Gaming BREAKS the NBN | Dirt Report
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- čas přidán 26. 04. 2024
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Hey Pat, really good video, it's great having a channel that addresses Aussie Internet matters 👍
Just one thing, all the old Nerds I know pronounce it "Kayshh" not "Cash".
Cheers mate 🥂
Haha I am still learning :)
"You wouldn't download a game..."
Problem with Australia's NBN is the up speed, 1000/50 is so ridiculous, and if you want 1000/1000 speed, you need to be a corporate business and pay a 4 digit figure. Up speed should be half you down speed, that would make our NBN a much more competitive market and far more enjoyable, especially for streamers and content creators.
Agreed, I would rather 500/500 than 1000/50... but I can't justify three times the price for 500/500
Looking past the fact that GPON is not symmetrical, I would assume that the reason NBN does not give more upload speed is that it would then compete with their Enterprise Ethernet product which is symmetrical.
Remember back when isp's had reasonable proxy servers so everyone in their network could get much better downloads without affecting outside traffic. I'm more concerned about lousy ping than raw d/l speeds.
Given that so many websites are dynamic and not static, there’s probably much less ability or merit to proxies. These days you probably want CDN’s.
All I care about is ping too, never had a good one. I only wanna join the one racing server on fivem, is that too much to ask haha
But yeah heck, now that I think about it, didn't the good isps, like iiNet when they had a name worth saying, offer servers where gaming and downloads wouldn't count to your monthly quota. That was always rad. Or not counting off peak downloads. Oh I do NOT miss quotas lol
@@CyPhaSaRin Yeah, Internode were great for that. Hosting game servers, free content, etc.
@@beardymcbeardface69 yeah like free dlc, quotaless mods. Ahh crazy. Spent all this time remembering stupid shit like downloading Metallica clips on imesh, but I mean that WAS a mission in 03 on dialup haha, but yeah totally forgot about those later years on dsl
Wow! If you're in a remote area on satellite you probably get a whole 2.5MB/sec!!!!
i live in melb and i still had to get starlink getting nice speed no down time :) nbn wont upgarde my house
You live in a remote area, can't expect the same service...
Dude please don’t mix up MB and Mbit (Mb)
Normally I don’t give a fig about typos but this makes your whole thing 10x different nearly. You’re on 2.5 Mbit? That’s savage. You’re on 25 Mbit? That sucks but loads of normies don’t notice - Netflix works fine.
@@D35tr0 We should be able to expect the same service. That was the promise of the NBN.
@@LesVaulter mine goes from 200mpbs to 500+
I know NBNCO & ISPs are reserving the symmetrical plans for business customers. But why aren't the download to upload ratio not 2:1 for the rest of us, as it all contributes to the latency with handshakes. (1000/500, 500/250, 200/100 & 100/50.) These would be reasonable teirs.
This would help facilitate a work life balance and enable more people where possible to work from home and help for a greener future by reducing the need to travel to the workplace.
In NBN's eyes symmetrical upload speeds are purely a business product. To be sold at an extreme premium, and something NOT for consumers.
Latency is a packet round trip metric. It has nothing to do with bandwidth in either direction.
Yep.. I've been getting fibre to our regional sites installed by NBNco (we are doing them - as as a customer/contractor) - And them getting 500/500 connected, ready for an SDWAN conversion.
Getting rid of our circuit-based stuff will be much betterer.
What you’re proposing is that the big payers pay less. They’d sign up for the nice residential product, and then what … we all pay more?
This is like if we made all the seats on a plane economy. It’d be great since there’d be more seats we want at our price, right? Except it’s first class who pay for a lot of most of the plane. You have to have a mix of first class and economy.
Or, you could make the whole plane (NBN) cheaper, which neither party did. Naked fibre to 96% of the country … but that’s an argument for 15 years ago.
Agree. While the occassional burst of extra fast down would be nice, it's actually the shithouse up speed on Australian plans that bothers me when working at home with large files.
A wide spread game update will make the network explode...RIP NBN when GTA 6 drops....
hahah yeah wow it will
Hell will freeze over before that happens
I remember when GTA 5 was a free game on the Epic store a few years back it did cause a bit of a kerfuffle.
So for us existing gigabit plan customers, we get an increase of up to 50Mbps upload, my brother in NZ gets symmetrical gigabit, why are they so damn tight with uploads here?
Cause Kiwi's are smart🧠.Chur bro 🤙.
@@garrymcgaw4745 then why are half of them living in fucking Logan QLD baha
Dunno...Ask them.@@CyPhaSaRin
I’m not phased by low upload speeds personally, but there definitely needs to be an option for people who do want it, but don’t want to spend absurd money on a business plan.
That’s really what it comes down to - You can get any speed you like, you’re just gonna be paying through the roof for a business plan.
Just FYI for everyone reading, standard1gbit residential in NZ is 1gbit down 500mbit up. Its possible to sign up to "Hyper fibre" (2gbit down / up) and end up maxing out at 1gbit symmetrical on devices that only have 1gbit ethernet which a surprising number of people (though not suggesting OPs brother has done this). A slightly nefarious thing Chorus does to sell hyper fibre is claim the pings are better. While that may be true vs maxed out 1gbit the difference is basically nothing under normal load... The majority of NZ is still on 300mbit down 100 up with 1gbit and 500mbit upload being mainly gamers etc.
I'm still waiting for the speeds to become symmetric on fiber.
hear hear in America they've had it for ages. We need it here for consumers for Australia. But only available for business.,
It still baffles me that the max upload is 50mbps
I WENT TO INDONESIA AND THEY HAVE SYMMETRIC SPEEDS. Australian Internet is cooked, the 3rd world next door gets 100/100 for half our prices
It's called enterprise ethernet and a minimum of $300 a month with 36month lock in contract and you can get it 😆
Yeah it's straight up fked tbh that those of us on Fibre.
3:38 - THAT'S ME 🤣. Watched the series, which was great and brought back so many memories about the game. Now I can't stop playing the game.
that's half my steam list bro haha
that and 76 for some reason
No matter what speed I pay for I am lucky to get anywhere from 10-30Mbps!! I was pay for 450Mbps and I have taken the plan back.. I will take it back until the speeds I get match the plan I am paying for!! I am fed up with paying for something I like never get!!
Hahaha why wouldn't they offer fast speed to the 10 people on fibre.. 😅😅😅😅
I mean most of the country is still on copper on the end leg.
My place has no plans to get fibre with a quote of 15k to run the cable 10 meter ls to my house.
And nbn won't talk to you 😅
Fibre is being rolled out now. My area is finally getting updated, but my house is in the second phase. Have you checked via the NBN website?
NBN Co., was able to figure out how to double and triple speeds, but still can't figure out how to install FTTP in houses with steel frame roofs.
I believe that's very much dependent on the technician that's sent to your house and who they work for
Steel frame as in steel trusses?
or do you mean like corrugated iron or colorbond?
Steel frame, as in trusses. I heard that it's the third party contractors that turn down the jobs. I can understand the gaps between beams being a potential issue, but that can be mitigated with crawl boards, some of which we already have in our roof space.
Sadly, due to the multiple levels of inefficient leeches... I mean subcontractors, the guy that turns up at your house only gets a flat rate of $80 or so for the entire job. Which means if you have a complicated situation they will often just walk away or come out multiple times so they can afford to eat.
I’ve given up on gaming because of shitty lag…. In rural Australia especially
I'm currently with Superloop 1000/50 $109/month no dramas with them so far. But I agree with a fellow commentator, we do need symmetrical speeds
just jumped on with SL myself, 100/25 for now. speeds are 108/18 currently
@@CyPhaSaRin I was an ABB customer early last year but been having issues with em, occasional drop outs, so many times I had to reset the NTD and the router cause of it sometimes its beyond my control. But since been with Superloop never had to.
Been with SL since 2020 but left AB on good terms. I’d still recommend anyone like AB or the video’s sponsor, over the big boys like Telstra, Optus, TPG.
@@whophd I'd like to add on Future Broadband and Launtel to that list of the good RSP's over Telstra etc too as my experience with both the ones mentioned was great (currently with Launtel in Perth).
EDIT: Lmao didn't even see the sponsor (thanks Sponsorblock) so I went back and watched it partially and head him mention Launtel lol. Still worth mentioning here anyway just in case others use Sponsorblock to skip in video ads like me.
You CAN buy a symmetrical plan, its just going to be 100/100 or 200/200 etc (in reality your NBN AVC will be whatever standard asymmetric plan that offers enough upload speed). You won't get full rate symmetric though because GPON is not symmetric.
wouldn't you think a windows update is more popular than a game update lol
Nah window updates are small. Games are all crossplay now. So think of Fortnite releasing a new update. That's PlayStation, Xbox and PC all downloading the update at once. Updates usually become available in the evening in Australia so all the kids get home from school and start downloading at once.
@@SenorNavel Also with gaming, doesn't it require faster upload speeds to get lower ping when versing people internationally?
@@RAM_845 Nope, that's a rumour people started. An upload speed of 20MB is perfectly fine for gaming. International pings are determined by your ISP's routing and your location of where you live and where the servers are. A Fibre connection of 1000/1000 isn't going to lower your ping when you cannot move faster than the speed of light. It will just allow more people to use your internet at once without getting increased pings.
@@SenorNavel However, symmetrical speeds will be perfect for video calls too decreases the latency there.
@@RAM_845Absolutely, fiber-optic internet will revolutionize video conferencing and streaming with its speed. While a symmetrical connection might be overkill for daily home use due to the cost, the real advantage of fiber is the minimal latency. Even with a 100/20 Mbps connection, you'll experience incredibly low latency.
Most people with gigabit connections is that it’s a status symbol very few actually use that capacity
Lol you know it costs about $500aud per user to roll out 10gig symmetrical fttp connection. You can keep backhaul unblocked/1:1 provisioned upto about 400gig easy ATM. Infra lasts 25yrs on the pipe side and upgrades to 25 or 100gig are just a rack device and some modules away.
NBN is junk, I was getting alot better connection through Optus's old Cable internet. With that for 10 odd years I had to call in twice for connection issues. Now with NBN it seems to be every second month and all Optus seems to want to do is raise prices. If they increase speeds, it will still be on the same crappy network and the prices will go up through the roof
I was with Optus cable back in the day too. 100Mbps back in 2011 was great!
If I can download a 4K movie / video, I'm happy.
Im still on 100/40 original TPG plan that was $110 a month, I wonder what I will end up getting. Been on this since the early days, I know the same speed is cheaper but im lazy to change. I hope TPG look after me here
Ive have the hardware to multi stream from my computer to a ton of different places like twitch, tiktok, yt, kick and so much more.
The only limiter is the upload speed.
I have come to learn, living in Outback Western Australia, that the NBN is worthless... and I just game on 4GLTE.
'we're increasing all the speeds' .. but also the prices. Great.
Any love for us fixed wireless plebs?? I know there are increases in the pipeline but NBN can’t manage even 25mb consistently on my tower, and don’t even get me started on upload speed. Would be great if some infill to town areas covered by FW would be upgraded before other areas that are already getting 100mb on fixed line get fibre upgrades or gigabit speed increases.
I’m 400m from an NBN fibre pit along with about 75 other houses yet we remain on FW with zero indication of any infill. The best alternative offered is Enterprise Ethernet available for $0 install if I sign up to a multi year contract. Um I don’t have an ABN I’m residential, So no that’s not an option.
Several of us who have complained about speed have had out ODU’s replaced with a gen 3 ODU but it’s done nothing to improve things.
My RSP is great, but they can’t do anything when it’s the NBN infrastructure that’s the bottleneck.
The Fortnite game updates have, are and will continue to cause service issues. I was with Aussie BB and now on Exetel, my FTTP service became unsuable for almost 72 hours - and I'm not a gamer.
The only thing that gets broken is my VDSL connection.
Hey pat how do we find out when our Suburb goes full fiber?
The reason the NBN was created this way was Abbott and Murdoch. See when it was being developed Foxtel still required set top box etc. Now, Netflix was already booming and many other services were already going the way of their own web service. So in short, they were trying to save money for Murdoch media. Every new device these days has updates and a net connection, this is why power bills and net use is going up with passive use. But yes, ultimately we should have had fiber to the home but that would have resulted in profit loss.
I love how ISPs have bneen jacking up Ultrafast plan prices. also i dont trus places dont show monthly bill costs, by day is very suss.
Whats the point to upgrade, when nbn still using copper for my suburb, and it can't hole 11mbps.
FTTN has a min speed guarantee of 25mb, you should complain.
Sorry, i got net back and have gone a bit mental lol.
no where near as bad as 2011 when i got unlimited ADSL2. was doing like 600GB a month for months lol.
My cable connection still outperforms the disaster thats nbn
How to deal with NBN when I have a new address (and not in their DB) and they say "This address is part of a Planned New Development Stage which is not yet ready for service.
No planned serviceability date?" Yet my neighbors have it.
New development? Complain to your developer/builder they probably got the forms wrong or didnt submit them.
I am SOOOO confused. Every time you start playing with the liquid/gas pipes, condensers, values etc my brain hurts.
Great🎉 waste time upgrading the existing fibre instead of rolling it out 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤯
NBN is more than just 1 guy. They can, and are, doing both. And the same for fixed wireless.
NBNCo are shitpanning gaming to setup the extra "gaming level" of speeds 😬
I once saw on a mailing list, possibly nanog, somebody describing the "10 megabit problem". The example given was a hotel, where each guest could use the prodided internet service up to 10 megabits. Not a problem right? 10 megabits is nothing and the network will cope fine, that is until all the guests decide at the same time they want to watch a movie or sports etc over streaming. Lets say its only a modest sized hotel with 50 rooms, thats not many right? Well suddenly you're staring down the barrel of 500 megabits of traffic. Did the hotel buy enough capacity to cope?
So any game release will break the NBN when eveyone downloads it? Them upping upload speeds would fix the issue!
If only fibre came to my area, then this would matter.
I picked a quota (non-unlimited) plan on purpose, when switching to gigabit in 2020. That way I never get slowdowns when download 20 gig ISOs - no, these can’t be cached because they’re not games or OS updates.
I’ve twice exceeded my quota in 4 years. And even then, I was “shaped” to 100 megabits, boohoo
So what’s going to happen to gigabit users? Just a modest upload speed improvement? Seriously let’s get on with 2, 3, 5, 10 gigabit plans.
It won't be Steam since any decent ISP will be running a cache. It will be other tard platforms.
What futurecactus said... Cheers T M P .
1:32 I think you mean "They took a page/leaf out of NewZealand's book" 😁 👍
The took the whole book and used it in their furnace
But yes that’s what I mean
What I don't get you are paying for 1000mbps and they say typical speed 750 so are they selling 1000 or 750?
They are saying during typical peak hours, you'll get 750mbit instead of 1000 during other hours. Reality of them having terrible infrastructure.
@@Valoric I'm considering upgrading do you know if during working hours you get 1000mbps or is really just 750 all the time. I've been on many plans in the past and never exceeded the peak hour performance.
@@justindressler5992 in my experience, "typical speeds" are around 6pm-9pm roughly and only sometimes. But the rest of the day you get full speed. So your good if working hours at 9am-5pm.
well it will break in a few years when star citizen launches officially, today the ALPHA build is already upto 117gb and the games got a few years left of being an alpha build. they want 100 star systems in the final game but we have 1 currently and another one coming end of year. The final install size on release day it gonna be scary big probably like 500gb but who really knows.
if they do this and GTA 6 drops. that will do it
I'm confused with this. I have 50/20 plan and am FTTP
Will I get any speed boosts with this? Or would I have to upgrade to NBN100 to benefit from this?
I downloaded the Fallout 4 update and could only get 7mb/s
My connection sucks!
When they spoke to chorus in NZ did they note that NZ has 2000/2000mbps, 4000/4000mbps, 8000/8000mbps plans for residential customers?
No… ok
No…
Thats because Chorus, and other UFB providers had the privilege of not having their network rollouts and technology decisions turned into a political squabble, with outside interference from Fox/Murdoch. Therefore they did not have the absolute distraction and waste of time and money that was the MTM (Malcolm Turnbull's Mess) and are now deploying 10GPON.
Can you do a video on Telstra’s new plans and billing system
Meanwhile, if you're lucky enough to live in iiNet's (or similar) providers network, we've had fast, reliable download and upload speed long before NBN. NBN was an abject failure from the initial planning all the way through to implementation.
Another person buying the LNP propaganda, No labor was rolling out full fibre in 2013 until the LNP took over, Then changed it to the MTM with FTTN and re-using the optus and telstra HFC.
@@mixmaster1079 Easy way to remember that acronym, its the Malcolm Turnbull Mess (MTM).
100 up is going to be a huge boost for my work.
Just checked with Aussie and they have those plans listed but still only 250/25 option in my app for upgrade. 250/100 is also listed for $20 more than 250/25. Will call them and hopefully I can get 250/100 when it launches for HFC.
*updates Linux*
*NBN explodes*
oops
I honestly don’t know why you find this so hilarious. It makes perfect sense. Regards of the speed offered people will still be browsing Facebook and the Internet and using streaming services. none of that will change because a 15 Mb service is more than capable of streaming and downloading any of that so it will have no impact on the network. Windows updates are very small so they won’t impact the network. What they are stating is so clearly obvious that I don’t see why you find it a joke. The only thing that will severely impact the network is when a popular game has a large update and everybody tries to download that update. ar once.
Are we sure it's games? I thought video streaming would put bigger strain on the NBN, Netflix, Amazon Prime, Stan, Disney Plus, etc... Probably chews up more data than gaming does despite how stupidly big games are getting.
Geeze, if only we had gone with Labor's initial vision for the NBN, then we wouldn't be trying to myguyver up solutions.
You only need 5M for a 1080p stream. 4k is "only" 25M, whereas (in the case of COD and Fortnite) a game update can easily be 10-30GB and you can go your full plan speed downloading it. Plus in the case of a scheduled update more people are getting it at the same time.
GTA 6 being digital in any way, like buy 6 and download online 2? that's def gonna hurt lol
Logan QLD must be chill, too many broke people without land/line internet, 2 different ISP's have given me over the speeds i was put on.
actually, something might be wrong if what you're saying is true, Did you say HFC 100/25 should already be faster now? i do get just over 100, but nothing close to 500
Lots of ISPs "over provision". I usually get 108Mbps down on my 100 plan on FttN.
I think that started when there was an investigation into ISPs charging customers for speeds they couldn't even get.
@@iamdave84 yeah 108 and now something like 263, superloop offer 5 free days a month at higher speeds. I'm on day one, so far so good.
Why did you leave Aussie BB?
No particular reason, I wanted to work with Launtel, same arrangement.
@@TechManPat Same for me but it was just wanting to try something different. Launtel has been awesome in the few months or so that I've been with them.
Is Launtel the one that lets you activate, pause, upgrade for a day, etc ?
@@iamdave84 Yes.
So what about the ones already in 1000mb
You must be rich already :P What have you got to complain about?
@@olivereyre7767 1000mb is not that much more expensive.
Oh terrific ;-/ Well enjoy that. Folks in Sth Tas have had 25/5 fixed wireless as their only option for over 10 years now and the NBN reports no speed upgrades planned for 5 years..
Imagine being on 25/5 for 15 years.... and wanting to work in AI and volumetric video.....
Time for a good 4G/5G modem and a pair of rooftop antennas!
That was my home internet for years until I moved to an FttN area.
@@iamdave84 won't help if the highest speed offered is 25/5. The reception and gear is good etc, it's just a deliberately throttled service. Some mainland can get 3 times the fixed wireless speeds.
I live between 2 towns and just a 22min drive to the centre of a Aus capital city, so not exactly remote. ;-)
@@carylittleford8980 I'm not suggesting you try custom hardware for your NBN FW connection. Like you said that's not the issue.
I'm suggesting you use good 4G/5G hardware to connect to the cellular network of one of the big 3.
I went Optus with Huawei B818 and a pair of slang polarised Blackhawk LDPAs on the roof. I noticed that when connected to 700MHz 4G the connection was slower even with Carrier Aggregation, so I used LTE Inspecteur to blacklist that band from ones it should use. It worked great after that.
Still not even able to recive 100down.
ahhh nbn took me a second to work it out the national FRAUDBAND network. now l remember.
the throttled back network that we have to pay to play.
Whether you have a 25Mbps or 1Gbps, it will make bugger all difference because even if you have a 1Gbps speed, you will rarely ever use it to its full potential. Most of the time, it will be just browsing the web or watching a movie, exactly like most people do right now.
True but it's nice to have those times when you do have a big file to move
@@futurecactus Yes, I'm all for fast speeds, I'm currently on 250/25 and looking forward to higher speeds, but I rarely ever take full advantage of those high speeds, but I take Pat's point that there might be rare times when there is massive spike to large downloads at high speeds, like new game releases and updates.
Try downloading 50 to 200GB games...
@@tristanbackup2536 I'm referring to the difference it will have on the infrastructure, not the difference it may have on individuals who are downloading large files. The story was about the impact on the NBN if speeds go up.
Gaming would have broken the nbn under this theory but it hasn’t. Gamers don’t all update at same time and if this theory were correct that full time gamers will break the nbn then background systems would throttle.
On aggregate, they do. And when the update comes in via transit links vs on-net/IXP based caches or they didnt order thats when the ISPs get into trouble.
Please, for the love of god, can we get symmetrical 500/500 and 1000/1000 home plans
GPON is not symmetrical, so not really.
Gimme more upload speed so I can share my plex server with more family members.
playing games doesn't help you pay your landlords mortgage, therefore it is not Australia's priority.
Alright for flash city folks, what about the rest of the country with NBN WiFi carrier pigeon service. You're moaning about speeds magnitudes higher than we can get.
And outside of town people are dumping NBN satellite for Starlink in vast numbers
Bruh you're tripping balls.
Prices will not go down they will go up. You'll get more bandwidth but the ISPS want more money.
I'm using superloop from my republic. Im on a 50/20 plan $70. Super loop raised my price to $75 and all their other plans have gone up as well. (Inflation)?
The bandwidth is not an issue with homes it's the price. No one uses that much even for two 4k streaming tvs. 250 is plenty. Uploading is still crap.
I don't want to pay over $100 just because ISPs want more money because government make everything expensive.
Thats because MyRepublic had unrealisticly low prices, and the customer/network experience is the proof of that.
Gamers can't break the nbn since there is actually little data transfer during the game. For example: 15 minute game of world of tanks will be a max of 1.5mb of data. So don't see the comment being true at all. maybe all the game downloads could be an issue, but not gaming. I downloaded almost 300GB for two games the other day. lol
Its the updates. Example: COD/Fortnite drops their monthly 30GB update and all the PCs and consoles all slam it at the same time.
Yep, this is what many of us were expecting. After deliberately voting for shit internet a few years ago, now we have to replace it anyway. But like they say, workers voting for conservatives is like chickens voting for KFC.
The best irony of the Malcolm Turnbull Mess (MTM) for me, is that NBN found the operational costs of providing electricity to all the FTTN cabinets, and the repair costs to the copper network cost way more than just installing fibre from the beginning. If only somebody had warned the politicians/public...
@@olivereyre7767 People were trying to warn us, but the Liberals controlled the ABC and silenced them.
oppticommmm
We are so far behind on internet speeds its embarrassing. This is what happens when you let religious nut jobs who hate science run the country for ten years. I'm still on DSL with a max of 60mbps and I can't even hit that because of how degraded the copper is. I'm lucky to get 40 on a good day. If it's raining... try 5 if I am lucky. I've also got a Telstra mobile broadband modem for my business but that's only good when its not peak hour. That gets 380mbps when not in peak hour.
are you american
I'm in an NBN blackspot, but it's OK because it's a low income area mostly full of aboriginal people and those in extreme poverty, like me on disability pension who can't afford to live anywhere else, who are cut off by it. So it's ALLLL COOOL. 12Mbps down, 1.2Mbps up. They won't even switch it over to DSL and give us useable upload speeds, AND THAT'S JUST A SOFTWARE SWITCH. And no starlink doesn't work in if there's trees, or monsoonal rain, or clouds, or a bird flying overhead.