Title might sound intimidating. But don't worry, this video isn't to bash on SMG4, nor is it an actual rant video. Take it as a documentary, analysing the factors for the current state of SMG4, and it's relation with the fans of how they feel about the show. Oh, and also, please don't comment "If you don't like the show don't watch it". Again, I'm not here to bash on SMG4.
I also want to make another correction here: Ignore the part where I said SMG4 is used "to inspire them to make better shows for their main channel of GLITCH productions". Not very sure why I said that. I in fact, very much believe that SMG4 is a wonderful show with wonderful ideas, and the workers among the show very much do care about the show.
The problem is not SMG4, it’s the fandom. Luke has been trying to make the fandom happy by adding more and more changes, while other people hate on him saying his old videos were better, we have to understand that CZcams is a bit complicated nowadays, making it difficult to upload, and having 2 channels working at the same time is hard work, so we can’t just expect it to get better in 1 second, SMG4 has good arcs and writing, the problem is how other view it and take it. But everyone has their own opinion right? So we can’t just go and judge hard work.
Yeah, he really should take a temporary trial break from listening to the fans and see what happens? If the consequences are harmless, then fuck the fandom altogether and let him do whatever he wants. If they are harmful, then he probably should select a specific group of fans to support, where their interests are all similar and stuff and the pruned fanbase generally gets along together much more easily. SMG4 will inevitably be accused of betrayal in some way to many anyway, no matter how much he tries to avoid such a label.
I follow smg4 since 2017 and unlike some I am extremely proud of its evolution and I like its content more and more ❤ Unfortunately life is unfair and some do not want to approve of this development His haters ruin everything and are everywhere we can't get rid of them just ignore them Smg4 is perfect, but its fandom is not and it disappoints me and makes me sad
The lack of continuity is indeed a big flaw in their writing, but I still wouldn't call the show "bad". The mini-arcs were a blast to watch, and the lack of continuity did not severely impact my views on them. Moreover, it is not something unfixable, because they gave us some hints about Mr. Puzzles' potential return, so if he does return they have a big opportunity to connect some plot points, and by doing so give actual continuity to the saga (they left off a lot of questions unanswered in the Puzzlevision movie, for example his connection to the showgrounds, or the boarded up door, so they can potentially use them). I still have hope for the series, and I believe they can do something great with it (if they actually try of course). I guess only time will show, but I will still stay optimistic
Tbh, this series should've ended after War of the Fat Italians 2022. Even if there were still some good ones here and there like that Content Farm parody. Not saying the creators should abandon the show and focus on their GLITCH content. But they should really do a spinoff for their show to keep them a float, like they did with Meta Runner and Sunset Paradise.
Thanks for pointing that out: I think what I was meant to say, is that the entire GLITCH team as a whole can look onto the SMG4 channel and take ideas from it.
@@TheAwsumMegario I see what you’re trying to say, but I don't think that excuses the writers on SMG4 to put less effort into their stories than the writers over at Glitch.
“AND IF I CAN MAKE YOU ENTERTAINING I CAN DO ANYTHING “ sincerely, mr puzzles was doing a more entertaining show than smg4 lol poor guy got crushed, so much wasted potencial
As someone who had quitted SMG4 and the majority of the fandom by 2024 because of how everything is a huge mess, I've managed to use my ignoring braincells to actually watched the video. The first thing I want to note is that the argument "SMG4 is being more disliked by fans" by itself is flawed. How many people actually dislike SMG4, and how many percentage do they take up in the entire fandom? We can't truly know for sure, because silent viewers and lurkers exist besides commenters and content creators. This also applies to r/SMG4: it's thought that it's full of critics, but it's quite likely that people holding such views haven't accounted for the subreddit lurkers, and we don't know how many of them like or dislike the show. Secondly, SMG4 actually listens (or is capable of listening) to criticisms, which is evident by the re-redesigning announcement back in early 2023. But despite so, I suspect that they only heed them when there are lots of complaints about a particular part of the show; otherwise, they're ignored because of many factors: will they have time for them, is it worth spending a long time to make the show a bit more appealing, etc. Therefore, I believe that critics have little chance to make a considerable impact. Other than those, I agree with the rest of your video.
I think that there is a thing that people really miss about the old smg4 is the low budget side. Think for a moment what the old videos of smg4 looked like. Just sm64 and occasionally gmod gameplay (directly in the game for gmod) green screned in sm64 or gmod Map, and the Characters had outside of stock voices and memes sounds no voice actors. And all of this made smg4's old videos more crazy and nonsensical at eyes ans ear, and i don't mind the abondense of oc's (if they are correctly used) and story arcs, the Real problem of smg4 at the eyes of a lot of people is that now smg4 dosen't look like a stupid show with just a immature kid running it, but now is pretty high quality and sometimes look like it could be in an Glitch serie (btw i don't mind that)
@@thesonichero2619 Yeah. The Mario 64 usage doesn't inherently mean low-quality or a budget look, it's just a specific style that was iconic to the series (as SMG4 was THE most popular series in that style, there were many by different people before and after him but he's the one that blew up). There are many examples of EXTREMELY HIGH quality Mario 64 machinima that looks gorgeous (obvious example being MJacobBarker but there's plenty of other examples too) and super sleek and clean.
About the puzzlevision saga.. If you look back at it's gotta be perfect, notice the tv on 4's screen when offered the "Magical Keyboard", Mr puzzles has been a problem to the group since smg4 was going insane. It's clear to see it's not just an idea that popped into their head just recently, Mr puzzles is also seen near the end of WOTFI 2023. (Not trying to change your opinion on the series btw.)
bro why can't the writing issues just be a mix of poor writing and laziness (particularly concerning lore and character consistency), why must there be some grand reason behind it like how 'SMG4 is a testing grounds for creating higher quality shows and ideas for GLITCH'. Plus, the SMG4 writing team is clearly separated from GLITCH in terms of the work. Goose, Liam and that guy behind the gaslight district lead and write the GLITCH shows, and seem to have nothing to do with the SMG4 team (they just operate within the same company). I agree with the more minor critiques you have, such as character and lore inconsistencies, but I think your main argument is very flawed imo. There are also some other issues with SMG4 which you don't mention that I think are pretty significant to the quality of the show, like forgotten plot points (i.e. Melony's manga artist career, Meggy's coach job and SMG3's rule over the internet graveyard) which harm consistency and world building/cohesiveness, as well as the serious character appearance problem the show has (Saiko, Melony, Kaizo, SMG1 & 2, Shroomy and many side characters are very underutilised).
Because there is a grand reason why the writing issues are there not just what everyone is saying. The lack of lore acknowledgement comes from the fact it would hop back into a shift of tone or would be out of place in a wacky parody moment which leads why arcs are so rushed or anticlimactic. Character inconsistent comes from the fact they want to focus on that joke it when it can be handled without sacrificing it. I'm not saying I agree with it just pointing it out there are deeper reasons then just laziness. I guess it could still be considered that but then it would mean something else
I'm just gonna copy-paste this here so I don't have to tell you to refer to the reply of the pinned comment, "I also want to make another correction here: Ignore the part where I said SMG4 is used "to inspire them to make better shows for their main channel of GLITCH productions". Not very sure why I said that. I in fact, very much believe that SMG4 is a wonderful show with wonderful ideas, and the workers among the show very much do care about the show."
Welp, it's been a good run, hasn't it? I'm glad I got the opportunity to join you on this adventure, and here's hoping to a bright new future! Good last video!
I personally think that people are so used to the old smg4 that their not used to a thing called "change". Smg4 wanted to go for something more modern and original. I personally love his videos and have been a fan for years now, and I love the changes. I think the episodes today are interesting and cool, even the animations, I also think that the arcs are very cool, even the songs in WOTFI are a bop, some people are just stuck in the past.
See i agree with him until the lawsuit arc but starting from the ITS GOTTA BE PERFECT and the whole puzzlevision saga i dont because their doing small writing cus the saga hasnt ended yet the puzzlevision movie was half of the saga because even in smg4's twitter there is one post saying "we will meet again" with the puzzlevision key chain indicating that hes not dead and the saga isnt over we gotta wait until the BIG movie which my guess is wotfi 2024
Yeah, I legit don't get it. With all of the evidence we have, the saga is very clearly NOT over and believing that it is, feels more and more like a misconception of the movie's ending than anything actually concrete. It just feels weird and absurd that this misconception is still prevalent, when they've made it so extremely clear through posts from the actual channel and from people working on it, that this saga AIN'T OVER.
Then that begs the question: what was the Puzzlevision movie for? Why make us ask all those questions during 2023 just to make nearly all of them irrelevant in Puzzlevision? You could truly not watch anything from 2023 and fully understand the Puzzlevision movie still. The fact all of 2023 is Puzzles making his own shows truly doesn't add anything and, like Megario says, is merely an idea dump. If Mr. Puzzles is a recurring villain, then expect more of these idea dump style movies that really don't tie to a villain and would easily stand on their own if you didn't know better.
@@fozzie_79 Considering that the saga ain't over and the ever increasing likelihood that the movie's ending was a false one, The Puzzlevision Movie is likely a turning point in the saga and what happens next would show that.
Yeah, ultimately having Mr. Puzzles be a Wotfi villain has its own set of problems. We've already got oversatuated with villains being defeated by Wotfis..... which to be honest really sucks. I think this whole problem is so heated because you have the Mr. Puzzles stans who are clinging onto the character like an idol, then you have those (like me) who already grew tired of the very idea becauae of how long SMG4 dragged this out. I feel like Mr. Puzzles returning is more of a corporate demand by Kevin because he has dollar signs in his eyes. Puzzlevision was ultimately a pointless movie that did nothing but flanderize the characters.
@SteveM7Nexus Then what comes next? Mr. Puzzles already tried to make a 5 star show and failed. Is he gonna do that again? Will he pull a CZcams Arc SMG3 and create his own Anti-Cast? Will he get real actors instead to get the 5 stars? At that point, you make all of the saga to this point irrelevant since he gains creative control of real life. Why use the objectively stupid cast at all? And no, his arrogance thinking he can do anything makes no sense if he has control of reality by the end anyway. Who cares how you get to 5 stars so long as you do? Puzzles preached how patience is stupid yet he chose the hardest path to success. I have yet to see any reason as to how this is actually a turning point. People say it is, yet there is no logical reason for it to be besides the fans wanting him back or, as I said, it is to create more idea dump movies rather than a cohesive story and universe.
4:06 Luke literally said that the entire puzzlevision thing was to test some new things out and have fun. The point of it was to be an idea dump. Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with that or anything wrong with the normal episodes either. It shouldn’t be a problem that they are changing the style of their videos.
1:43 The main reason why SMG4 doesn't listen to criticism is because of rant videos like MetalBlade5's, not only are his arguments really basic and popular talking points (in Nostalgia Egg's words) that have been said countless times by others, the guy is also just throwing baseless acusations against the Glitch crew, for example he acuses Lizzie Freeman of being racist when that is not true, but also spews out conspiraties about Luke and Kevin's relationship. All in all, this video is just full of bad faith criticism mixed with some unhiged lies, and given the attention this vid got, many ex-fans started to use this as their base for ranting on modern SMG4. And even when there are constructive criticism, most of them don't get enough attention, because most of them are made outside of CZcams, and when they are on CZcams, most of the ex-fans will go to vids like the MetalBlade5 one, because a good majority of them are 2014 fanboys that don't accept changes. Now don't get me wrong, I am able to differentiate the ex-fans that are fanboys of the 2014 era and that just want the show to get reversed back to how it was during that year (like Viclis and most of his fanbase), and the ones that actually want the show to improve with the ideas and concepts it has (like SMBD 12, CiblesYT, Yoshifan139 (a guy in the SMG4 wiki discuss group), or you Megario), but here's the thing, the former fanbase is incredibly toxic, and overshadows the latter fanbase, which leads to constructive criticism on CZcams not getting as much attention as they should. However, given how much attention some of your SMG4 related videos get, there's maybe a chance that if you make a constructive criticism video of SMG4, it could get enough attention to catch Glitch's eyes and make them listen to you, it already hapened with Dafawfulizer's video, so maybe you can repeat the story and hell, even become the Dabhdude of SMG4. But hey, that's just what I think, you can tell me your own tought on this.
I only started watching SMG4 right before WOTFI 2022, and I think people also like to criticize the series for SMG4 simply not being a recolor anymore. The only time recolors will appear now Is when another remastered64 video comes out. In other words, people will find the smallest things to criticize SMG4 with and make it seem like the show is the worst show to ever exist. Even if they're somehow right, I pretty sure there are worse shows out there.
@@Sonicrules36 Funny how we started watching SMG4 in the same timespan, I also began watching SMG4 in late 2022, more precisely in December of 2022, and I geniunely enjoyed the show. I agree that people overreact with the redesigns, and criticising SMG4 with the smallest things, that's exactly what purist do. There already however were people that complained about SMG4 in 2021, the most notorious one being MetalBlade5. My main problem with these criticism is that many of them come from nostalgia blinded 2014 era fanboys that grew up with this era and that think this year represents SMG4 as a whole. They don't want the show to improve, they just want to revert it back to how it was in 2014, where everyone were complete idiots, instead of being actual characters, and where the humor was overused, and just a load of random voice clips slapped onto repetitive nonsense. And the criticism that are not from these fanboys, are completelly overshadowed by the fanboys' criticism. Which means you get terrible to abysmal criticisms that are relevant, and good to great criticisms that are irrelevant.
@@THGMR-ox7sd I just made the comments more paragraphed, so maybe they'll be readable for you. I also agree with you, its really a shame that most of the criticism SMG4 get are in bad faith, and they're often garbage. And worst of all ? The worst criticism often get more attention than the good ones. So yeah, its really a depresing reality we live into.
I started watching it on 2018, and sincerely… it annoys me how other character don’t appear anymore .. like WHY MEGGY (I love meggy but for gods sake ) WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY CHARACTERS LEFT BEHIND, and the potencial wasted (mr puzzles 😭😭😭) is so huge
I haven't watched the video yet, but I wanted to give my two cents on something that personally bothers me about SMG4. Specifically how once Melony's "arc" with SMG0 and all that stuff was done, she was thrust into the background and hasn't really made any serious appearances since. She could've been a great help in so much stuff since then, but they never let her do anything since they wrote her to be so overpowered that having her even be around removes most of the tension from any kind of stressful situation the characters find themselves in. Idk, it bothers me. It's like they finished what they wanted to do with her and then went "Fuck you." and removed her from the show.
Respectfully, this entire video is just confusing me. While i see where you're coming from with how they dont do much with the past arcs using what luke said in the puzzle vision saga as proof hes using it for glitch and not listening to fans makes no sense as he said he expiremented in the channel over how his past videos felt more this way like the mario simulator. His team was happy over how they've pushed themselves in which we can also see regardless of quality he wants to take his team in a bigger creative direction to bring back those type of expiremental classic videos. He did not do this to use it for another channel not to mention smg4 team being completely different makes that statement sound weirder. smg4s, writing issues comes from the fact that it wants to tell stories while keeping comedy first in fact thats why the impact of majority of arcs get left behind until its needed. We already saw this with meggy and melony in the past yet i recall nothing but negativity on the fact they went on at least one more episode or movie to address their feelings over the fact it just didn't belong there. Smg4 has been listening just not the way fans want him to as well and its hard to do so when theres such a split fanbase and the ones that dont like arcs are still watching too.
I think smg4 is doing perfectly fine atm, I’ve been a fan since 2019-2020 and believe they’ve actually improved and still believe they will improve more and more
Plus I mean they do an episode a week which leaves little time to write so for the time they have they do some pretty good writing, I wanna see you write good scripting every week for a 10 minute episode and not make some mistakes before you criticize them
@@EDoty-mn6xy Yeah. You make an insanely valid point. From personal experience, writing can be a pain to get through along with the revisions and edits. Especially with such a small deadline.
@@TheRealNightFall666 In all honesty, I don't blame them. Having so much negative criticism/rants can be really annoying at times. Especially in this case with SMG4, where it does nothing to actually help and just festers more unnecessary hate. It's basically the result of having too much Negative Criticism and not enough Constructive Criticism (at least in terms of visibility).
For me personally, I don't like the newer SMG4 episodes is because they slowly began to use more screentime for G Mod than screentime for SM64 and I didn't really like the change and I drifted away pretty quickly.
I bellive that thinking it as a Serialized Show would never work. SMG4 is not a traditional show like, Meta Runner, Murder Drones or Digital Circus, with a set beginning and end. it is a YT Channel, that plains to go on indefinitively, world billding would only become a hindrance in the long run. This current "Idea Dump Era" sounds a lot more sutainable and realistic the weekly YT Channel that it is.
I like both contenr the modern and the old. In my opinion,their both good. Sometimes, i watch the old and sometimes i watch the modern and hes there is a huge difference between them but it shows how luke is trying to improve. Luke has grown up and he is not the same anymore. People change. As he grew more his humor changed. Yes he is not the same anymore but still he tries to make his fans happy and he DOES listen to the criticism like when he was getting hate for the new redesigns in early 2023.He changed it and made it much better. One problem is the fanbase of the community. It is slowly getting worse. They dont appreciate luke for what hes doing. Hes trying to improve but smg4 does lack some things and has overused characters but it isnt overall bad i like it. People can see how much his videos have changed and another thing i wanted to point out were the "Old" fans. I have seen a lot of them. The problem with them is that they go around smg4's videos or some comment that likes smg4 and just comment saying "Omggg! Modern smg4 sucks old better+no one cares+your opinion doesn't matter and luke sucks he isn't even funny anymore" i may agree that he is not as much funny as he was back in the day but nowadays he is focusing more on lore and storylines on his channels. (Will continue sorry if its big 😭)
I believe that they did bad writing on purpose. most of the bad writing came with the puzzlevision arc, in which Mr. Puzzles influenced the narrative by quite a bit, and his shows were hilariously bad on purpose.
"SMG4 doesn't listen to criticism." is a BS statement. The SMG4 hate began when Meggy was used occasionally. This resulted in a strong enough hate boner towards her that the "fan base" had to the point where Luke and Kevin felt the need to not include her in as many 2018 videos that she would've been perfect in. (I E Mario Battle Royale.) In general, the SMG4 sub reddit is the worst aspect of the channel. It's not criticism. It's b!tching. Also, you're putting words into Luke's mouth when you say that SMG4 is nothing more than a side project for Glitch. The Puzzle Vision story has been planned carefully since the beginning of 2023. The vague "SMG4 is poorly written.) critique isn't criticism. That's why Luke no longer listens to it.
Yeah. There's a definite difference between Constructive Criticism and Negative Criticism. The former is worded and spoken in such a way that actually helps (essentially being civil about it). The latter is basically overly negative rants that really do nothing to actually help. It's honestly just sad, cause anything that actually helps gets drowned out by overly negative rants and it barely (if at all) gets to the creators.
I see where the video is going, but i think the medium for SMG4 has changed too, Nintendo did a shadowban on most of GMOD assets. Now, we have nothing, so they have to move to other sources to provide with the videos.
What people don't understand is that SMG4 wants to raise in quality and be more original. They're not gonna stay the same forever. Things are gonna have to change.
I personaly think that smg4 took such a massive hit in 2022 that it's like season seven of spongebob it was so bad that it made people hate the show and it didn't really matter how good it was aftter that the lawsuit arc was stupid and dumb it bascly was the compleat opposite of modern and older smg4 i mean look at wofti 2021 and puzzlevision
I think he has improved, he has improved in animation dramatically, most people are mad because of the design chances for smg4 and 3, I genuinely love the new designs as they are original, smg4 saved me from my own fears so I’m eternally grateful for smg4’s decisions
Well the thing is people expect a lot out of CZcamsrs like him but the amount of effort he already put in his channel is incredible I been watching since he started his whole Mario videos my favorite videos were some of his old ones like “who let the chomp out” or “the grand Mario hotel” he has come a long way and still deserves more for his effort
I think SMG4 went from "funny mario and other characters getting in random predicaments" to "a group of characters and ideas being thrown around to entertain the Glitch team as they're resting after creating an amazing episode of TADC or Murder Drones", of course it's going to lack cohesion or "timbre".
I still have hope for his channel tho... but we just have to wait and see... btw was it intentional to make text fit the song perfectly in your first video?
The problem is that everyone wants a writing style similar to gnr back, when that's exactly what they're trying to run away from. Because they've changed for the better of their channel and for themselves. I wonder if they hate that older content with slurs and offensive shit, but just can't afford to delete it
The thing I don’t like about smg4 was he used to make funny skits back in the days now it’s just stories with just Mario if he wanted to do that it shouldn’t be Nintendo related
You do make a lot of good points, but I feel like the reason the shows been a bit all over the place, especially since western spaghetti and the it’s gotta be perfect arc, is because it’s building to something in the future… Mr. puzzles changed a LOT of the status quo in the show in a pretty drawn out amount of time, and his entire plan seemed to revolve around making random shows. Heck he even makes a point of quoting in his song about how stupid he finds the SMG4 show to be. So it’s likely that he may have screwed up a LOT of things, maybe even including the continuity of the show itself… which if that’s the case, that would’ve a pretty insane twist. Plus now that he’s made a return thanks to popular fan demand, (though I’m sure his return was planned well in advance), I feel all that’s happened is heavily building to something in the future… but I guess we shall find out what they have in store, and wether it will be good or not!
The only issue I have with SMG4, is that he doesn't really take a lot of risks/always relying on Mario. Why not make an episode with just the SMG4 original characters sometimes?
You saying them going their own way is wrong is just dumb. They are being themselves and it's a big step to ignore people saying mean things about them. This is honestly not a good idea to make a video about them being bad. Just saying.
I said that going their own way is "wrong" Wrong, with quotations. I'm not the one to judge SMG4's decision here - the quotations marks mean that some fans of SMG4 are angry at their decision. In fact, I might even make a video, talking about the POSITIVES of SMG4 going their own way.
I mean I kinda took inspiration from SMG4 to make my series(Don’t have GMOD or know how to use it so I’m using Gacha Life) so that’s kinda like making an SMG4-like show
SMG4 is not the problem nor it’s show poor. Your just not being creative and want to give up. Never up on something you work hard on. So give this series a chance and stop being so critical
9:21 It's me, I like that the PuzzleVision arc was laid back and all, Like, I'm glad that it didn't try to take itself too seriously, but I feel like you could still add character development, To me, it just feels like some of the characters are just sitting around waiting for something to happen, I think it's nice seeing SMG4 and his crew more happy and trying out new formats, I feel like you could still tell a simple story, but have it still have an impact on your channel
SMG4 is great. People just can’t deal with change and want not necessarily the show but their lives to stay the same. They also cling to nostalgia way too much.
So your saying that “SMG4 is a testing ground for Glitch”? Bruh no it is not, y’all are dense because both SMG4 and GLITCH are SEPARATE. Plus the creators of MD and TADC never take inspirations from the SMG4 show, it’s their own vision.
I'll admit it: I did not really word what I said in the video properly, but lemme reword it, SMG4 is a show, which is a ground for amazing ideas, which writers such as Luke and Kevin contribute to. Their creative ideas also take inspiration and ideas from shows like TADC. For example, the entire circus theme of SMG4 could be the writers taking inspiration from GLITCH.
Megario's right. SMG4 is a stupid and illogical show where the lore doesn't make any sense, and the creators and writers do it their way, not ours. The entirety of the SMG4 series is nothing but just entertainment, and Puzzlevision pretty much explains it all.
Theory:I believe the puzzle vision arc was trying to say that its complicated to have a good "rate" showing how mr puzzles coukd be the smg4 channel and the crew is the fanbase in somesort. :>
It's like the amazing world of gumball there's lore but more random stuff. Arcs used to randomly happen. Nothing is connected smg4 is still a great CZcamsr but nothing ever last forever. And when Meggy dies because that will 100 percent happen that will be the last video before smg4 is over.
Here's the thing though: SMG4 already set the standards in 2019, with the anime arc. Fans expected that good writing from the Anime Arc to be maintained for future arcs in SMG4, but it didn't. The storywriting got "worse".
Man I miss the old Smg4 ever since there redesigns it's just been horrible it's not funny anymore the old videos had me laughing my ass off still till this day has me laughing my ass off but now it's like stupid annoying and at sometimes even down right bad cringe
The first video I ever watched from SMG4 was “If Mario was in portal“ I watched it because I liked portal to that time and the mario franchise too…I never regretted watching it. I laughed so hard lol. These days the videos aren‘t any funny anymore but…..still good
No wonder 75% of TADC fandom hasn't watched SMG4, they'd die trying to understand anything!! I swear, we need to get r/smg4critisism more popular man!! And honestly, it's kinda almost like this entire puzzlevision saga was only to get all the remaining classic fans to quit the channel.
Isn't the show just supposed to be funny videos with Mario and other characters? I don't really care about bad writing, I just watch SMG4 as fun videos without thinking of it as a tv show with continuity.
I think I would give this a 50/50. Some points I don't agree with but I definitely respect that you're using constructive criticism, so here are my points: 1. SMG4 most likely doesn't listen to criticism because most of it is all the same. "Modern SMG4 fell off, old videos were better, the redesigns suck, the voice acting sucks". Surely he doesn't want to hear the fandom bitching about going back to old videos constantly. This is the same case with Vivziepop's haters with her two shows in the same universe, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, both criticisms constantly being "stop with the constant sex jokes and swearing every minute". The only difference is Vivzie responds negatively to criticism, while SMG4 doesn't and ignores it, but they've both grown tired of both their shows having the same criticism when they just want to do their own thing without people complaining about the same thing constantly without end. People change over time. We all have changed including SMG4. The reason people say "anyone miss old [nostalgic youtuber]?" is because they, like most do, don't want to grow up and stay in good old times. They refuse to accept that SMG4 is changing and evolving his content from just being Mario shitposts and having a fully fledged story while still keeping meme material in it, I'm fine with the changes but people need to know that if people want to do something different, they want to do something different and accept that. 2. I don't think the PuzzleVision arc was just an "idea dropbox". This entire arc has been developed all the way since "SMG4, Are you OK?" hence the perfection arc, only being a piece of the entire PuzzleVision saga. (Mr. Puzzles is responsible for sending 4 the demonic keyboard, leading to the destruction of Peach's castle and selling the Showgrounds to the crew.) Mr. Puzzles has constantly been behind nearly everything since early 2023, so if SMG4 had the idea for him THAT early, I don't think the PuzzleVision arc (in its entirety since IGBP and the PV shows and movie) has only been an idea dropbox. I'm pretty sure he was just talking about Mr. Puzzles's shows being the idea dropbox where the crew can give their creative ideas for parodies and such, just as we see with Mr. Puzzles's shows. These are the only 2 points I could make but I hope I could make it as clear and understandable as I could make it
I’m cringe and read the fanfics, they atlest have continuity from for example the IGBP event from head canons that probably at least make a bit a sense :/
I think you're right that the channel is for creative ideas, but it isn't for Glitch. It's because Luke and Kevin don't actually control Glitch anymore. They're not directing and writing the shows there. Liam does MD, Goose does TADC, and Nick is doing GD. Luke and Kevin only have SMG4 as their avenue now, and so they restructured the channel around that. It started by making the Lawsuit Arc to disassociate with the cosmology saga via redesigns, then IGBP preaches a message about how SMG4 doesn't need to listen to anyone besides himself to be great. All that matters is he loves what he's doing. Look at the channel now and it is a creative vessel rather than continuous. The fact Colin's arc idea was shot down because it related TOO CLOSELY to previous lore says it all. With the Puzzlevision movie, you truly don't need to watch anything in 2023 to understand it. Compare this to Revelations, which heavily requires watching the Genesis Arc in order to understand a lot of the things going on. IGBP and WS only get brief mentions in PV, and WOTFI 2023 isn't even mentioned at all. None of the character development actually matters because that doesn't matter. Doesn't help that they had new writers who didn't even work for the show until this year on Puzzlevision. Plus, they worked on a content farm previously, and now they are able to flex their creativity with the songs they have written and stuff like Clench. In the end, SMG4 is a show that has no real direction. It isn't as deep as they pretend it is. It is truly surface level stuff because they will not care to make it deeper. I find it funny how they redesign everything, too, then immediately make a bunch of series trying to avoid those things. Remastered64, Poorly Explained, even the SMG4/SMG3 videos to some degree. They don't want to create their own universe anymore. Like you said, they are using a pre-established one to funnel their ideas into the world. It's almost like those changes are still largely disliked and they are actively avoiding it as much as possible. SMG4 isn't a show for anyone, really. That's why I call this new era the meta era. Nothing is tied down to the universe. It is merely riding off the success of the past in order to justify the current era. And people will say that the Puzzlevision saga isn't over yet, but considering how the Puzzlevision movie actively refused to answer many questions and once again feels like a way to creatively show off with the parodies of shows, I think this theory will hold true. If Mr. Puzzles becomes a recurring threat, then I think it's pretty clear that he is a self-insert character meant to be the driving force for their creative endeavors. They want to keep up the idea it is continuous yet have yet to show they will uphold that. All that matters is the new show comes out for us to rate 5 stars. Who cares about patience when you can push out a movie people will love because they love you already? All you need is charisma, charm, and the facade of good intentions and people will (sometimes literally) fall in love. While Luke and Kevin probably do actually mean well, they are simply too focused on their own creative endeavors to understand that they are effectively killing what made them great before. It's just like the transition from classic to modern, only this time the show is so vastly different that it's hard to even argue against it. Classic and modern felt like the same show with a different direction. Meta SMG4 feels like a fanmade channel unironically, and given how they have new writers, I definitely can see why. In the end, they can do all of this, but that doesn't mean the fans will like it. They have shown they will go out of their way to make sure their new ideas come into fruition, and, unfortunately, I don't see that changing barring some insane fandom pushback. That simply won't happen, though. So long as people are laughing every week, they will be incentivized to keep going the way they are. And no, this doesn't mean to start petitions and demand they change. They have to take the first step towards a better product, and that is exactly what the criticism is for. If they don't read it, keep at it. FM said Kevin listens to criticism, so let's see how well that holds up in practice.
I can't lie, you kinda have a point, The stuff they make now almost feels like something I would conjure up in my bedroom, It kind of reminds me of what happened to Sonic in the 20 Tens, A lot of the characters don't really get to do too much, And most of the time, they usually rely on the same few characters, like Sonic, Tails and Eggman
Title might sound intimidating. But don't worry, this video isn't to bash on SMG4, nor is it an actual rant video. Take it as a documentary, analysing the factors for the current state of SMG4, and it's relation with the fans of how they feel about the show.
Oh, and also, please don't comment "If you don't like the show don't watch it". Again, I'm not here to bash on SMG4.
I also want to make another correction here: Ignore the part where I said SMG4 is used "to inspire them to make better shows for their main channel of GLITCH productions". Not very sure why I said that.
I in fact, very much believe that SMG4 is a wonderful show with wonderful ideas, and the workers among the show very much do care about the show.
@@TheAwsumMegarioactually i care about mr puzzle the ending part of puzzlevision is piss me off
The problem is not SMG4, it’s the fandom. Luke has been trying to make the fandom happy by adding more and more changes, while other people hate on him saying his old videos were better, we have to understand that CZcams is a bit complicated nowadays, making it difficult to upload, and having 2 channels working at the same time is hard work, so we can’t just expect it to get better in 1 second, SMG4 has good arcs and writing, the problem is how other view it and take it. But everyone has their own opinion right? So we can’t just go and judge hard work.
I agree
Honestly I just think that the SMG4 fandom can't accept change... which kinda sucks
Yeah, he really should take a temporary trial break from listening to the fans and see what happens? If the consequences are harmless, then fuck the fandom altogether and let him do whatever he wants. If they are harmful, then he probably should select a specific group of fans to support, where their interests are all similar and stuff and the pruned fanbase generally gets along together much more easily. SMG4 will inevitably be accused of betrayal in some way to many anyway, no matter how much he tries to avoid such a label.
I follow smg4 since 2017 and unlike some I am extremely proud of its evolution and I like its content more and more ❤
Unfortunately life is unfair and some do not want to approve of this development
His haters ruin everything and are everywhere we can't get rid of them just ignore them
Smg4 is perfect, but its fandom is not and it disappoints me and makes me sad
@@Ludi312 Many people do not like change! That's the problem, despite the fact that change is inevitable when it comes to growth/evolution.
The lack of continuity is indeed a big flaw in their writing, but I still wouldn't call the show "bad". The mini-arcs were a blast to watch, and the lack of continuity did not severely impact my views on them. Moreover, it is not something unfixable, because they gave us some hints about Mr. Puzzles' potential return, so if he does return they have a big opportunity to connect some plot points, and by doing so give actual continuity to the saga (they left off a lot of questions unanswered in the Puzzlevision movie, for example his connection to the showgrounds, or the boarded up door, so they can potentially use them). I still have hope for the series, and I believe they can do something great with it (if they actually try of course). I guess only time will show, but I will still stay optimistic
Tbh, this series should've ended after War of the Fat Italians 2022. Even if there were still some good ones here and there like that Content Farm parody.
Not saying the creators should abandon the show and focus on their GLITCH content. But they should really do a spinoff for their show to keep them a float, like they did with Meta Runner and Sunset Paradise.
I’m pretty sure that the writers on SMG4 are separate from the writers at Glitch.
Thanks for pointing that out: I think what I was meant to say, is that the entire GLITCH team as a whole can look onto the SMG4 channel and take ideas from it.
@@TheAwsumMegario I see what you’re trying to say, but I don't think that excuses the writers on SMG4 to put less effort into their stories than the writers over at Glitch.
Maybe Mr. Puzzles was right.
"'Cus you're the stupidest show that I've ever seen!" -Mr. Puzzles
nu uh
@@BrianClark-cy5yl yuh uh
lol
“AND IF I CAN MAKE YOU ENTERTAINING I CAN DO ANYTHING “ sincerely, mr puzzles was doing a more entertaining show than smg4 lol poor guy got crushed, so much wasted potencial
@@TheRealNightFall666 he is back because the fans wanted it so yippe!
As someone who had quitted SMG4 and the majority of the fandom by 2024 because of how everything is a huge mess, I've managed to use my ignoring braincells to actually watched the video.
The first thing I want to note is that the argument "SMG4 is being more disliked by fans" by itself is flawed. How many people actually dislike SMG4, and how many percentage do they take up in the entire fandom? We can't truly know for sure, because silent viewers and lurkers exist besides commenters and content creators. This also applies to r/SMG4: it's thought that it's full of critics, but it's quite likely that people holding such views haven't accounted for the subreddit lurkers, and we don't know how many of them like or dislike the show.
Secondly, SMG4 actually listens (or is capable of listening) to criticisms, which is evident by the re-redesigning announcement back in early 2023. But despite so, I suspect that they only heed them when there are lots of complaints about a particular part of the show; otherwise, they're ignored because of many factors: will they have time for them, is it worth spending a long time to make the show a bit more appealing, etc. Therefore, I believe that critics have little chance to make a considerable impact.
Other than those, I agree with the rest of your video.
I think that there is a thing that people really miss about the old smg4 is the low budget side. Think for a moment what the old videos of smg4 looked like. Just sm64 and occasionally gmod gameplay (directly in the game for gmod) green screned in sm64 or gmod Map, and the Characters had outside of stock voices and memes sounds no voice actors. And all of this made smg4's old videos more crazy and nonsensical at eyes ans ear, and i don't mind the abondense of oc's (if they are correctly used) and story arcs, the Real problem of smg4 at the eyes of a lot of people is that now smg4 dosen't look like a stupid show with just a immature kid running it, but now is pretty high quality and sometimes look like it could be in an Glitch serie (btw i don't mind that)
It's a nice jumping quality, but it kinda sucks there isn't much in 64
@@thesonichero2619 Yeah. The Mario 64 usage doesn't inherently mean low-quality or a budget look, it's just a specific style that was iconic to the series (as SMG4 was THE most popular series in that style, there were many by different people before and after him but he's the one that blew up). There are many examples of EXTREMELY HIGH quality Mario 64 machinima that looks gorgeous (obvious example being MJacobBarker but there's plenty of other examples too) and super sleek and clean.
About the puzzlevision saga.. If you look back at it's gotta be perfect, notice the tv on 4's screen when offered the "Magical Keyboard", Mr puzzles has been a problem to the group since smg4 was going insane. It's clear to see it's not just an idea that popped into their head just recently, Mr puzzles is also seen near the end of WOTFI 2023. (Not trying to change your opinion on the series btw.)
not to mention he orchestrated even the events of western spaghetti
bro why can't the writing issues just be a mix of poor writing and laziness (particularly concerning lore and character consistency), why must there be some grand reason behind it like how 'SMG4 is a testing grounds for creating higher quality shows and ideas for GLITCH'. Plus, the SMG4 writing team is clearly separated from GLITCH in terms of the work. Goose, Liam and that guy behind the gaslight district lead and write the GLITCH shows, and seem to have nothing to do with the SMG4 team (they just operate within the same company). I agree with the more minor critiques you have, such as character and lore inconsistencies, but I think your main argument is very flawed imo. There are also some other issues with SMG4 which you don't mention that I think are pretty significant to the quality of the show, like forgotten plot points (i.e. Melony's manga artist career, Meggy's coach job and SMG3's rule over the internet graveyard) which harm consistency and world building/cohesiveness, as well as the serious character appearance problem the show has (Saiko, Melony, Kaizo, SMG1 & 2, Shroomy and many side characters are very underutilised).
I think what you said would make for a great video on your channel.
I think it would be better in a CZcams shorts or a community post, because I think this could be the case
I actually forgot about the CZcams graveyard, I could probably see some of these ideas get expanded when the show grounds gets bigger
Because there is a grand reason why the writing issues are there not just what everyone is saying. The lack of lore acknowledgement comes from the fact it would hop back into a shift of tone or would be out of place in a wacky parody moment which leads why arcs are so rushed or anticlimactic. Character inconsistent comes from the fact they want to focus on that joke it when it can be handled without sacrificing it.
I'm not saying I agree with it just pointing it out there are deeper reasons then just laziness. I guess it could still be considered that but then it would mean something else
I'm just gonna copy-paste this here so I don't have to tell you to refer to the reply of the pinned comment,
"I also want to make another correction here: Ignore the part where I said SMG4 is used "to inspire them to make better shows for their main channel of GLITCH productions". Not very sure why I said that.
I in fact, very much believe that SMG4 is a wonderful show with wonderful ideas, and the workers among the show very much do care about the show."
Welp, it's been a good run, hasn't it? I'm glad I got the opportunity to join you on this adventure, and here's hoping to a bright new future! Good last video!
I personally think that people are so used to the old smg4 that their not used to a thing called "change". Smg4 wanted to go for something more modern and original. I personally love his videos and have been a fan for years now, and I love the changes. I think the episodes today are interesting and cool, even the animations, I also think that the arcs are very cool, even the songs in WOTFI are a bop, some people are just stuck in the past.
See i agree with him until the lawsuit arc but starting from the ITS GOTTA BE PERFECT and the whole puzzlevision saga i dont because their doing small writing cus the saga hasnt ended yet the puzzlevision movie was half of the saga because even in smg4's twitter there is one post saying "we will meet again" with the puzzlevision key chain indicating that hes not dead and the saga isnt over we gotta wait until the BIG movie which my guess is wotfi 2024
Yeah, I legit don't get it. With all of the evidence we have, the saga is very clearly NOT over and believing that it is, feels more and more like a misconception of the movie's ending than anything actually concrete.
It just feels weird and absurd that this misconception is still prevalent, when they've made it so extremely clear through posts from the actual channel and from people working on it, that this saga AIN'T OVER.
Then that begs the question: what was the Puzzlevision movie for? Why make us ask all those questions during 2023 just to make nearly all of them irrelevant in Puzzlevision? You could truly not watch anything from 2023 and fully understand the Puzzlevision movie still. The fact all of 2023 is Puzzles making his own shows truly doesn't add anything and, like Megario says, is merely an idea dump. If Mr. Puzzles is a recurring villain, then expect more of these idea dump style movies that really don't tie to a villain and would easily stand on their own if you didn't know better.
@@fozzie_79 Considering that the saga ain't over and the ever increasing likelihood that the movie's ending was a false one, The Puzzlevision Movie is likely a turning point in the saga and what happens next would show that.
Yeah, ultimately having Mr. Puzzles be a Wotfi villain has its own set of problems. We've already got oversatuated with villains being defeated by Wotfis..... which to be honest really sucks.
I think this whole problem is so heated because you have the Mr. Puzzles stans who are clinging onto the character like an idol, then you have those (like me) who already grew tired of the very idea becauae of how long SMG4 dragged this out. I feel like Mr. Puzzles returning is more of a corporate demand by Kevin because he has dollar signs in his eyes. Puzzlevision was ultimately a pointless movie that did nothing but flanderize the characters.
@SteveM7Nexus Then what comes next? Mr. Puzzles already tried to make a 5 star show and failed. Is he gonna do that again? Will he pull a CZcams Arc SMG3 and create his own Anti-Cast? Will he get real actors instead to get the 5 stars? At that point, you make all of the saga to this point irrelevant since he gains creative control of real life. Why use the objectively stupid cast at all? And no, his arrogance thinking he can do anything makes no sense if he has control of reality by the end anyway. Who cares how you get to 5 stars so long as you do? Puzzles preached how patience is stupid yet he chose the hardest path to success.
I have yet to see any reason as to how this is actually a turning point. People say it is, yet there is no logical reason for it to be besides the fans wanting him back or, as I said, it is to create more idea dump movies rather than a cohesive story and universe.
4:06 Luke literally said that the entire puzzlevision thing was to test some new things out and have fun. The point of it was to be an idea dump. Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with that or anything wrong with the normal episodes either. It shouldn’t be a problem that they are changing the style of their videos.
1:43
The main reason why SMG4 doesn't listen to criticism is because of rant videos like MetalBlade5's, not only are his arguments really basic and popular talking points (in Nostalgia Egg's words) that have been said countless times by others, the guy is also just throwing baseless acusations against the Glitch crew, for example he acuses Lizzie Freeman of being racist when that is not true, but also spews out conspiraties about Luke and Kevin's relationship. All in all, this video is just full of bad faith criticism mixed with some unhiged lies, and given the attention this vid got, many ex-fans started to use this as their base for ranting on modern SMG4.
And even when there are constructive criticism, most of them don't get enough attention, because most of them are made outside of CZcams, and when they are on CZcams, most of the ex-fans will go to vids like the MetalBlade5 one, because a good majority of them are 2014 fanboys that don't accept changes.
Now don't get me wrong, I am able to differentiate the ex-fans that are fanboys of the 2014 era and that just want the show to get reversed back to how it was during that year (like Viclis and most of his fanbase), and the ones that actually want the show to improve with the ideas and concepts it has (like SMBD 12, CiblesYT, Yoshifan139 (a guy in the SMG4 wiki discuss group), or you Megario), but here's the thing, the former fanbase is incredibly toxic, and overshadows the latter fanbase, which leads to constructive criticism on CZcams not getting as much attention as they should.
However, given how much attention some of your SMG4 related videos get, there's maybe a chance that if you make a constructive criticism video of SMG4, it could get enough attention to catch Glitch's eyes and make them listen to you, it already hapened with Dafawfulizer's video, so maybe you can repeat the story and hell, even become the Dabhdude of SMG4. But hey, that's just what I think, you can tell me your own tought on this.
I only started watching SMG4 right before WOTFI 2022, and I think people also like to criticize the series for SMG4 simply not being a recolor anymore. The only time recolors will appear now Is when another remastered64 video comes out. In other words, people will find the smallest things to criticize SMG4 with and make it seem like the show is the worst show to ever exist. Even if they're somehow right, I pretty sure there are worse shows out there.
@@Sonicrules36 Funny how we started watching SMG4 in the same timespan, I also began watching SMG4 in late 2022, more precisely in December of 2022, and I geniunely enjoyed the show.
I agree that people overreact with the redesigns, and criticising SMG4 with the smallest things, that's exactly what purist do.
There already however were people that complained about SMG4 in 2021, the most notorious one being MetalBlade5.
My main problem with these criticism is that many of them come from nostalgia blinded 2014 era fanboys that grew up with this era and that think this year represents SMG4 as a whole. They don't want the show to improve, they just want to revert it back to how it was in 2014, where everyone were complete idiots, instead of being actual characters, and where the humor was overused, and just a load of random voice clips slapped onto repetitive nonsense.
And the criticism that are not from these fanboys, are completelly overshadowed by the fanboys' criticism. Which means you get terrible to abysmal criticisms that are relevant, and good to great criticisms that are irrelevant.
Get some paragraphs. I ain’t reading a wall of text.
But I do somewhat understand the comment. It’s a shame though.
@@THGMR-ox7sd I just made the comments more paragraphed, so maybe they'll be readable for you. I also agree with you, its really a shame that most of the criticism SMG4 get are in bad faith, and they're often garbage. And worst of all ? The worst criticism often get more attention than the good ones. So yeah, its really a depresing reality we live into.
I started watching it on 2018, and sincerely… it annoys me how other character don’t appear anymore .. like WHY MEGGY (I love meggy but for gods sake ) WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY CHARACTERS LEFT BEHIND, and the potencial wasted (mr puzzles 😭😭😭) is so huge
I haven't watched the video yet, but I wanted to give my two cents on something that personally bothers me about SMG4. Specifically how once Melony's "arc" with SMG0 and all that stuff was done, she was thrust into the background and hasn't really made any serious appearances since. She could've been a great help in so much stuff since then, but they never let her do anything since they wrote her to be so overpowered that having her even be around removes most of the tension from any kind of stressful situation the characters find themselves in. Idk, it bothers me. It's like they finished what they wanted to do with her and then went "Fuck you." and removed her from the show.
It kinda sucks
Respectfully, this entire video is just confusing me. While i see where you're coming from with how they dont do much with the past arcs using what luke said in the puzzle vision saga as proof hes using it for glitch and not listening to fans makes no sense as he said he expiremented in the channel over how his past videos felt more this way like the mario simulator.
His team was happy over how they've pushed themselves in which we can also see regardless of quality he wants to take his team in a bigger creative direction to bring back those type of expiremental classic videos. He did not do this to use it for another channel not to mention smg4 team being completely different makes that statement sound weirder.
smg4s, writing issues comes from the fact that it wants to tell stories while keeping comedy first in fact thats why the impact of majority of arcs get left behind until its needed.
We already saw this with meggy and melony in the past yet i recall nothing but negativity on the fact they went on at least one more episode or movie to address their feelings over the fact it just didn't belong there.
Smg4 has been listening just not the way fans want him to as well and its hard to do so when theres such a split fanbase and the ones that dont like arcs are still watching too.
I think smg4 is doing perfectly fine atm, I’ve been a fan since 2019-2020 and believe they’ve actually improved and still believe they will improve more and more
Plus I mean they do an episode a week which leaves little time to write so for the time they have they do some pretty good writing, I wanna see you write good scripting every week for a 10 minute episode and not make some mistakes before you criticize them
@@EDoty-mn6xy Yeah. You make an insanely valid point. From personal experience, writing can be a pain to get through along with the revisions and edits. Especially with such a small deadline.
I would prefer to have a video every 2 weeks or more then the way it is right now actually
Also I don’t want to be rude, but why do you get so annoyed over a simple opinion lol
@@TheRealNightFall666 In all honesty, I don't blame them.
Having so much negative criticism/rants can be really annoying at times. Especially in this case with SMG4, where it does nothing to actually help and just festers more unnecessary hate. It's basically the result of having too much Negative Criticism and not enough Constructive Criticism (at least in terms of visibility).
For me personally, I don't like the newer SMG4 episodes is because they slowly began to use more screentime for G Mod than screentime for SM64 and I didn't really like the change and I drifted away pretty quickly.
The callback to your very first video was nice to see.
I bellive that thinking it as a Serialized Show would never work. SMG4 is not a traditional show like, Meta Runner, Murder Drones or Digital Circus, with a set beginning and end. it is a YT Channel, that plains to go on indefinitively, world billding would only become a hindrance in the long run. This current "Idea Dump Era" sounds a lot more sutainable and realistic the weekly YT Channel that it is.
Why
I like both contenr the modern and the old.
In my opinion,their both good. Sometimes, i watch the old and sometimes i watch the modern and hes there is a huge difference between them but it shows how luke is trying to improve. Luke has grown up and he is not the same anymore. People change. As he grew more his humor changed. Yes he is not the same anymore but still he tries to make his fans happy and he DOES listen to the criticism like when he was getting hate for the new redesigns in early 2023.He changed it and made it much better. One problem is the fanbase of the community. It is slowly getting worse. They dont appreciate luke for what hes doing. Hes trying to improve but smg4 does lack some things and has overused characters but it isnt overall bad i like it. People can see how much his videos have changed and another thing i wanted to point out were the "Old" fans. I have seen a lot of them. The problem with them is that they go around smg4's videos or some comment that likes smg4 and just comment saying "Omggg! Modern smg4 sucks old better+no one cares+your opinion doesn't matter and luke sucks he isn't even funny anymore" i may agree that he is not as much funny as he was back in the day but nowadays he is focusing more on lore and storylines on his channels.
(Will continue sorry if its big 😭)
Remember when SMG4 was just a big meme?
I believe that they did bad writing on purpose. most of the bad writing came with the puzzlevision arc, in which Mr. Puzzles influenced the narrative by quite a bit, and his shows were hilariously bad on purpose.
"SMG4 doesn't listen to criticism." is a BS statement. The SMG4 hate began when Meggy was used occasionally. This resulted in a strong enough hate boner towards her that the "fan base" had to the point where Luke and Kevin felt the need to not include her in as many 2018 videos that she would've been perfect in. (I E Mario Battle Royale.)
In general, the SMG4 sub reddit is the worst aspect of the channel. It's not criticism. It's b!tching.
Also, you're putting words into Luke's mouth when you say that SMG4 is nothing more than a side project for Glitch. The Puzzle Vision story has been planned carefully since the beginning of 2023. The vague "SMG4 is poorly written.) critique isn't criticism. That's why Luke no longer listens to it.
Yeah. There's a definite difference between Constructive Criticism and Negative Criticism.
The former is worded and spoken in such a way that actually helps (essentially being civil about it). The latter is basically overly negative rants that really do nothing to actually help. It's honestly just sad, cause anything that actually helps gets drowned out by overly negative rants and it barely (if at all) gets to the creators.
I see where the video is going, but i think the medium for SMG4 has changed too, Nintendo did a shadowban on most of GMOD assets. Now, we have nothing, so they have to move to other sources to provide with the videos.
What people don't understand is that SMG4 wants to raise in quality and be more original. They're not gonna stay the same forever. Things are gonna have to change.
I personaly think that smg4 took such a massive hit in 2022 that it's like season seven of spongebob it was so bad that it made people hate the show and it didn't really matter how good it was aftter that the lawsuit arc was stupid and dumb it bascly was the compleat opposite of modern and older smg4 i mean look at wofti 2021 and puzzlevision
I think he has improved, he has improved in animation dramatically, most people are mad because of the design chances for smg4 and 3, I genuinely love the new designs as they are original, smg4 saved me from my own fears so I’m eternally grateful for smg4’s decisions
Well the thing is people expect a lot out of CZcamsrs like him but the amount of effort he already put in his channel is incredible I been watching since he started his whole Mario videos my favorite videos were some of his old ones like “who let the chomp out” or “the grand Mario hotel” he has come a long way and still deserves more for his effort
I think SMG4 went from "funny mario and other characters getting in random predicaments" to "a group of characters and ideas being thrown around to entertain the Glitch team as they're resting after creating an amazing episode of TADC or Murder Drones", of course it's going to lack cohesion or "timbre".
I do wish that sometimes Smg4 could make more darker/suspense story episodes to really get the viewers on their seats.
Everyone likes the puzzlevision arc
newer episodes feel so different
As of October 2023, I’m done with them for good, that WOTFI was the worst thing ever, and I’m tired of them overusing SMG3
I think that this video was actually pretty well made and had some good points :0
Many people disagree which is unfortunate
I still have hope for his channel tho... but we just have to wait and see... btw was it intentional to make text fit the song perfectly in your first video?
The problem is that everyone wants a writing style similar to gnr back, when that's exactly what they're trying to run away from. Because they've changed for the better of their channel and for themselves. I wonder if they hate that older content with slurs and offensive shit, but just can't afford to delete it
that's beacus he is just a content creator who just wants to make people happy don't blame him😐
The thing I don’t like about smg4 was he used to make funny skits back in the days now it’s just stories with just Mario if he wanted to do that it shouldn’t be Nintendo related
You do make a lot of good points, but I feel like the reason the shows been a bit all over the place, especially since western spaghetti and the it’s gotta be perfect arc, is because it’s building to something in the future… Mr. puzzles changed a LOT of the status quo in the show in a pretty drawn out amount of time, and his entire plan seemed to revolve around making random shows. Heck he even makes a point of quoting in his song about how stupid he finds the SMG4 show to be. So it’s likely that he may have screwed up a LOT of things, maybe even including the continuity of the show itself… which if that’s the case, that would’ve a pretty insane twist. Plus now that he’s made a return thanks to popular fan demand, (though I’m sure his return was planned well in advance), I feel all that’s happened is heavily building to something in the future… but I guess we shall find out what they have in store, and wether it will be good or not!
The only issue I have with SMG4, is that he doesn't really take a lot of risks/always relying on Mario. Why not make an episode with just the SMG4 original characters sometimes?
I just discovered your channel yesterday : ,)
Do you know put a fit in more than five episode right 4:09
in my opinion It peaked at anywhere before 2019. They had low quality in terms of animation, put you could see it had care to be a funny show
Idk why the story arcs and stuff like puzzle vision are nonstop
Let my man have his right
Smg4 old video still exist. Go watch it and stop whining and shut up for once
Average kid
Shut up bro
@@dlovansl2 people can sometimes change. Never seen an i person with ten thousand subscribes can be THIS scumbag. Grow up
lmao deleted comment, bro replied with me with yapping then "grow up"
@@dlovansl2 i edited it then it disappears lmao. Plus ima not get involved in this I'm too lazy
I like there vids😢
a
Personally. I could careless because I just want to enjoy it
I liked SMG4 when it was Mario running from Chain Chomps and SLG4 Randomly Chasing SMG4 and stuff and SMG3 was actually evil
You forgot his merch addiction.
I probably belong in the pls make a good story Camp
I mean it’s also hated because of the Celeste situation
There’s no fucking way
⚠️ YOU HAVE ALERTED THE FANDOM ⚠️
You saying them going their own way is wrong is just dumb. They are being themselves and it's a big step to ignore people saying mean things about them. This is honestly not a good idea to make a video about them being bad. Just saying.
I said that going their own way is "wrong" Wrong, with quotations. I'm not the one to judge SMG4's decision here - the quotations marks mean that some fans of SMG4 are angry at their decision.
In fact, I might even make a video, talking about the POSITIVES of SMG4 going their own way.
@@TheAwsumMegario oh ok
I am just interested in watching from SMG4 that is not part of main channel anymore.
I love the show, I don't care what people tell me
Smg4 has bad writing cuz M E M E S and not L O R E
Smg4 is ment to be goofy 😎
What if a bunch of people make an SMG4-like show together? Idk sounds like a cool idea
I mean I kinda took inspiration from SMG4 to make my series(Don’t have GMOD or know how to use it so I’m using Gacha Life) so that’s kinda like making an SMG4-like show
There's a ton of fan channels out there
@@thesonichero2619 I meant like a Collab channel of smg4 fan channels
@@windowsbammer2837 I'd actually join that if that's a thing, but who's making the channel?
@@Cyber_Girl_Hibiki_Chan it’s not a thing, I’m just throwin the idea out there 🤷♂️
it drifted too far off from what it originally was
SMG4 is not the problem nor it’s show poor. Your just not being creative and want to give up. Never up on something you work hard on. So give this series a chance and stop being so critical
Shut up
Hello
That... actually explains a lot
The writing is good
At least he isn't a copy of a intro and a stupid 3k youtuber
The Entire SMG4 Series Needs Some Major Improvements They Hasn't Been Same Since Late 2022 With A Lot of Poor Personality of Each Character.
9:21 It's me, I like that the PuzzleVision arc was laid back and all, Like, I'm glad that it didn't try to take itself too seriously, but I feel like you could still add character development, To me, it just feels like some of the characters are just sitting around waiting for something to happen, I think it's nice seeing SMG4 and his crew more happy and trying out new formats, I feel like you could still tell a simple story, but have it still have an impact on your channel
There is only one problem
Fandom cannot handle changes and blames Luke and tells everyone that it is worse than Velma and Knuckles
Fr
SMG4 is great. People just can’t deal with change and want not necessarily the show but their lives to stay the same. They also cling to nostalgia way too much.
Finally someone who understands!
I will forever cherish the old SMG4 but times change and we must adapt to that change
Change isn't bad, but there is such thing as a bad change sometimes
@@taifuskies3889 Yeah, I’ve not really watched SMG4 earlier than 2020 so although the show has changed I’m not tinted by old memories like most people
@@thesonichero2619 I agree, certain changes are bad but sometimes change is good or just something that lets us move on from things in the past
It’s honestly way too cringe tbh
So your saying that “SMG4 is a testing ground for Glitch”?
Bruh no it is not, y’all are dense because both SMG4 and GLITCH are SEPARATE.
Plus the creators of MD and TADC never take inspirations from the SMG4 show, it’s their own vision.
I'll admit it: I did not really word what I said in the video properly, but lemme reword it,
SMG4 is a show, which is a ground for amazing ideas, which writers such as Luke and Kevin contribute to. Their creative ideas also take inspiration and ideas from shows like TADC. For example, the entire circus theme of SMG4 could be the writers taking inspiration from GLITCH.
tf
Tf you crying about now zionist
He's a massive simp
Mf removed my comment. If I can’t call him a Zionist guess I’ll call him a gooner
Megario's right.
SMG4 is a stupid and illogical show where the lore doesn't make any sense, and the creators and writers do it their way, not ours. The entirety of the SMG4 series is nothing but just entertainment, and Puzzlevision pretty much explains it all.
I started watching ShockHat734 instead.
Theory:I believe the puzzle vision arc was trying to say that its complicated to have a good "rate" showing how mr puzzles coukd be the smg4 channel and the crew is the fanbase in somesort. :>
It's like the amazing world of gumball there's lore but more random stuff. Arcs used to randomly happen. Nothing is connected smg4 is still a great CZcamsr but nothing ever last forever. And when Meggy dies because that will 100 percent happen that will be the last video before smg4 is over.
OR hear Me out Here … The Fans standards are too high!
Here's the thing though: SMG4 already set the standards in 2019, with the anime arc. Fans expected that good writing from the Anime Arc to be maintained for future arcs in SMG4, but it didn't. The storywriting got "worse".
Bro is saying it’s so bad when his channel is based off of it
Think a little more about it blud and it may make sense
😧
Ok
Oh wait you right
If you think about it SMG4 isn’t supposed to be incredible. It’s supposed to be a stupid dumb meme channel.
yes
So what? 95% of his fanbase enjoys the changes and it brought newer fans to the series. At least he no where near gotten bad like SML
Man I miss the old Smg4 ever since there redesigns it's just been horrible it's not funny anymore the old videos had me laughing my ass off still till this day has me laughing my ass off but now it's like stupid annoying and at sometimes even down right bad cringe
I don't like this video
Why?
Opinions
ok
Ok?
Not true
Huh
cool
Marioxmeggy
The first video I ever watched from SMG4 was “If Mario was in portal“ I watched it because I liked portal to that time and the mario franchise too…I never regretted watching it. I laughed so hard lol.
These days the videos aren‘t any funny anymore but…..still good
☠️
lol
No wonder 75% of TADC fandom hasn't watched SMG4, they'd die trying to understand anything!! I swear, we need to get r/smg4critisism more popular man!! And honestly, it's kinda almost like this entire puzzlevision saga was only to get all the remaining classic fans to quit the channel.
Also do you think you can do an SMG4 parody of welcome to the internet?
Smg4 is great. He doesn’t have bad writing, it has good VILLAN arcs and good stuff, puzzle vison was great sooooo yaaa go hate me ya smg4 idiot haters
puzzle vison
Yeah, this is the reason why I moved to "The Amazing Digital Circus" for great reasons.
It's because the main SMG4 content isn't supposed to be story-based, it's mainly for entertainment and memes, story isn't SMG4's focus
Bro wdym it is amazing
I don't like it
Lie
This is what fanfic is for
100% agree with you
I wish Tari and luigi stopped having so much fear after they apparently stopped in western spaghetti.
Heavy Approve
Isn't the show just supposed to be funny videos with Mario and other characters? I don't really care about bad writing, I just watch SMG4 as fun videos without thinking of it as a tv show with continuity.
Maybe I should talk with pretzl/Murble vr….
I think I would give this a 50/50. Some points I don't agree with but I definitely respect that you're using constructive criticism, so here are my points:
1. SMG4 most likely doesn't listen to criticism because most of it is all the same. "Modern SMG4 fell off, old videos were better, the redesigns suck, the voice acting sucks". Surely he doesn't want to hear the fandom bitching about going back to old videos constantly. This is the same case with Vivziepop's haters with her two shows in the same universe, Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, both criticisms constantly being "stop with the constant sex jokes and swearing every minute". The only difference is Vivzie responds negatively to criticism, while SMG4 doesn't and ignores it, but they've both grown tired of both their shows having the same criticism when they just want to do their own thing without people complaining about the same thing constantly without end. People change over time. We all have changed including SMG4. The reason people say "anyone miss old [nostalgic youtuber]?" is because they, like most do, don't want to grow up and stay in good old times. They refuse to accept that SMG4 is changing and evolving his content from just being Mario shitposts and having a fully fledged story while still keeping meme material in it, I'm fine with the changes but people need to know that if people want to do something different, they want to do something different and accept that.
2. I don't think the PuzzleVision arc was just an "idea dropbox". This entire arc has been developed all the way since "SMG4, Are you OK?" hence the perfection arc, only being a piece of the entire PuzzleVision saga. (Mr. Puzzles is responsible for sending 4 the demonic keyboard, leading to the destruction of Peach's castle and selling the Showgrounds to the crew.) Mr. Puzzles has constantly been behind nearly everything since early 2023, so if SMG4 had the idea for him THAT early, I don't think the PuzzleVision arc (in its entirety since IGBP and the PV shows and movie) has only been an idea dropbox. I'm pretty sure he was just talking about Mr. Puzzles's shows being the idea dropbox where the crew can give their creative ideas for parodies and such, just as we see with Mr. Puzzles's shows.
These are the only 2 points I could make but I hope I could make it as clear and understandable as I could make it
I’m cringe and read the fanfics, they atlest have continuity from for example the IGBP event from head canons that probably at least make a bit a sense :/
I think you're right that the channel is for creative ideas, but it isn't for Glitch. It's because Luke and Kevin don't actually control Glitch anymore. They're not directing and writing the shows there. Liam does MD, Goose does TADC, and Nick is doing GD. Luke and Kevin only have SMG4 as their avenue now, and so they restructured the channel around that.
It started by making the Lawsuit Arc to disassociate with the cosmology saga via redesigns, then IGBP preaches a message about how SMG4 doesn't need to listen to anyone besides himself to be great. All that matters is he loves what he's doing. Look at the channel now and it is a creative vessel rather than continuous. The fact Colin's arc idea was shot down because it related TOO CLOSELY to previous lore says it all. With the Puzzlevision movie, you truly don't need to watch anything in 2023 to understand it. Compare this to Revelations, which heavily requires watching the Genesis Arc in order to understand a lot of the things going on. IGBP and WS only get brief mentions in PV, and WOTFI 2023 isn't even mentioned at all. None of the character development actually matters because that doesn't matter. Doesn't help that they had new writers who didn't even work for the show until this year on Puzzlevision. Plus, they worked on a content farm previously, and now they are able to flex their creativity with the songs they have written and stuff like Clench.
In the end, SMG4 is a show that has no real direction. It isn't as deep as they pretend it is. It is truly surface level stuff because they will not care to make it deeper. I find it funny how they redesign everything, too, then immediately make a bunch of series trying to avoid those things. Remastered64, Poorly Explained, even the SMG4/SMG3 videos to some degree. They don't want to create their own universe anymore. Like you said, they are using a pre-established one to funnel their ideas into the world. It's almost like those changes are still largely disliked and they are actively avoiding it as much as possible.
SMG4 isn't a show for anyone, really. That's why I call this new era the meta era. Nothing is tied down to the universe. It is merely riding off the success of the past in order to justify the current era. And people will say that the Puzzlevision saga isn't over yet, but considering how the Puzzlevision movie actively refused to answer many questions and once again feels like a way to creatively show off with the parodies of shows, I think this theory will hold true. If Mr. Puzzles becomes a recurring threat, then I think it's pretty clear that he is a self-insert character meant to be the driving force for their creative endeavors. They want to keep up the idea it is continuous yet have yet to show they will uphold that. All that matters is the new show comes out for us to rate 5 stars. Who cares about patience when you can push out a movie people will love because they love you already? All you need is charisma, charm, and the facade of good intentions and people will (sometimes literally) fall in love. While Luke and Kevin probably do actually mean well, they are simply too focused on their own creative endeavors to understand that they are effectively killing what made them great before. It's just like the transition from classic to modern, only this time the show is so vastly different that it's hard to even argue against it. Classic and modern felt like the same show with a different direction. Meta SMG4 feels like a fanmade channel unironically, and given how they have new writers, I definitely can see why.
In the end, they can do all of this, but that doesn't mean the fans will like it. They have shown they will go out of their way to make sure their new ideas come into fruition, and, unfortunately, I don't see that changing barring some insane fandom pushback. That simply won't happen, though. So long as people are laughing every week, they will be incentivized to keep going the way they are. And no, this doesn't mean to start petitions and demand they change. They have to take the first step towards a better product, and that is exactly what the criticism is for. If they don't read it, keep at it. FM said Kevin listens to criticism, so let's see how well that holds up in practice.
Well, I’ll take that as Fozzie’s comment of approval. All that matters to make a rant video valid.
/j
I can't lie, you kinda have a point, The stuff they make now almost feels like something I would conjure up in my bedroom, It kind of reminds me of what happened to Sonic in the 20 Tens, A lot of the characters don't really get to do too much, And most of the time, they usually rely on the same few characters, like Sonic, Tails and Eggman
I thought I was an asshole thinking the writing was bad lol