MESBG FRENEMIES ~ GBHL VS AUSMESBG (Ft
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Eliott and Sean come together and Talk differences between the Australian community and the British community.
is this the beginning of a friendship or is the rivalry already set to deep
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Elliot is such a great ambassador for MESBG and has put a lot of effort into putting together quality content for those of us who are not local but are very much interested in this hobby. Happy to see you and Sean come together, maybe a TTS match since people joke Elliot loves it so much??
No idea where that rumour came from as I've never played TTS in my life 😂
Great Interview. Being a Brit playing in Tournaments over here but I only watch Auzzie CZcamsrs on the game, this was an interesting interview on the differences. Thanks both for spending the time on this.
What kind of mad cross-over is this?? When I saw the notification I half expected to be congratulating the Last Alliance for going over the new spouler first
The crossover to end all cross overs
Frenemies works 😉
We could also be a thruple 😘
-Liam
A Dead Marshes board?! C’mon now… I’m all for variety. A Rohan board with a few houses and some rocky outcrops can look scarce.
But the game was written and structured around the idea that 33-50% of the board would be covered in terrain.
By presenting boards, especially in a tournament setting, that don’t meet that threshold, you tilt the game itself. Things that are priced a certain way become way more valuable and that swing can make the game feel completely imbalanced.
Our thruple isn't the dead marshes 😞
-Liam
Great concept behind a podcast. Was very interesting and engaging.
I think it really comes down to this. The UK has absolute home field advantage.
1. Geography - With the player base being more concentrated (in comp to Australia, US, Canada), it is easier to get more people to an event/league.
2. GW pricing - From what I’ve heard, the models are just cheaper since they are being made in the UK. Easier to generate new players when entry cost into an expensive hobby is lower.
3. Experience - Creator of the game helped start the GBHL. Everyone else is starting from scratch.
What does this all lead to? UK being at a different stage in their community. They can move into a more competitive stage because growing/developing a player base has already been completed. The rest of us, still place heavy emphasis on that stage. This aligns more with not playing uber meta lists constantly as we are more likely to play a game against a newer player.
I think both approaches are perfect for their respective communities based on the stage they are in.
Cheers!
54:59 Regarding the soft score discussion, I can’t help but draw the parallel between the leaders/founders of the individual communities.
ZorpaZorp, known for being an amazing hobbyist. Australia includes more hobby aspects into their tournaments/events.
Jay Claire, rules writer of the game and helped create the first official “league.” UK focuses more on by the book scoring in their tournaments/events.
Love this video!! Really enjoyed listening to what the GBHL gets up to and comparisons of culture and approach to the game we love. Glad that QLD got represented. We need to send Sean and Liam to the UK. Would kill for that content
🤫
good talk
just had a gbhl 90 up in dundee in scotland where we had 4 KKD and 4 ish IH out of 20 players :P love the dorfs
Dwarves are my favourite boys in the game, absolutely love them
-Liam
On soft score, at most QLD events (and generally most Aussie events) the soft score is more about good hobby hygiene. typically the total points of soft score available are worth the equivalent of one major win or less. but more importantly, what the points are given for are things that every tournament player should be doing anyway.
You SHOULD be submitting your army list by the due date and you SHOULD be playing with a fully painted and based army. The inclusion of display boards for points is not uncommon, but not as universal as the first two. A lot of events are transitioning away from requiring display boards for points and more towards just any expression of additional work on the army beyond table top standard (going above and beyond as Sean describes).
The point is, while we do have soft score components at a majority of events, the average player should be getting 100% of that soft score with minimal effort beyond what is required to build an army for the event in the first place. In this sense, it's not so much 'bonus points' as is it a penalty. If you miss out on first place because you didn't submit your army list on time, that's on you.
We do occasionally have events with a greater focus on soft score, where sportsmanship and painting scores contribute more heavily to the overall tournament outcomes, but these are pretty rare. In my experience they are also usually pretty well embraced when people know what they are signing up for. If you know before hand that an event will have a significant soft score component, you really should be adjusting for that in how you approach the event.
For the most part, Aussie soft scores have a very minor impact on overall results. At 95% of events, if you'd be finishing first on the games alone, to lose because of soft score would require you to be running an unpainted army and/or not submitted your list on time.
This feels like a Rhys comment
-Liam
Nice, my two favorite channels combining 👌🏼
😘
🥳
It’s impossible to counter “meta” in North America because we’re so widespread there’s different meta for every area. Gives a lot of variety at events though
We have the exact same thing here, each state kind of has a meta but nothing too concrete
-Liam
Chiming in from California. Is Meta really applicable to this game?
There are so many different ways to play the game and so many ways to counter. If something is reoccurring to the degree where it gets labeled the “meta” players will plan for it and have a counter.
I guess there are some unfortunate things out there that really don’t have a strong counter (looking over at you DE), but we don’t see it ran too much due to the reputation it has. It’s almost like people avoid it because they know (the way it’s currently structured) doesn’t really align with the spirit of the game?
@@Competentetyler I think the spirit of the game definitely helps avoid meta. But I do think there is a “meta”. Maybe not in the traditional sense, but there is an evil meta. Evil armies are podiuming most tournaments more than good is. The strongest list in the game right now is suldadan/ witch king combo.
@@Four_Farthings_Gaming Is it still really going strong? I haven’t faced it personally, but it doesn’t seem to be above being countered. It’s surprising people haven’t adjusted.
Honestly I like the layout of the Australian leagues more. If I'm going to spend a weekend+ prep time I want to have fun. Not slog through a list I don't enjoy/ playing against the same list for 6 games
I'd say the distinction between the GBHL tournament community and the Aussie tournament community is that in Aus the casual, themey players and the competitive meta chasing players are so deeply intertwined that in some cases, a single player is perfectly indicative of both groups. While we do have events in Australia that are more gimmick focused, there has never been a culture of casual competitive events being distinct to hyper competitive events. We all just rock up and play together.
I think scale of the community is a factor here. I find the idea of 'not bothering' with an 80 point GBHL event because it isn't competitive enough a bit baffling, but then again, there are far more GBHL events then there are QLD League events to choose between. Maybe if we scaled up the Aussie player base to GBHL levels we might start to see that split between casual and competitive
Yeah 100%, in Vic everyone is showing up to basically everything
Unfortunately with the size of our community and the fact we are just so spread out here in Australia. We'll never achieve the interconnectedness that Europe has. Not unless the game hits the kind of popularity that would rival the bigger games, Even MtG and 40k struggle to hold themselves together at times.
What is a league and why would we have something like that?
Victoria doesn't have a league but guess who does????? QLD!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I ran Clash and my viewpoint has always leant towards this without prejudice for those who believe otherwise:
Miniature wargamers are like footballers. With the right skill and practise, you'll do well. If you turn up to a game without a jersey though, get off my field you #$%@ing scrub.
I mean that with so much kindness and love ❤
What do you mean by the Jersey analogy? Can you elaborate as I'm not sure I understand your stance and am curious!
Yeah I'm a bit confused by this myself honestly, what do you mean mate?
-Liam
My guess would be no jersey = not painted and based.
im in scotland, but i think my faction philosophy leans more to the aussie side. my underdog to play atm is barad dur cause my unfounded and insane opinion is that nobody else is running it right🥸.(does quite badly in tournaments over here) but i've actually been winning pretty consistently with them, vs decent players as well. but to do that both the list and tactics have to be truly deviant and unnatural.🤣not winning any 'soft' tournament points for best game🤣 i have about 6 armies i wander in and out of but the rest are considered a bit more competitive than the big lad.
How do you run BD mate? Our mate Cal used to run Sauron a lot over here and he played it pretty oppressive, worked out for him tho until people stopped wanting to play it 😂
-Liam
@@NoobsandMen might have mentioned this before on another vid, tiny sauron. three models total (more if there's a min model count but always on the min) you see you cant really horde out barad dur, big 400 point weight holding your numbers down, people just ignore the big guy and quarter you. at 3models,(4 if you tuck a warg away somewhere) they cant ignore him, gam runs until times out or you kill him. lets you grind for as long as possible to get value out of sauron. at 700 been running sauron, WK and wraith on horses. gone 6-1 so far, (only a minor loss because it ended too soon, rolled a 1 after the other guy broke and i needed another turn to win) and 5 of those were objective games. this is not for casual, cause its pretty unpleasant to play against (got to do a lot of skirmishing/magic shenanigans and courage manipulation to win with it, triple Sap Will pretty much lets you do whatever the fck you want magic wise) only for try hard tournaments. out of 18 scenarios i reckon you hav 9 that are odds-on major wins, 8 that are close win/loss and only reconnoitre that you lose. good odds for tournaments, particularly veto. been a theory for a while but now i have real game data.