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Copper chisel against rock | Geologist against myths
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- čas přidán 20. 03. 2021
- Did the Ancient Egyptians have the capability to cut out limestone blocks? Old Kingdom Egyptian craftsmen could only make use of stone and copper tools. But on the Mohs scale the number for copper is 3, meaning it’s a very soft metal.
Can a tool made from a softer metal work harder material? What happens to a copper chisel if you try it on dolomite?
Pavel Selivanov, geologist, lead engineer at the Central Geological Research Institute for Nonferrous and Precious Metals (TsNIGRI) knows the answer.
Filmed on June 17, 2019 at the Dolomite quarry, Dubrovitsy, Moscow region.
We would like to thank @SciTeam, Sergey Kotikov and Sergey Krivopliasov.
Filmed by Alexander Zakharchenko and @Senmuth
Video editing by VItaliy Krauss and the @ScienceVideoLab
English translation: Julie Deshtor aka Genviel (Genviel History Podcast • Genviel History Podcast )
⚠ Eager for more experiments? Become a Patron: / antropogenez_world
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Contact: g_souris@mail.ru
Skype: ya-kudzo
#AncientTechnology #OutofplaceArtifact #ExperimentalArchaeology
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I would prefer hearing you speak your native language and reading english subtitles. It feels more natural to me.
@@fredygump5578 wellcome www.youtube.com/@AntropogenezRu
The comments here are one long ever moving goal-post.
"Okay they did that, but could they do this?"
"Oh, they could? Well what about this."
"I actually never knew that, but what about..."
Lol ok now do it with.....
They are the undisputed champs of logical fallacies.
Ancient high technologies are my guilty pleasure, but your dismantling of UnchratedX and others is great fun to watch, honestly. Too, bad they won't acknowledge you.
I love the mysteries of history, and the possibilities of lost tech, but i have to look at all sides and angles, which i why I am here, and enjoying this side of it, regardless of my own opinions. It isnt good to be stuck in cognitive dissonance. You have to weigh all options and possibilities, otherwise, we'd never learn anything outside of the biased echo chambers.
I too love the idea of alternate histories then what's being pushed on certain subjects. Watched one that shreds Brian Forester the other day and found one about the serapeum that dispels most all the myth, never heard before, was really good.
You think they got dismantled? Not in this video. Your bias was confirmed though. Good times.
@@BillOweninOttawa They have been dismantled by people who can see the processes. Ben offers nothing but naysay.
@@danielpaulson8838 Go carve a granite rock with a copper chisel. Post a video. I have carved stone, but not with copper. This video is just nonsense.
The problem with some people is they hear someone on YT say something and take it as fact. I found myself here because i think we should look at all of the facts before we say "the Egyptians couldn't do that". Well they could. Ah ha ! i hear folk say...the "mohs scale" says not, but they dont really understand it. This dude explained it very well..peace to ya.
man...I'm a stonemason and I can tell you that limestone is a thing, but you simply can't cut granite or basalt with cooper or bronze tools, or to better say, you can, but in a way that is so inefficient that takes so much time and force that is unthinkable.
@@watchit3746 It's a matter of perspective my friend. We live in world driven by money, time constraints, and so on. The Egyptians didn't have a money economy so had all the time in the world to go tap tap tap with a copper, bronze, stone, or flint tool. I like talking to stonemasons, and there is a really cool one on YT called Mike Hadduk. He is 50 year master stonemason who has been to Egypt and demonstrated how these things were done. This channel has vids also that use only period correct methods.
@@dazuk1969 no man, is not perspective, is viability. Tests have been made about this. If you try to cut granite with a bronze/copper saw, even if it is arsenical copper which it's harder, you can make a groove in the stone of a few mm of depth with a week of work...now, considering the number and dimensions of stones used, we can calculate that at that rate of advancment, it would have taken so much time that ancient egyptians would still be cutting nowadays...
Whoever cut those stones used a different method that we don't know yet or we know it but we don't think was possible for them to use.
There are clear sign of fast and advanceed tools, sometimes heat/cold exposure (which we know also roman used to break big blocks of stone to make them break naturally)...but the most unexplainable thing is the smoothnes of surfaces and amount of work.
You could have ten thousand of men at work at the same time, and let's consider you can feed them for years only to build a pyramid, but number doesn't mean quality...and the strange thing is that the older stones are better cut than the newer ones.
I don't think aliens build the pyramids, but for sure it is still a mistery how a bronze age civilization did with no modern tools.
@@watchit3746 You are correct in saying the Egyptians used arsenic (amongst other things) in their copper to make it harder. I also agree there maybe stone cutting techniques that are lost to the sands of time, but it has been proven in dozens of books and practical demonstration they could cut, shape, and polish granite with the tool set in the archaeological record.
The most important thing though, if you have an alternative hypothesis on how these things were done you have to prove it with evidence that supersedes the wealth of evidence we have. You can't just say "that doesn't seem right to me". You have to back it up or nobody will take you seriously.
Lastly, I will be the first person to say "yeah" if you can evidence how these things were done. No "woo woo", no "what I think"...just evidence.
@@dazuk1969 I've no alternative hypothesis, this is the point.
We have simply to admit we don't know yet, because our assumptions based on the ancient tools and techniques we know of collide with practical evidence in too many points, and it takes only one very improbable thing to make all the theory very unlikely.
I can't prove how they've done, because I don't know, but I can tell what they have not done.
It's proven that there are clear sign of fast machine working on some stones still in the quarries and we know for certain that even arsenical copper saws can't cut granite efficiently in the long run, added to the fact that even with modern tools we (I remind you I'm a stonemason) find hard to smooth some kind of hard rocks in such a way to make them perfectly allign nex to one another without mortar and so closely that even a paper struggles to pass through them; plus none have proven the viability of a ramp reaching the height required to build the pyramid in its full, because it takes even more work, time and materials (even if cheaper) to build the ramp itself, whatever the shape you try (spriraling around, bent in half, straight); and a ramp not only needs to be enough strong to sustain the weight of the stones, men, wagons and oxes moved on them, but have to be enough wide to accomodate thousands of men needed to move the stones putting them in place with such precision, which is impossible because of lacking of space going to the ever narrower summit.
That chisel is obviously made from ancient galactic meteorite , don't try to fool us
Its a paid actor
From what I understand an Egyptian blade made of meteorite in a tomb is in fact weaker than other knives.
It's a chisel made out of unicorn horn
The "megalithic explorers" online always conclude that only a civilization with superior technology could have made many ancient stone structures and items .
Have they never tried to chip stone???
I even see people say things like, "it's impossible to carve granite with copper! You need diamond tipped tools to do it! The mohs scale!"
You prove to them that it is absolutely doable with not only copper, but chert/flint, they reply with, "okay, now go build a serapeum! That takes too long!"
You can never win with that level of cognitive dissonance. These guys are demonstrating these techniques, while Brien Forester and the others like him demonstrate nothing. Pointing at statues and saying the Egyptians were primitive thieves who graffitied earlier work isn't a demonstration. It's a grift. How many times is Brien Forester going to post the same exact video for the last 15 years before people start questioning his claims and motive? Tbh, it took me many years to start seeing the cracks in their ridiculous claims.
And it also comes from Chris Dunn, who is completely deceptive with his measurements. It's incredible.
@@BSIII devil is in the details, you can chip those rocks but you can't cut them with enough precision so they fit to the milimeter
@@_warol says who? You? Because YOU can't do it, it's impossible?
@@BSIII its impossible because it has not been done by those tools on this scale
This reminds me of castle Guedelon in France, where they chisel with iron. But even iron wears very quickly against sandstone, so what to do about that? Simply reforge the chisels. The blacksmith is a very important figure for the masons. He reforges and hardens the tips of their chisels daily, ready to be used again. I imagine that copper chisels had to be reforged as well perhaps even more frequently.
Yes. There are accounts as an example from the Valley of the Kings whereby phyles - or teams of workers - had among them = "guardians". Their job was to go around gathering up blunted bronze tools and swapping them out with sharpened ones. Further they were responsible for weighing the tools to insure pilferage of broken bits did not occur since copper was a valuable resource.
So the craftsmen used bronze as we see - yet they also used gneiss stone tools as well. Whereas copper must be mined and processed = stone is largely there for the taken. Flint hardness is on par with granite and flint tools can be fabricated to useful shapes. So what is more plausible is that the Egyptians used gneiss stone tools for most basic quarrying whereas bronze was used for finishing. Stone tools would be cheaper and ubiquitous.
A team of "cutters" might hack out a passage using flint tools followed by another team using bronze ones to square up that tunnel. Then comes the plasterers and finally the artisans who draw the designs and the painters who paint those. These people were not primitives. They were actually highly organized.
@@varyolla435 Cool! Yeah, stone tools being used for the bulk of the work seems logical. Hitting the surface with a lump of hard rock making it slowly crumble away as if hitting it with a hammer. And i imagine copper tools to be very valuable indeed. Thanks for the reply.
@@merlinkater7756 Especially if you form a somewhat point to that lump of rock. I watched a program once whereby 2 female Egyptologists were discussing tombs in the Valley of the Kings. One took a shard of flint and with nothing but her hands she began to hammer on the limestone wall of the valley.
Limestone is not very hard and the wall began to crumble away in small chunks. Mount it to a wooden handle like an axe and a person could hew through the limestone just as easily as with bronze tools. Stone tools would be cheaper than bronze and "cost" was just as much a factor then as today.
@@varyolla435 fascinating!
Also copper is soft enough to be worked cold and actually hardens when worked. So it's a lot less work to reforge a copper chisel compared to an Iron one.
Another thing that isn't considered by pyramidiots is that the limestone quarries have bedding planes. The Egyptians used to separate blocks out along a bedding plane, by driving in wood wedges, and soaking them to expand and split the rock along the bedding plane, which is much easier. That's why the courses on a pyramid are not all the same height, because not all of the limestone beds are the same height.
Thank you
And how were these immense stones( tons and tons) moved.... with wood logs, grease and guys pulling ropes and wood boats down the Nile? Please . Achievement that we could not do today with all of our vaunted technology.
@@tfries1607 average stone on the pyramid weighs 2.5 tons, about 5000 pounds. Your average trailer truck can carry 30-40,000 pounds, 20 tons.
Ancient Egyptians could totally have put them on a cart and hauled them, but they have the nile, cart em over, or roller them over, throw on a boat, there ya go.
Does it take a lot of people pushing and pulling, sure, but that's no barrier, it wouldn't take *that* many.
@@tfries1607 Of course we could build them today. Pretty easily. Have you seen some of the stuff we have built or do you live in a cave?
@@tfries1607 :) Couldnt do, it gets done every single day. Moving the saturn rocket ,2.8 million kilograms (6.2 million pounds)
So you've damaged a rock. Ok, that's possible, great job.
Now actually carve it so it looks as good. I suggest carving one of the roof stones with a concave side, out of rose granite.
Or the one of the granite boxes would be cool
if some scientists with no tool work experience can cut some stones am sure ancient egyptian stone cutting professionals can😁
but...but... ALIENS!!!!!
@@BAmalakas Red herring. Not the topic. Deal with it.
Something something younger dryas something Golbeki Teppe.
@@shaolin1derpalm something something Atlantis something something 12,300 years ago
I would love to see how copper chisel works with granite rock.
It is unlikely. But I can show a copper saw and a copper drill
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths Yep, I would assume probably very badly indeed, but a saw or a drill and a bit of ingenuity might work wonders.
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths
Copper-sawing and drilling only with abrasive sand! Even the far older linear-pottery culture drilled their hammer and axes abrasive but used elderbranches or hollowed bone as drillers. It took 60-80 hours to drill through an amphibolite with thickness of 5cm.
@Scientists against myths
But can you show the mining, smelting, and casting of any ancient copper tool used in Egypt using the same methods they had? Modern copper pipe on a stick is not acceptable science.
@@enduroko_7074 Imagine ammount of copper they needed to cut these blocks, you're grinding softer material with sand. it grinds both materials.
Can you make a smooth square block, equal sides? I'd like to see more than just chipping some rock.
Of course he could. That would just be a more time intensive project that requires more skill. This is just demonstrating that they had tools capable of shaping the stone.
There's more to stone shaping than cutting with chisels and hammer. You can use sand and grit and rub it with a flat surface, like another rock. Just like how you sharpen a knife.
@@MrMementoOri Thank you. So many people here with absolutely no clue about working with stone making absurd claims. They frustrate me to no end.
If you can chip a rock you can make a block out of that rock with enough people or enough time
@WrathMachine give me 100slaves and a month
Now do it with solid granite!
Do you have any idea how many commenters try that same line? Do you know how much granite has been shaped by hand for thousands of years including modern times? Iron and steel are more efficient but not required.
@Eyes_Open really? I didn't know. Please show me the video where they cut 1000 ton granite slab then move it 500 miles with the equipment we're told they had. If you can't stfu
@@brianstantz3457 You don't seem to have a strong grasp of reality. Stone work is not a secret to humans. Thunderstone was heavier than that. Your 500 mile nonsense is a joke since the Nile was used for transport. You will never hear these facts from your sources.
@Eyes_Open Once more you have absolutely no proof. Can you show me a boat that has been found in Egypt that can carry 70 tons? A normal wood boat will have it go through. And the Thunderstone is your example 🤣🤣, think your timelines are really off. Can you show how they moved them through the mountains BEFORE they get to the Nile? Of course not. We are so far beyond "we say this is how so that's how, stop asking questions" since you can offer exactly nothing except your empty words, get lost.
@@brianstantz3457 Why don't you ask the Egyptians why they left records of boats moving obelisks and stone cargo. Why do you invent mountains to cross? Have you actually studied any of this?
Of course a slightly softer material such as copper can indeed fracture between the grains of a stone with a slightly harder yet more porous composition such as Dol./limestone, however bronze esp. ancient bronze will prove useless against granite and especially against metamorphic rocks such as quartzite. Sure hardened steel can do work on these stones but pre/post dynastic Egyptians didn't exactly have tool steel did they.
Even with the possibility of chipping and fracturing your way through to make a useful block, a chisel and stone chipping hammers will not create many of the amazing artifacts that exist. The "Schist Disk" is one such example of a hard yet brittle material being shaped in a way that is impossible by the methods described in this video and on this channel.
@SIGN MAN Private Independent research has yielded so much alternate evidence in recent years that despite the longstanding political academic wardenship of the museum and university networks, true archeological disclosure is imminent.
Time is almost up for major museums to get away with only showing the public an average of approx .2% of their collections.
I believe an end to the monopoly of collective human memory is near.
sand, resin, a stick and patience
@SIGN MAN One day we will find evidence.
But what if they... hit a piece of granite with another piece of granite? Mind=blown
Or that obscure material known as flint, it's only been used by humanity for some 1 or 2 million years at this point.
Also copper can definitely still chip away pieces of granite bit by bit, it just probably would be ineffective and expensive. Even more so bronze.
And the "post dynastic" Egyptians technically also include modern Egyptians (and every Egyptian after Cleopatra), so they do have modern steel tools.
Thank you. I checked your channel out, and you are right, I plan to mention your channel on my next pyramid video, mike
Thank you! Will wait.
Awesome that you 2 are putting your minds together!
Could you make a video how you would recreate the granite coffin of Lahun with tools of the time ?
I have not found a method presented on any channel that could achieve a rectangular inside cut which does not extend through the entirety of the material. Circular holes are easy to achieve with drills but rectangular holes with such precision seem inconceivable.
Nah, I choose to believe you are also wrong. I’m thinking it was exactly like the Flintstones. I pet dinosaur would be awesome.
Mike Haduck couldn’t build a limestone dog house.
also egyptians used Arsenic Copper which is almost as hard as iron
Arsenic copper is 3-3.5 Mohs...can scratch calcite and eventually aragonite. Both minerals mixed together is called limestone. Ordinary steel is pretty soft has 4-4.5 Mohs, 6.5 when hardened an 9 when it's WIDIA tipped.
@@christianultsch7261 u can harden copper too
@@trader2137
www.kupferinstitut.de/kupferwerkstoffe/verarbeitung/waermebehandeln/
Quote: bei Kupferwerkstoffen gibt es keine Härtungseffekte wie bei Stahl, auch nicht bei schnellem Abkühlen
With copper materials there are no hardening effects like with steel, not even with rapid cooling.
@@christianultsch7261 However, arsenic copper is very prone to work hardening and you can get a really hard set of chisels through the use of them. Also you cant harden copper yes, however you can ANNEAL it.
Thanks it used to make me cringe when so called experts said copper couldn't cut stone...
When I was about 8 I made a knife out of some copper roof ties my dad had in his shed... Shhhhh!
And it used to carve on stone walls just dandy
people seem to have forgotten ' what we are...
we can do anything! if we simply make the effort rather than an excuse !
this guy isnt cutting granite, and scratching stone with copper is not cutting it.
@@user-dq7ms8ir4c your optician's obviously still on lockdown
Simply make a copper chisel and see for yourself before making bold false statements friend..
USE common sense..
If copper chisels didn't work
Do ya really think the Smith would have made a second chisel..?
He still leaves out how granite was cut by copper
@@jeffreyprentis go try it
@@user-dq7ms8ir4c czcams.com/video/i8ZHYWle0DE/video.html watch for yourself. The large blocks were not cut out, but quarried. But clearly this video shows you can indeed cut granite with copper, an abrasive and water. All available to ancient Egyptians....so super-tech required.
I believe the conspiracy is that that same chisel worked granite, which is more than twice as hard as dolomite limestone or sandstone. Let's see you make a 20 ton box carve out with copper. I'm dying to see it done.
Well done with the copper cut bore holes.
They did it using nothing but other stones. Check their video list.
They bored holes with bone tools and quartz sand. Sand is rather plentiful in Egypt.
They drilled 2”/50mm per hour.
So one hole per day to 1/2 meter depth in granite. Much faster in softer limestone.
@@allangibson8494 B.S.
@@danseng3747 Look it up - they did it. Sand is a pretty good abrasive - garnet also occurs naturally in Egypt if you want something more abrasive.
Deliberate ignorance isn’t a good look.
@@allangibson8494 the sand does not account for the spiraling striations on the stone. I have looked into it, btw, and there's a couple of dudes who did a little drill hole with copper and a manual spinning device. Maybe I should "look it up" in a MAINSTREAM Journal or something Zawahiri would approve of? No need to insult, it's so infantile. You don't know what I know and I won't claim to know you. The last thing I should do if I want to learn is insult people.
I forgive you
Yes they used copper tools = but they also used gneiss stone tools as well. Man has used flint tools for many thousands of years and flint is Mohs 7 and can be shaped into fairly intricate designs. So while using copper can work to finish a block = using flint shards or dolerite pounders they could cut through the bedrock to form the trenches and rough blocks. Flint shards litter areas of ancient stone quarrying.
Finally driving a line of copper chisels into the bedrock - especially following the natural strata layers - will after a short distance cause the stone to continue to fracture yielding approximate sized chunks which can be levered free. Most of the blocks of the pyramid reflect this technique and were not individually fashioned using copper chisels.
spot on
yeah...but this theory doesn't account for the time and brute force needed to do the task...
@@watchit3746 It required less time than you assume. Also you are the one who fails to account for all variables. There is physical evidence to show the ancient Egyptians employed draft animals the same as others do - even today. An ox can pull more than 2X its body weight and there is evidence playing them at Giza during the period of the pyramids.
As a final thought. Egyptologists have uncovered caches of mummified animals around Saqqara - literally millions of them. That shows whereby the fabrication of votive offerings and burial items = was a huge economy in Egypt. Ergo there would have been tens of thousand employed continuously fabricating statues etc. century after century for everyone and not just the Pharaohs.
You're assuming things were only made to order based upon primitive technology and understanding. Egyptian craftsmen were renown for their ability to work stone. Darius when he conquered Egypt sent Egyptian stonemasons to Persepolis to help build his capital city.
@@varyolla435 man, simply no...
I'm a stonemason myself and a lot of these theories are made by archeologist who don't know anything about building or cutting stones with ancient tools, nor with modern ones.
I've never said egyptians never used animals for work, surely they did, but you are failing to account the fact that Oxes are big and heavy and you have to feed and make them drink well and a lot to make them productive during work; you need thousands of them and must of all you have to maneuver them and the wagons they carry on alleged very stip ramps, which is not simply hard, its sometimes completely impossible.
Of the many models proposed for the construction of the pyramid using ancient methods, none is proven to be viable in so many different ways. And yes, I do count all the variables, unlike those who, for example, propose a ramp without counting how much it would take for the ramp itself and how little room for maneuver to place the blocks there would have been on it.
We simply still don't know how they stack stones so big on one another, with such a precision, cut so smooth and so high, because even for us today would be a challenge and it is not certain that we will be able to achieve an equally precise result, especially without mortar.
@@watchit3746 Imagine that = more poor assumptions. Never saw that coming. lol! As a consolation prize. It is not archeologists who are "winging it" = but you. They work with subject-matter experts to formulate their conclusions. That means such as engineers or geologists et al - hence people who actually do understand working with stone. Dig deeper.
I didn’t see you cut and polish granite with high precision. I’ll wait for that video.
They have videos about cutting and drilling granite. So does Sacred Geometry Decoded channel and he also has granite polishing videos.
@@Eyes_Open post a link because I have looked and can’t find anything close in the videos to what the Egyptians did. Just like this video, he beats on limestone and it shatters but that does not resemble a finished block of limestone. He only proved that you can chisel it to break it.
He is a geologist not a stonemasonry. Guess who had a lot of those because it was the most available and easiest resource to use ? Ancient civilizations !
@@christhomas6419 He proved that he can chisel it to break it and you can't figure out the rest? The issue is that most people don't understand what a mason can do. I would suggest studying that before anything else. And if you want a full size block carved, there are courses you can take which will teach you the techniques required. Flat or curved surfaces, whatever you want.
You stated below that this method wouldn't work vs granite rock but said you could show a drill and saw method - that was two years ago.
Did you attempt but fail in this endeavour?
Appreciate your efforts and expertise, thank you.
But they have other videos showing drill and saw methods in granite.
Great Video as usual. Cant wait for an update on the Vase.
Drilling yet: czcams.com/video/YvbnXKXVnWM/video.html
Just became your patreon supporter, thank you so much, guys, keep up good work!
Now, if you could please go through the full list of questions the alternative historians have compiled, and create something like a miniature reproduction which would have all their complaints addressed, that'd be swell!
Thank you!
They have been addressed...with falsehoods and failed tests. With "interpretations that allow the impossible. That is why the free-for all...NO THEORIES have been provable: academia and alternates are both theories without evidence. That is where rational thought is supposed to come in...and your own eyes. Testing that SHOWS the inadequacy of the claimed processes is being accepted by those without critical thought.
Just became your patreon supporter - English please
@zvast Or just learn a new language...
Don't forget even soft metals can be work hardened. people miss out on that simple fact.
Copper gets work hardened. If you hammer the tip to a point it gets to 130-150 Vickers hardness or at least 40% harder than normal.
Just cut out a granite megalith from a quarry with precision cuttings using the tools you are mentioning.
You just repeat lies
provide evidence that there is precision in the first place.
Then prove that the cutting of a small stock can't be scaled up.
You are arguing against know facts you need to prove your debunked nonsense first.
@@pranays You are ignorant of the Peruvian stone cuttings.
Dude proves the opposite in the video. Egyptologists claim, frequently, that copper chisels were used on the hardest stones, in the hardest areas, to create features and detail. Then you choose the clearly eroded areas to chip away at. A task which you're clearly struggling with at certain parts.
Be smug, you earned it with your knowledge and demonstrations!!
Put in the time to dub English, but all the text is still, what I'm guessing is Cyrillic. Still more informative than anything from unchartedx.
Thank you for your videos! For many people, if they haven’t seen a CZcams video of it, then no one has done the tests. Until you have a CZcams video of building an absolutely perfect in every detail replica of an Egyptian pyramid and/or Machu Pichu... many people will still fall prey to Ancient Alien b.s.. And even then, those whose wealth, reputation and careers depend on selling these myths, will never recant their claims.
He smashed some weak shitty rocks. Nothing to see here.
Why dont you try the same with granite?
What for? Can you understand what you see?
I replaced the rear wheel on my bicycle with a round copper “blade”. I am able to cut granite at a decent rate with foot power and my body weight.
I have been wanting to build a wood and copper saw, that’s powered by a water wheel. With a much bigger blade and weights. This would eliminate all the manual labor, and cutting could be done 24-7. Same would also work for powering drills and lathes.
What do you use for the abrasive?
@@Eyes_Open I first tried some "river" sand from a local creek and mud mixture. I then switched to a fine crushed granite and get better results. I've abandoned the bicycle method and am currently drawing plans for a all wood, water wheel powered saw.
@@ecosphereworld2138 Interesting. Thanks.
You guys should try thermal shock. Ancient people might have built a wall around natural cracks in the stone that they only want to heat up with fire. Then cooled the rock with water. This would make it softer and brittle.
The romans did indeed use fire and water for that. They were very unlikely to be the first or even tenth to do that.
@@peterfireflylund they found ash at egyptian quarries so fire was definitely used
Yes Egypt has PILES of available firewood.
@@projektkobra2247 had* they had, you think the environment was there was the same 5000 years ago
@@johnn3542 -Doubt it...If Egypt HAD more arable land that could support forests, they wouldnt have needed to rely on the inundation.
And yeah its been mostly desert since recorded memory
Dont think anyone questions copper on sandstone. But copper on granite
except they do though. none the less, no one suggested copper chisels on granite, in the case of hard stones - dolomite pounders + abrasives
People underestimate what you can do with 50k slaves over a few centuries……
most underrated comment
But wait, the Egyptians didn't have sunglasses. I demand that you recreate the entire great pyramid with a copper chisel and no sunglasses in order to disprove my baseless claims about ancient Egypt.
And all those times I was using a 20 pound sledge to drive a steel chisel into common concrete... I could have just used a little hammer and copper chisel.
if the point is that 'egyptians' did quary and sculped all those granite blocks with these tools... i think they must at least update the time taken to do that to a generous 20000 years of work.
@@luisfnunes you're basing this on?
@@robsmerkin564 His personal lack of effort at physical labor would be the best guess.
And next thing is telling us the earth is round? Don't waste your time with your science and facts. 😂👌
Bruh you sat in a house typing this on a computer and sent it into the internet, what you think a magical fairy made those things? No, science did.
@@Heartandthehead bro if u couldnt tell he was being sarcastic i feel bad for u !
Gotta be honest, all of that rock looks extremely loose and although dolomite has is very hard on the Moes scale it is also very brittle and cracks very easily, Id like to see you chisel into granite with similar precision as the granite found in ancient Egypt.
Flint
Harder stones actually break easier when chiseling them. So soft tools like copper can chisel hard stone just because of the percussive force. You can explain this stuff, or you can just show it and prove it. I've been applying techniques I've learned in flint knapping to stone shaping and it works. You are just using different tools and different stones, but the process is very similar.
Now make a rounded bottom vase precise enough to balance itself on a glass table, thousands of an inch thin and unequivocally symmetrical
Do you pay for work?
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths You cannot demonstrate it. Nobody can!!!
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths best answer ever. These people have no argument and when you disprove them they quickly go to the old argument of “well since you demonstrated that it can b en chiseled now build the whole pyramid” and think since you cannot do it they proved you wrong. Like pay me 200 million dollars and I’ll gladly do it lol
@@annother3350 Well it would be nice to see some pseudoscience enthusiasts and those making money from it. Put some time effort and money into proving / disproving anything .
But we all know that effort and money spent would only serve to diminish the cash cow from it .
Hence the platform of being adversarial towards science as a tool .
And offering nothing up to improve science , not even giving society what the sci-fi , fantasy genre does . Because it simply seeks to capitalize on the easily duped .
What is to be gained by society putting full faith in an ancient tech that we cannot do now ? What have you gained by it ?
I'm on the fence here....I'm no geologist but that rock looks brittle AF. I think the my issue is with the Serapeum....not sure what kind of granite is used but if you look at the "Bull Coffins", I don't think copper chisels can achieve such detail. So if they used something else for a much harder stone, then why not just use that technique for all stones.
Details? They're boxes, not that precise and not honed.
Abrasives and pounding stones can do that
@@diobrando2160 have you seen the exact precision of the sarapeum?
@@diobrando2160 What details! Show me someone using your techniques mentioned, doing anything remotely close to the Serapeum and I will eat my words. Just recreate a tiny corner piece with the precise attached lid and I'd be happy. Modern machines couldn't even do it efeciently.
@Bringmea Bananaleaf yes. Do some research.
@@canadiangoose6488 By "research" you mean "watch unscientific documentaries that make unsubstantiated claims"
In Egypt they would of had thousands of people working and they would have had people on standby sharpening the chisels every minute all day . Day in day out forever
Yes. The Egyptian government - as well as coincidentally large temples and likely others - maintained castes of professional craftsmen who worked as "salary workers" performing necessary functions for their patron.
They were provided room and board as their pay - and in the case of the supervisory level people they had their own tombs afterwards. Egyptologists have found tombs as an example that might indicate the individual was say _"In charge of the temple singers"_ and so forth.
These professional workers were in the case of the public works projects assisted with seasonal labor via _"the corvee."_ Able-bodied Egyptians worked part of the year on public works. So as you noted there would have been craftsmen fabricating and maintaining tools etc. just as you would have apprentice level artisans and master craftsmen/supervisors.
As 2 examples. In the Valley of the Kings there are partially completed tombs where the walls still show whereby they first laid a grid of ochre paint so as to get correct scale followed by someone drawing the designs to be painted on the wall ------> and then a supervisor went behind them to make corrections before a likely master painter finished the mural.
Also there are records from the worker village of Deir el-Medina outside the Valley of the Kings. The work gangs were structured to perform specific tasks. The gangs who hammered out the walls of the corridors/chambers had a person assigned to them whose job was to swap out blunted chisels = and weigh them. Because copper was valuable as "a strategic resource" - to prevent pilferage of broken pieces of bronze tools they weighed them before and after.
Now do basalt.
Dear Scientists Against Myths, what kind of copper is it in that chisel? Pure copper or Arsenic?
Damn i really wanted ti c him carve granite
Sandstone is basically chalk
It's interesting how Mystery History, Brien Forester, ect show ancient Petra as proof of lost high technology. Over the last 10 years, Brien has literally posted the same videos of him in Petra saying it's evidence of lost high technology, while never mentioning that stone is very soft sandstone, and was built in the iron age. The thing is, even with granite, it can be carved with arsenic copper, conundrum (which is behind diamond on the mohs scale, but most people have no idea what the mohs scale actually means), and chert/flint. These guys have demonstrated this, as did SGD Sacred Geometry Decoded. The amount of time it would take isn't a good argument because these people demonstrating this are just learning the beginning process. Stone work was a huge industry back then, and it employed huge masses of the population throughout the nile, along with slävë labor. The stone working techniques were honed for millenia passed down generation to generation. They likely had perfected their techniques to be able to do it in a more efficient manner. These are all the different factors that go into this. People are looking at the past with a modern frame of reference, and it becomes biased and muddy. Why hasn't chris dunn drilled a granite core with modern high speed technology and compare it to drill core 7, which he claims was made using extremely fast technology?
It's not about the saw it's more about the cutting agent like sand for instance.
The ones complaining and making, lets say dumb excuses, need to sit down and reevaluate whats going on. This fella has a copper chisle, to all the ones that said it cant be done, hes sitting here showing it, to make anything precise, again, he is in fact using a chisle. Yes, flatness, square corners etc can be made with chisles. You all need to use a chisle to know this, it's been done for thousands of years. But its rock, it doesnt matter if its wood or rock, concept is the same. One takes longer then the other. Common sense. But the precisness. No, no precisness. Only to the eye is it precise, get some measuring tools on there and it is not precise by no means. But but it has to be. No, this is what they want you to believe, nothing more, nothing less. A little common sense in the thought proceds of this, and youll see none of it is impossible. I have been saying this for years. The pyramids were not built precisely, its what they want you to believe because now its a mystery, its a money grab attraction for tourist. There is nothing precise about any of this, only to the eye does it look precise, because of lets say the pyramids, being do large, it can easily be off by 20 feet in an actual measurment which is unheard of in todays building techniques. But by eye, they look perfect because your eye cant fit it into perspective, that and they tell you its perfect, in which cements the fact in your head now that it has to be perfect. They dont let anyone come in and check measurments for a reason. Its all guff. Those ancient people were rock stackers, nothing more, nothing less. They had 5000 years to perfect it. And as far as it cant be achieved today, thats a line of crap. It isnt cost effective to stack rocks with 10, 5 million dollar machines and the labor cost alone would be crippling to a nation. Start using your heads.
Okay. Now make a stone vase out of granite that is symmetric to within a human hair, with a copper tool.
Why make the first object of that description?
Very well. I am thinking about the ancient myths in microbiology. I am working on it.. world need more realist science guys
Though valuable and informative, this demonstration skirts the underlying question: How did they cut granite and corundum (which is not possible with this technique)...since that was likely the way they cut the softer stone, like limestone/diorite, as well.
Not to mention he’s using a steel hammer to hit the copper chisel… what did the Egyptians supposedly use? A copper hammer or a rock? They must have went threw tooling pretty frequently
He was hitting it with a a rock and also a piece of wood. He addressed that. As for corundum, 8t is ground into sand paper. There is the answer to the smooth polishing. Also now drills were a thing from ancient times up until the early 20yh century.
See what I mean? Just flat STATEMENTS that the impossible can be done. You must not have actually seen some of the objects you believe were made with impact and abrasion. Bashing out a crude vessel in a month of labor says no more about how some of these were made than chipping out a few square inches of granite over a month. Try upscaling that technique to a 100 ton sculpture. Your lack of skepticism means you have not asked enough questions about what you are being told.
@@michael4250 pay for the product and then payyonyhly wages at my current job plus benefits for as long a s it takes me.
Lol, he blunted that copper chisel just chipping off that little tiny bit. Not sure this debunks much. The other videos on this channel do a really good job though.
They had teams of men constantly re-sharpening the chisels, entire crews of men. This is clearly shown in evidence from the middle kingdom, and there is absolutely no reason to assume that they would not have done the exact same thing in the old kingdom.
It's ridiculoous -- they can't let go of this copper chisel theory
People say it wasn’t possible. A GEOLOGIST proves it otherwise and now it’s now enough? It’s never enough to prove you guys wrong lol
@@maau5trap273 Lol there was no proof. That's the problem.
I love this explanation. Always being told that diamond is indestructible and can only be cut with other diamonds....well, if that's true, then how did they cut the first diamond? That doesn't make any sense. Context matters. Thank you😊💙
With a sharp Diamond
Hah! Check mate atheists!
Well done!
Icredible, where did you manage to find an authentic altantean chisel?
Dollar General
It’s either whoever carved those stones were absolutely god handed or there were another way to cut that shit so straight in short amount of time
Well when most of the stuff you use around is carved out of stone you can easily assume that there are a lot of people who mastered this kind of stuff. It’s crazy that you can almost see this in present times like mechanics, carpenters, chefs to name a few. People become experts with time.
Not only that but they had the resources to build it as well as the manpower
The ancient Egyptians used copper saws covered with quart sand. Quart sand is hard on the Mohs scale. Their frescoes show it. (But not the quart sand).
Excellent video, and on top of that the ancient Egyptians had arsenical copper which is harder than copper.
So in your mind, "that explains everything". LOL
@@BillOweninOttawa Yes because arsenical copper is harder than copper and it also is highly susceptible to work hardening in which a material gets stronger from being used.
@@Coinz8 this doesn't account for the machine made level of precision of surfaces ancient egyptians achived, so smooth they can be juxapose so closely not even a card can slide through them...doesn't account for the time and force needed anyway to do the task...doesn't account for the size and number of stones used...so many things...
@@watchit3746 Just because something is difficult it doesn't mean it's impossible.
@@watchit3746 you haven't watched the videos where they actually show that they aren't as precise as the ancient alien salesman claim.
We can make much more accurate cuts today.
Boo! Egyptians didn't have sunglasses.
What's is the purpose of a copper chisel?
That's the metal Old Kingdom Egyptians had available (no iron yet).
I suspect vinegar was put into chiseled grooves to soften limestone as well. And I wonder if vinegar and crushed onion juice would compound the effect. As far as Granite is concerned there was a "Reddish Glittery Mud That the Inca Use" made of some kind of plant juice and crushed pyrite, that softens it. It was discovered in their mining work. There is a scientific report about it.
No - as there was no need. Limestone is not overly hard and can be cut/shaped using bronze tools. Yet the Egyptians also used gneiss stone tools as well such as flint. So in the case of the pyramids most of the blocks represent ones quickly split off from the bedrock into approximate sizes vis using bronze chisels and hammers. Drive a chisel into stone and after a short distance in the stone via expansion will split along the line of chisels - there are videos of this technique being done on YT.
For blocks which needed to be more carefully cut you can on some blocks still see the chisel tracks where the craftsmen systematically went row by row to form the side. 🤔
p.s. - the Inca "red mud" appears to have been a byproduct of their mining in old volcanic areas. Volcanic rock contains a lot of sulfur which when exposed to water run-off can generate mildly acidic "tailings".
I bet if at 8:34 you fractured the surface with a big chunk of dolorite swung on a rope pendulum of a timber a frame then you would have much more significant results
@xIcyStarzz not entirely true, they could have imported timber from lebanon fairly easily, it would have been expensive, but it was certainly available to them.
@xIcyStarzz how long do you think organic material lasts? This was almost 5000 years ago.
I like your demonstrations and experiments. I do not like your tone. Smug doesn't look good on anyone.
i mean if its a mega project shouldnt the place be littered with the tools used? whats so hard to find acheological evidence for that? where did all the copper and dolorite tools went to??
Flint, dolerite are found throughout Egyptian history. Metal tools are much more scarce due to their value and recyclable nature.
@@Eyes_Open so its not a mystery at all. archeologists know how they were made. conspiracy theorists are just blewing things up.
@@malayneum In a general sense. Yes.
Well if the copper theory is true, most of the tools they used would have been ground to dust with use. It would take a few thousand copper chisels to rend a piece of granite or basalt from bedrock, as the chisels would disintegrate very quickly with use.
@@raoulduke8720 That is an interesting assessment of tool use. Do you have evidence to show why thousands of chisels per stone is necessary? How did they use the chisels as they were reduced to being almost dust?
Now do granite.
Now do it with quartzite and rose granite.
Drill holes, break off cores, continue to drill holes, use diorite stones for finishing work
@@jirace Is that how they made the 1,100 ton anatomically correct monolithic rose granite statues at Karnak?
@@wesbaumguardner8829 shoutout to you for replying to 1yo comment, fuck that deniable guy
@Justin Irace Sure, as soon aa you tell us how they used a drill with the "technology of the time" being either Stone age or bronze.
Neither of which are strong enough to cut granite, let alone drill perfectly round holes.
And make an absolutely PERFECT vase made out of various kinds of STONE. Perfectly done by hand 🤣 .0001 Margin OF error. By HAND 🤣😉 Seriously. This was done pre-Dynastic so eat them apples!
Ok... you made gravel...now chisel the rock into a multi-ton obelisk... without leaving chisel marks.... just saying.
Working a mutli-ton obelisk is no different to working a block the size of a housebrick. It just takes longer.
first of all, there are many tool (both chisel and saw) marks, if you are talking about ancient Egyptian stonework, and second of all, surface polishing has been a thing for a looong time.
@@dramir5635plus, has everyone forgotten about ground, polished jade adzes and axes?
@@armandbourque2468 for real
Break off small peices to get the rough shape. Use finer cutter or hammer stones to smash the high spots. Polish out the tool marks with fine sand, water, and a large flat stone or price of wood. When i dont know something, i keep looking. I dont give up and say "nobody could know how to do this"
What kind of eye protection did the Egyptians use?
Special spell
Eyelids
Thats a very good question! In the village Schönermark/Germany lives a stonemason/artist named Mr. Steinert. He works with granite a lot and yes the problem are the splinters and chips flying around, the same problem with flint. Without a decent, eye- and skinprotection goes nothing he says. The egyptians must have had some kind of see-through mesh...but there's nothing in the archeological record for the copper age of the neolithicum as far as i know.
@@christianultsch7261 I wonder if a loosely woven piece of cloth hanging from a headband (Stirnband) would be good enough.
Actually, I think that would be an excellent thing for our favorite crazy Russians to experiment with :)
@@peterfireflylund Meinste? Ich finde dass die Russen ziemlich agressiv gegenüber Skeptikern sind und auch gerne mal Fakten unter den Teppich kehren.
OK!.....now make 30 million blocks in 20 years for 3 pyramids.
How about you instead look at those blocks - and there are nowhere near 30 million of them either....... 🥱
Moral of the story: look at as but one example the video Arnaldo Costa Stonemason Extraordinaire. See an old man with nothing more than some chisels and a sledgehammer quickly split a granite block into 2 halves. So most of the limestone blocks which make up the pyramids are little more than crudely fractured chunks of stone of assorted shapes and sizes = in essence "stacked rubble". They would drivel long chisels along a line into the limestone - not a particularly hard stone. Then after a short distance in the stone via expansion = will split along an approximate line.
The quarries at Giza show whereby they were cutting trenches in the bedrock + holes along predetermined lines in the bedrock + with spaces for wooden levers to be inserted to pry out the chunks they split free to cart them away on wooden sledges. Methinks perhaps you should endeavor to learn the facts.............
@@varyolla435 -3 Seneferu pyramids..in "20 years"..30 million blocks...these are YOUR numbers...that you think are doable.
@@projektkobra2247 You can't even lie convincingly. 🥱
@@varyolla435 -OK, check your figures, clown.
@@projektkobra2247 No No. Hitchens Razor. It falls to you to justify your claims here. I however feeling generous will start you off.
You began with a meaningless claim of 30 million blocks for 3 pyramids. You then referenced Sneferu. For starters the Pyramid of Meidum has = a mudbrick core which was surrounded by stone blocks.
So coming right out of the gate your claim falls flat as that pyramid is not all stone. Further his subsequent pyramids as is seen in earlier ones are made of blocks smaller in size than seen with say the Giza Pyramids. Go back even further and Djoser's Pyramid is made of small blocks indeed.
So fracturing and transporting lots of smaller blocks is less labor intensive than doing the same for much larger blocks such as are found in the lower third of the Giza pyramids. Above the halfway point those pyramid's blocks become smaller in size as they rise in height. Anyways they were not individually quarrying millions of blocks. They rather were quickly fracturing off approximate sized chunks of stone and hauling those away as is. Very few of the total were more carefully cut and in some cases polished.
So clearly you are less knowledgeable here than you feign. While you will of course ignore all I just noted = but others will not. 🤔
Love these videos. Do you guys have an instagram account? I think you could do well with short videos there! Thanks though keep it up.
Thank you! Yes we have but in Russian
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths Spasibo ;) An English one would be nice but I've been trying to learn some russian lately. Have you a link to the profile I would like to follow?
instagram.com/antropogenezru/
I want to see you do this on a bigger stone and make a completely perfect cut like the Egyptians did then I will be satisfied
Do it yourself then. The Egyptians did that for their whole life's. And they didn't produce completely perfect cuts.
Somehow I doubt that you would be satisfied even then. The cuts are not perfect by the way. And the core limestone blocks are actually cut very roughly, and the gaps filled with rubble, and they make up the majority of the blocks. You underestimate the ancient Egyptians, they had the same brain as we do, the only thing they were missing was the benefit of the approximately 5000 years of written knowledge that we benefit from today. Never underestimate the ingenuity of some men, nor the stupidity of others.
I'd like to see him hollow out the Lapis Lazuli tube they found in Egypt that we would struggle to do with todays modern tools!!
Ancient lost high tech supporters are always moving the goal posts and making demands.
@@simonhunt3106 Why's it so hard to believe that we had better technology at some point before a cataclysm hit?! It's hardly a stretch!
We know the Egyptians knew how to square the circle for example -- thats a technique we only thought we got a grasp of in the 1800s I believe.
Awesome !!!
But there's no convincing these people they've been conned by a MULTI BILLION DOLLAR industry of "they couldn't do that".
If they couldn't do it, why is it here?
(Logic doesn't go far with them)
Yes you prove a copper chisel can "dismantle" a mountain. There is still a problem with your experiment. The Egyptians didn't just hammer away at stuff to make piles of rubble. They made accurate blocks, faces, bowls, ect. It was a pretty far leap to get to your conclusion. Not saying it can't be done, but if you are so confident it was done then please recreate it for your proof. Thanks for the videos.
If people are saying that history is wrong about the methods the Egyptians used to make their stuff and even going to the extend of saying that they couldn’t have possibly built it themselves then that means it’s not the job of the scientist to prove why it was the case but of the people making claims to prove otherwise vía finding the necessary evidence to disprove it
@@maau5trap273 I didn't know that's how science worked. Guess that's another thing we will change to appease those that find the old way of doing things to hard.
@@andrewshedron425 you can’t just change how the scientific method works
@@maau5trap273 next time you want to argue, spend a little time looking up definitions. Just cause you talk louder don't mean you're right.
@@andrewshedron425 care to enlighten me where I messed up?
So I’d like to know YOUR ESTIMATE how long it would take two people to dig a tomb in the valley of the kings. Just a small one. Tutankhamen one.
Two people? You are a humorist. Definitely faster than one person
Watch john romer documentaries.
So you're telling me that people haven't been able to dig holes in history?
@@diobrando2160 of course they have. The holes are there. But there are literally MILES of huge bedrock cut tombs in the valley of the kings and queens. It’s people saying that it was done with hammer & copper chisel that caused the argument. Do you know what the egyptologists actually said? ‘ they had a hundred people with copper chisels each hit the chisels a few times, then they turned around and got a fresh chisel from somebody behind them, then they repeated it again and again until the job was done’. I suggest you take a look at the size of the tombs in the valley of kings and imagine that happening.
@@TheGreatest1974 The tombs weren't built overnight. Time + people + simple tools has been shown to get the job done, there're multiple videos on this channel and others that show just how it can be done without the need for advanced tools or technology. Do you have a better explanation that is supported by the evidence?
Each point is made meticulously and conclusively. Extremely well done commentary, a must watch for armchair archaeologists.
fully shows how the core drilling was achived in ancient Egypt
You're easily led aren't you? - that rock was extremely weathered in many places for starters.
Secondly, note how the rock comes away in chunks because it was breaking along planes of weakness - he was fracturing the rock. For rough work that is acceptable - shattering rock wouldn't be a sensible method for carving a statue with precision would it?
Thirdly, try that on andesite or granite and you'll be there all day.
Fourthly, let's see the state of the chisel afterwards.
Fifthly, he failed to mention that Moh's scale is not linear. It is a qualitative ordinal scale. As an example diamond is over a thousand times harder than Corundum which is nine on the scale.
Better to be an armchair archaeologist than an armchair ass hat.
"meticulously and conclusively" lol.
Simple truth - both sides of the argument are guessing and both sides are being disingenuous with their conclusions to support their narrative.
The End.
@@doctormarazanvose4373 what’s your point? That aliens made the pyramids? You never even refuted the main point of the video, do you even understand it?
The Egyptians most certainly had iron, which is mentioned frequently in the Pyramid Texts. Also, an iron plate was found deep in the masonry of the Great Pyramid by Howard Vyse around 1836, whilst German archaeologists found a collection of iron tools, from the 5th Dynasty, around 1910.
Now I am sure I don’t believe the official theory.
"If facts contradict to my theory, the worse for the facts"
Just found this channel and this is the first video. Interesting. However, I am not sure this proves anything other than you can make chisels out of copper. Still, looking forward to see where these videos go.
What was the hammer made of?
He is only working on stone that is already broken up
Forget the limestone do granite
So you spent a few minutes chipping away at some soft stone and proved the Egyptians created amazing sculptures in the hardest of stone with simple hand tools. This is a neat straw man. Please explain the saw marks and core drillings to me. Try to demonstrate to completion the perfect boxes they carved out of granite?
You have to watch others vidoes on this channel
Exactly
You’re moving the goalposts. This video is about cutting stone with copper. The statue question isn’t being addressed here.
Is it possible to use bacteria or fungus, or even insects or other kind of organism, controlled by the humans in the ancient time, which could "eat" the stone?
Woodpeckers
They used the rare jackhammer antelope.....which went extinct at the beginning of the Middle Kingdom.
don't see what it proves, you can hammer with a stone aswell.
It's sandstone, it's brittle, of course you can chissle with copper into sandstone.
It's the markings on granite that makes the questionmarks, and the markings on basalt and dolerite statues.
Makes us a statue with the same gloss using copperchissels.
Polishing can be achieved easily in comparison to sculpting.
@@gravitonthongs1363 I know, I polish stones myself.
It's the markings that is the big question mark
The math and the immense if the oldest structures that boggles me.
Al what became later is is not even to be comparable.
How long would it have taken to chip out a pyramids worth? Also, chipping is one thing, hewing massive rectangles is another.
This is the saddest attempt at debunking pyramid myths I ever witnessed.
Yep, it's ridiculous.
Not that I disagree with the information being conveyed here but I don't appreciate the mocking, derisive tone that is adopted. It distracts from whatever 'science' is being presented and just promotes people to take sides instead of discover the truth.
that's fair. the effort is kind of wasted by that.
but it's very difficult not to when you are dealing with highly committed, almost cult like,people
@Steve Faure
Presenting facts and dismantling silly misconceptions doesn't constitute mockery in my book, it's called schooling.
As for the tone, I found it too mild, bs peddlers and their followers are laughable, they exist precisely because societies are way too permissive when it comes to bs peddling and fraud.
Freedom of expression and thought? Sure
Freedom to peddle bs? Nope
Now show us how the Egyptians moved and lifted 50 ton rocks high into the pyramids and other locations.
There’s already videos. Use the half brain cell you have to search on the internet. You can literally google your comment and find everything you need
Very good observations and proofs.
GREAT!!! I'm sick and tired of these conspiracy BSers. I'm recommending this video to SGD who is fighting the BSers
The ancient Egyptians did not have steel... The comment is, how to you shape GRANITE with COPPER... you don't. The only way is harder stone or copper drill tube and sand.. A long and grueling process. NOBODY talks about shaping sandstone lol... just moving 100 ton statues... Stop explaining the easy common sense stuff and tackle the hardest questions, like I know you usually do. I love your granite drilling and sawing videos, this video... not so much.
Actually the shaping of limestone is a big issue amongst the big hitters of the Lost Ancient High Technology crowd. Brien Foerster and Bright Insight mentioned it a lot and said it was impossible, they both even called Petra lost ancient high technology and it is of sandstone.
Though in regards to shaping granite, on this channel they showed an example with flint tools, and dolerite pounders on their Russian language channel.. However when it comes to shaping sculptures search "Travail des pierres dures dans l'Egypte Antique" on youtube as one example. You would have rather steel but the advantages are not spectacular compared to other tools.
Examples of moving heavy stones just look up the Cleopatra Obelisk move in NYC, they took photos, or the obelisks in Rome. With that ancient tech 100 t is barely worth mentioning and lifting the Ozymandias statue of 1000t plus could be done.The timbers and ropes they had available could deal with those weights.
@@SacredGeometryDecoded I understand a lot of amazing things can be accomplished with primitive tools, but the technology that the egyptians had was higher than historians give credit. Moving the boxes in the Serepeum's tight hallways is a mystery. The strange way Egyptians and other ancients quarried granite like in Aswan with the strange wave patterns. Just the test pits alone in Aswan would take years with a dolerite pounder and a bare hand. The statues made out of granite and basalt are among the most skillful ever created... Look how they even show the slightest subtle details like the rib cages perfectly in the basalt lion/sphinx statue and certain granite statues in the museums.(forgot what they are called) The biggest smoking gun that shows predynastic egypt had advanced technology (not compared to today, compared to what they are said to have) is the stone vases/jars that were found by the hundreds. They are made of some of the hardest stones and perfectly hollowed out and shaped. This channel was trying to make a dolerite jar I believe.. what happened with that? If they succeed it will look nowhere as good and will take months to years even using that advanced contraption weighted bow drill thing that is more advanced than what they had supposedly. Do you understand where we are coming from now? When we say advanced high technology, or lost ancient high technology it means technology that is higher that what theirs is believed to be, not ours. If we understand how they did it, then it should be recreated, like grinding out some granite as Aswan off of the same granite boulder that people come and visit everyday, still no lines... not even any weathering after thousands of years. There is mystery to this and ignoring it is being just as ignorant as the people who say that only aliens could have done it.
@@patriot6901 Moving the boxes in the Serapeum- the niches and walls themselves provide countless anchor points. Lowering the boxes into the deeper pits could have been done with sand. I don't know exactly how they were moved but with primitive tech such as double hitch (sail rigging as seen in tombs and skilled knots such as the Khufu Solar Boat). They had all the pieces that make up later cranes such as from Roman era- though the Library of Alexandria in Egypt was where the best engineers came from.
The Aswan quarry- using fire setting for instance drastically would increase the rate of quarrying, at the quarry and others are still traces where the wall was marked out in a grid matching the "scoop" marks. Experiments at Aswan using fire setting and pounders was able to replicate those marks. They use fire to weaken the surface and then pound away at their area.
"Just the test pits alone would take years would take years with a dolerite pounder and a bare hand. Actually no it wouldn't as experiments with pounders get good results but there are other ways.
To show details like a rib cage in a statue- how did other civilisations or sculptures up until the invention of modern tooling do that?
The statues of grantie and basalt are amongst the most skillful ever created? What exactly is it about them that gives them that prize?
Stone jars were found in the hundreds. Found in tens of thousands actually and most are pretty rough, the best ones are shown as an example of what the standard is, this channel has already replicated some using the the most basic of primitive technology, made by one person rather than in a workshop situation. There are tomb paintings of workshops showing them making those vases, which would greatly speed up the process. The dolerite vase is being made, they post it on a live feed.
Those "prefectly hollowed out jars" , are they perfect? Are there measurements- one famous one i see cited all the time with thin walls actually has grooves on the inside from the tool. I have yet to see any evidence of one. Lots of claims but nothing more than that.
It would take months to years with a weighted box drill, actually they did have bow drills and another type of stone mason drill (flywheel drill) which is shown in workshops paintings and goes back to early dynastic period. The hieroglyph for stone masons drill is a picture of one of those and is in the tools section of Gardiner's Hieroglyph dictionary.
This channel showed on in use and then I made many how to videos on that drill to flesh out details, the deepest core hole could be done in hours, hollowing out not that much longer, it certainly wouldn't take years. Though up until the industrial age taking time to make things was the standard.
Chris Dunn, Brien Foerster and all the other big hitters in lost high technology are all saying it requires advanced " precision" technology such as ours or better. Chris Dunn states you couldn't make a serapeum box now days without making it in 5 pices and bolting them together.
Mike Haduck channel, he recently posted a video showing some experiments including footage of himself at Aswan using a pounding stone. The sample stones at Aswan have been worn down over the years. There will be no lines on those stones because people just randomly pound at them for a few seconds and move on, if there was a steel chisel there and they did the same thing you'd get much the same result. Stonemasonry has always been a slow process.
The questions (mystery) there is none, if there was then what about every civilisation that came after and made far more beautiful life like sculptures including far more detail. They would include fine details such as veins and grown up down there hair.
All i can say is get some granite and give it a go, i did and I was able to do the things described as impossible by the big lost high tech channels suchas "giant circular saw" "enigmatic core drilling" " Precision flatness". I filmed them and posted them as how to's so that anyone can replicate the experiments and avoid the noob mistakes i made.
It is quite fast, a couple of hours for each operation to show significant progress.
Where as claims of "perfect precision" are baseless, recently I saw " NEW EVIDENCE" that a micron of spot flatness at Barabar caves in India. Using the ancient polishing technique that is now called the " Whitworth 3 plate method" can do that easily.
@@SacredGeometryDecoded Im not claiming any of these things are impossible today. Im claiming that the Ancient civilizations were profoundly more advanced then historians like to give credit. The Antikythera Mechanism IS LOST ANCIENT HIGH TECHNOLOGY I know that phrase hurts your head but you are taking it the wrong way. When you talk about the live stream diorite vase being made by one person, not in a shop... How would more than one person work on the vase? She crafted a machine to drill a hole with, what did the PRE DYNASTIC Egyptians suddenly have that was more advanced? And where did it go because the Dynastic Egyptians were not making these. The most impressive feats are old kingdom. The unfinished obelisk is shaped and square while still being attached to bedrock. They clearly were not fire setting or the underside of the obelisk that is exposed in the pits would show signs of that. They would have had to fill it with wood, heat it, move the debris and then jump down there on the hot granite and awkwardly pound upwards with a stone all while having a even scoop mark throughout. The thing is, Even a diorite pounder tied to a pole would be more advanced then Egyptologist and history says they were using. You show a 10 inch vase and agree it would take months... then look around at the massive piles of broken statues upwards of 100 to 1000 ton perfectly shaped granite columns in one piece... we today would not make them in one piece because of the difficulty of transportation to the eye and you think over 1000s of years they never developed a better tool than a ball of diorite... Then the moving is a whole problem itself. 100+ ton blocks require a massive barge... 1000+... even more massive. Now look at how hard it would be to transport the lumber. I think they were advanced beyond our understanding in stone working and it is ignorant to think they were not. It would only make sense that people would develop methods and master the craft, then a war, natural disaster or disease could bring everything back to basics. WE could be reduced back to this very easily. Einstein said something like- I don't know what weapons World War 3 will be fought with, but I know that World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.
@@SacredGeometryDecoded Can you explain the Schist Disc ?
This legit proves nothing LMAO
Archaeologists and historians will be working overtime to debunk this guy. Their narrative is getting harder and harder to defend. I learned this reality by breaking up basalt boulders. I will take an hardened steel tool any day over a copper one.
Except they were not using copper tools to quarry basalts........ The video deals with = limestone/dolomite - which is "softer" than basalts and hence easier to work using bronze tools. Also as alluded to they also frequently used = gneiss stone tools in addition to bronze ones.
Now try that on granite 😆
ok, try it and be amazed I guess lol
You think this is how the huge valley of the kings tombs were dug out? I doubt it.
It will be useful for you to look through old pictures at your leisure: pierres-info.fr/cartes_postales_1/index.html
Why do you doubt it? What other explanation is there that is supported by the evidence?
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths That's impressive....anything on video of them doing the same
in modern times? 21st century?
@Mr. Plinkett I recommend to watch:
czcams.com/video/HtNLEYQnFRs/video.html (1971)
czcams.com/video/HFQACbvDX2A/video.html
czcams.com/video/ujifrIl8hv8/video.html
@@ScientistsAgainstMyths Thank you....I will watch.
Magic!!!!! Lol. Great job
Ancient Egyptians didn't use copper tools, they used arsenical bronze, which the hardest copper alloy rivaling and exceeding many steel alloys. Vickers hardness of up to 260. Did the tools dull from work? Sure. Did they have dedicated people to sharpen them? Absolutely, just like all quarries through history, be it bronze age or 18th century.
Yet they also used gneiss stone tools as well. Further they would have been more commonplace given the cost of procuring and maintaining alloy tools. So while they certainly used bronze tools those were likely used for special applications. The basic tool would have been a stone one. Egyptologists have found countless examples of flint etc. tools in Egypt.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say copper couldn't cut into limestone...I know of no one who ever said steel couldn't cut into granite. If you're talking about the ancient technology stuff...they argument is that they DIDN'T have steel and although you can work on both kinds of rock with copper...it's going to take you a very long time and you're going to need lots and lots of copper...as it will wear down, bend, lose its cutting edge easily.
But, no, I've never heard anyone say that. Another false argument.
I'm not even a believer in "LOST ANCIENT TECH" I just genuinely am curious on how it was accomplished.
*however it was done !!!*
these people who are so passionatly FOR OR AGAINST certain ideas are bizarre. why not just objectively look for answers instead of pointing and yelling. this is why these subjects are shrouded in mystery, because we are still chimpanzees throwing dung.
Except that they had the time and the copper. Also bronze is recyclable as most metals are. There is evidence as an example that workers in the Valley of the Kings used to have their tools weighed to prevent pilferage of broken bits. Copper was "a strategic resource" and hence it was controlled. Yet they did not use copper alone. The ancient Egyptians used gneiss stone tools as well. Being plentiful stone like flint as an example - about as hard as granite - could be shaped and used in addition to bronze. As an aside. Arsenical bronze can be as hard as wrought iron - though not as hard as carburized iron such as comes from forges.
So what matters here is that you can using stone tools as well as bronze ones achieve these things. As to "time". Egyptologists as an example have unearthed underground caches of mummified animals for votive offerings and as burial items - literally millions of them. What does that say??? It tells me there was an entire economy built around fabricating things which likely employed tens of thousands directly with countless more supplying their needs - obtaining and smelting the ore and casting new tools and so on. Ergo craftsmen would be working on these things month after month year after year as that was all they did. They received food and lodging in exchange for plying their craft.
@@varyolla435 The copper would be ground into fine dust mixed with granite, limestone, etc... dust. That would make the copper non-recyclable as there would be no way to separate the copper dust from the rock dust.
If they had been using iron or steel it might be possible to recycle what was ground away using a natural magnet. Copper is not magnetic. And, not really being any harder than the stone and being subjected to the same forces, the copper would tend to wear away at about the same rate as the stone.
The Great Pyramid alone has more than 2.3 million very large blocks with 6 sides each...that 13.8 million cuts for the single pyramid. If those were all done with copper saws... imagine the massive amount of material removed...even in relatively thin cuts. Now imagine that same amount of copper lost forever. And that's just one building.
If they had truly had that amount of copper available....there would still be an obvious copper trail and evidence of copper mining on a truly epic scale. I would think there would still be trace evidence of a lot of copper dust mixed in the sand.
Its not that you can't work hard stone with copper...it's just that I don't see them ever having the amount that all that work would take. Some of it....sure. All of it.... probably not. Steel and iron are better...not only because they are harder...it's also because they don't wear away anywhere near as fast as the softer metals.
When someone can find evidence of exorbitant amounts of copper and/or bronze being available I'll believe it. And flint and stone would not be at all useful sawing through blocks the size of two mini-vans.
Probably not Aliens and laser beams...but there has to be a better answer than copper and bronze.
@@peng1965a Not true. You can easily pan out the copper from the slurry just like gold dust.
So they claim 2.3mln stones weighing 2.5 to 72tonnes were chipped like this and the pyramid was built within 20years. Ohh and they gave used stone hammers instead of steel.
Bulk of great pyramid was rough cut from limestone quarry on site. Outer layer and internal passages more skillfully shaped and placed.
@@Eyes_Open hard to believe
@@MM2009 Why just believe? Photos show it and literature supports it.
Why, when using the pick-mattocks on the stone, were you using the mattock (wide) blade and not the pick?
Ok, where's the granite statue?