Scrub Plane Vs Fore Plane How to Use and Sharpen
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2024
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What is the difference between a foreplane and a scrub plane, and How do you sharpen the cambered iron of a fore plane or a scrub plane.
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If in doubt, do what I did. I found an old cheap plane in a second hand store for one dollar! Chambered the blade and wow! A scrub plane. Not pretty, but what would be considered a piece of junk now chews wood like a bezerk beaver. It has earned a place on my bench.
I’ve heard a few people say that you should stick with the coarsest tool as long as possible. This definitely makes your work faster and easier.
Right on.
The amount of time you can spend is completely dependent on amount of wood. It requires a certain amount of athleticism lol
I've found that this is true when working with axe split / riven wood and 90% of my plane work is done with a scrub plane
Agreed, use the coarsest tool for as long as you can and you will finish your work as fast as you can.
I guess when I was younger I was using my number 4 as a scrub plane, getting older with a decent plane I took thinner shavings. Now I’m really old I use a planer thicknesser. But I still use rough sawn timber as it is cheaper. For fine work smoothing I go back to my expensive planes with decent quality irons well sharpened. That is what I should have done as a newbie except I had very little money. It’s all great fun and satisfying. These videos are preserving important skills that power tool woodworkers do need.
Traditionaly in Denmark, and I belive this is actualy a German tradition, we have 3 planes. Skrub høvl. It literaly means Scrub Plane, The next was the "Slet Høvl" Slet is delete or erase. It was used after the scrub to erase the marks left by the "Skrup Høvl". The final one is callet the "Puds Høvl" It's the finish plane. "Puds" can best be translated to polish, but the word is from before we had sand paper. The "Slet Høvl" is almost identical to the Puds Høvl. It's a bit longer about 3/4" and the moth is a bit wider.
The German terms are 'Schrupphobel' for the scrub plane, which is then followed by the 'Schlichthobel'. This one has little camber, a big mouth and no chipbreaker. Schlicht means 'plain', so I guess it's a 'plaining plane' :). Its job is to turn the scolloped surface left by the scrub plane into a 'plain' fairly smooth surface. The 'Raubank' (long try plane) might also get used at this point.
Then comes the 'Doppelhobel' which is like the Schlichthobel, but with a smaller mouth and a chipbreaker (hence the name 'double plane'). This gets you (almost) to the final surface.
At the very end you use the 'Putzhobel'. Putzen means to clean, so that might be the origin of the name. It has a higher angle and a shorter sole, as well as a small mouth. The mouth size is sometimes even adjustable.
The difference, I think, has to do with whether you're working sawn or riven boards.
With a sawn board, a medium length plane with a wide and medium depth cut would quickly flatten a board and even get it mostly true.
With a riven board there would be more individual (and significant) high spots that had to be removed first, so a handy light plane that could take a deep and narrow cut made more sense.
Try a German scrub plane, they are ridiculously light and handy.
Basically, same mindset as sand paper.
Start with 80-grit and use finer and finer grits until you get a smooth finish.
In addition to removing large amounts of material, I've found that scrub planes are helpful for targeting knots which cause issues with a less cambered iron. I found trying to flatten a board with knots (especially pine) I would get little raised mounts around the knot because it would cause the plane to lift, also the knots dulled the blade very fast. Using a scrub plane to get the center of the knot lower than the surrounding area made things a lot easier
The Harbor Freight (or Amazon Basic Plane) make good options.
Buy one, learn to set them up. Develop your basic plane skills, buy a better one, convert
old Basic to a scrub.
Kind of like learning to drive in an old beater car. Develop the skills than upgrade.
Great video. I made a scrub plane from a cheap Harbor Freight copy of the #4. That $15 thing is a monster when it comes to hogging off wood.
Your best advice is to remake and old 4 or 5 into your scrub plane. That said, compared to buying an old #40, the Lee Valley scrub plane is about the same price. I have one and it works like a dream. The price for the Lie Nielsen is shockingly higher.
Rough and Ready, just like me! My favourite use for my old no 5. Plane to see! LOL.
I guess I am the odd-ball out when it comes to scrub/fore plane use. I still use them about as much as I did be-fore 🤪.
I do not have a Stanley no 40 or a specific scrub plane from other manufacturers, but have made a few from damaged planes.
No 4’s and 5’s that at some point in their lives got a cracked mouth that previous owners soldered I have found to be good scrubs, along with no 78’s (damaged or not).
The range between a #3 and #6 is so confusing, even the experts have different preferences. I was able to get a lot of them cheap, so I could choose whichever one works for me. Then like James, impressive tool wall! The scrub plane can easily be the cheapest: a wooden body, an off-brand, a parts plane with missing pieces. Or make one.
i recently got an old stanley scrub plane, lots of fun to use!
That’s a great video loads of info. Thank you
This oughta get haters blood pumping.... My first brand new plane purchase was a Lie Nielsen scrub plane. The sexiest workhorse in Terre Haute, IN. Why not? I was also their cheapest plane by over $100.
I turned a #4 from a big box store into my scrub plane. It was cheap but works just fine
Thanks for this explanation, James. Great information as always.
I generally get rough sawn wood and I agree those two planes work great!
I bought a five pack of replacement irons for my number five, ground a big old curve of the front of one and *presto* I have a killer scrub plane for my "Roubo workbench from trees I cut" project. Yeah, changing out the blade is a bit of an annoyance, so I got another plane... and I may have started an addiction.
No dad joke to end the video with?! I am shocked!
I forgot it! the day I shot this one I shot 6 other videos.
I love all your shows and everything you do
Buying S3S lumber definitely reduced my use of scrub planes (#40 & modified #5).
I usually planed on the diagonal, cross grain. The ridges help me determine how I’m doing on the next step.
I have found scrub planes particularly useful for twisted or cupped boards, even with a shop full of tailed apprentices (jointer, plainer, table saw). They knock off the high spots before power tools.
I have heard fore planes also referred to as try planes.
Wow, you gave me a lot to think about. I’m not a young buck anymore and you’re approach to just buy the lumber more finished to begin with really is provoking a lot different thought process as to the tools I’ll need for this hobby. Thanks for your time and sharing your vast knowledge!
Thank you for this explaneation..
.
I literally received a new ECE scrub today. I have been using a modified Handyman #4, but I haven't been super happy with it.
Thanks for sharing.
Really excellent tips, James! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
This all sounded like the plane truth to me.
Thanks, I'll be waiting for the cambered iron video
Great idea turning your clunker to a scrub. Thanks James😊
Thanks for sharing that
Thanks James. So, my #5 'scrub' is really a fore plane and the other #5 is a bench plane I use as a finisher. Neither has an aggressive chamber, just feathered edges. Take care & stay safe.
I hear that TLC only uses fore planes. They don't want no scrubs.
I have found that the price for S2S vs skip (or hit/miss) planing is fairly negligible compared to the time spent truing a board on anything larger than a coffee or side table. Therefore, it might be better to go with the rougher lumber on smaller projects to save money at the cost of time.
I took a second No. 5 iron and put a 10" or 12" radius on the blade for the rougher lumber. It is also handy on 8/4 and larger lumber where the resistance in the cut causes the blade to dish a valley in the board. I find my converted fore blade in my No. 5 works perfectly well for it.
I found a crappy copy of the stanley sb3 (the one with two screws on either side of the blade) and gave it a second chance as a scrub. It works very well for that as it doesn't need any precise adjustments.
I usually buy rough sawn lumber and a scrub plane or fore plane is often used to clean up spots before running them through a power jointer and thickness planer. Why fight with the jointer for 5 minutes on a curved edge when a scrub can remove that curve in under a minute?
Scrub planes are great... but I just made one from an cheap old number 4. In fact, it was free - a Stanley Handyman I was given, and with the mouth widened and a curve on the iron, it works just fine.
Never knew about these type planes. I do now!
I have a no 5 thats the modern new stanley no 5 made in the last few years. I think I will be turning it into a foreplane after this! I have a older no 5 I got from my dad that has a much finer mouth that I would like to keep as more of a finishing plane.
Thanks
I traverse the grain if it's wide and lumpy or twisted and follow up with the fireplace with the grain. My foreplane is a 16" transitional my grandmother used as an apprentice ship builder.
Just a comment! Great video!
If it scrubs it’s a scrubber. And a plain scrubber scrubs 😂
I made my scrub from some crappy no3 sized abomination with metal spoke shave style adjustments. I also have an antique from my paternal grandparents' basement that is either a round bottomed scrub or a round with a very large mouth that I have not gotten around to using.
I also do a lot less scrub planing since I got my bandsaw, with the right sled you can get stuff fairly flat of the bandsaw.
Comment down below. 😊
Veritas and lie-Nielsen both make new scrub planes, and the tend to be the cheapest planes in their respective line ups. I’m holding out for an old wood fire plane, but if I can’t find one that works out, I’ll probably get the veritas one.
So was the blue shirt printed by Euclid or the Wright Brothers😂?
And 😆 you look like you go through as much wood as I do, just making shavings lol
Whether I would hand-thickness (using a foreplane) really had a lot to do with what wood I'm using. Pine? Sure, no problem. Ash, oak, etc.? No thanks. Into the thickness planer or buy s2s.
I got real lucky and got a scrub on an auction for 7 dollars!
I agree, the older I get I tend to go for the s4s or s2s. But the workout does help me keep in shape. Thanks James good video, as always!
A beat up tool with a big mouth? I’m a scrub plane! 😅
CDB
Haha Honing your skills.. as you hone a plane iron 😁😁
Need s cap for my #6 Stanley fore plane, was my main user til I used the cap for my 5 1/2 and still wasn't a scrub...
You are not joking in this video.
I've always thought that a scrub plane is to a bench plane as a draw knife is to a spokeshave. Maybe that's just me.
Pretty much.
I got a cheap plane, replicating the dimensions of a number 3, but so badply manufactured that it wouldn't work. Period. I removed the adjustment, put a big screw over the lever cap, and ground the bevel to use it as a scrub plane. I adjust it with a hammer. At leat the iron is properly hardened.
Great video. I never knew the exact difference between this 2 planes.
Can you use the scrub plane if the wood has knots?
Yes. Sometimes you won't set it to go quite as deep as you would but for most knots it will still cut through it.
Rocket? Is this a woodworking channel or an aerospace channel? 😂
Cross grain down below 😋
Rock it, baby.
Hi James, nice video. I have a question. I recently received a wooden plane that has a handle in the front and the back. It also has a steel iron (blade) serrated teeth. I'm not sure how it is to be used, but after seeing your video, I think it might be a scrubbing plane. If you have one like it, it would be nice to see a video on it. Thanks again for your nice videos. 😊
That sounds like a toothing iron in a eastern European plane. If you email me pictures I can take a look.
@WoodByWrightHowTo OK, will do.
So then the plane you finish with is an Aft-plane?
Well-scrubbed comment down below.
One day, I'll live somewhere with enough space to have my own wee workshop. Until then, I'll watch you in envy! Quick question: Have you had any formal training, or are you pretty much self-taught?
I was raised in the wood shop with my dad. been doing it in one way or another for almost 35 years now. I have takes several classes over the years on specific topics. but I never went to a specific school for a full program. there are not many of those in the US.
@WoodByWrightHowTo that's brilliant, sir! You can see the years of experience in the work you do.
I scrubbed up this comment before I thought about it
That small scrub plane looks remarkably like my Stanley 5-1/4. It's certainly skinny like the 5-1/4. Hmmm ...
That's probably the closest size in bench planes. It's a little thinner than the five and a quarter and a little bit shorter in length.
An old No 3 will do the job as a scrub too.
You can turn just about any plane you want to into a scrub plane.
It's the difference in a five and a fore.
My scrub is 4-1/2, with a larger camber than yours. My fore is a 6.
I curios what are your thoughts on the LAJ with a course toothed blade? Could I get away with getting another blade?
the toothing blade is not as good for hoging off material, but you can not get much of a camber for a LAJ. that is why most people that prefer a LAJ end up getting a junk standard plane and turn it into a scrub.
Fore scrub and seven boards ago
How is it that most (perhaps all) of the planes you are obsessed with, were designed and built long before you were, yet you have more information than the engineers who designed them? How much time do you spend researching this stuff? I have even researched a few of the odd terms you use and You are never wrong.. With all the video's you put out, How do you have any time to actually build things??
Thanks. But I have been woodworking for about 35 years now. Lots comes over time, and I love learning new things every day
@@WoodByWrightHowTo You sound as if all the knowledge just comes with using a tool.. It doesn't. I started at my first furniture company in the mid 70's. I never even saw a hand plane in any of the shops I worked at. We learned about them in school but rarely used them because we has electricity. It was fairly recently that I owned one.. Oddly, I bought a bunch of vintage tools to build rustic log furtinure and you use yours to do precision work.. Say what you want but the amount of intricate information you have didn't just fall in your lap. People learn about and use a hand plane because WANT to, not because it's the only way to do things..
Right on! you have to love to learn and be willing to do some research.
How do I read the wood to know I'm going with or against the grain?
here is a short on the topic: czcams.com/video/kCJ_u8qpsFg/video.html
Comment down below
Shouldn’t you have explained that the fore-plane comes before the fun part BEFORE Valentine’s Day?
Yes, a very fun video to watch, as always. But I have not understood what the advantage of a scrub plane is. I saw you violently destroying a peace of rough sawn wood with the scrub plane, I did not see it improving for more refined use. Seeing the poor piece of wood that was left, I kind of missed the reason why you think this scrub plane is so important to use on rough sawn wood.
Often especially with Russ on wood you have large twists in the wood and it requires you to take off a quarter inch or more from one spot or another. If you do that with a regular hand playing it takes a long time to get through it. If you take off the majority of the material with a scrub plane then you can come back with a regular hand plane and smooth it out and it takes a fraction of the time as if you just did it with the regular plane. The scrub plane is for removing a lot of material very quickly.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Ah! I think I get the point now. I saw you scrub planing the entire surface, but in practice you only scrub the parts with large twists, knots or other compactions. Then you can plane the whole surface more easily, right? Thank you for your explanation.
correct. you just use it when you have to take off a lot of material.
It should be a ‘Fore Plane .
Below
Comment down below.
I want to turn an old #4 into a scrub plane. I seem to remember you saying in a video years ago to draw a 6 or 8" radius circle on the blade to get the correct camber. Was that you? or was I cheating on you with another (inferior) woodworker on CZcams?
Yes. Usually I like the tip to be about 1/16-1/8" out past the sides of the curve.
Just a normal plane comment
Commento abajo!
My first comment down below
Comment down below.
Love? Er, well, I like your videos and your on-screen personality a lot, but dude, love? I’m so sorry, but I don’t know you well enough yet. 😂
Paul Sellers has an excellent video on converting a 78 into a scrub plane also. And those are pretty plentiful too. I got one cheap as it has the blade no fences. It’s pretty comfy too. Another alternative Incase you get one on the cheap
Comment down below, because I'm one of those people.
Comment
comment down belooooow
I was going to say something witty, but I had to scrub it 🙄🙄
Moo
I used to have a no 6, but I later found an electric plane like Makita product better results
Down
No, no, thank you!
I had a #4 'scrub' plane. Then I dropped a #78 and broke the fence so I copied PS and turned it from rubbish to scrubbish. A super-scooper.
Stumpy nubs made a video recently about turning a normal plan to a scrub plane in order to avoid sanding.
Giraffes are 30 times more likely to get hit by lightning than people.
whaaaaaa.... cringy closing joke? you're getting too old and serious for me :D
Thanks
Comment down below