What ALL GREAT Composers Had in Common
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- What I learned after studying HUNDREDS of scores! This trait that is shared amongst the greatest composers...will help you appreciate the genius behind these composers' music and also level up your performances!
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As always, thank you so much for watching, and thank you to all of you that leave comments. - Hudba
i had a very good composing teacher who said that making great sounding music wasnt as hard as one may think. creating great sounding passages as those illustrated here is not as challenging as finding the right place for them. so its not about how the music sounds but rather about the narrative, the form of the whole. what all great composers had in common was their ability to put the structure of the piece to the service of the music
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YEEEEES!!! Absolutely agree! Thats why I always disagree when my fellow composer-friends or anyone tells me thats its only about harmony.
The form, orchestration, develompent, motiffic work... these are the true tools for writing great music ! Not only the harmony, altough its not less important.
This is a crucial point. Obviously you must know counterpoint, harmony, invention, and all that; but without being able to actually "compose" it all into an effective whole, you get little more than an interesting comp exercise. Yet, once you can grasp the long-range form and the "story" to be "told", then you will "form" something that will "speak" to people.
The same goes for performance as well. Sometimes a passage has to be played less-beautifully, so that the piece as a whole can be more beautiful in its total effect.
Profoundly true.
Thanks to a much older brother, I have listened to this music for 65 years and Nahre Sol is an absolute genus. Her videos are utterly revelatory. I am so grateful to your presence on youtube.
Thank you so much…! ☺️🙏🏻
Thanks to me you will come even a bit closer to heaven :-)
@@NahreSol yooo Nahre I would love to meet you one day! You’re my favorite pianist!!
Idk about a genus, maybe a species. Hard to say.
@@hoosas5998 genus and species for the sake of precision. Let's add genius for the sake of accurate description.
Your channel is like music appreciation for musicians. Thank you Nahre.
Thank YOU!!
Very well put! It's great to hear someone who does so much research explain their findings in the language of a practicing musician instead of a traditional researcher. The metaphoric or synaesthetic vocabulary may not be the most accessible approach for non-musicians, I guess, but for musicians this channel feels, like said above, highly appreciative. Please keep it this way.
I would have to agree with @Eric Gross. She is a genius. I've learned more from her videos and garnered a deeper understanding of musical style, history and theory than all my college courses. I've taught music for 28 years now. Thanks, Nahre Sol, and keep up the good work.
So nice! I like how you point out that any little change to a great piece will likely just kinda ruin it. I feel like composing your best piece is like building a house of cards. Care and delicacy for the emotional story 💯 or it’ll collapse to a flat stack.
Thanks Cuckoo!! I agree - “building a house of cards” is a great way of putting it…!! ☺️
I find Brahms does this so well. His recapitulations are achingly touching, because of that care for the emotional story you're talking about.
Actually I think that’s kind of the brilliance of jazz-endless variations (that work) in realtime on a theme. You could argue that the same logic applies for the original composition, but the interpretation of the composition is at least as important as the original in this case..finding out just how many related stacks of cards you can make from that particular deck, if you want to say.
The description of Bach''s style at 8:01 is one of the most interesting insights in music I have ever heard.
I would love for you to do a video going over the music of Camille Saint-Seans. His piano works especially, mazurkas, waltzs, op 72 etc, it's all incredibly complex and scattered, yet very simple ingredients how you describe, and it comes together like a Michelin star meal!
You’re right, I haven’t covered Saint-Saëns yet 😅 I really love some of his pieces!
@@NahreSol He's very difficult to play 😭 I love and hate him mostly love.
@@none5020 he was also an alleged pedophile so yano.
@@NahreSol OMG.....Check out Respighi's musical genius.
@@_rstcm Respighi doesn't get enough love and respect. Dude was really, really good and his music still resonates today.
I have often felt that great music and great literature are the same, in how they are intricately build worlds subject to an endless exploration. A great story always feels right; you don't feel like changing a single word, let alone a scene. Your analysis reminded me of that idea. Thanks for the great work as always Ms. Sol. Looking forward to more insights like these.
Awesome, thank you! Here are my takeaways:
• Having EMOTIONS as a PRIMARY FOCUS
• Paying ATTENTION TO how each technical DETAIL can AFFECT these emotions
• Not hesitating to USE BASIC ELEMENTS (with purpose, these basic elements will convey unique emotions).
Those are great reminders, especially when we lose track of them due to a lack of inspiration.
i think this video is also a great example of how important sheet music is. sheet musc standards allows for nearly every intricacy to be communicated even to someone who has never heard the piece before. without even just a few missing notations, lots of this crystallization can be lost in translation.
You are articulating the gestalt of a musical piece. The very fact of our humanity, and hence our unique nervous system, lends attack, hesitation, and strength changes, as well as an interpretive signature to whatever we play. This is the reason I have intolerance for music that has “fixed” all of the “mistakes” in pitch and time. Happy holidays, Nahre ❤🙏
I’ve literally had composition lessons going over these exact topics. Your ability to combine performance techniques with composition techniques is truly brilliant and would revolutionize music schools.
This makes me think that there is less of a gulf between us improvisors and composers overall! I had always thought that composing was more of an intentional matter of taking theoretical elements of music and using them to "paint a picture" with a known palette of theory and technique. It seems that the idea of "just letting it flow" applies to both!
Thank you for this comment!! This is seriously such a great point to consider 🙏🏻
A weird thing about improvising into an audio recorder, with the intent to listen back later and keep the better stuff... I started to hear instances of "oh wait, that should be like THIS" moments, where I'd be in the middle of a jam and play something almost good, and then immediately afterwards a better version of that same phrase, and then continue with the rest of the jam. IOW, while I was playing, subconsciously I'd set it up so I could go back and edit out the bad phrase. And the timing and cuts almost always worked out perfectly, if done in the moment like that.
I think that developed because previously, I had to go back later and punch in, and all my excessive little micro-timings would be different, and it was so obvious it was edited. The weird thing is that it was a subconscious development. I'm not quick or observant enough to notice a poorly played but good phrase, and fix it, consciously, well enough so that the edit will work later.
Therefore, if other people are like that, then your realest and best music is probably improvised... And with our audio and MIDI recording tools (even just onboard digital pianos) it makes sense to build compositions around improvisations, even for people who consider themselves to be composers first. Not if it's a procedural compositional method etc, but if you're conveying emotions? Of course! Improv is the most direct way to get emotions out musically, so... yeah.
@@GizzyDillespeean online jazz teacher said many classical composers actually improvised like jazz musicians, even in performances. I thought was so cool
In theatre dance we talk about "finding the breath" of a choreography. It's pretty much the same concept. And you can hyperhanalyse it into constituent parts (accents, dynamics, single notes/movements etc) or keep the focus on the general intention, but breath (influencing both your psychological and physical states) ties it all together. However, more than one kind of breath might work for a piece (see Bernstein on Gould's interpretation, and yet it moves).
As an offshoot, towards another musical world, but from this perspective, check out how Victor Wooten talks about music.
Nahre, you do this a lot better than Leonard Bernstein in his TV lectures on music, over 50 years ago, IIRC. Constant smile on my face. Thank you.
I totally agree with the others calling Nahre Sol a genius! The feeling that is created by certain works of music by certain composers is a familiar but abstract concept, which she's somehow articulated in a concrete way that makes so much sense. I've been watching her videos for years now and I have to say that this is my favourite channel on CZcams :)
this video is genius, this is probably what separates a great musician from a good musician. Super informative and affects how I think about music and practising. I always imagine how it would be like if I have a professor like you when I was an undergraduate🙇🏿♂️🙇🏿♂️🙇🏿♂️
Exactly right Ms Sol. All compositional decisions need to be guided by a very clear emotional intention directing the musical storytelling and every detail of rhythm, melody, harmony, texture, colour etc. Without emotional clarity there can be no musical clarity or consistency in either composition or interpretation. Musicians young and old need to hear this every day! Thank you for your wonderful work. I love your pianistic skills and the workings of your creative and analytical musical mind.
Like Hans Zimmer said in one of his interviews, don't just write music but tell a story. And I think that's the genius in all the music. Each one has a unique story to tell, using their own "voice " and vulnerability they expose themselves through their music. Holding to their own, each one of them made a "language" so unique to them and us, as their listeners, recognize their sound very distinctively.I think these "voices" are lost or silenced now because of too many standards the are imposed where in fact, these standards are just merely uniqueness.
Ngl, I actually hate music that "tells a story".
@@SkyCloudSilence all music "tells a story".. So what do you mean?
@@SkyCloudSilence that’s fair, although imo every composer would like to tell a story with their music. And even though i think most people miss it when it comes to music without lyrics, most of them also end up, like you said, projecting their own stories into the music, just like we do with every piece of art. But i do understand your point, I just believe that all composers do tell a story with their compositions because that’s what makes a composer great aside than many other abilities. But then again, this is just what i think personally and there is no evidence to prove my point, and I think this discussion can end with us realizing that almost everything about music is subjective, to me, a music might have a story, to you, it might not, who is right in that case? No one, because there is no right or wrong when it comes to music.. Thank you for this lovely discussion!
@@mel4340 Yea, for sure! 👍
You have crystalized a very important point that most musicians recognize but had no words. Beautiful efficiency.
Yes, please! I would love for you to explore this topic deeper! I agree with you on the importance of conveying a particular emotion with music. It's a tricky thing to explain, so I think these types of videos are SUPER valuable
I love this channel! I'm not that much of a musician but I do love the piano, and you breaking down the complexity of learning about the technical aspects of music is so interesting and captures my short attention span unlike any book of lecture would do. Thank you so much! I actually think I'm learning something! You're awesome!
Nahre. You are a wonderful human being. Thank you for caring about us and sharing your knowledge and excitement about music.
This is such a valuable video Nahre. It just got better with every section. Bravo!!🎉👏
Dear Nahre, I am so grateful for you! ☺ You have a gift for conveying knowledge in a wonderfully warm and appealing manner. I am a professional pianist and, without fail, learn from your presentations; yet, they are just as accessible and enjoyable to amateur music lovers, young and old, of all levels. Kudos! Keep up the fine work! 👍
Love your channel! As a composer this is exactly what we strive to do and is so difficult to achieve. You described and illustrated it so well.
I love how you answered this question. I want to know more about how you define and see crystallization in music, and why you find it useful even though it is mysterious and kind of abstract to me.
keep up the incredible work!
Memorable & thoughtful content as always!
Truer words have never been said about crystalization being an art and not a science which is why it's beauty varies from composer to composer and reaveals why everything Nahre creates doesn't sounds like any other.
You are such a talent Nahre. Some of your videos have complexity beyond my comprehension, but this one really hit the mark with me. It was so interesting, entertaining and informative. You have been blessed with a natural talent not only in your piano playing abilities, but in your way that you communicate at all levels. I was blown away by the way you Changed up pieces of music to communicate your message. These videos must take a lot of time and effort. Thank you for sharing!
Always enjoying, and always joyful. Thank you from the heart.
First time listener-your approach is professional, informative and entertaining. Thanks
Me encanta la forma en la que expresas lo que piensas, y lo reafirmas al momento de tocar. Gracias Maestra.
You open that poetic emotion space I never experienced in music. I'm so grateful find your channel !! 👍
For me great music not only conveys emotions but the more you listen to it, the more you like it. Great music grows on you, it's not the most accessible.
Love your teaching style, thank you so much
The insights you offer astound me every time.
Thank you so much for these wonderful videos!
I simply love your videos. Even as just a hobbyist pianist, this inspires me so much that I wish I could make my thoughts fly into a score and smash the pentagram with at least half of your understading of music and it's depth. It is out of the box, and I thank you infinitely for sharing it.
You are a gift. I'm just in awe of someone expressing these thoughts I unconsciously felt but did not have the expertise or experience to express. It's an honour to learn from someone as capable and enthusiastic as you. I'm in awe of how on point you are, and how I can get access to all this crystallised knowledge for free. I'm a professional writer actually, so I felt honoured when you compared the magic of music with that of poetry and stories. 💛 Stay blessed. I love your teaching! 💖
To your point about interpretation: I have recently realized that the greatest gift we musicians acquire is Sensibility. This gift, as you say is an art rather than a science, we can only get through years of immersing ourselves in music and more than allowing us to perform better, I think it also makes just the act of listening to music more enjoyable too. Should I ever lose the ability to play my instrument, I will still have my musical sensibility.
I really enjoyed your very thoughtful analysis of the music of such great composers. I would love to see more of this, even though my knowledge of music theory is barely above beginner level. You are a great pianist.
You are insanely talented ! Your videos are so exciting.
You always get to the essence of things and every point is made concisely and clearly. I would love to hear you explore Bartok and the influence of Hungarian folk elements in his music. I also loved your exploration of flamenco. It was one of your best clips although it’s impossible to pick a favourite.
Thankyou for your inspirational work.
very well done girl !! the way you characterize those magic moments are GREAT !!congrats !! please do more
This video truly opened my eyes! I felt that I already knew a lot about interpretation in music but I've never thought of playing a piece with a slight alteration which even more shows the beauty of it. Thank you, this is really valuable :)))
Definitely made me look back on my compositions - thanks much Nahre!!
I really found this episode to be extremely rewarding and insightful. I’ve certainly liked the way you put this topic together so cleanly and balanced. This will definitely become a factor in how I approach learning and performing my music studies.
Thank you, I really needed this!
I really enjoyed this video-keep them coming. Thank you.
Thanks for being so geniune! love the perspectives and its always nice to learn! appreciate ya!
this video opened new horizons for me, please keep up with these! good work
I would very much enjoy more videos like this. I particularly enjoyed the final point you made, about the importance of purpose in driving the gelling of elements during composition - it helps me understand why I completed the two pieces that I have seen through and why I've abandoned so many others that I have started!
Nahre you are one of my prime inspirations as a autodidact in music. I learn a lot of theory, but your view of music helps me learn to use the heart tovturn it from theory robot to actual music. Thank you
I love this video, Nahre! Please tell us more about this topic! 🤩
Great video. I would love a video where you interview pianists about what they are thinking in the moments before they perform, both before going on stage and the moments before they begin a piece. I often see pianists pause before starting a piece and wonder what they might be thinking, whether something technical about the piece or a thought that gets them in the right emotional mindset.
Delightful video! I love the way you explain your perspective & I appreciate the information you provide! Would love more like this!!
You are doing absolutely wonderful work, teaching us all in multiple enjoyable and articulate ways. Sometimes as i watch I am struck by the artistic/musical composition of the video itself.
I think everything you said resonates with me, in terms of the idea of crystallization. That said, I do feel that we tend to put composers and musical pieces on a pillar, in that of course a particular piece by Bach or Mozart or Beethoven couldn't be written any other way and still be as good, and therefore they almost end up defining the concept of crystallization in a way that I feel isn't necessarily that useful aside from reinforcing the pillars that they're on. And while I do agree the modifications you made to those passages "break" the overall feel, I think we're also so familiar with them and the associations we've already made that it's hard to imagine a change that wouldn't be jarring, and thus it sort of only serves to paint that music as being compositionally "perfect". Perhaps I'm more interested in crystallization from the point of view of Beethoven going through a couple lousy drafts of a passage and approaching the crystalline ideal rather than defining crystallization through the final product that we all inherently accept as a finished work. I think a more useful exploration of the concept of crystallization would be to take two pieces of a particular composer and compare their relative effectiveness, why one is perhaps more successfully crystalized than another, thereby reducing the gods versus mortals aspect of analyzing music. Of course, publicly critiquing music can be a minefield, so I understand if there's hesitation, but hopefully you understand where I'm coming from in terms of wanting to dive deeper into your concept.
I think your point brings necessary notice to romanticizing a given piece. Sure, they are great as they are known, but behind doors, under the ink and pen, where they pruned and polished as it took form, or was a perfect one-off as we are oft to believe? I incline for the former, especially when you consider these composers wrote literarly hundreds and hundreds of pieces, yet their most well known pieces are probably in the dozens. I am in awe to many of these greats, but it is important to recognize that behind master pieces there were also many student works and discarded drafts. Genius is nourished, not pulled from a crystal ball.
Weirdly I had the SAME reaction as @Eric C and @__ posts ~ (went away for a day - thought / "Thunk" about it for a bit ) THEN watched the video a second time and NOW I kinda lean in on @Nahre Sol 's beginnings of a "Thesis" a focal theory*.
Honestly what these "Greats" (as such) had was this core need to take (for their respective times) pretty gigantic leaps and (most importantly) near massive RISKS and yet at the same time make the listener feel included and important; from personal human resonances to the near EPIC - from personal internal reflections and partcular facets of the human psyche seemingly scaled up to monumental truths. In this respect the listener is made to feel important and included in spite of works wrought by some of the most awkward, difficult, pig headed and cantankerous people that any contemporary would ever be likely to meet. "They" - literally could not help themselves but BE who they are in spite of the "Norms" of their own respective times - hence the challenging and groundbreaking nature of their most significant works. Beethoven's 9th being a great example of a very MUCH beloved total trainwreck.
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* However I suspect the need for the illusion of immediacy probably comes from the fact they ALL had excellent teachers, C.P.E Bach, "Papa" Hyden, etc. AND hand in hand having the need to also TEACH for a living really forces one to figure out what IS important to communicate, given that time is always limited. Teaching / coaching forces one to constantly seek out ever more impactful and efficient ways to get the point across ~ unlike this post.
** Interesting parallel is Miles Davis' take Autumn Leaves with an introduction that pulls out a very particular sensibility and set of human facets in a very brave new way - not unlike the cited piece of Mozart (as above Nahre's Vid ).
czcams.com/video/tguu4m38U78/video.html
^^^ If you don't know it definitely check it out :-)
I was thankful that Nahre had the wit and skill not to trash the jazz standard Autumn Leaves (Kak-handedly) to prove her point😂
Idolisation is tiresome as it's not about the music but about the ego of the listener.
Fascinating, thank you for Diving Deep!
your ability to put across ideas with the visualisations is so good, thanks for your videos. They always makes me want to play piano, I am self taught and never took it seriously but I am naturally skilled with music
Beautiful touch and excellent point.
Your videos are really inspiring to me. Thanks.
I love your videos, especially when you dissect aspects of the music like you did here. It’s like a lesson without a lesson.
Excellent video, thanks. Very useful analysis, very engagingly presented. You are a great communicator about music.
You are só comfortable tô listen to..the information is a gentle surprise and helpful. You choose select áreas that
Generally are missed or dismissed. Frankly it is a lovely treat tô receive your generous sharing. Thank you
Really enlightening session. Thanks for helping me get deeper into the subtleties of what makes some music so great...
Nahre, you are the best on youtube!!! Your videos are all about the psychology of music, which is the most important and unexplored topic.
So cool to show examples where you modify one element at a time, it makes things so clear!
Hell, yes! Let's dig deeper! Your videos are always amazing. So interesting. I (a musician) watch them often with my wife (a music afficionada - listens to music with the score in her lap, for instance). Your videos are accessible and totally enjoyable to both of us.
Brilliant! Love your work!
Composition is a lot of decisions made, and combination is the right word to explain those decisions derived.
Thank you for your lessons!! You are a very good teacher.
You have a lot of style and qualities that endear us to the music. Very talented communicator
Genius. I’m loving this. Thanks
Thanks Nahre, this is a great observation, and helped me see the importance of rhythm and feel in bringing together a great musical idea, or at least in developing a personal musical style. Happy holidays!
I really enjoyed these insights and how well it was all demonstrated. Thank you
Thank you Nahre, for yet another amazing video! Also, I'm so happy for you regarding the Henle sponsorship for this video. Henle is the best!!!
Very astute observations Nahre - interesting & thought provoking. I really appreciate your videos. They are a breath of fresh air! Thanks.
great, simply great. you make so easy to love, understand and follow the greatest of all times
Awesome video Nahre! Love the little graphic effects and sketches you make too
Thanks for this vid. Enjoyed it.
Brilliant! Thanks a lot for your hard work and insights, Nahre! Yours videos are always eye-opening! If you can, please dig deeper into the “art” aspect of composition that you mentioned in this video. I think all good composers are like method actors but for music. They can feel the emotions of their subjects/characters (which are often themselves) and through the mastery of their craft they are all able to convey the same feelings (and/or tell the story) to their audience.
I agree completely that the whole communicative effect of great music cannot be broken down into analyzable elements. But, that said, there's more to the Beethoven passage than meets the eye. I found this descending scale (actually scale+1) difficult to memorize until I realized that each time the 8-note pattern is repeated over the 9 eighth notes which constitute 3 beats in a 12/8 measure, it outlines a new octave which descends in a beautiful and ominous hemiola from Fflat->Eflat->Dflat->Cflat over 3 bars, leaving the whole of the last bar of the phrase to an inevitable Bflat...Eflat/Aflat! That's, in my opinion, why the pattern works perfectly this way and not at all any other way. In general, I think that a consensus is slowly (too slowly!) being arrived at that those of us from a classical music background were taught to study pitch and harmony much more than rhythm, to the detriment of our understanding. The great composers were more sophisticated and powerful in their use of rhythmic structures than the lesser lights were, and some of these differences can be specified if we look for them. By the way, this applies just as well to your Mozart example...
I think you are into something. I would love to see more on this topic. It feels like a continueum of your previous videos and I like it!
I luv luv luv the Appassionata, and appreciate your insights. I hope there is a part 2.
What a great video. Please continue the study and videos on performance of music
I love your videos so much! Always so engaging and interesting and of course nice on the ears.
The crystallization is a great point. The comp prof I had would say, "Compose something everyday"- he wanted us to get into the a pattern of crafting a work. That then put the reason the orchestra director would correct people, "don't call it a "piece", it is a work of music". Like a gem cutter, a composer will pull the music from what other wise would be unorganized noised. And then we learned to enjoy unorganized noise too! Love it al!
It's great to see a pianist who is truly a musician, I've come to see music as a living person, a woman with moods, hard to understand, but truly worth getting to know well... thank you for your work in this field...
Please dig deeper into that! It was very insightful! It was a new concept for me also. Thank you for this.
This was really great! Thanks!
Brilliant brilliant brilliant! I loved the volcano reference, and you really helped me attune my ears to being aware of how these ingredients all come together. And that's not even to mention your skill, not only at playing and lyrical interpretation, but at articulating the entire concept so well. Simply marvelous. Thank you so much for this video, God bless 🙏🏻❤️
it would be wonderful to hear more about that topic! I am in for a second part
Wonderfully insightful video - as always. 👏🏻👏🏻
your videos are the epitome of great videos idk what else to say really :)
also you make really good analogies 🤔
Thanks, Nahre. I really enjoy your posts. I play mostly Hawaiian music and jazz guitar. Your concepts have equal weight in all styles of music. The idea of timing, chord choices, and dynamics can change the feeling and meaning of songs/tunes. Thanks for your curiosity and playful explanations. Very thought-provoking.
Fascinating breakdown!
Superb presentation, thanks. It's so refreshing to have a discussion about "what makes music..." that stays away from the meaningless cliches, but rather, engages the subject with authentic, thought-provoking curiosity and first-rate creative intelligence.
This was great! Inspiring and thought evoking. Thank you for that :)
Love how you explain all of this...
What a beautiful show. I didn't understand half of it, I still had Goosebumps. Thank you.