The REAL Reason Game Devs Burn Out
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Every game developer struggles with burnout, and in this video we look at the strategies 3 successful game developers used to avoid it to help you deal with game dev burnout.
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I can't believe I didn't say this in the video, but make sure you give your favorite creators the time they need and not give them negative pressure :) Also I wasn't sure how to fit this in the video, but I wanted to say that most people feel that the kind of schedule ThinMatrix uses is unrealistic for them because they need to use every spare minute they have. This is why I urge people to try making small games first so that you don't need to spend every last second on game dev!
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It's just too much work to do by yourself, and you are surrounded by other similar devs and projects that are just flat out better than yours. So you wonder what the point even is.
Yeah, it's a tough gig. This is why releasing small games is so important - you build real, good games, and you build up that confidence grounded in genuine experience.
Think of it like art. Just do it to do it for personal reasons. If you see something similar to yours, make changes to make it different. I've been pulling ideas for characters and plots based on my own city and local people, but I haven't been concerned over trying to invent a whole new game genre or mechanics.
this is really high quality and pulled off well, very helpful and just wow it is very different to the other stuff I see by people like this. I hope this video blows up
Thank you very much :D
Learn how to finish a project is something really important too. I can recommend to just join some online game jams and try to make a fun little prototype in the given time. It will not only teach you how to manage the scope of your project so you can actually finish it, but also that you don't have to polish everything to perfection.
If you haven't finished a few little projects first, don't even think about working on your dream game.
I'm also still in the process of learning. Hope this helps anbody out there.
100% I tried to imply that as part of the Dani section at the end. I talk a bit more about game jam type games in the previous video :)
We're taking an approach to rapid fire three small-scope games to understand how to work as a team, get our workflows down, and adjust expectations before we launch into a major project, and we're having a blast. I would encourage all other developers to do the same. Don't care so much about it, just make a few games and put them out there. Then worry about a larger project.
That is an awesome approach!
Excellent video and very important points, especially about finishing a game is like climbing a mountain that gets steeper and steeper. So true. Wish you all the best with your game and your channel. Subscribed! :)
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed.
Hello there, I just watched your couple of videos and they are pretty good for me who is started learning how to make games. I want to thank you deeply to put lots of effort to your videos. I'm currently learning Unity from(Code monkey Beginner-Intermediate course) and you gave me lots of information I need as take action not only watch tutorials. Also, I checked your pdf(Indie Game Dev Starter Guide) and gives a mindset and marketing that which is pretty cruicial I think especially mindset we should have. I just wanted to thank you and as you said after finished tutorial I'll make small games that set up my code structure much better and yeah be safe!
Thank you!! I'm really glad to hear that :D best of luck.
"Game Dev isn't a sprint or even a marathon, it's a mountain climb" YES!
Great video! I love the mountain metaphor - I think it's so important for us creators to remember that challenges will always be there no matter what, but it's the approach and mindset that makes all the difference.
Thank you! Glad you liked it, and yes for sure, and I think having precise/concrete strategies are key to achieving that.
I'm just an Unreal Engine 'hobbyist', but I think one of the issues indie game devs have is they have these lofty goals of being legit game developers that release full, complete games. I think these people put a lot of pressure and expectations on themselves that are not healthy in the long term. I don't think you should have a mindset like: "I'm gonna be a game developer and make some games." I think a healthier mindset is simply: "I'm gonna learn to use Unreal Engine/Unity/Gadot and just fuck around and have fun."
Just mess around and have fun. No pressure. No expectations. Just HAVE FUN. And maybe, someday, a game might come to fruition. But until then, just relax. Don't force it. Don't think about making a full, complete game. Just mess around with the game engine and have fun.
Maybe, but I think that can also lead to that 2nd type of burnout I talked about where your project gets out of control. But if you have the hobbyist approach, you can ultimately do whatever you enjoy. I generally encourage people to have a goal in mind for every project they make, and aim to finish that project, because I believe that you learn a lot more by finishing and releasing games, no matter how small, than just messing around indefinitely. That way, you still have the low-pressure mindset, but you're also making real games.
This is a bad approach if youre planning to become a full time game developer whos primary income will be the games they make
Yup, exactly.
Excellent video. I’ve been trying to work around burnout cycles, but I really like your mountain climbing metaphor
Thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful.
Beautifully edited video!
I disagree that "steady pace" is what keeps you going. What keeps you going is: answering your needs. Those needs change and often involve other responsibilities, health or things outside of your control. What ThinMatrix *doesn't* show us is the weeks where he books himself time away from gamedev. It looks like a steady pace but it's not. Additionally, I've known devs (non-gamedev but close enough to be appropriate) that work in sprint-then-rest and *never burnout*. They understand their needs, their neurotype and when/how they work best and then do that. One had 5 kids under the age of 12 and he worked best at terrifying speed at 3am. At that time in his life, he took his situation, understood his needs and worked when it fitted him. There was nothing steady about his pace.
Phrasing it simply as "keep a steady pace" is harmful to those who cannot do that for whatever reason. It sounds like a simple solution and stands to common sense but isn't a solution for all.
I'd avoid using Dani as an example for anything. He's very familiar to your viewers but as you point out, he's a strange exception! We don't know if Karlsson was Dani's dream game.
It's fair to say that there is great value in releasing a game but to do that you must polish more than overscope. That's what Jonas did with Thronefall but arguably he did that with Will You Snail and it wasn't the hit Thronefall was. There's a lot of luck involved but you don't want to put that in a video because it's not something that's repeatable.
Really enjoyed your video; as much as I disagree with a lot of it!
I appreciate that! I totally see your point, I guess a lot of the time it's different for different people. I think Dani is a useful example to create an analogy. I think the main difference about Will You Snail is that it was a massively overscoped game which Jonas seems to have often admitted in his devlogs, so I truly believe making small games first is the solution.
Agree a lot with answering your needs and looking after your health, knowing your neuro-type
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative yeah, fair point. Keep up the great content!
I agree, especially if you have adhd (like me) then working at a steady consistent pace just doesn’t work. Sometimes you need long breaks from your projects, even if it ends up being a few weeks . I love making games but it’s hard work and I need breaks from even thinking bout it.
Great video as always!
Thanks very much! :D Glad you liked it!
Amazing as always 😃
Thanks man!
Thank you for reminding that. Even though You know it, sometimes progress blinds you.
For sure! Yeah, it's easy to forget sometimes.
yea this is accurate, the little things create a world of excitement but its very easy to get lost once the ball really starts rolling
Yup!
Dobre wideo andrzej
Dziekuje bardzo :D
For years now I haven't even touched GameDev, and been just thinking about it. I tried focusing on my degree, but it only brought me pain, and I couldn't even finish college because of my depression and social anxiety. I couldn't get myself to start working on my projects at all, because it would make me realise that I fell behind everyone. Even now it somehow pains me to return, or even watch videos about the topic, because there's always that voice in the back of my head saying that I should have been a part of it for years.
I know I'm not totally out of the dark, but now I am much more aware of my mental status and limitations. I will do everything I can to finally become the developer I have always dreamt of being, even though I'm very afraid of the future.
Why am I writing about this? I have no idea. But it helps with making this video more popular, and it made me more hopeful, so if I can help others feel the same way it's as good of a reason as any.
Thank you for sharing :) I appreciate wanting to boost the video too. I wish you all the best, make sure you take it easy :) I know the feeling, maybe not to that extent, but well enough to know how tough it can get.
Be careful with burnout. I tried so hard to the point where my body aches constantly, I lie down all day, sitting/walking is difficult. Visited a therapist and a psychiatrist, and yeah I also got diagnosed with depression, but ultimately my depression came from feeling exhausted and being unable to do anything. Otherwise, I have no negative thought patterns or don't really feel sad. Just the constant pressure I put on myself. I am now planning to visit a neurologist and I think that will be way more helpful. Pretty sure overloading my nervous system for years damaged it and it needs to be treated. Avoid intense experiences like too much music, coffee, working out too much, overthinking and stuff if you don't want to end up like this. And don't work 10-12 hours a day. I am now trying to make a mindset shift to prioritize creativity and appealing to me stuff with no regard for the scale/quality/complexity. Growth is no longer a priority at this point, it's secondary. I just want to enjoy making stuff I find cool, instead of focusing on skills all the time
Sir i am working on my own first game and i want to make a big house. Should i use blender or unity pro builder and which types of assest should i make my self and what should i steal from internet ❤
Blender is better for assets like that :) Remember 3D modelling is a whole skill to learn so, if you want to make your own 3D assets spend a few weeks learning and improving in Blender.
I have been the last month and a half learning to create video games on my free time. I love what I'm doing and have had no trouble so far finding motivation to continue.
I am having quite a bit of trouble creating art for my current project though. Everything that I draw myself ends up looking a lot like child art or flat usually a combination of both I would go with 3D models God knows that there's plenty of royalty free ones that I can use but my computer can't handle engines like Unity or unreal so I'm kind of forced to use Game Maker Studio which isn't bad on its own just challenging
Hey first of all, that's awesome that you have the motivation right now! It's a scarce resource :) As long as you're doing the "mountain climber" thing and not "sprinting" with it - since you've learned a ton about game dev, maybe the way to go would be to devote the same amount of time learning art, if that's what you want to do? Look up stuff like "learn pixel art easily" and color theory (flow studio has great videos about that).
can you make a video about how to combine game dev and youtube? I'm really into how to make a devlog for a game, the process always takes me 2 months at least for just 1 video...😥
Ah, that's tough :( I mean looking my upload schedule, each video I put out takes me more than a month. CZcams and Game Dev together are not easy. I'll see if I can, there might be an opportunity for it, but, it won't be for a while. My Dani video from last year talks about the youtube strategy a bit, so you might find that useful.
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative I guess it is what it is! 😅, just gotta stick with it. Thanks!
Sir i have a question i am 15 years old student should i learn unity or any other game engine and also learning only game dev worth it ? Because i am also learning web development and python as an alternate.plz reply ❤❤
I would say Godot or Unity. Learn whatever interests you, try things out :)
What if every video game in existence was always super short and easy? About 20-minutes long to beat? Without any post-games or sidequests. Had the laws made studios to make games that way. How'd the games, the industry, and their qualities have been like? How well would developers have been healthwise? Imagine growing up in that parallel universe. How'd people have liked that from their altered memories, experiences, and POVs?
An interesting question, but big games exist to fill a desire that people have to explore large worlds and stories right. There are games that you can invest hundreds of hours into, and there are games you can complete in minutes.
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative I still don't get the desire for gigantic worlds with hours of gameplay. The truth and ideal world is a very small game world with fewer minutes of gameplay from start to end. Even tiny open-worlds can be just as fun. Smaller games are replayable. Like watching a weekly TV episode.
The part where you give the blacksmith suggestion of refining your ideas to remove the bulk doesn't fix all indecisive problems a dev may have. Often it isn't even a case of having to many unneeded ideas, sometimes it is just a choice between variations or different directions for a single idea where you don't know which one would be the better idea, and in my experience even asking tons of friends for feedback doesn't help because you will just get tons of different suggestions. Most devs in those cases would just randomly pick one of the ideas in order to stop thinking about it, but in my case my projects are made for myself first before others, so I need to be happy with my choices... which is hard when I often find myself at a crossroad.
I don't think most people would just pick one in order to stop worrying about - I think most people would experience something very similar to what you described, and find themselves at a crossroads. That's why I've honestly grown to love the idea of a "hook" for the game and revolving everything around it - because then you have an objective metric for whether or not a feature should be added. Also as a caution, if you're making your games primarily for yourself but want to do so just as a hobby, that's 1000% great, if you're hoping to become an indie game developer though, it is super important to think about that question of "who is this game for and why would they choose to play it" - this ultimately serves to make the game much better I think.
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative I am a indie dev tho. Haha! But that doesn't mean I am gonna put other folk above my own interests, nor does it mean I never care about the opinions of others either. However there is nothing wrong with creating for primarily your own sake just like any art form. Personally I don't have huge problems with other people liking my stuff as I know how to make good fun ideas that stand out by nature. Anyways having a "hook" for your game doesn't really fix everything involving choices... For ref how does that help choose a outfit among multiple outfit concepts for the main character? Or how does that help you know what the best story direction out of a few variations when each are good ideas?
Oh sorry haha I misunderstood! But are you more of a hobbyist or are you a full-time game developer? As to how a "hook" can inform those kinds of decisions - it took me a while to understand this but, let's imagine some game... let's say Airborne Kingdom - its hook is it's a city builder, but your city flies. So the designers of that game try to come up with mechanics, they might want to decide if they should implement, I don't know, how big should the map be, should there be air combat with other flying cities, and what should buildings look like? Well, if the map is too small, that ruins the point, so you are designing against your hook. Combat with other flying cities could be reasonable, but it certainly doesn't have to be there, so if anything it's a stretch goal, and maybe it would just bloat the game. As to how buildings should look, well, you ask yourself what they would need to have in order to work on a floating city. Same thing with character designs - what would this character reasonably wear based on their personality and upbringing? If they are part of a faction and wear a uniform or something, what materials would that faction make use of, etc.? Narrative/visual stuff might go a little differently than mechanics design but, one way to think of it is to think about "What is the fantasy of this game?" Like in a game about Robin Hood, which is what I plan to do, the fantasy of that is "pinpoint archery" and "rob the rich to feed the poor" - so if I make a Robin Hood game but it's got Batman style combat, people would naturally think "Well ok, but what does this have to do with Robin Hood?" Idk, hope that helps somewhat :) Just some thoughts.
Dokładnie :D
If you want to do that "sprint", you should do it with only small and I mean really small games.
Dani could still create games and have living yt channel, he just should stick to creating smaller games like before.
I agree! As for Dani, I think honestly, man can do whatever he wants at this point haha
Clean code is key. Without it, making games is a bug fest hell, and the more you write the harder it is to keep writing. People need to start to understand, that just because something "works", doesn't mean it works right, and doesn't mean it's maintainable. Before clean code, I also lost motivation for game making, struggling to make a single feature to my game for over a month. But after I discovered it and built my own architecture in Unity, it brought the fun in making games again, making it possible to add 10 new features a month instead of 1, and without slowing down. So I believe that so called "burnout" is not due to community pressure or anything else, but it's due to poor coding practices (and I've seen most of the youtubers code, and it doesn't look great).
That's definitely not the only reason but yes its important. That's also why small projects are so important to start with too, the code is much more manageable while you learn more about best practices.
And obviously to be able to follow and to constantly learn clean coding practices, you have to have love for programming. So you either have to discover love for programming, or search for something else you wanna do in your life because you'll probably suffer doing what you don't love.
I didn't really understand the video as you used a lot of metaphors.
All I know was don't rush to try and make a game take time, and take breaks. This might sound harsh but a lot of the time, when I see a person make something and try to go the realist route I rarely have an interest, sometimes I can tell that person didn't model that asset, I can take a picture of that asset and drag it into a search engine and see where they got that from.
I mean that is the gist of it. I used metaphors to try to help people understand, I'm sorry it didn't work for you.
my team of 3 quit. we added way too much to the game
Sorry to hear that :( You should try a smaller/more cohesive game :)
I don’t even have a ‘dream game’ - just lots of ideas for small games and plenty of spare time, but no energy, a brain full of fog, and an inability to even decide which game engine to use.
Yup, that's definitely similar to the "game dev writer's block" thing. It's tough, and I think the first step is gonna amount to making a decision. Why not just pick an engine and roll with it? Godot is a great choice :)
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative Yeah, Godot is the one I gravitated towards when making a platformer after initially messing about with GameMaker then Defold in 2020… but when in 2022 I decided I wanted to try 3D I found its render quality lacking, and lacking tutorials for 3D.
I got impatient waiting for Godot 4 so ended up jumping to Unity, but got stuck in tutorial hell there doing their Learn Pathways, and I really didn’t like C# and all the cruft that came with that either.
I then took some timeout from game engines and started to focus on the basics of programming again. I messed about with C, Rust and Lua, used frameworks like Raylib and Love2D… but not to any depth, and ended up giving Godot another go on the release of 4.0
I made the mistake of initially trying to port my platformer (which had transmogrified into a Metroidvania) over to it, and got so burnt out I had to take a break from it all again.
I’m now considering giving up entirely, but still find myself drawn to game dev, and I’m still wanting to see my ideas become real games!
It sounds like you need a game jam :) I have one coming up the first weekend of December - but there are others sooner.
Unreal is great for 3D RPG’s!
Game maker is great for 2D games.
Im the dev of CRUDE and i can feel u...after i made REMOTE LIFE i was burnt out... we need a team...nit make games alone😅
It can definitely be hard alone! I was burnt out halfway through Heir Obscure. Sometimes even just having a community to keep each other accountable helps, too.
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative yea...but still...deving is just a toxic addiction
@@MarioDoodles Hopefully this video gave some ideas on how to make it less toxic :)
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative surly its a cool video...but at the end if the road u find still too much work for just one person.....
Well, that only depends on the kind of game your making! Lots of games can be made alone :) people do it all the time while not burning out.
This is why I quit aswell
Dang :( Anything stopping you from giving it another shot with a smaller game idea?
@@AndrzejGieraltCreative yes, I don't like gamedev anymore. But it was fun for some time, I'll just dp smth now that doesn't need as many different skills. Imma try to learn music production(I dont know how music works yet)
Siadasz robić grę i myślisz pół roku,a po pół roku nawet dema nie masz...Trzeba nastawiać się na 2,3 lata.Ja już pierwszy rok mam za sobą,może w grudniu demo skończę😂
Gratulacje! Dobry progres. Ja jestem przekonany ze nowi devs powinni starac sie na 6 miesiecy na pierwsza gre, ale to prawie nigdy sie nie dzieje.
zrobiłem chyba z 5 prototypów różnych gier ucząc się ureala,teraz postanowiłem że robię tylko jedną grę aż skończę.Na razie mi się udaje:)@@AndrzejGieraltCreative
Super! Dobrze slyszec.
No offence , But when we are broke and hungry , we don't even know what's burn out .
None taken but, yeah I guess that's not really what I'm talking about in the video. People in that situation are probably not making games but focusing on trying to eat.
🤣@@AndrzejGieraltCreative
A lot of people claim crunch bad, but honestly, it's just part of the process. You have to get stuff done one way or another. Whether it's a bad guy making you do it, or just yourself doing it due to being disciplined, you will crunch and people clutching their pearls at such things are kind of moronic.
Honestly, Jonas is the best person to get ANY advice from. He has done it all.
Well, I dont think it's a good idea to recommend to those who struggle with burnout already, especially if it's due to crunch, to crunch anyway. I think if you have a well defined idea, yeah there will be times you'll have to crunch, but the most importent thing is to be consistent.
LOL, I get that. I suppose I just think it's important for people to understand that the creation process isn't all sunshine and rainbows. There are times where you just have to do something, even if you don't want to.
My advice for doing that though is to find things that give you that feeling of motivation and use that as your catalyst. Certain music does this, stories, meditation, sleep, etc. You need to definitely be in the right mindset, so all you really need to worry about is to remember why you even started in the first place. Find that feeling and hold onto it.@@AndrzejGieraltCreative
@@kukukachu good point, true, there are definitely wholesome things people can implement to get back into motivation mentality. I guess ultimately its gonna come in waves.
Definitely@@AndrzejGieraltCreative
@kukukachu As someone who has dealt with crunch quite a few times, I'm going to 100% wholeheartedly disagree.
Crunch is always bad. It's never good. Never necessary. Yes there's times when the push of gamedev and "finishing" is a struggle you have to push past, but that's not the same as crunch.
Games are never finished, no art ever is, you have to release it at some point and that's important to remember.
But crunch isn't just working a little harder for a couple weeks. It's self-harm. I don't mean that metaphorically or as some analogy. After my time in crunch every time I even tried to go to my computer I would have extreme panic attacks. Yet I'd still try to force myself to work, this still effects me. The mental health toll isn't something you can "meditate" away.
Not getting proper sleep causes extreme health problems. Prolonged stress causes extreme health problems. Crunch will literally destroy your physical and mental health and should not be put in the same category as "working a bit harder." Crunch in my eyes is a Prolonged period of extreme non-existence robotically dedicated to doing a task you once loved in the most painful way possible while neglecting your own health and everything else around you. It's a state similar to an addict on a bender and it's self harm and most of all its just unnecessary.
Like I said the game has to get released, but that doesn't mean crunch. Pace the time out, delay the game, take breaks, focus on your mental health. This has to be a consistent process, there's never a time to say "I just won't see my wife or family today to finish this." Thats absurd. Even if you make something great as a result all you'll leave with as a developer is a couple weeks of doctors visits, trauma responses, worse relationships, and a game that ultimately you hate because of how much torture it was to make even if everyone loves it.
Money isn't everything, I'd hazard to say its not even anything. The only thing that matters is that you enjoy the process. Crunch doesn't provide time to do that.
I'm never crunching again in my life. I got so sick afterwards and the only way I managed the trauma responses is with edibles (I don't want a Xanax addiction)
I also don't miss hallucinating from lack of sleep. Never worth it.
Edit: I'd like to add, it's not about motivation either. People crunching are extremely motivated. You have to be to literally kill yourself every day for no good reason. But it's important to remember the mental toll. Look up the recent MAPPA animator issues. They're literally tweeting after not seeing their families and working 24/7 saying stuff like "sorry everyone I'm human garbage, I'll try to be better next time but for now I'll continue living as the worst animator." While making stuff I couldn't dream of doing. That guy doesn't need motivation, he needs a better schedule and a break.
I think all that really needs to be said about crunch culture is just look at Japan's suicide and alcoholism rate. Then look at any Danish country on the planet. We don't live to work, and we don't work to live. Life is an experience and we shouldn't cut ourselves off in such painful ways for short term goals like a game deadline. Its supposed to be fun
Lmao trying to sell a game dev starter guide?
Yikes 😬
@TennessseeTimmy why lmao, what do you mean "selling" (it's free?) and why yikes? Looking forward to understanding 👍