Argentina: A Journey into Discord | ARTE.tv Documentary
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- čas přidán 15. 01. 2024
- The resounding victory of populist candidate Javier Milei as President of Argentina on 19 November, with almost 56% of the vote, is a worry for many in Argentina and abroad. After Donald Trump and Jair Bolsonaro, another country is tilting towards extremism. Public sector employees, including railway workers are especially concerned as large-scale privatisation is planned.
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Argentina: A Journey into Discord | ARTE.tv Documentary
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Privatization can be good, if done without ideological considerations, by competent technocrats, using considerations from economics only. Typically however the right wants to privatize things that should not be privatized and the left wants to not privatize what should be privatized.
great example of this is japan and horrid example is UK . Privatisation can be good and free up many resources of government but it can devolve into money grubbing fast too.
Argentina is a huge country and some publicly funded infrastructure is needed to keep it together. I visited San Carlos de Bariloche 10 years ago and once outside of town, I say a glimpse of the dire economic situation. The contrast with the verdant landscape across the border in Chile was stark.
It is clear, especially id you live in Latin American countries that there are many public enterprises that really isn’t working well and it feels that the country is getting drag down by those inefficient that is really hard to get away since you would get union riots and opposition. The case of Argentina is that things are getting so bad that they ended up with someone that is willing to take extreme measures.
In Your opinion, specifically, which services should not be privatized?
@@PatJones-jz9rs
All, private is just chaos and expensive as hell. Also it needs billions from the government to no go belly up within a few years.
it feels warmth listening these ordinary people just like talking with neighbours. no lies, they don't have to. it is authentic and informative as well.
I have been to Argentina many times, and I can assure you that the ordinary people, and especially the elderly, represent the best part of the country. This cannot be said of the 'upper class', from whom I have sometimes learned to be wary. I do not want to make a rhetorical assertion, it is what I have experienced first hand.
Not all public services are efficient, nor do all private enterprises are socially responsible。 A successfully run economy needs both sectors full participation in sync to reach growth for the well beings of its population. 🤓
Privatization is done with sufficient Long-due funds. Otherwise, there's no meaning in privatization.
I went to Buenos Aires in 2022 and now again two weeks ago. It is clear the situation has worsened for the common people. And I guess Buenos Aires region is better off than the countryside. What I heard from young Argentinians is a sense of hopelessness , that thing won’t improve and they will be better off in Spain or somewhere else. There is a major brain drain going on there.
I am amazed how the country had a larger GDP than Brazil, my country , even though the population was way smaller, back in the 60s. Brazil chose a path in the 90s that fixed chronic inflation with moderate growth, but didn’t improve inequality enough. I am a bit surprised few Argentinians study the clever solution it’s neighbor implemented in the 90s, instead opting for a shock treatment.
Ecuador dollarised in 2000 to fix the same issues plaguing Argentina. Mieli's policy of dollarising is following a proven solution for Latin America. It also prevents a new government abusing its power to devalue the currency
@@web2yt488 dollarization is a thing that might be good, but a lot of his others policies are terrible
Brazil still has very high inflation. There is a reason that they locked wages on the inflation.
Socialism is not incompatible with the private enterprise. Since the post Second World War until the early 90s the Italian economy was socialist, almost the totality of banks belong directly or undirectly to the State, same thing for most of the big industrial industries; but it was in that period of time that brilliant business men created brands like Armani, Aprilia, Ducati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Cagiva, Malaguti, Valentino, Gucci, Ferrero, Barilla (just few examples); that was possible because the society was rich and could buy the product produced by the industry.
Italy was never socialist,specially not after 1990 when privatization began.Maybe China is more an example of a socialist ruled country with state ownership of key industries and a extensive private economy but it’s arguably more state capitalist.Socialism and capitalism are broadly incompatible,socialism in practice in socialist countries like Soviet Union had laws which made private property and private commerce difficult to near impossible hence why transition to free market was needed.In a socialist economy the state and collective enterprises not only owns the means of production but also has a planned economy these institutions are negations of capitalism where these are owned in majority by private owners and the economy moves via market for profit.
@@mauricio9564 You are confusing Communism with Socialism, these 2 philosofies are not the same. Most of the west European countries, before the collapse of the Soviet Union, have substantially a socialist system. For example, in Italy the IRI (Istituto per La Ricostruzione Industriale) owned most of the biggest companies in Italy, Fincantieri, Poste Italiane, Ansaldo, Alfa Romeo, Aermacchi, Telespazio, Telecom, Otomelara, Panettoni Motta, Gelati Algida, Cirio, and many many factories that now I cannot remember. The State was the owner of almost all the banks; Alitalia belonged to the state; Trenitalia belonged to the State; ENI, ENEL were 100% owned by the State. When I said that until the early 1990s the Italian State used to have the biggest slice of the national economy I am not joking. And that was the most prosper period of time of the national history.
07:37 I am sure that most Argentinians would not look at it this way but it was thanks to the British winning the 1982 Falklands War that the overthrow of the dictatorship of the Military Junta happened and their country returned to democracy for the first time since the 1976 coup d'état.
23:25 7,000 pesos to travel a 1,000 km. No wonder the public trains are in trouble. Similar trip in the U.S. by Amtrak would be 51,000 Argentine Peso.
The problem of Argentina is not privatisation or big government. It is the lack of manufacturing. The only way to reduce the deficit of a country is to manufacture the stuff it is using. Maybe not the whole thing, but even if you contribute to the many components that each stuff contains, that can be exported to the location of final assembly of the product and that would help the country earn dollars. This is what most countries in Latin America with the exception of Mexico and Brazil lack
Argentina's strength is not in manufacturing but exporting goods like soy and meat due to its fields prime to agriculture and cattle. The main problem that hinders that market is the previous decades of government intervention that makes exporting AND importing a pain, with the notion that the country should be closed and self-sufficient (an idea that failed spectacularly) and trying to force the wealth stay inside the country with bandaid policies.
@@hughwotmeight2453 these are low value goods. Exporting these while importing all the electronics, cars, medicines and basically everything is not sustainable in the long run. Exceptionally for a country with a high standard of living. An African country can sustainably rely on exporting low value goods as people are poor so they can't afford the high standard car, electronics and even food. Since Argentina has been a developed country for long the aspirations of it's people are different from Africans. So this high consumption will require a lot of high value import straining the country's dollar reserves.
@@supratikghanti2675 yeah no
Each country should be free to do as it pleases as long as its leaders are democratically elected. There is no moral obligation for a country to be either socialist or capitalist. Each people must be able to find the system that corresponds best to its own genius.
That would preclude that there's such a thing as pragmatism. Other countries, and other people of other countries, and other people within a country are allowed to decide for themselves what that other country is doing might not be the best way possible. Otherwise we'd have to turn a blind eye to what other countries or other people are doing, even when it's blatantly wrong and counterproductive, morally or otherwise.
Don't get me wrong, I am glad they are feeling hopeful and change is also needed. At this point trying anything else could work. Systems ideally need to have the ability to adapt because circumstances change. I wish them luck, and improvements will likely come, especially with foreign capital infusions. It's just that, from an American perspective, we exchanged a better hybrid system starting around 50 years ago for what Melei is wanting to implement, and the free market sold off our economy to China and then sold the products back to us. An extreme market that owns the government and runs it permanently into debt for the sake of for-profit wars hasn't proven such a good idea (not saying that will exactly happen with Argentina). Roughly half our national debt is from the middle east wars, as we squandered our future on the propaganda of the hyper capitalist like Melei. I want to like him, but he's also insulting, and his perspective is devoid of certain perspectives. If and when capitalism runs things into the ground, hybridized market socialism will always be there to reverse the damage to the market and society. History knows this, Milei ought to know this.
I hope it all works out and very quickly for them. But if and when it does, it will make things worse for countries like the US, because the hyper capitalist stranglehold will only tighten.
@@subcitizen2012 You're both confused and overly dramatic. Chill out, man.
Hitler was elected
@@llothar68 so we should abolish elections ? What's your point ?
As we have seen in Australia, where over the last forty years our governments sold everything but the kitchen sink, any privatisation means higher prices and decrease in services.
Privatise at your own risk!
And Australia is still one of the richest countries in the world, with a living standard Argentinians can only dream of.
@@pjacobsen1000 prob up by china the last 30 years.
@@stvdmc2011 Doesn't matter who buys Australian products, as long as someone does. If not China, then someone else. And besides, Australia was already a rich, prosperous society in the 80s, long before China could afford a bowl of rice.
Privatisation isn't a perfect solution, but when compared with the absolute shambles that Argentina has become under State ownership of virtually everything, it's a better option, and by quite some distance. The level of corruption, waste, poverty and decline in Argentina is beyond understanding unless you live here.
They can’t afford things anyways nowadays. So there is not much risk to be honest. It really can’t get worse for them.
Documentario molto interessante
I appreciate the content. Please try to keep the subtitles always on the bottom of the screen. The jumping from bottom to top in this video is distracting and unhelpful.
This is a must be for my country
I find it somewhat telling that Arte at 1655 refers to a fairly ordinary supporter and campaigner for Milei as "militante pro-Milei".....
Is comun in suporters
Argentina was run into the ground in the 1980s, especially with external debt. It was the military junta (1955-73 and 1973-83) that was in charge of Argentina that pushed it into debt. From 1955, Peronists only ruled in the brief period 1973-76. The UCR (the right) ruled from 1983 to 1989, then the Peronists (the left) from 1989-99, then the UCR from 1999-2003 when a series of short-term presidents ruled until the Peronists Kirchners ruled from 2003-2015. Then came Macri, an anti-Peronist from 2015-19, then the Peronist coalition under Fernandez 2019-23, and now anti-Peronist Milei 2023-
Argentina has been paying debt, defaulting, and rolling interest payments into debt since the 1980s, and that debt is now $400 billion. It is a fact that the right-wing governments have added more to this debt because they have always promised (but never kept), as with Milei, an economic program in accordance with the IMF in order to extract funds from banks. While the left has always had a confrontational relationship with the IMF, preventing its access to Western funds.
Argentina spends $29 billion every year servicing its debts, while the government has a budget spend of $97 billion. Meaning 30% of revenue raised is spent on debt.
nada que ver , estudia historia no relatos jil
Javier Milei seems to be an incompetent politician. As a person from Eastern Europe, I see what privatization means. Huge profits, which flow from e.g. from the sale of tap water, electricity, food, etc. are exported abroad. Massive privatization will boost the economy for a while, but the leaked capital will make you a second-rate state.
It won't even boost for long, usually it just gives two or three years of good numbers if you don't look to deep and then it goes down.
He has started to improve Argentina's economy.😊
Depends what you privatize I guess. During socialism we also learnt that everything state-owned is not good either. But I definitely don't support the privatization of public transport as it will lead to line closures and hit the poor (=no car) the worst.
@@hosszu2010
The problem of the Sowjet Union was the same as in the US, hierarchy.
If you put large hierarchies behind something you get a bureaucrat warzone, where everyone over a certain part is fully occupied with screwing others over and avoid any kind of responsibility or decision.
That is what brought the UDSSR and their sub states down, that is what makes western governments ineffective, slow and corrupt and that is also what makes giant corporations useless money wasters.
On the other hand state owned companies often worked well, if there is a sense of duty towards the service added in from the beginning.
And that is what we should try to get back to. Even if it would be a hard way as our society is so insanely radicalised capitalistic.
Poor people of Argentina. The few companies their state still owns will be sold at bargain prices. They will pretty much sell their future with a huge discount.
Absolutely false. They have destroyed their present by having state owned companies.
Those companies are a cost dearly for the people coz are inneficcient. They have many employees who do not work. If privatized and they offer me $1. I be sastified.
@@ivancdluib4678
Well you don't get anything just massive increased price tags for the now much worse service and the right to shut up and take it up your behind for extra billionaire profits.
Good luck, Argentina. Hard times ahead..
Privatization as solution for an economic crisis ? Do people ever learn ?
No , mi country is not so easyJet lean.
@@daotheeternalnamelessbeyon8778 Can you give any example of privatization that was successful in combatting an economic crisis ?
@@plonss Japan, China, South Korea, United Kingdom, Chile
Honesty ! 🤷♂️
Should understand the reasons for the nationalization of those companies first.
There is almost no reason to nationalize a company.
@@christianlibertarian5488
Yes there is, to make it run better and allow it to do it's job, that is also why we did nationalize so much here in Germany, since before that with private business we where a third world country, and now with the fascists and their capitalism striking back, we are falling back down into a third wild country again.
It is kind of funny that after Hitler, we try that private nonsense again here.
Railways are not easy to privatise, privatise the lot and you have a monopoly, If you want companies to compete for routes , they will only compete for certain routes. USAs private passenger railways are lagging behind the railways of most of the advanced nations. The UKs privatisation hasn't been a success , it is expensive for the passenger and still subsidised by the taxpayer. Maybe it could work for rail cargo.
I agree railways are difficult to privatize. But the primary reason is that passenger railway is a money loser. It cannot compete with airplanes and automobiles. It is not a monopoly if you allow these other systems to work.
@@christianlibertarian5488 not everything need to be for profit. Everything that requires giant investment should not get privatized
I totally disagree. Profit/loss is how society determines whether something is worth doing. If people do not find it valuable enough to pay the cost of the entity, that is society as a whole saying, “Not worth it.”@@llothar68
@@llothar68 The railways they were built for companies privated self finacied. After the goberment them naconalizated.
@@christianlibertarian5488
It can but since streets and airports are gifted for free by the government, rail is at an disadvantage.
Make roads private and rail streamrols over cars.
Is this Chanel red?
7:23 that's not true, no es verdad
they show only the Euro invaders. What about the native people?
Hello from Philippines
When you (as a country) hit rock bottom, you have exactly two options: a) disintegrate or b) stabilize your demography as much as you can and develop your economy though captalism and trade, trade, trade.
I am not a fan of Putin but Russia's development from 2000 to 2022 is a good example of option b). This is what Argentina needs to do. Bonus: Argentina has good relations with Europe and India, better than Russia had back in the day.
Good luck.
At least he's honest about wanting to destroy the environment for economic gain.
Nationalize the Resources and Privatize the other Industries. Don't Privatize the Resources...
Privitisation has proved disasterous for Aotearoa NewZealand working class. Electrical generators+++ paid for many times by generations and other assets sold to global❤ corporate capitalists. They demand a profit for life of 5-10% for ever. American coapirate capitalists - oligachs as well as Ruseian, Chinese, Uk and Australian capitalists now own most of the ex publicly owned infrastructure assets in ANZ. Workers are peasants in their ?? own country, now"somebody elses country" - a good book.
It's a global fascist sea change post 1980 gobilization take over, including the government legislature to a huge degree, a shadow of true democracy we never had anyway as a colonial serf nation, podt indigenous maori ownership and a fake treaty in 1840 whilst more British troups were shipped in woth the numerous religious missionairies pedaling their claptrap ideas of, "There will be pie in the sky when you die bs"
people just vote on vibes smh
then they act super confident
We didn't vote on vibes. We voted based on the fact our currency is failing so rapidly that we have to spend it all the moment it lands in our bank because by tomorrow morning, it will be worth less than it was today. And the prices increase daily to counteract that.
Our streets aren't safe. Robbery is a national pastime because people are poor, uneducated, and unemployed. The police force is corrupt. Virtually every industry is controlled by mafias connected to the old government. We have had enough.
It is not hard to define Peronism. It is vote buying.
Argentina , ditto every other country.
Lack of inward investment .
Argentina must convince their international diaspora it is a good time to return with their money.
Ditto Sri Lanka, Nigeria, Zimbabwe ...every other country competes with the US Dollar for investments.
Very cheap asset sales will not work.
Long term fundamental economic policy must be profits.
Ditto for UK economy / Rishi Sunak.
The US economy soaks up investment dollars and pays out consistently attractive returns.
The rest of the world can't / doesn't want to compete.
Argentina has a wonderful chance to shed complete reliance on socialism and adopt mixed approach that enables public-private partnership in various sectors especially public services
😂😂😂
Feodalism man! It rules good and healthy in Argentina! Better be rich or you're less than poor! Obey and respect Maradona the saint and let the rich alone!
Feodalism only works in Agrarian times... Its over now but the people of Argentina's chip in their heads are still in the 1500s.
Christina Kirchner, Argentina's historic leader!? Was that meant to be said about Juan Peron?
I mean, she is pretty historic, for how much she stole, and being convicted for said theft.
How the fuck is he liberal? In what universe?
For Fecks sake you are so lucky to even have a railway system. It's becoming a luxury in some countries
And private companies make sure it will become that in even more countries.
All companies will be sold for one dollar😂
If the company being sold is bankrupt, meaning it has a negative worth, then $1 is actually a good deal for the seller. :)
Definitely not an impartial documentary.
I have to say, the railway workers of Argentina are better dressed and smarter than the UK’s slovenly and educationally challenged railway workers. And the station looked cleaner too.
R
That cost money but there is none in Argentina.
Argentina already privatized in the 90’s and had its worse recession ever how people voted for someone even more pro privatization is beyond me.
A mixture of naivety and despair!!
The problem is not privatisation but an endless string of hugely incompetent corrupt politicians
And the Peronist has ran Argentina to the ground - since Juan Peron. As to how someone would want to vote for another Peronist government is also beyond me.
No altetnative,government control firm is a financial burden .this is why China decided to privatize there SOE.
@@willylao5430 This is not true but has become an internet trope, promoted by Milei. Argentina was run into the ground in the 1980s, especially with external debt. It was the military junta that was in charge of Argentina that pushed it into debt. From 1955, Peronists only ruled in the brief period 1973-76. The UCR ruled from 1983 to 1989, then the Peronists from 1989-99, then the UCR from 1999-2003 when a series of short-term presidents ruled until the Peronists Kirchners ruled from 2003-2015. Then came Macri, an anti-Peronist from 2015-19, then the Peronist coalition under Fernandez 2019-23, and now anti-Peronist Milei 2023-
Argentina has been paying debt, defaulting, and rolling interest payments into debt since the 1980s.
lol six old people in the dining car clapping lets save Argentina's railways and four train workers sitting down in the background chatting. There's your profitability problem. If the national railway is one of the most lucrative enterprises that can be privatized, that's a problem in an of itself. You guys need new businesses and access to credit with big banks handing out money. Need to take a good look at who controls/owns the banks and how they operate. Many businesses in the U.S. use debt regularly since its cheaper than issuing new shares and they get a tax break on their income, if a new business can't get a loan it can't be expected to expand or do anything new. Just don't over lend out of short term greed like the Chinese... set the capital ratios higher than the
U.S. at first and as they show results let them lend more.
The capcity to manage whatever needs to be managed properly, is the most important asset of a society, and privately owned organizations surpass any public entity un this regard...
That's the biggest lie that has been proven wrong time and again, private interests intentionally sabotage public institutions buy them up for pennies to the dollar run things for profit using subsidies and tax breaks. Show me one thing that is run well by private institutions and I'll show you how much they actually take from tax payers. The biggest scam perpetuated the world over
No private only wastes trillions, builds up organized crime and runs everything into the ground, we tried that now for 10.000 years and longer and not one time in history did private business work at all. It just ends always with CEOs that get 6 year olds as sex slaves and the public paying for their asses and trillions in luxury garbage.
Yes Argentina is about to be derailed even further as privatisations, austerity and adopting the US dollar will wreck the economy. If you want full employment then a sovereign currency must be retained and the national government deficit should be increased until full employment by the private and public sectors occurs. US dollar loans for the national government should not have been implemented.
Richest country in the world after 80 years of socialism is very poor. Socialism will destroy even wet dream
Sosialism always leads to poverty for the people.
But is not socialism.
Just like US and the trailer white trash community?
For the rich, yes
Mexico now has a Luxury Tourist train, so should they.
Didnt realise how poor Argentina has become.
Dolalrisarion worker for Equador in 2000, it will work for Argentina. It will prevent future governments from money printing and devaluing the income and savings of working class people.
la ukranizazion de argentina, ya despertar del futbol hermanos
Sadly it's the rusoniazion
If the people voted for him and believe in his decisions, thats all that matters
They don’t believe his decisions, I don’t know who would be, probably not even himself. But Argentina is desperate, so they want change at any cost.
privatizing its good maybe new investors will be attracted just not the natural resources. que viva la libertad carajo!!
What a dumpster fire.
Skype is better
Arte is stupid propaganda
In democracy it means politicians honest...Muhammad prophet of Islam said dont give power to those who seek it.
What went wrong? This pervasive idea that money grows on trees.
In the past, the main investors to Argentina were British banks and corporations who in fact, built the country. No one invests for free. They want a return for their investment. And the people who are put in charge of these companies, are chosen for their ability to achieve this. So these companies that processed the agricultural products, enabled export via docks and facilities built with investment, processing plants, built with investment, railways to transport these goods, built with investment and workers got jobs and everyone became rich to the extent that Argentina became a global economic superpower.
Then along came Juan Peron. The populist. He nationalised those concerns and used the profits to buy favour. He rewrote history to create an external enemy, borrowed fascist propaganda techniques to unify the nation behind him such as the “Malvinas Argentinas” National cause and built a personality cult around himself and his wife.
Now, unless you compensate the share holders who put their cash into these concerns then they’re no longer going to look at this nation as a viable market place to invest their capital but instead, a dangerous risk. You could lose your investment at the whim of a politicians vanity to buy more votes by offering things for “free”. In many instances where the investor isn’t compensated for what they in effect, partly owned, nationalisation is just another form of theft. Peron redistributed the ongoing profits from the seized companies, (some to his cronies and to himself) which in essence, all sounds laudable when disguised as returning the wealth to the workers. But it’s not. Not when there is no longer any wealth being created and all you’re using is the deficit of the little money that’s being returned thus creating an even worse deficit. Giving cash to the populace buys votes but doesn’t buy them and their children, a future. But what about throwing money back into the economy? Reinvesting in new enterprises and concerns? Buying the latest machinery and investing capital back into the company to enable it to expand? Then add to that, the inherent corrupt practices which infests latino culture and enables individual power holders and bureaucrats to want more for their “pension funds” in return for licences or favours. When efficiencies become subservient to cronyism and when it normally takes one individual to complete a task on a factory floor, it employs three because of job creation and protectionism, (commonly known in the English speaking world as “Spanish practices”), it all falls apart. Market forces drive profit and efficiency which create wealth and if fairly distributed as in Japan, wealth for all. Corruption and protectionism which thrives in some government controlled environments, drive deficiencies which cause poverty for all and in some cases, wealth for the few. Then follows political instability. Argentinians have always been at each other’s throats since the nation was formed, with more successive civil wars and internal fractious strife in its short history than many ancient nations have had in their entire existence.
The dictatorships changed nothing but made the economic situation worse. The generals were just as corrupt as the politicians that they replaced and were economically illiterate and inept. All over South America, money was being borrowed from international banks to fund nothing more than vanity projects such as building state of the art space age looking bridges or sky scrapers and to buy second hand weapons to make the nation look more powerful and developed than it actually was. In the mean time, the only way to pay back the lenders, was by borrowing more combined with returning meagre profits from state owned concerns at the expense of the people’s wages. Corruption and the loss of economic strength and printing more money to pay the wages and the creditors, created inflation.
In Argentina? Education is free to university level and available to all which is absolutely fine. But how’s it paid for? How are the lecturers paid? Who pays for the facilities and other costs? By borrowing money that the government doesn’t have and can’t repay. There has to be a point where someone like Milei comes along and says enough is enough (Thatcher did this in 1979) that reality must come to bite the nation and drastic measures have to be endured by all to kick start the economy.
But there is one aspect of Argentinian culture that has to change first. This propensity and admiration for Viveza Criolla.
Ohh yeah free Palestine