HUD Footage - F/A-18 Hornets score first combat victories - Desert Storm 1991
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Listened to an excellent podcast recently where one of the pilots involved gave listeners a step by step accounting of this engagement:
www.fighterpil...
Decided to consolidate all the known footage with clear audio as provided in the podcast. Audio timeline is compressed as I had to work with existing HUD footage.
Summary Excerpt from "Bogey's & Bandits" - by Robert Gandt
"Quicksand 400, two bandits on your nose at fifteen."
A spike of adrenaline surged through Mongo. The controller had said bandits. Not bogeys. Bandits.
Or had he? Mongo felt a stab of uncertainty. In the radio garble, could he have heard wrong?
Mongo forced himself to switch his attention inside the cockpit-something he hated doing at this critical moment-just for a second. He switched his mission computer to air-to-air mode.
Two sweeps later, there on his radar display, he could see one of the bandits. The radar was electronically identifying the target as a MiG-21 Fishbed fighter. The MiG was at supersonic speed, two thousand feet below.
It was coming directly at him.
Twelve miles range. The bandit was well inside the range of the Hornet's Sparrow anti-aircraft missiles. No one in the flight was shooting. Why the hell not? Had he heard wrong? Hadn't the controller in the Hawkeye said Bandits? Or did he say something else?
Mongo selected a radar-guided Sparrow missile on his arming display. His finger went to the trigger on his control stick.
For a millisecond, he wrestled with his conflicting thoughts: Maybe I heard what I wanted to hear. Maybe it wasn't a MiG. . .
If it was a MiG, the Iraqi pilot would be taking his shot. Just like the MiG did last night on Speicher.
Mongo squeezed the trigger.
Whoom! The five-hundred pound Sparrow missile left its rail like a runaway freight train. Mongo watched the missile accelerate. It was flying in an arc toward-there it was-a speck, growing larger. . . the MiG!
They were closing fast. Mongo got one good glimpse of the fast-moving Soviet-built fighter-just in time to see it erupt in a bright flash. The Sparrow hit its target.
Mongo rolled up on his right wing. He could see it clearly-the tan, desert-colored paint scheme, the insignia of the Iraqi Air Force. The MiG was a mess, crumpled in the middle, burning fiercely, trailing thick smoke, descending like a shotgunned pigeon.
Splash One! Mongo called on the radio.
Splash Two! called someone else.
Two? Mongo had forgotten for a moment: The Hawkeye called out two bandits. Someone had just taken out the second one. Over on the opposite side of the formation, the second MiG was trailing fire and smoke, going down just like the first MiG. Lieutenant Commander Mark Fox, who was Dash Four out on the right flank of the formation, had reached the same conclusion as Mongo: Shoot. Shoot the bastard before he shoots us.
DCS really had some serious graphic updates since 1991.
😂😂😂😂😂 хорош
"Fox 1; MiG-21 Low." Followed by his energetic "Splash 1" was just so cool to experience.
Cuz he's going into the history books as the first air to air kill of the war. lol
Got ban from a dcs server for speaking exactly like him
I love how Mongo was getting in trouble for being in the wrong formation, then ends up downing the Mig-21.
Character development
love the growl from the ir lock
it’s so satisfying
Sidewinder
@@pontiacGXPfan wow really?
@@blameusa7082 yes. No other missile i know of makes that sound
@@pontiacGXPfan He was being sarcastic my guy
"Splash one!" That was incredible!
That Fishbed got it with both barrels; he ate both the Sidewinder from the first Hornet, then the Sparrow from the other one.
I believe there were two separate MiGs that were shot down in that engagement
it's two MiGs, Quicksand 64 fired both a heater and a Sparrow, look closely as the MiG descends, the trailing fireball expands as the Sparrow hits it but I missed that the first time around.
Fox shot a 9M at max range and didn’t think it’d hit so he thumbed to Sparrow and sent one, the 9 hit as the 7m left the cheek station. When that 500 pound spear of a sparrow smacks ya at Mach 3 then a 60 pound warhead fuses it certainly does the job! When they hit….
It looks like both of them were actually AIM-7 impacts - in the first video he fired it off at less than 2 miles away!
Fox-1 tells you its a sparrow being launched, Fox-2 a sidewinder.
Fox 3 - 120 AMRAAM ARHM Active Radar Homing Missile
Fox 4 - Guns
Mig-21 vs F-18. Those migs never had a chance.
First guy didn't launch until they were within 2 miles.... May have stood a chance for that reason alone.
@@Dubanx ROE was visual confirmation only since there was so much coalition aircraft during the first day, so unless it they had tpods it’d be hard to confirm. Bet even the Iraqi’s would be confused which ones were theirs.
MIG 21 REALLY
@@Dubanx even if they didn't have to vid and got that close, the missiles that the 21s carry suck seeing as they are older than the hornet itself
@@Dubanx These hornets are doing air-to-ground mission, the escort F-15 didn't engage. In a longer version of the recording you can also see that the HUD was in A/G mode prior to the engagement. The two hornets switch to A2A mode, shot down the fishbeds, and carryon their A/G mission without dropping their bomb for dogfighting.
I love that the first HUD was uncencored because thats literally a 1.5 ish shot with an Aim-7. Im still not sure whats with a lot of cutting tho.
Btw i just realize they used the same Intercom voice on both. And aim 7 effective range is not cencored. I guess because its not on use they didnt bother cencoring it.
@@rifqitaqiuddin it nay have heen bugs/corruption in the cockpit footage
@@rifqitaqiuddin Because we don't use those missiles anymore... Upgraded a long time ago.
Mig-21. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
That said, they let the Mig get REALLY close in the first video. I know the Migs are limited to short range IR missiles, but still. They were within 2 miles by the time the Sparrow was launched in that first video. Seems dangerous.
They were at a head on aspect which means the r60s carried by the fishbed wouldn't get good tone and would be easily spoofed by flares. That said I agree with you. Real close, almost merged. Probably just hesitation since air to air kills, even in open conflict, are quite dodgy since until IFF or VID you don't always know what faction the plane is flying for or if it's actually a bandit.
There was a lot going on that day. A lot of coalition aircraft in the air, AWACs had to clear the Hornets before they could shoot. I honestly don't even think the MiGs had any idea there were Hornets in front/above them, being that Iraqi pilots had minimal situational awareness.
Bullseye was still foreign to some and the BVR capabilities of the fleet were reigned in to some extent by brass with ROE and VID.
@BigT tbf the IFF turned on at 4.5 nm which would have been a way safer shot to make with the sparrow, even tho thats still way to close, the guy who fierd defo hesitated.
@@kamraam1464 that, and fishbeds have poor visibility
Be honest I have no idea what I’m looking at except for the Horizon
You need to buy DCS and become a Pro!
You can look guides for HUD's (made for games for like DCS, a flight combat simulator) and learn what does every number, dot and symbol mean
If you learn your HUD you can fly and maneuver in pitch darkness and always know where you're pointing
@@francisconov5664 Do you have any specific guides in mind? I want to get DCS and I will need all the tutorials I can get.
@@gameshock3897 What exactly r u searching for? I mean only a guide for an airplane/helicopter or something more special?
@@SparksBG Airplane for sure. I'm getting the F18 and the A-10 soon.
mig pilots never knew they were being hunted...a good hunting it was
we sure about that? Doesn't the 21 have RWR? And was the Iraqi radar network fully destroyed at that time?
@@MB-cv5pz Mig-21 at that time had poor RWR and radar, totally obsolete and hopeless even up against newer F-4E/F with AIM-7F/M. IAF Mig-21 Bison can be seen just as hopeless when it was shot down by JF-17 with PL-12. It's just a 1958 mach 2 jet made for speed rather than maneuverability meant for ambush with IR guided R-60/73 or r550/552 Magic missiles
@@jayjay53313 I'm not saying the MiG-21 had good radar or RWR. However it is still good enough to be able to detect a hostile radar track on you. Especially when they are at less than 7 miles, and firing radar guided missiles. Let's also remember that generally speaking, in a situation where aircraft 1 is engaging aircraft 2 from a distance, there will be a sweet spot in the aircraft's 1 radar range where aircraft 2 will have it's RWR activated but not bounce back enough radar to aircraft 1, which could allow it to detect the opponent's presence without being detected itself. But this wouldn't work at 7 miles range.
While certain platforms are outdated after a while like the MiG-21, retrofitting and overhauls of avionics and systems can still do a decent job of keeping an aircraft somewhat relevant and capable of putting up a fight. My issue with the initial comment is that I believe it is very probable that the iraqi pilot was indeed aware of the F-18s, and the reason he was shot down was because of bad training, or lack of knowledge about the enemy he was fighting, which pushed him in a position he could not escape from.
@@MB-cv5pz I get you but the MAWS fitted on Mig-21bis or later variants are likely lousy version. Besides, countries that still keep and upgrade Mig-21 are poor and there's nothing much can be done as the mig-21 doesn't have MFD for advanced RWR. Apart from poor instrument display, the limited view from Mig-21 cockpit without bubble canopy design and poor maneuverability are factors of Mig-21 being shot down.
The USN F/A-18C shot down by Iraqi Mig-25 was due to being inside US safe comfort zone and the pilot let his guard down didn't expect Iraqi Mig-25 would slip passed. After desert storm and Bosnia war, US fighters were fitted additional MAWS detectors in between radome and bubble canopy increasing detection on incoming missiles.
Forget hopeless mig-21 like China did with remaining J-7, used mainly for training, as decoy or target practice while being replaced by ageing Su-27, Su-30MKI & older J-11A downgraded to reserves PLAAF inventory.
@@jayjay53313 yup agreed. There is only so much a successful platform like the MiG-21 can accomplish today, even considering all the modernisation efforts from various militaries. They seem pretty much outmatched by almost all contemporary fighters
"Who Said SUNLINERS?!"
Btrikefighter Squadron EIghty One based aboard U.S.S. Saratoga Red Sea Battle Group Ao2 Robbins Says SUNELINERS, Any TIME, Any PLACE. IYAOYAS!
Dave "French" Renaud?
when i do this same mission on DCS the aim-7 just misses, works better in real life i guess
There was almost a slight bit of luck involved, he shot the missile barely above minimum range, just look how far off boresight it went.
DCS has worse missile physics than war thunder lol, it's a cockpit sim not a combat sim, don't worry about videogames
getting payback for Sunliner 403
Speicher
@@harrisonpowers3121 you know it
Do you know the story of what really happened to him? The reports seem to indicate he actually was able to eject when he got hit. The big question is what happened after that ?
@@billfish6244 blindsided by a Mig-25 Foxbat. His ejection seat was found in the wreckage so, no he didn't eject
Interesting. I haven’t heard that before. Everything I’ve read about it said the canopy was found miles away from the aircraft wreckage indicating an ejection( or at least an attempt was made to eject). The report I read also indicated the ejection seat was not in the aircraft wreckage when the site was examined in ‘95.
Rip to all those involved. Sucked into a war they didn’t want to be in.
my guy foxed on the bandit from 1.8 NM away! he wanted to see the whites of that pilots eyes, could and should have foxed as soon as he got lock but hey this worked too!
since his leader had called them "bogies" and called for VID, he had to comply
@@andrealves2630 ik, this was intended as a joke comment
Shame ‘fox’ initially used the wrong weapon…..
Why’d he get so close? An AIM7 can go up to like 20 miles right?
@@intrepid_wandering it would be odd that they wouldn't have noticed the bandits. Only required DDI page for the iron bombs they were using was the stores page. The other two would most likely have been the HSI/or SA pages. Its possible that the other two were in like FCS or engine info but that's highly unlikely. And on top of that below the right DDI is the "main" RWR. So it sounds like their ROE's required a VID as well as AWACS confirmation.
czcams.com/video/zxRgfBXn6Mg/video.html
This is a fantastic video about that day. He explains that ROEs were very tight as there were so many friendly aircraft.
@@intrepid_wandering also, which FPP episode? I've been looking for that one.
@@mobius7089
The Fighter Pilot Podcast - 017 - Desert Storm MiG Kill
It's on youtube.
ROE's required a 10 mile visual confirmation before firing, mostly to avoid locking and shooting their own F-117's, not all aircraft had the datalink toys like they do now.
Per the pilot, they lost SA and weren't really trained up on using Bullseye calls (Bandit Manny...). The E2 controller came up and called their physical side number "400 bandits on your nose 15" and they finally woke up and started sweeping ahead of them. Mongo locked up this bandit at 8 or 9 miles, and fired at roughly 2.
Its crazy how advance the u.s military was even in 1991, like now i see why a buget as large as the u.s can get you
Did the leader ever make a Fox 2 call?
From what I've seen, Mark Fox didn't call Fox for either his Sidewinder or Sparrow shots.
They can build those multi million dollar jets but they can’t install a decent gun cam. I don’t get it
They don't need it. The HUD has already enough information.
Think genius..this was like 1991 straight out of the 80's this was before we came out with updated software for our jets
@@jamesmcgee1566 What's updated software got to do with it. You don't think we had cameras that could capture clear vision in the early 90's. I revert back to my original point. The military could spend tens of millions on a single jet but the camera looks worse than my first home handy cam. They could record images on tapes. What's software got to do with it? No one said anything abut SD cards and HD drives.
The older, cheaper systems are more reliable, as far as I know
@@fim-43redeye31..makes sense right??
Funny how we can take pictures of space but can’t get jet fidelity not to look like shit.
its a tiny little camera, its not great. Even today HUD times arent that great
it's easier when the camera taking pictures of space is multiple times larger than the entire plane itself
Are the blurred parts classified?
Depends - some HUD symbology related to systems or position may be sensitive. Doesn't seem to be the case for the first video but the second had some sections covered.
It's just range numbers. By looking at target range and referencing them against the NIRD carots, you can (kind of) determine R ranges. It's likely that it was edited by a pilot who wanted to be conservative on what he showed.
Look like something with camera lens. There is no classified info on hud. It has to be as clear as possible so the most classified things on hud may be only vectors from datalink
@@adrianstachowski9422 with a radar lock the system display the missiles launch acceptable region (range) in the HUD, that its sensitive.
@@cristiangonzalez761 The ranges are shown in the middle of the hud. We can see him launch the missile at the end of no escape range. Mig had no chance to avoid this
Out F'n Standing !!!!
Funny because the f18 hornet have 15-1 in air to air combat the kill made by a Mig 25 ......
So the actual recording is in Black and White?
likely
what are those squares hiding on the second video?
Super secret anti-Russian HUD symbology tovarisch.
Hiding range calculations for the aim-9x
@@CHRISXTR3M3GAMING *AIM-9M
@@0612Devil Tombovskiy volk tebe tovarisch )
@@CHRISXTR3M3GAMING 9M, but yeah. I was really surprised that the ranging information was there on the first video, though.
Hello from Japan. With respect: Those who feel some sort of bravado and a tragic, juvenile "cool-to-kill" mentality... We are talking about human beings, each one, regardless of nationality or military membership. We can all afford to be kind. Thank you.
Big talk coming from Japan....maybe two nukes wasn't enough????
It's good to remember that. These machines are incredible, but I do think it's best to try and have more peace in the world.
@Mike U
Well said. You're a smart and civilized person, unlike all these gung-ho's who can't see past the "cool-to-kill" factor.
Fome. es como ganarle a un lada con un audi.
They were chinese copies of Mig 21
Funy voice of pilot🤣🤣🤣
If the missile was good enough it could turn on a dime.
i3 240 vs i9 9600k :))=))) real.....mig21 vs f14
It’s an F/A-18 not an F-14
Iraqi ametuer against an American professional!
USAF Gen. Chuck Horner does not have the same view as you. You have to take note that the Iraqi pilots were *very* experienced and racked up a lot of kills in the Iran-Iraq War. In fact, the Iraqi Air Force leadership took their best pilots (who were flying Mirage F1s in the aforementioned war) and stuck them into MiG-29s, which added to the Fulcrum's lethal reputation to the point that even F-15 Eagle pilots were heavily advised not to get into turning fights with Fulcrums (if they could avoid it).
So no, the Iraqi pilots were *not* amateurs. Far from it as demonstrated in the Iran-Iraq War. Their only real weakness was the fact that they far too centrally controlled to the point that when the UN Coalition took out their command and control centers, the Iraqi Air Force was left deaf, dumb, and blind.
If the death sentence is forbidden in America then Saddam and Osama would be put to life imprisonment instead due to the rising life imprisonment issue in America.
seriously.... a hornet against MIG 21? and you call that a victory... why Didn't engaged with the fulcrum... Maybe that we can call the video a hornet first crushing.
quote: F/A-18 Hornets score first combat victories - Desert Storm 1991
sorry, you are misinformed, the first air-to-air kills of the war was occured when two USAF F-15Cs shot down two Iraqi MiG-29s.
Later on the same night, an F-15C scored a double-kill against two Mirages with AIM-7 Sparrow missile. His wingman scored another kill on a third Mirage F1, for a total of three kills in the dogfight.
The third engagement that night was two F/A-18´s against two MiG-25PD´s, which engaged the "Hornets" with a R-40 Missile. The R-40 hit one of the "Hornets" and killed the Pilot, LtCmdr. Scott Speicher.
The fourth engagement was that one, you described here and showed the video. Two F/A-18s from VFA-81 shot down two Iraqi MiG-21s, one with an AIM-7 Sparrow missile and one with an AIM-9 Sidewinder missile, in a brief dogfight with their bombs still latched on. So there were two MiG-21´s killed, one by Aim-7 and one by Aim-9.
better research might be a thing.
Umm, it's first victories for the airframe, not the war bud. If you're really that sore about it put on your big girl panties and come at me.
How did I read that title and get "the first kill for the F/A 18?" Some say reading is fundamental. I'll go a step further and say reading comprehension is fundamental.
@S MS What an idiotic response that was, super disrespectful. He literally just pointed out a mistake he thought you made, which was just a misunderstanding at the end (your video title is indeed correct)... You write in response to his comment: " If you're really that sore about it put on your big girl panties and come at me." ?? what kind of butthurt child responds like that?
the american attitude
@@KevinS47 the commenter at the end did pretty much insult him instead of giving actually constructive feedback. Sure both parties can learn from this, but the reaction wasn't unwarranted in my opinion
seriosli f14 vs mig 21 :)))? comon ak47 vs crossbow go :))=))
are you having a stroke
I think ur high, it's a f18