Trying out various xc/d skis downhill inbounds: S-bound 98, 112, Madshus Annum, Altai Hok…
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2022
- It all started with a desire to hone my tele turn inbounds, and led to trying to find out which xcd ski was best for the job.
Takeaways I’m processing:
~You don’t need to be some kind of legend to make it down resort groomers on backcountry cross-country skis.
~You probably want to ski a little more cautiously with them, especially if you’re still learning to telemark.
~A bit of powder on a groomer does wonders for this class of ski.
~For low-angled slopes without powder, a skinnier, cambered ski is pretty fun for tele turns.
~For steeper groomers, the skinny, cambered skis might not be forced into turns as quickly as you’d hope - I believe this was the cause behind my one fall of the day. Skis with less camber may be better in this situation as they side-slip (pizza, skid-turn, etc.) more easily.
~These skis more or less perform on downhill groomers as you would predict based on their kick & glide performance on snowmobile tracks.
*Please excuse my puppy being a whiny-butt in the background during my voiceover. - Zábava
I’m a snowboarder who started enjoying backcountry xc exploration on my 98s skis more than ski hills the last few years. I can go stomp around the woods for hours but am windmilling and hacking my way on the steeper bits. Now that I’ve got my kids in ski lessons I was wondering if I could take my xc skis and practice along with them. This video was great to see it can work.
Yeah, you totally can do it. I tried the 98s a bit this winter on groomers with a 3-pin binding and a low plastic boot, and they felt pretty solid. Depending on how focused the lift operators are (or ski patrol), you probably want to have leashes on your skis.
My favorite ski for the closely spaced lodgepole pine forest in the Rockies is the Altai Hoks. The biggest issue I have had with them isl because of the short length they have poor fore and aft stability when skiing down steep slopes. This problem can be solved by using a long single pole called a tiak which can be used as a rudder and a brake.
I have yet to try a tiak; any chance a broomstick would suffice?
I find that the Hoks need a lot of pitch to get moving downhill in deep powder, but maybe I just need to wax up the skins better or something.
@@GoTeleOnTheMountain go cut a birch sapling...
I tried my 98s / Ski March at Winter Park early in the season. Mostly out of control on icy hard pack. Maybe we need some real old school GTS type Tele skis?
Yeah, old school tele skiers made their long skinnies look awesome. I guess we need something stiff and “torsionally rigid” for the hard pack. I’m thinking a Voilé or the Altai Koms to round out the quiver whenever I’m in spending mode again, but who knows when that’ll be.
What kind of bindings/leather boots are you using? Did you use the same bindings/boots on all the skis you tried?
I’ll start with an attempt to remember the boot/binding combos:
Sbound 98; NNN BC; old Alpina boots with plastic cuff and single buckle and laces
Sbound 112; G3 Ascent free pivot; Scarpa T2
Madshus Annum; Voilé 3-pin hardwire; Asolo Extreme (1-buckle and laces)
Altai Hok; 3-pin; Alico Double (a little lower, stiffer leather/sole in the bellows, with no buckle)
Outtabounds Crown 88; 3-pin; Alico Double
After some more experimenting this year, I think plastic boots actually would have helped. I don’t like the feel of the telemark stance as much in plastic boots, but the torsional leverage is obviously better. T2s with 112s was not a winning combo, but I like the T3s alright with the 98s, and I suspect I would like the T2s with the Annums. I have also now tried the Outtabounds Crown skis with NNN BC and Alpina Alaska, and I did not like that nearly as much as when I skied them with 3-pin and Alico Doubles.
Hope my rambling comment contains some kind of insight!
@@GoTeleOnTheMountain Unfortunately it doesn't, but that's my problem!...lol. Thanks for the info, though.
I know I'm sacrificing some performance for feel, but I like leather boots with cable bindings (old school, I know), but I'm not sure what skis to use, like what waist width? I'm not a super powder skier but like to have that option on those certain days. Most of the time I'm on groomers but love the drop-knee tele turn.
Last year I rented some"tele" skis with plastic boots just to see what the state-of-the-art is these days. Boots were so stiff and the skis felt/looked like ironing boards. Even though the turns were quick I felt like I was just along for the ride...I really didn't have to do much and the boots were so uncomfortable I might as well have been wearing regular downhill boots.
I read the local ads for skis/boots and there's so many numbers/models in the descriptions that leave me with a headache. I'm looking for gear I can use on groomers as well as skinning up, and hitting some backcountry terrain. Most of the AT gear I see advertised is super wide waist skis and plastic boots, and combined with the sophisticated bindings, the total weight is about that of a regular Alpine downhill setup.
Anyway, thanks! I'll go back over your answer and look up the numbers/models in detail, headache be damned!
I get your dilemma; I always have to take other people’s reviews/experiences with gear and extrapolate for my skill level and intended uses. But in my opinion, leather boots (which were originally meant for the long, skinny skis of old with touring and downhill in mind) can handle something as wide as the Annum (roughly 80mm in the waist and 110mm in the shovel) on soft snow. For firm snow, the thinner the ski the better if using leathers. I would think a modern (and pricey) ski that could do well in both soft backcountry snow and firm groomed snow and tour well would be the Voilé Objective. That might be the widest I would ever go with leathers, recognizing that it wouldn’t always be the best combination. Thinner than that and you’ll have an easier time putting the ski on edge, but you often end up being forced to choose between a soft-flexing ski for powder or a stiffer ski for groomers.
To summarize, for an all-around ski for leather tele boots, I’d probably look for something in the ballpark of 70-80mm in the waist and 100-110 in the shovel, with a little variance permissible depending on flex of the ski and if I lean more towards powder or groomed snow.
I also have sbound 98, I got for my weight, 178 mm, but it is very hard to turn I feel.
I'm 5'8"
Hmmm, where do you use it? In soft, backcountry snow? I find mine are easy to turn in a few inches of soft snow on top of a firm base. On hard snow, they can get a little harder to control.
Also, if you’re used to downhill skis with a lot of sidecut, they might feel hard to turn by comparison. But for a cross-country ski, they seem to turn well.
The boot/binding connection could be another factor in play.
@@GoTeleOnTheMountain I went to a local golf course, lot of ice. and on downhills with 4 inches of powder base, they are hard. I just need to get used to it.
NNNbc with Alpina Alaska
Which binding on the annum?
In this video, the Annums have a Voilé 3-pin Hardwire binding. I now also have another pair with the Switchback bindings, so I hope to do some comparisons in the future.
@@GoTeleOnTheMountain Good to know. thx. Now I'm using annum with G3 targa and feel like it's too heavy and strong, so wondering which bindings I should try.
@@user-hj9rn1nf6i Nice. I like the 3-pin Hardwire because of the hardwire option, but most of the time I use only the pins, which makes for a nice, light setup. I put the hardwire on upside-down, which allows me to completely remove the heel piece more easily. If I expect to use the heel piece, I secure it behind the heel riser.
Good old 10th Mountain and Molly Mae. Thanks for the video