When Art Becomes Obligation - a Critique of Fire Emblem: Engage
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2023
- HUGE thanks to Red Panda Games for the gameplay footage of Fire Emblem: Engage! @redpanda_games
When Fire Emblem: Engage was announced, I was cautiously excited. When I started playing Fire Emblem: Engage, I was excited to delete it from my Switch library as soon as possible. Now that this near-seven-month project is done, I can finally do that. So what happened? What made me and so many others feel this way?
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Whew…is it just me or is it gettin’ a little hot in here? ,,:^) Remember to be respectful. Try to explain your thoughts as objectively, extensively and empathetically as possible so others can/want to understand where you’re coming from, and don’t insult others. It makes everyone look and feel a little worse and definitely is not as helpful as it might seem in the moment. Also if you’re coming into the comments after just reading the title and thumbnail for a quick dunk, please don’t. I see y’all 👁👁. Please watch the video first, otherwise many comments are removed from the context they’re discussing. You might just find you enjoy it! Thank you! :^)
If you burned out don’t play
imma try to be concise : Gameplay good, Story is bad at the start, but has some good points that serves the gameplay(chap 11, 22, 24). It's one of the best in terms of gameplay (Thracia better imo), and it's in the first half of the better stories in terms of FE games (better than Fates, Archanea games, Sacred Stones, . If you want good story, play Xenoblade Chronicles or Trails in the Sky, but Fire Emblem especially has a problem finding balance between good gameplay and story. It's a tactical, so i still think the gameplay should be more important than story. Of course in the more turn-based games, gameplay can be not that good (and Octopath Traveler's gameplay is probably one of the worse modern turn based games, and the stories are still enjoyable)
Also, for FE Engage being an anniversary game, it is, and it rewards fans who can recognize some maps even in main chapters (chapters 7, 11, 18, 23) . Also some re-used leitmotifs from previous OST, that are well hidden in Firene's battle theme for example (with the ark of dawn, and lionheart eldigan).
Finally, I'd say Alear is the best avatar character we've had thus far. He makes mistakes, loathe himself, and isn't a silent MC. Of course, not every character is perfect in this game, and most of the supports are goofy, but remember that writing 30+ characters in a 50 hours story isn't easy, and it's not what Fire Emblem is about.
@@fen6300 If Fire Emblem isn't about your connection to the characters, then what is it about? Why did the devs say that you bonding with the ensemble cast was an important part of the game and something they were striving to achieve? Personally, I think at the very least semi-likeable characters outside of gameplay is nearly a must in a game that expects you to painstakingly plan to try and keep just one of the characters alive. Engage is the only game where I've considered not resetting when my characters die because I just didn't give a shit about them.
@Iamnobody543 What?? Huh. You're saying that the game isn't supposed to have multiple likeable characters then defined the system the game uses to make its large ensemble case likeable.
@@jeezi3620 nah the characters were here in case your other characters died in the first place. In Monshou no Nazo or Thracia 776, some characters don't even have a single line (maybe except recruitment and escape lines). Yet the story is still really good in those games, and a few characters really shine. It's the exact same with Engage.
They say a man dies two deaths. Once, when you stop breathing, and a second time, later on, when they turn you into an emblem.
LMAOOO
This comment, is the strongest vibe of Engage criticism.
Fucking oof
Sounds like taxidermy to me.
One thing that still baffles me is that the death of Lumera, who was a benevolent goddess who actively participated in the lives of the people in four countries and was the enemy of a another, wasn’t set as a catastrophe for the society. She’s practically a stranger to them all, and the flat nature of them parroting “Sorry for your loss” feels like the generic sympathy people offer because they want to be kind to Alear.
Alear having to step into Lumera’s position after her death violently shakes the delicate foundation of Elios could’ve also been a great starting point and explain why 99% of the cast are royals and their retainers. Even Veyle being a Fell Dragon joining Alear would be a huge moment since that puts the two opposing Diety Dragon factions worshipped by opposing countries if Sombron is gotten rid of.
Bleh.
It's such a weird beat. Especially so since it's basically lifted from 3H where they also did it better.
Dude this was my thought immediately too. Like, their GOD, their diety, the thing they worship is dead and everybody is just, mildly sad about it. Completely baffling.
I couldn’t take her death seriously since she had a monologue so long that it made the switch to rest mode.
Someone once described Engage to me as "If ChatGPT were asked to write a Fire Emblem plot", and it's the most accurate statement I've ever heard about the game.
Out of curiosity, I decided to try just that. I asked ChatGPT “Write the plot to a Fire Emblem game.” Here’s what I got:
Title: Fire Emblem Chronicles: Legacy of the Astral Realms
Plot:
In a land once ravaged by an ancient cataclysm that split the world into separate astral realms, the peaceful kingdoms of Arcadia and Valeria now exist on the brink of war. The realms' fragile peace is threatened when dark forces from the shadowy astral realm known as Netherum start to infiltrate both kingdoms, spreading chaos and corruption. As the last living descendant of a legendary bloodline, the player assumes the role of a young noble of Arcadia named Alexia/Alexander (gender option), with a mysterious past.
The game begins with a fateful encounter between the protagonist and a young knight from Valeria, Elias/Elena (gender option). Elias/Elena warns Alexia/Alexander about the growing darkness that threatens to engulf their world. The two decide to set aside their nations' differences to confront the shared enemy and seek a way to reunite the astral realms, hoping to restore balance and prevent all-out war.
To achieve this, Alexia/Alexander and Elias/Elena must build a diverse army of allies from various backgrounds and regions, each with unique skills and abilities. The characters they recruit have personal motivations and stories, adding depth to the game's narrative. Throughout the journey, they uncover the forgotten history of the astral realms, the truth behind the cataclysm, and the role of their ancestors in shaping the world's destiny.
As the heroes travel through the lands of Arcadia and Valeria, they face challenging tactical battles against corrupted creatures, shadowy assassins, and powerful warlords controlled by Netherum's malevolent forces. The gameplay follows the classic Fire Emblem formula, with strategic turn-based combat and deep character progression.
Key points in the plot include:
Unraveling the Prophecy: As Alexia/Alexander and Elias/Elena delve into ancient tomes and mystical prophecies, they learn about a legendary artifact known as the "Astra Prism." It is said to possess the power to merge the astral realms back together and restore harmony.
Moral Dilemmas: Throughout their journey, the heroes face difficult choices that shape the game's narrative and determine the fate of characters and even entire regions. Loyalties will be tested, and alliances forged in the face of adversity.
Betrayal and Redemption: A powerful figure from Alexia/Alexander's lineage emerges as a central antagonist. This character, once thought to be lost, has succumbed to Netherum's influence, leading to emotional conflicts and a chance for redemption.
The Final Battle: As the forces of Netherum grow stronger, the final confrontation draws near. The heroes must lead their army against the malevolent force threatening to engulf the astral realms in eternal darkness.
Bonds and Romance: Along the way, characters form deep bonds and may even find romance, enriching the story with heartwarming and emotional moments.
In the climax, with the fate of the astral realms hanging in the balance, Alexia/Alexander and Elias/Elena must make a heart-wrenching decision. Ultimately, their choices and actions determine the game's multiple endings, revealing the legacy they leave behind and the impact they have on the world's future.
@@AdamWielgosz How does an AI generated fire emblem sound better than engage 💀
AI, so far, is a generator of predictions (in this case, words that describe a Fire Emblem game). Since most Fire Emblem games are good, even a generic, AI-generated Fire Emblem-like plot is likely to be far better than Engage’s story.
It’s also possible to sum it up as “Genshin’s Bizarre Emblem”
I literally asked ChatGPT to write a fire emblem plot because I wanted to see how close it would be, and I was shocked to find that it was actually better than Engage.
A phrase that comes to mind is "Complicated, but not complex."
i think it also describes a lot of genshin impact's writing
One word: "Convoluted".
A work being Convoluted is, at least in my experience, most commonly exhibited by producers trying to build upon prior success while not understanding why they were successful in the first place.
Oh the examples I could list...but I'd be here all night if I did that. So, that's all I'mma say on that.
Sorry, but a small nitpick with your rewrite ideas. If its all about family, why are there no car chases?
LMAOO Yall gotta stop showing me up with better jokes in my own comments section 😭😭😭😭
Make the somniel a flying car
And to add, Lumera have been around for like, at least 1000 years?
I feel like the writings team really really underestimated how long that is. That’s like around 30-50 human generations.
Lumera being dead should be like, a very “wait? wtf? seriously? wait do have a contingency plan for this?” type of situation.
I totally agree with this. It's so baffling to see how nothing has changed in 1000 years in Elyos. Not the way the world looks and works, the way the characters talk or act... Not even the clothes they wear. And the function of the Divine Dragon in that time is so vague, it's hard to understand why people like them/need them so much. Argh. Thank you for watching and leaving your thoughts! :DD
engage and sacred stones have similar-ish plots. To water it down: lord's parent dies, the villain country attempts to resurrect/summon an evil entity, lord goes on cross-continental search for the mcguffins that will help stop the evil bad guy. The main difference from what i can tell is that alear doesnt grow like eirika/ephraim do. Eirika hates violence, possibly as a result of her sheltered lifestyle, but she learns throughout the game that she needs to toughen up to defend her country and avenge her father, this culminates in the climax of the game where once she attempts to return to her naive innocence, she is punished for it by lyon stealing the sacred stone. eirikas arc is enhanced as ephraim acts as her foil, wherein his over confidence and brashness is ultimately what he gets punished for in his climax, showing that the twins contrasting personalities and beliefs work better together than separate, which is shown in the end where they decide to rule renais together. furthermore their arcs are made better by their established relationship with lyon, making him a beloved villain in the franchise. alternatively, as you mentioned in the video, alear has practically no arc or any characters to bounce off of to show their growth, but they would have in your family-centred rewrite.
Not to mention Ephraim didn't want to be king at first and just wanted to fight on the battlefield and had to learn that he needs to take up the throne
basically Alear is such a normal character it's his biggest weakness as a character.
literally. He's the only that doesn't have a prominent flaw aside from being scared of corrupted (which gets remedied in the same chapter). and from the trailers, it shows that Alear was supposed to be conflicted from his past self, and how drastically different they are from each other. Present Alear advocates for peace while past Alear rejoices in violence. that trailer alone provided more concept of character growth for Alear than what we currently had
@@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8eeDoesn't help that the cast literally worships them yet the story presents very little of the character to admire.
@@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee Tsutomu Tei the director of this game only worked on map design in previous FE games, but not the story.
Whenever I hear someone say Engage has a simple story I immediately think "oh you haven't played Shadow Dragon". That's a game with a good simple story.
I mean they're both simple stories. Shadow Dragon is just simple in a different (better) way.
Whereas this game is simple in the way that "they didn't put much thought in the plot or characters."
I'd argue Three Houses wasn't that well thought out either plot wise
Marth's and Caeda's talk in the ending may be a little cringe but it's good, it was the only time I cringed with a Fire Emblem game until I played Fates
@@Handles_be_dumb How so? As someone that absolutely loves the story of this game I'd like to know why some people aren't fans of it, out of curiosity more than anything really, since most people that hate on FE3H just don't give any actual argument outside of bland insults, at least from the comments I've seen ever since the game launched :/
@@alineSann Byleth's character is the weirdest one. They want the students to develop a deeper bond with him, but Byleth never expresses emotion beyond the odd smile. It makes the deep bond between teacher and students seem forced.
The timeskip also kinda comes out of nowhere, and it's SUCH a crucial plot point. He just falls into the earth and emerges years later, no explanation necessary. The obvious solution was that Byleth NEEDS to sleep for years to awaken Sothis' power, and him actually doing that would show how close he is with the students.
There's a bunch of other points, but these 2 show off why I find the story so frustrating. Three Houses has all the pieces for an amazing story, with incredible worldbuilding and character writing. But it consistently puts these pieces together in ways that make very little sense once you stop to think about it.
0:00 Prologue - _The Meaning of Art_
4:00 The Reason for the Video
7:50 Part 1 - _It's Simple!_
8:00 Story Summary
13:55 Thesis
15:51 Part 2 - _Complexity Without the Work_
19:04 Show-Don't-Tell
22:38 Alear
28:45 Sombron's Brilliant(?) Plan
30:39 Marths Be Like / MacGuffin Count / Sovereign Blood
35:03 Alear 2: Danganronpa Dialogue Boogaloo
43:21 Lumera's Exposition Extravaganza
46:51: Comparison with the beginning of Octopath Traveler II - Hikari Route Prologue
56:46 Part 3 - _Obligation_
1:01:32 Fire Emblem Gacha and DLC
1:11:44 What exactly are we celebrating, again?
1:15:08 Part 4 - _Passion and Purposelessness_
1:17:31 Looking for Meaning
1:24:40 Deathbed Justifications
1:32:27 Lack of Focus in Characterization
1:43:26 Part 5 - _What an Angle Can Do_ (Or, Rewrites)
1:43:26 The Emblems
1:45:25 The Theme
1:53:14 Alear III: The Search for Family
1:59:43 Conclusion - _Why does it Matter?_
2:03:13 Why is Engage's Gameplay... Good? (Let me explain...)
2:08:22 Big Thankie Spankies
I can tell you why the beginning of Engage was a fake in medias res.
Its because ever since Awakening, every game except 3 Houses and Hopes has had either a dream sequence or an in medias res opening. Even the first Warriors did.
It's because Awakening's opening was fucking great and a masterclass in misdirection, as the opening DOES happen later in the game, but its a trick from the heroes to fool both the player AND the villains. Even better, the opening scene DID happen and Chrom DID die, but it was all in Lucina's timeline. It was all in one a misdirect, a glimpse into the future AND the events that led to Lucina coming to save the heroes. A+ writing, which is very weird because the rest of Awakening is like a C in terms of writing.
This was, more than a critique of fire emblem, it was an essay on good storytelling. Bravo! greetings from mexico!
Thank you so much!! :,,^DD
"The beginning of a story is the most difficult part to write."
*Berserk's very first page: allow me to introduce myself*
LMAOO
I've kinda struggled to articulate what exactly I dislike about Engage without just stating surface level stuff like the contrivances, cliches and the characters being one note, but this is spot on. 2 hours well spent.
AA Thank you so much! :^D I’m glad I could properly represent your stance on Engage!
Don't mind me, just posting some timestamps. This is a fantastic video essay, I just felt it could use a bit of navigational aid since it's so long.
0:00 Intro - Art and meaning
4:00 Intro to The Writer's Almanac: Fire Emblem Engage
7:51 Part One: It's Simple!
13:57 Story reactions and pitfalls
15:52 Part Two: Complexity Without the Work
18:58 Show-Don't-Tell vs. Contrivance
22:39 Alear analysis
26:38 Answers that raise more questions
28:46 Sombron makes shit up
30:39 Marths be like
32:21 Contrivance over an entire story
35:03 Alear's Danganronpa Dialogue
37:08 Player worship, a.k.a. I'm ThE dIvInE dRaGoN
43:21 Lumera gives exposition and fucking dies
46:51 Octopath Traveler II - Hikari Chapter 1 comparison
52:34 Engage is not a "simple story"
56:44 Part Three: Obligation
1:01:33 Fire Emblem Heroes comparison
1:04:34 Engage's visuals
1:06:27 Gacha, advertising, and DLC
1:09:13 The Somniel
1:11:44 A soulless product
1:15:08 Part Four: Passion & Purposelessness
1:17:13 Engage's lack of meaning
1:21:57 The Emblems do nothing
1:24:40 Deathbed monologues
1:32:26 Character writing
1:43:26 Part Five: What an Angle can do
1:45:25 Pick a Theme and Pray!
1:53:12 Rewrite concept
1:59:42 Conclusion: Why Does it Matter?
2:03:11 Why is Engage's Gameplay Good...?
2:04:35 "Flying too Close to the Sun?"
2:08:25 Outro
If anyone has other suggestions as to what other important or useful timestamps could be, tell me.
Shoutouts to @givecamichips for making a comment like this months before I ever thought about it, lol.
GOATed comment. And replying to push it up some
1:08:00 The funniest part of Engage being meant to advertise Heroes is that FEH currently has an Engage-content *drought* problem.
The game has not gotten an exclusive Engage banner for over *5 months* (and just recently, Ivy was added as the *sole* Engage representative of the current summer banner), which stands out as both Shadows of Valentia and Three Houses got far more love around their launch time in FEH. Some people speculate the devs might be trying to create some "Engage thirst" so to speak, while others (like me) wonder if they instead got hit by cold feet due to the game instantly losing all of its momentum due to WoM, unlike Three Houses who by comparison just refuses to stop selling.
OMG I KNOW RIGHT I sort of keep Heroes news in my peripheral (because shh don’t tell anyone I love what they do there with the different art styles and all of the different designs/artists it’s really cool) and for every day that passes where they don’t release any Engage related things I have to sit here thinking…so what was like…the point of allat? 💀
Feeling stupid rn, but what is WoM?
@@tf7340 Word of mouth.
That's probably more due to how unmemorable Engage is. There is nobody asking for this characters because there is nothing apealing about them beyond base value. And Fe has too many characters that go beyond that.
@@Noahs_ChairI don’t know about that, since people rally behind characters with barely any plot relevance and/or lines (like Vyland)
What the fuck? The point on Alear being baffled at what a mercenary is to Byleth is extra stupid given Alear asks Yunaka in their C support - which you'll PROBABLY get since they have to spend all of chapter 6 together - if she was a mercenary before becoming a thief!
Oh my god…that is hilarious…I know I got Yunaka and Alear’s C, but that must not have stood out to me. I wish I noticed it while I was making this video. It’s so crazy to me how inconsistent the dialogue is in this game. Thank you for letting me in on that LMAO
As someone who was deep into fire emblem during Three Houses life cycle after never being into a fire emblem prior. I was hyped when enaged released i was ready to see another intresting narritave experince. Then i got into the game and the characters started talking. I never dropped out of a game and a series so quickly. Hopefully they redeem themselves with the next game or i probably won't be coming back.
Someone else commented on this already, but there was a dev interview that explained that the supposed central theme is one of personal identity, and the most annoying part about all this is that plenty of CHARACTERS get to have in inherently optional supports.
But then, the inherent gameplay mechanics render a lot of that unable to manifest itself in the MAIN STORY because, well... a dead character can't say anything.
And when the core theme of a game is that of exploring the ways that bonds with those you know and care about can affect you as a person (expressed most directly with Alear literally changing form several times as a direct result of the whole Emblem thing)
Well... when the people in question have to be written around potentially NOT EXISTING, then inevitably things fall short.
Fire Emblem as a whole falls into this trap... a lot, actually, because it has to write around permadeath in a way that not many franchises have to DO on such a grand scale, with nearly every game having 40+ characters that you can use in tactical gameplay that, in many cases, can lead to them getting killed, resulting in nearly all of those characters, save a very select few main characters and the relevant recruit of the given chapter, getting maybe 5 lines of dialogue in the main story and... that's about it.
It's a huge shame, too, because a lot of Fire Emblem fans (myself included) have noticed that many of the games struggle to balance the inherent realities of permadeath in a role playing game with the characters they are intent on marketing that you can play WITH.
One of the core ideas behind the franchise as a whole was actually supposedly inherent replayability FROM said permadeath forcing you to alter your strategies by changing up which characters you have to use, but with the newer games this trend has fallen off resulting in a franchise both DEFINED by its permadeath, but also actively held BACK by its permadeath.
Nowhere is this more present than Engage, where the inherent idea of being able to choose who you want to be ends up being shackled to tropey, hokey writing that inherently defines a character around one or MAYBE two central traits, and then only later develops characters into explaining WHY they act in such a way across entirely optional support conversations that for a few months were nigh on IMPOSSIBLE to obtain in any reasonable amount of time.
Like, Yunaka for instance has an ENTIRE ARC about her being a former ASSASSIN for a known guild and her trying to move past that, but if you don't get VERY SPECIFICALLY her support with Citrinne and to some extent Alear, it just... doesn't happen. Nearly all the characters have one crucial support where their identity is EXPLORED and it is shown how they want to shift or establishes why they act as such, but then the rest of their supports... don't.
As for the question as to why the gameplay is generally deemed GOOD:
It has a lot to do with mechanical implementation.
Simply put, Engage knows what mechanics it wants to emphasize, what strategic goals it wants to encourage players to achieve, AND gives players all the necessary tools to take any unit and achieve the goals set in the form of the Emblems, the subsequent skills they provide to units, and the classes that units can be placed into.
It cuts away some of the fat of macro level material management in places that doesn't need it, and adds in fun extra portions of micro management to spice up what would otherwise be rather cut and dry combat mechanics.
It's, quite, honestly, a very enjoyable strategic experience, but it's facilitated by a mechanic that the story provides almost NO WEIGHT to whatsoever.
It's the most emblematic (heh) instance of IntSys's chronic struggle with interweaving interesting gameplay concepts on a simplistic yet fun strategic and tactical formula with a story that actually BUILDS ITSELF around those concepts.
Unironically I feel like Awakening achieves the most intense blend of both of those aspects and the result was a horribly balanced, broken mess of a game with one of the most busted units FE has had to date, and a story that after its first act falls of a cliff with shoehorned conflicts and lacking build-up for... anything (and also serving as inspiration for Engage's prologue trailer bait because in Awakening, the corresponding scene DOES happen in the story as set up for the final act)
Thank you so much for watching!! Yes, I agree that there are always glaring ways permadeath in FE hurts the storytelling and characters. A long, long time ago I remember thinking “why don’t they just get rid of it?” And then I actually played maddening/classic in 3H (AM), had an absolute blast, never played it another way ever again, and realized exactly why permadeath is so important to facilitate realism and pressure. There is definitely a perfect way to do both, and I hope they can achieve that happy middle someday. Thank you so much for watching and explaining your thoughts!!
@@CamelinCD Probably the best way to handle permadeath, in my opinion, would be to do it like Langrisser kinda does it: permadeath alters the route you're on. If you lose a key non-Lord character or fail to recruit certain ones, you get steered towards another path that accounts for their lack of presence. So for example, by Chapter 5 you can choose to betray your allies and join up with the Evil Empire (with maybe a few plot-unimportant characters joining you) but if your childhood princess friend is dead your character is forced to join up with the Evil Empire because the kingdom she and you came from marked you for death for being a traitor.
So losing characters doesn't just force you to alter your strategy, it changes what maps and challenges you see. Furthermore, certain routes and decisions will cause your army to abandon you, so there's no need to keep them alive in order to have plot-critical characters: because who counts as plot-critical depends on what route you're on.
You could even do things Wing Commander-style where if you do poorly enough, you get put on a 'Failure Route' where there isn't really a satisfying conclusion or even a Pyrrhic victory. You just get to control whether your character and a small circle of friends (if any) survive the apocalypse.
Another good example of the support stuff is Alfred & Celine’s A Support. That one support LITERALLY made me go from thinking the guy was some jock wannabe to ACTUALLY caring about the dude and he shot up to one of my favorites in the game. It should’ve been their C support, and then they build from that. A lot of people drop the Firenese characters after the Firene arc ends, so how many people are going to try and get the A support between Alfred & Celine if they don’t actively have an interest in them?!? A bit sad imo.
I was looking for a comment like this. All of the best writing in this game, all the stuff that actually makes you care about the setting and about the characters, is locked behind support conversations. I might be in the minority with this opinion but I found the supports in this game to be pretty solid. There’s DEFINITELY some that are better than others, in fact a good chunk of them are pretty skippable, but at its best they made me invested in the characters and their relationships. But the entire time as you’re watching them you can’t shake the thought “man it would’ve been pretty fucking cool if the actual story was written like this!”
If you were worried about writing a bad beginning or hook to this video, don't. The intro on what art was made me think, and then the hard cut to giggling over Engage made me snort my coffee and stay for the vid. A lot of Fire Emblem fans try defending Engage saying it's supposed to just be a simple story, but simple stories still need good writing. It was hard for me to articulate how but you did it better than I ever could. This was an amazingly well written video essay that I thoroughly enjoyed while on my bike ride, can't wait to see what you do next!
Thank you!! Wow, youtube and a bike ride. That sounds like fun. I agree-there’s so many external excuses floating around for this story that never really address the story for what it’s presenting…I’m glad the intro of the video resonated-the beginning is one of the most important parts after all! Thank you so much for watching :^))))
It should be noted that Engage’s reception was actually pretty divisive. While the gameplay was almost unanimously praised, it was also widely criticized for the writing & character designs.
Definitely! Just as I feel like there are some cheap jabs at the story that don’t really explain much (even though I might understand the sentiment), I also feel like the gameplay is given too much credit at times-I don’t feel like it’s the standard the series should be held to going forward, and I hope it isn’t. I didn’t get into it in this video because it’s a whole other can of worms, but I definitely think “gameplay good story bad” is way too simple for all the ways those two things effect each other, negatively and positively.
@@CamelinCD Why do you believe the gameplay is given too much credit?
@@Danitron904 Probably because of how many mechanics it gets rid of, downgraded or replaced with something worse, while being more gacha designed to make people play Heroes.
I agree with the sentiment that just because a game doesn't try with its story doesn't give it a free pass from criticism. People will usually bring up games like Mario as an example for having no story but good gameplay, but Mario's selling point has never been about the story. A Mario game will still be fun regardless if it has a story or not. Fire Emblem can't lean into that because it is a strategy RPG that needs a narrative to push its gameplay along. The problem with Engage is that it insults your intelligence with how many deus ex machinas and plot contrivances are littered throughout the story. It also plagiarizes a bunch of ideas already used in Fates and Awakening, which is no surprise considering the scenario writer for those games also worked on Engage.
That notion for Mario has kind of been dying out though because of what happened with Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, and how Wonder is the first 2D Game that's actually trying to be interesting and creative in years.
Edit: not sure what to think now since Thousand-Year Door HD is coming
Also, this might be a me thing, but it feels kind of pathetic that that we are bringing Mario into this even though both series are of different calibers. Mario, outside of the RPGs, are more gameplay focus while Fire Emblem is more story and character focused. Hell, you can replace Engage's "characters"with the Mario characters and you will care more about them than Engage's cast.
@@aaronbeasley974 Tsutomu Tei the director of this game only worked on map design in previous FE games, but not the story.
That rewrite with family as a central theme is actually so good that now I'm fucking pissed that it's not in the actual game.
HAHA Thank you! The worst part is that the setup was all there just waiting to be paid off…. Thank you for watching! :^DD
It's almost impressive how much they dropped the ball on the story. It feels so obvious and easy but at the end of the day Engage chose hollow fanservice and false weight
Totally agree! The game could have had a decent story. Excellent video.
Same here man.
Yea it almost make me cry with the second dead of a character, that is something amazing and hard to do!
I love how the entire conflict is artifical. Why couldnt they couldnt they just give sombron the rings and let him leave? Even more stupid when you remember that the fell xenologue shows that elyos is entirely dependant on the divine dragons being alive.
Better question, why didn’t Sombron just ASK for the Rings so he could leave. Instead he waged a continental War because his friend disappeared.
This is what happens when a writer tries to bloat each aspect of game in order to appeal to the largest audience possible when all people want is a game that treats them like adults, not kids
@@eternaldarklight8204 Tsutomu Tei the director of this game only worked on map design in previous FE games, but not the story.
For being an anniversary title, I was really shocked and disappointed by how wasted the previas main characters were. Like if we are gonna have a dumb fanservice game, why not go all out and have them be the main ensemble? Why don't the bad guys summon former villains? Imagine Marth and Lucina training together, or Edelgard and Sigurd fighting Arivs. Stupid maybe but it'd atleast be dumb fun
Completely agreed! I had a segment that I cut out talking about something similar-seeing as we fight Sombron in the portal to other worlds, I was expecting them to teleport the player through brief snippets of a bunch more iconic maps throughout the series (and simultaneously contrive some reason why the Emblem paralogues existed? They never explained that), like they’re chasing Sombron through all the worlds, and then finally end on the random rock in the portal. I was also expecting Alear to like…turn into a dragon at some point-which is how they would follow Sombron-because there’s a segment in one of the chapters in Brodia that sort of foreshadows that, but nothing ever comes of it. Something tells me that’s what they had planned, but ran out of the time/budget/care to do it.
Well, that's kinda what Heroes was already doing, though that calls into question a lot of things that Heroes kinda already did, even sometimes better, although a better story is a pretty low bar.
I watched a compilation of the end battle boss special dialogue that added each boss’s respective battle music to the scene. It totally enhanced the experience and made what Engage did feel even more tacked on
fire emblem dissidia lets fucking go
Exactly. Won't even let us play as Ike and Roy, despite being a """celebration"""
Great video! I particularly appreciated how you explained why the "Engage tells a simple story, so it should not be held up with too much scrutiny" argument handwaves the various problems with the plot and is a disservice to stories that are actually simple and still manage to be compelling and well written.
My only nitpick is your final quip about how it wasn't hard to ignore Three Houses in this discussion. While I do get that the main point of the video was to show how Engage's story fails on its own merits, in my opinion when talking about a product in a long-running series there's always value in talking about what came before, and how it compares to it.
It's especially important in Engage's case because one argument that is often used to defend its story is that "Fire Emblem games always had bad stories/writing, why should Engage be criticized so much when it's not much different from its predecessors?", and as long time fan of the series this bothers me greatly.
Now, it's totally fair to think that FE stories are bad in general, but I personally think that, regardless of personal opinions, it should be conceded that games like Genealogy of the Holy War, the Tellius duology, and Three Houses put a lot more effort into their worldbuilding and character writing that Engage did. Those games had their own flaws sure, and it's fine if you think that's not enough to call their writing "good", but in my opinion, it just feels wrong to drag them to the same level of a game with no worldbuilding and a cookie cutter premise. Even games like Blazing Blade and Awakening that don't have particularly strong narratives have at the very least emotional moments that are given the right amount of gravitas and dignity, something which, again, you can't really say for Engage.
The only past game Engage is comparable to is Fates, the game that was previously considered the nadir of the series' writing quality. Engage even shamelessly rips off some plot points from that game, like how Lumera's role in the story is the same as Mikoto's for example.
But even if you want to concede that FE games have bad stories... so what? Players should not expect better from a long-running series just because "it was always like this"?
I don't think so, especially when the series has shown that it can do better than this.
Another thing that it's worth keeping in mind is that Three Houses was mainly developed by Koei Tecmo, with developers from IS/Nintendo having supervision roles over the project. Now, for the longest time, I and other fans assumed that this meant that KT were mainly code-monkeys to give more manpower to the development of the game (since this was the first FE game for an HD console) and that IS had a bigger role on stuff like the Main Scenario. As it turns out, it was mostly writers from KT staff that worked on the game's story, so KT's contribution to 3H was bigger than some may have thought initially. Meanwhile, Engage was mainly developed in-house by IS, and in particular its main scenario writer, Nami Kumoro, also wrote the main scenario for Fates, so the similarities between the two games make a lot of sense.
So now fans cursed with this knowledge have given up hope that IS is even capable of writing good stories anymore and wish for them to hire new writers that can hopefully understand what a series like Fire Emblem needs in terms of writing.
And that's why it's so important to highlight what Three Houses did right, especially considering that Engage sales performance isn't great compared to it. There are obviously other factors at play, like how Engage was released later in the Switch's life, but the poor word of mouth that the game received post-launch certainly didn't help (defenders of the game repeating that the game's story sucks but it doesn't matter is pure anti-marketing for an RPG). Considering that Engage was conceived with the goal of expanding the series's audience, I wonder what the higher-ups at Nintendo feel about the fact that the game made by an external studio did a better job at that assignment.
They could obviously ignore this since it's not like Engage was a commercial flop, or alternatively, they could learn the "wrong lessons" from this (like forcing every game from now on to have multiple story paths). Nevertheless, it's honestly the only thing that makes me hopeful for the writing quality of future games to improve.
I want to stress that I'm not criticizing your video for not delving into all of this and that it was fair to talk about Engage without mentioning Three Houses once. I wanted to mainly provide more context into the discussions on the game and why some fans often use Three Houses/older games as a point of reference when talking about its writing quality, especially in response to bad faith arguments.
Sorry for the wall of text and keep up the good work!
I completely agree with you! 3H is one of my favorite games of all time, so it was near impossible not to compare the two while I was playing when my expectations were so high. I also think that a discussion about/comparison to 3H has a place here, but I decided to steer away from it in this video because of how the debate about Engage looks online. Mentioning 3H in a positive light, at least for the first few months of Engage’s release, always closed a lot of ears because I think many assumed that meant a newer fan or something along those lines and that’s I guess a red flag. Basically, I wanted to see if I could reach across the aisle to explain that, to many, it isn’t just 3H love that makes Engage look poorly made, it’s…Engage that makes Engage look poorly made. I’d love to make a video analyzing 3H someday though, because I didn’t get to talk about it at all…first positive video alert? 🤔 Thank you so much for watching!! :^)))
@@Iamnobody543 Engage and 3H are both FE games, so it's only natural to compare them.
Regardless of what goals IS had for Engage, there was no reason for them not to put more care into the game's worldbuilding and character writing. Since 3H excels at those aspects, it's going to be brought up as a positive example of what the series can achieve when its creative vision isn't clouded by a misguided desire to expand its audience.
@@Iamnobody543 from what I've seen in your replies in this thread as well as some other ones you seem to have completely missed the point that this video was making, which is unfortunate to say the least
@@Iamnobody543 Everything.
@@Iamnobody543 What's there to elaborate?
I think the villain having these grandiose schemes, just as an excuse to turn entire nations upside down looking for a missing friend trapped in a ring could be really powerful. Give the hero a similar loss and we can make a great story about what grief can do to a man, and how to be better despite it. that's not what we got.
This is such a good video essay about Engage, but also about writing and fiction in general. I appreciate that you were able to meta-analyze ?_? writing itself and still were able to get back on track. That and the fact that you're so clearly enjoying this. You even dove into the pitfall of "how to fix this" and came out alive. Would it be ok if I linked this on my community tab sometime?
Woah, this is crazy, I watch your videos all the time! Thank you so much for the kind words! :,^DDD I am very much enjoying writing about these games. Yes, please feel free to share the video if you want to, that would be amazing!
Holy shit, dude. Great seeing you here.
@@CamelinCD Brought here from Mekkah's post, nice analysis, thanks for spending the time to write it. I'm hopeful there is still someone with writing talent and ideas at IS, I was unfortunately spoiled by playing Path of Radiance first and while I enjoy the gameplay in most Fire Emblem games, I've been disappointed that the majority have failed to live up to the story telling in the first one I played. How hard is it to have the characters talk about the events they're participating in instead of their single character trait? =.=
The last section asking "why is Engage's gameplay good?" really resonated with me. I played Three Houses 8 times specifically because the combination of character and gameplay struck the right balance, despite becoming weary of the monthly structure. With Engage I made saves after acquiring each country's block of characters with the intent of running through the game with different groups. I got through my first game with Firene easily enough because everything was new. I got through the second with Brodia because I bumped the difficulty up and that posed a new challenge. Then I got a couple of chapters in with Elusia and dropped it, the cast has nothing I found interesting and the units didn't feel like they had any individuality because the emblem's abilities are so much more important than the unit itself.
hi mekkah
@@dmas7749 hi
I don't understand why the devs decided to have supports available immediately instead of locking them behind story progression like in Echoes and in three houses/hopes. It would've helped a lot with showing character growth instead of the weird disconnect we get with going from watching an a-support to a c-support. Granted, I don't think they all need that, but certainly for the main royals and potentially Alear. It would also allow them to reference events in the main story as well, since you're guaranteed to watch it at a time when it'll make sense.
The big thing that bothers me about the story is that it very consistently has cool *ideas* but always bungles the execution. Taking away the player's ability to use the first six emblems is a genuinely bold move, but we got there because evil-Veyle pulled a "made you look" and stole them offscreen. Alear's overconfidence could have been an interesting and understandable flaw that caused the chapter 10 disaster, but it's brought up literally once by Marth and then dropped because Alear never has issues with overconfidence again.
Veyle's tactical zombification of Alear could have been a brilliant turning point in her character (it was even foreshadowed decently well), but not only did we get there because of Alear pulling an utterly senseless and arguably out-of-character sacrifice, but it's also totally meaningless in terms of Veyle's character. The mind control Veyle suffers can easily be interpreted as the controlling effects of abuse, as the influence of abusers makes victims lash out in turn. This scene is where Veyle is totally rejecting the control of her abusive father - she destroys the crown that controls her and then uses her own necromantic powers for what she wants (to help others), instead of fearing or hating her powers' evil nature - thus accepting herself as well. But it's all totally undercut because Alear just tells her to do it in the afterlife! It's not her plan! She just changed out one person who has total control over her life for another but it's okay because this one is nice!
Speaking of mind control and abuse, evil Alear is such a squandered opportunity. Why not have Alear's past come up more often through flashbacks? Why not play through maps either as part of the main story or as paralogues where you're forced to play as red Alear, command Corrupted (or, hell, a suite of disposable brothers and sisters) and commit atrocities? Past Alear is utterly broken by trauma and browbeaten into committing horrible, horrible things, but we're only told that. Show the player! You don't even have to reveal right away that they're doing this because of Sombron, or even make it immediately clear that this is taking place in the past and you're unlocking Alear's memories. Having the player experience Alear's trauma is much more effective than just going back to the past and fighting them once, and also gives Alear an opportunity to actually confront this trauma and come to terms with their relationship with Lumera and how she changed their life.
People working on this project had great ideas for plot points, but basically just used motion tweens to go between point A and point B as expediently as possible, which results in rushed setup that makes the execution fall flat every time. Ultimately, ideas alone can't save the story.
gotta hard disagree with the take about the big-booba characters though, boobs are awesome and every single character who has big boobs is a better character for it. i am not accepting criticism at this time
Still watching the video, but seeing Alear lose his rings like Sonic was enough for me to subscribe right there.
AHAH Thank you It was the most handy joke I could make about that I think.
IS and Nintendo clearly just had the idea of "we want a game featuring a bunch of past protagonists," and wrote a sub-par story around that.
Make more content please, this was an outstanding analysis of Engage's storytelling elements backed up by thoughtful points, pertinent examples, and a great sense of humor.
When Alear's first reaction to being ambushed by weird zombie enemies while unarmed was to run away, I was amazed - finally a main character with more than a single brain cell!
It did not take long for me to reconsider this first impression. Pretty funny that this was supposed to be cowardice.
On another note, the variation in male character facial design is pretty jarring in comparison to all women sharing the same anime waifu derpface with only minor differences. (EDIT: awkward word choice; it's the waifu derpface that's jarring, not the other way around)
Same, I thought their explanation "we should run because these are not common enemies you see and we don't know what they're capable of" was reasonable and actually befitting a deity. There weren't any civilians around them either, just grass and hills, so retreating and discussing the situation was the best strategy all around.
"In a sense, the answer to the question "what is family" was staring him in the face as Lumera was dying the first time. It isn't blood, it's experience. It's the time spent in each other's company. It's why married people can call each other family. They aren't related by blood but bound by the time they've spent together and the bond they've nurtured."
Hot DAMN that's a bar. I'm just gonna go ahead and subscribe. You've got something special here growing on this channel
Did not expect the phrase “hot damn that’s a bar” in response to anything in this video LMAO Thank you so much!!! The highest honor
Love how people say "its a good game with a bad story don't take it seriously" then the game procedes to take itself WAY to serious I dare to say its the Fire Emblem that takes itself the most serious along with Awakening and Fates, even more than those 2.
And I know someone will mention Genealogy, Radiant Dawn or Three Houses taking itself more serious, and yes those game are more serious and the game respects that but its built gradualy along the story and the stakes that is why it feels organic, Engage story is screaming at you to take it seriously with little to no buildup and with A LOT of dialogue, I didn't knew the switch could enter into energy save mode when a cinematic was playing until I played Engage.
@@MeleysRQ then those other games take themselves seriously, but are well executed. the fact a game takes itself seriously only becomes noticeable when it fails at it
@@ivanlagayacrus1891 not even Engange has a bad story but I dare to say its execution is even worst.
56:12 Why did Engage start this way? Because Awakening started this way. Never mind that the opening scene is 100% revisited later in the story in that game.
While playing (I havent finished this game lmao) I predicted almost every plot point. I'm normally not super good at that. I was just like "ooohhh. It's Fates but worse."
The funny thing fates story is much worse However I enjoyed the game a lot more because I love the characters a lot more and I thought the world between hoshido and nohr to be interesting since you see both perspectives
Thank you for putting to words how i had been feeling about Engage since the trailer dropped especially the segment about character design being part of the story.
Yes you can invent or cobble together dispirate elements of costume and fashion to create an eyecatching look but if those elements feel like they dont have any meaning to the character or world they take place in, or worse, are entirely at odds with them then it essentially becomes the visual equivalent of unintentional narrative contradiction.
Its frustrating being a fan of this series and seeing people, desperate to protect this entry from criticism, turn around and write off and insult all previous entries while simultaneously claiming anyone who isn't satisfied with mediocrity from IS is a fake fan who only recently got into the series. I'd never claim previous entries had the narrative quality on the level of something like Disco Elysium but the previous entries I played and loved at least had a consistency and vision with actual themes that did more than act as set dressing.
My first experience with this series was the Tellius games and I can still name and tell you who the majority of the characters are and what their general deal is by memory despite not having replayed it recently because of the consistency of the writing and thats also with the majority of the cast having much much fewer support conversations and dialogue present in the plot when conlmpared to the Engage characters.
Oh my god. THANK YOU FOR THIS COMMENT. You have no idea how infuriating it is to deal with people who constantly try to use excuses like "Aniversity" or "Return to Form" to protect the game from any level of scrutiny. Each time I've tried to understand why it was okay to shit on previous game but not on Engage, people said i was a new fan despite being in the series for a decade. It is a shame that fire emblem is capable of mature dialog, story and characters but Engage squanders everything to feel cheesy and make it feel like a shitty parody
I'd love to see your take on other FE games. The community definitely needs someone capable of analyzing media!
wow your alternative way the story could’ve been written really moved me. so sad we didn’t get it that whole family theme would’ve definitely had me bawling my eyes out.. the way it was i just went „meh…okay i guess“ and went on to forget everything
Aa thank you!! :,^D I’m glad that part could make others feel moved!
It's games like Engage that makes me so confused about how people experience and form opinions on media. For me it is as clear as day for how poorly Fire Emblem Engage is written, but whenever I look online about Engages story I'm met with posts about how emotionally distraught people got over Marni's death, or how people were in tears when Alear had to say farewell to the emblem rings. When I saw scenes like these I was only felt with feelings of apathy or sardonic enjoyment, and I literally cannot understand how anyone else could come away from these scenes with any other feelings.
I know art is subjective at the end of the day, but I can't help but feel that "subjectivity" is almost always used as a crutch to wave away criticisms one might have of a game or of any piece of media. That's why I really appreciate videos like these, which effectively break down the issues that plague Engage's story, and gets as close to an objective analysis as possible.
I think the reason why whenever a piece of media gets critiqued and is met with vitriol is because when people see something they love being criticised they cannot help but feel it is a personal attack, and that their own personal experiences with said media are somehow invalid due to these flaws. "If this scene isn't effective at conveying sadness, then why did I feel sad?" I am no different, anytime someone makes a quick dunk on Echoes I can feel my inner gamer rage bubbling up, because the story and emotions I experienced were to me so close to perfection. I think we all need to realise that it's ok to enjoy something that has serious flaws, just because the story cannot effectively convey certain ideas or emotions does not invalidate your own feelings and experiences with it. Comments like "You're not meant to take the story seriously" gives the same energy as, "It's just a kids movie" a phrase that is just meant to hand wave away criticisms so to avoid the fact that the thing you like is not perfect.
Anyway just wanted to put my thoughts here, I really loved your video, especially the part where you did the mini rewrite, it's always to fun to think about what could have been.
I understand what you mean. It’s a difficult subject…I think when the overwhelming majority of a pretty large and diverse sample size of players had a bad experience with it (the story, at least), it becomes important to consider what could have made it more digestible for the most people possible. In doing that, it can also elevate the experience for the people who already happened to enjoy it. When I’m in the minority of people who enjoy something, that’s how I try to see it, at least. I can’t keep myself from liking something if I enjoyed my time with it, but I equally enjoy thinking about how it could’ve been better for the majority of its consumers, and dissecting what put people off it in the first place. FFXV is a good example of that; for some reason that game and its cast just resonated so hard with me, but I obviously can’t bring myself to revile criticism toward it; I usually agree with that criticism. When I find myself in that situation I usually direct my disappointment toward the story itself-“how could you waste all this potential!” “Everyone would’ve been happier with this change/addition!” Stuff like that. In that way, I also understand how fans of Engage feel. I hope someday everyone can better communicate their thoughts so we can work toward something most people can be happy with. Right now IS is demonstrating a deep mastery of “divide and conquer” lmao.
"or how people were in tears when Alear had to say farewell to the emblem rings."
Man, I felt so stupid getting emotional with that scene...but I did.
In a general sense, it's just nostalgia doing its thing. I guess it has to do with you (the player) having a chance to see the characters from (mostly) beloved entries in the franchise again, only to say one final goodbye.
But someone smarter and more eloquent than myself can probably explain how nefarious and artistically bankrupt it is to rely on these scenes to get an emotional reaction out of the audience. It's also probably why there are so many crossover / multiverse shenanigans currently flooding the market. Essentially, they're "double dipping" on the artistic/financial returns that a good story provides. Why spend the effort writing a good, new story when we can just shove the image of the classic characters in their faces and have them throw money at us for it?
I wish that they wouldn't take this cheap option but it just aligns with Nintendo's design philosophy as of late. Spend as little effort as possible and let the brand carry itself.
Maybe people just want to play good strategic gameplay that Three Houses didn't have and not go through mandatory social sim scenes. I play tactical strategy games for the tactical strategy. Gameplay will always trump story regardless of story quality since I play games to play them.
people have other opinions
@@CamelinCD Insanely mature and thoughtful response. Are you sure you're a Fire Emblem fan? This isn't really the norm for fans of this franchise
Though I gotta wonder how you can stomach FF fans clowning hard on FF15. There are only so many "this piece of media you love and resonate with is garbage" takes I can stomach in a short period of time before I get infuriated. No amount of "how could you waste all of this potential" could face up to a deluge of negativity and cynicism I feel
The first thing i said to myself when people started making excuses that it was an anniversary title: what the hell is an anniversary title? Just make a good, entertaining and audience fulfilling game. IS shouldn't feel the need to make original anniversary games, especially since FE isn't as popular as other nintendo franchises. Just make remasters or remakes. Or just make...good games
I'm pretty sure Awakening was an Anniversary title and it does so MUCH better.
It takes place on the continent from Marth and Alm's stories, Marth is treated as a historical hero to the point that he's known to single handedly defeat the Dark Dragon (similar to how Anri was immortalized as the sole hero to establish Archanea). Alm doesn't get much mention aside from Valentia being renamed after him eventually and i BELIEVE Walhart is his descendent. Though he clearly resembles Rudolf more.
It introduces the Mila tree, named after the goddess, and the voice of Naga herself migrated to Valm and took residence in it, which i always found very interesting, Naga's avatar sleeping in Mila's protection.
It also has a direct callback to Ike in the form of Priam, and references Laguz through a missable line with Panne. Finally, the devs released like a hundred completely free Spotpass avatars based on various characters from the franchise. AND TO TOP IT OFF, in all of the DLC where the Einherjar are included, said characters get meaningful multiple lines of characterization and dialogue with Awakening's cast without spoiling shit.
Awakening is what an Anniversary title should be, it ACTUALLY shows reverence and respect to the series, while intriguing you to the characters and making you want to play their games and learn more about them.
@xacmashe3852 It got lost in translation to English iirc, but also one of the supports referenced Naesala and Leanne I believe
I cannot lie, thanks to my love for Awakening, Three Houses, and even Fates (Yes… even Fates), I preordered Engage’s $90 version because I was genuinely hyped for a new Fire Emblem game. Awakening was my introduction to the series and showed me a world of exquisitely beautiful settings, intriguing stories, and memorable characters~ Fates, though poorly received and definitely feeling more… shallow… than Awakening held my attention with the story of family fighting family and the colorful cast~ Three Houses is the game on the Switch I’ve sunk the most time into and honestly has some of the best character writing I’ve seen in any video game. The supports, while I know they weren’t to everyone’s liking, were well-written and gave me a reason to really explore the different paths and slice-of-life mechanics more than other games. Soon as Engage was announced, immediately I felt excited to fall in love with Fire Emblem all over again… and the first hour or so had my attention… I saw the makings of a remarkable adventure held back by shallow characters, a bland story, and an overall unrewarding experience…
Graphically, Engage was gorgeous and I must submit that I absolutely loved Ivy, Goldmary, and Chloe’s designs… and the Engage feature felt like a genuine callback to the older games… but both the Emblems and the supporting characters just felt abysmally dull. There was no real depth in any character… not even the main character… I honestly felt Alear was literally if Robin was in Corrin’s shoes… Amnesiac with pretty shallow character is the love of all, loses their mother, who we honestly aren’t with enough to make us care for, and our status as a dragon… way to lack originality…
1:10:00 When you started mentioning the whole Heroes situation, which was a title I never heard of until recently, it honestly began to make way too much sense as to why the characters felt the way they did… they were beautiful shells with no soul… no substance… the closest analogy I can make is going to a restaurant and ordering… receiving a full course meal yet, every single item you receive tastes just bland… Greed took the mechanic I loved most from this series and I sincerely hope that in time, it’ll return…
Agreed! I was also pretty optimistic about Engage, which might seem surprising. Like you I was expecting a story that was simple and maybe a bit cheesy, but which still made sense. Not…what it actually turned out to be.
It’s surprising to hear a relatively seasoned fan didn’t hear about heroes until recently! I envy you haha. Thank you for watching!! :^)
@@CamelinCD Definitely was blessed. I hate the gacha mechanics in games but, as you said, the series has a devoted fanbase and memorable characters that work in such a game. I played Heroes and was not very pleased. It’s sad to see a series with rich characters and lore demoted to simple lifeless models to collect.
I will at least say for Engage, I enjoyed a few characters… though they lacked any depth beneath a single trait.
Thank you for mentioning the thing about the opening cutscene. I've heard no one else mention it. It really bothered me that it was never a called back to. As flawed as it is, I love FE Awakening, and I know the opening scene in Engage is a reference to the opening of Awakening, which begins it's game with a tutorial that is a flash forward to a later fight that does actually happen and creates great dramatic tension when it does (though it has it's own contrivances). It's even in a big long hallway with a scrawny scary man at the end.
I don't expect a perfect story from Fire Emblem, but at least Awakening was about hope against all odds, comradery, and family. The fact the writer said he didn't think people in this generation would identify with brave characters was also very saddening. I'm not surprised a person who thinks that wrote a story as nihilistically empty as this one. And whatever point that he could have made in a story with that stance as it's core was removed by corporate intervention.
I say that, though I still cried when Lumeria died. The scene dragged on so long it wore me down emotionally haha.
I totally agree about Awakening! There’s a very prevalent idea in its characters and plot-especially Lucina and Robin-that the game makes sure you feel hard. It was written by people who needed to believe in that at the time after all-I think the story was literally about Fire Emblem, and fighting the seemingly inescapable fate that the series was going to die. Now that they have security, it’s definitely sad to see just how little faith they have in the people who brought the series back to life. I feel like the bravery not resonating with modern audiences sentiment is super telling and overlooked. It makes me feel offended and sad :,(
Thank you for watching!! :,^D
@@CamelinCD Thanks for taking time out to respond, I loved the video!
I'm glad that I passed on Engage. It doesn't sound like I missed much haha. Also this was awesome! Surprised that this was only your third video, you have real talent!
Thank you so much!! :^DD Yeah, I think a pretty good tell for people that you aren’t going to like engage is if you look at it and think…”I’m not going to like this”. Because the image that probably popped into your head is also probably accurate haha. Thank you again! :,,^)
I groaned so hard when Marni revealed her tragic backstory and was was then given a pointless death to redeem herself, I think that was the moment I truly stopped caring about the plot. I would've liked if she had joined the player despite all of her war crimes which would've made for some great support conversations in any game not called fire emblem engage, but unfortunately the supports are of such low quality in this game that even if she had been playable she'd probably just be talking about weightlifting and food with the other characters.
I really loved the xenologue though, I'm not sure if it's just by comparison to the main story being that bad, but I actually felt a sense of urgency in the story together with a strong curiosity by the mystery added to it of who the villain would be. With many moments in the main story seeming pointless, it almost seems like an unintentional meta commentary that the xenologue actually ends up being pointless; the two last people on earth fighting on who gets to rule it. I ended up loving Nel and Rafal and the character arcs they ended up getting in the story, they might not have been perfect but it's more than any main story character besides Hortensia got.
Agreed! I actually found Marni just a little funny before she did her 180. Same with Griss. I don’t quite get why Engage insisted on explaining and redeeming its villains last minute if it wasn’t taking itself seriously. Making the villains be funny with memorable dialogue would be good enough if the story could just decide on a general tone or direction. Thank you for watching! :^D
@@CamelinCDI felt that way for zephia. When she dies she wanted a family yet she killed mami with no hesitation. I hate how they do this huge info dump once they are dying to try to sympathize with them meanwhile I didn’t care and I was worried that my switch was going to sleep again
I think you’ve really captured the essence of Engage’s writing and presentation flaws here. I’ve also struggled to properly verbalise every issue I have with Engage, and I think you’re right - the game’s so confused and inconsistent with its direction and execution, and its issues so numerous and attention-grabbing that it’s hard to discuss without also coming off scattered.
I agree with your key point as well. Engage really did feel very “corporate” to me. The Pokemon comparison is apt, and videos like this calling it out early are a good thing. I’m hoping this was a blip, since it is ostensibly an anniversary game, but I hope the next game’s more concrete in its concept and execution.
Side note: You did an excellent job of making a 2 hour video feel like 20 minutes. Well done!
Thank you so much! Yes, That’s really important to me in this video-not letting the corporatization of the art/games I love go unacknowledged so that, hopefully, it won’t always be that way-or at least so that a healthy balance can be achieved. Thank you sm for watching and leaving your thoughts ! :^)
It's extremely weird that Engage decided to start with a cutscene like that. That's a new trend for the series that started with Awakening that, to my knowledge, has been in every game since, with the key difference that those cutscenes HAPPEN. (Except for fates, but the events that DO happen are still very close to reality) Chrom and robin are isolated against validar, ending with Chrom being badly wounded. Nohr invades hoshido, and corrin is forced to choose a side and fight. Alm and Celica have to fight, ending in Celica's death. Three houses is a notable exception in not having a sequence like this, but that's LEAGUES better than doing the sequence and then revealing it to be fan fiction written by the devs.
.
I guess it's bc IntSys wants to catch the player's attention immediately by throwing in one of the more anticipated scenes but it's really just getting stale atp tbh
Don't forget the random scene where Alear has that devilish smile which goes absolutely nowhere
The cutscene/tutorial in the intro does actually happen though lmao it's literally just actually happening in the past, not the future. It's actually the only good piece of writing in this entire game, the subversion of the trope
@@drewbabe Uh, what?
Fates prologue never really happen as in the prologue, HOWEVER in the game you see people of both Nohr and Hoshido fighting and that sorta happens too in the prologue
Weeks ago, I watched this video, and I have returned to say one thing:
Thank you for introducing me to Octopath Traveler 2. 10/10 game, would recommend to anyone curious about it
This video is fucking immaculate. Sorry if that's crass or basic, but I'm honestly just overwhelmed by how intentional and articulate this whole thing is. Something this length would otherwise be exhausting and hard to justify, but every minute is so packed it's worth watching and REwatching. There truly is not much on the internet that lives up to this standard. Amazing.
WHSHDGHS Thank you so much!!! :,,^D Not crass or basic, that’s the greatest compliment I could ever ask for haha. Thank you for watching. And REwatching! :,)
The intro/prologue of Engage is similar to Awakening's: a battle against a dark antagonist with high stakes but instead of setup, foreshadowing, and payoff in the end which Awakening does, Engage feels meandering, unnecessary, and not really connecting to the overall narrative.
Hell the part you explain where Alear has trouble expressing feelings about Lumera is also reminiscent of Byleth's arc of learning to express themselves in Three Houses/Hopes. The "twist" that Alear is blood related to a primary antagonist: done better in both Awakening and Echoes/Gaiden. Almost every plot point and thread in Engage is a bad copy/paste of older/better Fire Emblem games but done weaker and not as compelling. Even the first Fire Emblem game where the plot was basically just confront and defeat the dark dragon, but in Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light it could be excused as first game syndrome where you didn't need to invest in character development at all but you still invested in them because of their utility.
In making an "anniversary" game, Engage fails to lives up to it's predecessors by just trying to remind you of games you've played or haven't and just wants to make you play those games instead because they didn't try to throw everything at the wall in hopes of making it more palatable. Sure, the gameplay is mostly passable, but even that can be a slog because of the revival stone system Engage implements which means 90% of all bosses have at least double health and more annoying to take down in the end. And don't get me started on the DLC story where it's the reverse problem of story passable, gameplay bad...
After starting Awakening, I've been completely baffled by how much Engage feels like a copy pasted version of that game's plot points more than any other, without understanding why they generally worked for that game. If I had played it earlier, I think it would have been another more apt example of a true, simple story. I wonder if they thought, because it saved the series at one point, they could just put on the same facade and hope everyone liked it again. Odd 🤔. Anyway, thank you for watching and leaving your thoughts!! :^DD
@@CamelinCD I totally agree. It does seem like the writers just copied the bullet points of Awakening's story without looking into why those story elements worked in that game. For as much as this game rips off from Awakening, there was one part that was almost directly copied from Fates, which also took a lot from Awakening. Lumera's death plays out the exact same as Mikoto, Corrin's mom. Like Alear, Corrin first meets Mikoto the same day she dies and doesn't remember her even when she has kicked the bucket. Corrin also reacts to Mikoto's death worse than the children Mikoto raised from birth. It was not very good there either for many of the same reasons, but even Fates knew not to draw it out. When Mikoto died, she had one last line and passed on. She didn't give a six minute long speech to Corrin. It's even funnier because Mikoto's death was a rip-off of Emmeryn's death in Awakening. Engage ripped off the rip-off.
@@CamelinCD honestly if you aren't fire emblemed out I would love to hear your thoughts on the parallels between Awakening and Engage, specifically about what Engage simply did wrong that Awakening did right and which plot elements were handled poorly by both titles or flat out don't work but were attempted by both
@@joeljames2683i don't know if I'd call Mikoto's death a ripoff of Emmeryn's. Because Emmeryn's death was meant to be the climax, the turning point of the war with Plegia. She was supposed to be the one who willingly died for her ideal, despite being forced onto that ledge, she went out on her own terms after telling the people fighting that there WAS a better way, after hours of her trying everything to seek peace in the first place. I kinda say "supposed" because she was not nearly in the game long enough, but she managed to get her message through to the player enough for her death to feel earned. She has characterization, is memorable and her death causes ripples throughout the story even in Valm if i recall.
Mikoto however had like 3 scenes where she goes "i missed you Corrin i want us to be a family again" in every scene and then she gets killed off protecting Corrin. Corrin, who has spent all 3 cutscenes going "man i don't know you even a little and won't call a complete stranger "mother" but you sure seem nice, lady" upon seeing her death goes apeshit for this rando. And then any further mentions of Mikoto is done to characterize her post mortem when its pointless. Then she shows up again in Revelations and is a boring lame zombie.
I wouldn't exactly say they're super similar let alone the same.
@@xacmashe3852 You are so right. Awakening did Emmeryn's character and death scene so well. We actually got to know her and understand the burden she carried. The game was top tier all around.
I don’t understand why there are so many apologists for this game online. People will be like “the story doesn’t have to be important only the gameplay matters!” Even if the gameplay is superb (I actually think engages gameplay is good but not great due to an over-reliance on a player phase puzzle like aspect rather than executing specific strategies) we should still advocate for a better story in our games. Why would we not want Fire Emblem to be the best it can be we can have both a great story and good gameplay these things are not mutually exclusive. I will always be vocal about my criticisms of engage because I genuinely care for this series and I want it to grow and improve. If a ROLE PLAYING strategy game won’t take its story seriously than why should I waste my time role playing in a world I don’t care for?
Hey thank you so much for watching/leaving your thoughts! I totally agree, what you said about the gameplay really resonates with my too. I think story-based games, especially those of a “roleplaying” genre, are at their best when the gameplay can draw inspiration and concepts from a solid story and world, and when the gameplay can strengthen the narrative in return. Thank you again :^)
@@techpriest6962 What do you mean by "removed tactical freedom in favor of forcing one main playstyle"?
What is main playstyle?
@@techpriest6962
“…which forces players to value the attack based unit types in the player phase (attack phase) over the enemy phase (defense phase). Since positioning was so much more vital than past games”
How is positioning less vital in engage than in the previous games? Just because it is more player phase focused? Because if so, this is questionable; as player-phased focused games like Conquest and Engage highly value organized unit attacks to minimize the amount of danger you are in while also maximizing the amount of damage and enemies defeated. Such as positioning everyone in the correct way to do a multi-dance set up. Using obstruct staffs to block out adjacent spaces of your archer unit to force the 1-2 range flying enemies to attack in two range and get countered. Good positioninign is just as vital in this game as in the others.
“This wasn't an issue in the GBA days since the maps were smaller”
Defense was the norm in fe 7 and 8 as the enemy quality was so weak, you can chuck a unit in the middle of a group with a hand-axe, and be good to go. While there is theoretically a good way to make an enemy-phased game-- Fe 7 and especially 8 where not good examples. I cannot comment on Radiant Dawn as I lack the resources to play it.
“... increased the size of its maps making mobility more valuable since infantry (certainly not heavies) could not keep up with the rest of the army”
Did they tho? I mean sure SoV had giant ass maps due to it being a remake of the 2nd game. And 3H’s had big maps which certainly gave flying units a big boon. But map sizes in CQ and Engage are comparatively on the smaller end. With engage especifically, the main maps are not only slightly smaller, but where designed with the lowered movement stats. With promoted foot locked units having 5 move. Flying/cavalry having six. And armored units have 4. Admittedly armored units do fall slightly behind, which has always been an issue of them. But promoted foot-locked units can keep up just fine.
With their class type offering a genuine draw for people to prefer foot-locked units over the mounted brethren.
“I say this as someone who has primarily used low mobility units like mages, generals, etc. With an army that shined in the enemy phase just as bright as it did in the player phase”.
Beside generals, I fail to see how you cannot get mileage out of foot-locked units.
Mystical units (locked to sage, Vidame, and High priest) taking advantage of more offense bonuses from rings such as Celica (Echo and Warp Ragnarok), having access to Corrin’s flame terrain, and the niche of ignoring terrain avoid bonuses. Not to mention magic being very good in this game. And often time the mystical ring bonuses are far better than the cavalry bonuses via mage knight.
Back up classes can perform back-up attacks, which can push crucial damage thresholds, weaken enemies, and with one hero+Duall Asssist, contribute to combat.
Qi-Adepts can block either one attack on player phase, or consistently block many attacks thanks to the lucina ring.
Then there are covert units, which provide great +5 speed via the byleth’s instruct/Goddess Dance. Or could use lyn’s astra storm to bait the boss a million miles away (which is what I did for Leif’s paralogue). Not to mention the degenracy of Sniper Citrine + Lyn’s astra storm.
When it comes to ring bonuses, cavalry and especially flying units contend with far weaker ring bonuses to make up for the extra point in movement.
Enemy phase strats are still VERY strong in this game. Stuff like bonded shield, freeze staffs or obstruct staffs to stall enemies with enemy advantage like the archer vs. 2 range fliers example). I speak from experience, having a vantage user (not even wrath was needed) for enemy phase via Berserker Amber (I know warrior is better, but he got shit speed rng, so I went unga Bunga for the max strength + he looked fly as hell as berserker) with a byleth engraved Silver great axe has got me through so much stuff, even with basic vantage and not vantage +/++. With weapons like the poleaxe with ike engraved making quick work of the cavalry onslaught on chapter 19.
The break mechanic was a great addition.
My brodia run consisted of foot-locked units for a LARGE amount of time. And I was able to perform well in many. I only switched Diamant from Successor to Griffin knight for Lief’s chapter, in order to kill the general and the sage which had the money. And Lapis going from warrior into worl knight now that her strength was fixed, as well as taking advantage of the sigurd ring’s extra mobility.
"Def was a near useless stat since the goal was to just keep swarming your enemy with high Dmg once the disarm was triggered".
Defense is absolutely not a useless stat in engage. Sure, it may not factor when you break an opponent, but it plays a part when fighting units that cannot break you, like axe vs. axe.
"As the dev said it himself, he was an action game player who didn't like tactics games. "So he wanted to make a game people like him could enjoy" which meant game design favoring offense over defense to make combat faster like an action game '.
How is engage an action game? Yes it is more fast paced, but it does not invalidate enemy phase strats. You bring up the director's lack of experience in strategy rpg's as a negative. But it does not show in the end product. Engage has great strategy bones. Nearly all of the maps and paralogues are incredibly well designed. The game SHOULD fall apart at the seams with tools such as rings in your disposal, but it somehow does not. The maps complement the engage rings in so many ways without turning the game too heavily into Player Phase or Enemy Phase. Using Lyn's clones to draw out enemies and to push units further. Sigurd to flank and pick off far away enemies. Byleth to create multi-dance scenarios. Corrin alongside a mystical unit type to control crowds. Micaiah's unparalleled staff utility. The later maps use infinite reinforcements to pick up the pase, rather than slowing down, which is such a rarity in fire emblem (as the reinforcements start right behind you, or in a relatively far away area). As far as I am aware, Tei [Engage’s director] did a great strategy game. I would be perfectly fine if he helmed the gameplay, mechanic, and map design sections of the next game.
@@techpriest6962
I cannot understand how Tei making a great strategy rpg means he does not respect srpgs
Perfectly said. I don’t know why people like to say this. People primarily pay FE games for(aside from the gameplay itself) the characters and the story. If neither are good why are you playing the game? If you have no interest in the characters and their world, then it wouldn’t matter if they lived or died in you runs. It wouldn’t matter if they won or lost. It’s just a game of chess with 2d avatars on top and that’s all.
Makes certified banger then disappears
LMAO I swear I'm still here I'm just slow 😭😭😭 Thank you for the title of certified banger tho 😏
@@CamelinCD Your video is amazing! I'll look forward to more bangers.
@@Corran109 Tsutomu Tei the director of this game only worked on map design in previous FE games, but not the story.
Fire Emblem's gameplay is helped massively by your connections to it's characters. Enjoy those characters, and you want to protect them. The fun of keeping everyone alive that you care about is part of it's massive appeal. Engage's map design, unit design, emblem system, and new mechanics like the break system are all super solid gameplay wise... but I don't get the same amount of enjoyment from it because I can't connect with the characters I'm controlling. When I actively hate most characters in the game, I don't care about keeping them alive.
If you already hate most of them, join the Excelblem mentality of using that contempt for memes and evil; they might be nameless cannon fodder but they're YOUR cannon fodder, and you get to decide in what way they can die for minimal gain
@@kylepangilinan9075 Tempting way to think about things
@@kylepangilinan9075 True, but I could also just play chess, checkers, or even Connect 4.
That was a very good in-depth look, thank you. I'm not a big watcher of multi-hour essays, but you used the time well!
What I felt was the biggest story failing of Engage is "all payoff no setup" plague. That happens over and over and over. Which you touched upon in the segment where you said that the game is trying to string together its maps basically, with little concern that beginning, middle and end of the story are actually disconnected. And even then… the title says it well - it's a consequence, not the cause. The root cause is a franchise with no strong creative director at helm that still persists in trying to make money, mainly through surface-level fanservice in its different variations (like polishing the rings, lmao).
Thank you so much!! I agree-that was something I wish I touched on more actually; when I was writing that recap at the beginning it made me realize just how much the story is go-to-place-and-fight simulator…
Thank you for watching, I’m glad you enjoyed! :^DD
@@CamelinCD tbh thats true for like 80%of Fire Emblem. Even the ones whose stories people acually like
I've never actually left a CZcams comment before, but the superb quality of this video, one that comes from a small channel no less, really made me want to share my thoughts.
First of all, the video itself. The music, art, sound effects, and humor all work so well together with your serious and thorough analysis. You strike a very nice balance and the video is lovely to watch.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis, too. I should point out that I've not played Engage myself but I've written multiple analyses of Fire Emblem games myself and watched a playthrough + the support conversations of Engage. Why? Well, because I realized early on that this game would not be one for me; for Fire Emblem games, I need story and characters to care about and to contextualize why the pretty anime characters are fighting.
Engage showed early on that it could not care less about giving you a reason to care about the world or the people in it. It might sound a bit ridiculous but I almost felt insulted by the very concept of the Emblems; the idea that rings containing the immortal spirits of older characters would be a central plot point and items of great power just felt wrong. Not just because it sounds silly, (yeah, Roy, that little manlet with awful stats is surely capable of turning the tide of a war in another world), but because I knew Intelligent Systems would never be capable of actually using them well in the story, and that their mere inclusion would in one way or another negatively impact the new characters.
Removing beloved characters from the context they came from and just plopping them into another world is also just such a bad idea. My go-to examples of this are Felix and Soren, characters whose personalities and goals are so uniquely shaped by the world they live in that including them somewhere else would make them much less as a result. That's not what I want from a Fire Emblem game; I want the new characters to be the best they can be, not shackled to less interesting versions of older characters. The Emblems are there for pandering, plain and simple.
And that long intro kind of takes me to my one real point of feedback: the comment about not mentioning Three Houses. While I completely understand why you would want to analyze Engage on its own and judge it on its own merits, I think the reason why Engage's abysmal writing quality bothers so many people is because it's not an isolated incident. Three Houses, mostly handled by another company, managed to do so many things right despite its flaws, and it seemed as though the developers knew how to write a good Fire Emblem cast, world and story better than Intelligent Systems, who not long before that had released Fates. I saw in the comments that you haven't played Fates, but without spoiling anything, it shares a LOT of DNA with Engage, so it's just frustrating to see that Intelligent Systems seems either unwilling or unable to learn from their mistakes. I think that's why people bring up Three Houses so often in comparison to Engage, not just because it's the second most recent entry.
This comment became a lot wordier than I had hoped; I wanted to discuss a few more elements of Engage but then again, you already bring up most of what I wanted to say in the video, except better. I guess I'll just finish with this: I very much look forward to seeing what you think of Fates, should you give the game(s) a go, even though it has been discussed thoroughly at this point.
As for well-written games with wonderful thematic consistency, I'd recommend Disco Elysium and Knights of the Old Republic II (though the latter is infamously unfinished, what's there is fantastic even for people who are not fans of Star Wars).
Cheers!
Thank you so much..! I’m glad that you enjoyed watching :,^DDD I completely agree with the whole “needing context to the battles” thing, and as I said at the end of the video I find it a little dismissive to just say “it’s a good strategy game, just ignore the story” when both of those equally important things are promised to you when you purchase the game, and are so intrinsically tied to and elevate each other. I wouldn’t have bought Engage either if I didn’t intend to make this video. You may have seen this as well if you were looking through the comments earlier, but yes, the reason I didn’t speak on Three Houses was because I wanted as many people as possible to hear out the message I was trying to get across without being offended/turned off by comparisons…but it was really difficult to resist. I completely agree with everything you said regarding 3H-I had to go over to the whole Octopath Traveller 2 for a comparison to be as removed as I could LMAO. I’m becoming more and more enticed by the idea of just writing a 3H analysis and letting that speak for itself in contrast to this video.
Thank you so much for watching and leaving your thoughts!! (And for those recommendations! I’ll have to check them out 👀👀)
I gotta love the fact that people are griefing you over not playing the game in the main FE subreddit while ignoring the fact that people shouldn't be obligated to pay $60 just to review an already released game (with full playthroughs posted out there) that they know that they dislike or have no interest in playing.
Really good video. It's really refreshing to see someone so articulate contribute something very meaningful to the discourse of the game, as opposed to some people genuinely celebrating poor writing.
My interest in Engage pretty much died in Lumera's death scene. I get that I'm beating a dead horse, and also realise you made a joke about all of the people comparing it to 3 Houses at the end of the video, but I'm going to do it anyway lol. Comparing the parental death scenes between the two games represents Engage's shortcomings pretty well imo.
Half of Lumera's screen time is her dying. Neither the player, nor Alear grow any sort of attachment to her, most people I've talked to about Engage said they were browsing TikTok or Twitter during the scene. I suppose it sets off the story, but it really wouldn't make much difference to the plot of Engage if Lumera was wounded in the castle (and unable to travel) or if she never existed and Alear's task was given to them by Vander.
Where as Jeralt's death comes about 20 hours into 3H. To say the player will be greatly attached to him is perhaps an overstatement, but we've spent enough time with him and Byleth to appreciate their relationship and losing him does really change the tone of the game. Byleth's couple of tears do so much more than Alear's minutes of sobbing because we have seen their connection.
It is also in the middle of a period of great loss for Byleth, first the attack on Remire, then losing their father, then losing Sothis. These events are integral to the plot and their impact shifts the rest of the game, (slightly more/less depending on what route).
This is touched on in the video, but the reactions to and the implications are probably the biggest difference between the two. In Engage we get to see Alear being sad as they tell the story to every new person they meet. There's very little else that we actually glean from this event. Who even is Lumera? What has she done? What connection does she have with anyone?
Three Houses dedicates the month to Jeralt's death. The monastery feels completely different, sombre music plays the entire time, almost every character offers their condolences to Byleth, and people who knew Jeralt well (Alois, Leonie) give heartfelt reactions, which the game has built to. I think it also offers insight to the different house leaders, highlighting their contrasting ideals and outlook on the world, which is basically the whole point of 3H. We see Dimitri's empathy shine through, but his darker, revenge-thirsty side also boiling in the back, Claude sees it as an opportunity to learn secrets about Jeralt, Rhea and the Church, and Edelgard shows her more ruthless nature, telling Byleth they need to stand up now more than ever and fight for a better, more just world.
This isn't to say 3H is perfect, or that Jeralt's death was a masterpiece, just two scenes that show off their games well in my opinion.
Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd even say the gameplay was all that great. I find the Somniel, bond fragments and related features, and skill point grinding to be incredibly tedious. I think the Emblem rings and the abilities and weapons they provide are cool, but the fact that each one of them is their own individual grind on any character you'd want to use them for makes them, again, feel tedious.
I don't have any knowledge of games prior to Awakening, so I can only draw from games since then, but as far as spicing up the 'move unit, then attack' formula, I think combat arts from Echoes and 3 Houses do it better. I also appreciate the individualized spell lists.
As far as the story, I think for myself the biggest issue is just how annoying every character is. It feels like a 4 Kids dub. Maybe that's a little harsh, but it definitely has saturday morning cartoon vibes.
To me it feels like they only used notes from the writers to create the story of Engage. This is especially clear when we look at Veyle who states her friendship with Alear meant everything to her while in reality they talked like 5 minutes before she says that...
They never wanted to write a story here to begin with. Which is sad. Because they more or less wasted everything they created here. Sure, not every game needs a Story. But after Three Houses and looking back aat previous games such as Radiant Dawn, Holy War, even Sacred Stones, etc. ... You'd expect them to at least care more than putting in the bare minimum, strings for building a headcanon... This is lazy and sad to me. Even Fates did a better job with its prolouge. Heck, Fates took itself serious enough to the point we'd have memes like Ryoma being furios in the cutscene while somehow waiting patiently before fighting Corrin... In Engage it feels... forced, sad. Cringe.
And that's Just... Idk. I love this gameplay but I would love the game even more if it would give me a reason to care for its world.
The divine dragon, at this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country localized entirely within my desert?
LMAO
Yes.
I watch Engage's supports at night, and it works so well that it puts me to sleep faster out of boredom.
Tsutomu Tei the director of this game only worked on map design in previous FE games, but not the story.
Coming from three houses where I went out of my way to emotionally invest in the characters, let's just say engage was a bit of whiplash where I skipped literally every support and most cutscenes. I had no idea that death scene was 6 minutes and I've done 5 maddening runs....so yeah.
Also, if you see this comment Camelin, awesome work. You're clearly an excellent writer and analyst and I wish more people put half as much effort into making long form content like this. Whenever I find smaller channels like this that I know are going to get big someday, I screencap their sub count and file it away to show how big of a hipster I am. Look forward to posting yours someday. 😜
Ironically you put more thought and care into this video essay than the writers did for this trainwreck of a game.
This video seems tailor made for me. I love watching extremely detailed analysis about what makes a story work and I also adore the Fire Emblem franchise, which has a very special place in my heart. Excellent thought process and presentation of ideas throughout. I seriously cannot believe I sat through a 2 hour youtube video lol.
I'm not gonna lie, that middle section where you call the game's purpose an advertisement for Fire Emblem Heroes hurts precisely because it's true. FEH is Funko popping the characters we knew and loved from games with actual effort put into them; cashing in on our nostalgia to sell us a lifeless husk of them. What hurts the most is that I'm a day one player that has probably spent hundreds of dollars on it (though I do enjoy the gameplay from time to time), so I feel like the butt of a corporate joke.
I do think the game is genuinely fun. I am currently finishing my first Maddening play through and every completed chapter feels like I overcame a good challenge, which is what FE has always been about. In that sense, it delivers, which is not something I could personally say about the last decade of Pokemon games. That said, I do agree that theres way too much fluff (the needlessly complex menus, pointless exploration, gacha systems) in it for it to be perfect in a gameplay angle. And, like you said, FE hits way better when you actually give a shit about the story and characters...and for the past...I don't know...five entries (excluding Shadow of Valentia) the stories and characters have been really, really mediocre.
All of this highlights a sad reality for those who grew up with Nintendo franchises. The company does not give a shit about combining a good artistic expression with fun gameplay. It's all become a predictable sterile product meant to be shoved into store shelves (and online stores) every 1 or 2 years.
PD: Shoutout to that penultimate section where you literally fix the story for it to make way more sense. I'm gonna head cannon your revisions into my next playthroughs. Great video and you just earned yourself a subscriber.
I completely agree! Yeah, it’s unfortunate because I really do think the idea of Heroes with all the different artists creating different variants of the characters in their own styles is really cool. I certainly prefer it to the outright dismissal of all 2D art that we got in engage…it’s a shame that was all used on the gacha app. In another world I could see myself getting sucked into that as well. Thank you so much for watching and commenting, you make some great points!
45:45 So many Engage defenders claims this and is so annoying
Legit they literally point at Alear wanting to run away and claim the entire game is like that
Goated video! I think you really captured the idea of Fire Emblem going in a more "Pokemon-Esque" route of feeding what works as a sufficient baseline to peddle a rpoduct rather than creating something compelling within said simplicity. So much of it feels like it was left mediocre because they believe there's no reason to put in the extra hours into anime/gacha adjacent branding instead of storytelling. People have a lot of rightful complaints about Three Houses at times, but it is very clear that they actually put foremost effort into the world, story, and presentation, and it rightfully paid dividends. While I'm glad Engage did sufficiently well and scratched an itch for more gameplay-oriented fans. I do feel vindicated that the general consensus of this very committee-focused design seems to be lukewarm at best.
Completely agreed! Whether they realize it or not, I think people can tell when something was driven by passion, and that passion rubs off on them. That’s a big part of the reason why 3H, despite as you said having many flaws that deserve to be critiqued for the sake of it being the best it can be, is one of my favorite games of all time. The fact that the majority of 3H was written by huge fans of the series in Koei Tecmo is probably a big reason for that explosion of passion.
"they actually put foremost effort into the world, story, and presentation, and it rightfully paid dividends"
This is to me, what FE is. Every FE, with the exception of Engage, achieves this to varying degrees. Worldbuilding is the core of FE and Engage throws away the one thing FE does exceptionally.
Every game has a strongly though out world, a clear story and they generally know how to present it, but Engage failed at that. It literally has 0 worldbuilding, literally go to the FE wiki and compare Elyos to every other continent, or the countries within to other prominent country in the series, it merely gives a name to what is otherwise a blank stage for gimmicks and nostalgia.
Because of this lack of worldbuilding, there's a lack of things for the characters to attach themselves to, hence, supports are lacklustre and rarely explore anything greater, because their is nothing greater to explore.
And I know people don't like this argument, but the mainstream appeal of Awakening, Fates, and Engage, is very much that wider appealing "anime"-style, and the main team At IS that developed those 3/5 modern games have focused on the wrong aspects of the series, but they're profiting from it, and it's just so artistically bankrupt considering where the franchise came from, and what the franchise is "meant" to be. I feel less and less passion eminating from these titles from IS's main devs, but the titles produced by a secondary team at IS, and the one produced by Koei Tecmo? Those ooze with passion all the way through. You ca see that they understand the groundwork for FE, that worldbuilding. Because even if most FEs have problems with their story, people can always dig into that world, become a part of it and find a history and lore that is most interesting.
@@tllgestalt1942The fact that they called the same people responsible for Fates(except for Shin Kibayashi) and even afther all the criticism that Fates' story got they managed to not only make something worse and more shallow, but don't even look like they tried to do anything decent at all makes me worried about FE's Future
I lowkey wish that Koei's writters took the lead in the main series
I was struck by how much Alear and Engage parallel Corrin and Fates, which I thought was the consensus least liked FE story, yet they seem insistent on bringing back many of its key plot points but with _less_ tact. Compare Corrin's and Alear's awkward amnesiac reunion with their mother followed by the mother sacrificing herself (Corrin at least had a day with Mikoto), the way their naïvete contrasts with their admirable traits and position of influence (It's a major part of Corrin's character and arc, while on Alear it mostly just comes off as an excuse for him to be annoyingly humble), and Sombron's secret sunken kingdom compared to Anankos' Valla at the bottom of the Bottomless Canyon... Corrin even also comes back from the dead, but it only happens once and it didn't break the concept of death in general.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and they're both dragons. It's strange, Corrin's dragon form is a big part of their concept in terms of fighting (see Heroes and Smash) but barely comes up in the story (Just Chapter 5, Kana paralogue, Revelations backstory, and _maybe_ a support or two) while Alear's dragon form is a big part of the story (it being what separates them from the more ordinary royals, gives them long life, and important plot points) but doesn't impact their fighting beyond a couple personal weapons.
I wouldn't be so bold as to suggest that Fates had a better story than Engage, because in Fates, the worst of the story is in the micro, like Azura's inability to explain the backstory, but I gotta say, after Shadows of Valentia and Three Houses, I thought they had gotten the hang of this 'storytelling' business. Seriously, is it too much to ask for a FE game with very good gameplay without them sacrificing the story on an altar to get it?
Careful you don't say this too loudly, or the fire emblem twitter will start attacking you. You're not allowed to care about story in fire emblem!!!
I recently read that Engage's Scenario Director is actually the same person who wrote 2 of Fates' routes, so... I guess I know where all of the Fates parallels came from. And since she got a promotion, that explains why they seem less restrained.
Can't say I'm too happy IS put her in charge, but Fates did make a lot of money so it certainly makes the decision understandable.
@@givecamichips Yeah it sucks. Can't really do anything but vote with our wallets and not buy engage. And also support good jrpgs instead with our money.
I kinda like the plot of Fates…
The fact they made a story worse than fates is honestly should be an achievement.
I didn't intend to watch more than a few minutes of this, but it's honestly so well constructed and entertaining that I stuck with it. I honestly only even checked it out because the title is great, and I'm glad I did. I like how you avoid the common pitfall of looking for snappy and easy criticisms, and instead put the effort into making a coherent argument with multiple examples. I'll keep my eye out for your next video.
Also, that weepy-faced Alear graphic is such an amazing summation of the character.
Thank you, that means so much..!!! Trying to explain this side of the reception of engage as logically and understandably as possible was a big goal for this video, precisely because of how divisive the subject is. Thank you about the Alear graphic as well lmao I actually begrudgingly had a lot of fun drawing these characters…and the Sombron to match at the end of the recap…like father like son.
I also think you do an excellent job of maintaining good faith in the discussion. I participate in a lot of FE discussion online, and it's soooo common to see a take I completely agree with expressed in a way that makes me want to disagree with it because it's so rude/condescending/lazy. Now imagine how somebody who doesn't agree would feel looking at that. I think this is the best argument I've seen in terms of trying to bridge that gap while being respectful and rigorous without dipping into the Alear-style "preaching to the poor sods who don't know any better" type of argument.
@@mouse5976 What would be an example of a rude/condescending argument? Just curious.
@@Danitron904 Here are a few I've seen:
"Gameplay is the only thing that matters, who cares about the story? Just enjoy it for what it is, FE has always had bad stories and dumb characters, this game is only criticized by 3 Houses stans, not "true" FE fans that need to be "filtered" out, gatekeeping our franchise is actually a good thing."
These statements and more are done solely to silence people making valid criticisms of the game.
Engage kinda pissed me off in a sense that it plays itself way too safe, unlike 3H, who changed the series formula and had a kinda generic but lowkey good story. But engage just has dialogue that looks AI-written, a predictable plot, and inconsistent character designs. Im also a writer, and for me the worst type of story are the ones that play safe, it just looks like the writers had no passion into creating the story
Kinda the reason why I don't give that much flack forwards Conquest because while it takes a nose dive later on for the story I still found it engaging in keeping my interest and for it having those shades of gray (like how Ryoma has to take the action of gambling a little girl's life with Elise, granted an enemy combatant still even if just a healer, he had to resort to a dirty method) whereas Birthright couldn't do this as it was a completely playing it safe story straight up white vs black and even then the plot beats for it were so dull. Conquest reads like a war story, Birthright on the other hand does not and whenever I do see someone say Birthright's story is at least better than Conquest it sounds like people just saying so to give Birthright some sort of pro (w/e kind of breadcrumbs) compared to the other version when Conquest factually has the superior gameplay.
Edit: Games for example that shine for simple story, but with great execution for their cohesive narratives are Sacred Stones and Path of Radiance.
Good video, I love how well you analyzed Engage's problems! One thing I wasn't able to articulate well about why Alear is boring is exactly what you so aptly illustrated: a) always has the moral high ground in supports and how that interacts with them not wanting to be worshipped and b) how much they repeat dialog instead of expressing their own thoughts. But honestly, it was all great. Subscribed.
Thank you so much!!! Yeah, Alear was easily my least favorite part of Engage…Usually he was the catalyst for making me skip dialogue. Thank you for watching :^D
I agree with this video 100% literally only reason I played this was for the combat. Comparing this to 3 houses for example I played through engage once. Three houses I have over 1000 hours, played through every route, and have done solo runs with every student character in the game. I love challenge runs and I have TRIED my hardest to play through engage and do challenge runs of the game but I can't bring myself to do it. I just get bored. Fire emblems fun and somewhat challenging combat is not enough to make up for the lack of literally everything else in this game.
Great video! So glad to hear someone talk about how the engage is a “simple story” excuse is complete BS. Keep up the good work! Y’all are already giving off 200k vibes with only 2,000 subs💪💪😎
The fact that IS made a main lord of the series intentionally such a little bitch because they wanted him to "relate to modern people" that Nintendo forced them to change him, resulting in one of the worse written Lords in the series will never not make me die laughing
I know……that sentiment from the directors makes me so sad and disappointed. :^(
@@CamelinCD Insert "How do you do fellow kids" meme here
No person want an bitch ass main lead in any action show or game
@@CamelinCD Byleth is still worse
@@rpgenjoyermarko Than the sentiment from the directors?
BANGER of a video, thanks! Really hope to see more from you two, this was VERY thoughtful and well-put.
Really liked the video.
My favorite FE is the Tellius series, which i would say has simple story/theme: war is bad, and racism is bad. Well, duh.
But it's all about experiencing WHY these things are bad through the lens of the characters, that made it worthwhile to me.
Feeling characters you like being discriminated by other character you also like, who are otherwise good people, really stuck with me.
And hits different from just being told they hate each other.
Path of Radiance I would class as simple...sorta. Radiant Dawn on the other hand...is debatable. I love both games tho, they are peak Fire Emblem for me alongside FE4 and FE5 (jugdral games)
2:01:49 - Do not fight that urge to write them off. Once you are truly okay treating units with contempt, seeing them as nothing more than toys for your memes and sadistic amusements, you will unlock unlimited powers.
Just ask Excelblem.
You raise a very compelling point 🤔
@@CamelinCDKill every last one of them.
Playing SoV Clive was such a pain in the butt. Useless, died to a literal 1% crit after missing a 80+ hit which would have killed and so on. Only reason I didn't let him stay dead was because Mathilde is a weapon of mass destruction and I like her. Unlike Clive. Fortunately for Clive, she for some reason likes him.
But nah next time I play if he dies, he dies. No time powers to save him.
I want to say thank you for making this video. As someone who actually has a hard time writing you helped open my eyes to being a writer more than any CZcams video dedicated on the subject has taught me. Definitely one of my favorite videos out there. Felt both analytical and sentimental and the ending about family was heart-provoking as well. All from a game I haven't even played yet. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much for watching!! Hearing that makes me so happy…!! :,^DD
I really appreciated this video. It helped clarify what I disliked about this game, and I think provided some insight that might make me a better writer. I re-watched the 3:00 section an ungodly number of times to get the exact quote about when writers ignore the rules for their world. Very well said!
If I wanted to add anything to this 2 hour video, it would be to mention the effect of this game not having any epilogs for the characters related to their support levels. I've only played a few Fire Emblem games, but that's always been a part of it. "Louis and Ivy went on to get married and stare at people together" or whatever. It makes all those supports and connections all the more important. And in Engage people just... kinda all do their own thing. You may have been sworn best buddies or making romantic allusions, but after the game you'll make no effort to even hang out anymore.
It fits well with the contrivance of everything else. Supports are just conversations unconnected to anything going on in the world or game.
My one criticism of the video is the Alcryst scene where he nearly kills the Divine Dragon is literally the best one in the game, hands down. It's slightly better with female Alear and her blank expression of "I should be dead. I SHOULD BE DEAD!" I've gone back to watch that and laugh out loud again when Alcryst goes from badass to apologetic. I've shown it to others to laugh at it with them. It's absolutely perfect.
Now the characterization of Alcryst given there is completely at odds with him with the rest of the game, which was a huge, huge let down to me. He could have been such a good character if he'd been allowed to oscillate between badass and overconfident while actually timid and believing he was worthless on the inside. But, as you say in this video, everything that happens here is just for that moment with no connection to any larger pattern for a character or theme for the story.
Aaa thank you so much!! :,^D Yeah I was so surprised by the lack of paired endings. Honestly I was surprised by the character endings at all-the way the series typically phrases it as a sort of piece of history-like the excerpts were written by historians or something-just didn’t suit Engage at all, since it felt like such a strange blend of modern and medieval, and the world was so shallow. It didn’t feel like time would progress in any perceivable way so to see some writing at the end like “legends say Alear went on to blah blah blah” made me think… There is more in this universe beyond Alear and this one story? 🤨 I also thought the scene with Alcryst was pretty funny. I gotta applaud them for going all in on the goofy for that one!
Anyway thank you very much for watching!! :^D
The problem of supports not being allowed to have real character growth is one of the major downsides of Awakening-style supports. In GBA FE, the inability to get more than one A support was a major tool in letting real development happen in said A support. I thought Three Houses and (Three Hopes) largely patched that problem by locking many supports to time periods where the characters could undergo plot character growth before bringing it up in the supports (and locking you out of support chains entirely if you missed their windows), as well as support chains you knew wouldn't lead anywhere deep because they only went to B, and also adding chains that got even more in-depth because they had C+ or B+ conversations in addition to the main 3. Three Hopes even made support levels that didn't even have any conversation!
I'm a bit disappointed they removed the story progression locks on supports, but I guess it does interfere with shipping (Which was a legitimate reason in Awakening, so you couldn't be locked out of too many children [and technically legit in Fates for the same reason but Fates children were wack in concept anyway]).
EDIT: Actually, even in Three Houses the story locks were kinda underused, mainly just used to lock pre-/post-timeskip supports, and to do Leonie dirty. But to expand too much more kind of encroaches on the base conversation style of talks, which fulfil a different function both in plot and character development. I still think it's worth a try if they want to keep the base conversations as inane as they've generally been in the past 4 original games. Shadows of Valentina has the right balance IMO, as does New Mystery. If they refined it, it would be a worthy feature.
Bond supports are short enough and often inconsequential enough that it would probably be better if they put all eight of the lines together, unlocked when you reach bond support A (or B, if you don't want people to have to grind as much).
Well, if nothing else, I don't think this has a particular effect in the future of Fire Emblem because Engage and Three Houses were actually developed completely in parallel, only sharing two producers (one of them being Nintendo's nexus to IS, and the other being the guy that has done producer work for every game in the franchise since Awakening), a composer and very little else among the cast, even among the people that was from IS, Engage had the main bulk of IS's devs, meanwhile Three Houses had Kusakihara.
Meanwhile I don't think this means are gonna improve, I think at least there are two conflicting views on how supports should be done in the company, created around the same time from two very different evolutions from what Fates and Echoes did.
@@troykv96 Considering Engage released 4 years after Three Houses and they were adding things up until that last year, I wouldn't think it would be too much to implement a feature that helps with a long-standing problem in the series.
Then again, that only counts if they do think of it as a problem. And Engage characters largely don't go through character development like 3H characters do, so maybe it's a moot point, but they could have at least used it for after the death of some characters parents.
@@givecamichips Yeah, I think it was maybe a bit too late considering how most of the work done in the last year was bug-testing and adding more gameplay stuff... But it could have been nice.
This is a difference on perspective definitely, we gotta wait to see which one ends up being favored for the next time.
Excellent video! I'm happy to see more in-depth analysis of FE stories.
Also, not to sound like too much of a hater, I'm happy to see a video that examines engage's flaws specifically. I feel like I'm getting gaslit hearing people say the story isn't bad.
I know exactly what you mean-not haters, just passionate! I felt the same way, watching this conflict play out for so long. Without acknowledging these very prevalent flaws that drove away so many fans, we won’t ever see improvement. Although more people are coming around to the idea now, it was definitely frustrating at the time lol.
I will say, for me my experience of the story felt like a roller coaster that went up and seemed like it would go down fast but it just went down really slow, the Firene arc I excused cause it was the first, the brodia arc was amazing to me, even though we hadn't known king morion or the brodian princes for long i still thought the game did a really good job showing their anguish and sadness, the elusia arc itself wasn't really good but I still enjoyed ivy and hortensia's arcs and stories(which I have to add I really like a lot of this games cast and the stuff they have but I still hate that the well written characters are the exception and characters don't appear in the story except for the nobles). After that I just stopped caring about the story cause it did a lot of drama that I didn't enjoy, I love fogado and timera but they don't have any good moments in the story and the last stretch of the game felt like a bad melodrama to me except the final map and the map where you go back in time to fail evilear
Brilliant video! This *exactly* nails a bunch of criticisms I had of Engage, and more. (Truth be told, I gave up on the game before the endgame because I no longer had any faith that slogging through contrived nonsense with no setup, thought, or consistency would actually pay off...and boy howdy does it ever seem like I guessed right. 😥) You've earned a new subscriber.
As a supplement to your own observations, here is a sampling of contemporaneous story thoughts I recorded while playing back in February 2023:
- The protag awakens, and we already have our first nonsensical line. "You're the divine dragon!" exclaims a surprised guy whose job title is literally *Steward of the Dragon*. Why is he expressing surprise at the fact that Alear is the divine dragon???
- Alear's mom shows up in dragon form in a cut scene and blasts some Corrupted; she then transforms into a human and floats down to the earth. The shot is framed around her boobs and waist, and only then pans up to show her face. I *sincerely* hope this isn't Alear's POV.
- Hey, what do you know: the castle's under attack, and Queen Lumera is off defending the ring vault by herself! I'm sure that will end well. Good thing Queen Lumera prepared for the resurrection of the fell dragon by maintaining a large armed guar...just kidding! It's only you.
- Back to Alfred for a second. He tells us he showed up to ask for Queen Lumera's help dealing with the Corrupted now swarming Firene. So...*does* Lythos have an army, then? Or was he expecting Lumera to run around and fix everything with her whopping 3 soldiers?
- It makes no sense for Elusia, of all places, to be invading Firene. As established by the world map, Elusia and Firene are on exact opposite sides of the largest, outermost "ring" continent. They share no borders, and the inner rings prevent a direct naval route. Firene has a peace treaty with Brodia and...the, uh, other country, so I can't see Elusia sailing past those countries (or just marching a land army straight through one of those other countries) without raising alarm bells. What's more, Alfred tells us that Brodia makes a habit of invading Elusia! Even leaving aside how incredibly difficult it would be to transport an army to Firene, Elusia would have to maintain supply lines across hostile territory to keep up the invasion--and would leave Elusia relatively undefended against Brodia in the process. Just mind-bogglingly stupid.
- Yunaka claims some bandits stole the ring from her. She leads the group to a nearby village for a nighttime raid to reclaim it, and battle ensues. Post-fight, Alfred says, "I wonder who took the ring from the shrine?" Stunningly, Alear replies: "It must have been the bandits." Alear. My dude. My divine dragon-y dude. Yunaka *just told you* that the bandits took the ring *from her*. I just...I can't with this.
- We proceed toward the castle, but Hortensia--second princess of Elusia--is occupying the bridge. Hortensia informs us that she is here with a small force, having captured no territory on her way to the castle, and is here solely to attack us and take our Emblem rings. Her sister is simultaneously attacking Brodia castle, leaving her free to focus on us. But how did they march two armies all the way through Brodia, one of them straight to the capital? Geographically, this would be like England landing an army on the east coast of the United States and marching to simultaneously capture Boise and Dallas and somehow making it to both undetected--except that in our example, Boise is also the capital of the US.
- Chapter 8 begins; we reach Brodia castle, and there is no enemy army in sight. Crown prince Diamante greets us. He seems surprised at the news that Elusia's crown princess is due to attack. Princess Ivy of Elusia flies in on a wyvern in a CG cut scene; in the background, we see Brodian soldiers actively battling Elusian soldiers. It cuts to normal dialogue, and Ivy says: "My soldiers are on the way. Now, I will give you a chance to surrender before they arrive." Um.
- The game is trying *so hard* to make me sad about losing the Emblem Rings in Chapter 11! The score is going full Rachmaninoff, and Veyle keeps outfitting Emblem Rings on random corrupted to make life difficult. If I defeat a corrupted unit with a ring, Veyle stops time and takes it. Hilariously, we learn mid-battle that Lily's retainer Zelkov *actually stole the time crystal* off of Veyle, so now there is no narrative justification at all for Veyle being able to recover the rings off of fallen corrupted from across the map. The devs were so loathe to take time rewinding and Emblem Rings away from the player that they couldn't even last a full battle before undermining their own narrative to give them back. Incredible stuff.
- We ride into the Solmic desert, then have a lesiurely meet-and-greet with Timerra while her retainers struggle to survive off-camera. Time for another fight in fog of war with torches scattered around the battlefield. For reasons that go wholly unexplained, the bandits are somehow commanding a huge force of Corrupted. Also, we're now in a village that the bandits are attacking. I thought we were camping in the desert?
_ We beat the Hounds, and They Can't Fall Here. This is old hat, granted, but this time they're backed into a corner: a throne room with only one exit. And I'm blocking it. They're trapped. I guess I'm meant to believe that Alear just...stupidly lets them all go anyway?
- A thought occurs to me: who the hell is running Brodia right now? The princes are both with us, the king is dead. Did Diamante decide to leave his kingdom in chaos just so he could stay on as our soldier?
- We run into Rosado and Goldmary on the beach with Elusian soldiers in pursuit. Rosado is relieved to see Hortensia, but doesn't believe she's on Alear's side at first. Hortensia mentions that Ivy is on Alear's side, too, then asks if her own retainers will join her. Hold on. Why *weren't* her retainers with her in the first place? The entire surviving royalty of Elusia is now on Alear's side--why *wouldn't* they join? And not knowing any of that, why *did* they steal a ring and desert the Elusian army? None of this makes any sense!
- Zephia reawakens Bad Veyle over Good Veyle's protests. Bad Veyle states that she doesn't share Good Veyle's memories, then immediately, blatantly contradicts this principle by talking about things that were discussed *before* Bad Veyle reawakened.
- Bad Veyle is responsible for all the corrupted, apparently; and apparently, she's...*better* at making them than Sombron? What? Okay, hold on, this raises a lot of questions. Where was Veyle over these past 1,000 years? Is her power to raise the corrupted new? Did Lumera know Veyle was such a huge threat? If so, was Lumera searching for her? If not, is it because Zephia wasn't controlling Veyle the whole time? Was Zephia even around? Where did Zephia *come* from?
- Good Veyle wakes up, pretends to be Bad Veyle, asks for the Sigurd ring from Zephia, and then...suddenly CGI, and Veyle is on board a ship? Veyle magics the ring over to Alear on the docks. Veyle is easily 100 feet away from Alear, and yet somehow carries on a conversation with him in a normal speaking voice about how much their friendship meant to her. Then suddenly, the CGI bit ends and inexplicably they are all back on the docks again. Zephia is *furious*: she slaps Veyle and threatens to never let her reawaken again! (As punishment for stealing the ring, presumably, not for breaking the laws of time, space, and sequential occurrence.)
- Our heroes witness Veyle's predicament. Diamante suggests rescuing her; Alear vetoes this, saying that they need to put out the fires and rebuild the port town. This is *so* insanely stupid. They vanquished the invading army, defeated all of its commanders, and not only are they letting them retreat (with 4 of the Emblem rings, no less), they're letting them retreat *to re-brainwash the dragon who's responsible for raising all of the corrupted*! Why is no one even mentioning this?! And Alear's reason for not pursuing them: "We, the army of good, have more important things to do than win an existential war of good against evil. That's right, folks: we need to *play volunteer fire department*." Does no one in the nation of Firene know how to use buckets?
...annnnnnnnnd that is where I noped out of my playthrough. 😅
This is such a fantastic comment. So much of this I didn’t quite put my finger on, but totally felt, particularly in the sheer confusion of the decisions these factions were making during the core conflict. There were so many things that could’ve so easily been smoothed over, even just with visual storytelling. Thank you so much for watching and leaving this comment! :,,^))
@@CamelinCD Thank you! I develop SRPGs; thinking about factional motivations and the material realities that underpin them is a key skillset needed to tell stories like these. You had some very good insights yourself here; I look forward to seeing more of your videos!
@@techpriest6962 I don't have a strong preference for any particular narrative themes in SRPGs--theme is just a simple idea that the story is built around. So long as the theme isn't overtly objectionable, it's the execution of the encapsulating story that really counts, IMO.
The major story beats, characterization, and overall writing quality in Engage are so reminiscent of what we got in Fire Emblem Fates that I'm inclined to believe they're simply the same writers taking a second crack at telling a Dysfunctional Dragon Family story (albeit having learned not quite enough from their first attempt).
Thank you so much for this video, You really helped me understand all the issues I had with Engage in a nice and concise manner. Engage is one of the most shallowest games in my opinion due to how the story feels like a poorly written fanfiction or how the characters often feel shallow, one note, and uninteresting due to relying on quirks without the change to grow or mature as people in either the story or the majority of their supports. So many times, I felt like the game constantly tried its hardest to make the players what to shut if off due to how dispassionate and corporate many of its aspects felt in conjunction with its half-baked themes and mechanics. So many other games like Three houses, Tellius games, Blazing blade and more had passion and often complexity into its setting or world as it treated its audience as adults and helped them understand who the characters were in a meaningful way. Engage feels like a joke with its shallow story, one note characters, over reliance on nostalgia and other issues.
I'm four minutes in and it is already easy to tell that you put more thought into the craft of writing than engage does, I assume your overall opinion will not be positive.
Thank you so much!! I hope you enjoyed watching! :^DD
This video is beautifully done and perfectly captures my issues with engage’s story in ways I wouldn’t have been able to articulate.
Ah thank you so much!!! I’m glad I could make something you resonated with! :^DD
@@CamelinCD Your editing and humor is great too! I could easily watch the whole 2 hours!
i really like your points about obligation vs artistic intent. commercial art does intend to make money, but the reason people buy art is to feel or experience things! art made purely from financial incentive is rotten to its core - it may look nice on the surface but the deeper you look into it the less human it is, and the only way it inspires fondness is when it reminds you (via surface level references) of art that did care about something. i feel like the rising surge of fan culture and franchising has doomed a lot of art to be made from obligation, where new entries in long running franchises have to be made even if the people making them don't have anything left they want to say with the characters and world. anyway, great video!!
I lived long enough to see my beloved franchises becoming villians.
What des this mean? Fire emblem is not out for the count just because it oscilates between good gameplay or good story between entries.
“Engage writing is like a Twitter thread” Jesus Christ your right! This game was doomed from the beginning
While I haven't played Engage (I've watched quite a bit about it and I've played FE since Awakening), your video pretty much summed up why I skipped it. I had just finished Pokemon Scarlet/Violet before release, and despite that game's issues, I thought it did a pretty good job at it's story. It took itself seriously and I in turn cared about the characters and the plot. Just from looking at Engage's marketing, I could just tell that the game was going to try and take itself seriously while I would be unable to.
Stories don't necessarily need to be 100% integral to a story, but I feel they're more important in RPGs. Stories are a HUGE part of this genre, and claiming that stories are not important to an RPG is almost contradictory. I feel that there has to be a good balance of intriguing gameplay and a compelling narrative.
I also really dislike Nintendo's approach to reintroducing older Fire Emblem characters to a new audience. I don't emulate, so I haven't played a majority of the older titles. I don't want to learn about who Roy is through Engage or Heroes, I want to play the Binding Blade! If Nintendo wants me to care about who Roy is and get attached to him, then I want to see him in action in his own game, not in an all-stars type game where the most I get to learn about him is through incredibly generic lines such as "Make sure you take care of yourself when you're hurt" or something simple like that.
I have soooo many thoughts regarding this game from what I've seen and heard. I almost want to play this game just to have a more valid opinion on it, but I don't want to play it at the same time, lol. Great video by the way. Your analysis was INCREDIBLE! :)
I completely agree! I think going into a game not expect a complete product of what is promised and with the maximum amount of effort put into all of its most important facets is exactly what the creators want people to do precisely so they then don’t have to put in the maximum amount of effort/time/money. I don’t think “just ignore the story” is the defense it seems like it is. Thank you for watching and commenting!! :^))
Eh feh is nice because it can give more time to characters that otherwise wouldn't get the opportunity. And theres still plenty of nice moments for those that have had the spotlight in their origin games.
What’s weird is despite engage being an anniversary game the past heroes in the rings barely talk about their past games. It just seems like they got added for the sole purpose of it being an anniversary game.
@@Yoshixandir I agree. I've played the game since making this post (haven't finished it yet) and the most the emblems have is some sort of throwaway line referencing the games they come from. :/
I just wanna pop in and say i particularly loved your final statement in regards to how media/art can be engaged with and analyzed as more than just a means to an end.
The soullessness you went in on for the game is exactly the reason why i dopped out of the game after a few hours despite liking the gameplay on a surface level. Engage does near nithing to invest me in anything the game is 'trying' to say or convey with its story or characters, from the gaudy character designs and beyond, and so it creates this atmosphere of "why am i doing this?" when, like you said, it's just a way to spend 60 hours. There's nothing to be meaningfully gained from the characters or the way they're set up in this world, which is a huge reason why I'm a fan of Fire Emblem in the first place and not so much of, like, Xcom.
Engage felt like a Compile Heart or generic gacha game where things happen because they happen and I'm just supposed to care because the characters are cute and that's incredibly boring.
Nice video, the only way I could articulate my dislike of the story/dialogue was that there was SO MUCH dialogue that said so little, so hearing you describe the issues effectively was good. I also rolled my eyes so hard at Lumera & Morions dialogues, they made it so obvious that they were about to die. I'm surprised they weren't both given dead anime mum haircuts just to make it more obvious.
The overlaid "I AM THE DIVINE DRAGON" scenes was amazing btw
HAHA Thank you!! That’s how I felt as well. There’s so much extra fat in the dialogue that could easily be cut out without losing anything at all, and it would probably make the experience better. Thank you for watching! :^D
41:03 "I don't treat people differently just because they're cute" is such a funny line to me, because like... look around, Alear. Do you see any unattractive people in your army? Even a single one? 🤔
I'm enjoying the hell out of this video. It's nice to see someone take the time and effort to break down why this game is so bland.
i think the hortensia scene in solm almost had something but was kinda ruined by engage goofiness and the fact that hortensia also was just brainwashed
Thank you so much for this video, it spoke right out of my heart. I cannot thank you enough for explaining in detail the difference between simple and shallow storytelling. I am fan of many game franchises which like to hide their lack of care for their stories behind "simple" storytelling which is echoed by large parts of the fanbases and as someone who has been learning about creative writing for years now and has taken university classes on literary criticism, these repeated statements have made me want lie down and stare at the ceiling in despair more than a few times. I'll be sure to come back to this video for reference later down the line.
I also find myself unable to understand the large praise this game is receiving. The trailers were very overt about which demographic they were aiming at and immediately dissuaded me from spending any money on the game. I knew the story was going to frustrate me beyond belief and I wasn't willing to relive my experience with Fates anytime soon. When the game came out, pretty much every review contained glowing praise while I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone. It's bizarre to me how so many people are willing to overlook such a soulless story just for the sake of good gameplay and pay such high prices for it.
Thank you so much!! Yes, I think that’s what frustrates me most about this conversation-the “simple story” thing. Living in the Twilight Zone is a good way to explain it LMAOO. I’m so glad I could make something that resonated with you…!! :,^DDD
As soon as I got a new big-chested character I’d set their Somniel costume to one of the generic ones. Since there are so many characters there’s only 2-4 set body types, so the gigantic honkers on people like Yunaka and Goldmary became normal sized when equipped.
This video is very good. Legit thought it had 100 times the views, absolutely deserves more than it has.
*points at your rewrite aggressively and shouts at the writers of this game*
Who would've thunk that THEMES make the story BETTER!
WHAT A CONCEPT IS!!!
Ever since Fire Emblem's big revival on the 3DS, Awakening, it's always felt like Fire Emblem takes a good step forward (Awakening and 3 Houses) it takes a _very_ bad step backwards to be humbled (Fates and Engage) at least storywise, and nothing encapsulates this better than the major deaths along these four games. _Spoilers ahead for a warning_
All four of these games have a single major death that makes or breaks the story and the characters (or in Fates' case it has like... 8. But for now we'll focus on one.) Awakening had Emmeryn, Fates had Queen Mikoto, 3H had Jeralt, and Engage has Lumeria.
Emmeryn's death not only affects the course of the story, but the characters both good AND bad with everyone's favorite minor boss Mustafa. Having taken place immediately after Emmeryn's death, Mustafa and his men are so affected by her sacrifice that Mustafa gives his men an opportunity to lay down their arms as all of them are having second thoughts about the war. From this point on, the rest of the arc is driven by a sense of vengeance for Emmeryn and the subsequent arc as Chrom is now the king
Queen Mikoto's death is, depending on the game you bought, relevant for the chapter it happens in and then one or two more times later. It feels like it was written just to introduce Corrin's dragon powers and be the main reason on why you shouldn't side with Nohr.
Byleth is not the most well written character since, as a silent protagonist we unfortunately don't get to SEE his emotions a lot. But the cutscene where Jeralt dies managed to not only show but show WELL how much Jeralt meant to Byleth. Byleth's time rewinding shenanigans are only plot relevant twice. When it first happens and when he's actively attempting to stop Jeralt from dying. Yes, he only rewinds once but I think that one rewind is used well. He tries to stop Jeralt's death with the only option available to him, given his distance from the scene, and this attempt fails. With this failure, Byleth shows their first major emotion of the game. Jeralt's death even resonates through to the next chapter where EVERYONE in the monastery is upset at his death, some even swearing to Byleth they'll help in getting _revenge_ even if a lot of them didn't know him very well.
Lumera has already been talked about plenty in this video but her role of being an exposition device before dying is truly probably the worst thing I could think of. The game doesn't even bother trying to hide that she'll die when you meet her because of the death flags given aside from being a main character's parent in a fire emblem game.
I may not be an analytical person when it comes to video game writing, but having played all four of these games I didn't feel a sense of disconnect with Emmeryn and Jeralt like I did with Mikoto and Lumera. From Chrom's desperate sprint to Emmeryn to Byleth's attempt at altering fate to save Jeralt, I felt sad and connected because I had come to _know_ the characters related to these scenes and I feel just as motivated as the characters do for revenge, unlike how Corrin and Alear feel about their own mothers they'd both known for a total of like an hour each.
You made the definitive video on Engage. Good job. Subscribed. Whatever you cover next, I cannot wait for more
What fun! You can thank CZcams for pushing this in front of me, and I'm glad it did. I appreciated your viewpoint a lot, and I think you did a great job with the presentation, editing, and tone. Eager to see what else you have to offer going forward!