Vinyl Records Hit Record High Prices - Investing in Vinyl Records
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2024
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I was sure this video would stir some discussion, and it did, but I needed to clarify a few things. My collection is not about sealed records; I have very few-maybe less than 20. For me, it's about the music and the experience of listening to these records, regardless of their value. 99.9% of records will never skyrocket in price; they may appreciate over time, but they will always be within reach. However, the super rare iconic records, in my view, are undervalued and could see a significant increase in value in the coming years. Part of the point of this video was pointing out that the very rarest and most desirable records sell for 100x times less than there counterparts in other collectible marketplaces and in my opinion that is going to change. Other than some exceptions, I don't see slabbing becoming huge immediately with non-sealed records, but who will open and play a sealed original Dark Side Of The Moon? Dropping the value from $2,000 to $100? That is the perfect candidate for slabbing. Also, the caliber of records I'm talking about seldom come in the shop, so It's not like I'm pushing these records up to line my pockets.
Mike, Record grading is not in it's infancy!! Read my post!
How do you grade a record visually without playing it. I've bought sealed records from the 70's that sound awful because the paper inner has released some sort of chemical that damaged the vinyl over the years. I have records that look visually immaculate but have surface noise. I have records with all kind of light sleeve scuffs that have no noise whatsoever. So slabbing a record might actually ruin the record by sealing it. They need to breathe. And you can't trust a grading unless it was played.
@@murch13 we or others graded records from the 1950's to the 1970's by visual and audio playbality! Simple as that!
That’s exactly the problem. If no one will open the record because it will lose 95% of its value then it’s value as a piece of recorded music is gone and it’s only value lies in investor’s imaginations, thereby only creating one more form of currency for wealth building and tax hide-outs.
That being said… I think I agree with Mike that we will see the value of the ultra-rare vinyl skyrocket, while the value of all my Tone Poets stay fairly flat… or disappear.
Free the music!
That’s the catch-22, can’t properly grade without opening but somehow opening it reduces value. There only needs to be a few seminal albums preserved throughout the world in museums. Not in regular consumers man/woman cave.
So, when certain records go for less than you think they should, we should all feel "slighted" in your words, but when people go crazy in a whatnot auction and pay stupid amounts of money on something they could get for a fraction elsewhere, then we must defer to the free market and not be put off or make any judgement. Got it.
Mike take note on this post. It is one of the best
He is just creating his own narrative to hype up his overpriced whatnot auctions.
This happens all the time, on Whatnot and EBay. There’s several alternatives immediately available but someone opts to pay the exorbitantly priced one. I won’t be surprised if years from now we learn about some shenanigans.
Well said. Sucker born every minute. And I like Mike and agree with him on most things. Definitely not this
Yeah, I caught that. That was a dumb ass statement. Only for people as well of as him.
Grading records in a slab is the most un-cool thing ever lol. Vinyl “jumped the shark”.
I absolutely disagree. I was a comicbook buyer for years. Grading destroyed collecting. It priced most people out of the market. Not to mention I refuse to say I am a collector. I bought comics to read. I buy music to listen to. I have libraries not collections.
For comic books, I understand although not all books should be slabbed. Music, on the other hand, is to be heard, not seen.
Guess what, I began collecting comics in 2003, when I had no idea that slabbing was taboo. The coolest things to have were graded and slabbed OGs while you had reading copies that yon didn’t care if you messed up. Tell me what’s wrong with me? That I not only listen to my music but I collect it as souvenirs of my life’s adventures and discoveries of art. You know you don’t have to tell people that you only listen to your records, you can just listen to them. It’s ridiculous to me that anyone should need to put a needle on a turquoise zep in order to not feel like a poser. It’s called treasure.
@@anthonysmith4449 and money is suppose to be spent cars are suppose to be driven food is for eating etc, see how logical I am? Do you think anyone would have a slabbed record that they don’t already own several other copies of, let alone a record they’ve never heard. “Records are for listening” is such basic logic. Beds are for sleeping, clothes are for wearing. Damned be the footballer with a framed jersey though. To hell with a sentimental framed dollar bill. Right?
@@arzabael I think I disagree. A model-T or other old vehicle has utility but is also simultaneously the embodiment of a particular new idea. They’re inseparable. The new engineering is what makes it - itself. That’s not true for music. The value of the art is in no way correlated to the vinyl LP. Vinyl is just the vessel, but nothing in itself is special. Arguably, vinyl (particularly old LPs) detract from the art. There are better vessels now, remasters, some digital sources, even tape copies that are far superior to reproducing the actual music. It’s the music that matters.
But like you mention with comics, if someone enjoys having the original release product, that is a personal preference. Some cool factor exists. It’s certainly not a more accurate reproduction of the music though.
@@mr.bigsquid8422 yes the music is what matters, the vinyl is just the vessel, it doesn’t matter if you slab it.
Also didn't the collectors in the 90s have this mindset with Elvis, Buddy Holly etc and the prices have nose dived?
Exactly. Music is transient and generational. As each generation declines, so does the music that meant the world to it - with notable exceptions that are of course museum pieces because of their significance. There are probably less than 150 such individual releases/pressings that belong to that category, all of which are unattainable for non-multi-millionaires.
On this topic I have always found it weird that people have such an issue with vinyl having a "collectable side" to it. I mean some people buy a baseball bat to play baseball and then some buy a baseball bat because Babe Ruth hit a home run with it and we don't say they are crazy for putting it in a case on the wall or selling it 10 years later for 50% profit. We never scream "Baseball bats are meant to play baseball with". Why is it so easy to understand a stamp collector who invest in rare stamps, rare coins, sports stuff, etc....but for some reason with records people can't see that CAN be part of it for some people. After all anything else on the planet that deal in "old" and "rare' naturally has a collectable side.
For investment, stick to index funds, but these are awesome collectibles
Land. Land is the best investment you can make. Especially if it still has its water rights intact.
A valuable record that cannot be played is worth nothing.
No it’s not, it’s like a bottle of whsky that you don’t drink.
Without a plan to someday drink it, I'd say that would also be worthless. @@Boatzerama
Thats the funniest comment I ever read. As a vintage toy collector as well, your theory and mentality is why you are not a true collector. Rare is rare, finding a Mint copy of a OG copy is like going back in time and picking one up. Opening it or not, its more of the person who owns it, not the actual records true value. People like you can't understand the difference.
Lol not the 'records are meant to be played' guy
@@OwlsRNotWhatTheySeemwhat are you supposed to do with them?
Man with a bajillion records suggests a healthy record economy requires extreme pricing 😊
and a store
The best of the best, the 0.01%, should have pricing in line with other collectibles. Although I have a store, those high-caliber LPs almost never show up. I'm not calling for everyday records to be high-priced.
@TheInGroove I think it will be some time before we see vinyl prices for rare records matching let's say rare sports cards, reason being vinyl is still a relatively small niche although growing by leaps and bounds still small compared to the card market. Card market has alot bigger age range when it comes to buying/collecting
Exactly
Loved every second of this video, Mike. Extremely engaging content. 10/10 will watch again.
Well. If no one hears the best versions of Dark Side because they are all on shelves as investments, that is a tragedy. Especially since a 22-ish year old can hear it better than anyone older.
Exactly.
I got into vinyl because of my parents. My love for vinyl exists because of my parents . I own quite a lot of reissues but only because the stuff I like isn't out there in any huge amount. African records. Things like that. And a lot of times the OG pressings sound like crap. 90s albums a lot of them on vinyl don't sound great because we were well into cds by that time.
Youth never outweighs knowledge. Just because u maybe younger with presumably better hearing does not mean u know what to listen for or have any previous experiences of what does sound better and what doesn’t. My kids (22 & 20) can taste very expensive wine yet they still tell me there’s no difference from one bottle to another. They also hear only little differences in my audiophile expensive system than they do on their basic setup. I can instantly hear the sound difference between a great pressing and one that’s sub par , they can’t. So it’s never a case of young ears knowing better.
You don’t honestly believe that there’s a looming threat that the highest quality of dark side of the moon audio will be relegated to being sealed behind plastic. Talk about being an extremist for the convenience of argument sake.
Lol, you don’t need to hear the “best” version to enjoy it. Here is a life lesson, you will rarely be in a position to enjoy “the best” of anything in life. The secret to happiness is knowing that is not necessary. You can enjoy it just as much by streaming it, or listening to a “regular” vinyl version. Case in point, some of my most memorable music listening experiences have been listening to music on the radio while driving.
@@vinylwoodI’m 37 mate with rather complex taste in wine, and the reality is experience means nothing when high frequency hearing drops with each passing decade.
I am kinda conflicted about it. I don’t own any records I can’t listen to, so I don’t keep sealed ones. For me, I have to be able to enjoy the record, or it’s worthless to me. I do see it from the investment standpoint, but it does rub me the wrong way. Even tho, I do own a shop and do collect rare records. I think the slabbed records is what bothers me, because if we don’t listen to them, it feels disingenuous and wrong. But, to each their own. If it means I can sell records my whole life, and the hobby stays prosperous, I’m all for it. Just for me as a collector, I won’t be slabbing any of mine. Great video and topic! Congrats on your purchase 🤣
Completely agree!
Other than some exceptions, I don't see slabbing becoming huge immediately with non-sealed records. If you have a sealed DSOTM, who's going to open it up and play it? That is the perfect candidate for slabbing.
@@TheInGrooveyeah I get that for sure
One major problem with the belief of rising value of vinyl. These records are from the childhood of older people. Younger generations may not care at all.
Correct
You could say that about comic books too though.
But comics, now there is something printed for old people.
I agree. I think many pop and rock records from the 60's are going down. And that goes for late 60's early 70's psyche as well. On the other hand 80's albums are up. The young people seems to like the 1980's music and fashion.
Very true, but I don't think he is saying THSI IS WHY you should be vinyl and it be your focus. I mean all the rare toys that go for TONS of money like star war stuff....that was just left over crap from our childhood as well. I'm not sure I understand your comment in full. What is the connection you're making with values rising and it being old stuff from our childhood?
I'm buying up before you guys ruin record prices
“My $10,000 copy of nirvana’s fist single is worth “too little”
…Mike, the inGroove
Great perspective & totally agree with your ideas
I completely agree with this. Records are a piece of American and world culture. Just like art, comic books, and coins it’s a part of history. The high quality and rare stuff will continue to rise just like with any commodity. As both a dealer and collector, thanks for viewing this a positive outlook in our hobby.
I like your example of the Led Zeppelin turquoise. I’ve always thought that was undervalued. It will be selling for $10,000+ in a short amount of time.
Sealed records are about to absolutely explode. With the grading and companies like Heritage starting to feature them in premire auctions, it’s on the brink of being huge.
-Chad
You can't grade a sealed record though . The whole point is you need to listen to it. Exact same sealed pressings can sound totally different. It might have been first in the run, it might have been the thousandth 😂 you can't grade a record by looking at it amd simply knowing it's sealed
You _can_ grade a sealed record (and many do), just visually.. 🤷🏻
@@R3TR0R4V3 that makes no sense. I've opened so many sealed records and they play awful or even have a little bit of warp. The cover I'm really not fussed about so long as it isn't falling apart. It's there to protect the record . I've seen some crazy beat up originals at mad prices. I'd much rather have a decent sounding pressing that I love to play than a holy grail original I'm scared to touch. I do reckon prices for these originals will keep increasing, but it's people that treat them like art rather than music
@@njwtube They're being graded on what can be seen as a sealed record. You can't grade a sealed record (the vinyl), but that's not what they're doing The fact that it is sealed makes it collectible. They're not trying to grade the vinyl. If you want it to listen to, then you wouldn't buy it graded or submit one to be graded. If you want the grade on the vinyl, then buy an open copy.
The Led Zeppelin turquoise sleeve is very desirable and sought after as well as undoubtedly rare, but it's not all that rare in the UK. I've seen plenty of them around, and two of my friends have it. I was also at a record fair about ten years ago, and there were six of them in the same building! This wouldn't happen with a major rarity. Of course, the condition is everything.
Given people’s perceived values on even VG condition records; crate digging (buying used) records has become much less fun imo.
For us everyday record collector (listener types not “investors”) the only real avenues left to fill out collections is “shear luck and happenstance,” eBay gambles etc.
Exactly. I used to fill holes in my collection with taking chances on rare stuff with low priced VGs and sometimes they played much better than they looked and it was a score. Now every single dealer prices everything to the highest extremes-even low grades like G+ and VG- go for an arm and a leg. It sucks. Over commodification of vinyl is ruining the hobby. Slabbing is for morons. Collect covers, not LPs if you’re not gonna play the music.
Great clip. Nicely done.
Love these videos, great stuff, I could listen to Mike for hours!
Punk records being so highly valued these days is the least punk thing ever. But if I had the money I’d own them all.
The difference between collectors and listeners.
You honestly don't see a way to do both? If you have 10,000 records and 300 of them are rare collectables and other 9,701 you play...which are you? (I added the 1 because in the time it took to type that sentence I bought another record LOL!!!! )
I have 5,000 vintage rock albums which I've had recorded in Discogs for a few years. What I've observed is that the median value barely changes, while the high value goes up about 7% a year and the low value goes down about 7%. So condition has always been a factor, but is becoming more important over time. Grading and investment are the inevitable outcome of this progression.
You are totally right!! The other things that has really effected the pricing is that since we kind of now have Discogs as the "primary accepted source" with a lot of pricing (as so many individuals and independent stores use it as their guide"....it now only take a purchase by 8-10 people throughout the ENTIRE WORLD to cause 20,000 other people who own an album to declare a significant change in the value of that record. That seems just a tad bit to sensitive to me, but it's where we are.
Great listening to ya again Mike. I really like the point and angle you made about how vinyl should be equal to the attention that other collectables have garnered. I understand this opinion and its manifestation will only cost me more $$$ but it also increases my collection value. I will say that as someone in my mid 60’s I will soon be leaving all this to my kids. Thus it is up to them to decide if money 💰 is worth more than these shelves full of Art, Knowledge, Culture, History and Pure Musical Enjoyment. I do advise them to remember that money comes and goes but many of these albums will never come around again. I know the value of my records in most cases has increased but it doesn’t mean anything to me as a collector. 😊
Rare and hard to find records will always be worth a lot of money and prices are always going to go up, another great video Mike keep them coming 🙂👍 greetings from Australia
Hey brother, I'm trying to make my way over to your store one of these days. I'm in Chandler, so I was pretty stoked to learn you guys are in Phoenix. Hopefully I get a day off here pretty soon lol
I actually like the idea that my collection goes up in value and that I own some collectible stuff. If you really want something, go out and buy it when it’s available and for retail price. If you don’t care about this kind of thing, you don’t have to…just carry on collecting and listening to what you want.
Good point that people collect for different reasons. Some collect for investment purposes and others just to listen to your favorite music. Personally, I'm a listener and try to find the best sounding pressings of various albums.
Whoa whoa once a record is graded, how do you play it? Do you have to grade it each time it is sold because of course people are going to want to play them
At a certain level of value (like that Coltrane record) it would seem crazy to actually play it. I bet that Coltrane is going to just sit in storage or some kind of display, except for the occasional time to impress someone’s rich friends. I find that part a bit sad, but to each his own.
Thanks for the content Mike. As always great insight and brilliantly delivered. Have to admit I’m not a jazz fan at all, it’s just a random set of noises for me , but hey, each to their own right ? I can appreciate the investor in me wanting to pick up a rare John Coltrane and hold on to it.
It comes down to this:
If you want to buy a 1st press Coltrane Blue Train…12K is ludicrous
If you *have* a 1st press Coltrane Blue Train…12K is reasonable
facts
"Giant Tool" is a giant understatement.
Why? What's the deal with the guy?
I've heard similar stories.
We need you to make the video 😂 spill the tea
@noblerecords Not much to say bud he hoards all the good stuff for their Ebay listings. He's also known to be quite arrogant but man you could throw a stone and hit 20 just like him.
great video, Mike. For what it's worth, I completely agree with your observations.
“Punk records were repressed until the punks became Wall Street investors”
..Mike, the inGroove
(This is a fantastically depressing video to watch)
I'm excited to see what my collection is worth in 10 years :) Good video
The prices will reflect their desirability. If records are worth $50k then people will be paying that.
Whether it's comic books, baseball cards, whiskey, or records, I've always subscribed to the Rising Tides Raise All Ships approach. Collectors/Investors help get the things I want made.
This theory is particularly peculiar when it comes to the collectibles market because they certainly aren’t making any more originals? If anything rises it’s just the price all of us will pay for any OG whether it’s a “Blue Train” or an OG press of “Rumours”… it trickles down where everything goes up-unfortunately …
thanks for the investment advice....
I remember being at a record show in the early 90s where Neal Umphred of Goldmine was there selling the price guides, and a man approached him complaining about how the prices in the guide were "pricing the average collector out of the hobby!"
Neal told him, "Well, if you had that particular record, would you let it go for less?"
"Well, I...I don't...maybe.."
"Then don't question my info"
See to me that's a very snobby attitude. Price guides have also ruined the hobby because every little old lady thinks their beat up copy of Abbey Road is work a grand because of those guides.
People say this all the time, but it’s a bad mindset. Also, it’s not true, many folks give deals. The people that say it are largely rationalizing their behavior.
Yep I agree, I think for top tier albums in rock and jazz especially. NM VU and Nico etc have always been high but I think we will get into 5 figures in the next 10 yrs. If one pays attention to places like Discogs the number of NM compared to VG-VG+ is shrinking. And as time goes by there will be even less. And up go prices on truly NM lps. Sounds like crazy talk that $12,600.00 is a reality for Blue Train, but go back to the 90’s when many of those most desirable Blue Notes were $300-$500 that are now 4 times the price. Desirability, rarity, popularity, demand and condition.
As far as why people get pissy in the comments…
I think opinions on this is a matter of perspective. The big elephants in the room:
You got wads of cash to spend or unlimited income?
Probably are not going to not think much of rising prices of rarer/original records.
You have a huge collection that includes rarities?
It only makes sense that that person would be more than happy for his or her collection to skyrocket.
You run a business that buys huge collections?
Well, of course, you would be more apt to want prices to go up on the cherries of that collection you bought.
Nothing inherently wrong with any of those responses. Nor should the rich person or businessman that invests time, effort and money in large collections be chastised for any of the above.
On the other hand..
You are just getting into or are in the middle of the hobby and prices are going up up up even for common items like Rumors?
Well, that sucks for that person and they are going to be more prone to be against your enthusiasm for this hobby to basically become more elete.
So, I dont think it is a mystery why folks in the hobby are at odds with opinions on this.
The collector that has the cash will keep on collecting originals and the hobbyist that is getting started or is on a more limited income will simply have to be satisfied with reissues. As you say though just dont think your reissues are going to double in price. In fact, you will probably lose money on resale.
The further the prices go up the fewer investors in the hobby that can purchase an album for 5K. Again perspective. A purchaser with millions at his desposile doesnt blink so much at 5K. A guy that makes 50K or even 100K a year? Yeah, not happening.
My only rub with this is this defense your bringing on the video is a bit of a slap in the face to the later, which are pretty much your customers. I mean it isn’t exactly fun to look at someone saying “It is good thar prices are going up. Look what I have that not many of you can afford”
Lol, it just comes off as a bit insulting to folks I think.
Mind you, it doesnt offend me and I get the message. Ive known the message for years. It is a bit of a forwarning for the future if this is something that transpires. It is happening. But also maybe understand why it comes as you way up there looking down at the peasant vinyl collectors.
My opinion on this is:
Never make records an investment. Buy what you like and will listen to in the best sound you can afford. If you get lucky and find out you have something that ends up valuable, then cool.
Good video Mike, have no issue personally with the philosophy or the idea that records may be turning the corner and going into the more elete collecting area. It is what it is. Get a second job if it bugs someone so much, right? ;)
Well said.
Excellent post. Well written and substantiated.
Record store owner who auctions off rare used records suggesting you invest in records. There have always been rare records and collectables. Nothing new. But, the VC and the vinyl revival (IMO) have done more damage than good for the average record buyer.
Exactly. It’s inflated the value of even common originals. Anyone who’s been collecting for over 20 years can see the negative impact.
When grading companies get involved the only one making money is the grading companies . They screwed card collectors.Soon vinyl pressings will be one of one and all the old albums you’ve been lugging around for 50 years won’t be worth crap . Did anyone rip the Connor Bedard one of one Hockey card with a million dollar bounty on it ? To open a box would cost at least 300.00 while my early 60’s Mantles aren’t close to that number . That’s what comes with grading , you can have a one of one and it be rated an 8 or 9 that sounds crazy . Whatever happened to kids being able to buy affordable cards ,vinyl etc . Seems like that doesn’t happen anymore because we have all grown up and push the ones that should be collecting out of the market . Oh and have you tried to buy tickets to a concert ? Good luck with that . Maybe you’re a Dutch Bros coffee drinker yes those stickers are up for grabs on your favorite social media platforms. Go buy a house or two if you want to get in a money game invest in big people games and let the children collect there soon to be memories that they’ll share with their kids and grandkids . Rant over
What makes that Taylor Swift RSD variant so desirable and worth $2,000+ is two main reasons - the first is that Swifties are simply insane for her merchandise in any form.
But the second and most important is the fact that, perhaps shockingly considering that it’s Taylor Swift and she always releases 87 variants of her albums, it’s the *only* variant that isn’t a picture disc. For the Reputation album, for some odd reason, the main wide release is a 2-LP picture disc. The only time it was pressed on “normal” vinyl is that RSD orange release.
Nothing like stoking some FOMO fear. It’s the music stupid. I actually think it would be a travesty to have “grading”. It just creates another way to commercialize this….which is the bias here. I have a ton of first pressing. I am not running out to have em graded. Angel is probably pissed you put your retirement in a bunch of lumps of oil and cardboard. 😮
I think there's room for all. Speculators, casual collectors and folks that just want to hear the music. In fact, I think big money entering the market helps those of us who want modern AAA,represses of hard to find records we'd NEVER pay even $200 for the original versions.
Not everyone is speed running capitalism in every aspect of their lifes 🤷
No harm is collectors chasing first pressings with big bucks, but as with other collecting/investment bubbles, it ruins things when people go crazy buying new stuff speculating that it will go up, and produces respond making garbage designed to attract them. Happend with the Magic the gathering trading card game most recently.
Scarcity = an investment. It is as simple as that...completely agree with Mike. Curious to see what used vinyl grading conventions investors coalesce around?
One problem with record grading is that it captures the state of the record at the time it was graded. If it’s then handled & played, that grade is no longer current. So do you then seal it in plastic and put it in the closet for a couple decades, hoping the price increases?
If investing is your goal, you’re better off putting it in a total market fund. Hanging onto expensive records for the sole reason if it being for your retirement is likely not the best way to invest.
Buy records as a collector and lover of music with money you can afford to not see again, not as an investment. There will be incredibly few records that will out pace the market.
It’s pretty simple. If you have a problem with people paying what you consider too much for records or anything else, it’s worth what someone is willing to pay for it. That’s it. That particular record is worth 12k because someone was willing to pay that much for it. You can think that a record you have is worth a $1000 but if literally no one is willing to pay that amount then it’s not worth it. On the other hand if you think a record is worth $1000 and someone else is willing to pay $1500 for it, then it’s worth that much.
True, but if you own a record store, maybe posting this video helps his customers justify the cost of a $50 record and an $8 ultrasonic cleaning? No one cares what I think, but I don’t sell records. Mike’s got the price sticker gun and a vested interest in those prices going higher.
@@spindly79 Again, if someone is willing to pay $50 for a record, then it’s worth that much. If collectible records go up in price, then he’s going to have to pay more for them himself. Otherwise, people will sell them to someone else. He will have to adjust accordingly. The market for records has changed tremendously in the last decade price wise. I don’t know if things will get to where he’s predicting but his reasoning why it could is valid. People are already paying a lot for certain records. The Rolling Stones Street Fighting Man picture sleeve 45 has sold for over $20,000.
And here I am patiently waiting for the 45RPM version I ordered on Friday to ship and arrive at my door. I bet it sounds incredible!
I agree with you about the Warhol covers even including the zipper Sticky Fingers to a lesser extent. He was all about mass production and these are in all intents and purposes Warhol originals. They belong in a museum!
Mike, you actually got me thinking. People value and respect comic book and coin collections. So, with that in mind, I can better appreciate vinyl record collectors and collections. I mean if a collector has $12,000 or whatever dollar amount to invest, well more power to her/him. Good point, cool video!
One tool calling another tool a tool that’s what I’m here for
Man I suddenly want to play some Tool! 😆
Look, I have a nice collection myself, UK Mono White Albums etc, but I vehemently and emphatically disagree with the notion that anything (for that matter) should be more expensive. Unless it’s just unfathomably rare, price it on its condition, plain & simple. Something like 70% of Americans are paycheck to paycheck, so let’s not try to rob people who are already hurting.
Yes, he is not speaking to me, that's for sure.
Great Vid Mike and agree 90% . The 10% goes to Slabbing records . If the Vinyl can't be seen or heard it will never fly with the Establishment. See you in Austin .
Hi MIke, I have a Blue Train stereo with 63rd street on both sides. For some strange reason I took the gold STEREO sticker off the laminated front. At least EX condition. I also have a mono EX copy of Ornette's The Shape Of Jazz to Come that sounds great, I know what you mean about Atlantic's old vinyl, I just saw a mono copy for $200 at a show. I have just about every Roland Kirk album except for that one on King. I still think The Inflated Tear is Kirk's best work. Greetings from Michigan, nice video.
If you look at auction results on Popsike prices for blue train, actually been going down
I agree that some records will fall into the “investment” categories. I have purchased a few with that in mind. I doubt that I will ever have one of those records slabbed (graded) with the current companies available as I don’t think there is a standard protocol for grading amongst all. Regardless I doubt if I will reap the benefit as this will all go to my heirs and, yes, I have taught them how to check matrixes and such.
Absolutely, I agree. I have some sealed test pressings. I can't even find any info.....LPZ- 2052 DCC Deep Purple , sealed 2 lp test pressing. Sorry if asked before. I listen and collect . UHQRS & ONE-STEPS are amazing....
I don't like what you're saying about records as an investment, but I *get* what you're saying. There's a lot of originals of desirable records outside the jazz realm where clean versions - where both the media and the sleeve are NM - are just drying up, at least online. I'm not a fan of what's happening, but it is what it is. You're speaking truth, Mike.
If someone is starting a record collection today, I think unless money is no object, a new collector is not going to be able to focus on OGs (of older records).
Cheers, Tom
It’s sad to hear this To me it’s sad to see people buying records for the value rather then the love of the music on the album I see VC channels already where all most of the content is about the value of the records they have I grew up in the 60s where nobody cared who pressed the song!!!
There’s a difference between collectors with money and listeners on a budget. It’s apples and oranges. Both are great for the hobby.
Not if you are that beginner who has a reissue but loves the album so much they want an og.
@@asupremelove5149 if you love the music, why do you care about an OG?
These YT comments are hilarious. Look, I like Mike, I buy records (not collectibles and not used) from Mike. I do not take Mike's advice however when it comes to collecting vinyl records as a financial investment. Anyone that uses vinyl records as an investment tool will sooner or later end up poorer for it and sadly disappointed when the meager returns are realized. These collectors are not purchasing the catalog rights to publishing or pressing facilities that have an exclusivity on access to Blue Train the music. As a consumer, right now, you can purchase what is most likely a better sounding Blue Note Tone Poet of Blue Train for < $40 recent pressing that I'm sure sonically is superior to this 12K+ guesstimated OG copy. You can buy a CD, you can stream Blue Train for pennies. I'm not going to get emotionally worked up over stupid people spending stupid amounts of money on objects of perceived value. I don't see how slabbing or collecting is going to hurt anyone's access or enjoyment of the music.
You think records are crazy..I am a photogrher--lenses with serial numbers---crazy!--I personally buuy records for the music, but having a valueable record is kinda cool. Most say we shouldhave bought more copys of THIS RECORD etc, but who knows... I hope that other dont put down collesctors looking for an investment... I bet almost everyone collects somehing. Check ou the book folks, baseball cards etc....
Mike you hit it out of the box again. Enjoy the music folks and enjoy the value...... maybe safer than the stock market!--JG
“Big prices mean more credibility for this hobby”
And here I was enjoying listening to my $5.99 copy of Sinatra / Jobim… I obviously have no credibility when it comes to record “collecting”
Mike you say around minte 7:30 , "That we are in the infancy of grading records?" What? Record grading I've known in record collecting since the late 70's!! In 1980 we found out of "Record Collector" magazine sold at Tower Records and the Warehouse. A guide on record grading.That's how I built my collection and sold them all! The magazine. Plus there was another magazine that was American. Printed i believe here in Southern California. Sold at Tower Records, that I can't remember off hand, It was so good as a grading guide! We the record collectors at least in California and nationwide 40+ years ago bough as our guide to grading and the value of old records!
Who would have ever thought this would even be a thing 20 years ago? Good to see vinyl still being relevant in 2024. I stopped buying vinyl way back in the 90's but started back again now that I am old and have some free time and disposable income. I just buy the cheaper stuff though and happily never sold any of my original 500 or so albums.
It’s the hobby of middle-aged professional men (lawyers & doctors). Some regular folks that are still in, but I’m not seeing the same folks at stores or fairs/shows. Vinyl is moving to classic car, Gibson guitar territory.
Too many ads!!!
I cannot help but totally agree with what this dude is saying. Why should artwork of an audio nature be any less valuable than a visual artwork?
People here are disagreeing saying comic books are for reading and not for grading. Of course they are for reading....and enjoying, the same way that a Picasso painting is for enjoyment whilst looking at. Is a Picasso worth less because people look at it? No of course not, if anything it's worth more. It is that when you read your expensive comic book now though just be more aware of its value, the same way museums are with their Picassos.
Ok, should a valuable record be worth less because there are numerous copies? Yes. However, let's say there are only 1000 copies of this rare record as opposed to only one of the visual kind, the Picasso. So if the Picasso is selling for hundreds of millions and there's only one, it stands to reason that the record with only a 1000 or so ORIGINAL copies should sell for hundreds of thousands, if not early millions.
What is suggested by society is that gallery art - meaning the visual arts, is somehow worth more than something we can hear.
Perhaps rare records, if their perceived value is to rise in line with the visual arts in the future, should be sold by white walled galleries in expensive addresses, fronted by heavy looking doormen whilst inside young expensive looking staff with modern art Uni degrees try to sell you a bit of 'trane. Something to ponder.................
this generation ain't gonna reach any significant earning potential whatsoever until they'll be in their mid '60s when they inherit the Gen X treasure chest. and in your mid-'60s you don't care about records anymore, your hearing is fucked and you can't tolerate any clutter in your house
I’d have to agree with you here Mike. Most OG pressings of classic jazz albums (blue note, Impulse, Verve, etc) in good shape are becoming more hard to find as time goes on. In terms of rock I have an original Hazel Yarwood pressing of Rubber Soul in NM/NM condition which is considered by audiophiles as the best version, and I strongly believe it’ll appreciate in the next 10-20 years. The scarcity of some of these specific analogue records will impact the cost for sure (supply and demand). I don’t think it’ll make all original pressings rise to unobtainable value but it will definitely impact the popular and rare titles.
Gotta be crazy to pay stupid prices for a record but to each its own
Well, I bought a RSD record about five years ago for about $40, and recently sold it for $895. But I guess you know better than we do. 😅
Excellent video. Couldn't agree more. The naysayers in the comments appear to be missing the point. Especially the ones suggesting that this is just a strategy to line your pockets. If that were the case, you would have harped on the potential for currently available reissues that you sell to become valuable (which some will, by the way). In fact, you explicitly made the point that you were not making such claims. Your point was about the .01% of records that anyone watching this video will never own. You really nailed your point when you stated that, even if the ultra rare records were not expensive, they would not be found at every local Goodwill. There are not endless amounts of NM first pressings of DSOTM in dozens of people's homes in every town. They are valuable because they are rare. Disagreeing with that is like saying, "I strongly disagree with people who think the sky is blue. If people didn't make a fuss about the sky being blue, then i could have blue sky to myself." It just doesn't make sense. In fact, verbalizing one's resentment about the value just emphasizes the point that the records are desirable.
I'm alright, Jack, keep your hands off of my stack.
Supply and demand, plain and simple. If you want to spend $12,600 for an album, have at it. I buy albums for musical enjoyment not for my retirement. That’s a pretty big gamble if that’s what people are investing in.
Part of the reason they hit these prices is in the 90s the Japanese came over with arms full of cash and bought OG jazz, rock, funk, soul etc for cheap. Now there's a shortage in the US because it's all overseas. 90s hip hop. You can't find it here. It's all overseas. So it's supply and demand but there's a big reason supply is what it is.
Leave it to KISS to knock it out of the park price wise with their cool new Creatures glowing vinyl box.. 9 LP's and a bunch of paper goods, $965.theres a $350 dollar premium for the glowing wax vs the standard black
Do you think early, long out of print CD's will ever be valuable ?
This video just reinforced the idea in my mind that my vinyl collecting career is over for the most part. The feeling “slighted” if a popular album sells lower than market value is just asinine. There are ebbs and flows in every single market. Everyone’s property value went up during covid but now no one can afford a house.
How is this good for the hobby? Its going to bar so many people from the hobby. Its going to become a hobby for snobby rich people, or music “enthusiasts” that shit on other peoples music tastes. I’m switching to CDs. Its a physical album, no surface noise, and CAN be mastered well. On top of that, you can rip it to your phone. We’re right around the corner to digital mastering not being brick walled and sounding much better more consistently, not to mention the emergence of Dolby Atmos and DSD formats.
If you want your pristine “original pressing Jazz Album name X” to be graded and never played again, so be it. But its going to fuck up the rest of the market for the casual buyer.
Records and record prices are gonna hit a bubble like anything else. Prices are soaring super high getting crazy expensive used and new titles. People especially younger folks will eventually stop buying
I don’t see any younger folks at all. Very seldom and they’re almost exclusively buying reissues. I was stunned when my friend and I looked around and saw a store of 40-50 something dads.
not sure that bubble applies here, though prices will zig-zag, or lower due to a sudden job. it’s worth $12K to someone, but it may be a while before it’s the norm. that’s not a bubble, as rarely there’s recovery from a bubble.
music will always have buyers and inflation works to supply money. it may be that it will not keep up with other forms of investment. I hear people also go bankrupt with Casinos, so anything is possible.
And you base this on…? Oh, that’s right, nothing.
I know a guy who bought an original "Quiet Kenny" by Kenny Dorham on the purple New Jazz label at a Goodwill store a few years ago. It's in beautiful condition and similar copies have sold for over $5,000. He had it with him at the indoor flea market he sells out of. I checked out the record and tried not to damage it in any way by just holding it or breathing on it. The album was in a new outer poly sleeve and the record was tucked inside behind the jacket in its original "wax paper" sleeve... A few minutes later I hear some seriously beautiful jazz. He put the record on his old crappy turntable! My eyes just about popped out of my head. He knew it was big money but thought he'd put it on. I don't know what he's going to do with the thing. He may never sell it or he might try eBay or something, I don't know. I actually told him to contact you "Mike at in 'In' Groove" but I'm 99.999% certain he didn't listen to me - even though I told him to write it down. That album deserves to be played on a system that costs much more than the LP goes for and, yes, it deserves that price or much higher. The album is a work of art, a playable work of art.
Slabs and frames aren't a bad thing (I have an original Black Sabbath Vertigo framed because the cover is NM but the vinyl is extremely scratched up) but playable records shouldn't be unplayable just because they're rare.
It deserves to be played by someone who truly loves Kenny Dorham, not just by someone who could afford a nice system. It’s actually reassuring to hear this story to know that us regular working folks can still accidentally stumble upon some grails before all those stuffy, money grabbing types slab em all up.
I'm sorry Mike you're killing me you were just ruining the hobby for us real music lovers. And I don't agree with your advice 👎
Nobody is running anything. Many outstanding records are being released daily, and 99.9% of all the records ever made will always be affordable. It's just a tiny percentage that will go for the crazy money.
@@TheInGroove maybe, but the record prices that you have to me are too high. Thank God there are other record stores that are fair to music lovers and don't charge as much and those auctions that you have I have many of those records and I couldn't sleep if I sold them for that much.
I don't "charge" anything for an auction. The buyers determine the prices.
Fun and interesting. Future casting is a bit insane.
You are an old school collector. Comics ect.. That's where you come from.
For me, buy what ya like. Rock onnnn
So it is good for me as a twenty-two year old collector if a copy of Nevermind, which is already $1,000, were to become $10,000 because it is "good for the hobby?" As far as I see it it is not good for me, because one of the most iconic albums of all time which thousands of people already have in their Discogs collections would go from an totally unreachable price to a fairy-tale price, meaning that any chance to get my hands on one is impossible. The thing is I don't care about reissues in the slightest, as you said they are not collectible, and I buy to listen. Sounds a lot like a case of "for me but not for thee." The feeling of owning an original copy of an album like Dark Side of the Moon is magical, and if even only the solid-blue triangle were to rocket in price lesser copies would also see a rise. This may be true for my perspective as well, but Mike, back when you were twenty-two years old presumably getting started, would you buy what you are saying? Especially if its from a record store owner with a library of vinyl 80% of which he listens to at most once a year because he is busy amassing more? Sounds a lot like a case of "for me but not for thee."
The concept of records as collectibles has been around for decades. People were paying stupid money for Beatles Butcher Covers 30 years ago. So people saying that is "ruining records" can only be newcomers that haven't really been paying attention to the history of vinyl market. But as an actual legitimate investment vehicle, yeah that's a newer thing and I am with you, I think it will only grow over time. And I think some modern records will become investment grade in the future too. Maybe I won't be around long enough to see Tone Poets and VMP titles fetching truly crazy prices, but my kids might be.
Given the hit and miss quality of modern day pressings i believe the vinyl bubble will burst again the same as it did in the late 80's and 90's, buying vinyl and CD for investment is a fool's errand. Speaking as a record, sorry music, collector for 55 years i have seen them all come and go, who still wants 78's ? The current vinyl mania gold rush will not last, all those valuable collectors items will end up in the charity shop bins when new unforseen music formats emerge in the future, though they will still be listening to Beethoven, the Beatles, Coltrane and Dark Side!
I’m hugely into dance music, as well as classic rock and a lot of other genres. But prices are still really reasonable on some 90s records. The original 3disc Leftism for instance is a PORKY cut, PORKY did a number of 90s dance records. And again, I think in 20/30 years, the prices on those will skyrocket. I’m not collecting them as an investment , just for my collection. I have absolutely no problem with records as investment, it retains works of art preserved for the future. I only have a problem with flippers who buy and then immediately resell and 10 times the value.
I witnessed a 45 rpm single go for $1275 at auction.
(The multiple purposes at 23:33 answered some questions I had.)
Slabbing has always been ridiculous to me, having collected MtG as well.
Agree with everything here
The complaints in here sound like “I want people to be different than they are, I want everyone to think like me and I don’t understand why they don’t”. Relax already, everything about collectables is subjective to the collectors and you get to choose whether or not you are a collector. No one is forcing you into the collector market.
“My $5000 copy of LZs first album deserves more respect”
….Mike , the inGroove
Really interesting and important video. It really comes down to a matter of taste. If we are talking about John Coltrane's catalogue, 'Blue Train' is a good album musically but not necessarily a great one. I was listening to Coltrane's 1966 album 'Meditations' earlier today, which is at the free end of the catalogue and involving considerable input from Pharoah Sanders. Musically, this is a far more interesting listen than 'Blue Train'. But that is of course my personal opinion!
Good luck with that. I'm sticking with cds.
Ive been collecting for 218 years! Whatever I say is the pinnacle of all opinion and no one else is right!
It makes me laugh when I hear the words "vinyl revival", or the best one when you tell someone you collect "ooo they are making a comeback you know!". Yeah right, they been making a come back every year since 96, I've had someone say that to me every f**king year since 1996.
I vehemently disagree with you. We should be encouraging younger people to get into the hobby. Very difficult for them with you suggesting prices should be increasing all the time. I have no idea why you need a dozen copies of Blue Train. I collect vinyl to listen to it, not as an investment. I thought you are a music lover not collecting for your investment portfolio. Very disappointing.
If spectacular reissues weren't easily available and the only way to hear these classic LPs was to stumble upon one in the wild, I could understand the complaining. But that's not the case, so why people are against these kinds of collections.
Yeah, there are reissues of everything these days. Imagine telling someone 20 years ago that basically every popular album (and most obscure collectible ones) would one day be in print on vinyl?
These shows are so ridiculously entertaining😅
I remember when Mike used to make videos about how great the music and the art is…
How great they sound, the craftsmanship that went into them….
I wonder how much those videos are worth in dollars now.
well said