Anti-Mormon Comments.. should I look into them? Full Video
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Acquire spiritual knowledge.
Ask in faith, look in an eternal perspective, and seek divinely appointed sources.
Non-members and members can all learn from this. With any question, seek truth.
As soon as someone tells you not to ask a question or investigate something, run away and start asking and investigating. I used to be where you are. Keep going. It's much nicer here in reality.
I've been where you are. My heart goes out to you, genuinely and sincerely.
I have a question for you, and a challenge.
My question: When Emma Smith was struggling with the concept of polygamy that Joseph Smith said he was commanded to practice, why did Heavenly Father tell Emma three times, through Joseph's revelation that He would destroy her if she prevented Joseph from taking plural wives? Why would Heavenly Father not give that very personal revelation directly to Emma through the Holy Ghost?
My challenge: Read D&C 132 from start to finish, realizing that while polygamy is not being practiced in this life, D&C 132 is laying out Joseph Smith's revelation regarding plural marriage in the eternities and that you covenant in the temple to live this celestial law in its entirety.
If you have more questions, I would suggest looking into the plural wives Joseph Smith married before he was martyred. Some of their names are Fanny Alger, Helen Mar Kimball, Zina Huntington Jacobs, Sarah Ann Whitney, Lucy Walker, among others. You may also want to look into the story of a young girl named Nancy Rigdon-she rejected Joseph Smith's marriage proposal, and refused to burn the letter that Joseph himself wrote to her explaining why she should marry him. (That letter has been quoted multiple times in General Conference, even as recently as President Monson before he passed on. The letter has a nickname, it's referred to 'The Happiness Letter', and the first line of it is likely familiar to you. Joseph Smith began the letter with the statement, "Happiness is the object and design of our existence, and will be the end thereof if we pursue the path that leads to it; this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God." I firmly, resolutely believe that every female member of the church deserves the opportunity to read The Happiness Letter in its entirety, with full context of when and why Joseph wrote it.)
I know and understand how deep and significant your faith in the gospel is. If you're like me, your relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ has been a source of strength, confidence, and comfort in your life. I can see how sincerely you believe the gospel.
You deserve to know the complete picture of Joseph Smith Jr's life. You deserve the opportunity to have informed consent when it comes to something as important as the gospel you dedicate your life to.
Friend. You need to ask yourself if the “anti information” is really just information. Praying for you.
I'm LDS, but I ask that you be complexly honest with yourself. Just because there are people who leave the faith, or "anti-material" doesn't mean the faith is wrong. There is Anti against all faiths. The "Anti-Mormonism" is either not true, complete lie, or taken terribly out of context.
@@EthanTheWiseFaith IS absolutely wrong. It stems from control, from being brainwashed and indoctrinated to believe in absolute gibberish. It is very sad.
Context is everything; and those who _hate_ or rebel against God know that not ALL truth can be understood at anytime(Isaiah 28:10), or in other words all truth can't be _DIGESTED_ by everyone all at once, "Milk before meat."(1 Cor. 3:2) The father of lies(John 8:44), knows the "best" lies are veiled in truths(Genesis 3:4-5)... thus Anti- anything that is true, will always follow the same pattern of questioning the _foundations_ of the truth, but probably not the truth itself, in other words- rather than undermine the law/truth, you attack the bearer/witness of the law/truth(Romans 3:23); because truth will be witnessed by the spirit of promise(Ephesians1:13), unless the person is deceived with doubts(John 20:25{24-29}). True doctrine bears *_ALL_* scrutiny(1 Cor. 13:6-7), and the truth of it will be in the fruit(Matt. 7:16-20), does it direct you closer or farther from God? If after all you can do, you still don't know, *_ASK GOD_* and HE will send the spirit to teach you all things... even mysteries for those who ask with all faith without wavering and intent to follow it(James 1:5-6).
That is why dogmas are, and ever will be an abomination(because it leaves God out, because they aren't *_HIS_* doctrines, and instead the wisdom of councils of men are allowed into history and accepted), and why men and women will profess one day, "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:22-29)
Faith in Christ is powerful, and wonderful; but He had and does have a church if the scriptures are true, and it won't be sheep in every direction they choose with the shepherds/thieves that please their itching ears(2 Timothy 4:3-4)... one fold, one shepherd(John 10:16{1-18}).
God is real. Jesus Christ is His Son. They love you, reach out and call to you! Turn away from the world, strip yourself of pride, humble and meek as a child and you will be lead by the hand, and become pure, as Christ is pure, and inherit the Kingdom of God.(Jeremiah 29:12-14, Matt. 18:3-4, 1 John 3:3, Romans 8:17{14-19})
To be deep in history is to cease to be Mormon
LOL No, to be deep in history is to remain a member of the Church. Taking late 2nd or 3rd hand sources as fact and presenting it as a first hand accounts isn't being deep in history. Nor is blatantly misrepresenting what actually happened. Nor is going in with the intention with all Church leaders were evil.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is God's and Jesus Christ one and only true church here on earth. Nothing you all come up with will stand under scrutiny.
@@dylanwilliams2202 You are not debating me, just seething at a straw man haha. Speaking of unreliable sources, Joseph Smith wrote the translation errors of the KJV into the Book of Mormon. The Dead Sea Scrolls match up far better with the modern Christian OT than the JST and BofM variants. Game over. Cope and Seethe.
@@contraheresy _"just seething at a straw man"_ So you admit that you are arguing a strawman? LOL BRUH, at least you admit it.
_"Joseph Smith wrote the translation errors of the KJV into the Book of Mormon"_ No he didn't and any intellectual honest person could debunk it by just comparing Bible translations and/or looking up definitions of words. Game over. Cope and Seethe.
@@dylanwilliams2202 I used to argue like you when I was a teenager. Never bringing any substance, just using a lot of words to say "Nah ah!".
@@contraheresy You mean like what you are doing right now? Lol guess you still haven't grown up from your teenage years then.
Make a real argument. Or don't and we can keep trading insults and I can cure my boredom.
Its not anti mormon
.its pro truth... respect..❤
Caliing it something different. It's how Mormons duck their heads in the sand.
Anti-Mormonism is a joke, it's all debunked. The Church is true.
Galatians is one of my favorite letters from Paul in the New Testament, _"Grace be to you and peace from _*_God the Father,_*_ and from our _*_Lord Jesus Christ,_*_ Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God _*_and_*_ our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."(Gal. 1:3-5)_ Because I find that it contains so much doctrine that is completely overlooked, ignored, and contradicted by most purported followers of Jesus Christs' dogmas, written off as "mysteries," like the Greeks on Mars hill(Acts 17:28-29{22-31}).
Context is everything, and enemies of God love to present things out of context(whether to attempt to justify themselves or deceive others, it is the same); and those who _hate_ or rebel against God know that not ALL truth can be understood at anytime(Isaiah 28:10), or in other words all truth can't be _DIGESTED_ by everyone all at once, "Milk before meat."(1 Cor. 3:2) The father of lies(John 8:44), knows the "best" lies are veiled in truths(Genesis 3:4-5)... thus Anti- anything that is true, will always follow the same pattern of questioning the _foundations_ of the truth, but probably not the truth itself, in other words- rather than undermine the law/truth, you attack the bearer/witness of the law/truth(Romans 3:23); because truth will be witnessed by the spirit of promise(Ephesians1:13), unless the person is deceived with doubts(John 20:25{24-29}). True doctrine bears *_ALL_* scrutiny(1 Cor. 13:6-7), and the truth of it will be in the fruit(Matt. 7:16-20), does it direct you closer or farther from God? If after all you can do, you still don't know, *_ASK GOD_* and HE will send the spirit to teach you all things... even mysteries for those who ask with all faith without wavering and intent to follow it(James 1:5-6).
That is why dogmas are, and ever will be an abomination(because it leaves God out, because they aren't *_HIS_* doctrines, and instead the wisdom of councils of men are allowed into history and accepted), and why men and women will profess one day, "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:22-29)
Faith in Christ is powerful, and wonderful; but He had and does have a church if the scriptures are true, and it won't be sheep in every direction they choose with the shepherds/thieves that please their itching ears(2 Timothy 4:3-4)... one fold, one shepherd(John 10:16{1-18}).
God is real. Jesus Christ is His Son. They love you, reach out and call to you! Turn away from the world, strip yourself of pride, humble and meek as a child and you will be lead by the hand, and become pure, as Christ is pure, and inherit the Kingdom of God.(Jeremiah 29:12-14, Matt. 18:3-4, 1 John 3:3, Romans 8:17{14-19})
To paraphrase Paul:"But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to (Salt Lake) to them which were apostles before me; but I went into (Facebook), and returned again unto (CZcams)...Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Gal. 1:15-17,20)
Said this 100 times...
I was teaching the young men (Aaronic Priesthood) class today and we were talking about Alma 32-34. There is a lot about faith in there and "the experiment" to change our relationship to God and seek answers to spiritual questions.
My advice would be to led the Spirit Guide. Sharing your unique faith on the internet can be hard. You may come in contact with things that surprise you. Things you did not know about. Things that worry you. Things you don't understand. Especially when people who disagree or oppose you begin to push back on your beliefs. Much of what is out there is based on something true. something real, something someone said or did. however, whatever you hear has probably also been obscured through almost 200 years (or longer in some cases) of rumor, misunderstanding, and misinterpretation. Through it all the Holy Spirit will be there to help you know what is True and what is not. That doesn't mean the confusion or uncertainty around some things will go away immediately, but you will know the right direction to go in order to find your answers. If you stay close to the Spirit, He will be the one to teach you how it all fits together.
As someone who went through a similar faith struggle and ended up out of the church, I think it helps to clarify what's more important to you, the truth or your relationship with the church.
If you want the truth than you need to open up to and evaluate all of the information thay exists, positive and negative. Either your beliefs survive that and come out stronger or you end up finding something that is more true than the church.
If you want to maintain your relationship with the church and the gospel then it might not be worth the risk of allowing in challenging information. For a lot of people the church and the gospel is the foundation of who they are as a person and the rationships they have with others. If they end up out of the church it can be hard to build that back up from scratch.
Both paths are valid in their own way, but I ended up on the path for truth and it eventually led me to more meaning, satisfaction, and peace outside the church but it wasnt an easy road. Its definitely not for everyone.
As someone who had a Faith crisis for 2 years and stayed in the church this is the most real comment I've seen in a long time. Personally, I didn't find information for or against the church compelling enough to cause me to stay or leave of themselves. Ultimately I just chose what felt right for me.
@@ijn2252 You get nothing but respect from me. For.me the most important thing is that people are true to themselves and what they feel is right taking in everything they have at hand.
@@loganj7238 Thanks, same to you.
As the First Presidency member J. Reuben Clark said, "If we have the truth, it can not be harmed by an investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed".
A fellow engineer in my office in SLC was determined to convert me. I started asking questions. He asked for my sources. I provided them. He told me the church forbid him to read them.
The church does not forbid us to read any books. We believe in free agency.; The freedom to choose for ourselves. This would be totally contrary to the church’s beliefs.
Hey thank you for sharing this. As a non-LDS christian who has a lot of LDS friends, I understand how difficult it can be for LDS members when people attack their faith out of anger and hate. I'm sorry to hear you've had to go through that.
I've investigated the LDS church personally and while I've found a number of wonderfully kind and loving people within it, there were some things I discovered that troubled me. While I think a lot of the "anti-mormon" content doesn't come from a place of understanding and empathy, I do think there exist some people who don't believe that the church is true that are sincere and aren't acting out of hate. One resource I found trustworthy that influenced my decision to not enter into the LDS church was a book documenting some of the changes that have occurred within the LDS faith and scriptures overtime called "the changing world of Mormonism". It uses primary sources and cites them well so you can fact check what the authors claim. It's available for free online from a Christian group call Utah Lighthouse Ministry.
If you're interested in looking at content that disagrees with the LDS church that doesn't stem from bad faith, I would try giving that book a look.
I know how scary things like this can be, so I'll say a prayer for you right now. Remember that Heavenly Father loves you unconditionally and use that to hold onto the peace and hope of Jesus!
Saints Unscripted has a fabulous series (Faith and Beliefs) that goes over many things that people get stuck on. They include all the sources both positive and negative and add context that is really helpful.
Here are some great, divinely appointed sources to answering questions.
Gospel Topics Essays - www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays?lang=eng
Gospel Topics, Essays, and Other Resources - www.churchofjesuschrist.org/si/objective/doctrinal-mastery/gospel-sources?lang=eng
I like the distinction you make between questions and doubts. Be sure to feed your spirit with truth as you seek answers.
This is really interesting since Mormon Missions usually happen around your age. People finally hit an age where they are less beholden to the community that raised them to get their information from, and then are immediately sent into a situation where information access is gated to exclusively LDS sources for 18 months - and right after the often-traumatizing first temple ceremony, too.
Do your research, and if it only strengthens your faith, great! Maybe you can find security in knowing as much as possible about your church and still maintaining your testimony. Otherwise, be prepared for some hard, hard conversations.
I daydream -What if at my 1st temple ritual & in costume I had said "WTF? This is why they say we're a cult." I then exit Mormons, take my money saved & get a trade rather than be a missionary under strict control of my life for those 2 years.
@@purpl-monkee354hmm interesting day dream haha
I have seen a lot of weird things that Protestants and Catholics wear and carry that have far less meaning and symbolic significance. The temple ceremony is like the parables of Jesus and has a lot of symbolic significance.
@@DarrylDriggs-co8bx Very interesting! If it were like a parable of Jesus, why is it not shared with your children and all the world for us to learn from, like Jesus's parables? Why, unlike Jesus's parables, are the rites conducted in the Temple so sacredly secretive that it's a taboo to discuss them elsewhere, even among practicing, endowed members?
Perhaps not the ideal parallel there.
A few things to point out if you are going to look into questions about the church.
1. You know the church is true.
2. Regardless of what you may discover, always remember that prophets are human beings 1st, and prophets 2nd. And human beings all make mistakes.
3. Your spiritual testimony of the church is more powerful than any worldly accusations you find on the internet
4. All of these accusatory questions have inspired answers
So the prophet can lead people astray and anything they say at anytime could be false?
I took the challenge and never got an answer? What are you suppose to do after that?
@@LogicLord2786 Alma 32: 40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life.
41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life.
-
A constant nourishment of these truths are necessary. Continue to “take the challenge” AKA nourish the tree, and you will receive an answer in God’s timing.
@@marensue so keep trying until I do know it is true?
@@LogicLord2786 I’m not sure what challenge your referring to. I just gave some points that I felt l were good advice for someone who has honest questions and wants to maintain their testimony. But if you have specific questions that you want to respond with I may be able to give a perspective you haven’t heard.
If I were to challenge someone with questions about the church, it would be to familiarize themselves with the Old Testament. Not to a scholarly level or anything like that, but to read through it, and to familiarize themselves with the organized structure of the New Testament Church, and compare the New Testament Church and it’s operation to the Church today. I would also encourage them to ask older members in their ward who they know are well educated in the scriptures and church history about their concerns, and see the answers they get from a Latter Day Saint perspective, and if that’s not enough to put their concerns at ease, I would encourage them to pray about it and earnestly seek for answers as they are guided by the spirit.
Sincere question, what does it mean to say, “I know the Church is true?”
Have you ever noticed that Church leaders acknowledge their own imperfection and that of their predecessors, but no one is actually permitted to speak publicly as to what they believe is one such error?
As you research your questions, keep in mind that sometimes leaders have, indeed, made mistakes, and it is ok view them as such. You are under no obligation to conclude that God truly did inspire polygamy, the race ban, deceptive practices with the SEC or whatever controversial matter you are studying.
If god didn’t say those things to the prophet, does that mean the prophet can lead people astray?
@@shawnbradford2243 I think it’s important not to oversimplify that idea. For example, Pres Nelson has been quite vocal about the name of the Church and avoiding the term Mormon, and even explicitly categorized this shift as a correction. So were Hinckley and Monson in error by their leaning into the nickname or is Nelson in error by his aversion? Would such an error in either direction be considered leading the people astray? Maybe, maybe not.
I think it’s much easier just to note that leaders have been in error from time to time, and that personal conscience and logic/science need to have a seat at the table. These aren’t infallible sources either-but all three need to be held in healthy tensions.
A good example that’s increasingly in the spotlight these days is the race ban. Given that the ban fails the scriptural fruits test, aligns with racist cultural teachings of the day, and has been largely denounced by today’s leaders, I have no reservation in my opinion that the ban and its proclaimed doctrinal basis were the result of human error. Furthermore, as the Church’s position on this fostered widespread racism within the Church I think it’s safe to say that the members were led astray on this matter. At this institutional level this did not have the finality we often ascribe to the idea of being led astray. The Church course corrected in 1978 (albeit imperfectly) and continues to make additional minor corrections.
That error landed differently with different people. Many African Americans have rejected the Church over this, which I completely understand. Likewise, a person who walked away from the love of their life because it crossed a racial boundary at the wrong time is likely to felt more materially led astray than one in who only harbored racist ideas longer than they otherwise would have.
Hopefully the messiness of my response accurately reflects the complexity of really good men making sometimes colossal mistakes.
@@aBrewster29 so they don’t talk to god, they just do what they think best? Anything they say can be false at any point?
@@shawnbradford2243 Alma 26:35 35 Now have we not reason to rejoice? Yea, I say unto you, there never were men that had so great reason to rejoice as we, since the world began; yea, and my joy is carried away, even unto boasting in my God; for he has all power, all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things, and he is a merciful Being, even unto salvation, to those who will repent and believe on his name.
God has all wisdom. Prophets are the mouthpiece of God. Prophets make mistakes. God does not. God understands all that we cannot comprehend leading us to be often confused. That’s why we must be guided by the Holy Ghost to tell us of truth and help us understand the “why”.
@@shawnbradford2243 from the church website: While God’s commandments never change, the world we live in is always changing. Different periods of time have each brought new circumstances and unique challenges. Prophets receive direction from God to help people navigate challenges and situations.
2nd yr of mission, I'd see different faiths with similar spiritual experiences in their denomination. Concerned with Mormon history & LDS systematic control I concentrated my efforts on the lonely & poor as a type of chaplain doing welfare visits, less on converting. I became friendlier & the members noticed my change & referred me to friends to teach but didn't join. 2 yrs later I lost my faith as I realized I had confirmation bias & never got an answer to prayer for a testimony. Hindus, Muslims, Lutherans all have a testimony & verses to back up their claims. I'm ExMo & Skeptic now -No holy books, spirits, demons, or gods -I say, just enjoy life & I promote wellness & happiness for all. Simply be humane.
Culturally "Mormon" is something I've seen a lot through the years, "supposed'ta" missionaries... unfortunately, like many things, faith is not passed on through blood. Truth is something our -souls- human beings yearn for, and purpose; but it can be superseded without much effort at all in our current world... It would be interesting to meet you IRL, because my spidey sense is tingling, and I suspect there is a lot more than a realization about "confirmation bias" that lead you to abandon ALL spiritual belief(probably has a nice figure, with a nose ring, and enjoys mary-jane... if I'm guessing.), and makes me wonder if you ever really let your prayers penetrate the ceiling or if it was to "be seen by men"... but I've seen miracles and it had nothing to do with any books, some I recognized because of my faith, but some I couldn't have mistaken; like a vision of my father dying, miles away, and details I wouldn't have been able to know, literally at the moment it happened, but I don't know if I would have had it if I hadn't been trying to live a good life _for God_ .... but, it's your life, and I hope you can get what you want out of it, and that it was worth it in the end.
I agree that “Hindus,Muslims, Lutherans” etc. religious branches have good words and thoughts. They base their lives on good morals which I value. However, I personally have seen too many good things happen in my life to deny the church of truthfulness and goodness.
I’m glad you are happy at where you are now :)
I agree with Maren. I've received an answer for myself it was true, only after putting all of the promises to the test. I have a testimony of the law of tithing, of Joseph Smith, of the Book of Mormon, and more ONLY because I prayed, searched the scriptures, attended church and the temple, and received answers because of the time and effort I put in to find them. And I'm still finding answers each and every day to questions I have. But that only happens because of the effort I put in.
You have never had a spiritual experience from God like the ancient saints had. The Pentacostals act in unseemly ways and do e embarrassing things, thinking they have the Holy Ghost, when in reality they are entertaining evil spirits ( D&C 50 ). The rest of the Protestants are mainly agnostic when it comes to the Holy Ghost, thinking it is their reasoning skills, conscience, or at best an inspired thought. I applaud all the good and love you bring into the world.
If the message says, "we love Mormons," yet the overall message divides, tears down, or in anyway exhibits anything beyond what Jesus Christ actually said, you probably are seeking the wrong source for truth.
Talk to God.
I had the same question about 6 years ago. I have a friend who left the church because of this stuff. I decided that I wanted to understand him better and to see where he was coming from. I was a little hesitant because the church means a lot to me. I decided to ask God specifically if I should go over all this stuff to see the other side. For me, God gave me a yes. I feel strongly that you should get permission from God about such important things. Well, now I have probably seen all of the anti Stuff and My testimony is now much stronger and deeper! Now, I love to talk about this subject all the time!
If you don't mind me asking, what has convinced you of LDS being the true church, and do you believe that personal experiences can/should supersede what scripture says?
I'm also interested in what the comment you mentioned had said, perhaps you could make a video on it where you go through the sources through a Mormon's lens?
South Park showed us that the Mormons were the right religion.
@@MasterRoshi69 Yep South Park was right !!! 😂😂😂
Yeah I could definitely make another video about it through a “Mormon’s lens” . The comment is on a past reel.
Alma 32: 28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves-It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.
My assurance of the church being true is from nourishing this “seed” that is talked about in the scripture. As I learn more about the church, It has “beginneth to enlarge my soul” and has made me a better person. I feel so blessed to have found the “good seed”.
@@MasterRoshi69haha they know what’s up
I’m just a passing rando with no horse in this race. Your video popped up randomly for me. I’m not Mormon, and what I know about Mormonism largely came from a documentary about Warren Jeffs, where they interviewed a bunch of normal Mormons (for lack of a better way to phrase it) about the difference between what Jeffs was doing and what their religion teaches. But I am someone who enjoys learning about various topics. If the sources seem legitimate (like, not from some crazy dude’s conspiracy blog or something) I don’t see the harm in at least checking them out. Either there’s something to them and you can find out more information, or it’s a bunch of nonsense and you can feel more secure in your beliefs. Either way it’s not a bad outcome. I wish you the best!
Don’t be afraid of sources. If you read a source that appears to distract or contradict your faith, realize there should be many ways to interpret the source.
I'd say always "look into it", but I'll be honest when I say that most seemingly well referenced complaints against our religion aren't up to snuff. Although, I was raised in a really different environment to most Latter-Day Saints, where anti-mormon material was readily available and consumed. My Dad had a collection of the stuff, vintage classics like print issues of the Sunstone magazine, "No Man Knows My History" and "The God Makers" (both VHS and book, I and II). I read "The God Makers II" when I was 9 y/o. I even went with him once to the local Christian bookstore where he picked up some anti-mormon books. My Dad has been a lifelong dedicated member. This stuff never shook him, and so it never shook me. Some of what they said was true, some of it was false, and whole lot of it was truth with a huge helping of spin and emotional manipulation.
If they're referencing scriptures as being wrong....ehhhh....that's like, just they're opinion man. If its historical stuff, we're lucky that the Church itself has the monopoly on the best scholars of Church history. If its doctrine, that's all about worldview and nobody should have the same understanding of doctrine in their 20s as they had as a toddler, always something to learn there. Check out what they have to say, you "might" learn something, but you also might just be very disappointed.
Hey I love that you want to ask questions and want to learn that is so important! I want to share the truth in love so I hope you can take this in a loving way💛
The church that should be joined is a church that preaches the word of God and the gospel (we are sinners that need Jesus Christ to be reconciled to God)
Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God proves true… Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar".
Don’t have a testimony of Joseph Smith. Jesus came into the world and we have everything we need now to know God. We have the full Bible OT & NT which is breathed by God (2 Tim 3:16) Joseph Smith is a man who added to the words of God and is a liar.
I went through a 2 1/2 year Faith crisis before finally deciding to stay in the church. I read everything i could against and in favor of the church's claims on tons and tons of topics. I don't discourage anyone from checking out any good information.
Not that you're asking necessarily, but if it helps i think for me it was helpful to listen to every position, try to be objective, and not try to have an answer one way or another too soon. Its good to dig for answers, but digging deep is the only way to do it well.
At the end of it all I decided all the information I was seeing didn't give me a clear enough answer of whether or not it was true. In the end I just realized I believed it all. My view of the church and the leadership in particular is a lot more complex, but the basic fundamental claims I just believe.
Personally I think at this point of a Lady saying she heard a Voice around the Time I was studying the Book of Mormon talking about my Wife, and I one day having a Family, and another lady having a Vision of my Wife in Heaven with Children. And it was 7 years from when we first visited a Meeting House that our 7th Child with 6 Prior Miscarriages was Born. and she was 7 days from our Marriage anniversary, and 1 Month to the day of our Sealing Anniversary when she was Born and my Wifes water Broke only when I was coming out with the Wheel Chair despite Hours of Agonizing Contractions is not without a sense of Correlation. And the first baby was conceived 7 years ago when we first visited a Meetinghouse for the First time. Its not the most Grandiose, and coolest evidence I have that the Church is True I could go on, but its pretty Awesome to have taken that Leap of Faith as the Spirit was guiding me, and then get promptings to go back, and look at what was happening. And I always felt something when I Heard about, or was around Missionaries, or Church Members. I didn't believe the Book of Mormon was True, but it reminds me of how Patient God is.
I never understood why people thought Mormons weren't Christians until I studied the bible. Now I completely understand. God bless you.
The name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which distinguishes it from man made churches that bear the name of a man or country. Or that preach man made doctrines like predestination, infant baptism, the Trinity which word is not found in the Bible and is a logical fallacy, distracts, that revelations and miracles have ceased, that the pow e r of the Holy Ghost has ceased, and who marry and ordain gays, and refuse to discipline pastors and preachers who commit adultery and who sexually abuse and harass their parishioners. Christ would not recognize changes made by Protestants to His gospel, and would probably be rejected by many of their churches. Our Christ has more grace than the Protestant churches and we see their is a great unfairness how some Protestants believe that those that do not accept Christ in this life go to an endless bell. There are evil men in prison with more grace than that.
Hey there, exmo coming in peace, I left the church about a year ago. I’ll give some unsolicited advice, take it or leave it, doesn’t matter! At the end of the day, you should do what makes your life better.
I was confronted with some facts and sources a year ago. I finally worked up the courage to investigate the church because if the church has the truth, investigation and doubts shouldn’t actually harm your testimony.
I personally would not put evidence/ facts into groups as divine or anti. You can easily look at an “anti” source and seek answers from those sources. You can fact check anti claims yourself, or even ask your bishop questions about your findings. I would suggest not limiting yourself to “church-approved material” because this does not paint a full picture. A common cult tactic (and I’m not saying the church is a cult, but I am criticizing this logic) is to tell people to not seek outside sources. Scientology does this. I think it’s essential to look at a full picture to make informed decisions, not just half.
On another note, looking at the evidences presented shook me and my wife’s faith. We were heartbroken to find we have been mislead by our parents and our church leaders. It broke our trust, and we couldn’t go back. This is going to sound completely different from my first paragraph, but I would suggest not looking into these questions unless you are ready to face some pretty hard hitting facts about the history and the “not so good” things about the church. If it’s working for you, and you truly don’t want to be confronted with a faith crisis, you may want to hold off. If you feel you are ready to face some uncomfortable facts, go for it! I would advise that you look into these things with your spouse, because if someone does have a faith crisis, it can ruin your marriage. I’ve seen it happen. No religious belief should tear apart a healthy loving relationship.
That being said, I was once a person who said I would never leave the church and I know it’s true due to my personal experiences. I know attribute those spiritual experiences to God, whoever God may be, and not to the LDS faith. You can still believe in God/ Christ without religion.
Either way, it shows guts that you are willing to post this. I would say knowledge is power, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
Best of luck to you!
"I personally would not put evidence/ facts into groups as divine or anti. You can easily look at an “anti” source and seek answers from those sources."
The fact is, a great number of facts of early church history that church leaders and scholars were saying 25-30 years ago was "false anti-Mormon propaganda" has recently been admitted to as being true by the church. One huge example being Joseph Smith's folk magic/money digging practices which he engaged in from at least 1820 to 1826. The church also downplayed/suppressed the reports that Smith used a "seer stone in a hat" to pretend to "see" buried items---and that was the same weird, occultic method that he used to pretend to translate the alleged golden plates.
Another huge issue is the details of Smith's polygamy practice. Mormons of past years were taught that Smith only practiced polygamy reluctantly, and that he only plural married a few old spinster women so that they could have a husband in the "celestial kingdom." But the fact is that Smith plural married more than 30 women in just four years, and most of them were his age or younger. Many of those women testified that they had sex with Smith. So those facts put Joseph Smith's character and morality and "plural marriage" in a whole different light.
These issues are two of the most troubling ones that people who leave the church cite among their reasons for leaving.
I just discovered your channel today. Thank you so much for its content. As a 63-year-old, I can say that there is nothing in this life that is as sure as that which has been witness to us by the holy Spirit, and you have stated that beautifully. As you and your husband continue to devote your life to Christ, and listen to the Holy Spirit it only gets better. And while there will be ups and downs, the downs will be swallowed up in Christ if leaned upon.
I was baptized at your age approximately. And those things that I experienced at that time by the holy Spirit are more real now in my life then they were then, and continue to be added upon.
You spoke of being confused in some things. There is none of us that are not. Be not confused as to the source from which you learn.
I would encourage you that in your search for truth as you come to questions or comments that cause you concern and even doubt,do allow them to drive you to your knees relying wholly upon him who is the disseminator of all truth, and gives it out as quickly as we in our progression from Grace to Grace are able to receive it. There is no greater privilege but we have. There is something about being driven to our knees that causes us to pray more earnestly, and that is where we receive those experiences that cannot be taken from us, of which you speak.
@@user-su6vp8rg6r thank you so much for you kind words!
Trust in God and let the Spirit guide you. Don’t get attached to the institution and the leaders(Arm of flesh) read the scriptures. We are conditioned to focus too much on the church and the leaders, that’s not a good thing. Historically institutional church become corrupted, we have that in the scriptures happening many times, religious leaders also become corrupted. What happens in the church is the constant association of God and the church, these are two different things. As I mentioned, let God guide you, there are a lot of things that you need to know. Keep in mind that when God teaches us new things it can cause cognitive dissonance, his ways are not our ways, and new truth can make us uncomfortable, Prophets in the scriptures show us that new knowledge can cause pain, sorrow, sadness, etc. Satan is the one that wants us to feel comfortable and feel good Al the time. God wants us to grow, to learn things as they are, he wants to take us out of our comfort zone and help us grow. Don’t be afraid of truth. I have studied the scriptures for almost 40 years and there’s so much to learn.
Best to you on your search for answers. God be with you.
❤I lost my faith in Mormonism after reading new church published documents (on the official LDS website). See gospel topic essays and new Saints history volumes. I am former missionary and bishop. I was indoctrinated in seminary and through BYU religion classes to believe anything that detracts from official church story was false, of the devil, and apostate. Now I find the church admiting some of the truth and their deceptions. Lying for the Lord is not something Jesus's true church does. Now I am a born again Christian. Research all truth claims even though President Oaks claims research is not the answer. Why be afraid of truth?
Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light. He loves and delights in the truth.
Context is everything; and those who _hate_ or rebel against God know that not ALL truth can be understood at anytime(Isaiah 28:10), or in other words all truth can't be _DIGESTED_ by everyone all at once, "Milk before meat."(1 Cor. 3:2) The father of lies(John 8:44), knows the "best" lies are veiled in truths(Genesis 3:4-5)... thus Anti- anything that is true, will always follow the same pattern of questioning the _foundations_ of the truth, but probably not the truth itself, in other words- rather than undermine the law/truth, you attack the bearer/witness of the law/truth(Romans 3:23); because truth will be witnessed by the spirit of promise(Ephesians1:13), unless the person is deceived with doubts(John 20:25{24-29}). True doctrine bears *_ALL_* scrutiny(1 Cor. 13:6-7), and the truth of it will be in the fruit(Matt. 7:16-20), does it direct you closer or farther from God? If after all you can do, you still don't know, *_ASK GOD_* and HE will send the spirit to teach you all things... even mysteries for those who ask with all faith without wavering and intent to follow it(James 1:5-6).
That is why dogmas are, and ever will be an abomination(because it leaves God out, because they aren't *_HIS_* doctrines, and instead the wisdom of councils of men are allowed into history and accepted), and why men and women will profess one day, "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:22-29)
Faith in Christ is powerful, and wonderful; but He had and does have a church if the scriptures are true, and it won't be sheep in every direction they choose with the shepherds/thieves that please their itching ears(2 Timothy 4:3-4)... one fold, one shepherd(John 10:16{1-18}).
God is real. Jesus Christ is His Son. They love you, reach out and call to you! Turn away from the world, strip yourself of pride, humble and meek as a child and you will be lead by the hand, and become pure, as Christ is pure, and inherit the Kingdom of God.(Jeremiah 29:12-14, Matt. 18:3-4, 1 John 3:3, Romans 8:17{14-19})
@@BlackJacx1repeating that over and over doesn’t change the historical claims of ancient America and Egyptian texts from the Mormon scriptures…..
Praise God for your salvation...
So how do you feel about Peter and him lying and denying that he knew Christ 3 times? Or how do you feel about Paul and who he used to be? How do you feel about Judas? Or King David?
Something you've got to realize is that God never once called anyone who was perfect to be his Prophet/disciple, except Jesus Christ. Every single one made mistakes. Do you know why that is? Why do you think He called Judas as a disciple if He knew what He was going to do? Why do you think He called Peter? I'm very genuinely curious what your answer is.
I'm not excusing what has been done and I 100% agree that things should've been done differently. I really hope repentance was done and that things were made right,, in either this life or the next. However, who are we to tell God who He can and cannot call to do His work? Personally, I've prayed for myself to know if this church is true and I've received my answer. Thus, here I am. And while I have loads of questions to which I am determined to find answers too, I don't let it tear down my Faith but build it even more. I'm consistently finding answers. And although I feel I cannot see the full picture yet, I know that with each answer I get the clearer it's becoming. If I stop now, I'll never know.
The question you need to ask yourself. What is more important. That the church be true or that God is the source of all truth? If it's the later, then your on the right track. If it's the first, then you had better study and find out because you could be following a false gospel?
What if it’s both? If I believe God is the source of all truth, I believe that he will tell me if the church is true.
@marensue I like that answer. Just always place God's truth above that of the church, and you will be fine and will know when it's of God or of man. God bless!
I sometimes look into the anti comments and it helps me learn more and ultimately strengthens my testimony. But I don't recommend it unless you are decent at research because the devil ALWAYS leaves out key facts that usually require additional digging to find
if you look too hard you may learn things you don't want to know
I guarantee you will learn enough to get you running from this church....
Personally I wouldn't bother doing a video about it. Not because questions need answers or concerns need resolutions, it's because if you don't have answers, but only opinions, then it can make the situation worse. Seek the truth to know the truth, not to denounce a lie. If an answer doesn't come don't draw conclusions that you think you know the answer. You have that connection with God, so rely on that. He patient and trusting. Much of the concerns that you mentioned others have pertaining to church leadership and so forth I have gotten answers for, but I don't readily share them because they were for me. When it comes time for me to be vocal about sharing what I received I believe the Lord will let me known. I recommend you just don't push the issue if you're not comfortable or you're doubting. Let the Lord guide you in what needs to be said and not what you want to say.
Hey there, I just wanted to say that if you’re someone who is really interested in truth, please consider this - the one true church really is the Catholic Church. And I know, people have all kinds of opinions of the Catholic Church, many based on misconceptions and misunderstandings. But it really is the Church where the fullness of the Christian faith is found.
At the end of the day it comes down to whose authority are you going to trust to properly interpret scripture?
If you go back in history, the earliest Christians were Catholic. I really hope you come to see this beautiful truth sooner rather than later.
The true church of God is not institutional. Men have corrupted the real definition of Church. They have done that in order to obtain power, control and financial gain. Christ declared that his church is the body of true believers, Joseph Smith taught the to God church means those who repent of their sins and come unto him. The Book of Mormon teaches the same thing, unfortunately religious leaders altered the meaning of church, associating church to an actual institutionalized organization, that’s not what it means to God. You can be a Catholic, a Mormon or any other religious group and be considered part of the church of God as long as you repent of your sins and strive to follow God. You can also be an active member of religious organizations and not be considered part of God’s church if you idolize religious leaders, follow men and don’t do what God expects from you. People idolize religious brands and it’s leaders instead of focusing on God and his teachings. I suggest that people turn their minds and hearts to God and let him guide them.
The church isn’t true you should leave LDS so fast.
You Handled this well! And taught me something new! Thanks!
Anti Mormon? How come anybody who disagrees with your views are anti? Especially when what is said is factual?
Anti= meaning against. I say Anti Mormon because the comment was against Mormon beliefs
@@marensue so you are anti Catholic? And how can historical facts be anti Mormon?
@@shawnbradford2243I’m not afraid of responding, but I’ve seen your comments on this video a lot. I want to give my time and effort in responding to someone that is open minded and willing to discuss.
Anti Catholic meaning against Catholics would seem to be a harsh statement, however, I am not against people of the Catholic faith. I just do not believe in all of the teachings of the Catholic Church. There are many things that are similar and many things that are different. So if I ever talk about beliefs against the catholic faith, yes, it would be “anti-catholic”. I hope that I made sense.
@@shawnbradford2243 which historical facts are you referring to as anti Mormon?
@@marensue yet you say anti Mormon? Isn’t that harsh?
Im brad ive just started with the church of jesus christ of latter day saints and i really do love it very much.❤
John 10:31-37, Psalm 82:6-8, Romans 8:13-19, Genesis 3:4-5, 22, Gallations 1:3-5, ... I could keep going, but I've put the text below.
The Bible is full of amazing truths that are hidden in plain sight, but mere men have papered over and blinded others with their dogmas the plain and simple truths, and driven others to murder, even THE Savior of the world, Jesus Christ... condemned for *blasphemies!* So, are "Christian" denominations really disciples of Jesus Christ the Son of God The Father at all? God bless you.
John 10:31-37 "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
Jesus was referencing Psalm 82:6-8 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Romans 8:13-19 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
Genesis 3:4-5, 22 "4 And the serpent(Satan-Father of Lies) said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die *_(This was the LIE!):_* For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil(Truth that concealed his lie).... And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."
Gallations 1:3-5 "Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Amen.
2:30 "I have a lot of questions, I don't have any doubts". If you heard anyone else say this on any topic, would you say that this was a statement of humility or pride? If the religion works for you, great. Doing the research and discovering the history and evolution of the LDS church (and other churches) can really cause a person to question what they consider "divine truths". You probably don't want to go there, because it's painful to have to change your belief structure due to new and more detailed knowledge and understanding. 4:30 "I'm 20 years old" Ok, so you've lived on your own apart from your parents for 2 years now? Goodness. My advice would be to not look into anything on religion for another 3-5 years until you get your life a little more settled and have the bandwidth to tackle something which is far more complex than you may currently be equipt to deal with. Wishing you all the best in your life journey.
I would recommend listening to the talk I quote it from! It would potentially explain your confusion on doubts.
I personally believe I need religion now at 20 years old more than ever! I have so many huge decisions in my life that will impact my future. I need the guidance of the spirit and Jesus Christ to help me.
With your thought of not wanting to question or go into considering divine truths because it may be painful, I am going to be doing a deeper dive into what I believe. I am not afraid of looking into these things now. I will rely on seeking divine sources, eternal perspective, and looking with faith.
@@marensue Divine Sources is the church's terminology/renaming of "approved sources" from about 2016 on their institute website. i.e. avoiding anything that might challenge the official narriative. If you limit yourself to those sources, you will likely maintain your convictions, which may be the healthiest option for you at this point in your life.
You very well may need religion. You would know much better than I. The LDS faith does a very good job with community which can be essential for a lot of folks.
Some of the best history books are actually written by believing members, but you won't find them on those lists. If you want to read a real history book (by a believing member) who actually discusses history, check out either Mormon Enigma (Emma Smith) or Mormonism in Transition (Thomas Alexander, covering 1890-1930). David O. McKay and the rise of Modern Mormonism (Prince) is also excellent. You don't have to read non-believing perspectives to get a decent overview of church history (even if they're often more accurate), but you do have to get away from the heavily curated materials on the church's website if you want to understand church history. Again - there are good books by believers - but they are generally not sold at Deseret Book.
Once again, I don't necessarily recommend that you study church history or any of these issues because developing a deeper understanding of history may impact your faith and world view, and it can be difficult, time consuming, and painful.
I am not on board with the whole book of Mormon being historical but there was definitely something otherworldly going on with Joseph Smith in my mind. Being anti Mormon is dumb.
@@brycepardoe658 I like this perspective! For sure something was going on with that Joseph guy haha
There is no harm in looking into the other side. Just keep looking at faithful answers as well. If all you do is look at anti stuff, then wondering why you feel so bad, it would be like reading only "fat positive" movements and wondering why you gain weight.
If you could look into heaven for 5 minutes, you would know more about religion than all the books written about it. A child who has 1 answered prayer knows more about God than a man who has 5 theology degrees.
One thing i always appreciated as a former lds, the complete ability to have free agency. Theres the molly mormons of course, but i also tell people they paid our bills and fed us from the bishop store house. Church is more than a correct form of scripture.
After my boss told me he had to have a heart to heart with his bishop over his "green tea addiction" I never questioned the church again.
Green tea is the sin next to murder
Really.....
@@johnrowley310 100% true story.
There was no point in questioning it ever again after hearing that, haha.
@@MasterRoshi69 green tea = divine truth?
Faith is not sincere if it can’t be tested
I agree. Faith is constantly being tested every day.
Read the talk from Neil L. Anderson “Faith Is Not by Chance, but by Choice”. One quote says, “How we live our lives increases or diminishes our faith. Prayer, obedience, honesty, purity of thought and deed, and unselfishness increase faith. Without these, faith diminishes. Why did the Savior say to Peter, “I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not”? Because there is an adversary who delights in destroying our faith! Be relentless in protecting your faith.”
This just shows that as faith is tested, we have to keep putting forth the effort to grow it.
Context is everything; and those who _hate_ or rebel against God know that not ALL truth can be understood at anytime(Isaiah 28:10), or in other words all truth can't be _DIGESTED_ by everyone all at once, "Milk before meat."(1 Cor. 3:2) The father of lies(John 8:44), knows the "best" lies are veiled in truths(Genesis 3:4-5)... thus Anti- anything that is true, will always follow the same pattern of questioning the _foundations_ of the truth, but probably not the truth itself, in other words- rather than undermine the law/truth, you attack the bearer/witness of the law/truth(Romans 3:23); because truth will be witnessed by the spirit of promise(Ephesians1:13), unless the person is deceived with doubts(John 20:25{24-29}). True doctrine bears *_ALL_* scrutiny(1 Cor. 13:6-7), and the truth of it will be in the fruit(Matt. 7:16-20), does it direct you closer or farther from God? If after all you can do, you still don't know, *_ASK GOD_* and HE will send the spirit to teach you all things... even mysteries for those who ask with all faith without wavering and intent to follow it(James 1:5-6).
That is why dogmas are, and ever will be an abomination(because it leaves God out, because they aren't *_HIS_* doctrines, and instead the wisdom of councils of men are allowed into history and accepted), and why men and women will profess one day, "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:22-29)
Faith in Christ is powerful, and wonderful; but He had and does have a church if the scriptures are true, and it won't be sheep in every direction they choose with the shepherds/thieves that please their itching ears(2 Timothy 4:3-4)... one fold, one shepherd(John 10:16{1-18}).
God is real. Jesus Christ is His Son. They love you, reach out and call to you! Turn away from the world, strip yourself of pride, humble and meek as a child and you will be lead by the hand, and become pure, as Christ is pure, and inherit the Kingdom of God.(Jeremiah 29:12-14, Matt. 18:3-4, 1 John 3:3, Romans 8:17{14-19})
If true doctrine bears all scrutiny, why is it that the church prominently displays artwork depicting Joseph Smith sitting at a table translating directly from the gold plates when President Nelson himself confirmed that Joseph Smith's method of translating the Book of Mormon was with a rock in a hat? I was born and raised in the church, and come from pioneer ancestry in Kirkland and Nauvoo, and have never once in my life seen a piece of official LDS artwork depicting Joseph Smith translating with a rock in a hat. Why is that? Does the truth of how Joseph brought forth the Book of Mormon not bear scrutiny? Have you ever seen any official LDS artwork showing Joseph Smith translating in the way that the current prophet says he did? Do you think President Nelson is wrong? If President Nelson is right, then why wouldn't the church want to accurately depict Joseph Smith in the act of translating?
@@amyjudy33 Interesting, I know that he used *TWO* stones in silver bows to translate at the beginning(described by some to be similar to reading glasses; oh, and btw many people also recounted that later in the translation process he didn't need them anymore, because God had sufficiently strengthens his talents as a seer to not require the aid of them anymore, but the translation process happened many places, with different scribes, and circumstances that put the lives of his family and friends in jeopardy many times)... But... So, what you're saying is because artists, *artwork,* doesn't depict something you heard described a certain way... then the doctrines can't be true? Do you not see that you are doing EXACTLY what I said in my comment, rather than discussing the actual doctrines or their fruits, you're attacking the artwork depicting an event that may or may not have even happened the way either of us thinks it did.... or was that the point you were trying to make? (Let's get real cute. There are BILLIONS of people who have lived and died, that believed laws given to a man who said he spoke to a bush that burned but was never consumed was from God.... I literally don't care how weird something might sound, the doctrines are sound; I don't care that our society would have tried to throw them in an insane asylum. Exodus 3:2. OR how about a woman who never had sex, purportedly, but had a son... WHO THEN SHE AFFIRMED HIM WHEN HE SAID HE WAS GOD AND WAS CRUCIFIED BY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVED THE BUSH GUY!?!? LUKE 1:34-38 Taking time to read a book on gold plates in a hat using a stone doesn't really seem too weird, if you look at the grand scheme of things... even if it's true.)
Again, very interesting, but I think ultimately missing the mark... in many ways unfortunately.
We can discuss doctrines if you'd like, but since you already stated outright that you believe no matter what, I don't think there is a point in getting into specific doctrines. I'm not trying to change your mind.
My purpose in bringing up the artwork was to light-heartedly illustrate the tendency of the general authorities to curate and cherry-pick information about gospel doctrine and church history that members are taught. Many faithful members, myself included, feel betrayed and lied to when they learn facts and details about the church's history that leadership goes out of it's way to gloss over or avoid altogether. Truth and honesty are principles I deeply value. I found your point about truth withstanding scrutiny to be amusing because I completely agree with you about it, and the actions of the Brethren demonstrate that they don't agree with you or I. There is an objective lack of factual accounting of the Church's history. (And, preemptively, the lack of information isn't the fault of my parents not instructing me fully or a lack of effort on my part. My parents were very devout and still active, and I completely believed and participated in the gospel. I'm referring specifically to the doctrine that the Prophet and Quorum of the Twelve teach over the pulpit and in the official church lesson manuals.) Information, details, and context regarding history and doctrine are routinely omitted from information Church Leadership presents to faithful Latter Day Saints. Members of the Church do not have informed consent about the religion they dedicate their lives to.
It's fine if you don't believe me, and my purpose in making my comment was, again, to point out discrepancy in a lighthearted way. If being a member of the LDS faith works for you, cool! If believing other religious faiths works for you, cool! It no longer worked for me, and that's cool too.
@@amyjudy33 I agree that as a committed LDS individual I would much rather have been told the truth about Joseph Smith requiring that his followers, while he was alive, participated in ritualistic practices that involved them being naked, chanting, and making blood oaths (he said Jesus’ blood wasn’t enough and we were to spill our own to atone for sins as well.)That pagan history along with the seer stones (which is also pagan,) should be open information to the members. It gives members a more accurate account of what they are getting into. Especially considering this was how the Mormon church was founded and Joseph Smith himself performed these rituals and services.
@@amyjudy33(I apologize for the long reply, I promise I'm wasn't trying to filibuster) I am really sorry you feel you were deceived; I think I know which pictures you were talking about, and those would have been accurate of the translation process near the end of the translation process of the Book of Mormon and JST New Testament; but that sucks that it wasn't clear.
I'm also sorry you seem to misunderstand me, I never said I would "believe no matter what." I was saying that if it's weird how truth was disclosed to me, if the truth is approved by the spirit of promise when I take it to the Lord... *_then I believe it, even if it's the most unlikely or uncomely manner or messenger possible._*(I've learned stuff from crazy homeless people who had truth to share with me... I've taken it, and I cherish it.)
You say you would discuss doctrines, but ostensibly it's not actually the doctrines that you *want* to discuss. You're disappointed and mad at the those that you feel deceived you(Which again, ironically is how people like Saul Alinsky, author of _Rules for Radicals,_ would be to try and destroy the bearer of truth/information's reputation, and avoid engaging the truth/information directly at all) ... I don't know if you even realize you're doing it, or that it was probably done *TO* you, but I've learned to see it, because I've been dealing with people attacking my faith for decades while providing a lively defense of testimonies born and pilloried, and I had a time where some of those who assailed me openly and candidly told me how and why they do what they do.... but, there, I'm doing the same thing by trying to caution you about it; it's really hard to not undermine the messengers; suffice it to say they are varied some good and some evil... it's better to challenge the lies with truth head on, and that's what I try to do, or at least question and have them "show their work" so to speak, and see if I follow their calculation; which often leads back to ad hominem attacks, stoking anger, or unprovided esoteric or gnostic citations.
Like Moroni challenges readers of the Book of Moroni 10:3-34(yes 34)... I try to test everything by the spirit of God who has promised will answer if we wholeheartedly seek wisdom. I think the biggest mistake that early saints(and generational saints, ie _"Utah Mormons"_) made was setting any of the leadership of the church as being too holy to question and test. Because we were cautioned, as I understand that like it says in Doctrine and Covenants 121 When "{leadership} undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, __*_Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man...._* We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion."
I'm sorry that wasn't clear to you growing up, that the Restored Church of Jesus Christ may be a perfect church, but it is full of sand that we call sinful and imperfect people, who are also surrounded by those same jealous and sinful people, inside and outside the Church (which often colors their "historical" accounts as well), but most people don't like to try and undermine the TRUTHS, as I've said, but by literally martyring the messengers in word, deed, and life; so it should be understandable that some thought it better to not address it as transparently as possible, which I think we agree was not the right call for the forging and temper of pure faith. I think that current leadership is trying to grapple with it in a constructive and productive way(And has been most of my life), while allowing people like us the grace and latitude to study for ourselves, and come to a conclusion that is hopefully filled with study and fervent prayer... because Christ doesn't give of a spirit of fear or anger, but we can be disappointed in others, but hopefully never turn on our eternal friend and advocate with the Father....
Jesus Christ.
You thought I might say Joseph Smith there didn't you... it's okay, it's meant to be funny misdirect and true at the same time.
So, Perfect truths can bear all scrutiny, but every messenger is woefully imperfect; Jesus Christ is the only "sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall." Helaman 5:12
Read the Gospel Topics Essays provided by the church.
Did you agree with the horrible racism of msybe 10 prophets??? That was not Christian...❤
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not racist, it's the most inclusive religion. Other faiths have abused "the mark of Cain" to justify racism for hundreds of years. The LDS Church baptized and gave black men the priesthood and treated them with respect.
@@EthanTheWiseI am familiar with LDS doctrine enough to say that I was given the lesson of the mark of Cain in primary and young women’s growing up. Afterwards I had this lesson in seminary and in YSA wards. I was also asked to teach the lesson as a primary school teacher in my adulthood.
What other religions teach this ?
@@EthanTheWiseafter 1978, before then they couldn’t because they had chosen the wrong side. But if they were faithful they became white and delightsome!
@@EthanTheWise Treated them with respect? Are you talking Brigham Young style respect who said it was doctrine that they didnt have the priesthood? Or apostle Mark E Peterson that said that even if they are faithful, they can only be servants in the Celestial kingdom? Most inclusive religion? I have heard a lot of stuff in my day but the apostles of the church have said and supported a lot of racist stuff for decades.
No I did not agree with racism. I agree that God has all knowledge and timing that we may not understand.
Thank you for sharing this short video. Over a period of many years, I've looked into all of the critical arguments that have been leveled against our church and our faith, and have been able to find plausible and satisfactory answers to all of them. However, it takes a fair amount of time and effort to investigate each of them, but fortunately there is a ton of information on each of these topics, both online and in books, from a faithful, scholarly perspective. I always approach any particular criticism by first looking at what faithful scholars have to say about it, while maintaining a great deal of trust and faith in the Lord. Our faith's critics often like to use the 'gishgallop' approach by bringing up whole bunch of critical statements at once, in the hope that one or more of them will 'stick'. The so-called CES letter is an example of this tactic. It's much easier and quicker to find fault with something than it is to present a good defense against the fault(s). I also love Lawrence Corbridge's talk that you mentioned: "Stand Forever".
The church teaches to seek truth. Mormonr and FAIR are great resources to see responses to attacks on the church.
Some people who used to research and write material for FAIR have concluded that Mormonism is false, and have left it. Kerry Shirts was one of FAIR's three co-founders in 1997. About 10 years age, he realized that everything he had been defending for years was all false. Kerry now has a CZcams channel titled The Backyard Professor wherein he discusses Mormon truth claims. I suggest that you check it out.
Having said that, I give credit to FAIR for hosting the text of "The Nauvoo Expositor" on their website. That newspaper was published by church members who opposed Joseph Smith's secret polygamy practice. Because Joseph knew that that knowledge being made public would force him to step down as church president and city mayor, he ordered its printing press destroyed. I suggest that you read that paper.
Look to the right primary sources. Not secondary ones. And don’t believe the apostates, doubters and naysayers - especially the ones who cloak themselves within the church.
So, basically filter out anything that contradicts your belief system. That isn't how research works.
@DaveCM I'm wondering if you know how research works either. Practically all research is bias. No matter what question or hypothesis you come up with, it will basically lead to a bias. You can prove that something is good for you and bad for you all at the same time.
The only way research works is when you keep asking questions and doing experiments that narrow down the truth of what you are looking for. This is why most people don't last long in their convictions. Because they rarely take the time that's necessary to fully investigate every aspect of the thing/idea they're investigating.
My personal experience with this church is that it is true. I've researched a lot of the history and a lot of the Gospel and doctrine. Not only that but I've put the promises from it to the test and have found for myself that it is true. And while there are valid points made by those against it, I have found they mean little to me because those who make those points haven't stayed long enough to experience the same things I have within the church. And how can you prove something you have no experience with?
its a sign of a cult that the organization tells you to trust no source but them.
I'm a Dutch nevermo. From what I understand members of LDS gain their testimony by finding it for themselves. You might want to watch the video Spiritual Witness - here people of all kinds of religions 'bear their testimony'. It makes you realise members of all religions rely on this to come to their faith.
In all my years either as a youth going to various Protestant churches, or listening to numerous radio and TV sermons have I heard any preacher say that they know anything by the e power of the Holy Ghost . Pentecostals act unseemly and do embarrassing things; thinki
ng they have the Holy Ghost, but in reality are entertaining evil spirits. The rest of the Protestants are mainly agnostic when it comes to the Holy Ghost; thinking it it is their reasoning skills, conscience, or at best an inspired thought.
I think it’s good to respond to criticism. Sometimes it shows you a little truth. We each have to realize we’re not experts in these subjects, and that if there is a truth in this life we live, we should be skeptical and seek it out. Study what you believe, or plan on believing. That how you know something is true after all.
Galatians refutes Mormonism. Mormonism teaches a different gospel than salvation by grace through faith. Paul said anyone who preaches another gospel brought by even an angel from heaven is cursed by God.
James IS NOT saying you can question/reject scripture revealed by real prophets and real apostles.
Jeremiah 17:9 says the heart is deceitful above all things. We should not trust our hearts. In Matthew 15:19, Jesus says every wicked thing comes out of our hearts. Trust scripture, God cannot lie.
Rev. 14:6 is Angel Moroni restoring the "everlasting gospel", also Isaiah 29 is The First Vision and Restoration.
Not sure where you found your information @theopneustos but LDS Mormonism teaches a true restored gospel and doctrine with ongoing revelation. The rest of Christianity teaches the dead gospel of Nicaea- a pagan corruption of Christ’s pure gospel and doctrine. Mormonism does teach salvation by grace through faith unto repentance. Most of the rest of Christianity teaches salvation by counterfeit authority- ie priestcraft. That’s wherein the counterfeit messengers and angels lie. That’s the truth.
@@carllundberg7073have you read the Bible without the aid of Mormon doctrine before?
@kittiemarie1235 have you read the Bible without the aid of the creeds?
@@nicholassmith9783 I’ve never read the creeds actually. So yes I have.
And your response my question?
The church is a group of people who claim to follow the gospel of Jesus Christ. The gospel is true. Some of those people in the church claim that you need them and their power in order to live the gospel. That is up to you to find out.
What does a Mormon temple have to do with Jesus???
@@johnrowley310 The temple has EVERYTHING to do with Jesus :)
From the church website: Temples are houses of the Lord, where members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regularly go to worship. Inside these holy buildings, faithful Church members make promises with God, feel His Spirit, and come closer to Him through sacred ceremonies called ordinances.
Hope this helps a bit!
It is best to know the fundamentals of the gospel before delving into mysteries or esoteric topics where there is a lot of speculation. The 1st principle of the gospel is to know that can converse with God ,as one man talks to another. Churches that deny revelation and the power of the Holy Ghost are by definition man made churches. I would know the basics of the gospel very well before delving into science and religion, history, archeology, numerology, eschatology, or study of the rapture or captors or rappers. If one can not receive inspiration and revelation, they are going to get almost everything wrong. Protestants read a scripture with their flawed understanding and admitted lack of revelation, render an opinion; then strangely and oddly attach the word inerrant to it; when it is just their opinion and "private interpretation". My mom used to be Baptist. They have a saying. Give 3 Baptist a scripture to read and you come up with 4-5 opinions. Articles of Faith and Jesus the Christ, both by Talmidge, are both good references and studies I've fundamental doctrines.
I like this thought process. I definitely need to read Jesus the Christ! My husband talks wonders about that book.
You said to look into them. But only from Devine sources . Wait what , you should be able to look into any source
The church website states that Divine sources “include the light of Christ, the Holy Ghost, the scriptures, parents, and Church leaders…”
Yes, any source will give you answers, but divine sources will give you accurate answers that are for you to know for yourself. The Holy Ghost will guide you in any decision or question you have.
I personally don’t believe that going to non-credible sources would be beneficial in learning truths.
Even though they bring sources to their point they will also have their own understanding of these. Just look how so many religions can have different interpretation of the same scriptures in the Bible…
Just like Warren Jeffs.
Beware, Satan wants your soul and will work double time to deceive you. Keep your testimony strong.
Testimony of a lie????
Would you be able to share the “personal experiences that showed you the truth of the church” I’m thinking about leaving my Mormon church because of lack of faith. Your respond would be highly appreciated.
I know the question wasn't directed towards me but I can give you some advice.
Dive into the Book of Mormon. While you read the BoM ask yourself, could a man in his 20s who grew up on a farm really have made this up?
All the other reasons to leave the church seem tiny when you realize that it would be more remarkable than God appearing to a 14 year old if he did make up the whole thing.
Also ask yourself, what if I leave the church and I'm wrong? The answer to that should be terrifying.
Have faith and hope! The answers will come eventually.
@@user-lq1tq7gf5y Ask yourself could a man be a prophet of god while he copulated with 14 year old girls and kept his sex addiction secret from Emma...
David Alexander, Ward Radio and The Stick of Joseph are all places I would go first.
I would love to make a video about it. However, I do believe that they are my personal experiences and some people may denounce it as “not enough evidence” for them.
What are your thoughts about leaving the church? What are you looking for? I know that when I pray everyday, read the scriptures everyday, and go to church every Sunday, I continue to grow my testimony in the church of Jesus Christ.
One example that is evidence I will share with you is my belief in prayer and that God heard my prayers. I taught seminary to high schoolers and wasn’t praying for the students. One was being irreverent and distracting the class from their learning. I began to pray for this student to have peace and to want to learn more on a deeper level. Every time I prayed for this student, they would be amazing in class and really devote their time to learning and asking sincere questions. Some days I would forget to pray for them and those days would be the hardest with them.
This is my personal experience and has fueled my belief in prayer.
They don’t have to be big things.
2 Nephi 28: 30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.
It won’t come all at once. Line upon line.
@@user-lq1tq7gf5y "While you read the BoM ask yourself, could a man in his 20s who grew up on a farm really have made this up?"
A century ago, LDS scholar BH Roberts made an intensive study of the Book of Mormon's origins, and he concluded that Joseph Smith had the talents and the pre-existing source material by which he could write his book.
In addition, the Book of Mormon is full of anachronisms which clearly show that it's a modern-day work. For instance, it says that its characters, living in the Americas 2000 years ago, had domesticated horses, chariots, and forged metal tools and weapons. In actual fact, none of those items existed in the western hemisphere until the Spaniards brought them over in the 1500s.
On top of that, there is no DNA evidence of any Hebrew/Semitic people among native American tribes. According to the Book of Mormon, today's American Indians are supposed to be the descendants of the "Lmanites," but no such "Lamanites" have ever been discovered or identified.
These items are why no non-Mormon scholars have ever accepted the BOM as authentic history. The book is religious fiction.
Convert to Christianity ✝️☦️
She is Christian.
Definitely ill informed, inaccurate, impolite , and shall we say. Un- Christine. The name of the Church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which distinguishes it from man made Protestant churches that bear the name of a man or country. We claim a divine mandate and testify that Christ has appeared to our leaders. No church is more Christine than Christ Church. We do not believe in pernicious doctrines like infant baptism, predestination, and the belief that revelations, miracles, and the visitation of angels has ceased as the Calvanist do. We also do not believe that God sends people like Ann Frank to an endless hell because she was Jewish and died without the gospel. There are evil men in prison who have more grace than that concept of God. No church is more Christine than Christ Church.
We are the quintessential Christian faith, and testify that God and Christ have appeared in this latter days. You read if Christ, but we worship the Living Word who gives us dreams, visions, and manifestations of the power of the Holy Ghost.
Good for you for asking the hard questions to find the truth for yourself. Most ex mormons started out just like you with a strong testimony of the truth of the gospel just to find out that the church has not been as truthful as they need to be about the truth. I had a lot of questions and I started looking for answers in the churches published gospel topic essays. That left me with even more questions.
I strongly believed in a church that doesn't actually exist. The lds church is too good to be true because it is.
You need to ask yourself. If you would still believe even if Joseph Smith was a proven criminal and con man and the method he used to translate the book of Mormon was the same method that he took money from people.
Would you still believe even if you found out he married over 30 women and children including his foster daughters and other men's wives without telling Emma.
Would you still believe in the book of Mormon and pearl of great price even if there was a lot of scientific evidence that proved them to be false.
Would you still believe even if you found out that the current leaders of the church are being dishonest with how tithing dollars are used?
If you would still believe in the church after all those things and it's best not to go down this rabbit hole because ignorance is bliss. But if truth is important to you then you need to do your own research to get the answers to your questions.
I actually really like Mormons lol super nice people and helped me a lot even though I was very upfront about not thinking Smith is a prophet. I've helped out the Mormon church a few times. We just don't agree. I like the way you think, I know you're going to disagree with me in saying Jesus is Christ and the last prophet. That's chill. I do respect your faith though. To be open like that when so many people are going to ridicule and hate. I've felt that. It's hard. If you have any questions of the Bible. My Bible, obviously not yours. I've never read the Book of Mormon but I know a little about it. I'm closer to Catholic than I am Mormon. We all believe in Jesus, but the Trinity is where it gets wonky. Jews just believe in God, some Jews believe in a hell but doesn't really have to be an afterlife, more like you just f'ed up. Muslims who think Allah will just like send you to hell if you don't boat like a slave. And then there are Christian's who believe in eternal life if we put our trust in Christ. Catholics are like "we will defend the road for all, but like we have swords." And Mormons are extremely polite, I don't get it. You're like Canada of religions 😅
Read Jesus’s words in the Bible. It is a wise thing to understand what the Bible says as a solo scripture in itself, and as it’s own doctrine. This means reading it with an open mind and heart and without the use of other scripture or LDS sources. It is a great source of wisdom and truth in my opinion.
In my opinion the benefits are that you gain more knowledge as to the perspective of other people who believe in Christ and believe the Bible to be the word of God.
And of course like all scripture pray on it for the Holy Spirit to testify to you. I wish you the best in your personal growth. 😊
I will note that my personal experience with asking questions in the church got me put in the bishops office a lot. At one point I was asked to leave for disturbing the lessons with my questions. I was a very curious child and bright, so I asked many many questions. Please ask questions but I suggest that you do not discredit sources outside the church simply because you are told to.
I believe God will testify to you through the Bible and the Holy Spirit, so if that is all you are comfortable with doing, then do that first.
Context is everything; and those who _hate_ or rebel against God know that not ALL truth can be understood at anytime(Isaiah 28:10), or in other words all truth can't be _DIGESTED_ by everyone all at once, "Milk before meat."(1 Cor. 3:2) The father of lies(John 8:44), knows the "best" lies are veiled in truths(Genesis 3:4-5)... thus Anti- anything that is true, will always follow the same pattern of questioning the _foundations_ of the truth, but probably not the truth itself, in other words- rather than undermine the law/truth, you attack the bearer/witness of the law/truth(Romans 3:23); because truth will be witnessed by the spirit of promise(Ephesians1:13), unless the person is deceived with doubts(John 20:25{24-29}). True doctrine bears *_ALL_* scrutiny(1 Cor. 13:6-7), and the truth of it will be in the fruit(Matt. 7:16-20), does it direct you closer or farther from God? If after all you can do, you still don't know, *_ASK GOD_* and HE will send the spirit to teach you all things... even mysteries for those who ask with all faith without wavering and intent to follow it(James 1:5-6).
That is why dogmas are, and ever will be an abomination(because it leaves God out, because they aren't *_HIS_* doctrines, and instead the wisdom of councils of men are allowed into history and accepted), and why men and women will profess one day, "'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." (Matt 7:22-29)
Faith in Christ is powerful, and wonderful; but He had and does have a church if the scriptures are true, and it won't be sheep in every direction they choose with the shepherds/thieves that please their itching ears(2 Timothy 4:3-4)... one fold, one shepherd(John 10:16{1-18}).
God is real. Jesus Christ is His Son. They love you, reach out and call to you! Turn away from the world, strip yourself of pride, humble and meek as a child and you will be lead by the hand, and become pure, as Christ is pure, and inherit the Kingdom of God.(Jeremiah 29:12-14, Matt. 18:3-4, 1 John 3:3, Romans 8:17{14-19})
@@BlackJacx1 I have read all of your comments and I am blown away by how well you know the word of God. It is beautiful to see, thank you for sharing!
So blame God..how arroĝant and unchristian of you...sad..😢😢
Nothing wrong with being a Mormon and discussing it. Just don’t claim to be Christian’s because none of you are. Thats the only thing that matters here
What does Christian mean to you? I thought it meant to believe in Christ. Our church’s name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What else is needed to be considered Christian?
@@marensue in order to be a Christian you need to follow Christ and do your best to live a Christlike lifestyle, you need to follow The Bible and no rendition or different books, prayer, fasting, confession, Communion is extremely important, etc…
Mormonism is much like Islam where they took a lot of The Bible and added it to their own book. Thats why it’s not Christianity but its own thing.
@@marensue Following the Jesus of the Bible. Mormons need a better Jesus.
@@johnrowley310I don’t know what you mean. Jesus is Jesus. Same as everyone else’s. No Jesus 2.0 that I know of haha
@@MrMatt531 we got 5/6 of the criteria - minus the extra book :)
I believe that this definition gets confusing to a lot of members because they assume Christianity is only to believe in Christ. But, I can see how our church is a bit different than this definition 👍
Mere men aren't God(s) and Mormons believe a gospel that isn't Christian at all. I tell you this not to be hateful but to warn you that Jesus of the Holy Bible is the only way to the Father. Jesus is King!
I believe Jesus is King! :)
John 10:31-37, Psalm 82:6-8, Romans 8:13-19, Genesis 3:4-5, 22, Gallations 1:3-5, ... I could keep going, but I've put these below.
The Bible is full of amazing truths that are hidden in plain sight, but mere men have papered over and blinded others with their dogmas plain and simple truths, and driven others to murder, even the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ... for blasphemies! So, maybe what you're saying is true because "Christian" denominations aren't really disciples of Jesus Christ the Son of God at all? God bless you.
John 10:31-37 "Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not."
Jesus was referencing Psalm 82:6-8 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
Romans 8:13-19 "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God."
Genesis 3:4-5, 22 "4 And the serpent(Satan-Father of Lies) said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die *_(This was the LIE!):_* For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil(Truth that concealed his lie).... And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken."
Gallations 1:3-5 "Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Amen.
It's hard to let go....But you'll enjoy life without them. It's psychological torture.
Fall in love with the Jesus of the Bible.
We testify that Christ has visited several leaders of His Church, and that angels have restored the authority to baptize and to perform miracles. You read the word of God, but we worship the Living Word and have experiences with Christ through dreams, visions, miracles, and by the power of the HOly Ghost.
@@DarrylDriggs-co8bx that's a drag