NASA Could Extend Boeing's 45-Day Starliner Mission Cap
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- Earlier today we finally got another update on Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft in the form of a media teleconference. Here the agency and company revealed that they still aren’t ready to set a return date until they complete more tests related to the thruster malfunctions and the helium leaks which could take weeks. They stressed that the crew is safe and that they are instead just using the time available to them before the eventual undocking.
They specifically mentioned new thruster tests expected to happen in the coming days back at NASA’s White Sands Test Facility. Here I will go more in-depth into the state of Starliner, possible return opportunities, extending its 45-day mission cap, and more.
For more space-related content check out - thespacebucket.com/
Credit:
NASA - / @nasa
Boeing - / @boeing
Chapters:
0:00 - Intro
0:34 - A Few More Weeks of Testing - Věda a technologie
I imagine by now the original ISS crew have gone from "Welcome aboard" to "so when are you guys heading off?"
Like the in laws that have "car troubles" during thanksgiving
They have fixed the toilet.
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days. ~ Benjamin Franklin
They have no clothes with them because they had to bring a toilet. They can’t possibly have anything to do. They planned to be home in a week. It must be pretty awful up there. Plus they will have to climb into a ship whose problems are not understood by ground control.
@@tanagra2There is always something to do on the ISS. They have been there multiple times in their lives, so they know exactly what to expect. As astronauts, bonus time in space is typically not seen as a negative. Especially when the mission had an open window for potential return (and this is still within that window). Every launch and return from space is dangerous, and as professionals, they know the risk of failure is fatal on even the best of days. Just because you are clearly not cut out for the role, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t.
Weren’t they supposed to do all this testing over the last 3 years?
When Quality Assurance cuts costs, they also cut meaningful testing.
They clearly didn't correctly understand the cause for thruster failures during the last test flight.
No they were supposed to test all this a decade ago when the contract was awarded
That's what I'm saying!! Normally, testing is done before any product is put in service and each level is approved as safe. The horse has already left the barn here...
NASA is on the hook for Starliner just as much as Boeing. Don't forget that they favored Boeing over Space X with a larger development amount than Space X
Funny how that all worked out for SpaceX, half the up-front money and the Lion's share of the flights in the end.
The 'starting' concept is where the two companies differ. SpaceX started with a new clean sheet of paper, and Boeing took the old Apollo design and 'stretched' it to be bigger.
Our government is clearly corrupt, but Boeing has to be running out of favors. This is embarrassing and highly public.
I think NASA asked both companies and SpaceX just bid a smaller amount. Doesn't make it look any better for Boeing.
@@thomasboese3793 - Agreed.
I reckon that if SpaceX had used the old Apollo module as a starting-point, they would have made the "new Apollo"
( "Apollo v2.0" ) as great as the Dragon capsule!
They probably would have ended up with something very similar to Dragon, I think.
SpaceX is run by pros whereas Boeing seems to be run by beancounters.
The difference *really* shows in their products over the last decade or so.
SpaceX has gone from zero to a world-trusted company with *outstanding* reliable rockets and space modules.
Boeing has gone from bad to worse. I'll bet they ask for "just a few billion dollars more" to fix things (and that still won't fix things).
Why doesn't NASA do something sensible to protect the astronauts, like sending up Boeing people to ride to down while the astronauts return in SpaceX?
Classic Navy sea trials activity! Get a few suits on the ship to encourage them to not cut corners during production. Love the idea.
No Boeing employee voluntarily or if job threatened would go no matter how confident they are, while on ground, that everything is ok.
Everybody knows if it wasn't for optics, a Dragon would be up there right now retrieving them.
Nah, what's at stake is Boeing's 2/3 of the return to space funding that was spent following the retirement of the Shuttle. Boeing needs time not to fix the spacecraft, but to pay off enough people in Washington to force the Astronauts to ride Starliner.
@@twotone3471Utter bullshit- - Above.
"The crew is safe" that's what they said about Columbia
@LuciFeric137 - ... and what Stockton Rush (of OceanGate) said about the Titan submersible.
And Soyuz 1 and 11
The above posts were made by undereducated, non-experts.
Boeing say the crew are safe. Yes they are as long as they stay where they are or return with SpaceX.
@hughwitherington7956 I'll say it again, Boeing will *NOT* want them going home in Dragon. God help them if they force them to go home in Starliner.
@@grahammonk8013
I agree with you Graham. The loss of face to Boeing would be enormous if Starliner were to return without the crew. As would be the possible consequences for their program. It makes it a risk worth taking to them. But not to onlookers like us.
This is like watching the titanic in slow motion.
So true. It's wild. 😢
Agree. I would not want to come back in that ship.
For real. If this ship and crew come back it will be yrs before another starliner goes up. Starship might be operational or close by then. And for sure dream chaser will be
Let’s just hope it doesn’t end in tragedy.
Sounds like they are unexpectedly stranded pending yet undetermined repairs...
how cool, a spacecraft which just needs a couple of weeks testing.... after mission start.
I don’t know why anyone would trust Boeing anymore.
Simple, corruption in DC.
C'mon the criticism is clearly unfair...I'm even the whistleblowers feel so bad about calling out Boeing they keep doing themselves in🙄
@@THX..1138 not the most health company to work for "he fell down stairs after contacting the FAA and broke his neck."
The first thing you say when your stranded is "we're not stranded".
Huh???
"Houston. We have a problem"
What's that? 'We love it up here and want to stay'.
Is that Okay?
Nah, You're just chicken.
Get your Butt's back here before we really get Mad.
But, but ....
No buts ... ...
“We’re not stranded, we’re just staying where we’re currently at and really can’t provide an actual timeframe for when we’ll be back. Not stranded!!” Uhhh buddy you’re stranded!
It'd be ok if he had said it with a deep manly chuckle (because, haha, OBVIOUSLY if you have a fucked up vehicle to escape in, you are NOT 'stranded'),* but he blew it. Now Nappi, Nappi would have had us thinking this was the plan all along, and damn, shouldn't we be giving Boeing more money?!.
*By this logic, a survivor on a desert island is not stranded either since he can just swim away and drown.
🤡🌍
Come now, it's just a three hour tour.
Middle of a test phase? But the date for the end of the phase keeps changing. The test phase was a week. Now they're pushing past the on station time of 45 days. I'm glad Boeing is paying for this whole fiasco.
Totally a NASA failure for not requiring Boeing to perform several cargo supply missions to the ISS and ensure the integrity of the Starliner capsule before sending a live crew. They could have ironed out the bugs.
The did send a cargo Starliner to ISS. Problem is mostly in the EXPENDABLE service module, which jettisoned, will be destroyed with nothing but data remaining. Clearly an amateur, arm chair, basement engineers posting above.
In other words, Boing is trying to research how to control their Sweating.
Boeing
If I was Elon I'd paint a falcon 9 and dragon in the colours of Thunderbird 1, FAB International Rescue,
He has promised a Trump2024 themed ship before the election. This would be a good candidate.
Pity they didn't show this much caution BEFORE they launched two people into orbit aboard a spacecraft they knew had a serious fault they couldn't explain.
"They want to investigate the helium leak while they can", but the leak was already there before takeoff, right ? Didn't they investigate it before takeoff already ??! And what do they mean when they say that they can extend certification "if needed" ? What's the point of a certification if you can extend it at will ?
My rules, my way. I will do what I want, when I want, and you have no say.
1 helium leak was present on the launch pad, while 4 more only appeared on orbit, possibly caused by the high vibrations or g-load during launch, or some other aspect of the accent.
It's interesting how NASA & Boeing are starting to find new rationale for extending the mission. Now they talk about testing components beyond the 45-day limit, astronauts being available to assist with station operations, etc. Because after 3 weeks of endlessly analyzing endless data, they still don't understand why those systems are failing. They're waiting for that box on the flowchart that says "And then a MIRACLE happens!".
Maybe the vacuum of space is sucking the life out of their fuel.
"" It can't be, It's helium ""
You have no idea what you're talking about, their delaying and doing additional testing because NASA and Boeing disagree on what the data is saying. If they agreed then they would've made the decision by now.
"We're not stranded in space," says astronauts stranded in space.
Right they're like we're not stranded we're just taking our time to get our affairs in order and say goodbye to our families. Then we'll board the deathtrap and head into the atmosphere.... I meant head home in the totally not unsafe Boeing Starliner....🤡🚀🌎🔥😉
Somewhere along the line something disconnected the people who engineered this and those who fly in it.
They can spin it all they want. The fact is, this mission is not going to plan.
Boeing, Boeing, gone.
Just send Dragon. Like, get it over with.
Could you imagine being one of those astronauts stuck up there? How fuckin frustrated must they be?
Boeing isn't sure that it won't crash unless they wait until all of the helium leaks out. 😳
Boeing is willing to bet the lives of these two astronauts that they can get that "tin can" back home just to save their own (already useless) reputation. It's corporate greed at it's finest...
It's going to be tough to convince astronauts to ride Starliner in the future missions. This could be the one and done mission for Boeing.
Did Boeing tell the truth to NASA about the state of Starlighter before the launch? Did Boeing managers have Starliner get bonuses for the launch? Is Boeing going to tell Nassa the truth about Starlighter before decision is made to try and orbit Starlighter? In the case of the 737 Max, Answers to questions like these concerning what bowling was telling the FAA we definitely know! Boeing did not tell the truth and that enable them to get an original certification for the 737 Max.
Due to the propellant valve problem, the longer the wait, the lesser the propellant
They obviously still do not perform hardware-in-the-loop testing BEFORE a mission... I can't understand how NASA allows them to be that sloppy
They basically have zero faith in that capsule at this point.
This should have all been worked out during unmanned flights. This is ridiculous and an embarrassment.
We are running out of Coffee, and toilet paper fast up here
please send up a dragon ship with food and clean clothes.
Cargo Dragon will probably have to resupply ISS before this is over... Over, probably after Crew Dragon rescue mission...
Looks like Suni & Butch will be there for Christmas.😊 Regarding helium leaks I wish someone tightened those bolts ,wait what bolts.
Thank you very much for posting!
Do they really think we believe that debugging a spacecraft in space is "safe and effective"? The delays mean the situation is more dire than we're being told.
This flight should never have lifted off, they are not ready for human space flight. I hope they don't melt the astronauts or have them burn in and crater.
Great Show - Thanks
> 45 days...
NASA is about to move goalposts yet again.
Not good.
I love watching your videos. Keep it up!
What do astronauts do there ? Looking out the window at the Earth ?😂
They do research that can not be done in high gravity.
Thanks man!
Boeing should revert to the clockwork technology of the 1960s ; it worked well for NASA sending all those missions to the moon
Should have gone with Dream Chaser
Surely the longer it sits there. More and more Helium just leaks into space.
The should leave it attached.
It could serve as an extra toilet.
I say send up a Dragon capsule or a Russian capsule, and bring the astronauts back. There is something terribly wrong to keep delaying the flight back home, it's obvious they dont trust it, they can test forever, but if it isn't ready to come back it never will be. It was a huge mistake sending the craft up with astronauts in the first place it definitely wasn't ready.
All i hear is delay tactics and excuses and more excuses and when every single smart person knows that they are hiding the truth and are afraid to admit it that’s my opinion at least 😅
good shit. ty
There is no reason to have a crew on it coming back because they can work out work out if it's going to be any good if it comes with no one. They say they have plenty of redundant for you built in, but in one occasion starliner wasted all its fuel because the automatic computer system through a wobbly, even if there's the tiniest possibility of failure the best thing to do is come back on a now proven system!
Meanwhile SpaceX did this with no problems 4 ENTIRE years ago, and has already moved on to bigger projects. Remember when they were supposed to be competitors? The competent people have left Boeing and it's just an embarrassment now.
At this pace, the StarLemon will shrink in space, and it will have to be discarded.
What an embarrassment to both NASA and Boeing.
I guarantee the astronauts are thanking their lucky stars that this tin can is so shaky.. they get to spend an extra month on ISS!
They might be the only people happy about this. I bet the Crew Dragon team are laughing though
Just as happy as the Columbia crew was on their last flight.
@@twotone3471 downvote
Oh no we're not stranded.. we're just delayed... indefinitely.
I can't think of what kind of testing would require the weeks that they are allotting to it. Any engineers in the crowd? What are they doing up there?
if this happen to spacex, for sure many will asked their contract to be terminated. no wonder elon refuse to interview with the main media.
"We're not stranded, we can stop being in orbit any time we want, we just don't want to yet that's all"
Yes, we want to increase our flight time (more flight money).
No way I'd get back in that thing.
If they won't I'm sure Boeing will look in on their families 🙄
Perfect, thank you. With Boeing it's always at least two levels worse than they say. Bottom line, when they say they are no closer to figuring out what's wrong than when it launched, they have decided they are not going to be able to find out. On the ground, they always had to take it back to the VAB, they couldn't fix it usually on the pad. So fixing it in space seems unlikely. "Testing" is not fixing. But sure, Suni and Butch can have a light but long tour until the next Dragon, when they can move their seats. Starliner can try to fly home unmanned, like the Russians did with their wonky capsule. I'm waiting for Boeing to declare this flight an "almost total success with 9 out of ten milestones achieved! Let's go!", as with their first disaster flight.
And NASA just jumps right in with sharing responsibility. Stich and Nappi must be best friends. An "integrated" NASA and Boeing team sounds like a crisis management team. IMO Starliner is nowhere near human rated. NASA should make them do unmanned attempts until they get it right. Or better yet, give up. Thing's cursed and will never make money.
"Butch and Suni are not stranded in space, they are just... taking an extra long vacation and don't ever want to come back... ya that's it."- Boeing exec
haha this Boeing circus is a real clown show. I'm gonna say a prayer for those two astronauts though. Starliner should have done several more unmanned missions before humans climbed aboard.
Or at least until Boeing could demonstrate the ship is reliable.
@@michaelreid2329 What's wrong with burning wires, software bugs, non-working parachutes, and non-working thrusters? They all sorta worked, sometimes... Who is running Quality Control? A classroom of 4-year-olds?
They DID do several unmanned tests before flying crew.
@@thomasboese3793oh! You mean include the specification in the QA documents? That's novel!
Future Astronauts want to know: How do you do laundry in space.
extending past the 45-day mission cap will compound the uncertainty, each delay already is degrading certainty everything will work normally on return, but going beyond the cap would accelerate that loss of confidence, so that the decision for return will be based more on hope and prayer than engineering.
translation neither NASA nor BOEING have any ideas on just how bad it is or how to fix this 5.2 billion nightmare
I'm wondering about food/oxygen supplies. Starliner was already supposed to be gone, so keeping two extra people alive is eating (literally) into the supplies intended for the ISS crew.
Well the first Crew dragon stayed at the station longer than originally scheduled. But it’s because the dragon was doing so well the astronauts could help out on the station.
🤦🏿♂️NA, they stranded! 🤷🏿♂️
Here's how starliner can still return to Earth
And all I'm hearing are crickets.
IFT-5 picks it up on the way.
Currently Boeing are into certification of Starliner for human flight. How would a return by Dragon vs Starliner delay this process and is this the reason driving Boeings attempts to keep the crew on board for return? I get that the capsule itself appears safe BUT that is not going to save them and the ongoing delays for more and more testing only confirms that Boeing don't have the answer and know they don't! Flying with fingers crossed is not good enough when crew are at risk even if the crew are "ok?" with it.
If the astronauts will return on spacex dragon in will laugh so hard :))))
I am not sure as a spectator, that I agree with how there spinning this story.
Last time I checked getting your spacecraft human rated was a very strict process.Testing whats wrong with the spacecraft after people are on it seems a little carless to me. Other groups like Space X etc... would have been draw and quatered for something like this. I wish everyone Luck on it and our astronauts return safely.
Good vid. 🙄
Imagine being stuck in space because of DEI.
The fact that they're not letting schedule pressure or fear of bad PR rush them into action before they're ready is a GOOD thing and an actual positive culture shift at Boeing. Rushing to go against the engineers wishes because of the bad PR is how challenger and the MAX disaster happened.
Compare the control systems between the Starliner and the Dragon....Dragon has Touch Screen Controls,
where the Starliner has the old switches and buttons. Dino-Tech can have it's advantages, but in Space
and Science development, not so much.
Switches and buttons are preferred by the astronauts.
@@obsidianjane4413 Because the screens make them obsolete.
@@jtjames79 Switches and buttons are preferred by the astronauts.
The Flintstones has a more advanced version of these switches and buttons...and their wooden yoke is more pilot-friendly....and no helium leaks here.
@@obsidianjane4413 Your programing is showing.
Translation: What else shook loose that we don't know about? Sounds like they are doing a complete systems and hardware checkout of everything. Makes me wonder about all the delays with no planned departure date.
The crew has one function to undock " i hope i see my kids and grandkids after this"
It’s SpaceX too the rescue.
Boeing has become the reference for reliability and trust.aNOT 🤣
You can always trust them to be unsafe 🤷🏻♂️
They have been pretty reliable at being unsafe so far….
So NAS-ING is taking this time to understand how this thing they put two humans in to and blasted them off in to space works? After 20 years and$ 53,000,000,000.00 spent, shouldn't they know that?
Hasn’t the ISS cost over 100B during its lifetime? I know it costs about 3B per year nowadays.
SpaceX started with a brand-new clean sheet of paper...
Boeing started with an Apollo capsule design and 'stretched' it, as they did to the 737 family...
Since the SpaceX design was brand new, it 'had' to be tested many, many times to find every weak link...
With an old 'time tested' design, Boeing built it and flew it with very little testing...
Round wheels are always round, so with a sorta new design, what is there to test? I just know it's going to roll...
@@thomasboese3793 the opposite is actually true. SpaceX started with Dragon 1 and adapted it for crewed launches, while Boeing started from scratch and didn't have an existing design or much experience to draw from.
While Boeing (just like SpaceX) was able to benefit from research done for the Apollo and Shuttle programs, Starliner is not even close to "a stretched Apollo capsule".
The other major difference is that SpaceX built and designed their own Draco and SuperDraco thruster, while Boeing uses much more subcontractors, for example sourcing thrusters from Aerojet-Rocketdyne
I have a question... If the crew normally stay at the station for 3 to 6 months, why did NASA approve a system that had a 45 day limit for human transport? Fine for supplies, but not to keep people there for 6 months.
Marooned!
RIP in advance to the crew that is supposed to return on starliner.
Now we see the results of "launch at all costs" to save the Boeing company any, can we say embarrasment. Screw the crew I guess. Wasn't this test flight to get Starliner human crew rated certification? Surely they will not certifiy Starliner after this, will they?
That was a political statement from Ariane Space. They have been wrong footed, choosing not to develop reusability. Ariane Space, is no longer competitive for commercial customers, so will rely on high value ESA and European government payloads where a 20th century model (very low cadence) is still viable.
Ariane Group is involved with ESA's SUSIE and Themis projects, and is absolutely developing reusable rocket stages
Has CZcams been putting the movie "Marooned" featuring Gene Hackman on your feed, too?
Maybe SpaceX can be nice to them and bring them up a new Starliner in tow. "There ya go!
The Starliner is not stranded in space.
It is just a staycation in space participating in leisure activities with a welcome relief to do more testing and troubleshooting.
It is a normal systematic approach to problem-solving that is often used to find and correct issues with complex machines, electronics, computers and software systems.
Not a problem as far as NASA is concerned.
LOL!!!
Which will happen first? Starliner undocking or starship flight 5?
Easy question to answer: Polaris Dawn's first civilian spacewalk, flight 5 of Starship, and the launch of a crew dragon to the rescue.
If someone at NASA was smart, they would have Polaris Dawn do their spacewalk at the Starliner taking parts off and bringing them back via a cargo dragon.
Yes, I know it is a far-fetched tail from the dark side, but the engineers need the parts to see what the real issue is. The real problem now is the bits and pieces of that satellite that broke up.
Boeing apologizes for a delay due to the lack of "a complement of small, lemon-soaked paper napkins". As soon as they arrive we’ll get underway. 😅😂
They have absolutely no idea...do they?
They know what is wrong but clueless on how to fix it.
The leaks are in a place the crew can't get to or fix them. But without parts on the ground to inspect, the engineers have no idea of the "Who, What, Why, Where, When, and How" parts failed. it's going to be a very long mission.
Right now they do a software fix.
They wrote new software that can handle different emergency situations with thrusters during undocking and re-entry.
Then they will test it on the ground with a real life capsule on the ground.
Then they'll upload it and test it while the capsule is still docked.
If everything goes well.
Else there's more 'testing' to be done.
But else they'll undock and return it to earth.
@rudivandoornegat2371 Agree with what you say...but after the debacle of the 1st demo mission and realized the software on board was absolute pants....it beggars belief that they did not replace the whole code root and branch...again cutting costs they decided to only screw with the mission timing function which was easily identified.
This sounds like a thrust chamber under pressure glitch...maybe from the leaking they knew about before launch
Okay it got worse and presumably affected the pressure in the fuel system but this is rocket science they obviously did not run worse case scenarios where the weakness should have presented itself on the ground.
Boeing had go fever...NASA should be ashamed of themselves for going along with it
When they finally decide to deorbit...bet there are some squeaky bums in mission control for sure
Nasa......we have a problem.....and it's Boeing, Boeing, gone.
I'd be extremely worried considering a window popped out of the second unit while in transit to the launch vehicle......ooops.
More than one persons know the probability of results. There must be mortified to silence.
Basically NASA has some big problems with starliner, but they won’t tell us that.
It's really hard not to be critical about Boeing in regard to the Starliner. Why are they testing the heck out of this capsule after they put two astronauts aboard the ISS with it? That should have been done on the ground. They should have by now returned the astronauts via SpaceX and the Starliner by automated means. It obviously has serious problems.
What determined that 45 day mission cap and why is it no longer an issue? Something's not right here. (Well, aside from all the other cock-ups.)
But don’t say they are stranded, Boeing or NASA or both insist. They are simply extending their unplanned learning opportunity!
Maybe SpongeBob SquirtPants could help out with some helium
Boeing must be rebuilding the starliner while docked. It is time to bring them back home. I hope they did not park in the short time parking lot at nasa.
Why didn’t Boeing do these tests in the window of time that started in 2014? Why now? Team NASA/ Boeing = White Collar Welfare
Because they still haven't figured out the problem with the thrusters issue from the first uncrewed flight of Starliner.
They literally have all those years to figure out why the thrusters failed in the uncrewed launch and years later they basically said "we don't know" and just balled it with a crew without knowing the cause and now this happened
nice you dropped by , when do you leave ??
At least one more test flight should be required before certification.