Week 268 - The Isolation of Army Group North - October 14, 1944
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- čas přidán 13. 10. 2023
- Churchill and Stalin meet at the Moscow Conference and talk about future 'spheres of influence' in the Balkans. They also make plans for the future of Poland. In the field the Soviet Red Army completes the isolation of Army Group North and also advances in Hungary and Yugoslavia. The Allies enter Aachen in the west and cross the Rubicon in italy.
The Americans are still fighting the Japanese on Peleliu, and this week also make raids against Japanese airfields ahead of next week's invasion of the Philippines.
01:00 Recap
01:22 The Moscow Conference begins
03:43 Isolating Army Group North
06:29 Soviet advances toward Belgrade
08:14 The Debrecen Operation
13:20 Horthy and Hungary
14:30 Chiang Kai-shek accuses Joe Stilwell
16:19 American raids on Formosa
19:29 The fight for Peleliu continues
20:01 Antwerp and Aachen
22:01 The Allies cross the Rubicon
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Research by: Indy Neidell & James Newman
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Artwork by: Mikołaj Uchman
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We’ve already seen Army Group Centre destroyed this year. Will Army Group North be next? Army Group North which, three long years ago, marched into the Soviet Union, occupied the Baltic states, laid siege to Leningrad, and fought Hitler’s race war against the supposed Judeo-Bolshevik menace. Now the tables have turned and it seems that Hitler can do very little to prevent his enemies dismantling the Wehrmacht.
Wow it came a day early. Why?
Why did Riga fall so quickly? Wouldnt a big City be better to defend and eventually evacuate like the Kurland Pocket?
@@The-Aviating-Gaming-PlaneNo it didn't? it's Saturday...unless you are with the Time Ghost army then you get to see the episode earlier.
Personally I think that it's a shame that the Japanese were able to take so much in the first 5 1/2 months after Pearl Harbor. Imagine if British had held onto Singapore, parts of Malaysia. While the Dutch held some of Indonesia, and the Americans held parts of the Philippines.
Especially if the USA committed to a 50/50 approach to the war. In theory the USA would be fighting the Japanese in China. Imagine if Patton was leading a mechanized army liberating China. In theory the Soviet Union would still have beaten the German Armies in the East but it would have been a longer affair. Without as many American troops in western Europe, it is probable that the Allies would not attack Italy. Instead they would focus on France, allowing for a similar amount of troops that we had in our timeline.
If the British had a better combined arms doctrine, I think that also would have helped. The different branches of their Army were very very independent of each other, so they did not work together as effectively. Just like if the British had more troops for the battle of France, maybe double, or even as many troops as the French did. Then it would have been a very different battle, the French had 4 times as many troops as the British did. The Germans had about 6 times as many troops, but because of the lack of reserves the break through could not be contained properly, and they evacuated.
@@Ronald98 it was on the week by week Playlist as unlisted. Guess someone accidentally put it there
Churchill and Stalin: "...and we'll partition Yugoslavia."
Tito: "Wanna bet?"
1991: wanna bet, because you will lose?
And the same stance was on the Yalta conference 1944.
Yugoslavia in any form just didn't have a chance, an obsolete state.
Yugoslavia was established as a form of Royal imperialism at first, developed in succession in to a communist imperialism with invented nation yugoslav fascism.
Tito's masterpiece was that he played a double game, one for the capital and the Serbs- centralized unionist one, and for the rest- federal separatist one.
Churchill to Tito in heaven: HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Also Tito to Churchill when pointing at a map of the modern British “empire”: HAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Judging by the 4th Communists Conference in Dresden in 1928, after the assassination of Croatian MP CP Party in SCS Kingdom Parliament, and by Churchill's anti communist believes, decision to end Yugoslavia state came from both powerhouses, was unilateral.
Only fanatics singleminded leftovers of the central administration in Belgrade believe in so called yugoslav idea and politics.
My late father in law was a Russian artillery officer who served in the sector across from army gruppe north. From what he described to me, It was a lot like WW1 with him being in trench warfare for almost 2 whole years before they started the big offense. He was wounded pretty bad in his shoulder while fighting against the Courland pocket and was evacuated. He sat out the rest of the war and lived until 2010. He was 87 years old, his name was Nikolai Citnov. He was a great guy who loved smoked mackerel and picking mushrooms
May Nikolai rest in peace and as a former soldier, I salute him and thank him for his service.
Thx for sharing this story !
In an indirect way he and his comrades helped save my Dad fighting as an anti-aircraft artillery man on the Western front...and perhaps, visa-versa. Salute!
It's very nice that he got to live to 87, despite taking a bad shoulder wound.
May you have many moments of smoked mackerel and mushrooms to remember him :)
If I was a German soldier, the number one commander who I would have absolutely HATED serving under would have been Schoerner.
From what I understand, he was pretty universally despised by his men.
Why? Sorry
If i am honest, i was surprised that when he came back from Sovjet Captivity, that he wasnt shot by One of his former soldiers. This man was just as worse as H*tler, ordering men who deserted hanged, but when he was threatend to be captured in Czechia at the End of the War, he fled and left his Army Group to be captured. What an asshole honestly
ol bloody Ferdinand seems awful in every way
To be fair even if he wasn’t a strategic genius he kept his men fighting till the end
The map from the beginning of the episode really made it sink in that things are truly nearing the end for the third Reich, and yet so much death and suffering still yet to come in this war.
The maps provide a great perspective on the progression of the war as well as the scale. Unfortunately, you are correct about it not being quite over just yet. Thank you for watching.
When you see it week by week, you get to see just how long the Germans fought a losing war.
Will you post a video compiling the map changes episode by episode? I think that would look amazing.@@WorldWarTwo
I’m surprised at how badly things have turned against the Germans in the east.
We've gotten used to the massive scale of a global war, there is still more territory to fight through than most other wars prior had to in total
“Army Group F” is an a good name for a German army group at this time
they're all F tier now lol
Army Group *FUCK*
Absolutely no respect will be paid at any point.
Press 'F' (for any Army Group on the eastern front)
@@lucykwiatek5159 unless you’re a member of the Canadian Parliament
In relation to Japan's suicidal code of honour: Patton said to his soldiers that he didn't want them to die for their country, he wanted their opponents to die for their country. Japan offered that up on a plate and sometimes almost free of charge.
Often full of charge, however 😉
Patton also slapped a guy suffering from shell shock and called him a coward. A guy who if Patton had actually asked his doctors wanted to return to the front, but the doctors determined was medically unable do do so. Patton’s code of honour wasn’t really that different from the Japanese.
The actual quote is something closer to: "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. "
Six years later in Korea, another great American general, one James Van Fleet, put it that "we must expend steel and fire, not men."
"A man has to be alert all the time if he expects to keep on breathing. If not, some German son-of-a-bitch will sneak up behind him and beat him to death with a sock full of shit. There are four hundred neatly marked graves in Sicily, all because one man went to sleep on the job-but they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before his officer did." -Patton, 44
@@francesconicoletti2547 I'm not defending Patton as a person, I'm just quoting a good point he made.
While the KMT was incredibly corrupt, Chiang Kai Shek's criticisms of Stilwell are largely correct. These two have had bad blood since 1942. Stilwell repeatedly ignored Chiang's orders in Burma, and outright just abandoned the first Chinese Expeditionary Force at the end of that campaign, leaving it leaderless as the Japanese largely surrounded and destroyed it.
Following this, Stilwell then prioritized regaining his personal honour and pride in Burma, by demanding as much of Chinese Lend Lease supplies as possible be diverted to his personal army in India, and not the one in China. He also demanded that Chiang make large scale offensives into Burma from Yunnan, ignoring that Chinese strategy largely called on first being re-quipped and reformed by the very lend lease aid Stilwell was hoarding before going on any attack.
Now in 1944, as Chiang states, Stilwell has kept his Burma tunnel vision levels up to 100, even at the cost of his own American comrades in Merill's Marauders. He demanded Chiang attack with some of his best troops into Burma, even as the Japanese Ichi Go attack wrecks Eastern China.
I'm not sure if this channel will cover it, but it even reaches a point where Stilwell writes of his desire to shoot Chiang and cause enough friction and defeats in the Nationalist camp to personally take over. At the Battle of Guilin, he personally gives the order for all American supplies, forces and aid to leave the city, crippling the defence before it began.
Stilwell and his view of the Nationalists would absolutely poison US-Chinese relations in a way that we are still seeing be played out in the modern day.
Chiang's many deficiencies as a commander/leader need to be taken into context. Stillwell was far from alone in his views of Chiang/the KMT. Just as Stillwell was poor at being a diplomat, so too did Chiang play an equal part in souring relations (and also between his own forces). Many Americans, not just Stillwell, were frustrated by what they perceived as Chiang's refusal to fight the Japanese--Chiang preferring instead to preserve their forces for when the civil war resumed after the war. That was the perception, at least. Madame Chiang was far more effective in her diplomacy.
Stillwell was infuriated by what he saw as Chiang's prevarications/deceptions in his repeated bluffs to lend aid/go on the offensive. Maybe just as important, Stillwell wanted Nationalist forces to cooperate with the Chinese Communists, something repellent to Chiang. Of course, Chiang had his own reasons--understandable from his perspective--but not something acceptable to Stillwell.
Fundamentally, I think, American strategy had turned toward the Pacific, and not mainland China, as the theater for defeating Japan. Stillwell wanted to command American divisions in battle; however, he never got the forces he wanted and was his role became primarily to supply China and keep it in the war. He should have been recalled back in 1942. He probably could requested and been granted command in Europe somewhere, but his legendary stubbornness kept him in Asia.
One thing I've read was that Stillwell was infuriated to learn that huge amounts of American aid were never being deployed against Japan, but were instead being stored for a future offensive against the Communists. However, I only recall that in summary. I'm wondering if anyone has any more information about that--to what extent was it even happening, or anything else.
there's always two sides to every story...way too much graft going on to suit Vinegar Joe.
@@moss8448 There are two sides to every story, and often both are wrong. Stiwell and Chiang is one such case.
@@FalseNomen I think the main problem in the first place was that the American supplies into China was never sufficient enough for the Chinese army to go on the mass counterattack that American leadership envisioned. We have to keep in mind that the Chinese economy was in tatters (corruption absolutely made the issue worse, but unoccupied China was certainly not economically viable at this point). Free China was landlocked and entirely reliant on outside aid to even keep the Chongqing KMT running. Each Japanese offensive still resulted in much higher casualties for the Chinese than the Japanese.
American leadership knew from the beginning that this front was not their highest priority. Their main goal was to simply prevent Chiang from surrendering. Stilwell absolutely had the wrong expectations as well, as he constantly believed that changing leadership alone would allow the Chinese to better fight the Japanese. His assessment of the Communists' role in fighting the Japanese army was also entirely incorrect, as the KMT certainly bore much of the fighting and casualties. In the end, Stilwell's conduct only made a tense situation even worse.
This is not to say the KMT leadership was blameless. It was a horribly corrupt regime that was falling apart, but the Americans definitely went in with the wrong expectations.
@@yuchenchen8012 The fallacy that the KMT bore the most casualties is incorrect. Civilians bore the most casualties, and the communists' main support was from the civilians. In fact, most communists were civilians doing guerilla warfare.
It's somewhat comforting to know that Rommel would, in a sense, have the last laugh.
During the Nuremburg Trials, whenever the excuse "I was following orders" or "If I refused to commit these war crimes I would be executed" came out from German commanders. The allies would simply point at Rommel, who regularly refused to commit atrocities and (as much as this war could be) conducted his part of the war in a professional manner which (again, as much as it could be) followed the laid down rules of warfare at the time.
Rommel would cost every German Commander, guilty of atrocities, their one potential excuse. He may not have lived to see the end of the war, but he ensured the men responsible for Nazi atrocities would have no excuses.
Unfortunately most of them still got off easy and faced no serious consequences for their atrocities.
I liked ur comment but the thing to consider is Rommel was Hitler's favorite n the superstar of Third Reich. He was confident he can't be touched unlike other generals n commanders who were hung by piano wires while Rommel was given a state funeral, pension for his family n chance to take his lifw himself. The others would also risk their family.
@@Healermain15
They still had to face God’s judgement.
We ALL still have to face God’s Judgement.
People forget that.
We are all created to be eternal. The wicked will be judged for all eternity…
and without knowing Jesus… the wicked ain’t got a chance in eternity.
Rommel is a myth. Both in a sense of being anti Nazi and as a commander.
@@alitlweirdand just how the f*ck did your, or any other God punish them?
No i believe they who were guilty of Crimes against Humanity should have been send the the chaimbers where milions died and whoever is upthere w8ing for us after we die should just sort them out.
If you commited crimes here, you should be punished here.
Yesterday was my Grandpa's first day of action with the 8th RECCE of the Canadian Army. He said it was the first time in his life that he was ever afraid of another man. Today is my Grandma's birthday (actually her 100th specifically if she were still with us) and while I never saw the contents of the letter, I imagine essentially saying "Happy birthday, I had my first day of combat yesterday" was a pretty shocking birthday surprise for my Grandma. Grandpa would serve through the rest of the war and would then participate in the early stages of the occupation of Germany before being discharged and sent home.
Your Grandpa stepping into combat a day before your Grandma's birthday - such contrasting experiences. Thanks for sharing this piece of your family's history with us.
I really enjoy Indy doing phone cosplaying it really puts you in the mood, and makes you curious, followed by a briefing. Awesome
Thank you for watching!
The wholesale relocation of non-combatants based on ethnicity (based on relocating national boundaries) should be covered in your War Against Humanity series!
It certainly will be. War crimes didn't stop after the armistices were signed.
Example of this is Palestine but they would never talk about it.
They did before with the volga germans
@@Ronald98probably because it's not really relevant at the moment.
@@Ronald98The Great War channel did actually cover the removal of Palestinian civilians back in 2021. Their video suddenly got a lot of traction after recent events.
As a Filipino I am very excited for the next two episodes
I had never heard of Stilwell before this series. It seems he prepared the way for the defeat of Cheng Kai Check by the Communists. If so, he made one of if not THE most serious strategic blunders in this war.
I can recommend Rana Mitter's The Forgotten Ally: China's War Against Japan 1937-45 if you want to read some more about the relationship between Stilwell and Chiang (or Jiang Jieshi, as he is known in Chinese). Stilwell didn't cause the KMT to lose, but he certainly didn't help either. At least, according to Rana Mitter.
The Stilwell road still exists in my state, there are monuments marking the deaths of thousands of allied(including chinese) soldiers and workers who constructed it , there is a war memorial at Jairampur which also has the tomb of a chinese colonel.
@@dabfan6924it is a very pro stilwell book. Generally well researched, but she starts from the premise that Stilwell was a better general than any of his Chinese counterparts from the moment he landed in 1942.
When Chiang tells him shortly after their first meeting that he should be careful with the 5th and 6th armies in Burma because they are some of China's best, Stilwell describes his strategy as nonsense. Tuchman tells this story as if it reflects well on Stilwell.
It doesn't. Chiang and the Chinese have been fighting Japan for 4.5 years at this point. They know under what circumstances Chinese troops can be expected to fight Japanese troops and win. In March of 1942, the only allied troops to have won against Japan after pearl harbor are the Chinese at third Changsha in January.
Stilwell at this point has observed Chinese troops as a military attaché, but never in combat and he himself hasn't held a combat command since WW1.
Tuchman just takes it as a given and assumes her readers will too that Stilwell knew more about how to use Chinese troops to fight Japan than any of the Chinese generals... Who had been doing it for half a decade.
Stilwell's plan for the defense of Burma gets 25,000 Chinese troops killed... 3 months after he wrote that Chiang doesn't know what he's doing.
It is worth reading but always ask yourself at various points why Stilwell was always so sure he knew better than the Chinese and why Tucuman never asks why he should be listened to.
Bill Slim, by contrast, took one of the Chinese generals aside right after he took command in 1942 and asked how Chinese troops had won some of their few victories.
@@dabfan6924That book has been criticised in more recent times; Tuchman was not a historian and she took Stilwell's words without questioning any of it.
@@dabfan6924 While she may have received a Pulitzer at the time it is in no way a defence if deficiencies are found later. Furthermore, Guns of August was influential as a popular book, not as a factually rigorous one. Even at a time it was criticised for its flaws.
While historians and journalists may be under attack these days, that has nothing to do with criticising those in the past for the flaws of their publications.
Finally, the fact that there was a public demand for information about China meant if anything that any work published should have been better scrutinized to prevent misconceptions from forming.
It is funny, as a Serbian, to hear indey try to ponouce Yougoslavian city names, but he does it better than any american I have ever met!
Doesn't he live in Berlin and had something to do with grammar/libraries?
@@DutchGuyMike He lives in Stockholm.
Months of talking about Przemyśl during the Great war have trained him well.
Language can be a tricky terrain! Thanks for watching.
It was unfortunate for the German military that Hitler rarely permitted a withdrawal. There was one simple and very obvious lesson that he never seemed to learn: when you lose land, the land is still there for the retaking; but when you lose soldiers, they are gone forever.
Preventing Army Group North from getting trapped is one of those times where they could have saved a complete failure. However, shortening the line and reducing Soviet casualties only helps the Soviets so it might not have done much. Losing land assumes in those cases that you will be able to retake the land, and that you have not simply lost it.
One must recall that Hitler’s stance on retreats was shaped by his decision to not allow any retreat during the Soviet winter counteroffensive of 1941. Which in that one situation, was in fact, the correct order. The problem is that Hitler let his decisions not to give up any ground the rest of the war be influenced by the one time he was actually right, years before, in a different situation.
@@mjames70 Name some instances where retreat would have actually saved the situation. Hitler may not have been correct, but would any decision have been correct. Some suggest during Stalingrad and Dnieper that a solid withdrawal would have saved precious forces, but would any order have actually saved the situation.
@@jrus690 There wasn't any one retreat which would have saved the overall situation for the Germans but certainly vast amounts of men & material, whole field armies & even army groups, could have been saved & used to slow down the advance of the Soviets. The decision to leave 6th Army in Stalingrad when it was clear they were going to get cut off, is a prime example.
@@JackRabbitSlim I am not sure anything could have saved AGS, or 6th army at Stalingrad. Blau had been so heavy out of the gate, with a beefed up AGS (~>1.5 million troops, 2 Panzer Armies instead of 3/4 million and 1 Panzer Army), that I don't think the Germans thought the Russians could do such things. The Stalingrad campaign ended up turning into a big mess and at least 1/2- 3/4 million German losses, when the Soviets struck the wings and wiped them out. When Goerring was trying the out the airlift he proposed, all the while losing a bunch of transport planes, and Mannstein attempted a surgical strike the Soviets were already working on everything from Voronezh to the Caucasus, so all those German armies were all tied up.
It is unbelievable that US-Chinese cooperation has been so poor even though they are allies. The war against Japan would have been easier and faster if the US and China would have coordinated their war efforts better.
The US commanding general innthat theater needed to be a excellent diplomat, as well as a strategist. Stilwell was not that general, hence the "Vinegar"
Reading about Stilwell's successor, Albert wedermeyer, will make you sigh. He got on much better with Chiang and actually had put the Chinese army into good training and supply. The Chinese army had just started a massive counteroffensive when the war ended and the American trainers all left.
That's not what the "actual higher-ups" desired.
TF38 - 11 fleet and 6 light carriers.
Roughly 1200 combat aircraft.
All of high caliber.
Running around the Pacific, striking anywhere they feel with almost complete impunity.
What an incredible power.
☮
And with a supply chain to keep them topped off with fuel, munitions, provisions, and replacement aircraft and pilots.
The weak link was, ironically, not the equipment or the logistics, but the men. Not a shortage of skill, but simple exhaustion among the pilots. As we'll soon see.
Re the Japanese massive (in numbers) but piecemeal response to the raids on Formosa and other islands, their defeat was the reason why, a couple of weeks later, Ozawa's carrier group had very very few planes. Those planes included the air groups that would have been on the carriers. WRT TF38, every Task GROUP attacking each of the four base complexes was stronger than the Task FORCES the US had fielded just two years earlier in the Guadalcanal campaign. Not only had the USN grown in numbers, but they had grown in understanding of how to use those numbers.
Japan’s carrier force had been broken since Guadalcanal due to pilot shortages…
This week on Brazil's side: Barga and Gallicano are taken by the 8th and 7th Companies of the Third Division of the 6th Infantry Regiment, even with the 7th being pelted by enemy artillery and mortar fire coming from Mount Faeto. They'll consolidate those positions on the 11th even under artillery fire;
Mount Faeto itself will be occupied in the 13th after being abandoned by the Axis troops due to lack of ammunition. Also in the 13th the medals of War, Campaign and Battle of 1st and 2nd Classes are regulamented by a decree, and the first two brazilian POWs are captured by the germans: the telephone operators Guilherme André de Morais and João Lopes. The latter will manage to escape and go back to brazilian lines;
The week ends with the return of some batallions to the command of the brazilian general Euclides Zenóbio da Costa, and with the E4 of the Fifth Army reporting that if the diminishing ammo supply keeps going, they'll have to set up a defensive position and halt any offensives until the 10th of November.
Cue up some Sabaton “Smoking Snakes”
@@jmullner76 bit of a spoiler, but next week will be when the FEB will create the badge that'll get them the nickname 'Smoking Snakes'
Being an American, I am always surprised by the goings on at the eastern front. Hats off to the Russian army for handling such a huge front from the Baltics now down into Serbia. Time Ghost is phenomenal! They shed light on so many facets of this war that our "public education" did not provide. Thanks Indy and Crew!
Soviet* army, the Russians like to point to their 20million+ casualties against nazism to justify their modern facism even tho millions of their casualties were Ukrainians, Belarussians, Tuvans etc. The only Russian army that called themselves that fought with the Germans.
Soviet (Red) Army, not the Russian army. Though Russians did make up the majority of the army.
The Eastern Front was indeed a very significant part of the war, love to hear your enjoying it!
Remember though, it was the Red army. Thank you for watching!
Russians made up the majority of the Red Army as much as the Americans made up the majority of the Allies armies. Which is to say, it was a truly multinational army.
@darthcalanil5333 I think you meant to say that outside of the Soviet Army the United States had the largest army amongst the allies as the Soviet Union is part of the allies.
It is interesting to think that just over a year ago the Germans were at the volga but now they are at the danube
Well, rather 22 months ago (or 19 if one really counts starving 6th army and divisions of the 4th panzer dying around Stalingrad as "the Germans"). Probably way too many for dozens million surviving Soviet, Polish or Yougoslaves they looked, and acted upon as "subhuman".
From Vistula to Volga and back again in 3 years :)
How the tides of war shift. Thanks for watching.
A rather peculiar sidenote this week on October 8 1944 is that Project Pigeon (or later Project Orcon) will be cancelled by the United States Navy (USN). This was the University of Minnesota professor B. F. Skinner's attempt to design missiles that would be piloted by pigeons. He felt that even if the project was a success, people would not take this project seriously.
One of the more unusual experiments of the war, it was revived in 1948 but was again shelved due to the reliability of electronic guidance systems. Thanks for sharing!
Mayhaps a genius idea ahead of its time, but B.F Skinner's revenge would be just if late. I remember the homing pigeon being a treat in Worms 🤙
Goes well with another equally odd WW2 project x-ray, strapping timed incendiary devices to bats in order to set japanese cities on fire....the war had all manner of strange ideas.
Didnt that one get shelved because the bats got free and went into hibernation underneath the fuel tanks at the depot they were training at? @@morteforte7033
@@WorldWarTwo WOW!
The honour of the navy will remain intact. The navy itself...not so much.
Just like that SpongeBob meme
“We did it Patrick! We saved the Navy’s honor!”
The honor of the navy will be at the bottom of the Surigao Strait and Leyte Gulf.
I salute you sir, hilarious 😂
The IJN was already dead after Philippine Sea. Leyte Gulf was just the mop up of a now powerless fleet.
And to think that two years ago we were in North Africa preparing for El Alamein
It's truly incredible how rapidly the landscapes have shifted, thanks for watching!
Closing in on the Battle Off Samar. Here's hoping Indy and co give it the coverage it deserves.
A scanned copy of the final action report of the Sammy B. can be found by googling DE-413/A16-3/(Z:bk) Samuel B. Roberts combined action report
From page 14:
"The crew were informed over the loud speaker system at the beginning of the action, of the Commanding Officer's estimate of the situation, that is, a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival could not be expected, during which time we would do what damage we could. In the face of this knowledge the men zealously manned their stations wherever they might be, and fought and worked with such calmness, courage, and efficiency that no higher honor could be conceived than to command such a group of men."
This divvying up of Europe at the October meeting was done behind Roosevelt’s back. It led FDR to distance himself from Churchill on Malta on the way to Yalta three months later. This tension took center stage at Yalta, but at the final moment Churchill pulled FDR’s chestnuts from the fire by pressing Stalin to accept the US proposals on the UN. The Moscow meeting was a low moment in Churchill’s amazing career. See S.M. Plokhy “Yalta: The Price of Peace”
Churchill, at his core, was still an imperialist.
The "honor" of the Japanese Navy being preserved by the proposed plan to oppose the imminent Phillipines invasion had to do with the heart of the Japanese Navy, particularly the two Yamato class BBs, had not seen battle because of the changes brought on to naval strategy by CVs becoming the preeminent capital ship. The IJN did not have much hope in the success of the operation, they more wanted the fleet to be seen as going down swinging rather than being largely useless in the actual fighting.
True, but then getting BTFO by a handful of destroyers? They would have done a better job of perserving their honor by just scuttling the fleet and calling it a day.
@Raskolnikov70 Kurita's forces got mauled by a portionTF 38's air groups the day before, losing Musashi and a considerable part of their cruiser support to damage and escorting the cripples back to base.
Interesting fact: Erwin Rommel told his son Manfred that he shouldn't follow a career in the military. So Manfred became a politician instead!
I believe Manfred's father would have been very proud of him. He was a shining example of what a political leader should be.
Manfred Rommel was a Flakhelfer at age 14 - there were boys that age serving in Luftwaffe anti-aircraft crews.
A frontline from the Aegean to Estonia. Truly fascinating period of history.
You didn't mention the annexation of Tanna tuva by the Soviets.
Oh man.. Tanna tuva joining the Soviet union. I can only imagine the intensity of the axis leaders fright.
Oh no, here comes the Soviet Yak Cavalry Corps......
@@RobCamp-rmc_0 Throat singing!
Wonderfully thorough. Your narrative gives a context done so well nowhere else. Thank you
Another great video. Thanks Indie and team!
The best channel on this platform.
Thank you very much for the kind comment!
Great episode ... thanks for posting.
Thank you for watching!
(From the ending of The Desert Fox: The Story of Rommel)
During that last short ride, what may Rommel's thoughts have been? Were they bitter? That he had learned too slowly and struck too late? Or did they go back to the desert? Where his military genius had first electrified the world? In any case, his life and fate have best been summed up, ironically enough, in the words of Nazi Germany's sternest enemy, the honorable Winston Churchill;
"His ardour and daring inflicted grievous disasters upon us, but he deserves the salute which I made him - in the House of Commons in January 1942. He also deserves our respect because, although a loyal German soldier, he came to hate Hitler and all his works, and took part in the conspiracy of 1944 to rescue Germany by displacing the maniac and tyrant. For this, he paid the forfeit of his life. In the sombre wars of modern democracy, there is little place for chivalry..."
From what i have learned, he was actually kinda admired by the British to a degree for fighting honorably in the Desert. Montgomery actually took One of Rommels horses back to Britain and named it After Rommel.
It all boils down to how big of a Nazi monster you were. Rommel gladly took up his place in the Nazi army, so he is no hero in any way.
A wonderful historical coverage episode..thanks
Thank you for watching!
Great presentation.
This week may be a good week to watch the second half of Episode 7 *Peleliu Hills* of the 2010 television miniseries *The Pacific* , with the fighting at Peleliu's Bloody Nose Ridge by Eugene Sledge and the 5th Marines Regiment being shown during the Battle of Peleliu. The death of Captain Andrew "Ack-Ack" Haldane by a Japanese sniper while he was assessing the area of Hill 140 is also shown.
I watched The Pacific again this summer and I honestly have to say I thought it had withstood the test of time great. Back when it aired I compared it to Band of Brothers too much but it's not the same and is a really good series. The cruelty of the fighting is a far more prevalent theme in The Pacific that it is in BoB.
I know tonight I watch multiple episodes of baa baa black sheep,,,
A few years ago I happened to be at a Gun Show here in the Dallas-Ft Worth Area. There was an older gentelman trying to see a book that he wrote about War in the Pacific where he served as a Marine. I talked to him. I bought his hard back book and he signed it. When I shook hands he was a very strong man although he was over 90 years old. His name was R.V Burgin also known as Burgie in "The Pacific" and he most definitely fought at Peleliu. He said that is was a battle that didn't need to be fought. It chewed up the 1rst Marine Division badly.
Thanks for the recommendation, and thank you for watching!
Thank you for this episode
Thank you for making me the member of the week! Shout-out to my late Uncle Carlo who was a Tank Commander under Patton.
I Agree! This was exceptional!
On October 14, the USS Belle Grove, having taken on stores and fuel at Seeadler Harbor, set sail for the Philippines. She will join the massive force headed for Leyte Gulf. My Dad, Lt. Commander Ralph A. Alden, is the chief gunnery officer on board. Rest in heavenly peace, Dad.
wow, these late war episodes are massively long, but much appreciated!
Brilliantly narrated.
A quality look back if you will....well done guys.
I love every Saturday's episode. Keep it coming. --- Rommel gone... That puts things in perspective.
I never liked Rommel, but I must admit his letters to his wife were endearing. I also understand that only in 1944 Gen Blaskowitz convinced him of the truth of the accusations of widespread Nazi crimes against humanity. So, I was kinda shocked to learn how he died.
Why you never liked Rommel for?
@@cpj93070 He was invaliding other countries bringing death, suffering and all possible misery. He was following Hitler until he was wining. He never felt any discomfort. He turned against Hitler when Germany started to lose the war. Perhaps he is somebody's hero, but not mine.
@@gregski4130 What i mean he was a dam sight better General and person as some of the Evil scum that was in the Wehrmacht anyway.
Great work.
I'm noticing these episodes are getting longer and longer..
This is Awesome 👍
There is so much to cover as of late, thank you very much for watching!
Inside my head I have determined that every time Indy is on the phone he is talking to The Doctor in the TARDIS.
Thanks indy and crew
Thank you.
I hope. When it comes time, Indi will talk about Taffy 3 and The Battle off Samar.
Well, before that, he has to cover the actual landings that Taffy 3 was meant to protect. So, that will be covered two weeks from now.
Another great episode and really in depth
Thanks for watching!
You can say he was Schörrounded.
...I'll see myself out now
Hi Indy
Another thrilling week.
Lots of information and rommel died.
Heard about him in your old videos.
Thanks for the video.
Interesting episode from Indy ,and how the times are ever increased over the years .I use to be able to field the 15=16 minute episodes early on ,though the 25 minutes ones ,I have to get back to them ,so much going on since the 44 Bagration Campaign ...So much !. Its so extensive and the fronts so massive .I have to dig out Paul Carrell's book ''Scorched Earth ''the second part of the War from 43-44 to get the detait down .Indy has done a great job !. I like following the 20th Mountain Army last days before they start to retreat into Lapland and Mein Gott the Reindeer !!! . Hungary is the only Axis partner left after 44 ? Yes quite a year .I liked the atory about Aachen ,the hoime place of Charlemagne and the Germans importance ,after Jena ,due to Napoleon victory in 1806 the Royal Holy Roman Empire went into the dustbins of History as a aficionado of the Medieval Period ,always held my interest .Well done ,in how its importance in 44 to the Germans who were part of the Empire.
Re: The bombing of Yugoslavia, my grandmother was actually in the city at the time as a young girl, and she remembers the Allied bombing of the city as being a whole lot more intense than the initial German one, the Germans practically rolled into the city originally. Her place was two streets away from the end of a section that the Allies carpet-bombed, and luckily she escaped any direct hit, only experiencing that close call and a power station down the block being hit. She was young, but somehow despite the Nazi requisitions and harsh rationing, her mother and her made it through the war unharmed. Still alive as of this date, a grand 96 years old and while she has trouble walking, mentally it's like she hasn't aged since I was a kid.
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Indy's deliveries are always excellent, but the segment on Rommel at the end was especially good, as I was hoping it would be.
One thing I find fascinating about Operation Market Garden a couple weeks removed from it's events here on this channel is how little of it's failure has played in the bigger picture of the liberation of Europe, despite popular post war opinion seemingly making it out to be an abject failure for the Allies that crippled their war effort for months.
In reality we still see the Allies making considerable gains week by week across all fronts, the German army in complete disarray only able to provide occasional stiff resistance that buys a handful of hours or days at best.
Knowing what is ahead I feel like the coming hardh winter weather is what truly impacted the pace of the Allied offensive in Europe.
I think Market Garden's failure was overhyped. They had numerous goals in that operation, which included a very ambitious target, and it was only that ambitious target that was not met, they still achieved a number of other objectives and pushed further in the Netherlands. Considering how many other operations in the war (on all sides) resulted in disaster, or stalemate or retreat, Market Garden only making partial gains means it did better than most.
Think about that for a minute: "......11 fleet carriers...." on a raid. How could the Japanese not have understood America's industrial capacity?
Hungary's preliminary armistice with the UN nations was already signed on 11 Oct, by their delegation in Moscow. The plan was to announce this right then, but a few more days went by, while the Germans (and their Hungarian allies, the Arrow Cross Party) prepared for a hostile takeover. The commanders of 1st and 2nd Armies were with Horthy, while 3rd Army was excluded, as its commander was strongly pro-German (and could not be replaced). Commander of I Corps (Budapest) was actually kidnapped by the Gestapo, while Horthy stuck to his original intention of announcing Hungary's exit from the war to the Germans, before announcing it publicly, over the radio.
On 15 October, more events would follow, these will most likely be detailed in the next episode - good job by the way, as always :)
Don't forget about submarines Darter and Dace when talking about the upcoming Philippines Campaign. Can't forget about the Filipino Resistance either.
still working on catching up, making great progress
one of my favorite parts of this series is getting to dive deeper into the figures, the military leaders and such since most education only focused on the biggest pictures.
all these years of erwin rommel leading german forces and he's gone just like that, crazy
I enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up
21:04 - Aachen main train station. I have sometimes used it, most recently in 2019 when I travelled from Verviers in eastern Belgium to the city. At this point in the timeline, at least one, perhaps two, US Army replacement depots were being set up in Verviers. Presumably to funnel troops into the Aachen fighting and perhaps elsewhere.
21:29 - "West German Border Newspaper" - probably the, or at least a, local newspaper from the period.
Interestingly, the Rubicon had only been identified as the Rubicon about 1-2 decades earlier. It had been forgotten to history precisely which river it was, but during the fascist era (in which, perhaps not incidentally, the Italian government was obsessed with the Roman Empire) historians worked out with a high degree of confidence which river it was, and gave it its old name again.
Rommel: I leave you to find peace. I had a heck of a ride, but somebody better end the fighting because two world wars in one lifetime is two too many.
It all boils down to how big of a Nazi monster you were. Rommel gladly took up his place in the Nazi army, so he is no hero in any way.
This week, my very far relative crosses the Daugava and into Riga.
He took part in the Winter War as a tank driver. On the last day of that war, his tank was hit into the observation slit, destroying one of his eyes and severely impairing the other - he turned blind in the years thereafter. But this made him handicapped as the German invasion began, and soon he was under the occupation.
In the late 1943, as the Pskov area was liberated, he was conscripted by the red army into the engineering unit. This week, his unit was to build a pontoon bridge over the Daugava, which is up to 600m wide here. As they reach on the other bank, they discover that the territory is still controlled by the Germans. But the Germans already have the order to retreat, so they don't engage, and that's how he lives to tell the story.
Also this week, an unrelated story from the Western Front, as the allies reach Aachen.
The Aachen chapel has housed the throne of Charlemagne, which, in turn, was made of the marble plates taken from the paving of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. In particular, it features a board for game played by the church guards. During the war, it was decided that such a relic is to be protected, and they came up with a bright idea to cover the throne with asphalt. Unfortunately, the bitumen from the asphalt found its way into the cracks of the marble, forever staining the throne.
I am so excited for the coming Leyte Gulf coverage...
Before that show, I didn't knew about stilwell and chiang shenanigan, also glad to see you didn't went rommel myth on his participation in the 20th july plot because it seems quite debated.
I really love the series and every week I’m eager to see a new episode!
You just need some lessons in Italian geography names
pronunciation 😂
I do I do.
It's incredible how palpable the change is. Things are moving so fast. I feel sad as it feels like we are nearly out of ww2 content, I can only imagine the anxieties and excitement of those living through a war they could only imagine being nearly over.
Absolutely, the whirlwind pace of events during this period is both fascinating and overwhelming. Thank you for watching.
"It's utterly impossible for me to build my life on a foundation of chaos, suffering, and death. I see the world being slowly transformed into a wilderness; I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too. I feel the sufferings of millions. And yet, when I look up at the sky, I somehow feel that everything will change for the better, that this cruelty will end, that peace and tranquility will return once more."
-- Anne Frank, diary entry of July 14, 1944.
At the end of the war it would be cool if we got a special video showing the map movements from the start of the war until it's end.
That kind of video would bring in MILLIONS of views I think.
Really you could split it into multiple videos and get tons of views from each.
1.) Do a Eastern front video from Barbarossa, the initial insane defeats, the hold and counter attacks until the fall of Berlin.
2.) A Western Allied video that shows the fall of France, North Africa, the deteats if Africa, the Americans coming in and the counter attacks, Sicily into Italy and then we end it with D-Day into the fall of Germany.
3.) And then lastly we have the Pacific war. The initial defeats (such a pattern), the navel units moving around, the naval battles, the counter attacks in India, New Guinea, Guadalcanal, the island hoping counter attacks, China and the overall movements from the defeats, to the counter attacks, the USSR moving in and the final major battles in the Pacific in Iwo Jima and Okinawa and then the explosive end to the largest and most deadly war in human history.
4.) If you wanted, you could split that up even more. But really, the maps you guys have made and the movement of the units is so awesome. Having 1 final or multiple final videos showing the movements from the start of the war until the end would be so amazing. It would sort of be like what the great Estory channel does but in all due respect it would look better from your channel. The maps you guys have created are just quite simply better.
Then a dedication at the end of the videos to both the people who fought and died in the most just and important war in human history and a hope/prayer that a new war between the major powers of the world never has to happen again.
As much as people want to attack the US in modern society, the US push for the creation of the UN, the creation of the nuclear weapons, remaining involved in international affairs and pushing for the expansion of freedom, democracy and capitalism has led to BY FAR the longest period and most enduring period of major peace in human history and the most prosperous time to be alive in human history as well. Yes, there have still been wars and yes there are still people suffering in poverty. But the number of wars per year after WW2 compared to before WW2 is insane how much lower it is. The number of deaths is also insane in how much lower they are in a per capita bases. Even if you take the high count (terrible way to record such stats) in all the wars after WW2 they still pale in comparison to the WW2 and before period. And the rate at which GDP has grown in each nation as the American push for capitalism expands from country to country is just undeniable at this point that capitalism (lightly monitored by the government) is the long term answer for ending poverty in the world.
The Pax-Americana is REAL.
look up eastory, I believe he's the one doing the maps and he's got exactly those videos on his channel
Best content on CZcams
Thank you very much and thanks for watching!
Cavalcade; that’s a good one! Not quite avalanche, not quite cascade. But Cavalcade, the word of the day.
Sounds like a cavalry, military manoeuvre. A cascading cavalry advance, like an echelon attacking engagement.
I'm going a little bit in the future, but home town of my (recently deceased) grandfather - Smederevo is liberated on 16th of October. He was 9 at that time.
He used to talk how everything happened so fast. One day Nazi soldiers just started packing and next morning barracks on Carina (Царина) were empty - so, naturally, looting started. There is still German military bed somewhere in the attic that he personally rolled in home. 😁
Anyway, same night first Red army soldiers started entering the outskirts. Only thing they asked is: "Belgrad? Berlin?" And locals just pointed at the north-west. Yugoslavian partisans didn't enter for 2-3 more days!
One of the main streets in Smederevo is still called: 16th October street. It continues from one small part of street in the city centre, that is called 17th October street - the day city is liberated in the WWI.
Third part of the same street (that is leaving the city) is called "Crvene Armije (Црвене Армије)" - it means Red Army street... Smederevo didn't forget who liberated it.
P.S. Grandpa used to say that Alied bombing on Serbia (not Yugoslavia) 1944 was way worse that Nazi one 1941. "That was Churchill's punishment for Yugoslavian (predominantly Serbian) leaning to Communist side" he used to say, always followed by:"That I will never forget or forgive (to them)!"
He was one of the last contemporaries of that war in Smederevo, he died on 27th September this year, few months before his 89th birthday. 🥺
Нека му је лака земља и Бог душу да му прости!
Petrograd is todays Zrenjanin .. it changed name in 1946 ..
Nice touch that you kept old city name for this series .
Congratulations Indy! You pronounced Luostari (finnish for Monastery) absolutely correctly while still sounding like an alien or AI. :)
Wow, Indy told name of my little hometown
Somebody is fullfilling his promise to return next week.
My great grandfather was in charge of signals during the fighting for Riga. Stayed in Riga after the war and after discharge and managed civilian communications in the city.
This is why my grandfather, mom, and myself were born in Riga, not St. Petersburg.
Thank you for sharing and thanks for watching.
Stillwell--so focused on avenging his humiliating defeat in Burma in 1942 that he ignored Operation Ichigo and gave Japan its last major land victory of the Second Sino-Japanese War.
They liked the Kuban pocket so much they did it again
Indy speaking about battles in Serbia, am I watching the Great War week by week again?
Battle of Debrecen was the 2nd largest tank battle in the WW2. Somehow missed this.
1:01 The Pacific map should show the Allies (US Marines) occupying more of Western New Britain - since March 1944.
It should show the Japanese still in control of Truk, the Carolines and Nauru etc.
At 16:21 TF 38 didn't have escort carriers. Those were Independence class CVL built on cruiser hulls. CVE were built on merchant ship hulls and were only used for anti submarine and ground support missions.
With the American experience of handling German submarines in the Atlantic the Japanese chances around the Philippines don’t look good. Fifty subs and counting doesn’t look good.
Excellent reporting as usual.
I love your videos. I am waiting for a transplant and have many other health problems. This means I have LOTS of spare time. I read about warfare constantly and watch your videos constantly. Thank you for helping pass the time.
We are touched to provide some comfort as you await, and best wishes for your transplant!
@@WorldWarTwo Thank you so much.
That thumbnail photo was taken sometime after 1977 as Bagramyan received his second Hero Of The Soviet Union medal in December of that year, 32 years after The Great Patriotic War ended and 22 years after Bagramyan was promoted to Marshal Of The Soviet Union
Guys, you have made a slight mistake in the name of one Latvian city. You have written Oger, but it is OGRE (ponounced as written [ogre])
As always, video is very informative and useful
I was bummed. I wanted more on the battle in northern Europe. I do not want to wait until next week.
Well, you know what they say. It's not all about Western Europe. If anything, this world war sure feels more significant in the Eastern front, China and the Pacific.
What a shame.
@@extrahistory8956 The western front is practically a sideshow this week compared to everything else going on in the world. It gets more attention in western countries like the US and UK for obvious reasons, because that's where their armies were fighting. But the Eastern front has always been the bigger battle.
@@extrahistory8956 True, but my father fought in the European theater.
@@Raskolnikov70 That was the problem from the cold war; in the US you only heard about the US military achievements. Decades later you read When Titans Clashed and you find out Hitler's butt was kicked on the eastern front. Even now, thirty years after the cold war ended, you read it and feel nothing for either the Wehrmacht nor the Red Army. The only people you really hate are the SS, for all the reasons.
Was that Monte delle Formiche I heard being nominated? In Italian, the 'che' ending has a hard c like the k in kettle.
As The Clash later sang, "Stillwell stsy or Stilwell go?"
03:55 Guy Sajer in "Soldat oublié" book makes whole chapitre about desperate défense de Memel (Klajpeda) by Grossdeutschland Division, btw how small seems GD division square on thé stratégique level Map...
"This never works well way down the line."
Well with the Desert Fox gone, it's going to be all up to Steiner!🙂😉
My boi about to make his BIG break just wait!