The WWI helmets are designed primarily to prevent head wounds from shrapnel raining down from airbursts. The Brits emphasized minimal trench work to ensure that the troops "retained offensive spirit" instead of hunkering down in defense. ...I get the sense that this wasn't even the worst 48hrs of Schofield's war. To me the implication is that this really is kind of an average day in the war.
Great reaction! One of the many excellent things aspects of this film is how it roots very firmly in historical reality. The specific date (April 6) in the opening isn't random, it's immediately before the major Spring 1917 offensive that would collectively be known as the battle of Arras. The Germans, did indeed perform a strategic withdrawal in this sector in the weeks prior to this, allowing them to shorten and strengthen their defensive line. The Germans had a much more defensive doctrine, hence the large underground bunkers, concrete reinforcement, etc. Plus they had also been in those positions for a considerable time. The British, by contrast had been pushing forward to keep up the pressure The water table in that area is high so trenches are a challenge to build and maintain without masses of materiel. Hence the British trenches look ghastly by comparison and the shell craters are filled with water. Schofield is moving northeast towards Arras and once he clears Ecoust and crosses the river, the soil becomes very chalky and well drained. That gorgeous shot of the the 2nd Devons filing into those dry, white trenches is accurate. To give some light (and sympathy) to Cumberbatch's character (Mackenzie), he had reason to believe he had the Germans on the run. As mentioned, the British in that sector were successfully putting pressure on the Germans and once the withdrawal began were able to advance for several miles across a wide front. It would have seemed like the long awaited breakthrough after years of stalemate. Also worth mentioning that Mackenzie would have been a pre-war professional solider and as such would not only have a different mindset than the later volunteers, but would also have been in the thick of it since 1914. He also would have seen most of his old comrades killed or maimed in that period, as well as several drafts of replacements. That's why on reflection I don't think Mark Strong's warning was "he's a bloodthirsty SOB" but rather "he's been through too much."
Thanks for the info. You don't get to learn a lot about the "less popularised" war as most movies/shows choose WW2, and most of what I learnt back in school is forgotten. I wonder why the Germans chose a defensive strategy. Wouldn't building all those things be a waste in energy when the aim is to defeat the enemy. Yeh I see Mackenzie's point. He's almost worn out and has seen this kind of thing already.
@@RamblersInc They were maintaining a defensive posture in this section of France and Flanders but were engaged in offensive action elsewhere. The Western Front stretched from the North Sea to the Swiss border and was a continuous line of engagement. It wasn't trenches and fortifications the whole way, but there was no spot where the Germans and Allies did not have large forces opposite each other. There was also the Eastern Front (like WW2) which was much larger and more open and involved staggering numbers of troops. The Germans also diverted troops to assist the other Central Powers on the Balkans and Italian Fronts. You can't attack everywhere at once, and that section of France and Flanders is a good place to hold. The Germans had overrun nearly all of Belgium and chunks of northern France at the start of the war and for the Allies it was obviously important to drive them out. So, if your enemy is definitely going to attack you in a certain section, why not build up your defenses and let them expend their strength? To return to the strategic withdrawal at the film's beginning, the battles of 1916 (mainly the Somme) had created vulnerable salients along the German defenses. They withdrew from these salients to make their line straighter and shorter, meaning it required fewer divisions to defend. Just as importantly, while they were preparing to withdraw they were able to construct very formidable defense on the new line, with very deep reinforced bunkers, concrete pillboxes and gun emplacements, etc.
The Germans had thought more about defensive trenches before the war broke out, so their field manuals dictated much more solid construction and comfort than the British Army's instructions, with concrete walls and bunkers, and drainage and sewers etc. Giving away his canteen with the milk also means he's dehydrated. He basically hasn't had any thing to drink for a day before he gets to the Devons, and he has to have lost so much in sweat getting there. That's adding to his exhaustion and his delayed reactions, so in the last part he's only got adrenalin left. It makes sense that the colonel would want to attack. The men just do as they're told and get on with life in the trenches, but regimental and battalion commanders know what the bigger plans are, and they want to get on with it because that's their task, to prepare their units and lead the attacks, and they feel the wait because they know what the timetable is, unlike the ordinary soldiers. And in terms of the war being determined by attrition, it was by preparing and executing attacks that the British, primarily, defeated Germany. Attacking the Germans forced the Germans to push reinforcements into sections of the front that the British had prepared to be a killing zone in terms of artillery, mortars, undermining to explode entire sections of the defending trenches, gas warfare, tanks and aerial attacks. In 1917 and 1918, the British were able to attack the Germans with slightly inferior numbers and inflict more casualties on the German defenders that they suffered, at ratios of up to 2:1, whereas the traditional rule is that you need to attack with a 3:1 superiority of numbers to be sure of breaking into a fortified line. It wasn't quite last man standing, but it was the case that countries buckled and had to quit once their total of casualties equalled or exceeded their full army strength, meaning that the survival chance for men who had started the war was down to nil. That's what made the Russian Army ready to desert and mutiny wholesale and make a revolution to end the war in 1917. It was also the stage Germany was at by the winter of 1918, and they also had a revolution, although it was sadly crushed, and that's what really forced Germany to surrender and what ended the war, the German working class starting a socialist revolution. In that sense it was the anti-war left, or even far left depending on your viewpoint, who ultimately saved everyone else.
If they could win with a ratio of 2:1, It's almost like the defensive tactic was the wrong one. Oh, I had no idea there was a revolution in Germany near the end. True, that would have definitely had a hand in ending the war.
I enjoyed that in your intro, you assume everyone knows the movie is about WWI, because it's called 1917. As you guys might say. "Not so fast, mate" Some people are so dense on history they might respond with.... "We had a World War?" 2 of them, you muppet! 😣 WW1 brought us several new terms. It was the first time we had trench warfare with machine guns. So the land between the trenches meant certain death and you did not want to go into it. And so the term...."No Man's Land" was born. Also, and this is hard to fathom, but it's true. The constant shelling between sides would go on forever. It really was a 24-7 thing that could stretch for weeks or even months. That's not an exaggeration, it really was constant. And that is where the term "Shellshocked" was born. Today we call it PTSD. But it comes from men in WW1, who just broke from the CONSTANT shelling. Great reaction. Although, you guys are tougher than me. Not ashamed to say I shed some tears at both Blake's death and telling his brother. Powerful scenes. I can handle the gore, but those scenes broke me😢 BTW, I really enjoy your reactions. Very thoughtful and well done. I wish I could help you out, but I'm a 60 year old retiree, with a limited budget. But, I do always drop a like for your reactions. Best I can do 😜
No way. There are people who don't know WW1 happened? 😂 Ahhhh so that's the birth of shellshock. Makes sense. My god, that's terrifying if you think about it. Just endless shelling. We were so confused for a second. Like....wasn't he the main character? What the hell is going on? Thanks for watching 🙂. A like and the occasional comment is more than enough...even if we've annoyed you 😂
There are cuts obviously (or the film would be 20hrs long). I think the first one was in the trenches when a group of soldiers walked in front of the camera? There was definitely a cut in the brief darkness when they entered the Colin Firth bunker, another when they entered the German underground bunker etc. but there were lots of very long takes also. The "running in no mans land while the soldiers charged" scene was I believe one take and when he bumped into soldiers and got knocked over he had to just pick himself up and keep going? The film was still an amazing piece of work regardless of how many scenes there actually was.
Yes, in that "running in no mans land while the soldiers charged" they actually performed hand-offs of the camera between various camera operators on vehicles, cranes, et cetera, without turning the camera off.
This movie is brilliant on a technical level as well as just being a great movie. It gives you the illusion that it’s one long take even though it’s not. excellent film.
@ 40:40 The brother is played by Richard Madden; he was Rob Stark in Game of Thrones. And his younger brother Blake was played by Dean-Charles Chapman, who was also in Game of Thrones (as Tommen Baratheon).
You guys made one important point: Don't exit cover from the same point twice. Good reaction. It was a bittersweet message that he delivered to Blake's brother. Think of all the scores of anonymous, lost bodies of soldiers whose families would never know where or how their beloved died, who would never get closure. He was able to tell Blake's brother and family that Blake had died nobly, courageously, honorably, in the arms of a friend. In such a war, that is a small but important gift.
I'm not sure you caught this, but there were numerous hidden cuts throughout to make it look like just one long take. Also Blake and his brother were both on Game of Thrones.
Best directed movie, WWI so uncovered in cinema. Cinematic horror. A terrible war of artillery and machine guns ;-(( My grandfather, great aunt and great uncle served. Great aunt was a nursing volunteer near London.
For some historical context the reason the lower ranking officers didn't call off their men is because, well, they couldn't. Command of all armies during WWI was still highly centralized, their orders were binding. Plus they weren't inclined to take the word of some random corporal who just showed up out of nowhere claiming that the attack they were in the process of executing, under the notion that they had the Germans on the run, was called off. I also think Colonel Mackenzie isn't given enough credit. His speech hints at his perspective ("I have heard it all before", "next week command will send a different message"), but if you read about the truly horrific incompetence of commanders in the early war, where sometimes thousands of men would be knowingly sacrificed just for what we would call machismo (the "theory" was to intimidate and demoralize the enemy by showing how committed you were), Mackenzie probably represents the relative minority of competent, aggressive commanders who are just fed up being hamstrung by command. Yes this drives him to make the wrong decision in this instance, and that's why he shows some regret upon learning that it's a trap. And that only deepens his character's hopelessness ("hope is a dangerous thing"), because he realizes that whether he listens to command or not, he and his men are probably screwed.
That's true. Mackenzie's seen this kind of thing before. Which is why he said "next week it'll be a different message". I wish there were more movies/shows on WW1 to show how terrible it was.
The WWI helmets are designed primarily to prevent head wounds from shrapnel raining down from airbursts. The Brits emphasized minimal trench work to ensure that the troops "retained offensive spirit" instead of hunkering down in defense. ...I get the sense that this wasn't even the worst 48hrs of Schofield's war. To me the implication is that this really is kind of an average day in the war.
Ahh ok. Kind of makes sense psychologically.
Yeh this felt normal for him. Just the way it started and finished in a loop. Sad.
Great reaction!
One of the many excellent things aspects of this film is how it roots very firmly in historical reality. The specific date (April 6) in the opening isn't random, it's immediately before the major Spring 1917 offensive that would collectively be known as the battle of Arras. The Germans, did indeed perform a strategic withdrawal in this sector in the weeks prior to this, allowing them to shorten and strengthen their defensive line. The Germans had a much more defensive doctrine, hence the large underground bunkers, concrete reinforcement, etc. Plus they had also been in those positions for a considerable time. The British, by contrast had been pushing forward to keep up the pressure The water table in that area is high so trenches are a challenge to build and maintain without masses of materiel. Hence the British trenches look ghastly by comparison and the shell craters are filled with water. Schofield is moving northeast towards Arras and once he clears Ecoust and crosses the river, the soil becomes very chalky and well drained. That gorgeous shot of the the 2nd Devons filing into those dry, white trenches is accurate.
To give some light (and sympathy) to Cumberbatch's character (Mackenzie), he had reason to believe he had the Germans on the run. As mentioned, the British in that sector were successfully putting pressure on the Germans and once the withdrawal began were able to advance for several miles across a wide front. It would have seemed like the long awaited breakthrough after years of stalemate. Also worth mentioning that Mackenzie would have been a pre-war professional solider and as such would not only have a different mindset than the later volunteers, but would also have been in the thick of it since 1914. He also would have seen most of his old comrades killed or maimed in that period, as well as several drafts of replacements. That's why on reflection I don't think Mark Strong's warning was "he's a bloodthirsty SOB" but rather "he's been through too much."
Thanks for the info. You don't get to learn a lot about the "less popularised" war as most movies/shows choose WW2, and most of what I learnt back in school is forgotten.
I wonder why the Germans chose a defensive strategy. Wouldn't building all those things be a waste in energy when the aim is to defeat the enemy.
Yeh I see Mackenzie's point. He's almost worn out and has seen this kind of thing already.
@@RamblersInc They were maintaining a defensive posture in this section of France and Flanders but were engaged in offensive action elsewhere. The Western Front stretched from the North Sea to the Swiss border and was a continuous line of engagement. It wasn't trenches and fortifications the whole way, but there was no spot where the Germans and Allies did not have large forces opposite each other. There was also the Eastern Front (like WW2) which was much larger and more open and involved staggering numbers of troops. The Germans also diverted troops to assist the other Central Powers on the Balkans and Italian Fronts.
You can't attack everywhere at once, and that section of France and Flanders is a good place to hold. The Germans had overrun nearly all of Belgium and chunks of northern France at the start of the war and for the Allies it was obviously important to drive them out. So, if your enemy is definitely going to attack you in a certain section, why not build up your defenses and let them expend their strength? To return to the strategic withdrawal at the film's beginning, the battles of 1916 (mainly the Somme) had created vulnerable salients along the German defenses. They withdrew from these salients to make their line straighter and shorter, meaning it required fewer divisions to defend. Just as importantly, while they were preparing to withdraw they were able to construct very formidable defense on the new line, with very deep reinforced bunkers, concrete pillboxes and gun emplacements, etc.
Ahhh ok. It makes sense then. You may not have the tools to move forward but can at least hold your position.
Richard Madden had only 1 day available to do his scene. The scene of hearing of his brother's death was the one and only take.
Good acting.
The film ends on Saturday the 7th, Sunday is Easter and Monday my Grandfather goes over the top in the first wave at Vimy. Deas Gu Cath
The Germans had thought more about defensive trenches before the war broke out, so their field manuals dictated much more solid construction and comfort than the British Army's instructions, with concrete walls and bunkers, and drainage and sewers etc.
Giving away his canteen with the milk also means he's dehydrated. He basically hasn't had any thing to drink for a day before he gets to the Devons, and he has to have lost so much in sweat getting there. That's adding to his exhaustion and his delayed reactions, so in the last part he's only got adrenalin left.
It makes sense that the colonel would want to attack. The men just do as they're told and get on with life in the trenches, but regimental and battalion commanders know what the bigger plans are, and they want to get on with it because that's their task, to prepare their units and lead the attacks, and they feel the wait because they know what the timetable is, unlike the ordinary soldiers.
And in terms of the war being determined by attrition, it was by preparing and executing attacks that the British, primarily, defeated Germany. Attacking the Germans forced the Germans to push reinforcements into sections of the front that the British had prepared to be a killing zone in terms of artillery, mortars, undermining to explode entire sections of the defending trenches, gas warfare, tanks and aerial attacks. In 1917 and 1918, the British were able to attack the Germans with slightly inferior numbers and inflict more casualties on the German defenders that they suffered, at ratios of up to 2:1, whereas the traditional rule is that you need to attack with a 3:1 superiority of numbers to be sure of breaking into a fortified line.
It wasn't quite last man standing, but it was the case that countries buckled and had to quit once their total of casualties equalled or exceeded their full army strength, meaning that the survival chance for men who had started the war was down to nil. That's what made the Russian Army ready to desert and mutiny wholesale and make a revolution to end the war in 1917. It was also the stage Germany was at by the winter of 1918, and they also had a revolution, although it was sadly crushed, and that's what really forced Germany to surrender and what ended the war, the German working class starting a socialist revolution. In that sense it was the anti-war left, or even far left depending on your viewpoint, who ultimately saved everyone else.
If they could win with a ratio of 2:1, It's almost like the defensive tactic was the wrong one.
Oh, I had no idea there was a revolution in Germany near the end. True, that would have definitely had a hand in ending the war.
I enjoyed that in your intro, you assume everyone knows the movie is about WWI, because it's called 1917.
As you guys might say. "Not so fast, mate" Some people are so dense on history they might respond with....
"We had a World War?" 2 of them, you muppet! 😣
WW1 brought us several new terms. It was the first time we had trench warfare with machine guns. So the land between the trenches meant certain death and you did not want to go into it. And so the term...."No Man's Land" was born.
Also, and this is hard to fathom, but it's true. The constant shelling between sides would go on forever. It really was a 24-7 thing that could stretch for weeks or even months. That's not an exaggeration, it really was constant. And that is where the term "Shellshocked" was born. Today we call it PTSD. But it comes from men in WW1, who just broke from the CONSTANT shelling.
Great reaction. Although, you guys are tougher than me. Not ashamed to say I shed some tears at both Blake's death and telling his brother. Powerful scenes. I can handle the gore, but those scenes broke me😢
BTW, I really enjoy your reactions. Very thoughtful and well done. I wish I could help you out, but I'm a 60 year old retiree, with a limited budget. But, I do always drop a like for your reactions. Best I can do 😜
No way. There are people who don't know WW1 happened? 😂
Ahhhh so that's the birth of shellshock. Makes sense. My god, that's terrifying if you think about it. Just endless shelling.
We were so confused for a second. Like....wasn't he the main character? What the hell is going on?
Thanks for watching 🙂. A like and the occasional comment is more than enough...even if we've annoyed you 😂
There are cuts obviously (or the film would be 20hrs long).
I think the first one was in the trenches when a group of soldiers walked in front of the camera?
There was definitely a cut in the brief darkness when they entered the Colin Firth bunker, another when they entered the German underground bunker etc. but there were lots of very long takes also.
The "running in no mans land while the soldiers charged" scene was I believe one take and when he bumped into soldiers and got knocked over he had to just pick himself up and keep going?
The film was still an amazing piece of work regardless of how many scenes there actually was.
Yes, in that "running in no mans land while the soldiers charged" they actually performed hand-offs of the camera between various camera operators on vehicles, cranes, et cetera, without turning the camera off.
Entering the bunker was a cut? Daaaammnn. That was good.
I agree. Masterpeice.
The voice you recognized was that of Mark Strong. He was the officer Schofield encountered.
That's the one. So many A-listers in this.
This movie is brilliant on a technical level as well as just being a great movie. It gives you the illusion that it’s one long take even though it’s not. excellent film.
I need to find these cuts now.
@@RamblersIncthere are 34!
There are actually over 30 cuts, but made to look like a long tracking shot.
In the style of Alfred Hitchcock’s Rope
you guys should watch Corridor Crew's VFX video on this where the hidden cuts were discussed.
Oh epic. I love their videos. Video Wizards.
@ 40:40 The brother is played by Richard Madden; he was Rob Stark in Game of Thrones. And his younger brother Blake was played by Dean-Charles Chapman, who was also in Game of Thrones (as Tommen Baratheon).
Robbbbb. How could I forget. Good reminder.
That kid was Tommen? Wow small world.
You guys made one important point: Don't exit cover from the same point twice. Good reaction.
It was a bittersweet message that he delivered to Blake's brother. Think of all the scores of anonymous, lost bodies of soldiers whose families would never know where or how their beloved died, who would never get closure. He was able to tell Blake's brother and family that Blake had died nobly, courageously, honorably, in the arms of a friend. In such a war, that is a small but important gift.
I wonder how many times soldiers would have had to do that for others. Soul sapping.
I'm not sure you caught this, but there were numerous hidden cuts throughout to make it look like just one long take. Also Blake and his brother were both on Game of Thrones.
Oh there were?
Thaaat's where I rememeber him from. Thanks
Best directed movie, WWI so uncovered in cinema. Cinematic horror. A terrible war of artillery and machine guns ;-(( My grandfather, great aunt and great uncle served. Great aunt was a nursing volunteer near London.
Yeh, it sounds horrific. My respect to those who served.
Brill, been a little while since you've reacted to something I've seen 😄
😂
I hope there are a lot more down the line.
For some historical context the reason the lower ranking officers didn't call off their men is because, well, they couldn't. Command of all armies during WWI was still highly centralized, their orders were binding. Plus they weren't inclined to take the word of some random corporal who just showed up out of nowhere claiming that the attack they were in the process of executing, under the notion that they had the Germans on the run, was called off.
I also think Colonel Mackenzie isn't given enough credit. His speech hints at his perspective ("I have heard it all before", "next week command will send a different message"), but if you read about the truly horrific incompetence of commanders in the early war, where sometimes thousands of men would be knowingly sacrificed just for what we would call machismo (the "theory" was to intimidate and demoralize the enemy by showing how committed you were), Mackenzie probably represents the relative minority of competent, aggressive commanders who are just fed up being hamstrung by command. Yes this drives him to make the wrong decision in this instance, and that's why he shows some regret upon learning that it's a trap. And that only deepens his character's hopelessness ("hope is a dangerous thing"), because he realizes that whether he listens to command or not, he and his men are probably screwed.
That's true. Mackenzie's seen this kind of thing before. Which is why he said "next week it'll be a different message".
I wish there were more movies/shows on WW1 to show how terrible it was.
Craziest scene is when he stuffs dirt down the dude's throat!
Same war but wrong movie. You're thinking of All Quiet on the Western Front.
Oops my mistake! sorry
Had me wondering "what the hell did I miss?" 😂
11:39 "He almost did not make it". Well, he amost stabbed his comrade with his bayonet pointing forward
🤣. Completely different movie if that happened.
Love your reviews for a really good series to watch if you have not watched it yet watch the Rambo Movies
We definitely want to get to Rambo at some point.
7:38 fox hole
That's probably the word I meant instead. Cubby hole 🤦♂️🤣
They told them they wouldn't encounter any Germans. Great intel.
🤣
not a true story.
trechSome of the most stupid comments I have heard. A trech is not a wall
Fair point.