NES HDMI no-cut mod - LumaCode for the Nintendo Entertainment System
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
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c0pperdragon on Tindie: www.tindie.com/stores/c0pperd...
c0pperdragon's GitHub: github.com/c0pperdragon/LumaCode
RGBtoHDMI GitHub: github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI
NES games using colour emphasis: www.nesdev.org/wiki/Colour-em...
Previous LumaCode videos
C128: • Jailbar free Commodore...
C64: • New C64 solderless HDM...
Atari 8bit: • New Atari solderless H...
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🛍️ TRC Tindie store: www.tindie.com/stores/theretr...
🛠 Tools and kit: / tools-and-kit-77570017
💬 Discord: / discord
😎 Ad-free, early access: / theretrochannel
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0:00 Intro
2:12 NES disassembly
4:09 PPUdigitizer installation
6:11 LumaCode wiring
12:23 RGBtoHDMI setup
14:42 Audio options
16:45 Full test
17:48 Results and thoughts
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Thanks for watching! - Věda a technologie
The PPUdigitzer is expected to become available once full support is added to the RGBtoHDMI (no ETA as yet). If you are interested, please keep an eye on c0pperdragon's Tindie store (link in the video description). I will try to keep this pinned comment updated with news on availability, potential support for NTSC systems, OSSC NES Lumacode support etc. 🙂
Once he can get it all
Squared maybe make a internal make the parts smaller to internalize the rasberry pie and hat added to it inside and then have a hdmi port that can be added anywhere into the system
Design and make your own lumicode stickers.. for giveaways
would there be a way to directly output rgb with this?
The consumer market really should've adopted SDI, the professional standard for delivering digital HD video and audio over a single coaxial cable, just like used for RF or composite video. But it lacks HDCP, so the copyright police absolutely never would've allowed it.
This is pretty neat to modify without removing the PPU. Pair it with an external DAC and you’ve got analog RGB output
A few years ago I installed a Hi-Def NES along with a NESessity 1.4 board in my NES and not once have I looked back (okay one time; when I saw Hogan's Alley at the vintage game store in my town and wished I could use a Zapper with a modern TV). So happy to see there are new HDMI solutions on the horizon.
I just wish something would be done for the SNES!
I can’t wait for NTSC support!!
Far out mate as another Aussie into this hobby for well over 20 years I cannot believe I have not found your channel before! Oh well I have now and I subscribed. Very well presented video.
The “Digitizer” name will lead people to believe that this is digitizing analog when it is actually replicating the PPU’s functions to generate digital video from the data bus… the same way Hi-Def NES, RGB Blaster, and NESRGB generate their digital source. Before anyone assumes it’s somehow less digital than the Hi-Def NES: the “Digitizer” board isn’t digitizing anything. :)
This is awesome! Very exciting development I'll be closely following.
No NES here but this this looks amazing :D
Jesus HDMI Christ this is brilliant.
Neat modification. Thanks for showcasing it.
It's a really neat idea that I know I will never use. I have tried all kinds of things with my Amigas, C64s and vintage consoles. I end up getting tired of things (excluding displays) not powering on and off when I turn the computer or console on and off. But, it's still neat to have ways of getting old consoles hooked up to modern displays.
Excellent video. I was really hoping that they would make a digitizer for NES. Can't wait. I also look forward to a follow-up video
If u weren't so far away, I'd ship you one of my ntsc models so you can send to copper dragon. Maybe it'll be available eventually. Cheers bud
This looks like it might introduce some lag.. I wonder what this feels like to play. Awesome idea!
Not enough lag for me to notice, but I'll do some proper tests soon
It's crazy when you think about it. You put a daughterboard in your console, hundred to thousand times more powerful than the console itself, just to get better video output.
Ruined a old console valueble in original condition only
@@iulianispas8634not true, if the mod is done properly. It adds value, instead if you do it wrong, or looking for just an og experience. Guess you cant sell your stock ness for 100$, bet this will sell for that price, no matter the yellowing.
@@ClosestNearUtopia my stock Nes and Famicom have a micro Av mod a transmiter board hiden under the mobo no holes( the mode can be undone easy) and stay proud in a glass display case . I play nes on a Famicom clone with wireless controlers and hdmi 33£ aliexpress . Unfortunetly the clone dont work with everdrive n8 , i have multi cartriges most important games . Im sorry but i find your mode over done.
@@iulianispas8634lmao no way. This is way more valuable than a stock NES, which is only worth around $50 anyway.
Pretty cool !!
Kudos to the genius that came up with this idea and theretrochannel for showing had to do the mod but Im just gonna stick to the old fashioned way.
I have an early 2000's lcd tv with no hdmi for my old game systems 😆 they all display full screen it also has component hook ups
Surprised you managed to disassemble it without slicing a finger. I swear Nintendo made the edges of the RF shield as sharp as possible to punish anyone who dares to disassemble a NES.
I want to get excited about this but the having to mod the console to then have multiple external connections is making it difficult, considering how many existing solutions that arr already available, once audio gets incorporated I will prob pick this up and see how difficult it would be to bypass the rf jack and wire directly to the digitizer and add an hdmi port to make this an internal mod
The Immortal uses emphasis bits extensively… and doesn’t work on many TVs including late model CRTs and all digital TVs with analog inputs due to “blacker than black” colors that get misinterpreted as a mid-line sync pulse. It’s a game that could really use proper digitization.
Ah the Mattel version. Not seen one of them in a while
I care bout composite because I have a CRT tv for my vintage consoles. 🤣🤣🤣
WhyDontWeHaveBoth.gif
@@TheRetroChannel You could do that, but it's not right. 🤣🤣🤣
This would be awesome if they brought it to the SNES
Does this setup expect the Pi to be powered by whatever USB service port the TV might have? I'm looking at the Tindie listing and it seems like a fairly short cable (maybe 12 inches max) for the NES to plug into the RGBtoHDMI and for the Pi to be powered during operation this would make for an awkward, cumbersome cable management situation.
Hopefully not too long before Rgb2Hdmi can take audio input and embed it into the hdmi signal. That was the only down side for the Vic20 for me. I ended up with more cables and adapter boxes piled up behind the computer.
Can this do 240p resolution, or is there a way to get RGB instead of HDMI so we can use something like the Retrotink 5x or 4k for the HDMI + Masks/Profiles?
If you have the video over RGB2HDMI it can make the audio out of sync if the audio going by another input.
I've never played NES on PAL systems but I'm very familiar with NTSC. Is it normal for SMB to sound and play that fast? It looks like it's 30-50% faster than "it should be".
Yeah, I believe Nintendo attempted to make it run around the same speed as NTSC. It ends up being slightly faster but I guess it's better than the usual 20% slower most games suffer from when running on PAL
why can't the raspberry pi embedd the audio via a cheap audio-in solution into the hdmi?
Can I hook up vga or scart to that?
I just wonder. Why LumaCode was developed as analog signal in the first place and not some sort of digital signal. Because for me it looks wery weird to convert Digital -> analog (LumaCode ) -> and back to digital
In fact the signal is digital in nature, but it uses 4 different "digits" instead of the usual 2 ("low" and "high"). These signal can be losslessly transfered and processed, so no additional noise is introduced.
A lot of digital coding and modulation schemes use multiple steps of amplitude and/or phase to store data in a way that can be carried robustly within limited bandwidth.
The idea behind LumaCode is that all the supported consoles and computers have a small and predefined color palette, so there's no need to send explicit RGB or YCbCr color information for each pixel but only its palette index, which is a mere 3 to 6 bits.
Embedding that into a monochrome CVBS signal makes it easier for scalers like the OSSC to support it through their existing video interfaces.
A capable converter samples the LumaCode signal at the required dot clock, decodes the encoded palette index for each pixel and produces an output pixel with the known color associated with that index. 🙂
What reslolution is the Pi HDMI outputting?
1920x1080 but I believe other resolutions are possible depending on the pi being used
@@TheRetroChannel Oh! that's amazing, thank you.
Cool. Actually you can rout only one conductor, the ground is all over the place.
In this case the ground wire is used as a shield ground, minimises unwanted interference
@@TheRetroChannel if you want the ground to act like a shield, you have to use a shielded cable for that.
How is that better than Retrotink2x?
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16:44 Unfortunately I am immediately put off by the sheer number of external devices and the rats nest of cables required. RCA will do just fine.
You don't need any of that stuff. Once audio support is added you'd just use composite video + audio to the appropriate scaler, whether it's the RGB2HDMI or an OSSC, etc. Maybe they'll figure away to internalize the scaler and then you add an HDMI port. In fact, I'm sure someone can already do this.
The music and sound effects are pretty messed up. Nothing is timed right.
PAL
That Raspberry Pi can emulate the entire NES by itself, no soldering required.
You're fun
So can your cell phone, or one from 10 years ago, or my PC from 30 years ago, so what's your point?
Emulation is not the real thing, if you don't want a console, don't get one. Or just complain that an FPGA renders it obsolete or whatever...
3:02 Have you actual tested that the capacitor will discharge when you press the power button or is it again a myth?
Was there another myth? The capacitor does store a charge for a while after the NES is powered off. I've tested it myself and it has around 12V after powering off. You can easily confirm this just turning the NES off, unplugging the power cable and pushing the power button. The LED at the front will briefly light up as the cap discharges
@@TheRetroChannel And does it really matters if i discharge the capacitor when you only feed the NES with 9 volts? That capacitor can not have more than 25 volts. Totally safe to touch.
@fu1r4 Safe to touch yes. But as that cap is before the power switch, it has no discharge path and will hold a charge for some time. Normally it wouldn't matter but when working inside the RF modulator, it's possible to accidentally short it. Again not a big deal if you're expecting it, but it could be a nasty surprise for beginners
Imagine modding the console without discharging the cap. You have a few wires dangling around, some of them already connected to your RGB mod or whatever and maybe one of them already connected to the GND of the console. Suddenly one of the wires touches the capacitor leg and sends 12V through your expensive mod or other parts of the console. You'd be having a very bad day.
ther is a a/v to hdmi cable but you need 2 audio and 1 video plug.
Not practical. Starting to resemble a MegaDrive with its many add-ons. Trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Its aight, I guess, its a money pit at this point. The point of these video mods is to keep the shelf uncluttered, everything to be kept inside the case. What's the point of capture cards and upscalers? Precisely to avoid all of this wiring mess.
The amount of time wasted just to set up and the money that will be spent, get a proper upscaler instead. Not very practical, but those who miss the MegaDrive and its add-ons, rejoice. Not worth the effort.
Basic soldering skills but a bunch of spaghetti wires.
I mean now you must power the console, two external devices, have 2 HDMI cables, audio cables.
They should just have people put the whole assembly inside the nes and have an HDMI slot cut in the back.
I've never regretted my HiDef-NES but now ai realize how lucky I am to have one and the NES works like it was just built like that.
Did you watch the whole video? Once they add audio support you'll just feed composite audio and video to a scaler. Also, you can easily fit the RGB2HDMI inside the console or just attach it to the back or side and run a very short composite cable to it.
@@brandogg the RGB2HDMI will still require power though no? Anyway as of now this is feasable and since you don't have to take out both CPU and PPU to leech their datas into an external board it is cool, the whole go inside the RF unit stuff is kinda bad though, unless you just cut out the traces, this isn't too bad.
It's nice to see modern solutions for older systems and get pixel perfect gaming.
Having installed both a PSDigital and a Hidef-Nes in my retro consoles it's really changing the game. We still need a better light gun solution though.
This is an awesome feat, but what subset of people want “perfect” NES video quality on modern TV’s but with native hardware?
Running real NES hardware should almost require a CRT- and analog signal is the best that era did so it’s almost blasphemous to digitize that output.
If anyone wants to play NES games in all their glory on modern TV’s, we’ve been able to do that and make it look 10x better with upscaling and shaders with emulators since the 90’s.
So I guess I should just throw out my OSSC and limit myself to tubes that could die at any point, and then I'm stuck searching for another tube TV as they get rarer and rarer?
Yeah, makes total sense.
Some of us own 10+ game systems and would like them on the same screen.
I have a 45" HDTV in my bedroom and a 65" in the den, but I HAVE to play retro games only on my 25" CRT according to you?
Nah. I have a spare NES for that, just for light gun games.
Don't even bring up emulation. The least you could do is shill the MISTer for people who want to play accurately on a modern screen.
its not supposed to look like that, if I wanted my nes games to look like that I would just use an emulator.
Ok we'll be here following the project's positive progress, you can stick to your 12" CRT and reading glasses.
I'll be projecting my NES on a 100" wall.
@@DeAthWaGer I do that with a 150" screen yet the graphics look proper as the should look and not over the top sharp and fake so yeah you carry on with your fake graphics LOL 😂
1 raspberry pie can emulate everything itself. Instead, you'd rather add 5 more cords, a mono splitter, an audio injector adapter, 3 separate power supplies, 2 more pcbs and a raspberry pie!😂
Yes.
#EmulationIsForQuitters
I hope you understand that micro pie can emulate in HD up to Ps2 games . Just ruined a collectable console valuble in original condition only.
Lmao