Max thanx for your attention to detail on this life saving matter, and I would not think twice about installing your remedy to this incredible oversigh on Honda's part.
I'm a new subscriber. Thank you for the heads-up Max. So far your vlogs are serious and educational and I look forward to catching up to as many as possible in between rides. Cheers!
Max I sent your other video on the steering head failure just recently to a friend of mine with a 2018 Goldwing. He replied that he's been aware of this issue for sometime. When he was in Wisconsin visiting, his brother-in-law, who is a machinist at Boeing, duplicated the part for him out of titanium, without the hole thru the middle. Besides being much stronger, it is considerably lighter. The downside is that he paid over $900 for the titanium billet. Interesting that he knew about it and tried to fix it too. You're on the right track, question is why isn't Honda?
Max, thank you for the in-depth explanation of the issue and the solutions that you have engineered. I received the spindle center pin from you. I will definitely be ordering your stainless steel replacement spindle and castle nut, as soon as you have the stainless steel replacement spindle available on your website.
Watch for videos this week on this topic. I will have the new spindle, and I will try and drive a bike with a broken spindle and pin installed to show the safety, etc.
Max, that was awesome! Great analysis of the problem, and the tow truck example was a perfect opportunity for damage being done to the stock spindle. Why Honda engineers used aluminum for such a CRITICAL part is mind boggling. Perhaps you should consider passing your concerns on to the NHTSA as a likely source of fatal accidents. Keep up the great work.
Great demonstration Max. I’m convinced that this will be my first modification when I purchase my Goldwing if Honda does not address this issue. Thank you!
Thank you sir. Your videos are always most instructive. With that said; and being an owner of a 2019 DCT Tour, my only comment is, Honda has erred in a most serious way. The mighty Goldwing has fallen. Who wants to ride a motorcycle and have any kind of thought in their mind that they may have absolutely no steering control? Max, thank you for your honest instruction and endeavor to keep folks informed. You're the best. Honda has a serious problem on their hands.
I like to say I don't know of anyone who has had to experience this yet, but the possibility certainly exists. Please see my video where I had a customer arrive with his steering broken... miraculously he and his wife weren't on it... I install my $25 pin, back it off the trailer and drive it away!
Wow that is unbelievable that should be a recall. Thanks for the info, I seen this video just in time: I was to pick up a brand-new 2021 DCT tour tomorrow. Forget the Goldwing I going back to a Harley.
Its good u highlighted this problem.but even better that you are making a part to fix this problem. Sign of good leader identify a problem but have a solution to fix it too. Honda would prob come up with this same fix too
Thank you, Max. Cruiseman recently did a video of his which refers to your videos. :) Hopefully, Mother Honda will incorporate this in newer Goldwings WITH the proper torque. :)
It's a Garmin VivoActive 3. The Road ID does fit poorly as it's intended for a smaller band. I complained to Road ID, they don't care. They sell 2 widths, and they are not interested in making a part that fits Garmins... which is just plain stupid. So many athletes wear Garmin products with the standard 22mm band width.
Thanks for this analysis, I wonder why this part was not steel in the first place. It seems like a or an odd place to make a weight reduction consideration if that was Honda’s intent.
I agree that over time the steering could fail just from normal wear and tear. The Grand Canyon wasn't built in a day. Also, I use my knee to raise my bikes, not my arms.
Another helpful video Max. I am interested in the stainless steel replacement when you have it ready for sale. I did buy the pin insert but haven’t studied how to access that location.
Just watched this after seeing Cruise mans vlog. This is right as my wife and I are entering the market for a used 2018-19 most likely. Very disappointed in Honda’s flimsy design and shocked there is no recall. Maybe the 21 will fix it beyond decreasing the torque on the stem but. Besides the stem needing to be solid steel, it should be larger diameter. Again a major and dangerous flaw in design ( remember the last gen GW frame woes?) at the release of a new flagship. And we have to accommodate by learning somehow abt the service bulletin, learning a new way to not place leverage on the bars, taking it in and the aftermarket fixing it. ( Thanks Traxxion) Great to see your
Your videos are the reason I backed away from a 2018 Goldwing DCT. I would have to pay for it and then pay for you to fully address so many areas that it made my Indian the best deal in town. Thank you for this.
agreed, the new GW has way too many issues for my taste. Max and his show team, luckily for those that own them, appears to be a badass at coming up with great solutions.
Thank you for your frank and eye-opening everyday use information about this critical part. I wonder if you could compare this Honda steering head assembly with that from BMW. How does their Telelever or Durolever assemblies differ? Are there similar potential failure problems with the BMW? (I'm thinking of getting a K1600GTL).
I haven't studied one, and we don't see them very frequently here. BMW owners tend to buy Ohlins or Wilbers parts and have them installed by their local shop.
Hi Max, I just received the steering pin. Shipping from your webshop was way to expensive to The Netherlands, so I asked a friend of mine in Texas to order it for me. He did send it over in a bubble envelope, which only cost USD 6,--. Maybe something to consider for your overseas customers?
This further supports my theory that my local dealer padded the bill to rip off me and my insurance company. I recently took a spill from hitting a pot hole. Aside from cosmetic damage. The steering was supposedly damn near overhauled. Get this. Fork supposedly replaced, both handlebars supposedly replaced. No rim damage which sent off a red flag. Caliper replaced. AFTER I saw it on the list of items to be replaced and when my bike was returned to me I noticed that the caliper had NOT been replaced. It was only after I questioned it that it was replaced, So I asked for all my parts that came off the bike. Most were returned. Since then my bike has been returned 2 times to work out Quirks that hadn't been properly done. Well the bike is there for a 3rd time because ''this topic" at hand is my current issue, wobbly handlebars just as they were the day when it was taken to my Certified local Honda (NY Honda Yamaha L.I.C NY) My bike has been under the weather since August 4th
I have a 2018 goldwing and my handlebars came loose. I had to take it back to the dealer for repairs. Said that mine was not the first, that a service bulletin came out about this. It needs to be a recall before someone gets killed.
It would be interesting to see a video on a broken spindle demonstrating your pin inserted into the hole. Just wondering if you have a pin installed and the spindle broke would you immediately know it or would the pin disconnect if you were to lift up on the handlebars. Thanks Max for a great job bringing this to light.
I'm going to do some videos soon on this topic. I will likely break one, and then put a pin in it and drive the bike around. You would definitely know if the spindle broke I believe. But it would not, could not "lift off", because I designed it to be long enough that the button console is above it and it cannot "lift off" high enough to ever come apart. So it is completely safe in that regard.
Thanks Max. Well I have just purchased the stainless center pin so I’ll likely need to visit you again to install the stainless shaft unless it can be done by the owner. Or Praise the Lord Honda would step up and do a recall under warranty. I’m holding my breath. Thank for giving us the possible danger now it is our decision to eliminate the risk or accept the alternative. As we use to say in the Army, a decision is a choice among alternatives. ☝🏻😎
Hi Bob, this could be done by a skilled home mechanic, but it will require a second person as you need an "upper" and a "lower" worker to do the assembly properly. The "lower" person could be your wife... you just need a 3rd hand.
I think they'll step up, but just hope they don't wait till theres a fatality to do it, like city traffic officials do to put a traffic light in a dangerous intersection.
Max, I was going to pick up a new 2021 DCT red tour today, I am having 2nd thoughts for a couple reasons. The new deal is: out the door it was going to be $28500, I don’t know if that is a good deal: it is the best I have found. I think I will wait for the 2022 and see what is going on at that time, before COVID in the Northern VA area the dealers were offering big discounts?? If Honda has not fixed the steering problem on the 2022 bikes, I will purchase one of your pins on which ever GW I get. Thanks for the reply have a good day!! Roger
This is not something Honda will address, so if you want a Goldwing, just go ahead and get one. There's no deals on Wings these days, the demand is very high!
That's an interesting question. I think a trike would be lkely to survive forever. You don't really have to push or pull on the bars since the trike is always level. It can't tip over. If it did, you could hopefully stop pretty fast, and you wouldn't fall over. So, a trike isn't a bad setup. I would still put my $20 pin in there, just in case!!!!
Thanks Max. My Wing has already tipped over once. I've recently done a wiggle test and it's definitely pretty flimsy, but I don't think it's compromised. I'd really like a replacement spindle though. I'd like to see Honda step up on this.
@@Traxxion No, it stopped at the tip over points, but i used the bars, and the grab rails to pick it up. Happened last year in the Hollywood hills, when I parked on a steep incline and lost my footing.
@@jamieweirdworld did you slow it from dropping, or did it drop when you weren't around it? I wonder what if it isn't possible for the bars to hit the ground.
@@jamieweirdworld that sounds like how you were able to avoid the bars hitting the ground. I think if one just fell over, the left bar would hit the ground.
So Maxx is this a possible Safety issue with my 2018 Goldwing Tour? Why is it that Honda not had a recall on this? I'm concerned about this. I will be visiting your shop for the modifications on the steering spindle soon. Craig Houma, Louisiana.
Max, do you have any specific information about the Service Bulletin from Honda concerning the overtorqued Nut on the 2018 models ? Do you have a Bulletin number or a month, when it was issued ? Honda-Europe has no such information issued. Would be very interesting. And the 2nd question just for confirmation: According to the Honda Service Manual the Torque Value of the "Steering Stem Nut" (That's the name Honda uses) is 76 lbf-ft. So now it is 51 dbf-ft ?
No one I know of has been injured or killed. They would not be interested. I contacted them once with ssome defective bicycle tires that had exploding beads, and never heard back from them.
This makes me glad I still have my 2015 Wing. The now fork on the 2018+ bikes is a crappy design. Honda should have stayed with the tried and true telescopic fork. I'm going to keep riding my 2015 a lot longer until Honda gets it right.
Not sure how this pin fixes anything. If that spindle breaks you’re still gonna have handlebars in your hand and no control over the bike… Why did you not just create a solid steel version of the spindle?
Yes, I should have explained that. A solid shaft is not significantly more crack resistant that one with a bore. Once a crack forms on the edge of the shaft or in a thread, it will propagate through anything, even a solid shaft. My goal is to make a shaft that is far less likely to crack, but with a parachute that can't fail in case anything goes wrong.
No disrespect, I got the point. Just not sure about the motivation. Did u present this to Honda? What was their response? When u title your video “fatal .....” you will get max attention. Thousands of riders are lying in bed at night now afraid of their new bikes; the rest are looking with anticipation to u for the cure. True, with mechanical parts, virtually anything can fail at any time, nothing is foolproof. If u look hard enough, u can find flaws. As for me, if I didn’t have relative trust in the manufacturer I wouldn’t have made the purchase. We all want to make our bikes better, safer. We just want to enjoy the ride without needless additional fear. So is your goal to make money, or is it a public service announcement? Or is it just FYI? If u care that much about mankind, offer the fix for free, that way your motives wouldn’t b questioned. I love my 18 GW, is it perfect? No, but I’m very happy with my decision. I’m not a machinist, or a motorcycle scholar; just an ordinary, pragmatic thinking guy. What r the chances that this part will fail on me? I have no idea, but I’m not going to loose sleep over it, and I’m not running over to Honda to tear things down to fix a non-problem just in case. While I wish u success in whatever u wanted here, I hope u will consider your words more wisely in the future. Had U said u found a potential issue instead of a “potentially fatal flaw....
@@lloydmitchell9712 So you've found the internet. Now that you are here, you can use "Google" to search my decades of service to the Goldwing Owner's Community. My integrity is only called into question by people too lazy to take a minute to research who I am. You are one of many Goldwing owners who are just plain bitter at the thought that they might have to spend a penny to fix a flaw with their bike, or to learn that there is a safety related flaw in it. I've met thousands like you over my 4 decades in the motorcycle industry. I am well versed in the English language, and I am quite literate. Nowhere in the title of this video does the word "Fatal" appear. If you can take a photo of where I've done that and circle the word "fatal", please do so. In speaking, I use the words "potentially fatal flaw" because this is a potentially fatal flaw. There's no doubt about it. If that pin breaks, the rider(s) will die.
I can be a DIY for a very skilled mechanic. It will also take a second set of hands to hold a ratchet from the bottom. You'll need the castle nut tool and a digital torque wrench.
Thanks ...it would have been nice to have seen you put in your safety pin and then try to flex the steering while we watch your tool marker over the spindle bore. That would be important to see...thankyou
So, how much work is involved in fitting the pin-only to the OEM stem, and how much time to swap out the whole stem when yiu have you s/less one ready ?
Quite concerned. Would like to know how and where to order the stainless. As for fixing? I am not sure I would try and Honda hasn't recalled . Labour looks intensive and costly. May wait until they get hit with a couple lawsuits and recall it. I will be rattling around those bars a lot. Can u imagine 70 mph and lose the steering? That would hurt.
Interestingly, I don't think it's as big of a problem on a trike. You don't have to push and pull on the trike bars as much over the life of the bike. ROTATING the bars of trike takes more leverage, but that is not a problem in this case.
@@wrwebb9272 At first I didn't notice a huge difference to be honest. However, after riding it for 500+ miles, I started noticing the front end a lot more stable and the tie rods not dancing nearly as much. I have the 2018 base goldwing model; what used to be the F6B. I am 6ft and 265, and ride solo. It rides extremely well and smooth on the interstate and handles great in the mountains. I did the upgrade because I was feeling the bottoming out quite often and knew it would benefit me in the long run.
Thanks Max for your efforts to design and produce these beautiful parts. The tip over mirror and side case mouldings are awesome. The case bash plate...I got the alcan version, is bullet proof. Huge piece of mind with that. And the cell phone holder/charger is excellent. Thanks a bunch, Mark
Titanium is stronger but it is also more brittle. It is also very hard to work with and takes special tooling. Also getting stock to work with would make this part extremely expensive.
@@colinkennedy8523 Tim nailed it. Weight isn't a consideration on a part that size. We are also going to have a complete replacement spindle made of Stainless Steel in about a week. Watch for video on that.
@@Traxxion Thanks Max! Definitely looking forward to it. I have a 2018 so particularly interested in ensuring this risk is addressed to the extent I'm able!
Gday mate i cant believe the bars moved so much that is scary ,why did honda use aluminium for a stuctural part of the steering ? with a massive hole through it surely that has to be a recall surely , can you imagine if someone was critically injured and they proved this was the cause massive law suit pending .I just watched some one who has a 2021 he shows the vibration in his front wheel at 40mph something definately wrong and no one knows what i hope he watches this video .
They haven't had any real problems after 6 years, so it's probably OK. I only know of one crash, but I wouldn't have wanted to be that guy! My patented Safety Pin is a cheap insurance!
Honda should just purchase your upgrades and then market the 2022 wing as a upgraded by Traxxion super charged winglet. Call it the SW model. Super Wing. 💡
The design flaw is absolutely staggering Max. Watch out all you who think, not my bike, and future pre-owned buyers. Another reason for sticking with my 2004 bike. It's a growing list. The B-RC reference was hilarious.
So happy you have more excuse to keep your 16 year old bike! You must not ride that much lol. No design is flawless, if this really becomes a thing it will be addressed. Remember this gentleman is in the aftermarket parts business........
Very concerning as I have a 2018. Honda should be recalling this motorcycle and fixing them on warranty? If that does not happen where can one get the stainless steel product?
I've never picked up a bike by the handlebars after it has fallen. I always use my body with my back to the seat and raise it with my legs while holding on to something solid.
The technique of “something solid” is the handle bar and the passenger hand rail with ass in the saddle. Routinely demo’d at any Honda Display events like Bike Week.
They don't care what I think about their motorcycle. If they did, they would have contacted me before they made this bike. After a 15+ years of thousands and thousands of raving customers, you would think they would visit me.
Because these '18+ bikes are a complete redesign not many even have more than 50k Miles on them yet. Im curious to see what happens after 100 or 200k miles on them In time. Even the new 4 valve engine was redesigned and a lot of people are getting ticking out of the right cylinder head😮😮. In no way do these have my full confidence yet as in Gen 5 I have full confidence, NOT plunking down $34k out the door for a '23 yet..
I've never heard of a $34,000 Goldwing, at least not in USD. This bike is 6 years old now, and has millions and millions of miles on it. If there were any significant drivetrain, reliability, or safety issues with it, we would know by now. You can move up whenever you are ready!
@@Traxxion Yes the 18+ may have millions and millions of miles already but that's only 1 person putting maybe 30k-40k miles on theirs all added up between everybody, it's not 500,000 people with 200,000 + Miles on theirs yet... Yes a brand new '23 DCT (not a fan, only manual) is $29k-30k then taxes and doc fees your at $33k+ out the door USD.
Good to know Max. Thanks for the effort and research
in finding these issues..
Max thanx for your attention to detail on this life saving matter, and I would not think twice about installing your remedy to this incredible oversigh on Honda's part.
I'm a new subscriber. Thank you for the heads-up Max. So far your vlogs are serious and educational and I look forward to catching up to as many as possible in between rides. Cheers!
Feel free to ask questions any time!
Max I sent your other video on the steering head failure just recently to a friend of mine with a 2018 Goldwing. He replied that he's been aware of this issue for sometime. When he was in Wisconsin visiting, his brother-in-law, who is a machinist at Boeing, duplicated the part for him out of titanium, without the hole thru the middle. Besides being much stronger, it is considerably lighter.
The downside is that he paid over $900 for the titanium billet. Interesting that he knew about it and tried to fix it too. You're on the right track, question is why isn't Honda?
Not sure, but I'll have my stainless one on the bike for demonstration test in an day or two. They will retail for around $125-$150.
Max, thank you for the in-depth explanation of the issue and the solutions that you have engineered. I received the spindle center pin from you. I will definitely be ordering your stainless steel replacement spindle and castle nut, as soon as you have the stainless steel replacement spindle available on your website.
Watch for videos this week on this topic. I will have the new spindle, and I will try and drive a bike with a broken spindle and pin installed to show the safety, etc.
Max, that was awesome! Great analysis of the problem, and the tow truck example was a perfect opportunity for damage being done to the stock spindle. Why Honda engineers used aluminum for such a CRITICAL part is mind boggling. Perhaps you should consider passing your concerns on to the NHTSA as a likely source of fatal accidents. Keep up the great work.
To my knowledge, no one has been injured yet, and I hope no one ever is. But the possibility certainly exists.
Great demonstration Max. I’m convinced that this will be my first modification when I purchase my Goldwing if Honda does not address this issue. Thank you!
Right on!
Another great instructive video , Thanks max, I miss my Gw
“Billy Ray Cletus” 🤣😂🤣 Thank you! For the informative videos as usual!
Max, I don't ride a Wing, but thanks for fixing Honda's failure/oversight. I loved the reference to Billy Ray Cletus. LOL
Thank you sir. Your videos are always most instructive. With that said; and being an owner of a 2019 DCT Tour, my only comment is, Honda has erred in a most serious way. The mighty Goldwing has fallen. Who wants to ride a motorcycle and have any kind of thought in their mind that they may have absolutely no steering control? Max, thank you for your honest instruction and endeavor to keep folks informed. You're the best. Honda has a serious problem on their hands.
I like to say I don't know of anyone who has had to experience this yet, but the possibility certainly exists. Please see my video where I had a customer arrive with his steering broken... miraculously he and his wife weren't on it... I install my $25 pin, back it off the trailer and drive it away!
I love the voices you do
Very important information for a safe ride, thanks!
Wow that is unbelievable that should be a recall. Thanks for the info, I seen this video just in time: I was to pick up a brand-new 2021 DCT tour tomorrow. Forget the Goldwing I going back to a Harley.
Thank you Max. I ordered your steering safety pin.
Happy to help!
Brilliant video. I hope Honda watches this.
Billy Ray Cletus driving his Thunder Clapper tow truck 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This was so good I had to watch it again
thank you for addressing this most serious flaw. I am sure that Honda will address tis as well.
Hope so!
Wow! Thank you for showing this! Hopefully Honda will do a recall, but I won’t hold my breath.
Me neither...
Very Good Descriptive Video, You Stress Some Very Good Points!!!
Great information to know .
My 2018 handlebar head nut loosened shortly after I had my bike shipped. Replaced everything I could with traxxion. Thanks.
Thanks Scott!
Its good u highlighted this problem.but even better that you are making a part to fix this problem. Sign of good leader identify a problem but have a solution to fix it too. Honda would prob come up with this same fix too
NHTSA should order a recall of all Goldwings, and force Honda to fix this problem at Honda's expense before anyone is hurt.
I think the NHTSA is a reactive agency, not a proactive one.
Thank you, Max. Cruiseman recently did a video of his which refers to your videos. :) Hopefully, Mother Honda will incorporate this in newer Goldwings WITH the proper torque. :)
They did correct the torque in 2019 models going forward. However, all of the spindles are made of aluminum on all bikes.
great informative well produced video - looks like your wearing a Garmin Venu w/RoadID tag
It's a Garmin VivoActive 3. The Road ID does fit poorly as it's intended for a smaller band. I complained to Road ID, they don't care. They sell 2 widths, and they are not interested in making a part that fits Garmins... which is just plain stupid. So many athletes wear Garmin products with the standard 22mm band width.
Thanks for this analysis, I wonder why this part was not steel in the first place. It seems like a or an odd place to make a weight reduction consideration if that was Honda’s intent.
I agree that over time the steering could fail just from normal wear and tear. The Grand Canyon wasn't built in a day. Also, I use my knee to raise my bikes, not my arms.
Another helpful video Max. I am interested in the stainless steel replacement when you have it ready for sale. I did buy the pin insert but haven’t studied how to access that location.
I will have a video this week, it is so easy to install, it can be done in about 5-10 minutes.
True innovators and design geniuses!
There's more than one of me?!?!?!
@@Traxxion You da Man Max!!
@@bamahi7142 HAHA!
Just watched this after seeing Cruise mans vlog. This is right as my wife and I are entering the market for a used 2018-19 most likely. Very disappointed in Honda’s flimsy design and shocked there is no recall. Maybe the 21 will fix it beyond decreasing the torque on the stem but. Besides the stem needing to be solid steel, it should be larger diameter. Again a major and dangerous flaw in design ( remember the last gen GW frame woes?) at the release of a new flagship. And we have to accommodate by learning somehow abt the service bulletin, learning a new way to not place leverage on the bars, taking it in and the aftermarket fixing it. ( Thanks Traxxion)
Great to see your
Always glad to help!
Greay work Max.
Watch for several cool new videos on testing this spindle this week against our new part.
Your videos are the reason I backed away from a 2018 Goldwing DCT. I would have to pay for it and then pay for you to fully address so many areas that it made my Indian the best deal in town. Thank you for this.
agreed, the new GW has way too many issues for my taste. Max and his show team, luckily for those that own them, appears to be a badass at coming up with great solutions.
Do not own a 2018, but i take you issue first than the scepticism of Cruiseman !
Thanks, Max.
Thank you for your frank and eye-opening everyday use information about this critical part.
I wonder if you could compare this Honda steering head assembly with that from BMW. How does their Telelever or Durolever assemblies differ? Are there similar potential failure problems with the BMW? (I'm thinking of getting a K1600GTL).
I haven't studied one, and we don't see them very frequently here. BMW owners tend to buy Ohlins or Wilbers parts and have them installed by their local shop.
Good nfo. Thanks Max
Hi Max, I just received the steering pin. Shipping from your webshop was way to expensive to The Netherlands, so I asked a friend of mine in Texas to order it for me. He did send it over in a bubble envelope, which only cost USD 6,--. Maybe something to consider for your overseas customers?
Great video, explain ation. More videos
will do! Check out the "Join" button to support this channel!
I was wondering about this , now that you expain the main component is basically aluminum you can understand the alarming concern.
This further supports my theory that my local dealer padded the bill to rip off me and my insurance company. I recently took a spill from hitting a pot hole. Aside from cosmetic damage. The steering was supposedly damn near overhauled. Get this. Fork supposedly replaced, both handlebars supposedly replaced. No rim damage which sent off a red flag. Caliper replaced. AFTER I saw it on the list of items to be replaced and when my bike was returned to me I noticed that the caliper had NOT been replaced. It was only after I questioned it that it was replaced, So I asked for all my parts that came off the bike. Most were returned. Since then my bike has been returned 2 times to work out Quirks that hadn't been properly done. Well the bike is there for a 3rd time because ''this topic" at hand is my current issue, wobbly handlebars just as they were the day when it was taken to my Certified local Honda (NY Honda Yamaha L.I.C NY) My bike has been under the weather since August 4th
Wow, that's a sad story. I hate it for you.
I have a 2018 goldwing and my handlebars came loose. I had to take it back to the dealer for repairs. Said that mine was not the first, that a service bulletin came out about this. It needs to be a recall before someone gets killed.
It would be interesting to see a video on a broken spindle demonstrating your pin inserted into the hole. Just wondering if you have a pin installed and the spindle broke would you immediately know it or would the pin disconnect if you were to lift up on the handlebars. Thanks Max for a great job bringing this to light.
I'm going to do some videos soon on this topic. I will likely break one, and then put a pin in it and drive the bike around. You would definitely know if the spindle broke I believe. But it would not, could not "lift off", because I designed it to be long enough that the button console is above it and it cannot "lift off" high enough to ever come apart. So it is completely safe in that regard.
Awesome, I am looking forward to this. Thanks.
Great points Max as always. Love that you will offer a stainless steel spindle. But why make it hollow when you also add the backup pin?
Oh. Just found your previous response to this question. Thanks!
Wow crazy on Honda’s part. 😯 😎🏍💨💨💨💨👍🏻🇨🇦
Thanks Max. Well I have just purchased the stainless center pin so I’ll likely need to visit you again to install the stainless shaft unless it can be done by the owner. Or Praise the Lord Honda would step up and do a recall under warranty. I’m holding my breath. Thank for giving us the possible danger now it is our decision to eliminate the risk or accept the alternative. As we use to say in the Army, a decision is a choice among alternatives. ☝🏻😎
Hi Bob, this could be done by a skilled home mechanic, but it will require a second person as you need an "upper" and a "lower" worker to do the assembly properly. The "lower" person could be your wife... you just need a 3rd hand.
I think they'll step up, but just hope they don't wait till theres a fatality to do it, like city traffic officials do to put a traffic light in a dangerous intersection.
@@javig5045 I am not optimistic about this, but we'll see.
If concern let your voice be heard by Honda. The customer service. They have info here.
powersports.honda.com/faqs
Max,
I was going to pick up a new 2021 DCT red tour today, I am having 2nd thoughts for a couple reasons. The new deal is: out the door it was going to be $28500, I don’t know if that is a good deal: it is the best I have found. I think I will wait for the 2022 and see what is going on at that time, before COVID in the Northern VA area the dealers were offering big discounts?? If Honda has not fixed the steering problem on the 2022 bikes, I will purchase one of your pins on which ever GW I get.
Thanks for the reply have a good day!!
Roger
This is not something Honda will address, so if you want a Goldwing, just go ahead and get one. There's no deals on Wings these days, the demand is very high!
Wow, that is a lot of flex on the spindle..😮
It's surprising.
I wonder if the stress overtime and then hit a big enough pothole, train tracks, bridge could have enough jolt to break in through the spindle
I believe that possibility exists.
Very interesting. Will the torque specs change with the stainless steel spindle?
Yes, we'll use the higher torque spec like millions of other steel spindled Wings.
What about the forces from steering a trike? I have a Roadsmith with their reduced trail front end.
That's an interesting question. I think a trike would be lkely to survive forever. You don't really have to push or pull on the bars since the trike is always level. It can't tip over. If it did, you could hopefully stop pretty fast, and you wouldn't fall over. So, a trike isn't a bad setup. I would still put my $20 pin in there, just in case!!!!
Thanks Max. My Wing has already tipped over once. I've recently done a wiggle test and it's definitely pretty flimsy, but I don't think it's compromised. I'd really like a replacement spindle though. I'd like to see Honda step up on this.
I'm curious, when it tipped, did it definitely hit the handlebar?
@@Traxxion No, it stopped at the tip over points, but i used the bars, and the grab rails to pick it up. Happened last year in the Hollywood hills, when I parked on a steep incline and lost my footing.
@@jamieweirdworld did you slow it from dropping, or did it drop when you weren't around it? I wonder what if it isn't possible for the bars to hit the ground.
@@Traxxion I was on the bike, and had ahold of it. It was really tough to get up though, and I had to recruit a helper.
@@jamieweirdworld that sounds like how you were able to avoid the bars hitting the ground. I think if one just fell over, the left bar would hit the ground.
So Maxx is this a possible Safety issue with my 2018 Goldwing Tour? Why is it that Honda not had a recall on this? I'm concerned about this. I will be visiting your shop for the modifications on the steering spindle soon.
Craig
Houma, Louisiana.
There is no recall, and there hasn't been anyone injured that I know of. But the possibility exists. We will have an upgraded part for sale this week.
Max, do you have any specific information about the Service Bulletin from Honda concerning the overtorqued Nut on the 2018 models ? Do you have a Bulletin number or a month, when it was issued ? Honda-Europe has no such information issued. Would be very interesting. And the 2nd question just for confirmation: According to the Honda Service Manual the Torque Value of the "Steering Stem Nut" (That's the name Honda uses) is 76 lbf-ft. So now it is 51 dbf-ft ?
GL1800 Service Bulletin #1, February 2019.
Torque is supposed to be 51 ft/lbs. 2019+ bikes appear to have been built this way, 2018s were over-torqued to the steel spec.
@@Traxxion Many thanks 4 info !!
Have you notified the NHSTA with your findings?
No one I know of has been injured or killed. They would not be interested. I contacted them once with ssome defective bicycle tires that had exploding beads, and never heard back from them.
Makes me happy I bought a GEN 4 wing :)
I don't know what that is.
What year did they upgrade to a steel spindle?
They haven't. We sell the only steel one... Ours is stainless steel.
Thanks...where do I get a stainless steel one and how much?
www.traxxion.com Spindle and pin kit $149.95. Pin only is $24.95.
God forbid that Honda just make the steering stem out of steel. *roll eyes*
What is your schedule like next spring?
Wide open right now.
Wouldn't it be even stronger if you just made it fully solid over making it hollow and using the pin as well?
The center of large diameter shaft doesn't add any significant strength.
Are all your upgraded bikes retorqued to this new spec?
Not all, as this is a "new" thing we have learned about.
This makes me glad I still have my 2015 Wing. The now fork on the 2018+ bikes is a crappy design. Honda should have stayed with the tried and true telescopic fork. I'm going to keep riding my 2015 a lot longer until Honda gets it right.
Not sure how this pin fixes anything. If that spindle breaks you’re still gonna have handlebars in your hand and no control over the bike… Why did you not just create a solid steel version of the spindle?
The best idea making in stainless steel.
Yes, thanks
Hi Max, why don't you make the spindle solid? In stead of hollow with a pin?
Solid spindles can crack just like a hollow one. The separate pin makes it impossible for the rider to ever lose control.
@@Traxxion Thank you
Is there a reason that you just don’t make the replacement solid and forgo the safety pin?
Yes, I should have explained that. A solid shaft is not significantly more crack resistant that one with a bore. Once a crack forms on the edge of the shaft or in a thread, it will propagate through anything, even a solid shaft. My goal is to make a shaft that is far less likely to crack, but with a parachute that can't fail in case anything goes wrong.
No disrespect, I got the point. Just not sure about the motivation. Did u present this to Honda? What was their response? When u title your video “fatal .....” you will get max attention. Thousands of riders are lying in bed at night now afraid of their new bikes; the rest are looking with anticipation to u for the cure. True, with mechanical parts, virtually anything can fail at any time, nothing is foolproof. If u look hard enough, u can find flaws. As for me, if I didn’t have relative trust in the manufacturer I wouldn’t have made the purchase. We all want to make our bikes better, safer. We just want to enjoy the ride without needless additional fear. So is your goal to make money, or is it a public service announcement? Or is it just FYI? If u care that much about mankind, offer the fix for free, that way your motives wouldn’t b questioned. I love my 18 GW, is it perfect? No, but I’m very happy with my decision. I’m not a machinist, or a motorcycle scholar; just an ordinary, pragmatic thinking guy. What r the chances that this part will fail on me? I have no idea, but I’m not going to loose sleep over it, and I’m not running over to Honda to tear things down to fix a non-problem just in case. While I wish u success in whatever u wanted here, I hope u will consider your words more wisely in the future. Had U said u found a potential issue instead of a “potentially fatal flaw....
@@lloydmitchell9712 So you've found the internet. Now that you are here, you can use "Google" to search my decades of service to the Goldwing Owner's Community. My integrity is only called into question by people too lazy to take a minute to research who I am.
You are one of many Goldwing owners who are just plain bitter at the thought that they might have to spend a penny to fix a flaw with their bike, or to learn that there is a safety related flaw in it. I've met thousands like you over my 4 decades in the motorcycle industry.
I am well versed in the English language, and I am quite literate. Nowhere in the title of this video does the word "Fatal" appear. If you can take a photo of where I've done that and circle the word "fatal", please do so.
In speaking, I use the words "potentially fatal flaw" because this is a potentially fatal flaw. There's no doubt about it. If that pin breaks, the rider(s) will die.
@@lloydmitchell9712 Jackass.
@@lloydmitchell9712How could this not be a recall?? I would say if my handlebars came off when I was going down the road that is a fatal flaw!!
Hi Max, will this be a diy project? Do you have a guesstimate on the price?
I can be a DIY for a very skilled mechanic. It will also take a second set of hands to hold a ratchet from the bottom. You'll need the castle nut tool and a digital torque wrench.
The new spindle will be around $125.
Thanks ...it would have been nice to have seen you put in your safety pin and then try to flex the steering while we watch your tool marker over the spindle bore. That would be important to see...thankyou
That's a good idea, I will do that.
Thanks ...i hope you can tag me so i can view it....I've already purchased this pin and it's installed 😁
@@accordiondr just subscribe to my channel and you'll see it shortly.
Please let me know when you’re done fixing Honda’s mistake I want to order it
I will have a product video in about a week most likely. We already have the first operation on the CNC Machines right now!
@@Traxxion I would be interested as well. dmboyd1@gmail.com
@@danielboyd9380 I will have several new and cool videos on this topic this week.
So, how much work is involved in fitting the pin-only to the OEM stem, and how much time to swap out the whole stem when yiu have you s/less one ready ?
Quite concerned. Would like to know how and where to order the stainless. As for fixing? I am not sure I would try and Honda hasn't recalled . Labour looks intensive and costly. May wait until they get hit with a couple lawsuits and recall it. I will be rattling around those bars a lot. Can u imagine 70 mph and lose the steering? That would hurt.
Aluminum can fatigue quickly with that much flexing. Sign me up for your replacement part, Max.
Watch for more videos this week!
Max is this an issue on the trikes?
Interestingly, I don't think it's as big of a problem on a trike. You don't have to push and pull on the trike bars as much over the life of the bike. ROTATING the bars of trike takes more leverage, but that is not a problem in this case.
Max, I just had my bike in for a shock upgrade.... did you happen to add the reinforcing pin?
Hi Brian, This part didn't exist then. Sorry!
How do you like the shock upgrade?
@@wrwebb9272 At first I didn't notice a huge difference to be honest. However, after riding it for 500+ miles, I started noticing the front end a lot more stable and the tie rods not dancing nearly as much. I have the 2018 base goldwing model; what used to be the F6B. I am 6ft and 265, and ride solo. It rides extremely well and smooth on the interstate and handles great in the mountains. I did the upgrade because I was feeling the bottoming out quite often and knew it would benefit me in the long run.
Brian Kay thank you
Has this been changed in the 2020's? Or same as 18, and 19's
To my knowledge, the only thing that has changed on the newer models is the torque specs on the aluminum spindle.
Correct.
WOW 😳😮
Did they change that spindle for the 20,21,22, 23,24???
No, no, no, no and let me check.... no.
Thanks Max for your efforts to design and produce these beautiful parts.
The tip over mirror and side case mouldings are awesome. The case bash plate...I got the alcan version, is bullet proof. Huge piece of mind with that.
And the cell phone holder/charger is excellent.
Thanks a bunch,
Mark
@@markdebitetto8671 I'm glad you are pleased!
Thanks .. How about the old model.
There has never been a problem with a telescopic fork.
Thank you for your Reply
Why don't you make a steel spindle?
Never mind.
Max - I'll buy this for sure. Wonder why not titanium, instead of steel?
Titanium is stronger but it is also more brittle. It is also very hard to work with and takes special tooling. Also getting stock to work with would make this part extremely expensive.
Tim Snider makes sense .. wondered if the weight would be closer to the intended function of original aluminum but those are very fair points!
@@colinkennedy8523 Tim nailed it. Weight isn't a consideration on a part that size. We are also going to have a complete replacement spindle made of Stainless Steel in about a week. Watch for video on that.
@@Traxxion Thanks Max! Definitely looking forward to it. I have a 2018 so particularly interested in ensuring this risk is addressed to the extent I'm able!
Gday mate i cant believe the bars moved so much that is scary ,why did honda use aluminium for a stuctural part of the steering ? with a massive hole through it surely that has to be a recall surely , can you imagine if someone was critically injured and they proved this was the cause massive law suit pending .I just watched some one who has a 2021 he shows the vibration in his front wheel at 40mph something definately wrong and no one knows what i hope he watches this video .
They haven't had any real problems after 6 years, so it's probably OK. I only know of one crash, but I wouldn't have wanted to be that guy! My patented Safety Pin is a cheap insurance!
Honda should just purchase your upgrades and then market the 2022 wing as a upgraded by Traxxion super charged winglet. Call it the SW model. Super Wing. 💡
We call them "Traxxion Edition" and have a special logo we put on bikes we upgrade.
Yeah I've got to admit, that aluminum shaft is pretty concerning.
The design flaw is absolutely staggering Max. Watch out all you who think, not my bike, and future pre-owned buyers. Another reason for sticking with my 2004 bike. It's a growing list. The B-RC reference was hilarious.
So happy you have more excuse to keep your 16 year old bike! You must not ride that much lol. No design is flawless, if this really becomes a thing it will be addressed. Remember this gentleman is in the aftermarket parts business........
And my 39 year old GL1100 which like my 16 year old GL1800 has no potentially catastrophic design flaws.
Fear-mongering no known issues with failure . But I get you're trying to sell parts.
Very concerning as I have a 2018. Honda should be recalling this motorcycle and fixing them on warranty? If that does not happen where can one get the stainless steel product?
www.traxxion.com Should be available within one week. Watch for more videos on this topic.
I cannot predict what Honda will do. Since no one has been injured that I know of, they will probably not be taking any action.
@@Traxxion Thankyou for your reply.
Great thanks
👍
well until they fix it and not just put a bandaide on it i will not be geting one
As a re-entry rider, I will not buy that _shiny new 2019 Wing of my dreams_ after seeing this video.
You can buy the bike, and this flaw can be easily fixed.
Wow
Why hasn't Honda addressed the problem?
I've never picked up a bike by the handlebars after it has fallen. I always use my body with my back to the seat and raise it with my legs while holding on to something solid.
The technique of “something solid” is the handle bar and the passenger hand rail with ass in the saddle. Routinely demo’d at any Honda Display events like Bike Week.
looks like you missed the point, a point by the way that could save your life someday.
I'm surprised Honda legal Hasn't called you, or at least their tech dept.
They don't care what I think about their motorcycle. If they did, they would have contacted me before they made this bike. After a 15+ years of thousands and thousands of raving customers, you would think they would visit me.
Because these '18+ bikes are a complete redesign not many even have more than 50k Miles on them yet. Im curious to see what happens after 100 or 200k miles on them In time. Even the new 4 valve engine was redesigned and a lot of people are getting ticking out of the right cylinder head😮😮. In no way do these have my full confidence yet as in Gen 5 I have full confidence, NOT plunking down $34k out the door for a '23 yet..
I've never heard of a $34,000 Goldwing, at least not in USD.
This bike is 6 years old now, and has millions and millions of miles on it. If there were any significant drivetrain, reliability, or safety issues with it, we would know by now.
You can move up whenever you are ready!
@@Traxxion Yes the 18+ may have millions and millions of miles already but that's only 1 person putting maybe 30k-40k miles on theirs all added up between everybody, it's not 500,000 people with 200,000 + Miles on theirs yet...
Yes a brand new '23 DCT (not a fan, only manual) is $29k-30k then taxes and doc fees your at $33k+ out the door USD.
Billy Ray cletus, find the proper tiedown spots.
So, how many accidents related to this? Paranoia and fear always sell. Yes, anything can happen but looks like a cure looking for a problem to me, js
No known accidents. You miss the point of this video.
Damn. I have this EXACT "bump" in the handle bars of my 2021 DCT non-tour. Shit.......
Bummer.
I have a 2023 dct converted to full tour. What does it need and how much. 10 grand
For steering parts? Only a few hundred dollars.