Why Rover No Run Good?! Lets find out...
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 05. 2024
- In this video I tear into the engine of the 1970 Rover p6 2000 SC and find out why we're running on three cylinders... The answer is not exactly what I was thinking, and finding out wasn't exactly straight forward
Thanks to @HaynesManuals for the magnificent book of words.
WHEELS AND WINGS PODCAST STARRING ME AND MY PILOT MATE WYNNE -
• Episode 1 - Vulcan Teq...
FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM OR FACEBOOK @TASTY_CLASSICS_UK FOR DAILY UPDATES AND BEHIND THE SCENES!
BUY TASTY CLASSIC MERCH HERE - tastyrecords.co.uk/product-ca...
SUPPORT MY PATREON HERE FOR EXCLUSIVE BEHIND THE SCENES VIDEOS - / tastyclassicsuk
SUPPORT ME BY SENDING SOMETHING TO PAYPAL - so.da2@hotmail.co.uk
ARE YOU SELLING SOMETHING I CAN RESURRECT? - contact@tastyclassics.co.uk - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I love getting a haynes manual when i buy an older car! I like to see where the grease spots are on the pages to find what causes the most problems! Had one once that was really dirty on the cambelt replacement section . A previous owner had handily written in pen next it "This job is an utter c**t!" Having had to do it myself a few years later I can confirm that he was correct!
😊
My latest car is an Audi A2. No Haynes manual. Bugger.
I repeat my comment in the previous video Ben. The reason that valve has burnt out is not due to unleaded fuels. These engines were designed to run on unleaded. Your issue is the incorrect valve clearance and the heat transfer has burnt the valve out, possibly by the pallet shim dislodging and holding the valve open, or someone has incorrectly shimmed the valve at some stage in it's life. I have seen this on several XJ Jaguars in my time that use the same adjustment system.
Hey Ben. Speaking as an engine Reconditioner from Australia. Make sure that if the valve seats get cut in the repair of that burnt valve the stem of the valve will come through even further so there are 2 ways to fix this. Get your engine shop to take some off the top of the valve stem or take slightly more off that shim. Also check shim availably as you can get different sizes. Have a good week. Marc from Australia 🇦🇺
its funny you mention the washing machine as i spotted that ages ago, i thought it was a great idea for washing cloths, overalls etc, we recently got a new washing machine at home and the old one (which still works but is a bit noisy) is in my workshop!!! so you inspired at least one person
Couldn't find the safety squints so had to wear the glasses, good man
🤣🤣
sniffing head bolts lol i'm glad somebody else does this its an aroma only mechanics know
Why is it so good 🤤
One of my favourite you tube channels. Brilliant content with good humour thrown in. Keep up the good work.
Flaming Nora, nothing better than a big fry up of Tasty Classics!
Absolutely loved this one - I owned a 2000TC as my first P6. Great to see the top end, and a cracked valve as the problem. Some clever engineering to lock the timing there, and the Heron head is unique to the car. There are a lot of P6 owners who will swear that the 2L and 2.2L can take unleaded. I have a 3500 now, but I always put unleaded in with Valvemaster regardless, and had close to factory timing, and that's 20 years of Rover ownership now. Really looking forward to seeing this back on the road. Love your videos, always a great watch and the time flies by.
How nice does the spitfire look.
It looks so nice I would find hard to sell with all the work that went into it and how it looked before and how it looks now, great job done Ben.
I love how those locking tools were built into the actual engine. My engineering head just loves stuff like that. And yes, I was also wondering if the lack of clearance on the exhaust valves was because the valve seats had worn - especially if that head was not built for unleaded fuel. And regarding the Haynes manuals, those earlier Haynes manuals were a dream to use, so much info included, even down to rebuilding gearboxes. The more modern manuals are nowhere near as good as the old ones when it comes to detail.
Ben, have a word with Sheldon at classic Britain CZcams channel, he might have that cam carrier, he specialises in old rovers, particularly P6’s. If he doesn’t, yes, use the old one, but, better to fit a good used one than an broken one.
Engine sounds a bit “bottom endy” though, on start up, to me, but, I’m old and my hearing ain’t great.
Nice, honest old motor though, enjoyed the video, looking forward to the next update on it.
BTW, that Spitfire is the dogs mate !!. Love to see you at 100,000 subs, you deserve it.
Was just about to say that to Ben
@@AUCHTERMUCHTYZZditto
.....all those carriers are line notes, its not as simple as just toss any old one in there
Great to watch you getting stuck into the P6's engine. When a valve is cracked like that all the pressure goes straight out of it. Good luck with the rebuild!
Great video Ben! That heater hose rail, if you hadn't got a spare already, then I would've been tempted to make one out of copper pipe. When I had my 1965 p6, I done what you're doing now and I found it a proper ball ache aswell, along with stripping the rear brakes which I found to be another nightmare. But I still love these cars great shape and very good quality.
Great video again Ben. Good to see an old Haynes Manual with clear photos and exploded drawings, not like the newer ones that I find difficult to see the photos and find hard work to use.
Nice little teaser at the end 😊. Great work again Ben
Brilliant stuff great to see you getting the engine stripped and finding the issue 👍
I really enjoy your videos. Thank you
Just found your channel. Love the content..amazing how you never gave up trying to reverse it out of the mud bath it was parked in. Well done.
Brilliant video Ben looking forward seeing the next video on putting it all together and hope it runs sweet 👍👌
Impressive , entertaining and gutsy repair Ben , well done indeed , and yes especially given that ball ache of a valve adjustment procedure , i learned a lot about that Rover unit from you getting so up close and personal with it .
How you manage to get these things running is just amazing.
Very helpful. Excellent and very interesting video!
Fantastic video, really feel your pain, we don’t realise how lucky we were back in the day just being able to go and take a head off a scrap car and throw it on. Hope all goes well with that cam carrier! She will live again once the head is rebuilt!
That's great progress Ben! Gosh that brings back memories of my dad replacing cylinder head gaskets on his 2200 TC. It was a kind of baby sick yellow colour. Same J reg as yours.... Can still see him there, covered in grease, cussin' n swearin' .... 😂😊
Love the series!
If you need to free up both hands you could wear a go-pro head attachment whilst you work so you can talk to us and have both hands 😄
Hi Ben, I had a 2000 SC many years ago and it sounds like you have a valve seat problem. If the valve or seat has recessed, may be through running hot on unleaded, the valve stem will be sitting higher, closing up the clearance. You can substitute a thinner shim under the tappet bucket or skim it down on an oilstone if you need a few thou thinner shim. If the gap is too excessively tight, you can also skim the valve stem end down on an oilstone and possibly reuse the same shim. There is a limit to how many shims you can use to avoid them moving under the bucket.
If struggling, reach for hammer and crow bar. Love it, enjoyed this, great to see you tackling such a formidable job, hopefully when it all goes back you will have a purring Rover engine. I have every confidence in you Ben.
18:09 is like you’re drawing a map of the Nurburgring on your fore arm! 😂
Thanks for the content.
Cheers Pat 🇦🇺
Really interesting video,enjoyed the prognosis process,all seems to make a lot of sense
That will run so smooth once all is in top nick again. Looking forward to have it all back together again, cleaned and running again. Good luck and have fun
very nice love these rovers all that stuff can’t wait for the next instalment interesting
Brilliant Ben
I just realised what the time was, I’m 3 minutes late but I can live with that. Keep up the good work Ben!
I’ve got the old dishwasher in my shed/workshop its great for cleaning engine / bike parts
The valve clearances are just like a modern (1980s onwards) ohc motorcycle engine. Under the cam you have buckets. Under the bucket, you have the shim, which fills the space between the underside of the bucket and the top of the valve stem. If you have no gap, then the valve is either held open or possibly only just shut. Add temperature and the valve will be held open by expansion! This would support your running ruff and gets worse as the engine warms up. The oil you placed in the bore may also be helping seal the valve to the valve seat, and help temporarily increase compression. Now, gotta question why only this valve adjustment is so tight/non existent - I'd expect the others to be wearing at similar rates. At this stage in the video I'm thinking damaged valve or its valve seat (Valve seat being the head side). Has someone been running unleaded petrol and burnt the seat away? Because cams and shims are so accurate, they generally tighten up as the valve seat naturally burns back, unlike rockers and tappets, where the mechanical wear tends to exceed ( increase the gap) the slower valve seat erosion. I'd measure all the valve gaps now and note these before cam removal. You might be able to swap some shims around to get them all within spec. and possibly only have to replace 1 or 2. If it is just a shim swap, you may still have a damaged seat where the engine has been running, and the hot exploding compression/ gases have eroded the valve seat further. Of course, you may be lucky and a smaller shim cures the fault, saving you the removal of the head. If the head does come off, then get the valve seats replaced so you can run unleaded petrol in future without fear of damage. I'll update my comment, as I watch more of the video, and discover more information.
Update 4 not just the valve...its the valve seat as well...potentially
Where's he putting that pry bar!!?
Love it, another lesson learned
Great vlog can't wait to see what's next
Nice one, Ben
and we're off!
Back in our garage when these were common on our roads, ref the cam and head, get yourself threaded bar, nuts and washers, that way you can clamp everything together to set up the valves with the shims worked ok no special tool needed. P.S the sump drops easy as well.
My old Citroën BX had a similar arrangement of shims to adjust the valve clearances. It ran fine generally but was quite tappety when hot. I looked in the Haynes manual to see how to adjust them, saw what a ballache it was, and decided I'd just live with the tappetyness!
Ben I honestly never knew you even knew what a book was let alone being able to read it 😂, well done fingers crossed 🤞 it all goes back together and WORKS 😁👌🏻.
Had a Laguna engine that I was gunna use in Renault 5 turbo….conversion had a burnt valve jobby…… had it sorted….. had the pistons dished for low compression……this was done 15 years ago ….its still running with a 185 hp …… I’m chuffed with my rebuild…… you should as well when it’s runnin again…. Lovely old motor😎💪🏼
Hi Ben just subscribed, watching episode 3 of the phantom op rover , you remind me of maximus iron thumper a mate of mine on CZcams. Love your channel and enthusiasm patience and wit. Kev East Devon. Got 3 old cars myself and do all the work on them in my workshop.👍👍🇬🇧
Thanks
Washing the old polishing rags is nice to see i knew what the washing machine was for .
So many chanels clean cars and and on every episode they have brand new cloths .
Probably good for wahsing the oily work clothes in to .
Absolutely, and clean mop heads are brilliant!
Hello Ben I'm not sure if any one has suggested this yet. Have you tried a leak down test, you put your cylinder in question on the compression stroke then get a fitting to thread into your spark hole which you connect a air valve then connect compressed air to the valve then slowly fill the cylinder with compressed air and listen for air leaks.if you hear air through the exhaust then you have a bad exhaust valve if you hear coming from the crank case bad rings then air from the carb bad intake hope this helps
Eric
Glad you’ll be able to save the P6, can’t wait to see you get stuck into the new lfd
Great work again Ben ball's of steel to have a go👍🏻👍🏻. The free table is paying off mate 😅. Loving the content and the way you explained it mate. Be careful in the sun I'm strawberry blonde and got burnt camping mate 😂😂😂
Excellent very enjoyable good experience…👍🏻
Mate you are a legend.you take a pile of crap and manage to put it back on the road ..
Unfortunately these vehicles are few and far between these days..I'm in my seventys and can honestly say that over the years manifacturs have made cars that people can't repair themselves .as you are aware of.. the way they are going with stricter m o t . tests .. there will be no petrol or diesel cars on the roads.
However I personally hope that I'm wrong with this.. anyway mate keep safe and well I'm looking forward to the next video of yours.
If it’s easy to drop the sump why not pop the pistons out and check the big end shells and piston rings, maybe swap them out and hone the bores ?
That makes lots of sense - when you are in that deep. Engine already sounds like the Big End shells are badly worn. It should run sweeter, and a new Timing Chain too!
"Almost measured exactly to spec" said every shade-tree mechanic, ever.... on the cam carrier, by the same logic that you would reinstall a broken carrier because there is another good one very close by, it is surprising that the closely-twinned carrier is broken - because there is another close by. Maybe a faulty casting from the get-go. Great episode.
When you confirmed which cylinder was down on compression, the next step is to test if it's valves or rings/ cylinder issue. To test this you add a tea spoon 🥄 of engine oil into the sparkplug hole then re test, if there is no difference in compression then it's a valve issue, if compression returns then it's ring or bore issue 😊
He did that, in a previous video, but I think he used too much oil. It’s very important not to add more than it takes to fill the space between the top ring and the top of the piston. If any oil lies on top of the piston it dramatically increases compression, because oil doesn’t compress. In a severe case it will hydraulic lock and possibly damage rods or bearings.
Ben, when they machine the head and grind in the valves, it could well change all the clearances, also the new exhaust valve could be a sightly different length that would also cause you a problem with the clearance on cylinder 3. You have to tork down the head bolts when taking the cam carriers off to maintain the pressure on the head gasket to avoid leaks when adjusting clearances. I hope I'm not teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but as a boy (I'm 71 now), I worked in a garage and have worked on the cars you have been saving when they were relatively new. Best off luck with this one.
Today I had the choices of Tasty Classics vs Pole Barn Garage vs Mighty Car Mods to watch all of which I enjoy immensely but my favourite has to be Ben & Tasty Classics it was a no brainer Diolch Ben
Diolch yn fawr!
Nice work Ben, I hope you are going to replace all the exhaust valves Ben, they will all let go in the end.
It's 5:02am Saturday, and I'm 16 minutes into this video with cocoa and nice chocolate ginger oaty biscuits. Bliss,
Thank you Ben.. 😅 Always love your vids.
Forgive a silly question: Could the broken cam carrier be welded in some way?
I always do a blow by test using my compressor on each cylinder at TDS on firing stroke. Burnt exhaust valve should be heard by listening at exhaust. But of course you would have had to listen at the hole in the manifold. 😂
Of course using oil in the combustion chamber works ..... but only as a check for worn bores and/or rings where the valves are in good condition. If the oil addition doesn't make any difference then you know it is valves or head gasket rather than rings/bore which are not sealing properly.
Richard
Well done Ben, you cant beat working on the old stuff can you?
I enjoy your videos and respect your problem solving.
If you have time, check out Bad Chad, a Canadian, as he keeps things as simple as possible. He makes paper patterns to make steel repair pieces. He makes flat pieces welfed together to avoid complicated curves etc.
Keep up the good work and when will we see the Sunbeam Talbot?
I always wanted a Rover P6 but I don't have deep pockets! I do have a Rover 75 though, and I think they are brilliant. I've owned it 3 years now and it's so far very reliable.
Nice Rover 2000 SC with beautiful color! I am curious if you can solve this engine problem. I had a 1968 2000TC Britisch racing green,with sliding roof, spare Tire on the back ! I did a lot of work on it myself and it was not pleasant to work on ! The factory made this fantastc car, but forgot that mechanics also had to work on it! So good luck!! Johan
May I ask Who's inline fuel filters do you use and where can I get them from? Cheers, love your channel and have been binge watching 👍
Let’s go Ben ❤
Wow, It's looks like triumph stag! Cool!
No, but it was the first mass produced British all-alloy OHC engine (if you ignore the little Coventry Climax / Hillman engine), the experience allowed Rover to adopt and improve the simpler Buick aluminium V8 and then the Rover rivals Triumph followed suit later with the Stag V8 and associated Dolomite / TR7 slant four…
Try P6 owners club for cam carrier and hoses. They have new old stock spares. Otherwise perhaps you can spot weld the cam carrier if possible.
Top Bloke Ben was cringing every time you touched those manuals with oil on your gloves 😂
Wins have a cam carrier assembly for £200, but it's all of them, not just the front one.
Shims on the Rover I didn’t expect that, having said that thou my 1977 Suzuki gs400b had them
I think a few bikes have them so Ive seen online, bit of a space saving technique?
Did you notice the tips of the sidelight glass are made a little higher so that the driver can tell if they are on at night? I always liked to see that on cars 🙂
The cam lobe pushes the valve open, so no gap at the concentric part means it's always pushing the valve open, and that is the sound of a non-compressing cylinder not firing (hard enough), and potentially causing the valve to hit the piston.
(but in the case of a worn valve seat causing a reduced valve clearance, the valve isn't getting any nearer to the piston, it's just making less and less contact with the valve seat and hence continually reducing the compression until wear begins to balance out evenly between both the valve seat AND the camshaft)
Hi Ben.
Given you want to take the head off, anyway, you could skip the retorque step, after removing the cam carrier bearings. That’s just to avoid damaging the head gasket, if all you’re doing is a cam change.
In your case, you’re popping the head anyway, so the gasket’s toast, no matter what! You might find that in the head removal chapter, rather than following the one dedicated to cam removal.
Back then, Haynes were less inclined to refer you backwards and forwards through the book, to save writing the same sentence more than once.
Oh! Hang on. You’re hoping the valve clearance is simply too tight, and you can solve the problem by adjusting the shim thickness, meaning you can leave the head on.
Or have I misunderstood something?
@@duncancremin1708 That's right. If all you want to do is adjust the valve clearances you need to disturb the head as little as possible and hence the torque down procedure. As Ben wanted to remove the head anyway, the torque down procedure was a waste of time.
Richard
Tony Banks exhausts from Leeds can make a new rear box usually at reasonable cost, a lot of MG guys recommended recommend him.
Great it's not bottom end hopefully all goes well 🙏
Couldn't help but notice you grinding right over your box of teabags! how do you like your tea? Gritea!
I've never done stuff like this, I'd be terrified trying to remember how & what goes back together. I'd end with a box of bits after I've finished! Gulp!
A good idea would be to change the needle and jet in the SU carburettor your stekametricks may well be out of Focus delivering weak mixture to that particular cylinder, if you don't do this that valve could well burn out again....... I've had this experience i never forgot.........💪🇬🇧😂💯✅
One thing you can do to check for a bad valve is put air pressure in the cylinder via the spark plug hole and listen for leaking air sounds at the carb or exhaust.
A leak down test
@@philipbunker146 You listen to which valve (if any) is leaking.
From the outside that Rover looks pretty solid, just wondering how solid it is.
Maybe a Port & Polish. She can take a deep breath without coughing anymore. Better H/P,. Better mileage.
The spitfire looks great you should sell that easy the colour is good that rover been stood for a long time could you simple or a engine rebuild just depends but you won't no till you start stipping it down shame its not a V8 beast 🤔 but at least its a valve but can you just do that valve and just a head build or the whole engine sheldon classic Britain your best to speak to he might be able to help you out with parts or advice he knows them p6 rovers really well and seems a nice bloke good luck with it mate
Was waiting patiently , need a good ben video to cheer me up after the misery I've found on my celica today 😂
Oh no what's up with it? The dreaded R word?
@tastyclassics yup lots of rusty goodness that I didn't see before hand 😂😥 but I shall batter on need to buy a good mig welder soon as I've 4 cars to sort typical toyotas
yay, thank crikey it's Friday :)
Oh yes… the P6 update!
Well, didn't expect that problem to be the culprit, but yeah, an engine originally built for 4 or 5 star leaded go-juice that hadn't been upgraded to hardened valves & seats is going to end up with unhapy valves if lead-replacement additives aren't used in modern alcoholic unleaded... :P
Hmmmm, I can't quite work it out if you're mad or incredibly brave. Either way I'm glad you discovered the root cause of the issue. Lets hope it all goes back together and that the cam shaft is straight and secure. Keep up the great work.
I would not be happy with refitting the cracked cam carrier, Ben. The manufacturers made it in one piece for a purpose.
When it started so easily in the seller’s garden I rather envied you finding it. But with overhead cam and inboard back discs, nah, good luck with that!
You should try an Alfasud. Inboard discs under the scuttle! You have to use The Force, to change the pads, because you can’t see them and touch them at the same time.
@@duncancremin1708 But with Alfas you can always get access by reaching in through the rust holes!
It's not usual 5:10 ( Tom Jones ) 😆😆 Also has it had an unleashed conversion the value gides could be worn making it lose compression perhaps 🤔
I'm at 15 mins and so it looks like some valve seat recession on cylinder 3 exhaust valve. You mentioned unleaded, that can contribute to it on some older engines.
My renault trafic is a bit like that, you have to change the bucket lifters which are different thicknesses, I chose to grind a smidge off of the valve stems, with a finger grinder. Worked a treat😁
In replacing that broken cam cap I think you need to be careful - I'd suspect that they are line bored on each engine so there's a risk if you get one from a different engine that the bore of the cam cap vs that on the engine won't be round and it'll either be tight on the cam when torqued down or it'll be loose... Something to check if you manage to find a replacement?
I have a whole set of used cam carriers, But they will be ship from the US so it will take a couple of week to get to you
.....we got head shops here in Canada, but im thinking its a different type 😂😂
No idea of the costs involved ... but would 3D metal printing the cam bearing be an option to look at ? Would be interesting content.
if the gap is too small the valve will be 'too open' and also the camshaft lobe will hit the tappet too hard (iirc)
mate I love the channel..............would i buy one of your motors??????????.............NOPE.....LOL