It's easier to say this than it is to do it, but this is not an episode to be turned away from. This episode requires one to stand strong and face a terrible reality. This is not something to be swept under the rug and be forgotten. I have nothing but great respect for James Scott in the manner in which he brings this horrible event to the reader and in this case, the viewer. As hard as it is for the reader or viewer, imagine how hard it must have been for Mr. Scott to compile this information. For his efforts I look at him as a hero for not letting the people who perished be forgotten. Never Forget 💝🎗️.
Gentlemen, This episode recounts one of the darker chapters from the Second World War. However, it makes an important contribution to educating contemporary viewers about the darkness that can descend upon 'civilized' societies anytime we lose sight of our common humanity. Thank you for your steadfast efforts to entertain, educate and inform the masses.. V/r - IB Footnote - On the importance of historical rememberance: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” [George Santayana, "The Life of Reason" (1905)]
NOT HIS COPY F I G H T ..."The past is prologue" is as ancient as this crummy murder-torn-the-killuminati-run SCHACKLE of a world ...Santayana is azily beaten by EMERSON, SPENGLER & TOYNBEE - what a quartet ...add BURCKHARDT - u get a quintet.
I had a co-worker in the US Army in mid-80s who was in the battle of Manila, another who was a Filipino in the inland resistance, and a cousin in the Bataan death march. All related about terrible atrocities by the Japanese.
Presentations like this are new to me. For an old guy like me it's like rediscovering the invention of radio and television, all in one medum. Unlike modern television you really have to listen and pay attention. 10 out of 10 for providing a rivetting, infomative experience.
My dad, who was 15 years old in 1945 and lived in Paco, Manila during WW2, told me the same harrowing stories of Japanese atrocities. He told me that he and his family hid under the Philippine General Hospital during the battle of Manila. He contrasted the absolute sadism of the Japanese with the bravery of individual American soldiers, who he characterized as wanting to clear the city of Japanese as soon as possible because they knew how much the civilians were suffering.
I was 15 in 1945. I grew up during World War II. I went to the movies every week. Saw all the war movies. Kept abreast of the war mainly the Pacific war. Your podcasts about the Pacific is the best. Hopefully young America of today will know who America was and is. I lost my neighbor recently. He was a marine on Iwo Jima in 1945. He survived, came home, discharged before he was 19. America performed the magnificent from 1941 to 1945. Thank You
My father served on the War Crimes Tribunal in Morotai after the war. He would never speak of it to me (a child when he died). He was extremely cross when he found I had climbed the bookcases and taken down Lord Birkenhead’s book “Knights of Bushido”. I have a copy of a magazine article in which he told of one of the trials, the execution, on a small bypassed island, of 4 POWs at the end of the war on the orders of Tokyo. The local commander who seemed to have treated the captives comparatively well pointed out the lack of difficulty for the garrison and the order was affirmed more strongly. After the war, he would never buy a Japanese made item.
Musta not been a jazz fan : the reissue legacy of Jpn companies of the OOP U.S. classics IS STELLAR since mid 70s onwards. I know, I m a hardbop devotee 🇫🇮 (nevuhh judgea book by its cover ...).
My mother who is now 89 told us a lot of stories about the Liberation. I don't remember any of you mentioning that the north bank of the Pasig River was largely spared of destruction while the opposite bank bore the brunt of the room to room fighting. There's a couple massacres that weren't mentioned namely the one in St. Paul's College across the Philippine General Hospital and the other in De La Salle College, where majority of the De La Salle Brothers, along with several members of prominent families in Manila were either shot, stabbed or their throats slit. We have a family friend who survived that massacre and he was 4 yrs old at that time. He remembered staring at a Japanese soldier who was about the stab him with a bayonet when one of the Brothers stepped in front and got stabbed as a result. The Brother fell on top of him and he had to play dead for around 2 days before he eventually was rescued.
If I could make some recommendations about the 1945 season, could you do an episode on British Pacific Fleet, their history, operations and contributions etc. It would be nice to bring the naval historian Dr. Alexander Clarke or Drachinifel.
I wonder if Seth and Bill will do a separate season, or maybe seasons, on the British in the Pacific since they seem interested in doing a lot with the CBI aspect the Pacific instead of simply an episode of two. I'd love to see them cover it in a season.
Excellent idea! Seth & Bill have done some terrific collabs with Drach. Dr. Clarke is a superb historian but he does his best work on his own, I think.
Even if i like Drachinifel, and not to dismiss the fight of theses braves soldiers and sailors, it was nonetheless a side show to help bring back the bruised prestige of the former empire
One of the great historo-sociological problems of this story is examining the transition of the Japanese armed forces after the First World War to their savage "nature" in WWII. In the first war, and especially in the Russo-Japanese war, while the Japanese troops were just as fanatical in taking casualties to achieve their objectives as they ever would be, they were also noted for their courtesy to defeated enemies; they exemplified much of the positive images of the samurai. It was only in the 1930's and 40's, starting with the treatment of the Chinese civilian population, that the horrific vision of the treatment of non-Japanese became common and evident. Why this change occurred is a subject of considerable debate in many countries.
Would I be amiss in thinking that this military coup I hear happened sometime in the 1930s had a lot to do with the Japanese succumbing to the worse demons of their nature? I mean, the extremists behind the coup actually thought that Yamamoto -- the same Yamamoto who planned the Pearl Harbor attack -- wasn't warlike enough, which they saw as tantamount to treason!
Horseshit and horseshit. Ask any Korean. They know the history of the Japanese on their peninsula going back to the late nineteenth century. The brutality of the IJA was every bit as heinous then. The Japanese Army was a terrible army in the classical sense to all non-white opponents up until WWII. From then on they removed the other half of the mask. Please read a book.
Unlike Germany, who made reparations and formal apologies for the atrocities they committed during the war, Japan has never taken ownership of what their Armed Forces did during World War II. In fact, in Japanese schools, they don't even reference World War ii, not even Pearl Harbor. So in Japan, they seem to have this Collective Societal Amnesia about what their Armed Forces did during World War II. And for that, I have a hard time with the Japanese. My parents were both veterans of World War ii, my father serving with the US Navy in the South Pacific. So in our household growing up there was nothing Japanese in our house. If it was made in Japan, it was not purchased. In fact when I got my first car at 17, my father bought it for me and he specifically said that there will never be any of those quote un quote Japanese rice burners in our house. While I didn't share my father's hatred of the Japanese, I could certainly understand it due to what he had experienced during the war. Thank you for dealing with this hard topic today with the respect and reverence that at deserves.🙏🇺🇲⚓️💯💖
@@Jakal-pw8yq Japan has apologized several times to China, Korea and the Philippines. They settled reparation claims from both the Philippines and South Korea. China refused reparations, but received over 30 billion dollars in economic aid and 140 billion dollars in loans. I would say Japan has done enough.
Its always best to treat people on a case by case basis. Like.... i just had 2 bad experiences in a row with 2 single mothers but i know not all single Moms are rotten. Ive gone through phases. I remember in high-school i was mean to people i should not have been mean to. They weren't even Japanese they were Chinese.... but me being shallow and slightly racist i saw "ww2 Japanese soldiers" youngs dudes in high-school. Horrible behavior. Now i really admire Japan and the Japanese people. Im mesmerized by how dense and beautiful and rich that culture is. The bladesmiths and sumo and martial arts and archery and swordsmanship... so much high culture....but it's been a long process of identifying what my inner principles are and identifying logical inconsistencies in my worldview.
@@joeyartk Its more than an apology and reparations needed. Jpan will always make a big deal about the horror of the Atomic bombs, but then refuse to mention in their history books in school their responsibility for initiating a war of aggression, the atrocities they committed that brought about such a response to a nation that just would not surrender, but would employ starving old men, women, and children to fight on the beaches with bamboo spears and IED's, for the sake of "honor". I wonder if the majority of Japanese have any idea of the breath the depth of their nations former war crimes.
I am from the Philippinnes. It is a matter of fact that there were no families who lived in Manila at that time (rich or poor) who did not have at least one relative who was killed in the battle of Manila. The Japanese were mostly high on shabu (Crack) and were extremely brutal. My uncles who were with Ramsey's Guerillas and joined-in with the American forces coming from the north into the city, were so disgusted of the Japanese that it took them until 1969 that they were able to look at a Japanese man without thinking of wanting to kill him.
I read the rape of nanking many many years ago by a female writer,it took me a long time to read due to its ferocity violence and having the human senses battered. It beggars belief. I dont know whether i can bring myself to read the other books about military atrocities that you talk about. Thank you for your great podcast. 🇬🇧
80 years later we Filipinos have made Japan our friend. But I wish this part of their history of atrocity would be included in their history books also. I have met a lot of good Japanese who have no idea whatsoever of this part of their past as they only consider themselves victims of the atomic bomb. Nothing like looking at truth in the eye, acknowledging that we can be both victims and perpetrators of war crimes. That's what it means to be a human being. The Japanese suffer from a self-imposed amnesia.
All cultures can be brutal. The makeup of some cultures make them more vulnerable to be led down bad paths by the leaders. Has you stated young Japanese are unaware of the atrocities of world war II that the Japanese people committed. Is all the Japanese people are doing very well groupism can still be a problem if the new leader comes along and directs the people down a path which will lead to hardship and destruction. I like the young Japanese that I see but of course I have learned that they know little of the behavior of Japanese soldiers during world war II.
I spent many yrs in & out of the Philippines, 85' - 2011, and I was sad - how many younger Filipinos had very little knowledge of their WWll history w/ the Japanese (sorry) ..
One of the adoption trips our family took to China, we encountered a Japanese deligation that had planned to build a business relationship with the Chinese. There was a huge protest as the Japanese would never acknowledge the atrocities that were committed in WWII, nor apologize for anything.
It is impressive the expanding list of colleagues appearing on these episodes. 'Rampage' is an amazing read, a necessary read. Must understand history so we as people do not make the same mistakes again. Thank you James. Seth and Bill.
My grandfather was in the US Army in WWII. He was in Manila during and after the battle. He talked very little of the war, but one time he just opened up and spoke about the Japanese atrocities he saw in Manila. Absolutely horrific.
"Rampage" is legitimately hard to read. I think it's important, though. I don't know if you can understand the Pacific war (and the Asian mainland) without understanding that stuff like this, and like Nanking, were just larger pieces of common IJA behavior.
I can remender when i came home from the service ,I ask my dad how he dealt with what he had done in ww2 , his answer was booze, and that was my out .... when dad would see a japanese person you could see the hatered in his eyes... I know why now ... that you for the great account, ... God bless
I had a high school classmate who's father was one of the survivors of the POW camp that was chronicled in Hampton Sides's book, "Ghost Soldiers". If Roosevelt had sided with Nimitz's war plan that classmate wouldn't have existed. Sides discusses the U.S. intelligence intercepts of Japanese radio traffic that was being sent to Japanese forces in the Pacific regarding executing all war prisoners.
Scott's book "Rampage" is vicious, man. Absolutely NOT for the faint of heart but absolutely a truth that needs to be told. It just wrecks you and makes you want to go back in time and go Rambo on the perpetrators. Not only that, but I think it also made my neighborhood think I'm a deranged lunatic because I got the audio book version and listened to it while doing my nightly walks and usually I dont say a word listening to other books/podcasts but this one I'm belting out loud "OMFG!" "Jeeeesus Christ!" and "Noooooooooo!" lol You just want the good guys to show up and save the day......and it just doesnt happen in time to spare or save them. 💯
This book was a brutal read. I had to put it down on several occasions. I felt as though I owed it to the victims and survivors of the events to finish it. I am so glad I did and am very grateful to have that perspective to appreciate this episode.
A friend lived there for a few years in the 2000's, and he said the EXACT same thing. He was astounded at the general ignorance of WEII.@bufoferrata3205
@@kemarisite Wasnt their a Life magazine cover in 1944 with a picture of a young woman looking at the skull of a Japanese soldier her boyfriend sent her from the Pacific?
@@joeyartk Someone who is too stupid to know the difference between they're, there and their is too stupid to engage in adult conversation. Excusing Japanese atrocities shows you have no morals whatsoever.
Thanks Guys, everyone needs this, specially those that have forgotten, just started watching, this is going to be hard to make it thru, I know Y-T isn't going to fund this one.
This is going to be dark. Only rivalled by what they did in China, and what the Nazis did in the east. F*ing hell... not an episode you really want to watch or make, but one that must not be forgotten. Thank you. On another very different note, even though it is not The Pacific; could you have a look at the German U-Boat campaign? Maybe Bill's opinion of Das Boot? It is so rare to have an actual Sub commander and expert have a look at it- he will know and understand things that we historians do not. Maybe a collab with Woody and/or Drach?
Funny you should mention the U-boats. Because the Kriegsmarine had sent U-boats and commerce raiders into the Pacific and Indian Oceans during the war.
As far as I can see, King wanted to take Formosa (later Taiwan). For his own reasons, Macarther wanted to return to the Philippines. I think King probably thought it would do a more perfect job of shutting off the strategic supplies from Indonesia et al. Strait of Taiwan would have been shut off that way. I think it almost as effective by taking the Philippines then laying in wait between Formosa and the home isles. When we went to the Philippines, we almost had too much help by the local population, especially at Lingayen gulf. Still a most decided advantage. Going to school at University of Houston, I ran into the woman I later Married. On our Honeymoon, we went to Kaohsiung , Taiwan. Her father showed me a family tree showing only the men and going back 600 years on Taiwan. They started out just across the strait somewhere. Her father showed me a picture of his Japanese school teacher with whom their class had just had a reunion. He seemed somewhat pro Japanese in that it seemed like they got along well. The population of Formosa at least would not have looked at the Americans as liberators like the philippinos did. I think Formosa would have been much more costly to take. I do not have any axe to grind in what I have said. It only represents surface thoughts I have been trying to figure out for a while.
The Dutch colonial rulers imported ethnic Chinese workers from Fujian. (Yes, Formosa was a Dutch colony before it became a Chinese colony). Formosa was assessed as being much harder to capture because of the very low number of suitable landing beaches in WW2 and was therefore bypassed.
Thank you for reconstructing the scenario of the horrific carnage that happened during the Liberation of Manila. This is thus far the most comprehensive and descriptive account of the unimaginable suffering experienced by my countrymen in what is arguably the darkest episode of our history. By reimagining in lurid details the fear that pierced their soul in their final moments, we are compelled to pay homage to their suffering and sacrifice as an unbreakable reminder about the senselessness of war and the evil that can be unleashed when man is captured by his demonic instincts. As a child growing up in Malate and Ermita districts I roamed through those neighborhoods where massacres were cruelly carried out but had no clue about the massive bloodletting in those grounds, except possibly about the mass murder in Malate Church. I plan to trace my footsteps precisely along those sites and pray for peace of the departed. Looking forward to reading the book. Saludo po sa inyo !!
Percival was a" Coronel Blimp"" type character. The British always had an idea that their best and brightest were slaughtered on the battlefields of France.during the First World War. They had the cartoon character of the dimwitted military officer who can never see the bigger picture because he is lost in the minutiae of rules.
And retreating from Malaya to Singapore. The British and Commonwealth forces couldn't attack the spent under supplied Japs from Singapore. All the water for Singapore came from Malaya. The British blew the causeway and water pipes, leaving themselves and civilians relying on rain. Australian General Bennett was scathing of Percival. Bennett was criticised for escaping and abandoning his men and never saw action again.
OK, afterwards, would you consider tacking an episode dedicated to the philosophical underpinnings of the IJA and IJN ? Bushido and Shinto are just words the the majority of us but appear to be malleable visions in different hands and at different times.
Seth, Captain Toti, thank you for your excellent presentation and superb guest. Tragic and sad history, this needs to be taught and discussed. You unpacked and handled this horrible history as well as possible. Thanks, you're appreciated.
I grew up in the 1970s and always loved talking to veterans of the war, any war. When I started to visit the Philippines in 2004 (moved here after retirement in 2018), I initially kept this habit, anxious to hear stories from the war here. I quickly stopped asking. The memories were horrific to hear and elderly women, especially, were visibly shaken by remembering those days. A dark time here. Unbelievable what they witnessed and experienced. Teachers and the principal of an elementary school being executed in front of school children, and their bodies being dumped into the well used by the whole community - and this was the first week of occupation. This was one of the milder stories. The guerrilla movement was very early in forming.
Now, seeing another book on the massacre in Manila - Rampage, I thought oh no, I won't read about that again. However, this podcast has brought out many more things about the massacre and the aftermath. Maybe I should read Rampage. But take care not to develop PTSD, even if a little bit. It is important to know, to remember and see that this can happen again, is happening again. Oh humanity, you are a beast.
I just realized James works at the Citadel!! My old National Guard unit was on the Citadel campus, or i guess across the street , inside the football stadium. 218/MEB. Thanks again guys. Yall are having conversations that will be studied in 100 years.
Thank you gentlemen. As difficult as this was, I am glad I have an understanding of what happened. I really did not know much of any of this. The closest thing to this horrific story that I have read was the story of the Rwandan genocide, Shake Hands With the Devil. Perhaps the Cambodian genocide. I am not as well read on that topic.
Its great to constantly have such wide ranging views on the war. Unlike many shows, it's refreshing to not be stuck in an echo chamber of group think and conformation bias. Good job.
From the little i know about the fall and occupation of singapore...it would be another harrowing episode to deal with..but i think these stories have to be told
Manila used to be the Paris of the Orient. My dad said when he was a child, walking on the sidewalks, the foreigners outnumbered the locals in a 3 to 1 ratio.
Thanks to all three of you for refusing to brush past this revolting topic. However, I do disagree that we shouldn't seek to understand "Why?". If we don't, we can fall into the same trap that a Japanese soldier was in during that time. I think there could be several reasons: Nationalism, Racial Superiority, Blind Rage, Terrorism etc. Around the world, lots of people perpetrate or live under this conditions every day. But kindly disagreeing further, I see a danger in saying that we are qualitatively better and different than animals. If anyone respects the Bible, we see how revolting we can be to others when our survival is at stake (eg Deuteronomy 28:52-59). And for atheists, this is Dawkin's Selfish Gene. I do agree with Seth that, at some point, you just have to say "No, I'm not going to do that." Like many in Nazi Germany (and I'm afraid, many in the US soon), they choose to suffer death via Concentration Camp rather than compromise what we should recognize as humanity.
Thank you. This series has filled in some very important gaps in the stories my father told me about his time in WWII. I have figured out that he was one of the few marines in the Philippines, and I know he was there in 44-45. He was 15 years-old when he arrived (he lied about his age). Which basically means he told me just enophe to know he did not want to talk about it. He would always change the subject to some humorous antidote, rather than say much of significance when I asked him about it.
Thank you for the great historical series.. Tackling this subject is tough but necessary.I'm not squeamish but I haven't been able to view this episode in one sitting. Man's inhumanity to man is incomprehensible.
Just a very distant side note speaking of legacy homes. During my assignment to Clark AB (Fort Stotsenburg) in the Philippines (1980-1984) I lived in one of the old wooden homes (1976 Wint Ave). The house was originally 4 rooms with ceilings that appeared to be about 12' extending to15' at the center. The house had large screened in porches on 3 sides. the central rooms had wooden shutters and not a single pane of glass any where in the structure. The house was about 4' above the ground on pilings. No air conditioning but quite cool due to convection air flow. I walked under the house and found a burned brand on a red wood foundation beam indicated a location in Oregon in 1904.
Just wanted to say that your episodes on McArthur & the Philippines have given me a new perspective on the General. My opinion on Mac as a general and leader of men still isn’t very high but it’s become pretty clear to me that he wasn’t JUST a monumental egotist whose three favorite people were me, myself & I. “Dug-out Doug” was many things, many of them not good. But McArthur was NOT the coward many historians would have us believe, and his obsession with retaking the Philippines wasn’t JUST a quest to restore his wounded pride. Mac wanted to reclaim the place he’d come to think of as home & rescue (or at least avenge) the soldiers and civilians who’d been left behind when he was whisked to safety.
Scott spoke to that very dynamic during the podcast. There is no doubt Mac's ego was a contributing factor but this time his ego WAS in line with US interests. The Philippines were too symbolic to be bypassed. The US had too much skin in the game there. Too many allies (guerillas) and political ties. Too much history. Too many POWs. Too many Internees. Too much free press....who would've crucified any Administration that green lit permanently abandoning an ally and the soldiers of Corregidor/Bataan & civilians because most if not all those captives would've perished. Doesnt matter if King and Formosa was the right move strategically. It just wasnt politically possible to bypass the PI given what was and had already taken place there and the publicity it received. Only Stalin had the political tyranny to pull off a move like that without repercussions. And even that murdering bastard understood the power of symbolism....which is why he too drew his line in the sand vs Nazis at the city that bore his name.
Tough episode to do. But I'm glad you have done it. Most people don't know or have ever heard about the viscous actions of the Japanese from 1931 to 1945. To quote another smart guy It's History that needs to be remembered. Thanks Bill, Seth and James.
What a great show. Since I found this show I filter all other shows through your teachings. The only problem is I don’t know if I will ever get through all the books I have to read. I hope you guys keep going including the ETO.
James Scott is an expert on this. Spent years researching and archiving his findings. Even now you can see the pain in his eyes, telling about it, Horrible stuff, grateful you told the story.
According to an audiobook I've been listening to, the antagonisms between the Japanese army and navy dates back to before 1900, when the navy was controlled by one clan, and the army was controlled by another clan. It would be informative for a modern historian to investigate this idea.
@@sulevisydanmaa9981 , I believe it's this book. Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy ... By David C. Evans, David Peattie
I still have family in Manila who remember. Filipinos are the most loving people on the planet. You'll forgive me if I skip this episode. Sometimes history is too hard to bear.
Really excellent. It is gruesome but, I've found over a lifetime of reading about WWII, that this theater is one of the most interesting because of the incredible quantity of reports of witnesses and victims who survived A history that lives in my memory is the book, "They Fought Alone," about the history of Wendell Fertig's guerilla movement in Mindinao; equally ugly. The learning is worth the discussion!
The sad fact is that in Japan there are large and powerful political factions that deny any of this ever happened. Shinzo Abe was one of them. And because of that this isn't taught in Japanese schools.
@@dangarrett8676 The sadder fact is that there are thousands of American troops still in Japan, especially in Okinawa where the residents want them gone.
Quote> If there is one lesson to be learnt from all this, then that lesson is also a warning - human beings take considerably more of their ethical values from the particular system they happen to be in at the time than you would ever have thought possible. Laurence Rees - “Horror in the East - Japan and the Atrocities of World War II”
We all have our true north when we were born. We just ignore/suppress it or just ignorantly knew no other values except those we were programmed with to conform to our tribe.
@@keithrosenberg5486 We have both. It's the duality of our nature. One is just enhanced by natural and/or supernatural circumstances. We can't smell our own stench, thinking we are living enlightened lives.
@@litog888 If most Russians were happy with Herr Putin, the oppression that is the Russian government today would not exist. Revolutions happen in a heartbeat, so to speak.
I have stood in the spot at current US Embassy Manilla where General Yamashita was tried and convicted for these crimes. The weight of these proceedings can still be perceived. The Chancery still wears some scars from the preceding combat
this is what comes of societies that accept ideas that they are above, and others are therefore less than. humans can be so grand and yet so disappointing.............
This was an especially interesting video since I read "Rapage" a year ago while in Manila. In that trip we visited Fort Drum ( The Concrete Battleship) and I was hoping you did a video on it. What a fortification guarding Manila Bay with a fascinating history that deserves a video. Keep up the good work.
I was a young Marine in 1981 stationed at Nav/Com Capas Tarlac on Barracks Duty. This station was attached next to Camp Donald. I served as a guard that patrolled the antenna fields for the 7th fleet.. my Filipino constabulary guard with me told me of the atrocities he witnessed when he was a child at that prison camp. It wasn't uncommon and even into the 70s to find Japanese soldiers didn't know the war was over hiding in caves. If found the Filipino spared no mercy on them. The grounds at this prison camp still hold in bondage some of the souls lost there...Spirits are very real...many true stories I could tell...but more importantly is to expose the War Crimes the Japanese committed...
JOHN DOWER -author of WAR WITHOUT MERCY - the concept of race in the Pacific War (...or sth similar) ought to be interviewed on Mr Scott s newish book !! Sure would give a statement. His book is from around 1996, and has also another study EMBRACING DEFEAT - Jpn soon postwar etc. Got the latter 1, excellent. Has sev lectures on Yt. Kinda little-known compared w R.Frank a.o.
An incredibly important episode. I knew it was really going to de difficult for me to get through. I've watched most episode at least twice because I pick up something new each time I watch. I will not watch this one twice. And sadly like Manila date back to antiquity, there are a few in the Bible even. And they are happening even as I type this. Ukraine, Sudan, Gaza, Israel, Yemen, a new form in China. Recent past The breakup of Yugoslavia, Darfur, Ethiopia, Malawi, Syria, Libya. Plenty in the Indian Wars. I haven't even scratched the surface.
Filipina historian Carmen Guerrero Nakpil says that when the Americans liberated Manila they did not feel like welcoming victors and liberator. They had gone through so much suffering for 3 years under the Japanese occupation that in the end they just felt numb...
I have read "By Sword and Fire" by Alfonso Aluit way back in the late 1990's. It is about the massacre of Manila. It was such a difficult book to read; all this brutal, unbelievable, unspeakable, evil, 'creative' as the podcast described it) violence and massacre. I wanted to stop reading but at the same time I had the urge to know what else happened, who else was massacred, how, where. I couldn't sleep well for two nights after reading the book. No other book has given me a bit of PTSD
Just started listening to your podcast on Spotify during work. Wasn't sure how I would like it, but I've slowly fallen in love with the "bar-room" conversations. I posed a question in one of your older videos on leaders in 1943/1944, but I figured it wouldn't be seen so I'll pose it here. Is it true that during WWI, Douglas MacArthur was given an order by his commander Charles Summerall before the battle of Cote de Chatillon to take Cote de Chatillon or bring back a list of 5K casualties? If so, do you think that this could shed light on how Mac interacted with his subordinate officers since he received similar treatment during WWI and came out a hero of the Rainbow Division? Apologies if this isn't in your wheelhouse.
Bill Toti's comment about how it could happen again is so true. I think it might be worth learning a bit about the Shinto and Buddhist religions, which might or might not provide some additional insight into Japanese behavior.
Our (Former) President Elpidio Quirino, lost his wife and all his children except one during the Battle of Manila. When he assumed the Presidency his daughter was his First Lady.
There are numerous Catholic Educational Institutions still running post WWII in the Philippenes. St. Paul University Phillipenes are still associated with and run by the same order that founded the institution in 1907. So yes its still rolling ladies add gentlemen. Despite efforts to stop them from doing so. This was a tough podcast as you statted last week, but im quite happy you covered this nasty topic. Thanks a ton gents, nothing but a quality podcast, well minus the occasional mind twisting shirt and/or wallpaper. Thank you again.
Many thanks for taking the time and the trouble to educate us on these matters. Perhaps the apologists for Hiroshima and Nagasaki should study, in fine detail, these matters; as well as the rape of Nanking and the many other Japanese atrocities.
It's easier to say this than it is to do it, but this is not an episode to be turned away from. This episode requires one to stand strong and face a terrible reality. This is not something to be swept under the rug and be forgotten. I have nothing but great respect for James Scott in the manner in which he brings this horrible event to the reader and in this case, the viewer. As hard as it is for the reader or viewer, imagine how hard it must have been for Mr. Scott to compile this information. For his efforts I look at him as a hero for not letting the people who perished be forgotten. Never Forget 💝🎗️.
Gentlemen,
This episode recounts one of the darker chapters from the Second World War. However, it makes an important contribution to educating contemporary viewers about the darkness that can descend upon 'civilized' societies anytime we lose sight of our common humanity. Thank you for your steadfast efforts to entertain, educate and inform the masses..
V/r - IB
Footnote - On the importance of historical rememberance: “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” [George Santayana, "The Life of Reason" (1905)]
NOT HIS COPY F I G H T ..."The past is prologue" is as ancient as this crummy murder-torn-the-killuminati-run SCHACKLE of a world ...Santayana is azily beaten by EMERSON, SPENGLER & TOYNBEE - what a quartet ...add BURCKHARDT - u get a quintet.
I had a co-worker in the US Army in mid-80s who was in the battle of Manila, another who was a Filipino in the inland resistance, and a cousin in the Bataan death march. All related about terrible atrocities by the Japanese.
Maybe the fire bombing of Tokyo had something to do with that.
@@redwater4778 The Japanese atrocities mostly predated the firebombing of Tokyo.
@@roelmendoza7638 It happened before the Bataan thing . Also those US troops were given chances to surrender but do not until they ran out of bullets.
@@redwater4778the Bataan resistance and death march definitely happened before the firebombing of Tokyo
@@Legion_YT_ nope
Presentations like this are new to me. For an old guy like me it's like rediscovering the invention of radio and television, all in one medum. Unlike modern television you really have to listen and pay attention. 10 out of 10 for providing a rivetting, infomative experience.
My dad, who was 15 years old in 1945 and lived in Paco, Manila during WW2, told me the same harrowing stories of Japanese atrocities. He told me that he and his family hid under the Philippine General Hospital during the battle of Manila. He contrasted the absolute sadism of the Japanese with the bravery of individual American soldiers, who he characterized as wanting to clear the city of Japanese as soon as possible because they knew how much the civilians were suffering.
Thank you for bringing this history into the openness. It was tough to watch, though.
I was 15 in 1945. I grew up during World War II. I went to the movies every week. Saw all the war movies. Kept abreast of the war mainly the Pacific war. Your podcasts about the Pacific is the best. Hopefully young America of today will know who America was and is. I lost my neighbor recently. He was a marine on Iwo Jima in 1945. He survived, came home, discharged before he was 19. America performed the magnificent from 1941 to 1945. Thank You
My father served on the War Crimes Tribunal in Morotai after the war. He would never speak of it to me (a child when he died). He was extremely cross when he found I had climbed the bookcases and taken down Lord Birkenhead’s book “Knights of Bushido”.
I have a copy of a magazine article in which he told of one of the trials, the execution, on a small bypassed island, of 4 POWs at the end of the war on the orders of Tokyo. The local commander who seemed to have treated the captives comparatively well pointed out the lack of difficulty for the garrison and the order was affirmed more strongly.
After the war, he would never buy a Japanese made item.
Musta not been a jazz fan : the reissue legacy of Jpn companies of the OOP U.S. classics IS STELLAR since mid 70s onwards. I know, I m a hardbop devotee 🇫🇮 (nevuhh judgea book by its cover ...).
My mother who is now 89 told us a lot of stories about the Liberation.
I don't remember any of you mentioning that the north bank of the Pasig River was largely spared of destruction while the opposite bank bore the brunt of the room to room fighting.
There's a couple massacres that weren't mentioned namely the one in St. Paul's College across the Philippine General Hospital and the other in De La Salle College, where majority of the De La Salle Brothers, along with several members of prominent families in Manila were either shot, stabbed or their throats slit. We have a family friend who survived that massacre and he was 4 yrs old at that time. He remembered staring at a Japanese soldier who was about the stab him with a bayonet when one of the Brothers stepped in front and got stabbed as a result. The Brother fell on top of him and he had to play dead for around 2 days before he eventually was rescued.
Seth, Bill, James
Thankyou guys
If I could make some recommendations about the 1945 season, could you do an episode on British Pacific Fleet, their history, operations and contributions etc. It would be nice to bring the naval historian Dr. Alexander Clarke or Drachinifel.
That actually sounds like a pleasant episode. The British in the Pacific is a subject I'm not too educated on!
I wonder if Seth and Bill will do a separate season, or maybe seasons, on the British in the Pacific since they seem interested in doing a lot with the CBI aspect the Pacific instead of simply an episode of two. I'd love to see them cover it in a season.
Excellent idea! Seth & Bill have done some terrific collabs with Drach. Dr. Clarke is a superb historian but he does his best work on his own, I think.
Even if i like Drachinifel, and not to dismiss the fight of theses braves soldiers and sailors, it was nonetheless a side show to help bring back the bruised prestige of the former empire
One of the great historo-sociological problems of this story is examining the transition of the Japanese armed forces after the First World War to their savage "nature" in WWII. In the first war, and especially in the Russo-Japanese war, while the Japanese troops were just as fanatical in taking casualties to achieve their objectives as they ever would be, they were also noted for their courtesy to defeated enemies; they exemplified much of the positive images of the samurai. It was only in the 1930's and 40's, starting with the treatment of the Chinese civilian population, that the horrific vision of the treatment of non-Japanese became common and evident. Why this change occurred is a subject of considerable debate in many countries.
Indoctrination since youth from militarists that seized power in Japan in the 20s and 30s.
Would I be amiss in thinking that this military coup I hear happened sometime in the 1930s had a lot to do with the Japanese succumbing to the worse demons of their nature? I mean, the extremists behind the coup actually thought that Yamamoto -- the same Yamamoto who planned the Pearl Harbor attack -- wasn't warlike enough, which they saw as tantamount to treason!
Horseshit and horseshit. Ask any Korean. They know the history of the Japanese on their peninsula going back to the late nineteenth century. The brutality of the IJA was every bit as heinous then. The Japanese Army was a terrible army in the classical sense to all non-white opponents up until WWII. From then on they removed the other half of the mask. Please read a book.
@@stuartwald2395
It’s their nature
a hated of anything not Japanese can be seen today to one extent or another
Unlike Germany, who made reparations and formal apologies for the atrocities they committed during the war, Japan has never taken ownership of what their Armed Forces did during World War II. In fact, in Japanese schools, they don't even reference World War ii, not even Pearl Harbor. So in Japan, they seem to have this Collective Societal Amnesia about what their Armed Forces did during World War II. And for that, I have a hard time with the Japanese. My parents were both veterans of World War ii, my father serving with the US Navy in the South Pacific. So in our household growing up there was nothing Japanese in our house. If it was made in Japan, it was not purchased. In fact when I got my first car at 17, my father bought it for me and he specifically said that there will never be any of those quote un quote Japanese rice burners in our house. While I didn't share my father's hatred of the Japanese, I could certainly understand it due to what he had experienced during the war. Thank you for dealing with this hard topic today with the respect and reverence that at deserves.🙏🇺🇲⚓️💯💖
@@Jakal-pw8yq Japan has apologized several times to China, Korea and the Philippines. They settled reparation claims from both the Philippines and South Korea. China refused reparations, but received over 30 billion dollars in economic aid and 140 billion dollars in loans. I would say Japan has done enough.
My Uncle Kenneth was the same way. Nothing made in Japan in his house or anywhere else.
Its always best to treat people on a case by case basis. Like.... i just had 2 bad experiences in a row with 2 single mothers but i know not all single Moms are rotten.
Ive gone through phases. I remember in high-school i was mean to people i should not have been mean to. They weren't even Japanese they were Chinese.... but me being shallow and slightly racist i saw "ww2 Japanese soldiers" youngs dudes in high-school. Horrible behavior. Now i really admire Japan and the Japanese people. Im mesmerized by how dense and beautiful and rich that culture is. The bladesmiths and sumo and martial arts and archery and swordsmanship... so much high culture....but it's been a long process of identifying what my inner principles are and identifying logical inconsistencies in my worldview.
No family nights at Benihana's?
@@joeyartk Its more than an apology and reparations needed. Jpan will always make a big deal about the horror of the Atomic bombs, but then refuse to mention in their history books in school their responsibility for initiating a war of aggression, the atrocities they committed that brought about such a response to a nation that just would not surrender, but would employ starving old men, women, and children to fight on the beaches with bamboo spears and IED's, for the sake of "honor". I wonder if the majority of Japanese have any idea of the breath the depth of their nations former war crimes.
I am from the Philippinnes. It is a matter of fact that there were no families who lived in Manila at that time (rich or poor) who did not have at least one relative who was killed in the battle of Manila. The Japanese were mostly high on shabu (Crack) and were extremely brutal. My uncles who were with Ramsey's Guerillas and joined-in with the American forces coming from the north into the city, were so disgusted of the Japanese that it took them until 1969 that they were able to look at a Japanese man without thinking of wanting to kill him.
I read the rape of nanking many many years ago by a female writer,it took me a long time to read due to its ferocity violence and having the human senses battered.
It beggars belief.
I dont know whether i can bring myself to read the other books about military atrocities that you talk about.
Thank you for your great podcast.
🇬🇧
My grandma was a comfort woman for the Japanese she said she lived good just she was very sore
80 years later we Filipinos have made Japan our friend. But I wish this part of their history of atrocity would be included in their history books also. I have met a lot of good Japanese who have no idea whatsoever of this part of their past as they only consider themselves victims of the atomic bomb. Nothing like looking at truth in the eye, acknowledging that we can be both victims and perpetrators of war crimes. That's what it means to be a human being. The Japanese suffer from a self-imposed amnesia.
All cultures can be brutal. The makeup of some cultures make them more vulnerable to be led down bad paths by the leaders. Has you stated young Japanese are unaware of the atrocities of world war II that the Japanese people committed. Is all the Japanese people are doing very well groupism can still be a problem if the new leader comes along and directs the people down a path which will lead to hardship and destruction. I like the young Japanese that I see but of course I have learned that they know little of the behavior of Japanese soldiers during world war II.
I spent many yrs in & out of the Philippines, 85' - 2011, and I was sad - how many younger Filipinos had very little knowledge of their WWll history w/ the Japanese (sorry) ..
“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
In that spirit, thank you gentlemen for covering the Battle of Manila.
One of the adoption trips our family took to China, we encountered a Japanese deligation that had planned to build a business relationship with the Chinese. There was a huge protest as the Japanese would never acknowledge the atrocities that were committed in WWII, nor apologize for anything.
@@denniswiemer72 and why should they? It’s a business deal. Are the Japanese supposed to get on their knees every time they encounter Chinese?
It is impressive the expanding list of colleagues appearing on these episodes. 'Rampage' is an amazing read, a necessary read. Must understand history so we as people do not make the same mistakes again. Thank you James. Seth and Bill.
@@MrFrikkenfrakken Isn't the same thing going on right now in the holy land? Financed by the USA on top of it.
@@joeyartk The US funded Hamas?
@@joeyartk My opinion is no.
@@MrFrikkenfrakken Thank God somebody on here has an opinion and acknowledges he isn't the all knowing bearer of the one truth.👍
@@joeyartk Like you?
I have Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese friends who as children were told about how bad the Japanese were.
There are a still a fair number of living Asians with memories of Japan’s WWII depredations.
We in the west have memory holed this history. We prefer not to think about it while embracing guilt for the nuclear bombing of Japan.
I am tearing up and sobbing for the Philippines.
My grandfather was in the US Army in WWII. He was in Manila during and after the battle. He talked very little of the war, but one time he just opened up and spoke about the Japanese atrocities he saw in Manila. Absolutely horrific.
"Rampage" is legitimately hard to read. I think it's important, though. I don't know if you can understand the Pacific war (and the Asian mainland) without understanding that stuff like this, and like Nanking, were just larger pieces of common IJA behavior.
IJN !!!
I can remender when i came home from the service ,I ask my dad how he dealt with what he had done in ww2 , his answer was booze, and that was my out .... when dad would see a japanese person you could see the hatered in his eyes... I know why now ... that you for the great account, ... God bless
I had a high school classmate who's father was one of the survivors of the POW camp that was chronicled in Hampton Sides's book, "Ghost Soldiers". If Roosevelt had sided with Nimitz's war plan that classmate wouldn't have existed. Sides discusses the U.S. intelligence intercepts of Japanese radio traffic that was being sent to Japanese forces in the Pacific regarding executing all war prisoners.
Scott's book "Rampage" is vicious, man. Absolutely NOT for the faint of heart but absolutely a truth that needs to be told. It just wrecks you and makes you want to go back in time and go Rambo on the perpetrators. Not only that, but I think it also made my neighborhood think I'm a deranged lunatic because I got the audio book version and listened to it while doing my nightly walks and usually I dont say a word listening to other books/podcasts but this one I'm belting out loud "OMFG!" "Jeeeesus Christ!" and "Noooooooooo!" lol You just want the good guys to show up and save the day......and it just doesnt happen in time to spare or save them. 💯
That book is legitimately hard to read.
@@josepetersen7112
Seconded
This book was a brutal read. I had to put it down on several occasions. I felt as though I owed it to the victims and survivors of the events to finish it. I am so glad I did and am very grateful to have that perspective to appreciate this episode.
And practically NOBODY in Japan knows this happened.
They don't have the courage to face reality. I've lost a lot of respect for the Japanese people and "culture".
@@mlovmo I guarantee Japanese know their history better than the average American knows theirs.
@@joeyartk: I am currently living in Japan and have lived here for over 20 years. I can assure you that they DON'T.
A friend lived there for a few years in the 2000's, and he said the EXACT same thing. He was astounded at the general ignorance of WEII.@bufoferrata3205
@@bufoferrata3205 You must not be aware of the current state of education in the US then.
Great episode. Horroble topic but you guys did a respectful job.
52:13 "counting skulls", this immediately put me in mind of Richard Franks' book on the early part of the Japanese war, "Tower of Skulls".
@@kemarisite Wasnt their a Life magazine cover in 1944 with a picture of a young woman looking at the skull of a Japanese soldier her boyfriend sent her from the Pacific?
@@joeyartk Someone who is too stupid to know the difference between they're, there and their is too stupid to engage in adult conversation. Excusing Japanese atrocities shows you have no morals whatsoever.
Thanks Guys, everyone needs this, specially those that have forgotten, just started watching, this is going to be hard to make it thru, I know Y-T isn't going to fund this one.
I was in the Philippines in the 1980s. I loved the people! I wish I had known all of this before I went!
This is going to be dark. Only rivalled by what they did in China, and what the Nazis did in the east. F*ing hell... not an episode you really want to watch or make, but one that must not be forgotten.
Thank you.
On another very different note, even though it is not The Pacific; could you have a look at the German U-Boat campaign? Maybe Bill's opinion of Das Boot? It is so rare to have an actual Sub commander and expert have a look at it- he will know and understand things that we historians do not. Maybe a collab with Woody and/or Drach?
Funny you should mention the U-boats. Because the Kriegsmarine had sent U-boats and commerce raiders into the Pacific and Indian Oceans during the war.
@@ph89787 eh yes. That is well known.
As far as I can see, King wanted to take Formosa (later Taiwan). For his own reasons, Macarther wanted to return to the Philippines. I think King probably thought it would do a more perfect job of shutting off the strategic supplies from Indonesia et al. Strait of Taiwan would have been shut off that way. I think it almost as effective by taking the Philippines then laying in wait between Formosa and the home isles. When we went to the Philippines, we almost had too much help by the local population, especially at Lingayen gulf. Still a most decided advantage. Going to school at University of Houston, I ran into the woman I later Married. On our Honeymoon, we went to Kaohsiung , Taiwan. Her father showed me a family tree showing only the men and going back 600 years on Taiwan. They started out just across the strait somewhere. Her father showed me a picture of his Japanese school teacher with whom their class had just had a reunion. He seemed somewhat pro Japanese in that it seemed like they got along well. The population of Formosa at least would not have looked at the Americans as liberators like the philippinos did. I think Formosa would have been much more costly to take. I do not have any axe to grind in what I have said. It only represents surface thoughts I have been trying to figure out for a while.
The Dutch colonial rulers imported ethnic Chinese workers from Fujian. (Yes, Formosa was a Dutch colony before it became a Chinese colony).
Formosa was assessed as being much harder to capture because of the very low number of suitable landing beaches in WW2 and was therefore bypassed.
Thank you for reconstructing the scenario of the horrific carnage that happened during the Liberation of Manila. This is thus far the most comprehensive and descriptive account of the unimaginable suffering experienced by my countrymen in what is arguably the darkest episode of our history. By reimagining in lurid details the fear that pierced their soul in their final moments, we are compelled to pay homage to their suffering and sacrifice as an unbreakable reminder about the senselessness of war and the evil that can be unleashed when man is captured by his demonic instincts. As a child growing up in Malate and Ermita districts I roamed through those neighborhoods where massacres were cruelly carried out but had no clue about the massive bloodletting in those grounds, except possibly about the mass murder in Malate Church. I plan to trace my footsteps precisely along those sites and pray for peace of the departed. Looking forward to reading the book. Saludo po sa inyo !!
Thanks guys 👍
Another fantastic discussion.
From Australia 🦘 thanks.
12:35. Wasn't Yamashita almost out of supplies when he took Singapore and essentially had to bluff Percival (the British General) into surrendering?
Percival was a" Coronel Blimp"" type character. The British always had an idea that their best and brightest were slaughtered on the battlefields of France.during the First World War. They had the cartoon character of the dimwitted military officer who can never see the bigger picture because he is lost in the minutiae of rules.
Air supremacy and the destruction of the water reservoirs had alot to do with it as well...
And retreating from Malaya to Singapore. The British and Commonwealth forces couldn't attack the spent under supplied Japs from Singapore. All the water for Singapore came from Malaya. The British blew the causeway and water pipes, leaving themselves and civilians relying on rain. Australian General Bennett was scathing of Percival. Bennett was criticised for escaping and abandoning his men and never saw action again.
OK, afterwards, would you consider tacking an episode dedicated to the philosophical underpinnings of the IJA and IJN ? Bushido and Shinto are just words the the majority of us but appear to be malleable visions in different hands and at different times.
Seth, Captain Toti, thank you for your excellent presentation and superb guest. Tragic and sad history, this needs to be taught and discussed. You unpacked and handled this horrible history as well as possible. Thanks, you're appreciated.
I grew up in the 1970s and always loved talking to veterans of the war, any war. When I started to visit the Philippines in 2004 (moved here after retirement in 2018), I initially kept this habit, anxious to hear stories from the war here. I quickly stopped asking. The memories were horrific to hear and elderly women, especially, were visibly shaken by remembering those days. A dark time here. Unbelievable what they witnessed and experienced. Teachers and the principal of an elementary school being executed in front of school children, and their bodies being dumped into the well used by the whole community - and this was the first week of occupation. This was one of the milder stories. The guerrilla movement was very early in forming.
Now, seeing another book on the massacre in Manila - Rampage, I thought oh no, I won't read about that again. However, this podcast has brought out many more things about the massacre and the aftermath. Maybe I should read Rampage. But take care not to develop PTSD, even if a little bit. It is important to know, to remember and see that this can happen again, is happening again. Oh humanity, you are a beast.
Excellent book, read it a few years ago. First detailed account of how horrific the Japanese were towards the poor Filipinos that I had ever read.
I just realized James works at the Citadel!! My old National Guard unit was on the Citadel campus, or i guess across the street , inside the football stadium. 218/MEB.
Thanks again guys. Yall are having conversations that will be studied in 100 years.
Thank you gentlemen. As difficult as this was, I am glad I have an understanding of what happened. I really did not know much of any of this. The closest thing to this horrific story that I have read was the story of the Rwandan genocide, Shake Hands With the Devil. Perhaps the Cambodian genocide. I am not as well read on that topic.
Excellent show, very hard subject to talk about not for breakfast conversation, a necessary but tragic conversation .
Not For Night Conversation.
Its great to constantly have such wide ranging views on the war. Unlike many shows, it's refreshing to not be stuck in an echo chamber of group think and conformation bias. Good job.
My Dad helped build the airfields on Peleliu, New Georgia and Guadalcanal. He was in the 73rd Seabees , Charlie company.
Incredibly difficult to listen to, but a very well done episode
Great show gentlemen.
From the little i know about the fall and occupation of singapore...it would be another harrowing episode to deal with..but i think these stories have to be told
Manila used to be the Paris of the Orient. My dad said when he was a child, walking on the sidewalks, the foreigners outnumbered the locals in a 3 to 1 ratio.
P 1:43:22 Thanks for a difficult to watch episode that must have been heartbreaking to research!
Mr. Scott's book was an amazing , awful read , the writing was terrific , the facts of the battle horrific ...such a sad, sad story .
Thanks to all three of you for refusing to brush past this revolting topic. However, I do disagree that we shouldn't seek to understand "Why?". If we don't, we can fall into the same trap that a Japanese soldier was in during that time. I think there could be several reasons: Nationalism, Racial Superiority, Blind Rage, Terrorism etc. Around the world, lots of people perpetrate or live under this conditions every day.
But kindly disagreeing further, I see a danger in saying that we are qualitatively better and different than animals. If anyone respects the Bible, we see how revolting we can be to others when our survival is at stake (eg Deuteronomy 28:52-59). And for atheists, this is Dawkin's Selfish Gene.
I do agree with Seth that, at some point, you just have to say "No, I'm not going to do that." Like many in Nazi Germany (and I'm afraid, many in the US soon), they choose to suffer death via Concentration Camp rather than compromise what we should recognize as humanity.
Thank you. This series has filled in some very important gaps in the stories my father told me about his time in WWII. I have figured out that he was one of the few marines in the Philippines, and I know he was there in 44-45. He was 15 years-old when he arrived (he lied about his age). Which basically means he told me just enophe to know he did not want to talk about it. He would always change the subject to some humorous antidote, rather than say much of significance when I asked him about it.
Great book.
Another great Episode Gents! I know James personally and its nice that you have an episode with him.
Thank you for the great historical series.. Tackling this subject is tough but necessary.I'm not squeamish but I haven't been able to view this episode in one sitting. Man's inhumanity to man is incomprehensible.
Just a very distant side note speaking of legacy homes. During my assignment to Clark AB (Fort Stotsenburg) in the Philippines (1980-1984) I lived in one of the old wooden homes (1976 Wint Ave). The house was originally 4 rooms with ceilings that appeared to be about 12' extending to15' at the center. The house had large screened in porches on 3 sides. the central rooms had wooden shutters and not a single pane of glass any where in the structure. The house was about 4' above the ground on pilings. No air conditioning but quite cool due to convection air flow. I walked under the house and found a burned brand on a red wood foundation beam indicated a location in Oregon in 1904.
Just wanted to say that your episodes on McArthur & the Philippines have given me a new perspective on the General. My opinion on Mac as a general and leader of men still isn’t very high but it’s become pretty clear to me that he wasn’t JUST a monumental egotist whose three favorite people were me, myself & I.
“Dug-out Doug” was many things, many of them not good. But McArthur was NOT the coward many historians would have us believe, and his obsession with retaking the Philippines wasn’t JUST a quest to restore his wounded pride. Mac wanted to reclaim the place he’d come to think of as home & rescue (or at least avenge) the soldiers and civilians who’d been left behind when he was whisked to safety.
Scott spoke to that very dynamic during the podcast. There is no doubt Mac's ego was a contributing factor but this time his ego WAS in line with US interests. The Philippines were too symbolic to be bypassed. The US had too much skin in the game there. Too many allies (guerillas) and political ties. Too much history. Too many POWs. Too many Internees. Too much free press....who would've crucified any Administration that green lit permanently abandoning an ally and the soldiers of Corregidor/Bataan & civilians because most if not all those captives would've perished. Doesnt matter if King and Formosa was the right move strategically. It just wasnt politically possible to bypass the PI given what was and had already taken place there and the publicity it received. Only Stalin had the political tyranny to pull off a move like that without repercussions. And even that murdering bastard understood the power of symbolism....which is why he too drew his line in the sand vs Nazis at the city that bore his name.
Fantastic discussion ! Thank you!
Tough episode to do. But I'm glad you have done it. Most people don't know or have ever heard about the viscous actions of the Japanese from 1931 to 1945. To quote another smart guy It's History that needs to be remembered. Thanks Bill, Seth and James.
Visited Fort Santiago and walked the dungeons last Oct 2023. The White Cross did not say a number but the Filipino's guards dressed as Spanish did .
What a great show. Since I found this show I filter all other shows through your teachings.
The only problem is I don’t know if I will ever get through all the books I have to read.
I hope you guys keep going including the ETO.
James Scott is an expert on this. Spent years researching and archiving his findings. Even now you can see the pain in his eyes, telling about it, Horrible stuff, grateful you told the story.
Thanks!
This was a difficult one. Thanks for facing it to bring the information to us.
Wow guys that was a rough one. I had very little knowledge about the Philippine campaign. Thanks for presenting it to us in unfortunate detail.
Definitely a tough episode...ordered James book....//
According to an audiobook I've been listening to, the antagonisms between the Japanese army and navy dates back to before 1900, when the navy was controlled by one clan, and the army was controlled by another clan. It would be informative for a modern historian to investigate this idea.
Name of the book ?
@@sulevisydanmaa9981 , I believe it's this book. Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy ...
By David C. Evans, David Peattie
I did not know,was not taught any thing about this in school. The crimes the Germans did we knew. But not much if anything about this.
Thank you very much for this. From the Philippines.
Great Show
I picked up Mr Scott’s book at the SM Mall here in San Fernando, Pampanga Philippines but I’m sad to say I haven’t read it yet.
Be prepared...you will question humans and God.
I still have family in Manila who remember. Filipinos are the most loving people on the planet. You'll forgive me if I skip this episode. Sometimes history is too hard to bear.
Tead the preface ro "Hostage to the Devil" by Malachi Martin. It directly relates to the Pacific theater
The fire bombing of Tokyo happened just a week or two later. Is there a connection between it and the atrocities in Manila?
Really excellent. It is gruesome but, I've found over a lifetime of reading about WWII, that this theater is one of the most interesting because of the incredible quantity of reports of witnesses and victims who survived A history that lives in my memory is the book, "They Fought Alone," about the history of Wendell Fertig's guerilla movement in Mindinao; equally ugly. The learning is worth the discussion!
I wonder if the book "Rampage" is translated into Japanese?
In Japan that title is probably a biography of Curtis Lemay.
The sad fact is that in Japan there are large and powerful political factions that deny any of this ever happened. Shinzo Abe was one of them. And because of that this isn't taught in Japanese schools.
@@dangarrett8676 The sadder fact is that there are thousands of American troops still in Japan, especially in Okinawa where the residents want them gone.
@@joeyartk that is a very different conversation
@@dangarrett8676 But related, since Abe was a big supporter of military alliance with America.
Quote> If there is one lesson to be learnt from all this, then that lesson is also a warning - human beings take considerably more of their ethical values from the particular system they happen to be in at the time than you would ever have thought possible.
Laurence Rees - “Horror in the East - Japan and the Atrocities of World War II”
We all have our true north when we were born. We just ignore/suppress it or just ignorantly knew no other values except those we were programmed with to conform to our tribe.
@@litog888 Some seem born to be evil and make the culture others follow..
@@keithrosenberg5486 We have both. It's the duality of our nature. One is just enhanced by natural and/or supernatural circumstances. We can't smell our own stench, thinking we are living enlightened lives.
@@litog888 If most Russians were happy with Herr Putin, the oppression that is the Russian government today would not exist. Revolutions happen in a heartbeat, so to speak.
I have stood in the spot at current US Embassy Manilla where General Yamashita was tried and convicted for these crimes. The weight of these proceedings can still be perceived. The Chancery still wears some scars from the preceding combat
Thank you all so much. It was have heavy topic but an amazing one.
this is what comes of societies that accept ideas that they are above, and others are therefore less than. humans can be so grand and yet so disappointing.............
This was an especially interesting video since I read "Rapage" a year ago while in Manila. In that trip we visited Fort Drum ( The Concrete Battleship) and I was hoping you did a video on it. What a fortification guarding Manila Bay with a fascinating history that deserves a video. Keep up the good work.
I was a young Marine in 1981 stationed at Nav/Com Capas Tarlac on Barracks Duty.
This station was attached next to Camp Donald. I served as a guard that patrolled the antenna fields for the 7th fleet.. my Filipino constabulary guard with me told me of the atrocities he witnessed when he was a child at that prison camp. It wasn't uncommon and even into the 70s to find Japanese soldiers didn't know the war was over hiding in caves. If found the Filipino spared no mercy on them. The grounds at this prison camp still hold in bondage some of the souls lost there...Spirits are very real...many true stories I could tell...but more importantly is to expose the War Crimes the Japanese committed...
JOHN DOWER -author of WAR WITHOUT MERCY - the concept of race in the Pacific War (...or sth similar) ought to be interviewed on Mr Scott s newish book !! Sure would give a statement. His book is from around 1996, and has also another study EMBRACING DEFEAT - Jpn soon postwar etc. Got the latter 1, excellent. Has sev lectures on Yt. Kinda little-known compared w R.Frank a.o.
Manila and Bougainville changed my father's life forever. He spent half his life trying not to think about it.
An incredibly important episode. I knew it was really going to de difficult for me to get through. I've watched most episode at least twice because I pick up something new each time I watch. I will not watch this one twice. And sadly like Manila date back to antiquity, there are a few in the Bible even. And they are happening even as I type this. Ukraine, Sudan, Gaza, Israel, Yemen, a new form in China. Recent past The breakup of Yugoslavia, Darfur, Ethiopia, Malawi, Syria, Libya. Plenty in the Indian Wars. I haven't even scratched the surface.
In from SC! Good evening all!
Filipina historian Carmen Guerrero Nakpil says that when the Americans liberated Manila they did not feel like welcoming victors and liberator. They had gone through so much suffering for 3 years under the Japanese occupation that in the end they just felt numb...
This was rugged to endure listening to. That said, very compelling of the devastation of those times. eek…. Great episode. S
I have read "By Sword and Fire" by Alfonso Aluit way back in the late 1990's. It is about the massacre of Manila. It was such a difficult book to read; all this brutal, unbelievable, unspeakable, evil, 'creative' as the podcast described it) violence and massacre. I wanted to stop reading but at the same time I had the urge to know what else happened, who else was massacred, how, where. I couldn't sleep well for two nights after reading the book. No other book has given me a bit of PTSD
Fort Santiago is an experience, especially if you are in tune with the environment. The same with Malinta tunnel on Corregidor.
Just started listening to your podcast on Spotify during work. Wasn't sure how I would like it, but I've slowly fallen in love with the "bar-room" conversations. I posed a question in one of your older videos on leaders in 1943/1944, but I figured it wouldn't be seen so I'll pose it here. Is it true that during WWI, Douglas MacArthur was given an order by his commander Charles Summerall before the battle of Cote de Chatillon to take Cote de Chatillon or bring back a list of 5K casualties? If so, do you think that this could shed light on how Mac interacted with his subordinate officers since he received similar treatment during WWI and came out a hero of the Rainbow Division? Apologies if this isn't in your wheelhouse.
Bill Toti's comment about how it could happen again is so true. I think it might be worth learning a bit about the Shinto and Buddhist religions, which might or might not provide some additional insight into Japanese behavior.
Our (Former) President Elpidio Quirino, lost his wife and all his children except one during the Battle of Manila. When he assumed the Presidency his daughter was his First Lady.
Thank you for this
Very sad history
There are numerous Catholic Educational Institutions still running post WWII in the Philippenes.
St. Paul University Phillipenes are still associated with and run by the same order that founded the institution in 1907.
So yes its still rolling ladies add gentlemen. Despite efforts to stop them from doing so.
This was a tough podcast as you statted last week, but im quite happy you covered this nasty topic.
Thanks a ton gents, nothing but a quality podcast, well minus the occasional mind twisting shirt and/or wallpaper.
Thank you again.
Has this book been printed in Japanese and sold in Japan? Has Japan paid war reoperations?
GUESS ...thrice
Many thanks for taking the time and the trouble to educate us on these matters. Perhaps the apologists for Hiroshima and Nagasaki should study, in fine detail, these matters; as well as the rape of Nanking and the many other Japanese atrocities.
My uncle was one of the first SeaBees. The other was a gunner on a tin can in the Pacific War protecting the fleets.