CHESS and SHOGI: ULTIMATE GUIDE of the differences between
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- 0:08 Design of the Pieces
1:12 Chess and Shogi Board
2:19 Capturing Pieces
3:14 Piece Promotion
4:14 Piece Movement
4:52 Castling
5:29 Draws & Stalemate
6:15 Handicap Games
7:41 Ratings & Titles
9:44 Time Controls
Where to play Shogi?
Lishogi: lishogi.org/learn
81Dojo: 81dojo.com/
Are you curious about the differences between Chess and Shogi? Look no further than this ultimate guide! In this video, we'll explore the 10 key differences between Chess and Shogi.
From their pieces to their different rules, you'll gain a comprehensive understanding of what sets these two games apart. Whether you're a seasoned player or a beginner, this video is perfect for anyone who wants to expand their knowledge of Chess and Shogi.
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Special thanks to Shogi Harbour members.
Karolina @ShogiHarbour - for allowing me to use picture from WOSC/ESC 2022.
ddeo - for making the engraved_cz Shogi set that is available on lishogi.org
github.com/ddeo604/sp/tree/gh...
Rida @Ridaha for helping out with some of the draft.
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#chess #shogi #differences #boardgames #strategy #gaming #games #mindgames #ultimateguide #comparisons #将棋 #japanese #culture - Zábava
05:25 There is a mistake in the Bear in the Hole castle, the Lance and King's position should be switched, I missed that in the editing. Sorry!
Thanks for making content aimed at both chess and shogi players. As an intermediate chess player who has a growing interest in shogi, your channel is a perfect fit for me.
As a chess player I tried shogi a while back for about a month and really liked it. Ultimately the reason I stopped playing was because it was hard to differentiate the pieces. It made it hard to properly calculate things when everything looks the same in the peripheral vision. I would 100% have stuck to it more if it was easier to keep track of all the pieces at a glance versus Japanese characters on the same shape of piece.
Thanks for the comment, It's time to come back!
Lishogi now has hybrid pieces that have the symbols of movement and the Japanese characters, there are also better english shogi materials by Shogi Harbour and Shogi Kingdom.
You can join Shogi Harbour discord here discord.com/invite/wggn65v
I can imagine the difficulty too, the different pieces also comes in different chess variants (Called Fairy Chess) including pieces that are called like Unicorn, Archbishop, Chancellor, Amazon, etc... That will be hard to track on the board unless you play digitally.
Ooh. May I know for how long you played?
That the only thing I don t like about shogi … characters , monocolor looking and impossible to find shogi books with western logos … I m playing more xiangqi and chess
@@bozmar1 Its because only the kanji are serious playing pieces. Its not easy at first, but its worth getting used to shogi kanji
Handicap games do exist in chess. Just not in tournament settings.
As a player who likes to play different variants of chess, this is a really good video and actually taught me some things I didn’t know about 将棋 (Shogi). Thank you!
Thank you for your kind comment!! I really appreciate it 😊
I'm just an amateur shogi player in Japan.
I watched this video with interest because this video shows how shogi looks like to chess players.
Good work.
Thank you for your comment!
feels like a very easy way to promote the game in the west would be to make the pieces distinct. Has 0 effect on gameplay but would help Westerner's intuition
That is very true. This is why we have different piece sets for more accessibility. The set I used is the engraved_cz set from Lishogi.
Very useful info! Thank you for sharing 🙏
Thanks for your comments and your enjoyment of the video 💗
Well explained :) Good job!
Thanks Schwarz!!!! How are you doing lately?
@@jienjienShogi I am fine. Playing Shogi on a weekly base or correspondence games. A lot to do in real life :)
@@schwarzcronnok102 That's great, we all have to do what's important to us first, take care Schwarz ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you so much for the information! I've been a (somewhat infrequent) chess puzzle solver in the past, and I really liked to solve shogi exercises as well when I found out about them. The information from this video may end up helping me properly play shogi in the future, and i really appreciate that :)
Thanks for your comment!!
//panic// ..but i didn't tell any information about puzzles 👀 (edit: ohhh i reread your comment and it makes sense, i hope you do enjoying playing shogi!! there a few websites to play like lishogi, 81dojo, and shogi wars)it's also one of my future videos so stay tuned.
Meanwhile, if you really like shogi puzzles, you can try solving them at playshogi.com! Lishogi also has puzzles too. There are free books about tsume (shogi puzzle) as well, like this one. book.mynavi.jp/files/user/shogi_news/free/9784839960384/index.html?page=1
@@jienjienShogi Thank you very much for your response! I've actually been aware of lishogi for a while now, and I've played quite a few puzzles on there (rated at ~1800), but i will definitely give these other resources a go as well!! :)
If you want to play a game on lishogi you can send me a challenge on correspondence 😆 my username is jienjien
if you want to join our shogi community, we have a discord called Shogi Harbour discord.com/invite/wggn65v
you can also find Shogi Harbour on CZcams 🙈
Enjoyed it very much, thank you!
Thanks for watching! 💗
@@jienjienShogi 💜✨
I was planning to make a similar video but i guess you beat me right to it. Very good, informational, and professional video, jien 🤩
Thanks a lot shogidojo 😆 I was doing research and i found that nobody had done a video like this. thanks a lot for watching ☺️❤️
You can still do it shogidojo, my content might not reach your viewers, and i love to see more people making content ❤
Don't abandon your idea because somebody else already did it. You'll explain the topic in a different way, and for many people, reading the "same" info from different teachers is an excellent way to a better understanding.
Great video Jien
Thanks a lot Gerson! I almost died rushing editing this in 3 days not gonna lie
Very nice explanation and it covers all important points!
I'm glad you like it! 😍
Byoyomi should be used in chess, where endgames become simpler, and shogi should use Bronstein, where endgames become more complex !
Thanks for the comment! Fun fact, Shogi Club 24 has Bronstein Delay!
Handicap in chess is usually rare, we had Paul Morphy that he played with a knight down or even a rook down, that's professional matches in pre-FIDE times. But the most common ones are helping younger / newer players to fight with a full set VS a Queen down or 2 bishops down for example, mostly as unranked and casual matches.
Having a 2nd time clock like byoyomi for chess is kind of unnecessary because we got time increments, moreover, if any draws even in Blitz, we got Armageddon as the last decisive match to declare a winner guaranteed.
What i meant was if you substitute increments to byoyomi, would it be better overall in game performance to calculate better? Also I guess since Chess endgames get simplified, you don't really need byoyomi at all.
@@jienjienShogi, Opening and Midgames tend to take some thinking times and GMs have to hurry on faster time format. Once you're in the endgame, your knowledge will put to the test. If byoyomi is used instead of increments, if using the shogi clocks, then who knows, might perform better? But 30 seconds only work for Rapid format, Blitz is 10 seconds. 60 seconds is still too long for Classical unless it's for lower rated players, Agadmator explained his games and GMs rarely lost on time.
If you ask Hikaru Nakamura, the speed demon of Fast Chess, I'm sure he'll appreciate the byoyomi format
Thank you for your insight for the chess clocks in the chess world! Do you play any of the chess variants, or shogi at all?
@@jienjienShogi Chess tournaments can have rules where a certain number of moves must be done in a given period. And you can get pressured for time and lose due to loss of time, if you aren't careful in the endgame, even with fewer pieces on the board (though usually what happens is a player gets pressure on time and makes a mistake, then loses or draws). Which is one reason the American grandmaster, Bobby Fischer, invented the Fischer clock, which uses time increments added for every move.
You can have handicaps based on different time controls as well, in more modern times with computerized clocks or computer chess.
Another recent innovation is one side can play with some degree of computer engine assistance to handicap the other player. The ChessUp chessboard supports this feature, so one side can avoid playing blunders or mistakes. It has variable levels of assistance. It's a very cool feature and I'm not sure it's been implemented in any other products or applications.
I haven't played Shogi, but as for both Chess qnd Go, I think Fischer time is generally the best. In Go at least, byoyomi makes time management awkward at times, as one usually spends every byoyomi peripd to the full regardless of whether the immediate next move requires much thinking - in case it doesn't, one tries of course to read beyond the next move as far as possible anyway, but that results in inefficient use of the clock. In contrast, Fischer time allows the player to use the clock more when it is most needed.
An argument for byoyomi can however be made in terms of spectators and commentators, as it makes the pace of play more even (at least after the players have entered byoyomi).
Wow, nice video Jien san
Thank you siow san ❤️❤️❤️
Shogi is ... well, if you have fun good for you. Like shatranj and thai chess. Games that won't allow dynamics that are dynamic.
I wonder if there's a version of this with a western redesign, the game looks fun.
You can play with different piece designs on lishogi.org , there's also international pieces on 81dojo
Many thanks for the video.
As a chess player, other than the hard time learning the kanjis for the pieces, I find it really hard to enjoy just because I had no idea what to do with tnem. Say I study some basic opening theory. Ok, so far so good. So at a certain time I'm in the early middlegame and just completely lost, almost randomly moving my pieces. Maybe this could be an idea for future videos.
Thank you so much for the comment! If you play on Lishogi, you can change the piece set to one with the symbols on, so it might be easier to visualize.
For middlegame tips, that will be cool to make too, i will cover it in the future. i have a series of videos planned out.
To give you some idea about the middle game in Shogi. I have to explain about the 3 parts of the game: opening, middle game and endgame.
The opening is where you castle your king, meaning protect your king to one side of the board away from the rook with 3 generals and prepare your attack with your left over silver together with your rook and bishop.
once the pawns clash, the middle game starts.
the goal of the middlegame is to trade off your silvers and/or promote your rook (or bishop) into the enemy camp, So you might think of it like, focusing your attack on one point of the enemy camp and breaking through with your rook.
or trading your rook with your opponent and dropping it in the enemy camp.
endgame starts when you have promoted or your major pieces in enemy camp, and it's time to dismantle the enemy castle. usually you trade off lesser pieces for their silvers and golds and you both race to checkmate the king (or it could be one sided and you have tempo advantage).
one thing to remember is that it is best to have 4 pieces in the attack (on the board or in your hand), so that you don't run out of steam in your attack. because you trade pieces in the offense, you can redrop them and your attack can continue. if you don't, then your attack will end prematurely and you have to give up tempo/initiative
@@jienjienShogi Well, I didn't expect such an extensive answer; thanks a lot for your time and effort. I'll read it carefully, and be looking forward to your videos on the topic!
@@emiliodiaz6527 No problem! I hope I was clear in explaining! If you ever want to find friends to play with, come to Shogi Harbour! discord.com/invite/wggn65v
You can also watch Shogi Harbour videos , she has a beginner playlist.
This is an excellent presentation of the basic differences between Chess and Shogi.
The stalemate rule in Shogi being a loss is the exact same rule as the ancient form of chess, Shahtranj or Chaturanga (which was also the ancestor to Shogi). Of course, that makes drawn games less likely than in Chess, where they are common, though usually draws in Chess are due to both sides being unable to checkmate each other due to loss of pieces or being unable to find a better board position.
Shahtranj and medieval western chess had a rule where, if you take away the opponents pieces except the king, a so-called "bare board", the opponent loses. Does Shogi have a similar rule? I am assuming this is the case.
Thanks for your comment! In Shogi, pieces can always come back to the board, so achieving a bare board state is quite a feat except if you're playing no-drop Shogi or if one side decided to capture all the opponent's pieces.
It's more common in 10 piece handicap (you have King and 9 pawns), and eventually you will get to a stalemate position easily if you play long enough, Haha!
Do you play Shogi? If no, you can try out the Lishogi website lishogi.org
Hi there, I’m new to Shogi. As of today I’ve decided to learn how to play, as a visual learner I was wondering if you could direct me towards a site where I could watch professional Shogi matches?
Hello 👋🏼 You can watch videos from Shogi Harbour and Shogi Kingdom to learn about Shogi, and for Professional games, you can go to AbemaTV to watch on their shogi category!
I think XiangQi is a much better, I just wish people were more devoted to quality as Shogi players. Most of use are playing on marker lines drawn on a spare wood or cardboard. I really like the floor Ban the players sit around.
There are people who play Shogi with drawn lines and cardboard papers, joy can be experienced in everywhere
Hey! Can someone provide me some sites / videos / lives where I could watch analysis of actual (not those from 12 years) master's games ? And either in English, French or German. thx
Hello there! Thanks for messaging! You can check out Shogi Kingdom CZcams channel for videos about recent professional shogi analysis
@@jienjienShogi Ok! Danke :) (Sorry for the extremely late response x))
@@saphir7632 no problem!! If you want to join our Shogi community, Shogi harbour, click on the discord link! discord.com/invite/wggn65v
What is Shogi's strongest engine?
I'm curious about that.
Stockfish 😌 I'm joking hahaha
The strongest engine to my knowledge is YaneuraOu with NNUE, which you need to use a GUI like ShogiDokoro or Shogi GUI(I prefer this)
Recently there's a shogi engine tournament last few months ago, maybe you can look more into it there.
@@jienjienShogi Now I have so much things to ask, if you don't mind.
Anyway, you deserve a subs, nice video. 👍
Thanks a lot🙏 I'll keep making more! Ask me anything about Shogi!
@@jienjienShogi Thank you. 🙏
Does Shogi have Shogi Engine Championship like TCEC(Top Chess Engine Championship)?
@@williamweekhai3252 There is! there's the Denryuu sen 電竜戦 (Electric Dragon Tournament), they just finished last month i think. and i skimmed the webpage, DLShogi won i think
nice！
ひさしぶり！
i am Anonymous！！
Anon-san!!!!!!! 久しぶりですね、お元気ですか
@@jienjienShogi はい！元気です！
JienjienさんのLIVEまた見たい！
良かった~ I will stream again soon! But now I'm focusing on making videos , TikTok and CZcams Shorts!
I’m about 1900 USCF chess. I played Shogi for about three years, and reached about the same strength. I like it better as a game, but its hard to find opponents.
Thanks for the comment Macleadg! Mind if i point you the direction to more Shogi players?
Join the Shogi Harbour discord and there are many international players including the USA, you can also join the US Teams for the World Shogi League, I can point you to the key person in charge 😉
Link: discord.com/invite/wggn65v
Sure. I was playing back when you had to find players in person. Larry Kaufman taught me to play, and he used to run a club where I played.
@@macleadg That's great! ShogiExplained did an interview with Larry Kaufman on stream once. www.twitch.tv/shogiexplained/v/1304862785
There's a Shogi tournament soon in LA, organized by Mark Ono on June 24th and 25th,
I can link you more details if you join the discord group, or you can contact Mark (310) 867 1425 email: mark@msinter.us
What kind of app is that's for shogi pc? 😊
you can play on 81dojo, and lishogi 😄
@@jienjienShogi I can play it with ai or computer so I can play whenever I want?
@@jienjienShogi dude I can download it and ay it offline
@@user-ny5py1so4j both need internet access, 81dojo is only internet, lishogi you can play with the Ai, there's phone apps that you can play offline if you search shogi
@@jienjienShogi no pc game?
Isn't Shogi also played on a square field? 9x9?
Hello there! Thanks for the comment, I was talking about the literal shape of the boards. Shogi boards are actually rectangular in shape.
I see you are doing well with your youtube? Should I just go through some comments maybe answering some questions and may put a liiil bit of promotion :P? I can imagine its quite a lot doing it by yourself. (also great job on the video, its astetically very enjoyable too, which requires quite some work)
You're so thoughtful, Melkor ❤️
There are odds games in chess, it’s just not played that often except when a grandmaster is playing a newbie.
That is true! In shogi the odds are super balanced and amateurs play it all the time
How is shogi different from Chinese chess? Greetings from the chess world.
Hello!! Thanks for commenting.
It's actually an interesting topic, but I don't know if it would be a great video because the main points of shogi are already known in this video 😂 maybe i can do it in the near future.
but in short, pieces are different, the board is different in size, and chinese chess has no promotion except for pawns.
after promotion, Pawns can move left and right in addition to the front moving that it has.
games are much quicker than shogi, and the kings cannot face each other 😉
You can do handicap games in chess too. And it's often done
I see! I felt that way because when I ask Chess players to play handicap in Shogi, they often say no. Maybe pride or just want to test their strength 🙈
Chess handicaps are almost never played when compared to shogi handicaps. All shogi players play handicap games almost everyday, while most chess players never play a chess handicap game once in their life, although some do.
@@jienjienShogi Yes it is very often a matter of pride, speaking from experience. As a beginner I'd usually feel humiliated if a stronger player wanted to play down a piece, however you eventually realize that this way is more fun(even if less instructive perhaps) and start playing like that. It's really just up to the players
@@pawncube2050 I agree with your comment, if i were to imagine i'm a beginner again, I would want to play an even game all the time but Shogi is very unforgiving with the piece drops and promotion, the learning curve is quite steep i have to say.
With 20 Shogi pieces on the board it's hard to think of how to develop your pieces if you're just starting out.
In Japan, they teach kids how to checkmate first with just enemy King and the kid will have Bishop Rook and King, the goal is to teach them promotion rules and how to surround the king. It's like a small minigame.
@@jienjienShogi Yes this is one thing I think does steepen the learning curve, the piece drops specially, its just a whole new aspect to the game. Similar to crazyhouse/bughouse, I personally haven't had the patience to try and learn actual strategy in those games.
Chess players write their moves. Shogi players not.
Hello 🤗 Uhm, not sure where did you get that impression, but we do record our moves on paper or on the app for our analysis.
In professional Shogi games, another person will help to record the moves in a kifu (game record) paper!
@@jienjienShogi
I play shogi in Japan and I have never seen any shogi player who writes his moves during a competitive game. Sometimes there were some players who had an assistant/friend who was responsible for writing their moves, either on paper or using a kifu application.
In chess it is a requirement for all players who play competitive chess with standard time controls to write their moves. (Electronic devices are not allowed by the way)
Where have you seen shogi players who were writing their moves?
@@AthanasiosJapan I mean its rather rare, you right. For example I dont want to distract myself during the game so I will write it down after it finishes. But there some people who do it, at least in european shogi
Man really they couldn't make some distinct figures for shogi? how i m supposed to distinguish its piece when i have no clue about japanese? that's he basic reason i think i ll stay away
Learning a few characters is a small step to experiencing a great game!