Do you have the wrong table saw? A no-BS buyer's guide.
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
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My old neighbor told me when I was having to replace an old rotted, wooden 6' step ladder that broke (while I was on it!), to spend the extra money on quality. A new fiberglass ladder costed about $20-25 MORE than a new wooden ladder. I was VERY strapped for cash and didn't really have the extra money, but I also needed the ladder for my job.
Decisions...decisions...decisions....
I can't recall his exact words, but they were something like (speaking of spending more on quality) " ....you'll still have that ladder long after the purchase price is forgotten".
So, I sucked it up and purchased the fiberglass ladder. That was in 1989, and I STILL have that ladder.
Those words have carried me through many purchases since that day. Maybe they could help somebody who's struggling with a similar decision today.
Thank you, Mr. Barthlett. Rest In Peace
I very much appreciate your videos. I have worked with wood both professionally and as a hobbyist for 50 years. Your videos are informative, straight forward, and done very well. Your table saw video is spot on. Well done!
Thanks for this review. My current saw is a very old Rockwell with original parts.It helped me raise my family for the past 40 yrs, and I love it. Of course, I've kept it in perfect running order. Not just a saw, an old friend that I will never get rid of. Still does amazing work!
I just started the wood working hobby. I consider myself a diyer right now, but will eventually would like to build small cabinets and decorative furniture. I know I have a long road of learning, and most times the information out there are diluted and confusing.
Your videos are concise, and professionally presented. No nonsense sales push, gimmicks, and mindless rants.
Thank you for your dedication to the wood working craft.
Sincerely,
wood working noob
As a fellow noob myself with only 2 semesters of woodshop and years between practice, my advice is to practice. I watched all sorts of videos before getting back into the swing of things, but you learn best from your own failures. Soaking up all of this new information is one thing, but being able to recall and apply it with skill takes practice.
This comment is 2 years old. If you've stuck with the hobby; please share what you have learned on this topic.
Cant say enough of how much I enjoy your Videos. Thanks for posting this one.
One thing I want to suggest. The motors on some older saws. The motors are vented to the atmosphere. Some folks end up replacing motors that act up. A good dusting with forced air fixes most of them. I’ve picked up a few Craftsman 10 inch models that people game up on. Blew out the motor and oiled it well and they came to life. Great channel. GO WINGS.
Thanks for this post! I'm a DIY beginner and I especially appreciate the comment about waiting to buy instead of buying a cheap model that may be a bad purchase.
This is brilliant advice and articulately presented. Hybrid saws aren't something I commonly see in my usual haunts, but you've convinced me to be patient and hang on for a decent one. Cheers, James!
More good advice-thank you. I had just about settled on a hybrid saw. I think it’s right for my purposes!
Best overview and and explanation I’ve seen or heard,
Thank you for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Well said. After investing in (what is essentially) a hybrid saw about 25 years ago, I realize this thing will outlive me. The fence is great. It is heavy enough internally not to need any alignment issues and after four houses it is still on its original motor.
Hey James, thanks for taking the time and effort to produce this excellent video instructions on the different categories of table saw and your advice on which to purchase.
James your channel is amazing, the information is always right on point and I think your delivery is one of the best on CZcams. Your videos are concise and the delivery is near perfect. You don't waste time trying to be too funny or show repetitive tasks ad nauseum, such as drilling multiple holes, you get to the point and give extremely detailed information when needed. Thank you so much you are amazing.
Awesome advise. I love your videos, James. I wish I could apprentice under you, but at 68 years old I suppose it will have to be in the next life.
This info is pure gold, Stumpy! I started out with a Craftsman contractor saw, and upgraded the fence. It serves me well. Thanks! And a special thanks for your videos on table saw safety!
Little late to the party here but how did you upgrade the fence on yours?
Great advice on the pros and cons of each level of saw. Invaluable as I look to progress past a portable saw. Thanks
Love your videos guy! Always informative. Keep them coming. You’re a natural at this too by the way.
you broke it down so simply that even I could understand it. Love this video. I was going to get another job site saw but youve convinced me to save up for a good contractor saw. Maybe one day Ill get a hybrid
I started woodworking a couple of months ago and wasted my money on a ridgid portable saw. It takes me a hell of a lot of time to adjust the fence, the rivig knife is aligned with the blade. Complete waste, I wish I saw this video earlier, I would have saved up my money for a real contractor saw.
Thanks from the UK getting back into it after 10 yrs out and 25yrs non stop before that. I had a full on pro shop with 6 guys at one stage, then life got in the way! 😁 now coming back small scale and more lightweight after advocating cast iron dinasaurs in my former years. Ive subscribed to your broad outlook and obvious wide ranging experience. Thankyou and kind regards Stuart Bell
I love all of your videos, I am just a beginner but I find your videos intriguing. I am retired professional musician and teacher and find just viewing and listening to your rationale on choosing workbenches, saws, clamps are extraordinary.
Unbiased, solid advice! Bravo!!
your videos and advices are very professional.
thanks
Stumpy. I've been a DIYer forever. I build & fix just about everything not electronic. Cabinetry & simple furniture manufacture are satisfying hobby & mental therapy. Although have been watching you & others on CZcams for years, I always enjoy your detailed, well thought out explanations from sharpening to tool selections. Thank you! Thank you!!
Great video. As an amateur woodworker and cabinetmaker, I splurged for a DeWalt DW746 with sliding miter table and mobile base and never regretted it. Awesome saw that has always done what I asked of it. I imagine other hybrid saws would do a great job as well, but I have never regretted the investment in the cast iron sliding miter table. This thing is crazy solid. Carry on!
Good advise. I used a contractors saw for more than 30 years and, except for the terrible fence, it served me well.
.
that_G_EvanP Spell check strikes again. 😁
Your information is so valuable I can’t believe it’s free. There is so much to consider when buying a table saw, I appreciate so much your attention to detail and making an average DIYer like me able to understand. Thank you.
Thanks for the vid. I was just about to buy my first table saw, a contractor saw, now I’ll hold off an investigate the hybrid ones. Never heard of them. Thanks again, great advice.
Beautiful advice. I purchased the delta hybrid table saw and works well for my woodworking needs.
I’ve watched this three times now. Still haven’t made my mind up as it’s a mind field out there, but this channel has been a real help. Thank you
That was one of the most informatiive videos per minute I have ever seeen.
This is exactly what I was looking for. This video is very informative and useful, especially for someone who is just starting in woodworking. I appreciate you! Thanks for sharing and God bless!
Thank you James for time and effort put forth on your videos and sharing your opinion based on experience, is much appreciated!! 👍👍
I use a DeWalt 8 1/4" Compact jobsite saw for most of my work... It is tiny, but the fence is astounding, and it has plenty of power to tear through a 3 inch plank of walnut. But I had to build a bench to extend its work area. Looking to step up, but I have very limited space. Useful video!
I have the cordless version of that saw as well, along with the 40 tooth DeWalt blade that makes cleaner and slower cuts. The cordless version has a very interesting motor; it's a brushless variable speed variable load motor with an electric brake, and gives this particular saw some very different characteristics that I don't see in other saws.
I hope the starters watch this, very good advice, buy the best you can afford. I could stand a sawstop today but at close to 80 yrs I believe I`ll stay with the old Ridged
I disagree. You should buy the best you can’t afford☺️
Also, if you're close to 80, safety is even more important. I went for Sawstop because I am 80 and my eyes, arms, fingers, etc. are not as good as they used to be, but I still love woodworking.
Does your Ridgid happen to be the R4512? If so what are your thoughts on it?
I began to think about a tablesaw around the time SawStop started making the news in the early 2000’s. I told myself I wouldn’t get anything else even if it took a LOT of waiting and saving. Well it took 15 years and a couple thousand bucks but now I have one and am quite impressed. That company does NOT compromise on their product - easily worth the money you think at first is being paid at a safety premium. The safety is a bonus as far as I am concerned.
Great overview! Thanks for the complete rundown. I especially like the advice about after-market fence systems. I never thought of that.
Finally, a discussion about table saws that didn't say you're a fool for even looking at anything but a Saw Stop. I know they are great saws and I think you might even have one, but thanks for the recommendations James. As always, much appreciated.
Saw Stop is a very good saw, but when you start getting into that money, it's worth looking at euro saws. Love Felder/Hammer.
But you are foolish if you don’t realize that anything besides SawStop is too dangerous to use on a regular basis. You are kidding yourself to not factor in the cost of accidents times their probability.
@@garnetsteen I strongly disagree. Good practices go a long way. Yes, there are people who follow bad practices, and have been lucky. Many even promote those bad practices here on YT, and if you call them out, attack you with "Safety Sally" comments and the full wrath of their rabid supporters. I feel like that cavalier attitude does more to promote unsafe practices than tools to to promote them.
But there are lots of channels here that promote good practices like the right kinds of push sticks, using riving knives, guards, etc. The good riving knife and optional overhead guard do more to protect you on the Saw Stop than the emergency braking mechanism, because amputations (partial or full) of the finger are not the worst or anywhere near the most common saw accidents. The SawStop protects against only one kind of accident, which is relatively rare compared to kickback. It's a good saw, but the religion around it is annoying.
I'm a big fan of proper euro sliding table saws. I know not everyone is. But f you look at those saws, the workflow is different enough that you don't run into many of the same issues (required brake for the blade. better riving knives, overhead guards, different operating position, workpiece carried by the sliding table, no need for sleds, better dust collection, etc.). In the UK and Europe, they're also available for relatively cheap across a broad quality range, whereas only the high-end ones tend to be available here in the US (except for with Grizzly, which has a decent lower-price one). I favor these over the Saw Stop because of all the reasons mentioned above, and how they contribute to an overall higher safety level vs the Saw Stop.
Don't get me wrong: the SawStop is a really good saw, but it's a bit of a strongly-funded sock puppet religion here on YT. There are very few channels here recommending Saw Stop who actually had to pay for it themselves. I've found that few actually disclose that openly as well, which is a bad practice.
Anyway, this is old, but the database is online and you can build your own queries. www.popularwoodworking.com/article/table-saw-injury-numbers-in-perspective/ . (It's interesting to note that doors cause more finger amputations than table saws.)
Pete Brown why?
What do the European saws have that ours do not?
Thanks for the encouraging advice! I started with a cheap job site saw. It was great when just starting out but as my skills and projects became more refined, I discovered I needed more precision and consistency. I think this is just natural. That said, if you only intend to build decks and patios, a sturdy job site saw will likely be perfect. Getting the right tool for the job doesn't always mean going bigger or more expensive.
What did you replace your job site saw with
@@zachofalltrades6116 My next saw was a Ridgid 4512. Definitely an upgrade. Now an old 3hp Unisaw. Looking at a Harvey Alpha or Sawstop PCS next.
Great advice James, I used a old Sears 1.5hp table saw for years and built a truck load of quality stuff with it. Sold it and got a used
Grizzly 10" 3 HP 240V Cabinet RIGHT-Tilting Table Saw, now this thing is smooth! Wish I would have up graded long before I did. Thanks for posting.
Thanks. This video led me to spend some time watching classifieds. I found a used contractor saw with a cast iron top and wings and restored it. It is such a good saw, and I saved a lot of money going this route.
I just recently found a craftsman 113.something after a year of searching for only $150. I built John heitz wood fence which works surprising well. polished the cast top and waxed it good. I love that saw. thanks james. good video
TheMatterManipulator those are the last version of the old belt drive BT3000 and BT 3100 series. They’re so famous they have their own forum and fan base among contractors. Really good saw, but for a portable saw, takes allot of footprint in the truck.
I’ve had 2 of these. Now have something similar, with muuuuch more torque. Arguably strongest saw u can find that’s portable and is aimed at contractors. Skilsaw sp-99.
Large table,
Blade set towards back of table so great for crosscut sleds.
Rack-punion fence ( like dewalt, but better. Larger gears and lass slop)
And most importantly, blade comes up to 3-5/8”
And will plow thru a pressure treated 4x4 without a sweat.
I’ve plowed thru 3-1/2” oak with it, and the thing just chews thru it.
The timing on this video is perfect. Thank you
I have a12” craftsman from 1973 that I got when it was new it has 2 hrs motor on it ! With a Vega fence system! You are right it does the job for me!!!🤗 Thanks Jim for sharing! Good words to think about!
Thanks Jim. I was lucky to have bitten the bullet and bought a Delta unisaw about 20 years ago. Could not be happier. The quality is still there. I added a woodpecker router fence and lift. Far and away the most productive tool in my shop.
Really appreciate your objectivity in this video. Good content and sound advice! Buy the best saw you can afford and can fit in your shop as a hobbyist. But there is probably a ceiling where the costs begin to outweigh the benefits.
I only make bird houses but bought a ICS 5hp with sliding attachment 52"
I don't disagree with anything here really, But I will say that if you have more time than money even the cheapest jobsite saw can get the job done. I grew up working with my father with an $89 builder square table saw and ran it for 20 years until the motor burned out. It was junk, objectively speaking, but you could take your time making sure the fence was lined up and use clamps to hold it in place, build extension tables as needed, we had it on a rolling stand that bolted against the work bench as a table. Never had a problem with 4x8 sheets or dadoing cuts. Probably not enough power for hardwood, but it was just fine, if a bit tedious and annoying to set up cuts. I suppose my point is you just might be better off having a junk table saw today that you can make do the job if you work with it rather than having no saw for a year or two while you save up. and the $100 won't set you back that far on saving for a better saw.
Thank you this comment
While doing interior carpentry work to my home I bought a table saw at Wal Mart for less than 200. I was only wanting to be able to make square cuts along with 45s to cut my own window trim. I'll say for what I needed I was surprised at the accuracy and ease of cutting straight and accurate. I made a side table same height and a couple jigs for specific cuts. It did all fine but the quality waned with time and I had to use square to check fence. The table also developed problems. It was however well worth the $ it cost and Id recommend it for this type job as well for a beginner. I was both and it helped me recognize what I liked or didn't as well as what all I could do if this was the only floor tool I had room to use. They all even the 189. dollar model can be dangerous and cut hands like wood. Use safely.
its a delight watching your videos and listening to your explanations!
James, great very useful video. Luckily I made the right choice of saw before seeing this video. I'm a homeowner DIY guy that started with a small 1950's vintage Craftsman cast iron top saw 30 years ago. Made the mistake of buying a portable saw that just wasn't accurate or powerful enough. Then I limped along with a newer Craftsman 10" with an aluminum top, it always needed realigning. So my search began for a new saw I knew I wanted a cast iron top and a good fence. I boiled it down to two hybrid models eventually settling on one. I couldn't be happier with it. The hybrid was the way to go. Cast iron top, great fence, solid steel base with dust collection and retractable wheels so it's easy to move around my small shop all for $600. Keep up the great vids.
Can you do a video for drill presses? Its hard to sift through all the trash products and your experience would be helpful
I went through the same. If you have a Northern Tool near you their drill presses are great and affordable.
Just wanted to say THANKS for the great advice on table saws and.....GO REDWINGS!!!!!
"REDWINGS” yuck, I prefer unpainted cast-iron wings which are usually grey... and NJ Devils ;-)
I find I keep coming back to this video.
And LGB!
Miss the old "chuck" Norris.
Thank you for your videos! I have learned so much and this video has helped us decide the table saw we need in our shop.
What a helpful and calmly delivered video. Thank you.
Thank you soooooo much for making a damn video that wasn't filled with sponsored BS, no tricks or games. You made a professional video that told exactly what needed to be said and plugged your material perfectly AND in a clear voice! The value of this video is well beyond (at this time) the 323,095 views. The 158 people that gave this video a thumbs down are clearly into harry potter coffee mug collectables and furious that their pokemon app will not load. Thank you again!
When I started woodworking several years ago it was my dream to own a cabinet saw. I started out with the Delta 36-725 as that was all I could afford and while it was a good saw, the runout at the arbor was always a problem. After owning it for a few years I lucked out when I found a mid 1990's Jet 3hp cabinet saw at my local government surplus auction site for a mere $250. It needed a lot of work as it was rusted, was missing the fence, needed motor bearings replaced, new starter, etc but after about another $300 I was able to get it running top notch. It has been a great saw and as luck would have it, the same location I got the Jet from led me to scoring a 1960's 3HP Rockwell Unisaw for a mere $125! This saw was in even worse condition that the Jet but after much hard work and care it looks beautiful. Now I have dedicated cabinet saws for ripping and cross cutting. I never would have imagined I would own two cabinet saws after always desiring just one. Keep your eyes open for deals everyone, they come around and you have to be ready to jump as soon as they do!
Zerostar369 what do you mean by “runout on the arbor”? I don’t know what that means.
Hi James, very informative short video as usual. I would like to thank you for it and to congratulate you in creating these kind of short diy videos that are quite useful for beginners like me. They stand out from all youtube diy woodworking stuff with a degree of professionalism. Thanks :)
Always enjoy your videos. I built your mini router table/router lift last year and love it. It works great with a router table I built that incorporates your sliding table concept.
HI, James. I really love your videos and the things you've built and designed. Regarding this video though, I have a question. Is the Sawstop professional a hybrid, or Cabinet table saw?
In other words. Do the trunnions and motor mount to an internal framework, Or do they hang from the under side of the top itself?
Thanks, and keep building more Awesome projects.
Doug
SS Pro is a full-on Cabinet saw. SS Industrial is also a cabinet saw, just beefier. Notably the Trunions are stout enough to handle the demands of the optional 7.5 HP motor, and the table is larger, thicker and heavier to withstand the greater forces involved.
I have had my Ridgid iron top table saw for 10 years, and I love it. It has wheels and a foot lever to roll it around, but is VERY stable, and accurate.
Amazing how much knowledge he has I love this channel
by far far far .... the best and most useful review of available table saws with PROs and CONs!!! Thank you for sharing your experience with everyone and just wandering that there's not so many views as it would deserve
i am goin to buy my first table saw, and for several reasons, i decided to go for a Metabo 254 m (thi si sthe mobile version). IT cam as a result of comparing over 15 saws from several brands. Metabo has many security and engine features (slow start, overload control, quick stop, quite good cutting capacity and some positive reviews. But after your video i am not so sure anymore. The saw will be built into a workbench, so the weight and vibrations should be sorted out and the extension as well.. Even Though it has pretty good results on precisions and the fence looks solid i am planning to replace it with an aftermarket one. However the main Cns i can see after "absorbing" your knowledge: aluminum but not iron casted table; seems that it's underpowered with only 1500W. Could you advice then on an alternative to my choice?
For the money and space limitations i will not go for anything in the cabinet class, but the Bosch GTS 635-216
with a disc smaller by 1/5 (8.5 inches against Metabo's 10 inches) has 1600W power and pretty much similar features. PLus the cutting capacity is only 1 cm difference (7 cm against 8 cm on Metabo saw. Well there si a more performant version of Bosch model GTS 10 J with 10'' disk and 1800W but still with an aluminium top.
Any hints would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks and regards,
V.
Thank you! I hadn't heard of hybrid saws. I am looking at selling my home and moving from a garage shop to one built into a 8.5 'X 24' box trailer.
"At least it was easy to throw away" That line caught me off guard & cracked me up.
I've been looking at the Sawstop brand personally. I need something slightly idiot proof.
If you haven't decided yet, I have used sawstops in a production shop before I started on my own; they are absolutely fantastic saws. Plenty of power, the safety feature is a great addition, the fences are great, dust collection is great. All around a fantastic saw. I have used their folding jobsite saw, the 3 hp cabinet saw, and the 5 hp cabinet saw.
I pulled the trigger and got the SawStop. Just want to be safe.
@@AlexPrivett Thanks for the reply. I obviously missed this awhile ago.
James knows his stuff. He's useful and informative. Keep them coming, James!! Thanks my man!
Your postings are actually fun to watch, especially for an amateur hour woodworker ike me. Thanks
I've used the same Harbor Freight portable 10" table saw for the last 13 years and it has held up to what I use it for. Would I love a cabinet saw? Hell yeah. But it is not in my budget. Great video.
@Harry Knows well, like I said, mine is much older, maybe the quality has dropped since I got mine, plus, I'm only on my second general purpose blade in the tool, seems to me that those guys who are always forcing a cut are using too much pressure whether it is a saw or a drill. Wears it the cutters quicker. I've always let the tool do it's job at its own pace. I rarely even use the dog's on a chainsaw. Sharp teeth and gravity does the job well enough. Of course you don't have gravity helping with a table saw cut, but light pressure greatly reduces burning in the wood and heat in the blade that allows it to dull more quickly. Thanks for the well wishes, that some day I can afford a better table/cabinet saw.
I love “A saw shaped object.”
I agree, learned this all the same way , use it daily, most important tool in my shop
Thanks James again for your great advice and knowledge. I will take some time now to look for the correct saw as you are right the last few I have purchased are really a waste of money unless you are doing general cuts
Many thanks love all your videos
You didn’t trash your first saw, I have it! Thanks for the video.
My progression: I started with the really tiny Bosch portable saw. It was pretty much unusable. Flimsy, impossible to keep things square and parallel, loud motor, tiny table with miter slots that were wildly out from 3/4". Next, I got an older used Ridgid contractor saw - cast iron top and extensions. A dream in comparison. But, no dust collection, the motor hung out the back, and most seriously the blade guard and splitter were an old design. To use a crosscut sled, the splitter/blade guard/anti-kickback pawls had to be removed. Taking this assembly off and replacing it frequently made it go out of adjustment relative to the blade. Worst of all, though, a few months ago I took the splitter assembly off to use the crosscut sled, and then - because I was overtired and thinking ahead to next steps in my project, I flat out forgot to put the splitter assembly back on before doing a pretty wide cut. HOLY COW - violent kickback. My hands were no where near the blade, but the kickback launched a piece of plywood into the wall behind me so hard that it left a big divot in the drywall. This scared the s**t out of me. I could not bring myself to do woodworking for over a week.
So a month ago I bought the current model of the Ridgid contractor saw. The top is cast iron, but the extension wings are sheet metal. The lift system is a bit worse than the old model, and I believe the drive mechanism makes the blade a little less stable than the old model. However, it has - wait for it - a riving knife that I (almost) never have to take off. It also has built in dust collection, and 30" (rather than the old model's 24") right rip capacity.
So far the saw has been a dream. Old online reviews of the say were not great, but Ridgid's QA seems to have improved. And, the price was lower than the fancy Bosch saw featured in Stumpy's video.
Cast iron and steel sheet metal top allows me to use my magnetic feather board - far easier to use than a feather board that fits in the miter slot. So, anodized aluminum tops suck IMHO.
Retro-fitted splitters mounted in the throat plate may be better than nothing. But I personally will never again use a saw without a riving knife.
Thank you for perspective. I will resign myself to only buy a used saw with a riving knife. Party on my friend.
This isnt really for you DJ; you sound experienced and know what you want; and I want it very clear im super on board with that! I just want a comment to help "clarify" things for those that may come across it. -> Riving knives *ARE* a great device to have installed; and you really should be aspiring to have a saw with one. That said, it is "ok" to not have a riving knife. Most issues come from a fence thats not squared up properly (even imperceptible amounts off) parallel to the blade, improper feeding of the wood, or a defect in the wood that causes it to close up after cutting (this is something you can observe quite easily. Sometimes the wood fibers create tension where the cut is, resulting in the ends that are cut to "come together" after the blade. This causes it to pinch on the blade, which can send it zooming across the room!). Zero clearance inserts also help; proper cutting techniques with a proper square fence goes further than a riving knife. Relying on a tool to make up for your work practices shouldn't really be the way to aspire your operations; at least not from a technical safety perspective. Riving knives are a relatively new addition to the table saw world; and much like the saw stop system, its not a "requirement" nor a replacement for proper operation. To those looking, YES, please get a saw with a riving knife, but also, dont pass up a good deal on an awesome vintage Delta with a solid cast iron top and 2hp motor because it doesnt have a riving knife either lol. Learn how to use it safely, learn proper techniques, make sure everything is dialed in as well as you can make it, and dont make risky cuts. I've used a saw without a riving knife for quite a long time, much as many others have as well. And for the love of god, always use a push stick and wear your PPE lol. If youre standing out of the line of fire, using a proper push stick system, wearing safety goggles, and are paying attention; even if something bad happens to the wood, you're just very much not likely to get hurt. Kickback accidents happen when people get "sucked in" to the blade or the piece gets ejected at high velocity back at you. People have died from this, that should be clear, but its very unlikely they were operating properly.
And to you! I owned one of those Rigid contractor saws myself a few years ago; was definitely the 24" model (Mine was the r4512; the new one is the r4520). Had a cast iron plate and the same stamped side pieces; I cant imagine those are changed lol. IF you havent, the single best thing I did to that saw was upgrading it to a biesemeyer fence. Im not sure if mine was just notably bad, if im just super picky, or if its really just a crappy fence (I have my ideas lol), but that fence was just not inspiring for me. Once I swapped the fence out with a biesemeyer from JET (it was a pain to install, but the difference was staggering), got some jigs and sleds made; that thing served me pretty well for a while. Wound up having to upgrade because the power was inadequate for the cuts I was doing (it'll do a 2x4" with a smile, but ripping Jarrah and other exotic super hard woods? Not so much lol). The capacity was fine for my uses; and I imagine 30" should cover pretty much everyone thats not an industrial worker for a while. Wonder if it would be worth while to upgrade the motor on it as well?
I noticed a lot of "bad reviews" were from people that didnt set the damn thing up lol. Sure, some tops werent flat, and thats a problem, but in every case home depot replaced them to my understanding. The rest of it I couldnt see anyone complaining about? Its a good saw, if I didnt get a great deal on an old school mahoosive 12" beast for 400$, Im pretty sure i would have hot rodded mine. If they'd upgrade to a biesemeyer, i think they'd have something real cool there.
@@JgHaverty Good points. I definitely have trouble now and again because the fence goes out of alignment. This takes a lot of fussy adjusting. The riving knife itself can also get misaligned; I think that is a consequence of the fence misalignment. What happens is that the work pulls one direction or the other when the fence goes out of whack. This can put a lot of lateral force on the saw blade, and on the riving knife, which is mounted on socket head screws. Worse, the misaligned fence can cause a skewed cut, and of course can increase the likelihood of kickback or some other mishap. I have learned to live with this, more or less, but I do sometimes have a bit of dread about using the saw. I had honestly forgot about the possibility of a fence upgrade. A Biesemeyer fence would be great, but I'm wondering about one of the more affordable upgrades from Busy Bee Tools here in Canada. Some research is in order.
@@djpenton779 Id be hard pressed to recommend you go find a "cheap fence" to replace your "cheap fence" if yuo catch my drift haha. Used ones pop up on amazon and ebay semi routinely; mine was from an overstock warehouse for like 100 bucks; but I had to supply the side rail (not a huge deal at all).
I remember hating that fence because of the exact things you're talking about. It would always seem to lock in askew no matter how much i tightened it. It got to the point where I did get some kick back from a longer board and i stopped using it all together lol. I actually took an an aluminum extrusion and just clamped it where I needed it to be for my cuts. (Most of my cuts are repeated numerous cuts of the same material, so its not too bad for me).
What drives me bonkers, I bought one of those hercules job site saws from harbor freight for some projects out and about and it irritates me to no end... the fence on it is proper decent lol. it locks perfectly parallel to the blade, doesnt wobble, doesnt deflect, and doesnt find itself askew either lol. If my "cheap" (it was like 350, not pocket change, but certainly not a full cabinet either) jobsite saw can make a reliable, useful fence... why the hell cant these other manufacturers do the same? haha Is what it is I guess, but its truly baffling. Im actually gonna have to take it apart and see how it works; because its honestly quite nice.
anyway good luck with your search; Im not gonna pretend to be an expert on every fence out there; so id just recommend you hop on a forum and ask around a bit. Be careful with reviews; and get more than one, because a lot of people have this weird "need" to "justify" their cheap purchase and explain how awesome it is, when its potentially quite not. Happens with table saws more often than people like to admit. "I have my vintage table saw and since it has a cast iron top, its QUALITY". NO mate, its just heavy lol.
This was very helpful. I need to upgrade my table saw and I think you've helped. Thank you
I bought a Delta industrial table saw from a guy that was moving out of state, he had lots of tools. this one was brand new , still in the box. Price tag on it. 600$. I got it for 400$. I was and still am stoked !
+Stumpy, thanks for the great vids ! Keep it up brother !
I see you know you’re hockey teams. Hopefully they have a good year this year. That is if there even is hockey this season.
Of course, I bought a Ryobi job site saw when I got started about a year ago. Given the cost involved and the budget I was working with, I don't know that I could have paid for a more expensive option. For now, I'm going to have to make this saw work. I just built it into a workbench which add length and width to the table of the saw so that should be helpful.
The same for me except I bot a skilsaw portable job site. While the fence is not in the same league as the more expensive saws it does stay square to the blade when locked down and will be easy to readjust if it does come out of line. With a good blade it has enough power to rip most hardwoods.
Yeah it's not a luxury saw, but it works, and it is as accurate as you are. That's what matters to me, at least.
Great comparisons of the pros and cons of various saws. I retired my Rockwell cast iron table saw for the Bosch saw you mentioned several years ago. I'm not a fine woodworker and have to store the saw in our shed and haul it out to the driveway along with a chop saw when needed. I miss the cast iron table but as you mentioned the old fence was pretty terrible, the Bosch is much better and being lighter makes moving it into and out of the shed much easier. The other benefit is the Bosch has a 10 inch blade. I cheaped out on the Rockwell 40 years ago and got a 9 inch blade.
My new favorite woodworking channel.
I didn't hear anything that was said. I was shocked and was viewing your background in your video in awe. So was table saw is the best? ;)
I want a cabinet saw, but pointless for me because I don't have a workshop. I have a Bosch 4000 because all my work is at jobsites and I have to be able to move it. Had it since 2007. I haven't had any trouble at all with the fence, but I've found that's got a lot to do with how it's handled. If I try to slide it by holding anywhere on the fence, it tries to skew. Hold ONLY on the handle end. Also, while sliding, I give very slight pressure inwards (toward the table), so it's only sliding on the T-head, not on the rear locking clamp. If I do those two tips, then it's always right on correct. (But now I think I need bearings for the motor. Starting to make occasional squeeling noise.)
Liquid Wrench puts out "Silicone Spray"... AND I use it fairly religiously on just about any application that involves both metal and plastic and/or rubber... such as electric motors with bushing or bearings or both.
The occasional squeal isn't necessarily "damage done"... but can come from dried dust in a bushing... or a dry bearing... A couple shots of silicone (while Power is OFF) and turn the blade manually can quiet the hell out of it... and at least buy you some time to get that bearing replaced. ;o)
Good video and good advice. I bought a Jet hybrid saw six years ago and haven't been sorry for one day since. Lots of board feet pushed through, just a little slower than a big saw.
Vintage contractors saw for me. Craftsman 113 with cast iron top, delta t3 fence, custom extension wings and better belt/pulleys. love the old thing, does everything I need it to and I have less that 400.00 into it.
same :D
I too have one of those old craftsman 113. Keep it clean and lubed. After market Vega Pro 52 fence - great guns. Also added the trunnion adjustment brackets. Can’t recall the name offhand. Very pleased. Only nits are insert location and size relative to the blade (blade sets too far back for a splitter), and the blade guard needs redesign to incorporate dust collection.
@@grobish PALS :)
The PALS kit is next on my list. Still got it to .002 accuracy without it but they are a pain to adjust
111,111 views. I'm glad i was able to witness that satisfying occurrence
Brandon Peterson and 11 thumbs up. I can’t change that!
I almost didn't like this... Because it had 11 & I was 12th
Very great information without a lot of unnecessary comments. Thanks
Appreciate the video. Definitely will help with my next table saw purchase.
I've been a pretty serious DIYer for about 15 years - currently remodeling my kitchen. I've learned the hard way to embrace the adage "buy once, cry once". When I started out, I cheaped out on many of my tools and suffered every time I used it, until I eventually bought the more expensive one anyway. Not planning to make that mistake with my table saw when I finally graduate from home projects to furniture building. I'll open my wallet, let Sawstop have their way with me, weep gently for a few days, then enjoy a few decades of stress free cutting.
Why Sawstop, and not a Powermatic or used Unisaw? I have teenagers that would like to build with me. So until someone breaks the monopoly, Sawstop is a no-brainer. Certainly easier than explaining nine fingered children to the wife.
I am with you. I am in my 60s and new to table saws. I also know I am slowing down, my balance and reflexes are not what they used to be, I did not see that one coming. I will spend the extra grand or so and feel better. I don't need any serious injuries at this point of my life, no one does.
I wept until my SawStop arrived. Now I am all smiles!!!
The saw i have is a dewalt dw745 its accurate its powerful it never has not pleased me and it rips through hardwoods with no problem
HI, James. I really love your videos and the things you've built and designed. Regarding this video though, I have a question. Is the Sawstop professional a hybrid, or Cabinet table saw?
In other words. Do the trunnions and motor mount to an internal framework, Or do they hang from the under side of the top itself?
Thanks, and keep building more Awesome projects.
Doug
Nice Video. I was recently in the market for a table saw when my grandfather heard about it and offered me his old contractor saw from what I would assume is the 60's or 70's. After seeing the belt drive and the hanging motor for the first time, I half expected it to break in the first week. Instead, it's one of the best presents and one of the most useful tools I have ever been fortunate enough to receive. After the experience, I completely agree with your advice. And I'm going to follow your advice on finding a new fence, Thank you
Thanks for the sound advice.....You helped me make a decision and I've gone for a hybrid saw !
Stay far, FAR away from anything with a proprietary miter slot. I got a Craftsman portable saw that is fairly decent overall, except for the T-shaped miter slot that prevents putting in any aftermarket accessories, such as a better miter gauge (because the one that came with it is junk).
Even if I cut off the wings on the slot, I still couldn't fit aftermarket accessories in it because it's too narrow.
Everyone starts out with the table top 10" toy saw. That's a given and also forgiven. You want real results you buy into a quality 12" cabinet saw. I personally don't have the space for one in my own shop but wish I did. They are much more accurate and reliable. Yes they cost more but if you're a seasoned woodworker you know this is the best investment in your business/hobby you can make. It will give you decades of service and will be a value even when sold every time.
I have a 12" 3hp sliding table saw... 35 years and going strong.
I run 10" blades.. never found a need for 12".
Love the description - "A saw shaped object" - Perfect!!
Great Info and spot on I have had my unisaw for close to thirty years with the 52 inch fence and it's like an old pair of sock's .Wouldn't trade it for anything
I waited until it went on sale and bought the ridgid R4512 hybrid saw. Best bang for $500 IMHO. 240v or 110v
I have same but fence is a pain.
Delta has a hybrid saw at Lowes for same price range but much better fence
Returned my R4512 today. Alignment issue still exists in 2019, ridiculous. Never buying another tool from the orange store
John - The trade off is a much better fence for worse dust collection. I chose the Delta got the fence.
Had a DELTA from 1998 ,somewhat portable, integrated motor/arbor with a very good fence. The motor self destructed within 3 yrs of moderate use. 2nd motor (cost was near saw replacement) developed a vibration pretty quickly. Sold it and replaced with a ridgid 4513 portable which has served well through 2 complete kitchen makeovers. Alignment and fence were very good and held 1/64” or better across 36” consistently. I use a sled for more precision on rails and stiles drawer construction. Could be just luck and perhaps the newer DELTAS are more reliable but the motor problems gave me no confidence in the brand.
I've got a dewalt jobsite saw and the fence isn't bad and it can be adjusted/calibrated if it starts to go crooked. I don't use it everyday but when I do use it the saw works well enough for me..
Side note: I used my buddies Mastercraft saw once and the fence was TERRIBLE 😂
I bought a Delta Contractors saw 40+ years ago. I spent some time adjusting/aligning the fence that came with it and have been successfully using it since. I have used it to build numerous cabinets, projects etc. That saw today, is in pristine condition and could easily go another 40+ years. I consider it, along with the other tools that I purchased then. to have been excellent values. Best wishes.
Another great video. Thanks for the free lesson, Professor Nubs!
Alert: Dewalt contractor saw arbor will not accept anything other than a minimal thickness dado stack. Ask me how I know. 😢
I didn't know DeWalt made a contractor saw. I've seen DeWalts jobsite saws, and they're great. Summit stumpy kinda skipped a level of new contractor saws
I just bought a 1954 Delta Milwaukee contractor saw for 70 bucks. Had to drive, just like you said, but WELL worth it! Sweeeeet saw I tell you. (VERY heavy, too!) Man, I just got lucky on that one. Great and informative presentation!
Great video!!! I can speak from experience the advice to get a contractor saw and upgrade the fence is solid!
Thanks for the education. The first saw you showed was mine. Everything you mentioned, is true. Can't wait to invest in something worth my time. Wished I had seen your video a year ago.
Many thanks for another super survey of the field; in this case table saws. Having used all of the types of saws you mentioned in my 55 years of woodworking, I can attest that everything you said was right on the money. My first table saw, for my basement cabinetmaking shop, was a 1960's vintage Craftsman contractor's saw, with a cast iron table, flimsy stamped steel extension wings and (as you warned) a very poor fence. The fence had to be manually adjusted, front and back, to be sure it was parallel to the blade--and then one had to verify that the width of the cut was still correct. Often this was a circular procedure. All that was corrected when I purchased a Biesemeyer after-market fence. I still have that fence and use it on my Delta Unisaw--40 years after I gave my Craftsman table saw to charity. Yet, as you also said, the contractor's saw is not a bad machine. The the organization I gave it to used it to do all the carpentry required to build a complete house.