'It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.'
Thank you! I was going to post this as well! I can’t believe they didn’t mention this. Sam’s speech at the end is probably my favorite part of the movie and favorite lines in the trilogy
I just caught something now. the first time Frodo calls Gollum Smeagol, he replies, "What did you call me?" he's so shocked and surprised that he reverts back to 'me' instead of 'us'.
@@amandahuginkys7878 LOTR really are amazing movies. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a viewing, and yet after a hundred watchings they can still surprise you at a pinch.
@@JMel2012 Before the LOTR trilogy came along, cinematic adaptions of the books weren't very well thought of. Never had any live actions or did anything groundbreaking. What ever the trilogy did, they've been officially labeled a timeless masterpiece.
@@a_loyal_kiwi88 Yep, just look at the terrible track record of book adaptations before LOTR: (in no particular order) The Godfather, The French Connection, Interview With the Vampire, The Color Purple, Gone With the Wind, Doctor Zhivago, The Exorcist, Psycho, Jurassic Park, Silence of the Lambs, Forrest Gump, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, Shawshank Redemption, Goodfellas, Stand by Me, Misery, Schindler's List, the first Harry Potter movie that came out a month before FOTR... Should I continue? 😉
"The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time. Let this be the hour when we draw swords together. Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn!"
"Sauron was a pussycat compared to Morgoth." Definitely. Sauron commanded Orcs and Nazgul, Morgoth had legions of dragons, Balrogs, and many more unsavory beasts.
The ''legion of balrogs" thing was retconned by Tolkien in his letters because his early concept of what a balrog is was a lot lesser than what they eventually became. There were thus less than a dozen balrogs and probably only like four or five. Glaurung and Ancalagon were much more powerful than Smaug sure but Morgoth did not have very many of them and he only had flying dragons for one battle and he lost that one courtesy of Earendil and his flying boat. The unsavoury elements were Sauron's pets or, in the case of the spiders, weren't exactly allied to Morgoth.
@@laurie1183 wow, I didn't know that, concerning the Balrogs. Nevertheless, everything with Morgoth just seemed grander in scale, Sauron being a more limited version.
Tolkien realized that Morgoth would have won with legions of balrogs he turned it to like 7. 2 saying in Gondolin, many dying in the war of wrath, one to Gandalf, and a few others went to other mountains
"There is only one cut of the Lord Of The Rings, only one that can bend time to its will. And it does not share viewing with the theatrical." - Gandalf the based
The portrayal of Gollum in these movies has always been top notch. Even in the diverse Hobbit trilogy nobody complains about the scene with Gollum. But the one Gollum scene I remember is from the animated portrayal when Bilbo escapes him at the back door. I always think back to the delivery of the line and how perfect it captured the rage: “Thief! Thief Baggins! We hates it forever!”
I think the extended version does a lot for the Two Towers and I'd actually recommend that people watch it. Will add more comments later but I came by to say that I think its a bloody embarrassment and an absolute insult that Andy Serkis was not nominated for a best actor Oscar for his portrayal of Gollum. I actuall read that Peter Jackson campaigned really hard for it but the Oscar committee was too narrow minded and pedantic to allow it... Sad.
Although i agree with you, Andy is more competent that most oscar winners anyway and it shows. I cant name a single role he failed to deliver on, that kind of actor isn't about the accolades just the content and love of the job. I hope he is as good a director as he is an actor!
You guys got the Sauron bit wrong: the gay boyfriend and the sassy smarter sister are things to ruin heroes with. We'll find out, that Sauron wasn't really evil at all, he was just misunderstood, and there was a truly evil evil lord - I don't know, Larry, or something - from whom he enherited his tower, his cool armour, Mordor, the idea to make rings and even his orks (there'll be two bumbling orks following him around, commenting on how cool it would be to turn Saruman evil, or how Moria would make a nice home for a balrog, and s like that). You see, Sauron just wanted to save Middle Earth, and the heroes in Lord of the Rings were the real evil for killing him. Basically it'll be the Maleficent/Cruella-method all over again.
Technically Sauron was just following Morgoth but they both did horrible things. Morgoth destroyed the world as much as he could taking the 4 most powerful things out of existence. He also tortured elves so much they became orcs. Now Sauron was one of the people who joined Morgoth in the creation of the world in the music. He actually held Angband (Morgoth’s stronghold) when he was captive. He also did things like torturing men and killing elves with werewolves. Actually Sauron only made it to the second age as the Valar who commanded the army that took Morgoth didn’t have time to deal with him.
@@NathanCassidy721 two towers is personally my favorite but like az said, I watch it as one long story. It's hard to break it up into different movies, in my head.
I just had the opportunity to sit down and listen to this and the former stream on The Fellowship Of The Ring. Thing with me is, years and years ago, I was stuck in a horribly abusive relationship. The only time that I got any real solace when she was at work and I was home was by watching the Trilogy, as it was well done enough that I was sort of pulled out of my situation. Getting so engrossed in the movie made me forget where I was physically, mentally, emotionally.. I'm pretty damn sure it was the only thing that kept me from cramming a gun-barrel into my mouth and pulling the trigger, if we're being brutally honest. You're absolutely right in that the fans of the books and these movies are united. I loved sitting down and listening to you guys talk about how much you loved this movie and the others, I always enjoy the banter between all of you when you're together. You guys are awesome, keep up the amazing work. In large part because of this stream and the aforementioned one, I've gone ahead and re-ordered the Extended Edition Blu-Ray discs and this upcoming weekend will be the first time I'll have watched them since I got out of there. Thank you for reminding me as to why I love these movies.
When the rain starts at the beginning of helms deep . . . It starts clanking on the battle armor all around and that was hands down one of the coolest things . Gives me chills everytime .
In regards to helms deep with not firing arrows as soon they in range remember what Gandalf tells Aragorn (paraphrasing here) "first light on the fifth day look to the east". All they have to do is hold out until then and survive. It's not about winning here but delaying and surviving. So let the orcs do their intimidation and take their time as it's not about killing them but delaying and if they delay themselves even for only 10 more minutes so be it as you need all the time you can get.
@@Drawnartist I don't agree. You can't miss a target that size, and delaying them for a few more minutes wasn't going to make any difference. I'd deny them their intimidation, given that - as Theoden said - morale among the defenders was very fragile.
Man I freaking love Boromir. I also love Faramir's character, although I do prefer the book version of Faramir. Some people might say he was "too pure and good" but I think there can be at least a couple people in the world who don't just immediately give in to the Ring's power. That being said, it makes sense why they did things the way they did in the movie
I remember seeing Nerd of Rings’ video on it and I went, “Ah, I see what they are complaining about.” But I always felt the movie version, particularly the Extended Cut, gave us a relatable story of a man who overcame temptation and proved what it truly meant to be a good guy. His only flaw being a need to please his ungrateful father who loved him but never demonstrated it genuinely.
@@NathanCassidy721 Yes, and I also loved how the movie showed Faramir dealing with being constantly belittled and compared to his older brother. Those scenes with Boromir, Faramir and Denethor in Osgiliath give all three of them some extra character development. So yeah, the movies did an excellent job
1:27:30 I think the idea was to stall them as much as possible until Gandalf arrived. So if the Uruks want to waste time beating their chests and showboating, that's in the best interests of Rohan. That guy shooting that arrow and kickstarting the battle cost may have cost them the minutes they needed to hold the keep longer until Gandalf showed up. That's at least how I always interpreted it.
That scene between Data and Worf highlights the importance of the chain of command. The importance is that regardless of right or wrong the two senior command officer's must preserve the chain of command. Questions and gripes always got up the chain, never down. However... The first officer must express his concern, out of the eyes or ears of the crew. The crew must see the two senior officer's in lockstep. The consequence would be a loss in confidence of the orders given. Bad moral is poisonous in a combat situation. This is why good NCO's are so important in combat. When the men lose confidence in thier officer's, because of what's been said above. Who do they turn to? NCO's(Non Comissioned Officer's).
When Arwen's father prophesies her fate, the music and visuals wreck me everytime. Like the Tazmanian Devil, I get so bummed I could just eat the violin Bugs was playing. Especially the bit where her father says, _"There's nothing for you here, only death."_ ...gee, thanks dad, lets talk more often
@@aaronrowell6943 well that's because the films highten up the drama, when it comes to books Elrond is more agreeable towards the relationship of his daughter with Aragorn but he also set him a task, that only when he reclaims the crown of Gondor will be able to marry her, in any case the gravity of Arwen's choice is often overlooked, once she chooses to be with Aragorn, she seals her fate: "'But Elrond saw many things and read many hearts. One day, therefore, before the fall of the year he called Aragorn to his chamber, and he said: "Aragorn, Arathorn's son, Lord of the Dúnedain, listen to me! A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. Many years of trial lie before you. You shall neither have wife, nor bind any woman to you in troth, until your time comes and you are found worthy of it." 'Then Aragorn was troubled, and he said: "Can it be that my mother has spoken of this?" '"No indeed," said Elrond. "Your own eyes have betrayed you. But I do not speak of my daughter alone. You shall be betrothed to no man's child as yet. But as for Arwen the Fair, Lady of Imladris and of Lórien, Evenstar of her people, she is of lineage greater than yours, and she has lived in the world already so long that to her you are but as a yearling shoot beside a young birch of many summers. She is too far above you. And so, I think, it may well seem to her. But even if it were not so, and her heart turned towards you, I should still be grieved because of the doom that is laid on us." '"What is that doom?" said Aragorn. '"That so long as I abide here, she shall live with the youth of the Eldar," answered Elrond, "and when I depart, she shall go with me, if she so chooses." '"I see," said Aragorn, "that I have turned my eyes to a treasure no less dear than the treasure of Thingol that Beren once desired. Such is my fate." Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him, and he said: "But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth." '"Truly," said Elrond. "Soon, as we account it, though many years of Men must still pass. But there will be no choice before Arwen, my beloved, unless you, Aragorn, Arathorn's son, come between us and bring one of us, you or me, to a bitter parting beyond the end of the world. You do not know yet what you desire of me." He sighed, and after a while, looking gravely upon the young man, he said again: "The years will bring what they will. We will speak no more of this until many have passed. The days darken, and much evil is to come." ... 'And she stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at last she said: "I will cleave to you, Dúnadan, and turn from the Twilight. Yet there lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She loved her father dearly. 'When Elrond learned the choice of his daughter, he was silent, though his heart was grieved and found the doom long feared none the easier to endure. But when Aragorn came again to Rivendell he called him to him, and he said: '"My son, years come when hope will fade, and beyond them little is clear to me. And now a shadow lies between us. Maybe, it has been appointed so, that by my loss the kingship of Men may be restored. Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undómiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor. To me then even our victory can bring only sorrow and parting - but to you hope of joy for a while. For a while. Alas, my son! I fear that to Arwen the Doom of Men may seem hard at the ending." 'So it stood afterwards between Elrond and Aragorn, and they spoke no more of this matter, but Aragorn went forth again to danger and toil." The last conversation of Arwen and her father before his departure is also telling how hard it is for him: "When the feast was over, those who were to go took leave of King Éomer. Aragorn and his knights, and the people of Lórien and of Rivendell, made ready to ride; but Faramir and Imrahil remained at Edoras; and Arwen Evenstar remained also, and she said farewell to her brethren. None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world.
"Theoden King stands alone." Ok maybe a little out there, but The Two Towers was my favorite film in the series. The Ents, Helm's Deep, Rohan, the music and my two absolute favorite characters shining together: Legolas and Gimli. EDIT: Wow, glad to know I'm not the only one who loves this one in the trilogy. Seems like everyone I know likes Fellowship the most.
With all those greedy companie tentacles, even back then already, it is really remarkable that Peter Jackson was able to create this masterpiece at all and he had to be smart and fight about it ❤ it couldnt have happened any other way than under these magic circumstances
In the books they make a much bigger deal out of the Uruk-Hai being able to tolerate daylight. The fact that the sacrifice of the Elves at Helm's Deep isn't referenced elsewhere in the films is probably because they were tacked on in that way, so they don;'t organically into the story. In the books Elrond has made Aragorn becoming king the precondition for him marrying Arwen, so you have none of the faux reluctance to be king that they have in the film. Elrond's pain at the being separated forever from Arwen would be made more acute by remembering his brother Elros (Aragorn's distant ancestor), who chose to be counted among Men and therefore eventually died (after hundreds of years).
@@jkdbuck7670 Their parents were both of mixed origin as well. It was said that Eärendil's heart was more with Men but he chose the Elves for the sake of his wife Elwing.
It’s very interesting rewatching this after the guys have seen S1 of Rings of Power. The absolute praise for attention vs absolute disappointment and anger at RoP is very telling.
One trilogy of films, that if you ask someone: which is your favourite? There is no wrong answer. Mine is Two towers and my wife’s is Felowship, but we both can just nod in agreement at each others choices or even if Return of the King is chosen by someone else. Brilliant films.... Amazon don’t stand a chance of coming close to the quality these films have, even 20 odd years later.
I recently rewatched the Lord of the rings trilogy for the 1st time in 10 years and it was like meeting up with a long lost friend again. I then realised that I have never seen the extended cuts 🙈 so my wife surprised me with the extended DVD set for valentines day because she is awesome and watching them (back2back) 💪was like watching the movies for the 1st time again. Hail the fellowship and the 1 trilogy to rule them all.
For me it’s that it was Fellowship that got me into reading fantasy stories to begin with. Before that I only ever read science fiction or nonfiction cuz I was autistic about that sort of thing, but Fellowship opened up a whole new world of imagination to me. Granted, trying to pick the favorite of the three is splitting hairs, but still.
Same. Fellowship has so many twists and turns, it feels like you're on a journey, whereas Towers and Return feel much more focused on a small handful of locations. Nothing wrong with that, of course, I just prefer the feeling of adventure and travel of Fellowship. I could see a young Shigeru Miyamoto being influence by it when he was coming up with the concept for Legend of Zelda.
Two scenes that realise things that Tolkien didn't flesh out in great detail were the Balrog and Gondor. As someone who used to read LOTR annually for 20 years before the films came out, the visual expression of those elements were magnificent .
Literally just finished watching the Extended Edition with friends - what a timing :) Timeless classic of a trilogy with this movie being quite meme-worthy and quotable: "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!" "Whats taters Precious?" "Potatoes! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!" Legolad skatin' n' slidin' on a shield down the stairs no-scoping fools left and right as the music picks up... Fun stuff. Cheers to you all watching and have a good one gents. GO AWAY NOW
Hell yeah, Two Towers is my favorite as well. I love Isengard as an antagonist. Gandalf vs Balrog, the Warg attack. The Battle of Helms Deep has the most tension and despair with the scared civilians, boys and old men having to fight. Epic speeches from Theoden and Saruman. Not easy picking the best of three masterpieces, but it's Two Towers for me.
Saw Two Towers in the theater when it premiered. The beginning of the movie reminded me of the opening of Star Trek III The Search for Spock, you know what I mean? Gandalf vs Balrog got my blood and adrenaline flowing. Whodathunkkit that they would be able to show Gandalf bringing the fight to Balrog?! It was perfect.
I can see Az, Mauler and Drinker all being able to work something out relatively easily but Gary is the biggest problem due to being several timezones away from the rest of the gang.
@Scott Conrad & @@ulisesvalenzuela7667 Haha yeah I know - but was thinking something more officially named across all their channels maybe... Something easy for the search or thereabouts
I agree with Gary and Drinker…also my favorite of the three films. In the book series, I come down on the side of the third as it amazingly ties so many threads together and completes an epic journey through an entire world.
I think it shows a little bit of Boromir caring for the hobbits when they come out of Moria. Think he tells Aragorn to give the little ones time before moving on.
The conversation about immortality around 1:05:00 reminded me of a 2015 movie called He Never Died. The MC is a man who's lived an unknown number of years and he's portrayed as weary with life, completely disinterested in people and spends most of his time sleeping and going to bingo. It's a pretty good movie, worthy of a review IMO.
Minus the tits, Altered Carbon s1 ends up as an interesting commentary on how an indefinite lifespan in a cursed world would result in a convergence to 40K Dark Eldar-esque perversity and nihilistic decadence
2:41:43 “Better” doesn’t mean “Good.” It just means Better. Stubbing a toe is Better than taking a nailgun shot to the testicles, but it’s still not Good.
There were models they called "bigatures" - because they were miniatures that were really big.. I'm not sure that Andy Serkis had been cast yet when they did the Gollum shots in Moria, and his features and performance had a huge effect on the way they did the final CG.
My favorite CZcamsrs in one vid at once. Doesn’t get better then that. Been watching pieces of these vids after work as I make dinner in a dark quiet house while the family sleeps. Thank u for the vids and the laughs.
Just started the annual watching of LOTR for Easter. Thank you for this conversation of an amazing adaptation to another one of the greatest stories ever told.
One of my favorite parts of the Two Towers was at Helms Deep when the Oruk hai army had stopped and one lightning strike lit up the battle field and ALL the people on Helms Deep walls have either O' shit or awe on their faces at the sheer size of the enemy.
Elrond and his brother got to choose if they want to be Human or Elven. Elrond chose Elven, but his children had to choose too and Arwen chose to be Human. So she did not live eternity after Aragorn died, she lived a human life span from the moment she made that choice. That whole montage with her standing in a ruined city never made sense apart from emotional standpoint, but Arwen would have known her own family history.
@@veiddimaddur8354 yeah I think that’s it. Thank you. I’m interested in examples of this from before mass media, like with royalty, eg Queen Victoria, or the Roman Caesars influencing fashion modes through commissioned busts
I love the after hours streams, they are so perfect for watching my kid outside (she's 2)😅. I first found this out with the Alien episode lol. Its backround noise im very interested in hearing but doesnt distract me visually 👍🏾
this is one of the best discussions about lotr and pop culture that I have ever heard! this is brilliant CLASSIC content! thank you. each one of you. you are a treasure for sure!
57:29 - I remember seeing Two Towers in the cinema with a friend who is a Tolkien expert. I'd only read the books once, as a child, so I knew nothing about the story. When the Elves showed up at Helm's Deep, he put his hand to his head. I whispered, "What's wrong?" He replied, "Plot-... induced... tumor. ... Elves... where... they don't... belong."
Fun Facts: - While everyone always does the Aragorn toe thing, there is one more "live" stun that he did. The dagger that Lurtz throws at him at AmonHen was an actual dagger. The stuntman miscalculated the distance and throw it at his head, the shot of Aragorn deflecting the dagger with his sword is actual Vigo deflecting an actual dagger thrown at his face with his sword. - John Reese Davies did Treebeard differently than Gimli. He practiced speaking while inhaling at the same time. Its what gives Treebeard his long, strange manner of speech.
While Drinker is correct that the Elves didn't take part in the battle of Helm's Deep in the book, he's wrong about the Rohirrim fighting alone. In the book the Dunedain Rangers showed up to fight alongside them and they traveled with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli through the Paths of the Dead, and were still with them when they arrived at the Pelenor Fields. In the movie the trio charges with just the army of the dead, but in the book they still had a force of Rangers with them from Helm's Deep.
I have been loving all the vids from you guys as of late tearing the forthcoming Amazon Rings of Power a new a**hole, to Drinker's Happy Hours discussing the classic LOTR trilogy. It's all gold, and I love being here for the discussion, even as a spectator. It was great hearing everyone's takes on Two Towers, and really enjoyed hearing everyone's opinions on their favourite movie in the trilogy and why. I was surprised to hear of the general love for Two Towers especially. This not because I don't think it is a good film or is lacking outstanding moments of character development or great performances, either...and I do think the extended editions are the true way to see all these films, especially Two Towers. For me, Towers was always closer to the bottom because it has always felt the most disjointed-having to tell 3 separate storylines simultaneously. It has to spend a lot of time introducing new characters, expanding the world even further, and setting things up for Return of the King. It does all these things extremely well, without question, and in terms of the overall trilogy is just as essential to the overall arcs of the characters and plot lines that run through the story as the other two films. Maybe it's because I loved the bond of the Fellowship so much in the first film that their separation, while necessary, leaves a hole. Maybe telling three storylines slows things down significantly... I'm not sure. Whatever way you slice it, LOTR is one large tale and every part is essential. Fellowship of the Ring is the top for me of the 3 films, because it feels the most self contained and linear. It has some of the most poignant emotional moments (ie. Gandalf and Boromir's deaths, Sam's dedication to Frodo), and in terms of setting up the world covers so much ground while simultaneously moving the action forward. You get to see so much of Middle Earth, get introduced to so many different creatures and races and their histories, while falling in love with the characters as the journey bonds them. It sweeps you up in their journey, raises the stakes so effectively, and then leaves you on a genuine cliffhanger at the end. Return was second for me because of the epic battles, and the big emotional payoff at the end. The scene of Theoden rousing the Rohirhim and charging into battle is my favourite scene in the whole trilogy. Looking forward to when you guys cover Return of the King!
Back in the Fellowship, Andy Serkis wasn't yet picked as Gollum, and Peter Jackson was expecting to use the same model in the Two Towers. But when Andy Serkis was brought onboard, he convinced Jackson to film Gollum's actual movements using Serkis' own body as a reference to make the performance more convincing (Serkis always wore a white fat suit because of this), and so Gollum was remade to fit Andy Serkis' movements, yet still retaining Gollum's more nimble side.
I do like your comments and observations. Like pointing out that Viggo broke his toe is a 'lame fact'. I always thought the elves at Helm's deep was a master - stroke and makes more sense than Galadriel to send them from Lothlorien (Not from Rivendell; Elrond sent no elves so why Haldir brings word from him makes no sense) than to call the Dunedain to go looking for Aragorn as in the book. You are right that the loss of all the elves pretty much is skipped over, but it's like this in film battles. The survivors cheer and clap happily and nobody bothers about the widows and orphans left by 60% casualties. And of course the women should have fought at Helm's deep rather than the Zimmermen and boys in shorts, but we can't bear to see the women killed, can we?
36:30 In Russia in the 90s one writer wrote a couple "fan-fiction" books (or as I would prefer, apocryphs) about Middle-Earth. One of them was about Ringwraiths' origins, each one of them got their own background (barbaric clan chieftain, haradrim prince, a renowned scholar and healer etc), their own way of meeting (disguised) Sauron and their own motivation and reasons for accepting the ring. And some of them indeed took it with good intentions, planning to help the people, to better the world - before being dragged into the nightmarish existence of a Nazgul. I know that Tolkien did not want others to play with his characters, and legally that book could not have been approved by "Tolkien estate", but it was written so well, so believable, with so much respect for the world he created, that I honestly wish it would become the canon. It would definitely provide a many times better material for an adaptation than anything Amazon's dumb and talentless hacks pulled out of their rear end.
I remember seeing a super early CAM version before it hit theaters in my country. I was too young to really appreciate Fellowship in theaters the year before - I needed that time leading up to Towers to process what I'd seen (not to mention all the times my friends and I would reenact the cave troll scene on the playground) to really get what LotR was and realize how much it had influenced me.
After bingeing most of your vids in about a week, I came to genuinely respect your passion for storytelling and knowledge of how it should be done. I agree with your emphasis on well-written, believable characters that you can enjoy going on a journey with. And the deepest, most fundamental aspects of your criticism have inspired me to finally do something. Something I knew I wasn’t ready for when I first imagined it. For the last 20 years, I have written roughly 1 million words for friends and family, with the simple purpose of earning adequate skill at storytelling. I honed my writing, and even ultimately benefited from deep, painful personal struggles, so that I could finally tell a specific short story. It complements and builds up one of your favorite films. And, incidentally, it also showcases many examples of genuine masculinity displayed in a variety of ways. Further, I feel it sets a very high bar for what respectful, quality “fanfiction” should strive to be. Upholding a beloved work. Understanding it, valuing it, and forgiving any supposed flaws. Contributing a modest addition to someone else’s great legacy. Underscoring and deepening the arc of an already beloved character. Teaching the same positive lessons with the same noble themes, in a slightly different way. Honoring the work, the creator of that work, and all those who have come to love it for what it is. I strove to keep it focused, purposeful, limiting it to just 22,000 words. It may not be perfect, but it certainly tries to be. I hope you will consider giving it a read. Based on what you’ve shown everyone of your true self (behind your hilarious outward persona), I believe you will approve of these efforts. You may be uplifted and proud for having put forth the time to read it. And you will then enjoy going back to watch your favorite trilogy yet again, perhaps getting even more out of the experience. The tale is humbly posted, amidst countless others, on fanfiction.net, under the title “The Children of Rohan,” by WillDreamer.
You, loquacious sirs, have made my day…well, twice, if I’m honest. Listened to this two times as LOTR is an annual re-watch and has been since forever. Enjoyed the conversation between y'all and gained a new respect for AZ and Gary. Drinker and Mauler I’m already a devoted listener/watcher of all your content and have commented on that prior. Meandering tangential conversations aside (lol), you’re spot-on about what makes a great story, especially in film. Keep up the fine work, good sirs.
i Grew up near big Sur, in Monterey/Carmel, CA. anytime there were bad storms and the roads washed out people who lived in big sur were cut off and there were kids in my high school that missed up to several weeks/months of school
This movie has so much scenes that gives you goosebums. Merry talking to Pippin: The fires of Isengard will spread, and the forests of Tuckborough and Buckland will burn. And all that was once great and good in this world will be gone. There won't be a Shire, Pippin.
I love these talks and glad I came across them. These movies deserve to be appreciated, thank god for Tolkien and Peter Jackson. Also a fun fact you may not of heard is that Helm Hammerhand is actually a sound weapon designed to take advantage of the acoustics of the canyon, or so I've heard. That's how they were able to charge into the remaining horde as well. That's fucking badass eh?
As far as Smeagol vs Gollum, he had the One Ring for HOW LONG... and even after ALL of THAT, he ALMOST made it back out from under the influence of the One Ring. Imagine how strong his psyche was to last THAT long...
Gees AZ was so spot on and eloquent in his long speech! Star Trek (old) always made me question my beliefs and had so many stories where I challenged what I thought and it made me a better person.
“We’re not getting stories, we’re getting messages” mic drop that fell through the stage, kept going through the basement, through earth’s core, resurfaced in China; and falls back through the core right into AZ’s hand. 2:08:20
We really didn't realise how lucky we were with these films? No sense of cynicism or skepticism, no modern political bullshit or "lessons" for us to be lectured to when we're just trying to be entertained. No. Just pure, good old-fashioned entertainment. I feel like we've lost that completely now...
The films you are referencing are endlessly political and contain several moral messages and lessons, they are simply presenting such info in the traditional esoteric method of great Western art. LOTR comes off so well because Jackson was not too afraid to represent the story as Tolkien intended it....unlike the remake that is purely entertainment trash as you already mentioned.
I think they’re less inspired by politics and more by religion, but it’s so woven into the story to the point you don’t notice it, especially in the Lord of the rings. Yet looking at the Silmarillion knowing Tolkiens position regarding Catholicism and Paganism and it’s absolutely filled with Religious tones.
Yeah, I have to agree with the Drinker on how they handled the battle between the balrog and Gandalf the grey. I loved it as a kid, but in hindsight it may be better to handle it more like the drinker described.
I love maulers face in the thumbnail. Also i got a lighter with maulers face on it. Not exact but its a black menacing gas mask but i call it my mauler lighter.
I fucking love this, I mean don’t get me wrong I love when these guys trash the stuff that is trash, but theses guys are great because they praise the things that deserve to be praised.
Concerning letting Wormtongue go, in the books Wormtongue returned to Isengard way after the Ents destroyed it, meeting Treebeard, so in his own words, "My messages are of no use." It makes more sense than in the film.
I think Drinker’s interpretation of the elves being exhausted by life is incomplete. In the books its shown the elves get extremely excited by songs, music, poetry; art in general seems to breathe life into their souls Edit: on a whole other topic, Brandson Sanderson should absolutely NOT finish GoT 😂 I love his books they’re awesome in terms of plot, setting and character arcs but his prose is so bland. His prose next to grrm is like a finger painting next to the cistine chapel. It would never work
That makes sense, considering music was the method of the world's creation in Tolkien's universe. And I agree, as much as I love basically everything Brandon Sanderson has ever done, he's a bad choice for finishing GoT, he's way too clean for one lol
I mean the high elves I would think. Remember they came to middle earth to stop Morgoth. Well he’s long defeated along with his servant. By the time his servant re-emerged there was barely any of them left. With the Silvans in the east I think it’s different as they find happiness in the forest
@@steffanyschwartz7801 true; but in the books remember the scene in the house of Elrond where the elves feast, sing and Bilbo reads his poems? They’re not totally austere. And the sylvans aren’t exactly young, Galadriel is older than Elrond I believe
Real missed opportunity here, especially after the sensei names for the Cobra Kai episode: One Drinker to Rule Them All One Az to Find Them One Nerd to Bring Them All And in the Mauler Bind Them
The Two Towers is my favorite of the trilogy. In my opinion, it has an Empire Strikes Back vibe. It’s the darkest of three, everyone is in a dire situation but, they pull through in the end
For me this is hands down the best of the trilogy. The build up to the final battle, the battle itself. Everything was so meaty and substantial and so much more satisfying than the battle in ROTK. I think, for me it's down to the Uraks. Definitely more imposing and fearful than orcs or goblins!
'It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.'
These words of the past resonates even harder in our present day. Thank you Sam, thank you Tolkien
JRRT>grrm
What are we holding on to, Sam?
Thank you! I was going to post this as well! I can’t believe they didn’t mention this. Sam’s speech at the end is probably my favorite part of the movie and favorite lines in the trilogy
I love Sam (and JRRT) so much
I just caught something now. the first time Frodo calls Gollum Smeagol, he replies, "What did you call me?" he's so shocked and surprised that he reverts back to 'me' instead of 'us'.
Damn.. never noticed that. His name helped him regain his humanity, even for a brief reprieve.
@@amandahuginkys7878 LOTR really are amazing movies. You can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a viewing, and yet after a hundred watchings they can still surprise you at a pinch.
@@JMel2012
Before the LOTR trilogy came along, cinematic adaptions of the books weren't very well thought of.
Never had any live actions or did anything groundbreaking.
What ever the trilogy did, they've been officially labeled a timeless masterpiece.
@@a_loyal_kiwi88 Yep, just look at the terrible track record of book adaptations before LOTR: (in no particular order) The Godfather, The French Connection, Interview With the Vampire, The Color Purple, Gone With the Wind, Doctor Zhivago, The Exorcist, Psycho, Jurassic Park, Silence of the Lambs, Forrest Gump, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Shining, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, Shawshank Redemption, Goodfellas, Stand by Me, Misery, Schindler's List, the first Harry Potter movie that came out a month before FOTR... Should I continue? 😉
@@Fardawg
I was making a joke lol
My wording is meant to mimic what Frodo says to Gandalf during their first meeting.
"The horn of Helm Hammerhand shall sound in the deep one last time. Let this be the hour when we draw swords together. Fell deeds awake. Now for wrath, now for ruin, and the red dawn!"
That moment when the Camera cuts to Theoden, and it zooms in as he says "One. Last. Time." is a perfect cinematic moment. Damn that scene is awesome.
God, i love Theoden
Theoden really has some great pre battle speeches
Forth Eorlingas!
Gimli: "BWAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRPPPP!!!"
Mauler needs to give us an "unbridled praise" of LotR series! Give me hours and hours of gushing over these films!!
This is a phenomenal idea
Oh boy did he over-deliver on that one
"Sauron was a pussycat compared to Morgoth." Definitely. Sauron commanded Orcs and Nazgul, Morgoth had legions of dragons, Balrogs, and many more unsavory beasts.
The ''legion of balrogs" thing was retconned by Tolkien in his letters because his early concept of what a balrog is was a lot lesser than what they eventually became. There were thus less than a dozen balrogs and probably only like four or five. Glaurung and Ancalagon were much more powerful than Smaug sure but Morgoth did not have very many of them and he only had flying dragons for one battle and he lost that one courtesy of Earendil and his flying boat. The unsavoury elements were Sauron's pets or, in the case of the spiders, weren't exactly allied to Morgoth.
@@laurie1183 wow, I didn't know that, concerning the Balrogs. Nevertheless, everything with Morgoth just seemed grander in scale, Sauron being a more limited version.
Tolkien realized that Morgoth would have won with legions of balrogs he turned it to like 7. 2 saying in Gondolin, many dying in the war of wrath, one to Gandalf, and a few others went to other mountains
Sauron as a Kylo Ren-style wannabe LARPing as his hero Morgoth is a feel I didn't want or need.
@@harbl99 Sauron is at least a good villain. Kylo Ren is just a stain on Vader's cape.
"There is only one cut of the Lord Of The Rings, only one that can bend time to its will. And it does not share viewing with the theatrical."
- Gandalf the based
The portrayal of Gollum in these movies has always been top notch. Even in the diverse Hobbit trilogy nobody complains about the scene with Gollum.
But the one Gollum scene I remember is from the animated portrayal when Bilbo escapes him at the back door. I always think back to the delivery of the line and how perfect it captured the rage:
“Thief! Thief Baggins! We hates it forever!”
the gollum scene in the hobbit was the scene filmed first, its also the best scene
@@ben3129 yes yes it is
I think the extended version does a lot for the Two Towers and I'd actually recommend that people watch it.
Will add more comments later but I came by to say that I think its a bloody embarrassment and an absolute insult that Andy Serkis was not nominated for a best actor Oscar for his portrayal of Gollum. I actuall read that Peter Jackson campaigned really hard for it but the Oscar committee was too narrow minded and pedantic to allow it... Sad.
Although i agree with you, Andy is more competent that most oscar winners anyway and it shows. I cant name a single role he failed to deliver on, that kind of actor isn't about the accolades just the content and love of the job. I hope he is as good a director as he is an actor!
The Oscars are an incestuous joke
That pub where Tolkien and C. S. Lewis met up is called the Lamb and Flag. It's in Oxford. I've been there, and had Fish & Chips. :D
:D thats awesome
Ooh, lovely - fishes and chips!
🎜 Now we wish,
To catch a fish,
So juicy sweeet! 🎜
But, what's chips, precious?
What's chips?
An interestingly named place to meet for friends of whom one converted the other to Catholicism
@@WreckItRolfeNot to Catholicism. Tolkien would have wanted Lewis to join the Catholic Church, but Lewis joined the Anglican Church instead.
Keep your nasty chips.
You guys got the Sauron bit wrong: the gay boyfriend and the sassy smarter sister are things to ruin heroes with. We'll find out, that Sauron wasn't really evil at all, he was just misunderstood, and there was a truly evil evil lord - I don't know, Larry, or something - from whom he enherited his tower, his cool armour, Mordor, the idea to make rings and even his orks (there'll be two bumbling orks following him around, commenting on how cool it would be to turn Saruman evil, or how Moria would make a nice home for a balrog, and s like that). You see, Sauron just wanted to save Middle Earth, and the heroes in Lord of the Rings were the real evil for killing him. Basically it'll be the Maleficent/Cruella-method all over again.
Sexy Sauron - 2022
There actually is a truly evil evil lord; Morgoth. He was Sauron's master if I remember right. So yeah, you're probably dead on.
Excuse me, bigot. "Orc" is an Alt-Elf slur for the Mordorian refugees.
Technically Sauron was just following Morgoth but they both did horrible things. Morgoth destroyed the world as much as he could taking the 4 most powerful things out of existence. He also tortured elves so much they became orcs. Now Sauron was one of the people who joined Morgoth in the creation of the world in the music. He actually held Angband (Morgoth’s stronghold) when he was captive. He also did things like torturing men and killing elves with werewolves. Actually Sauron only made it to the second age as the Valar who commanded the army that took Morgoth didn’t have time to deal with him.
*Larry Trump, a white man. Because no sjw narrative is complete without an evil white Trump like figure.
Can't wait for the Return of the King discussion.
My favorite
Still my personal favorite movie of all-time.
Amazon's show will b better
Get professor tosspot on for it :)
@@NathanCassidy721 two towers is personally my favorite but like az said, I watch it as one long story. It's hard to break it up into different movies, in my head.
I just had the opportunity to sit down and listen to this and the former stream on The Fellowship Of The Ring.
Thing with me is, years and years ago, I was stuck in a horribly abusive relationship. The only time that I got any real solace when she was at work and I was home was by watching the Trilogy, as it was well done enough that I was sort of pulled out of my situation.
Getting so engrossed in the movie made me forget where I was physically, mentally, emotionally.. I'm pretty damn sure it was the only thing that kept me from cramming a gun-barrel into my mouth and pulling the trigger, if we're being brutally honest.
You're absolutely right in that the fans of the books and these movies are united. I loved sitting down and listening to you guys talk about how much you loved this movie and the others, I always enjoy the banter between all of you when you're together. You guys are awesome, keep up the amazing work. In large part because of this stream and the aforementioned one, I've gone ahead and re-ordered the Extended Edition Blu-Ray discs and this upcoming weekend will be the first time I'll have watched them since I got out of there.
Thank you for reminding me as to why I love these movies.
When the rain starts at the beginning of helms deep . . . It starts clanking on the battle armor all around and that was hands down one of the coolest things . Gives me chills everytime .
In regards to helms deep with not firing arrows as soon they in range remember what Gandalf tells Aragorn (paraphrasing here) "first light on the fifth day look to the east". All they have to do is hold out until then and survive. It's not about winning here but delaying and surviving. So let the orcs do their intimidation and take their time as it's not about killing them but delaying and if they delay themselves even for only 10 more minutes so be it as you need all the time you can get.
They only have a limited supply of arrows as well. Close range targets are easier to hit.
Yeah i totally agree they missed that point I think
@@Drawnartist I don't agree. You can't miss a target that size, and delaying them for a few more minutes wasn't going to make any difference. I'd deny them their intimidation, given that - as Theoden said - morale among the defenders was very fragile.
@SingularNinjular a target that size with small weak points though?
Legolas is actually a prince as well, so that would also add to why he is the way he is
Lastly, remember The Silmarillion: Elves Behaving Badly.
"Lend boat."
"No."
"Lend boat."
"No."
"Is time for ded nau!"
Aaaaaah, classic Feanor.
Noldor regularly : *noble race battling the Great Evil*
Noldor when a Silmaril is involved : *morphs into a race of Gollums*
Not to mention Fëanors sons, a mixed bag to say the least. I think Caranthir and Curufin are the two scummiest Elves that ever lived.
Man I freaking love Boromir. I also love Faramir's character, although I do prefer the book version of Faramir. Some people might say he was "too pure and good" but I think there can be at least a couple people in the world who don't just immediately give in to the Ring's power. That being said, it makes sense why they did things the way they did in the movie
I remember seeing Nerd of Rings’ video on it and I went, “Ah, I see what they are complaining about.”
But I always felt the movie version, particularly the Extended Cut, gave us a relatable story of a man who overcame temptation and proved what it truly meant to be a good guy. His only flaw being a need to please his ungrateful father who loved him but never demonstrated it genuinely.
@@NathanCassidy721 Yes, and I also loved how the movie showed Faramir dealing with being constantly belittled and compared to his older brother. Those scenes with Boromir, Faramir and Denethor in Osgiliath give all three of them some extra character development.
So yeah, the movies did an excellent job
Drinker and Gary’s faces every time Az tries to say ‘Rohirrim’
And you KNOW MauLer made the same face under his mask.
1:27:30 I think the idea was to stall them as much as possible until Gandalf arrived. So if the Uruks want to waste time beating their chests and showboating, that's in the best interests of Rohan. That guy shooting that arrow and kickstarting the battle cost may have cost them the minutes they needed to hold the keep longer until Gandalf showed up.
That's at least how I always interpreted it.
That scene between Data and Worf highlights the importance of the chain of command.
The importance is that regardless of right or wrong the two senior command officer's must preserve the chain of command. Questions and gripes always got up the chain, never down. However...
The first officer must express his concern, out of the eyes or ears of the crew.
The crew must see the two senior officer's in lockstep. The consequence would be a loss in confidence of the orders given.
Bad moral is poisonous in a combat situation.
This is why good NCO's are so important in combat. When the men lose confidence in thier officer's, because of what's been said above. Who do they turn to? NCO's(Non Comissioned Officer's).
When Arwen's father prophesies her fate, the music and visuals wreck me everytime. Like the Tazmanian Devil, I get so bummed I could just eat the violin Bugs was playing. Especially the bit where her father says, _"There's nothing for you here, only death."_
...gee, thanks dad, lets talk more often
Yeah, he starts to behave kinda doucheyat some point, but he turns around at the end
Don't forget his guilt trip!
Don't you love me too?
What a jerk!
@@aaronrowell6943 well that's because the films highten up the drama, when it comes to books Elrond is more agreeable towards the relationship of his daughter with Aragorn but he also set him a task, that only when he reclaims the crown of Gondor will be able to marry her, in any case the gravity of Arwen's choice is often overlooked, once she chooses to be with Aragorn, she seals her fate:
"'But Elrond saw many things and read many hearts. One day, therefore, before the fall of the year he called Aragorn to his chamber, and he said: "Aragorn, Arathorn's son, Lord of the Dúnedain, listen to me! A great doom awaits you, either to rise above the height of all your fathers since the days of Elendil, or to fall into darkness with all that is left of your kin. Many years of trial lie before you. You shall neither have wife, nor bind any woman to you in troth, until your time comes and you are found worthy of it."
'Then Aragorn was troubled, and he said: "Can it be that my mother has spoken of this?"
'"No indeed," said Elrond. "Your own eyes have betrayed you. But I do not speak of my daughter alone. You shall be betrothed to no man's child as yet. But as for Arwen the Fair, Lady of Imladris and of Lórien, Evenstar of her people, she is of lineage greater than yours, and she has lived in the world already so long that to her you are but as a yearling shoot beside a young birch of many summers. She is too far above you. And so, I think, it may well seem to her. But even if it were not so, and her heart turned towards you, I should still be grieved because of the doom that is laid on us."
'"What is that doom?" said Aragorn.
'"That so long as I abide here, she shall live with the youth of the Eldar," answered Elrond, "and when I depart, she shall go with me, if she so chooses."
'"I see," said Aragorn, "that I have turned my eyes to a treasure no less dear than the treasure of Thingol that Beren once desired. Such is my fate." Then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him, and he said: "But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth."
'"Truly," said Elrond. "Soon, as we account it, though many years of Men must still pass. But there will be no choice before Arwen, my beloved, unless you, Aragorn, Arathorn's son, come between us and bring one of us, you or me, to a bitter parting beyond the end of the world. You do not know yet what you desire of me." He sighed, and after a while, looking gravely upon the young man, he said again: "The years will bring what they will. We will speak no more of this until many have passed. The days darken, and much evil is to come."
...
'And she stood then as still as a white tree, looking into the West, and at last she said: "I will cleave to you, Dúnadan, and turn from the Twilight. Yet there lies the land of my people and the long home of all my kin." She loved her father dearly.
'When Elrond learned the choice of his daughter, he was silent, though his heart was grieved and found the doom long feared none the easier to endure. But when Aragorn came again to Rivendell he called him to him, and he said:
'"My son, years come when hope will fade, and beyond them little is clear to me. And now a shadow lies between us. Maybe, it has been appointed so, that by my loss the kingship of Men may be restored. Therefore, though I love you, I say to you: Arwen Undómiel shall not diminish her life's grace for less cause. She shall not be the bride of any Man less than the King of both Gondor and Arnor. To me then even our victory can bring only sorrow and parting - but to you hope of joy for a while. For a while. Alas, my son! I fear that to Arwen the Doom of Men may seem hard at the ending."
'So it stood afterwards between Elrond and Aragorn, and they spoke no more of this matter, but Aragorn went forth again to danger and toil."
The last conversation of Arwen and her father before his departure is also telling how hard it is for him:
"When the feast was over, those who were to go took leave of King Éomer. Aragorn and his knights, and the people of Lórien and of Rivendell, made ready to ride; but Faramir and Imrahil remained at Edoras; and Arwen Evenstar remained also, and she said farewell to her brethren. None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world.
Wasn’t Elrond’s brother the first king of Numenor? So, technically isn’t he Aragorn’s ancestor?
@@darkside5452 yes technically he’s Aragorn’s Great Uncle.
1:40:16 "That lord of the Rings Trilogy. Fucking garbage, man!"
Oh boy, EFAP #93 flashbacks FOR NOH REASON!
A great EFAP too
You have my sword.
And you have my bow.
And my AZ!
@Wai shis Ocsol No, that was Denethor II.
@@Clemppu
😂😂🔥
That name. Bruh
That reaction that Gandalf had when Aragorn told him that Sam went with Frodo was so heart warming!
"Theoden King stands alone."
Ok maybe a little out there, but The Two Towers was my favorite film in the series. The Ents, Helm's Deep, Rohan, the music and my two absolute favorite characters shining together: Legolas and Gimli.
EDIT: Wow, glad to know I'm not the only one who loves this one in the trilogy. Seems like everyone I know likes Fellowship the most.
I prefer The fellowship (book) and RoTK (film)...
Sorry :)
With all those greedy companie tentacles, even back then already, it is really remarkable that Peter Jackson was able to create this masterpiece at all and he had to be smart and fight about it ❤ it couldnt have happened any other way than under these magic circumstances
Information moved a lot slower back then. You didnt have nosy producers looking up your ass via Zoom every second of every day.
In the books they make a much bigger deal out of the Uruk-Hai being able to tolerate daylight. The fact that the sacrifice of the Elves at Helm's Deep isn't referenced elsewhere in the films is probably because they were tacked on in that way, so they don;'t organically into the story.
In the books Elrond has made Aragorn becoming king the precondition for him marrying Arwen, so you have none of the faux reluctance to be king that they have in the film.
Elrond's pain at the being separated forever from Arwen would be made more acute by remembering his brother Elros (Aragorn's distant ancestor), who chose to be counted among Men and therefore eventually died (after hundreds of years).
Exactly. You hit the nail on the head mentioning Elros. What about their parents?
@@jkdbuck7670 Their parents were both of mixed origin as well. It was said that Eärendil's heart was more with Men but he chose the Elves for the sake of his wife Elwing.
It’s very interesting rewatching this after the guys have seen S1 of Rings of Power. The absolute praise for attention vs absolute disappointment and anger at RoP is very telling.
this movie trilogy is the best in all cinema history. it is my favorite of all time and I will watch this with my kids until I'm dead
hopefully you'll bury your kids
It'd be worth breaking an oath and never resting if you had LOTR extended to keep you company
One trilogy of films, that if you ask someone: which is your favourite? There is no wrong answer. Mine is Two towers and my wife’s is Felowship, but we both can just nod in agreement at each others choices or even if Return of the King is chosen by someone else. Brilliant films.... Amazon don’t stand a chance of coming close to the quality these films have, even 20 odd years later.
I recently rewatched the Lord of the rings trilogy for the 1st time in 10 years and it was like meeting up with a long lost friend again. I then realised that I have never seen the extended cuts 🙈 so my wife surprised me with the extended DVD set for valentines day because she is awesome and watching them (back2back) 💪was like watching the movies for the 1st time again. Hail the fellowship and the 1 trilogy to rule them all.
This was fun to listen to. I wish you’d have gone on even longer.
The moment we've all been waiting for, over three hours of two towers discussion from the lads!
Moria and Boromir do it for me as well. If I have to choose a fave, it's fellowship.
For me, it's just that I like adventures over wars.
For me it’s that it was Fellowship that got me into reading fantasy stories to begin with. Before that I only ever read science fiction or nonfiction cuz I was autistic about that sort of thing, but Fellowship opened up a whole new world of imagination to me. Granted, trying to pick the favorite of the three is splitting hairs, but still.
Same. Fellowship has so many twists and turns, it feels like you're on a journey, whereas Towers and Return feel much more focused on a small handful of locations. Nothing wrong with that, of course, I just prefer the feeling of adventure and travel of Fellowship. I could see a young Shigeru Miyamoto being influence by it when he was coming up with the concept for Legend of Zelda.
Two scenes that realise things that Tolkien didn't flesh out in great detail were the Balrog and Gondor. As someone who used to read LOTR annually for 20 years before the films came out, the visual expression of those elements were magnificent .
Yes
Literally just finished watching the Extended Edition with friends - what a timing :)
Timeless classic of a trilogy with this movie being quite meme-worthy and quotable:
"They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!"
"Whats taters Precious?" "Potatoes! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew!"
Legolad skatin' n' slidin' on a shield down the stairs no-scoping fools left and right as the music picks up... Fun stuff.
Cheers to you all watching and have a good one gents. GO AWAY NOW
Tolkien never intended The Ring as allegory, but the addictive and precious nature of our iPhones/Androids makes me want to throw mine into Mount Doom
I don't use a cell phone. *posted from my galaxy s22*
Az and his cat are the cutest couple ;)
The body is round. Both of them.
This is the best Happy Hour I’ve seen yet !
Exceptional story from Gary at 1:39:04
Hell yeah, Two Towers is my favorite as well. I love Isengard as an antagonist. Gandalf vs Balrog, the Warg attack. The Battle of Helms Deep has the most tension and despair with the scared civilians, boys and old men having to fight. Epic speeches from Theoden and Saruman.
Not easy picking the best of three masterpieces, but it's Two Towers for me.
Saw Two Towers in the theater when it premiered. The beginning of the movie reminded me of the opening of Star Trek III The Search for Spock, you know what I mean?
Gandalf vs Balrog got my blood and adrenaline flowing. Whodathunkkit that they would be able to show Gandalf bringing the fight to Balrog?! It was perfect.
Meanwhile, Drinker is handsome w/his sunglasses off.
I hope one day these 4 decide to do a more regular stream together!
But when the world needed them most…
I can see Az, Mauler and Drinker all being able to work something out relatively easily but Gary is the biggest problem due to being several timezones away from the rest of the gang.
Az mauler and Gary do a stream every Tuesday and sometimes Drinker drops by.
They kinda do
@Scott Conrad & @@ulisesvalenzuela7667 Haha yeah I know - but was thinking something more officially named across all their channels maybe... Something easy for the search or thereabouts
I agree with Gary and Drinker…also my favorite of the three films. In the book series, I come down on the side of the third as it amazingly ties so many threads together and completes an epic journey through an entire world.
Well, it has the scouring of the shire, too
This is amazing. I happen to be starting the 2nd disc of the two towers extended cut. So happy, GO AWAY NOW!
I think it shows a little bit of Boromir caring for the hobbits when they come out of Moria. Think he tells Aragorn to give the little ones time before moving on.
The conversation about immortality around 1:05:00 reminded me of a 2015 movie called He Never Died. The MC is a man who's lived an unknown number of years and he's portrayed as weary with life, completely disinterested in people and spends most of his time sleeping and going to bingo. It's a pretty good movie, worthy of a review IMO.
Also stars Henry Rollins, who I've always had a soft spot for.
He Never Died is a great low budget indie flick! Henry Rollins was perfect lead in it. Movie also features Steven "Trevor from GTA V" Ogg.
Thanks, I'll check it out
Minus the tits, Altered Carbon s1 ends up as an interesting commentary on how an indefinite lifespan in a cursed world would result in a convergence to 40K Dark Eldar-esque perversity and nihilistic decadence
2:41:43
“Better” doesn’t mean “Good.” It just means Better. Stubbing a toe is Better than taking a nailgun shot to the testicles, but it’s still not Good.
There were models they called "bigatures" - because they were miniatures that were really big.. I'm not sure that Andy Serkis had been cast yet when they did the Gollum shots in Moria, and his features and performance had a huge effect on the way they did the final CG.
My favorite CZcamsrs in one vid at once. Doesn’t get better then that. Been watching pieces of these vids after work as I make dinner in a dark quiet house while the family sleeps. Thank u for the vids and the laughs.
Just started the annual watching of LOTR for Easter. Thank you for this conversation of an amazing adaptation to another one of the greatest stories ever told.
Greatest movies of all time. Nuff said
One of my favorite parts of the Two Towers was at Helms Deep when the Oruk hai army had stopped and one lightning strike lit up the battle field and ALL the people on Helms Deep walls have either O' shit or awe on their faces at the sheer size of the enemy.
Bring back Voxis
Damn I would like this comment at least a 100 times ...
Voxis stream was great.
Is Voxis, is Knowledge, is Entertainment.
Elrond and his brother got to choose if they want to be Human or Elven. Elrond chose Elven, but his children had to choose too and Arwen chose to be Human. So she did not live eternity after Aragorn died, she lived a human life span from the moment she made that choice. That whole montage with her standing in a ruined city never made sense apart from emotional standpoint, but Arwen would have known her own family history.
i have no friends so these live streams makes me feel like i have friends, thank you
That’s actually a recognized psychological phenomenon but I forget the name
@@cosmictreason2242 parasocial relationships?
@@veiddimaddur8354 sounds legit, gonna go Google now
@@veiddimaddur8354 yeah I think that’s it. Thank you. I’m interested in examples of this from before mass media, like with royalty, eg Queen Victoria, or the Roman Caesars influencing fashion modes through commissioned busts
I love the after hours streams, they are so perfect for watching my kid outside (she's 2)😅. I first found this out with the Alien episode lol. Its backround noise im very interested in hearing but doesnt distract me visually 👍🏾
Thank you. Could find it and missed it yesterday
this is one of the best discussions about lotr and pop culture that I have ever heard! this is brilliant CLASSIC content! thank you. each one of you. you are a treasure for sure!
Yes and yes
Why does AZ look like the evil leader of a kung fu sect from a Shaw Bros movie in the thumbnail?
57:29 - I remember seeing Two Towers in the cinema with a friend who is a Tolkien expert. I'd only read the books once, as a child, so I knew nothing about the story.
When the Elves showed up at Helm's Deep, he put his hand to his head. I whispered, "What's wrong?" He replied, "Plot-... induced... tumor. ... Elves... where... they don't... belong."
Fun Facts:
- While everyone always does the Aragorn toe thing, there is one more "live" stun that he did. The dagger that Lurtz throws at him at AmonHen was an actual dagger. The stuntman miscalculated the distance and throw it at his head, the shot of Aragorn deflecting the dagger with his sword is actual Vigo deflecting an actual dagger thrown at his face with his sword.
- John Reese Davies did Treebeard differently than Gimli. He practiced speaking while inhaling at the same time. Its what gives Treebeard his long, strange manner of speech.
While Drinker is correct that the Elves didn't take part in the battle of Helm's Deep in the book, he's wrong about the Rohirrim fighting alone.
In the book the Dunedain Rangers showed up to fight alongside them and they traveled with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli through the Paths of the Dead, and were still with them when they arrived at the Pelenor Fields.
In the movie the trio charges with just the army of the dead, but in the book they still had a force of Rangers with them from Helm's Deep.
Can we get a round of applause for Brad Dourif?
Deadwood, Chuckie, Myst, hell even Once Upon a Time, I haven't yet seen a performance from him i didn't love.
👏👏👏
Actually paused the stream and ordered that book 'Elric', cheers Gary. 🍻
I have been loving all the vids from you guys as of late tearing the forthcoming Amazon Rings of Power a new a**hole, to Drinker's Happy Hours discussing the classic LOTR trilogy. It's all gold, and I love being here for the discussion, even as a spectator. It was great hearing everyone's takes on Two Towers, and really enjoyed hearing everyone's opinions on their favourite movie in the trilogy and why. I was surprised to hear of the general love for Two Towers especially. This not because I don't think it is a good film or is lacking outstanding moments of character development or great performances, either...and I do think the extended editions are the true way to see all these films, especially Two Towers.
For me, Towers was always closer to the bottom because it has always felt the most disjointed-having to tell 3 separate storylines simultaneously. It has to spend a lot of time introducing new characters, expanding the world even further, and setting things up for Return of the King. It does all these things extremely well, without question, and in terms of the overall trilogy is just as essential to the overall arcs of the characters and plot lines that run through the story as the other two films. Maybe it's because I loved the bond of the Fellowship so much in the first film that their separation, while necessary, leaves a hole. Maybe telling three storylines slows things down significantly... I'm not sure. Whatever way you slice it, LOTR is one large tale and every part is essential.
Fellowship of the Ring is the top for me of the 3 films, because it feels the most self contained and linear. It has some of the most poignant emotional moments (ie. Gandalf and Boromir's deaths, Sam's dedication to Frodo), and in terms of setting up the world covers so much ground while simultaneously moving the action forward. You get to see so much of Middle Earth, get introduced to so many different creatures and races and their histories, while falling in love with the characters as the journey bonds them. It sweeps you up in their journey, raises the stakes so effectively, and then leaves you on a genuine cliffhanger at the end. Return was second for me because of the epic battles, and the big emotional payoff at the end. The scene of Theoden rousing the Rohirhim and charging into battle is my favourite scene in the whole trilogy.
Looking forward to when you guys cover Return of the King!
Back in the Fellowship, Andy Serkis wasn't yet picked as Gollum, and Peter Jackson was expecting to use the same model in the Two Towers. But when Andy Serkis was brought onboard, he convinced Jackson to film Gollum's actual movements using Serkis' own body as a reference to make the performance more convincing (Serkis always wore a white fat suit because of this), and so Gollum was remade to fit Andy Serkis' movements, yet still retaining Gollum's more nimble side.
Watched live but showed up to like just for the thumbnail lmao brilliant!
i know this is from a year ago, but i love it when you guys talk Lord of the Rings. so glad i found your channel bro
I do like your comments and observations. Like pointing out that Viggo broke his toe is a 'lame fact'. I always thought the elves at Helm's deep was a master - stroke and makes more sense than Galadriel to send them from Lothlorien (Not from Rivendell; Elrond sent no elves so why Haldir brings word from him makes no sense) than to call the Dunedain to go looking for Aragorn as in the book. You are right that the loss of all the elves pretty much is skipped over, but it's like this in film battles. The survivors cheer and clap happily and nobody bothers about the widows and orphans left by 60% casualties. And of course the women should have fought at Helm's deep rather than the Zimmermen and boys in shorts, but we can't bear to see the women killed, can we?
36:30 In Russia in the 90s one writer wrote a couple "fan-fiction" books (or as I would prefer, apocryphs) about Middle-Earth. One of them was about Ringwraiths' origins, each one of them got their own background (barbaric clan chieftain, haradrim prince, a renowned scholar and healer etc), their own way of meeting (disguised) Sauron and their own motivation and reasons for accepting the ring. And some of them indeed took it with good intentions, planning to help the people, to better the world - before being dragged into the nightmarish existence of a Nazgul.
I know that Tolkien did not want others to play with his characters, and legally that book could not have been approved by "Tolkien estate", but it was written so well, so believable, with so much respect for the world he created, that I honestly wish it would become the canon. It would definitely provide a many times better material for an adaptation than anything Amazon's dumb and talentless hacks pulled out of their rear end.
Good to see Mauler around. I miss his massive video essays so much.
I don’t cause I rewatch them every half a year or so
I remember seeing a super early CAM version before it hit theaters in my country. I was too young to really appreciate Fellowship in theaters the year before - I needed that time leading up to Towers to process what I'd seen (not to mention all the times my friends and I would reenact the cave troll scene on the playground) to really get what LotR was and realize how much it had influenced me.
Strictly speaking Gandalf *did* die.
noting strictly about it. he and the balrog killed each other and god gave Gandalf a one-up bonus
@@_Loadie Yep. God said "Holy sh*t my son, that was an epic battle. Here's a promotion."
Andy Serkis does great Gollum impressions on Colbert!
I don't think it's an "impression" when Andy does it 😄
@@fazdoll It's fine, just keep him away from jewelry stores.
After bingeing most of your vids in about a week, I came to genuinely respect your passion for storytelling and knowledge of how it should be done. I agree with your emphasis on well-written, believable characters that you can enjoy going on a journey with. And the deepest, most fundamental aspects of your criticism have inspired me to finally do something. Something I knew I wasn’t ready for when I first imagined it.
For the last 20 years, I have written roughly 1 million words for friends and family, with the simple purpose of earning adequate skill at storytelling. I honed my writing, and even ultimately benefited from deep, painful personal struggles, so that I could finally tell a specific short story. It complements and builds up one of your favorite films. And, incidentally, it also showcases many examples of genuine masculinity displayed in a variety of ways.
Further, I feel it sets a very high bar for what respectful, quality “fanfiction” should strive to be. Upholding a beloved work. Understanding it, valuing it, and forgiving any supposed flaws. Contributing a modest addition to someone else’s great legacy. Underscoring and deepening the arc of an already beloved character. Teaching the same positive lessons with the same noble themes, in a slightly different way. Honoring the work, the creator of that work, and all those who have come to love it for what it is.
I strove to keep it focused, purposeful, limiting it to just 22,000 words. It may not be perfect, but it certainly tries to be. I hope you will consider giving it a read. Based on what you’ve shown everyone of your true self (behind your hilarious outward persona), I believe you will approve of these efforts. You may be uplifted and proud for having put forth the time to read it. And you will then enjoy going back to watch your favorite trilogy yet again, perhaps getting even more out of the experience.
The tale is humbly posted, amidst countless others, on fanfiction.net, under the title “The Children of Rohan,” by WillDreamer.
Awesome stream gentleman!
Anne Rice's "Vampire Chronicles " does an excellent job of portraying the downside of immortality.
You, loquacious sirs, have made my day…well, twice, if I’m honest. Listened to this two times as LOTR is an annual re-watch and has been since forever. Enjoyed the conversation between y'all and gained a new respect for AZ and Gary. Drinker and Mauler I’m already a devoted listener/watcher of all your content and have commented on that prior. Meandering tangential conversations aside (lol), you’re spot-on about what makes a great story, especially in film. Keep up the fine work, good sirs.
lol at Gary's jab at Jeremy XD. I fully agreed tough
i Grew up near big Sur, in Monterey/Carmel, CA. anytime there were bad storms and the roads washed out people who lived in big sur were cut off and there were kids in my high school that missed up to several weeks/months of school
This movie has so much scenes that gives you goosebums. Merry talking to Pippin: The fires of Isengard will spread, and the forests of Tuckborough and Buckland will burn. And all that was once great and good in this world will be gone. There won't be a Shire, Pippin.
I love these talks and glad I came across them. These movies deserve to be appreciated, thank god for Tolkien and Peter Jackson. Also a fun fact you may not of heard is that Helm Hammerhand is actually a sound weapon designed to take advantage of the acoustics of the canyon, or so I've heard. That's how they were able to charge into the remaining horde as well. That's fucking badass eh?
As far as Smeagol vs Gollum, he had the One Ring for HOW LONG... and even after ALL of THAT, he ALMOST made it back out from under the influence of the One Ring. Imagine how strong his psyche was to last THAT long...
Gees AZ was so spot on and eloquent in his long speech! Star Trek (old) always made me question my beliefs and had so many stories where I challenged what I thought and it made me a better person.
I really like the supervillain with the cat. He makes me laugh and think.
Indeed... with the Rohirrim, it just shows how WELL TRAINED, and organized, because with ONE signal, they have their move down PAT.!.!.!.!
It's incrediable how spot on the bois were. I didn't even realize this was 6 months ago.
“We’re not getting stories, we’re getting messages” mic drop that fell through the stage, kept going through the basement, through earth’s core, resurfaced in China; and falls back through the core right into AZ’s hand. 2:08:20
Az is in New Zealand so it would end up in Spain.
So glad to hear someone else passionate about Elric. That series is amazing
We really didn't realise how lucky we were with these films? No sense of cynicism or skepticism, no modern political bullshit or "lessons" for us to be lectured to when we're just trying to be entertained.
No. Just pure, good old-fashioned entertainment. I feel like we've lost that completely now...
The films you are referencing are endlessly political and contain several moral messages and lessons, they are simply presenting such info in the traditional esoteric method of great Western art. LOTR comes off so well because Jackson was not too afraid to represent the story as Tolkien intended it....unlike the remake that is purely entertainment trash as you already mentioned.
I think they’re less inspired by politics and more by religion, but it’s so woven into the story to the point you don’t notice it, especially in the Lord of the rings. Yet looking at the Silmarillion knowing Tolkiens position regarding Catholicism and Paganism and it’s absolutely filled with Religious tones.
Yeah, I have to agree with the Drinker on how they handled the battle between the balrog and Gandalf the grey. I loved it as a kid, but in hindsight it may be better to handle it more like the drinker described.
I love maulers face in the thumbnail. Also i got a lighter with maulers face on it. Not exact but its a black menacing gas mask but i call it my mauler lighter.
I fucking love this, I mean don’t get me wrong I love when these guys trash the stuff that is trash, but theses guys are great because they praise the things that deserve to be praised.
Concerning letting Wormtongue go, in the books Wormtongue returned to Isengard way after the Ents destroyed it, meeting Treebeard, so in his own words, "My messages are of no use." It makes more sense than in the film.
I think Drinker’s interpretation of the elves being exhausted by life is incomplete. In the books its shown the elves get extremely excited by songs, music, poetry; art in general seems to breathe life into their souls
Edit: on a whole other topic, Brandson Sanderson should absolutely NOT finish GoT 😂 I love his books they’re awesome in terms of plot, setting and character arcs but his prose is so bland. His prose next to grrm is like a finger painting next to the cistine chapel. It would never work
That makes sense, considering music was the method of the world's creation in Tolkien's universe. And I agree, as much as I love basically everything Brandon Sanderson has ever done, he's a bad choice for finishing GoT, he's way too clean for one lol
I mean the high elves I would think. Remember they came to middle earth to stop Morgoth. Well he’s long defeated along with his servant. By the time his servant re-emerged there was barely any of them left. With the Silvans in the east I think it’s different as they find happiness in the forest
@@steffanyschwartz7801 true; but in the books remember the scene in the house of Elrond where the elves feast, sing and Bilbo reads his poems? They’re not totally austere. And the sylvans aren’t exactly young, Galadriel is older than Elrond I believe
@@maxroy5246 Galadriel is a Noldor, she rules the silvans. She is Feanor’s cousin and part of the reason he made the Silmarils
Sure it’s not like a Picasso next to a Warhol?
The Dead Marshes is my favorite part of the Two Towers, along with the Ent March to Isengard.
Real missed opportunity here, especially after the sensei names for the Cobra Kai episode:
One Drinker to Rule Them All
One Az to Find Them
One Nerd to Bring Them All
And in the Mauler Bind Them
The Two Towers is my favorite of the trilogy. In my opinion, it has an Empire Strikes Back vibe. It’s the darkest of three, everyone is in a dire situation but, they pull through in the end
For me this is hands down the best of the trilogy. The build up to the final battle, the battle itself. Everything was so meaty and substantial and so much more satisfying than the battle in ROTK. I think, for me it's down to the Uraks. Definitely more imposing and fearful than orcs or goblins!
Love these type of streams
Blaidd is great character, also finishing his little quest, you get sweet like sword and comes with an even sweeter ability.