How to balance the toyota hybrid battery
Vložit
- čas přidán 21. 02. 2022
- In this amazing episode we will break many myths related to balancing the hybrid batteries. make sure to pay real attention cause this info will probably change everything you thought about this matter and then of course this info will help you a lot to improve your work when balancing a hybrid battery. enjoy ☝😎
My friend if the dog bite you. You can't bite the dog, just ignore the hater and carry on doing well done.
Be careful when adding batteries to this balancer. Ensure the modules being inserted into the group have a voltage close to the other batteries on the balancer. Otherwise a lot of amps may flow very quickly into/out of the battery being added to the group. You can use a SkyRC charger to charge the group of balanced batteries @ 5.2 amps total, however I recommend charging the modules one module at a time. The reason is each module has different capacities and resistance. When I charged the whole pack up to 8.30 volts, when I discharged some of the modules, their mAh capacity dropped considerably. I used to think it was the electrical connection of the aluminum strips on the balancer. But even when I connected the modules with copper wire using nuts, I had similar strange results. When I charge just two modules together in parallel, the discharge capacity is lower than expected. I think this is because the charge being applied is too low, and somehow the batteries with more capacity will take on more of the charge, and the modules with more resistance will be charged less. I have found that if you want strong discharge amps, you need to charge an individual module with 3.0 amps or 3.2 amps. If you charge the modules when connected in parallel, the charge amps are much lower (per module). When you discharge the modules to test them, some of them will have much fewer mAh than before. I also decided to track the temperature as the modules are being charged. If you have a charger similar to the SkyRC charger, you can buy a temperature probe for about $10. I would cut off the charger at around 82 F. In the summer, you obviously will have a different cut-off temp. I noticed my Prius pack can sometimes get up to 125 F (at a time when the pack was not paired up properly). When pairing modules up for the pack, it is important to pair them up, first on resistance, and then mAh capacity. Do NOT pair weak modules with strong modules (formula for pack failure).
I noticed that when charging a module @ 3.0 amps up to 8.60v, the module got warm (about 82 F) and the module expanded. After doing this, the total capacity went up to about 3000 mAh, and it took a charge of 3236 mAh. Keep in mind the modules I tested were old and were the best of the modules that did not make the cut when I rebuilt my hybrid pack. Over time, I came to the conclusion that charging @ 3.0 amps is safer than 3.2 amps. However, I have found it beneficial to charge a module a few times @ 3.2 amps up to 8.60v to get the module to get it discharge more normally. After a few cycles charging @ 3.2 amps, I will switch back to charging @ 3.0 amps. I tried clamping two boards around the module to prevent it from expanding. This helped reduce the swelling, however this causes the module to get warmer more quickly, so I like charging a single module with a fan on it, and turn off the charging when the temp gets to 82 F. I noticed the module starts getting warm at 8.500v (80 F), gets warmer when the voltage is at 8.550 volts (81 F), and gets warmer when at 8.59v (82 F) (each module will be different and hopefully this improves with each cycle). Note: the voltage I am referring to is the actual module voltage, that my custom Arduino code captures for the one second (every 30 seconds) which is when the SkyRC charger is not charging. The SkyRC charger thinks the voltage is more like 8.70 volts, but when it stops charging, the voltage is closer to 8.59 volts. Note: the max voltage a Prius module can store is about 8.60 volts, and Delta V is triggered at around 8.72 volts (if it gets triggered). The SkyRC charger usually does NOT detect Delta V (which occurs when a module is fully charged).
Great. Dr Prius shows my state of health at 95%. I don't know the history of the car, since I just bought it, its 2014 Camry with 190k miles, so my guess that the battery has already been serviced or replaced. My question is can I use a mechanic balancer on all modules for 48 hours with out using any kind of charger, and will just balancing the modules along be a good source to prolong the battery life? Thank you 👍
I would also like to know if I can rebalance the battery without connecting it to a charger. Is the charger just to insure that the modules are all at max charge before I start rebalancing?
Yes, you can balance a group of modules without a charger. At 11:00 in the video, Jose has two modules connected in parallel (hanging from the aluminum bars). When connected like this, electricity will flow between the modules, and their voltage will become equal (balanced between the hanging modules), without using a charger. When you are inserting another module into the group of modules being balanced, you should check the voltage of the module. If it is less than the group voltage, then I would charge that individual module up to the voltage of the group, before adding it to the group. If the module is at a higher voltage, then I would connect a charger to the module, and discharge it down to match the voltage of the group of modules. However, each of the 28 modules in a Gen 2 Prius contains six cells. The six cells will get balanced (somewhat) when you charge the modules up to 8.40 volts (Jose explains this in another video where he describes the six cells being balanced in a module). Once the modules in the group are at 8.40 volts, you can apply a small trickle charge of 0.5 amps for the pack (or 0.1 amps for a module) @ 8.40 volts for an hour or so (I do not know how long is safe to trickle charge at such a high voltage of 8.40 volts). DO NOT CHARGE HIGHER THAN 8.40 volts!!! If you charge a module @ 8.70 volts for a few hours, there is a good likelihood you will damage that module! The module has a safety feature that kicks in around 8.70 volts causing the voltage to drop suddenly, which indicates the battery is fully charged, and that you should stop charging it. Most chargers do NOT detect this voltage drop. If you charge higher than 8.5 volts, it may use up the chemical that triggers this voltage drop (which is what I mean when I say you may damage the battery). The Prius charging system can detect this, but if you use up the chemical that triggers the voltage drop, then the Prius may charge the battery pack higher than intended. Note: I charged some of my modules higher than 8.70 volts, and I suspect that I damaged them, which would explain why my Prius sometimes charges the modules up to 9.5 volts (when driving). The Dr. Prius app lets you see (and record) the voltages when driving.
@@GaryMarkowski So you can rebalance batteries without a charger but I still need a charger to be able to charge or discharge modules to even out voltages before balancing. So a charger is still needed. What kind of options are there for a charger? A prolong charger is a little bit too expensive for myself. I have noticed some people use an rc charger of sorts, and I understand that a low current charger is what I need. But what are my options? Is there a video or website that could help me make the decision on what kind of charger I need and can afford?
@@YaroGoret I have two SkyRc V2 RC chargers (no fan). They work good, but they do NOT detect when the battery is fully charged (this is a huge problem). So if you buy a RC charger, make sure it works with NiMH batteries AND will automatically stop when the battery if fully charged. I have seen some videos where they charged a single module @ 10 amps. This is huge no no. I have charged some modules @ 5 amps, and some of my modules failed after doing that. I think you can get good results charging @ 3 amps (or 2 amps). You may need to charge at least 2 amps (per module) to reduce the "memory" effect that can occur at lower charge rates. There is very little information out there to tell you exactly how to charge your modules, so it is a big learning experience (trial and error). The Prolong charger used to cost around $450. The nice thing about it is you don't have to learn much, and it will take a LOT less time to charge/discharge the whole pack (effort wise). I would not discharge a single module any faster than 2.5 to 3 amps (one auto headlight). I spent about 120 hours researching this topic. You can save research time by buying the Prolong charger. Maybe other people can share more recent information regarding chargers. 20/20 hindsight, make sure the charger you get can auto detect when the battery is fully charged (which will be around 8.40 volts (or less)). When a module is fully charged, the voltage will drop suddenly (ie. Negative Drop in Voltage - NVD). I find most modules do not take and keep a charge above 8.20 volts. If I charge these modules up to about 8.25 volts (individually), this seems to extend their capacity when testing their discharge. Once charged, some modules will drift down to 8.08 volts, and most will drift down to 7.88 volts. The ones that hold at 8.08 volts usually drop below 8.0 volts within 10 seconds of a headlight being attached.
Those aluminum bars is a very clever solution for voltage balancing.
Having experience witth LiPo, LiFePo4, lead acid batteries and BMSes (battery management system) I know that same voltage doesn't mean that each cell has the same capacity (often cells are degenerated by heat).
Cells in the middle of a battery pack get hotter, so best practice is to swap them with the cells on the outside. A thermal camera (very affordable these days) can give you insight about the temperature difference between cells and their condition (bad cells tend to get warmer, too).
To recondition, 3 cycles of discharge and charge each cell (with approx. 0.6C - 0.8C and cooling) with 30min rest in between is pretty efficient. Could make a huge difference in capacity. For RC there are great chargers available that aren't expensive.
NiMh doesn't like trickle (slow) charging.
Dude you made me feel smart. If you want my old battery it’s from 2015. I don’t think it’s really bad.
The refurbished one working so far! Great comment! I’d like to read all your comments on CZcams. Live long and prosper
This is the best method to balance the cells. I also used this method 4 years ago & saved lots of customer money. 👍👍
Did you charge while balancing? Or charge every individual cell and balance them ? Thanks
Have you tried Nissan batteries
I can't tell you how much I appreciated this. Thanks again Jose.
me too
I also can appreciate your sense of humor and free spirit brother. Lately, CZcams is trending towards 20-minute video length, only a suggestion. Thank you for the physics lesson for the folks who don't understand this portion of electronics/electricity.
‼️ Pure genius, Jose rocks! You-really, de-man. Ingenuity, super deep dive, thinking outside the box with excellent communication skills, Dude, you are the gospel and conscience of this trade. Thank you! Jim from Chicago.
Thanks a lot jim and don't forget to share 😎😎✅️✅️
Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Now I am ready to charge and balance the high voltage battery in my Prius C.
Great video, love your lessons. Thank you and keep your positive attitude!😊
Great 👍
Definitely learning Experience.
Thank you.
Your explanation for bringing it to balance was very understandable.thank you.
Mr jose loved every minute of your video 🙏🙏🙏
All this knowledge for free. Thank you sir.
Excellent! You have a awesome sense of humor!
Great channel! Here in Brazil hybrid vehicles are recent, I'm learning in this great channel.
Hey Bro, thanks for sharing your knowledge on Hybrid Systems. You are doing an amazing job. Keep it up.
Amazing technic. Thumbs up
Thank you so much for taking the time to teach us these really neat tricks.
Thank you for watching mike... glad you liked it ☝😎
Thanks 4 teach us
You are a great sensei! Thank you, for sharing your knowledge. I am a retired tech who never got hybrid training and between you and the Weber State Auto gentleman, I feel confident that I can bring my 2011 Prius back to life.
Glad to help
Great video! Thank so much for sharing knowledge ans experience!
Thank you... 👋😎
Thank you, it was very useful
Very informative and excellent work again bro👌👍
Great video, thanks for the info
Hello! Thanks, very useful.
Just come across your videos Jose, thanks for the content and sharing your knowledge. The automotive industry is starting to shift once again and this information will be something all technicians will need to acquire!
Disregard the haters! Great content and delivery! No matter what we do in life there’s always someone with a negative view. Just keep doing you 👍🏻.
Thanks a lot michael 👋😎👋😎
Awesome work, and very informative!
Thank you Ravin, glad you liked it ☝😎
Hey thanks for taking the time to make this video. I'm about to change busbars on a 2010 Prius and balancing hadn't even crossed my mind until I saw this, so going to do it at the same time. Thanks bud! 👍
Did you balance the hybrid
Great video, I will be cleaning and inverting the cells as you me tioned on my 2011 prius, I dont have the balancer, can I still install them and let the car charge them? Or is it required to balance them before install? I have the V on prius app. And about 3-4 degrees higher on battery #2 compared to 1 and 3 as seen on other videos that you have explained due to heatstress. If highly recommended I will balance them, is there another alternative to do this other than prolong balancer?
Thanks for your vidios very importan for loren alat
Men you are the best I'm totally agreed with you thanks to shared all that information
Thank you for your support brother 👋😎
You are a lifesaver you are a golden💪
By the way you don't have to thank us for watching we have to to thank you for those educational videos thank you very much.
Thank you very much
Simple and amazing
Thank you one of the best Video 👍
Thank you 👋😎
Great video. Could you provide specs on the balancer or do a video on how to complete and where to get the parts, what size wood board, bolts...etc?
Bro you're doing great work to educate tech's like myself, who are here to learn from you & admire your efforts in putting this together, huge work👍
As for haters, they will never stop hating people who are helping other's & sharing knowledge
Keep up the great work Bro, Stay Safe & Thanks for sharing👍
Thank you so much Salman ☝😎☝😎
Thanks brother 😊😊😊😊
Great Video, Can I ask how your balance table is made? Is it just a plywood bottom? Are the bars on the top aluminum?
Awesome work
Nice job Jose. 👍👍👍
Perfect jig for checking charge and balancing. Is it your design?
How long does it usually take for balancing for one, two, or three bad cells?
Shouldn't you be wearing gloves?
Everyone who owns a hybred or full electric should watch this video.
I just subscribed.
I have learned a lot from your videos. I have one bothersome question: You show balancing with the Prolong battery Charger in a video, and your mechanical customized balancer in this video. When would you use one or the system, or would you use both for a reconditioning?
You are a mad Genius!!
Thanks !!
Jejeje thanks mark, hope this helps 👋😎
Instead of charging the complete pack can the batteries be charged individually. For an aqua what is the individual cell voltage and what voltage should they be charged? Thanks for the videos they are great.
Hi Jose, I stumbled upon your videos and really LOVE them. I’m sure I could figure out the measurements of your balancing mechanism on my own (by measuring one of the cells - I haven’t removed any yet) but I was wondering if you’d mind sharing the materials/dimensions of your brilliantly designed device? Thanks so much!
Sure catherine no problem... however it was made at the prius battery sides... 👋😎
Man you are doing a great job
Thank you 👋😎
Thank you sir for sharing this video the balancing of battery was something new just one question sir how would I be able to knw that what module is really bad and has to be thrown and and which one can be revived
You are a genius
fantastic idea guy
Great work
Thank you.
Great demo. It’s very interesting the way you explain it in the simplest layman’s terms. Thank you.
Nice Idea boss welldone
Glad you liked it 😎👍
Hi
Do you have a video on how u made the balancer ?? Can u please post the link
.thank you.
I have a 2014 kia optima hybrid. If i buy a new cell charge up all the cells then balance (which im assuming same principles apply as in this video). Will the lifespan or capacity for the cell all be the same?
Fantastic!!!!
Hello, my very simple principal question. Why is such a big deal balancing the modules so closely!? I understand if there's a big difference but what if they are about 0.5 volt different? The other thing is do you load test them before balancing them. How about if they have different capacities under the load even if they have almost the same voltage!? Thanks
Excellent video. I have duffed and experimented with replacement and balancing of hybrid cells within the hybrid battery pack, and finally arrived at the thinking you present here. Wish I had seen this video when I began my fact finding journey.
Nice what are the Measurements of your board I’d like to make one
I was curious if balancing the modules actually improved the modules, so I explored balancing the pack more, and I have a theory of what happens when you balance the modules. After balancing the modules, I charged them individually @ 3 amps up to 8.50 volts, and then tested their discharge time. For some of the modules, their capacity dropped dramatically (to 20% of their previous capacity). However, after cycle charging/discharging them a few times, the capacity came back. What is going on here? I think what may be happening is that when you balance the modules, the electrons flow back and forth much more, causing clumps of material to become dislodged. I think this back and forth action is similar to how water in a swimming pool moves back and forth when someone jumps in the water. I find some older modules have a hare time keeping the voltage at 8.20 volts. A module that cannot be charged higher than 7.2 volts likely has a bad cell, and should be discarded. Charging a balanced pack up to 8.40 volts for 12 hours likely is safe. Doing this step will likely bring the voltage of all 6 cells in each modules up to 1.4 volts each (8.40 volts / 6 cells). Balancing the modules this way is dangerous so BE CAREFUL! Make sure + to + ALWAYS, and also make sure a module's voltage is close to the pack when adding it to the balanced pack.
he takes too long
Hi Jose, Great channel. Really appreciate it. I have 2 questions regarding charging. Is a 1 amp NOCO Genius charger sufficiently small to collectively charge a Prius Gen 2 hybrid battery without causing overheating. Secondly, if I make balancing "machine" like yours, will I run the risk of having cells expand if I add charge while they are on the balancer?
As long as you use tma very low current charger and good ventilation it should be fine... but do not charge in the balancer... modules will swell bad... 👋👋😎😎
I have a toyota auris hybrid from 2018 but in the future i need to change battery also.. the capacity of the toyota auris battery hybrid is 6.5Ah, is possible to upgrade the capacity to the 12Ah or more?
Quick question what would be causing higher temperature reading on Dr Prius on Battery Temp 3 block 10-14
dirty corrosion on wires and buss bars
can you please tell me if the individual modules of toyota esquire hv and toyota axio hybrids are same or not?
Awesome 👍
hola jose! gracias por tus videos son de mucha ayuda, tengo un 2007 camry hybrid el cual no puedo hacer que funcione correctamente, mi scanner me dice que block 2 y 3 no funcionan, ok, los cambio pero no resolvio el problema, los cambio de nuevo y esta vez remuevo todas las celdas y hago un load test, reemplazo todas las celdas mas bajas, las balanceo, todas marcan 8.2 volts, instalo todo de nuevo asegurando de limpiar terminales,etc nuevas bus bars y tuercas, y resulta que no se resuelve mi problema, uso dr prius y cuando monitoreo la bateria los bloques 2 y 3 suben y bajan en verde pero bajan hasta abajo en rojo, que puedo hacer? la luz roja en el dashboard ahora prende y apaga en intervalos de 10 seguntos mas o menos. gracias por tu ayuda. por cierto mi carro se apaga manejando,y al parecer cuando esta en con los codigos el motor electrico parece no ayudarle al de gas y el carro esta lento, por favor ayuda ya trate varias cosas.
Bien hecho.
I am a little confused when you mesured the individual module voltage dont you need to take the battery off the balancing bar thing and measure it then? Cause it still in parallel dont you get the same voltage anywhere on the line? i feeel stupid all of the sudden.
Awesome, I’m gonna give it a try on my 2007 Prius!
What was the name of that charger?
I think that this is a good way to balance, but if I am going to go through the trouble to have a battery out, I would want to cycle and load test the batteries, specifically checking capacity variance. Part of how they get imbalanced in the first place is internal resistance and ACTUAL capacity variance between each individual cell. That way I can toss out any weak performing cells and get a better net product.
Hi as newbie, i don't understand why you have to balance the modules?
That help to fix a fail module?
Thks
There are 6 cells in one battery module.
With this method, you only equalize the voltage of the batteries.
However, the 6 cells of the battery can have different charges.
Actually, if you charge one or more modules up to about 8.40 volts, and keep them just under 8.40 volts for about 12 hours, this will equalize the 6 cells within the module. When you have 2 or more modules connected in parallel for 12 hours, and apply a trickle charge, this causes a flow of electrons in and out of the modules, similar to waves in the ocean or ripples in a pond. I find keeping the voltage between 8.35 and 8.40 volts works well to restore capacity in older modules. It helps to restore battery resistance too. I have revived some modules that sat around doing nothing for a year using this technique.
@@GaryMarkowski tqvm
Hi Jose, your video very good, Thanks, But I have a question could You tell me where can I buy the Hybrid cell scanner System, because my 2010 Prius the triangle light is on, I test all cell up to 8.2v but the vehicle is running, I quest some Hybrid cell the AMP it's too low,so I hop You could help me and tell me where I can buy this Scanner, Thanks Jose and Thanks Your video, Thank you very much.
Like you video...! Hey Bro... Question if a module when you remove it has 6.7v and you charge it individually with an 8v charger for two days and after that the module returns to 6.7v is it already considered defective? Oh is it possible to revive it with the parallel load as you show here?
as itself its to dead to work in a toyota, i belive the start volts is 7.4+, you can by cells one at a time
Hey I have a question so I do a load test on the hybrid battery pack with some light bulbs and the cells that discharge faster I replace with other cells that hold better and the ones that discharge faster I throw away does this mean the cells are not bad they are just unbalanced
not perfect but will still start car toyota
Do we replace with the orange 🍊 looking (appearing on AliExpress etc) modules/ others or stick with Toyota modules and reconditioning for 2nd 3rd gen? Thanks
Those modules are very bad quality... ☝️🥴😥
I did this balance technique. Does the batteries supposed to get warm?
Nice one brother ❤️
Thank you ☝😎
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics I’m doing this in UK and your Balancing process is good but in the UK everybody is in the rush and I am working on capacity and after the balance the battery in 12 hours
What type of metal was used to mount the battery cells on to balance the batteries? I want to make one and just want to make sure I duplicate it as best I can. Looks like metal rails, nuts, bolts and wood support. Thank you!
Aluminum angles 📐 and make sure to put some good rubber base to the columns… and never use it in a metal tabletop…
Great video. One question, are you familiar with the EnnoCar batteries with the green cells? Are those as good as the original toyota battery packs?
Thank you kyle... those are chinese cheap batteries... they claim a long warranty for the pack but so far had a few customers with some issues... but they will never be like the original Panasonic from japan ☝😎 in quality.
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics thank you for the response. Are they able to be reconditioned/balanced in the similar way you are highlighting?
I am the owner of one and would be interested in doing a reconditioning
@@kyleVmaraj the very same principal... those chinese really need rebalance way much more often...
Just took out a 2007 battery that was "reconditioned, balanced" 3 months ago by a "Prius Battery Specialist". It was failing because balancing is a waste if the Internal Resistance is high on the modules. I picked the lowest IR batteries from my 3 packs and the car drives like new. Voltage is secondary. IR is the most important parameter for series-connected traction batteries.
You mean capacity my good friend...
Only in the "Capacity" to transfer energy. High IR limits the cell transfer, no matter the capacity. One good test is a long hill. The hesitation or bucking that the car exhibits is high IR in at least one cell in a long series of 168 cells.
@@amazoidal yes but it's not that simple... normal IR is between 18 to 25 milliohms... but ist only affected by temperature...
Do you need to mechanically stop the batteries from expanding when balancing? If I have a low SOC cell and a high SOC cell on the mechanical (two bars) balancer, will there be enough current to expand the cells if they are not physically compressed?
Charge them assembled in the frame... let them cool down and then you can balance...
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics А зачем их заряжать если можно отбалансировать поставить на авто и она зарядится
Good
Hi what if we charging from middle of cell/ module will work ?
Would laying a metal coat hanger that you straighten out do the same thing as building a balancer?
Sure… just be careful
Hi is it possible to balance lithium battery on 7 seater Prius Alpha?
Hello sir for battery hybrid it can restore. ?
How many modules are in a Nissan X-trail T32 HV battery?
Very imformative video but quick question do you need to fully charge the modules before balancing them ?.
Yes... ☝😎
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics можно зарядить батарею перед балансировкой на авто".????
Hey Jose do you sell these cells?
hi thank you so much man .
What kind of problems does the car face if the battery is unbalanced ??
Just loss capacity and less fuel efficiency range...
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics
what does mean loss capacity ?
Forgive me for the stupid questions.
I'm trying to start learning the hybrid
The ioniq has a balance energy system inside or is necessary do the same process? If the answer is no, how often is necessary todo? Thanks and excellent videos
Ioniq has a self balancing system... just clean the battery and fan every 2 years...
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics fantastic, thanks.
Jose, what is the full voltage on a battery and a white voltage is supposed to charge it. The reason I ask is because I have 20 complete battery pack and I’m planning on using them as a home battery back up system at 48 V a total of 560 modules
8.2v peak, 7.6v+ constant
6.7v- is "dead" for car , but will still work non car use
This method does charge each battery to same voltage. But, if any cell has less capacity (volume of current capacity) when cells are place in series (as they are in auto battery pack) they will fail to provide as much current as needed to keep up with other higher capacity cells in series battery. This method balances for same voltage but does not sort out cells with different storage capacity.
Charging or discharging has nothing to do with the module's capacity... this is just to rebalance the complete battery pack to restore the overall battery pack's capacity the most it can be...
you do that after check capacity and select the ones to continue the work
you must invert the order of the batterys in the pack
I just want to ask question I am using ultra power up 240ac plus -once recycling three times with 7300mAh they stop over capacitor
Do need recycle again or it’s fully complete
Please give me
Thanks
Lakshman
Its fine... just make sure to balance after ☝😎
Hi.i wondering if you can balance the batteries on the vehicle with a minimum taking apart? Thanks
Fan of your channel you doing a great job 👍
You will have to take apart the busbars to conect the modules in parallel... so ti is way better to take the battery out...
@@hybridsolutiondiagnostics yeah you are Wright. I didn't think it over.
Thanks
when will the reconditioning video come out?
Is there a training course we can take for hybrid vehicle systems?
this guys vids
I I joint 4 cell with different voltage how long its take time?
Hey Champ, when will you be posting the reconditioning video ?
Coming very very soon 👋😎