F-16 declares minimum Fuel | Smart ATC coordinates for Aerial Refuelling
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- #atc #emergency #f16
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• F-16 declares minimum ...
The ATC audio is downloaded from Liveatc.net
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#f16 #f16fighter #emergency
A matter of fact “yes” from Venom. Could tell he was hurtin’ for gas and this was a mental load off for him. Nice job by ATC
Great ATC
Felt that "YESSSS!" in my soul.
I don't get that, though. If you have gas to land, just go land. Refueling isn't guaranteed and then you have less gas.
Unless low altitude weather was a factor, landing is much higher percentile success than refueling.
ATC realizing it was an option was great on them, I just don't understand why the F16 accepted it.
@@zachansen8293 AR-609 starts about 40nm NE of SYR. My guess is the F-16 was much farther away to the NE than that and was really stretching it. If that's the case, the graphic doesn't really do the situation justice as it makes it seem the F-16 flew past SYR, tanked up, then diverted. If you put it in the correct geographical perspective, it might make more sense.
@@zachansen8293 What happens if he has to go around? You can *never* have too much fuel except when you are on fire. The turbojet burns a way more fuel down in the weeds than up in the _clear blue yonder_ so if they had to go around for any reason then he would know he wasn't going to flame out and have to make a _laundry letdown._
ATC guy deserves a "thank you" backseat Viper ride for that one.
Straight up. You would have lost the F-16 if not for their awareness and quick reaction.
D.O.D - what's one tank of gas compared to one F-16? Pay the man. It's good PR.
ATC will show up to the flight line with 2 5gal gas cannisters... just in case 😂
YES!
@@flake8382OK, not clear they’d have lost it, but definitely sounds like it would have been tight. Wonder how the Viper got in that situation.
@@john-bloss Small fuel tank, thirsty engines, could have been weather changes that caused it to use more fuel than planned,
You could feel that "YES" fron the F-16 pilot.
He said "Bring them to me immediately" lolll
ATC did an outstanding job with situational awareness and getting those tankers involved. Amazing job by all.
Very nicely done
what if he gets there and they have different connections
@@jamescollier3 Then they ask him what universe he comes from, and ask if he comes in peace.
@@jamescollier3 He already said that Bison flight was looking for some other F-16s, and Venom was an F-16, so he knew they were already setup for refueling Air Force aircraft. Try to keep up.
@@jamescollier3 All U.S. Airforce uses boom refueling connections. U.S. Navy uses basket-probe connections. The newer KC-46 Pegasus (U.S. Airforce) is capable of refueling aircraft using both a boom and a basket configuration.
As a former boom operator on KC-135R, exceptional job by all.
Great job done by KC crews
@@Flight_Follower not a great job, standard day for our military.
Why would the F16 prefer tanking vs landing?
Dido! Former Boom Operator / 41st ARS, Griffiss AFB, NY
@@zachansen8293 because if he could land safely in SYR for any reason, now he has the fuel to divert to another location. If he didn''t get the fuel, he sounded like he was committed to going into SYR no matter what. Refueling gave him options if things didn't work out.
That was job well done all the way around.
My god, competence is wonderful to witness.
Fantastic job done.
I'm not sure that it was a fantastic job all around. Seems to me that mistakes were made to get the fighter into that low fuel situation to begin with. This is peace time over the USA - absolutely no reason to have that situation develop in the first place.
@@aebalc I was just referring to the situation highlighted.
“Would you be willing to refuel..g-give him ahh a a lil fuel 🥹”
Lil guy just needed some food, glad there was plenty to share 🤭❤️
👉👈
I guess that part was the one thing there was no standard vocabulary for, great job by everyone involved.
When your setting up some poor sap with a date. Hahah
Not only that ATC was extremely competent, but he also carefully chose his words so not to add any pressure on the pilots decisions. Perfect.
Yes, great job by ATC to provide more options.
That controller needs an award nomination. Well done!
@2:03 “MARSA”: is an acronym for Military Authority Assumes Responsibility for Separation of Aircraft. MARSA procedures are used when military aircraft must operate in close proximity and with close coordination. Under such conditions, it may be impractical for standard civilian air traffic controllers to ensure safe separation of the aircraft. MARSA procedures delegate the separation responsibility temporarily to the military authority operating the flights, thereby relieving ATC of the separation workload. When operations in close proximity have concluded, the designated military authority relinquishes responsibility back to ATC, and normal ATC procedures resume. Hooah!
@@jamielancaster01 yes getting two planes close enough to refuel would normally be a MASSIVE fail by ATC.
Hence a formal way to say “you’re on your own” from ATC.
This is a blatant copy/paste from wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARSA_(aviation)
@jakint0sh so you actually took time out of your day because you wanted to prove that someone sharing information from the internet used Wikipedia to do so...by going to Wikipedia to share that they shared Wikipedia information. To each their own I guess lol.
I had a similar issue last month. Very low on fuel. Really sweating. Luckily, I saw this Shell station just 100 yards away at my 3 o'clock. I fueled her up, got me some Snicker bars, and I was good to go. Thank's Shell guys! 😂
Going to bet you had no altitude to glide to the nearest parking lot, too? That's rough, buddy.
I take it the approach waypoint was PUMPS.
Did you receive vectors to the nearest available pumps and did FTC roll the trucks for you?
@chrisc2683 They said I could take any normal gas pump. They did give me a number to call, though. 😅
@@rudiklein 😂😂😂
This controller is next-level calm, clear, situational aware and professional.
And by the sound of his voice, you know he has some days of experience...
How did you expect him to respond?
The pilot only took a short time to answer the controller about coordinating with the tanker. If I recall correctly, the one-word answer was yes, and it was quick.
You are right. Quick and good decision
For those that don't know landing a F-16 engine out is a real PITA even after landing. The EPU (Emergency Power Unit) of the F-16 is a hydrazine fueled unit and requires a special hazards material emergency team response. Having extra fuel and not having to deal with starting up the EPU is quite the burden relief for the pilot.
Having had to ship them from Spangdahlem yes. I agree.
Thanks for the info. Hydrazine is nasty stuff.
How often do they fire them up to make sure they are operational for when they are needed?
Oh yeah. All he** kind of breaks loose when they have to engage the EPU. Weather goes on alert. Any unburned Hydrazine has to be estimated. It’s a real mess to clean up after they land. What’s the latest design time? 15 minutes?
@@ck867You don’t.
Military Authority Assumes Responsibility for Separation of Aircraft or MARSA.
That controller was a stud setting that up so quickly.
Complete gangster. Listening to highly trained people work together to solve complex problems rapidly without any bs gives me goosebumps. Total pros.
MARSA is invoked by the tanker and is completely normal for any refueling operation. Allows the participating aircraft to join up without it being a loss of separation for ATC. This controller is a stud for how calmly and efficiently he came up with a solution to help Venom out, but MARSA is just a formality
Methinks this ATC was a former AW&CS console operator. No one can manage military like that without some kind of problem. That was as clear cut as it can get. They could have easily brought up TACAN and navigate their way into rendezvous after receiving clearance for approach to precontact.
I was wondering the same thing and was looking through the comments to see if anyone had made that guess.
@gregheyheyhey I probably answered my own question on this, and it's the congested airspace and tight rules that even the military has to adhere to while in a peacetime state.
Yeah. He sure sounded like awacs.
Agreed. Ran that intercept like a boss, even gave him the lead instead of direct to the tankers….WITH an ETA. Solid work by ATC dude
The KC135 doesn't have TACAN though.
KC10 and KC46 do.
I spent my career as a KC-135R navigator starting in SAC sitting alert. I miss flying and being around the squadron every single day. Great job to everyone that had a part in this refueling!
rickdemars8909 I was also a KC-135 navigator. I went from active duty to the ANG so I got to fly in A's, E's, and R's. I miss those days too.
Both the creators of this channel happens to be C-130 navigators
Nice to hear from you guys!!!
So PIC Venom 01 had some 'splaining to do in debrief. Then he gets used as the focus of the next day's safety briefings. AND he has to buy all the drinks at the O club. Outstanding, Venom 01. 😁
He owes Bison drinks too.
Didn't sound that way at all to me. It seems that he was on a divert rather than on recovery to his planned destination. Even when you divert to a pre-planned alternate the fuel plan is only to arrive at the alternate with the minimum fuel required. Taking the tanker took this event from a tense 'must make this happen' approach, that requires others to get out of the way, into a regular one with a range of options available.
He was minimum fuel due to diverting from another airport due to low ceilings at his original destination. He was searching for another airport where we could safely land. Was he sweating? Yes. Was this out of the ordinary? No.
Source: am ATC and speak to Venom flights weekly.
Could be. But knowing aviators, a few will try to call him "Mr drama queen" just to chide him; "help me, I need fuel!" 😄. So brutal.
You’re suppose to have an alternate + 30min fuel. Sounds like he loitered a bit too long or spent too much time down low . Outside of a mechanical issue he certainly is going to have explaining to do.
As a USAF GCI (ABM/WD), that was pretty damn close to a perfect set of calls. Good for this ATC, and thanks to the tankers crews accepting the AdHoc refueling
Hard to feel the severity of this situation. The controller did a heck of a job recognizing it and reacting to it. Unsung heroes. Nice job, sir.
We probably don't have the original emergency call as bingo fuel is def mayday on a fighter.
This was some of them best teamwork I’ve seen! Excellent.
Venom was in deep doodoo. He knew he wasn't going to make it back... until the tanker came up on freq.
That was the most affirmative "YES" I think I've ever heard.
"I'd rather eject than be forced to land at Syracuse!"
Minimum fuel means you are going to cut into your reserve, not that you're not going to make it back. Minumum fuel is VERY different than mayday fuel.
@@zachansen8293 It was later stated that he was bingo fuel. That's close enough to start squirming.
@@-108- The pilot never said bingo fuel. ATC did. It is entirely possible ATC just made that up. Also, you set bingo for a reminder that it's a good time to turn back, not that it's even going to be a "minimum fuel" situation.
BINGO is a number where you do not cut in to your reserves. This pilot was below bingo as they declared minimum fuel.
@@zachansen8293 You are partially correct, but I'm not going to argue with you, since you believe you know it all... whilst you don't. Read more.
I attended a talk at a air museum that was holding a reunion for Vietnam era pilots. Several of the Vets had their leather jackets with all the various squadron patches. One guy had a Texaco logo patch square in the middle of the back of his leather jacket. I asked him about it, thinking he might have been a corporate pilot for Texaco. His answer was pretty funny. He said all fighter aircraft start thinking about fuel, right after take off or within about an hour or so into the mission. When they get close to "Bingo", they routinely would say, "Let's go Texaco" meaning they needed to find a tanker.
There are tankers that operate in Nevada/NM region that use the TEXACO call signs. The BISON call out kept throwing me for a loop since it was also the ASCC for the Soviet M-4 strategic range bomber.
NKAWTG N, Nobody kicks ass without tanker gas. Nobody
Bison 21 hanging out to make sure Venom makes it to the field is awesome
Great SA by the ATC. Plus the willingness for "bootleg" AR to prevent the potential loss of a F-16. That's why No one Kicks Ass Without Tanker Gas!
Someone should nominate this controller for one of the Air Traffic Control awards given out by the ATCA every year.
They all got awards in 2019; look up "2019 - Winners of the 15th Annual Archie League Medal of Safety Awards" their names are: " Jeffrey Aulbach, Neil Cóspito, and Michael Jacobson, Boston Center (ZBW)"
WOW... that Center controller better get the award for ATC of the year. That F-16 driver was CLEARLY on the edge and worried. Heads up doesn't begin to describe what that Boston Center controller did. Great Job...
Awesome SA from ATC. Loved the creativity.
Great ATC.
The right Men with the right Tools and the right Mindset.
Badass.
Tankers leading the way!! Amazing job!
2 key groups that keeps the military moving... Coms and supply! With out the signal corp orders do not get sent... With out the supply group goods and people do not move....
Amazing work by the traffic controller.💯
The best
This should be an ATC training example.
Outstanding job by ATC. Someone owes him a bottle. Bold move coordinating military assets as a civilian ATC. There is always somewhen out there at the ready to be butt hurt about something like that, and that was the absolute right call. In the back of his mind, he had to know someone might disagree with him initiating the coordination but he sounded very ready to wear that if it came to it. Fantastic to know their are people with that brain power deconflicting our air space and watching over our pilots.
I get the impression somehow that the controller is an airforce veteran...
@@dasy2k1 I suspect you are right. He knew the lingo too well. And what it meant to hear a worried Air Force PIC.
This is just what I need when I’m driving down the motorway and half the fuel stations are closed for a public holiday
That was some solid fuckin' brainwork from Boston. Brilliant. MAD props to Boston center.
Impressive ATC handling of this. Professional with humane understanding of the potential bad ending. Well done. I know who I'd like to have in my corner for any emergency.
That controller needs an award nomination. Well done!
ATC for the resounding WIN. INCREDIBLE work by all!!!!!!
ATC at its best! Thanks all ATC, I know you're there to make us safe and let us go home at the end of the day! Go ATC!
imagine the logistics pain of landing in syracuse and dealing with that paperwork.. avoided!
That was the real source of "yes", keeping the refuel in the family made it hurt less
Syracuse int has a full air national guard base attached that has tuns of flights out of it so not to bad… still lots of paper work but not as bad as a totally public airport.
He landed at Syracuse, he didn’t avoid landing there
@@andynormancx i see. all good info
Fort Campbell Refueling Division practices over my house or withing close sight, and low, about once a month. It's amazing how they figured out how to do that.
The most resounding "YES" I've heard in a long time.
THIS is a perfect example of why we US Military train for every contingency, whether peace time or war time. It does not matter when, where or how. Training WILL save your life when you least expect it.
that is CRM at it's best
Absolutely. Just loved it
Super rare to be min fuel over the contiguous USA and have a tanker established in the AR. Lucky! And awesome job by the controller.
Same thing happened to me east of Nashville when I was coming in to home base. Fortunately I was able to conserve energy by pedaling a little bit so my battery didn't go dead before my bike hit the driveway.
Was this more or less a lucky coincidence that a refueling plane was in the area or was it in the context of a military exercise of some kind?
Really interesting to see military ATC covered, great Video!
Thank you sir for the inspiring words. Pls, check our Military ATC playlist. We have more videos like these
@@Flight_Follower You didn't even answer the question
@@zs2977 He probably doesn't know. In all likelihood it was just a fortunate bit of luck. You don't declare an emergency/min fuel in an exercise without clearly stating it's an exercise though.
coincidence
Niagara Falls ARS is the home of the 914th Air Refueling Wing's 328th Air Refueling Squadron. They have eight KC-135s that run multiple tracks - including the one between Niagara Falls and Albany. Fort Drum is North of SYR and despite being an Army base, they do a *ton* of flight operations. ROC sits square in the middle between NFARS and SYR and is home to the 642nd Aviation Support Battalion of the NY ANG. Basically upstate/western NY is home to just a craptonne of military aviation (that's not centered around naval air stations, air force bases, or joint bases), so the KC-135s out of NFARS are regulars in the sky here. Not sure what Venom 1 was doing as a single from Burlington to SYR.
No luck involved, just normal refueling track for these guys. Positioning happened to be a bit lucky, but at the speed these guys fly, the distances aren't *that* far.
Awesome. That was a very different ATC compared to the usual ones you hear. Very interesting
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome work by all. I was holding my breath just watching this from the comfort of my home.
That’s situational awareness on the ATC …. Good job
It’s always nice to see a video that makes you smile.
Good to know u liked it
Easier then finding a charging station for my Tesla
Well said 😆😆 he was very lucky he got it without looking for it
Faster, too. As well as taking less time to refuel.
Heyyyohhhh!
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894Electricity dosent stand a chance vs fuel.
Gas station pumps transfer at ~ 5MW, that would be over 20,000 amps @ 220V
@@dougaltolan3017but as my car is stationary the whole night I could even load it via an USB-C cable.
Interesting, same thing happened to me in 172 last week, lucky those guys were out to help me out
That's awesome. I didn't realize that a 172 could go fast enough to keep up with the tanker 🤣
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 you have to tape the tankers hose with duck tape on the 172 so they can tow you to your airfield. But yeah, meeting the tanker is a little effort...
@@MisterIvyMike
🤣🤣🤣👍
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225 it’s just complimentary service provided when you do pattern work at JFK
He was diverting to Syracuse from Burlington for low fuel, then went to Syracuse anyway after he got tanked up.
Those tankers were supposed to refuel another flight and therefore probably couldn’t give Venom much fuel probably just enough to allow him a go around or two for landing at Syracuse
@@jameson1239 makes sense
@@jameson1239 They had enough to fill him up. Especially with 2 of them. One of which turned around.
@59thfsaviation79 we don't know enough to claim that. We don't know how far the tankers were in their flight, how big the Booger and Crazy flights were or how much fuel they'd need, how much fuel were onboard either of the tankers IAW their mission brief, etc
Idk how you can say that with such confidence after seeing only 5 minutes of their interaction with minimal context
The relief in that "yes" from Venom01
I love the difference in his tone at 4:08
He was really sounds so relieved, compared at the start of the video
Good news for Bison 21, but what about Booger and Crazy? Everyone is RTB and these guys didn't get any gas!
Note how Viper 01 was refuelled within "seconds" - significant portions of the video are cut, including their refuelling.
Yes! 🙌
🫡
That ATC just earned himself a case of beer!
Without a doubt the best ATC recording I've heard yet.
ZBW is actually located in Nashua, New Hampshire.
Wondering if ATC was prior military.
Sure seemed like it.
unlikely.
Very unlikely
Don't know why there are so many unlikely comments below you, but a sizeable chunk of the FAA ATC workforce is prior military. Great job by this controller, regardless of his work history.
@@joshh2705 Because of how the controller spoke, most likely. That tells a mil aviator a lot.
Better than textbook procedures....
Amazing job by ATC....
This audio must have been from a while ago; they haven't had Vipers flying out of Burlington for a few years now. VTANG was the first Air Guard unit to be equipped with Fat Amys.
If you’re not min fuel in a Viper you haven’t had a good mission….nice job ZBW!
I hope his supe gave him a positive PRC for that, and a Time Off Award.
Kudos! Awesome job!
Great ATC
THAT was wicked cool!
Amazing ATC work. Bravo!
Many thanks!
Angels in the sky... everyone thinks the fighters are the real heroes... it's really the tankers because without them, no one is flying anywhere for long distances. you could tell venom-01 when ATC asked if he wanted a tanker for fuel the relief that came though the radio was palpable.
Maybe the map and tracks are not to scale but he appeared to fly many more track miles chasing that refuel than he would have if he just flew the ILS! 🤷🏼♂️
I think they probably aren’t, but even if they were, taking on fuel presumably gave him more options if he had to go around or if something stopped him being able to land at Syracuse
@@andynormancx 100% it did, Min Fuel means you have usually 1-2 chances to go around if anything fails. With getting some more gas if anything fails he can troubleshoot before landing instead of having to force it.
Outstanding work ATC!
Professionals at work…
I find it nice that decisions can be made at the lowest level and not have to seek approval.
Total Professionalism from the ATC and all concerned.
Great Situational awareness by the controller!
I wonder if this controller has military experience, he really seemed to know exactly what was needed at any time.
ATC done right! Bravo Zulu!
Good example of what empowering the lower ranking or individual unit can achieve
Minor delays to prevent a potential catastrophy despite any accumulative mistakes that were present to get to that point (no hate, it's just the nature of what creates an emergency and people will always make mistakes)
That's a really big F16....
Wow I didn't realise how much ATC got involved with military aircraft.
You could hear the relief in that yes
Great effort. Been there myself....can get a bit nerve wracking.
I guess that guy can be a military controller anytime he wants!
Excellent work!!
How cool! I wonder how they do the accounting for the fillup.
Great job by all of those guys!
Wow, I never saw MARSA declared while on active duty!
good job... odds are he got a time off award for his actions that he wont be able to use due to a staffing shortage!
OUTSTANDING!
A couple of times I also wished I had filling stations driving near me in highways...
🎵”The bastard won’t fly,
When the tanks they run dry,
You depend on that in-flight refueling!”
Probably good to check your fuel before you start your flight
Controller was definitely military
Great head work by ATC
Not all heroes wear capes….some have headsets 👏👏👏
That's what we call Sub-Zero 😎 Really cool 😂
It seems like ATCs make a lot of Money but this guy definitely earned his pay today. Also who makes up the names for the call sign?
What an amazing job by the flight following controller.
Boston guys are pretty relaxed lol
So…….
Legend has it, Booger and Crazy flight are still waiting for AR from BISON