scooter and it goes till 57 or 59 the best advice is buy light rollers
@@stevedjojokaryo6406 thanks I put 6.3g variator still same 33 to 35 Mph max speed
@@aA-lg1se You might have a speed limiter, same the the one found on my honda ruckus 50cc.
Thanks for your reply can I do any thing about my speed limit.
good vid
Thank you for the comment!
Hi
my stock variator roller size is 20x15mm 18g, Can I use 18x14 16g?
What do you think? Have you tried putting one in the variator
How about u use 20x15 with lower weight
@@rosegold-beats Yes that would work
Do u habe to use a torque wrench
Yes
I use an old tennis shoe to hold the kickstarter gear while i remove it, works well, free
The variator tool is so cheap it's essentially free also.
Haha. Me too. An old fucking shoe wedged between the belt and the drive face/variator. Engineering at it's finest! 😂.
Locking pliers and a washcloth always worked well for me
The tool was less than $10.
@@FIFTYmil Price isn't the issue. If locking pliers and washcloth works fine, I'll keep using them. BTW, lighter weights means less top speed with better acceleration.
i drive with 8,5 g rollers and it goes 55kph, so if i want more topspeed what should i buy? sry if im to late. Btw nice video
It depends on what rpm and whether your engine is already performing at its best capacity. What rpm do you see at 55kph and what motorcycle do you have?
@@FIFTYmil 7100 rpm and i have a peugeot speedfight 3 2 stroke
Great video bro
Thank you for watching, please subscribe!
What your scooter faster change that and change the wheel to skinny wheel
yes but we dont want skinny wheels.
Skinny wheel are fragile and sucks at cornering
Lighter weights = more acceleration, same top end. At a certain point in speed, the variator is fully wound out/extended/“done it’s thing” and acts the same a fixed cog. The increase in road speed after that point is gained from increasing engine RPM. Roller weights are immaterial after this point.
That is a good point, but you're assuming that the engine is capable of pushing the roller weight all the way out (eg. pushing the belt to the furthest perimeter of the pulley). That is not true. You can verify how far out the belt travels on the variator driven face by drawing a sharpie mark on the driven face. In most cases, improper weights would make the engine struggle to push the belt all the way out. The point in which the engine struggles to push the belt out any further, RPM will increase because the engine does not have enough power to increase the transmission ratio.
Faster better speed in stop and go traffic, But you lose your top end speed, I thought I would test this video and found this out.. I live in the country and I might have to stop ever 6 - 10 miles. With heavy rollers I can get up to 48 mph, Which is nice, with 7g rollers I max out at 26 mph, That speed loss is very weird.. Very quicker if I get bellow the handle bars.. With the lighter rollers I'm perfect for stop and go traffic, parking lots, stop signs etc etc.. You should base what I said on what you should need :). Plus off of FIFTYmil's post. Also I'm now using the DLH variator pack. Pst do you have a video on how to replace the little springs on the clutch?
Not necessarily true - For example I went from 8g rollers to 6.5g rollers without changing anything else, and my top speed increased by 6mph and acceleration was greatly improved. You can see my other episodes to proof that point. The most important thing is finding the correct roller weights (regardless heavier or lighter) at which the engine makes most horsepower (which is torque x rpm), giving you the best acceleration and top speed.
Bro suppose i reduce 6 roller to 3 roller effect will occur my top speed increse
Or suppose total stock roller is 6 six so wht roller would u preferr for top speed
then 7g is too light to overcome the rear variator clutch spring tension. The best one can do is take heavier rollers and try out, if 12 grams end by too low engine rpm, and 10 is too high rpm, just fill up the 10 gram weigths with epoxy resin and drill out the resin to get intermediate weight, start by drilling out 0,5 grams and then try, and do so until you get what you want. With 7 grams you need to adjust clutch spring tension, but you risk to get a clutch the engages at too low rpm.
Also support in yamaha ray z scooter
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Great video
We ALL need more POWER!
Yes!
I just bought a 2019 Zuma 50f with (the grocer's balance says) 5,7g rollers. And that 'infamous' 1 mm washer inside the variator.
I'm NOT a big fan of CVT mods, after all the guys designing these things probably know what good enough is all
about, hey.
But still... I have a set of light 4.1g Polinis here...hmmm....what would happen if I use them (for theoretically better
acceleration) AND remove the 1mm thingie (for theoretical higher top speed) ??? Would that poor 50cc clockmill
just drop dead ?
Takes me about ten minutes to tear it apart, but I'm not going to mod it before I hear from you guys (I've already opened it up just to have a look at the grease amount on the clutch bearings --- have seen some near bone-dry in the past).
Very nice video, my idea of a fast little monster (but I'm gettin' old).
Thanks for the compliments.
The assumption that the designer knows best for cvt tuning holds true to a certain extent. CVT tuning however is user specific and that's where performance can be "found." The designer sets the CVT up for a compromise of the best fuel mileage and longevity at the cost of performance (acceleration and top speed). By moving this spectrum, more performance can be found at the cost of greater fuel consumption and adhering to stricter maintenance intervals.
The answer to 4.1g varies depending on the bike, rider weight, and the amount of power the engine outputs (at the 50cc category, even climate changes or altitude changes could be significant). For that reason, it is best to install a $6 tachometer to monitor engine RPM's and adjust the CVT as necessary by means such as changing the weights.
@@FIFTYmil Thanks for your answer. Think of it now, the hr.counter/tach already fitted to my yam generator I'll just transfer to the little slow poke and see what gives with the
different combinations. I will probably go back to oem settings but hell, this is fun innit !
Again, very well done video of yours. I can't help but love that scoot !
to be honest, i tried screwing around with tighter clutch springs, but that only works if you have a bigger engine. lets say you have a 70cc muonted then you might want a tighter clutch, but the simple 50cc engine doesnt need to be tighter, the normal springs work great, even with a finetuned engine like yours.
That's interesting. I think engine displacement would have been irrelevant (ie.all transmissions would benefit from a tigther clutch spring if performance is all you're after). On my 50cc 4-stroke Ruckus, the tighter clutch springs were a very good upgrade in terms of the bike's response and fun factor. However, it also led to overheating the clutch bell in stop & go traffic. Imagine dumping your clutch at 8000RPM in stop & go traffic on a motorcycle every single time you move an inch forward! For that reason, I didn't end up installing them. However, they do make the bike more fun, more responsive, and gives you a much harder launch from standstill. An absolute-must if you want your scooter to pull wheelies.
but if your clutch spring get TOO TIGHT, the clutch will only scrape the clutch bell for the first 10-15 km/h, giving a higher wear and tear, and less torque (slower starting) at the beginning
yes i have a slightly tighter clutch spring in my scooter, but its only 1 step tighter than original. if you go to malossi clutch spring, you can see white (original strenght, just for replacement) - green (1,2x strenght) - red - yellow - etc....
i was using red, which is i think 1.5x strenght, or 2x strenght and it wasnt really fun to drive, so i got back to the green giving me a 1.2x strenght and its just perfect for an upgraded 50cc, i researched it online, and the tighter clutch springs will be better for 70cc if you also use a heavier weight roller. for example, right now using 4,2gr rollers, and the green clutch spring. if i was going to use a 70cc engine, i would put in heavier rollers, like 5,5-6gr and a tighter clutch spring.
I think those are two seperate concepts and should be tuned seperately. However yes absolutely, with more power (ie. more cc) I would definitely go with heavier roller weights. The exact same setup I have in my 50cc right now would not be suitable for a 70cc because the roller weights would be too light and I am generating less than optimal force to push the drive belt than a heavier weight setup would be able to achieve. With that said however, I think your observation of clutch springs being too tight is inline with the clutch pads being unable to engage - ie. Lots of slipping/overheating and not a lot of accelerating. That is because the OEM clutch is designed to engage at a specified RPM. Moderate increase in clutch spring stiffness may generate slightly better response at the cost of more clutch wear. On the otherhand, extreme increase in clutch spring stiffness will lead to poorer results because simply the stock clutch can't handle it.