Vintage Fender bass bridge saddles issues
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- How to cure 'sitar' noises and contact noises with mid 60's Fender Bass bridges without losing the basic character of the vintage instrument.
www.jaspermortier.com
www.jimmyreiter.com
www.electrobluessociety.com
truefire.com/bass-guitar-less...
0:00 Intro
5:10 Contact noises acousticly with late 60's saddles
6:01 DI: late 60's saddles (with original 1965 base plate)
7:38 DI: Allparts saddles (with original 1965 base plate)
8:01 1st Conclusion
8:56 Contact noises acousticly with Allparts saddles)
9:51 Acoustic noises gone with inward pressure on the saddles
11:49 Conclusion
replacement bridges, gotoh 201, 203, Allparts - Hudba
These videos about early p bass wiring are very informative and helpfull. Thank you.
That's really good to hear! Thanks.
Thank you for this! This is the first video I've found that answers a suspicion I've had about those threaded saddles being more open sounding.
So, do you think it makes the bass more open sounding and is that something you want?
Use longer or stronger Springs that will push the saddles outward toward the pickups. I sometimes use 2 springs to apply more tension on the saddles.
I love watching your channel. You and I have some very same thoughts in common. Beautiful bass too! The other thing is, if you have the springs rattling on the screws, you can use a piece of heat shrink on the screw all the way to the back where you’d still have plenty of room for adjusting the intonation. Love how insightful you are. Be well.
It's not the springs I think (I did stretch those too in the past to get more pressure. Had my daughter pressing them while playing trying to sort it out. Darn, totally forgot about that). It's cured now with the 'inward pressure' caused by moving the G- and E-string outward one or two slots. That is for the ticking/hollow/touching noises. The sitar noises were gone with the late 60-ies saddles (and also with the more modern non-threaded Allparts and Gotoh saddles). Thanks for your kind words. Really touches me.
Very interesting! I just finished setting up an early 90s G&L LB100... The bridge has a set screw on the side that is designed to compress all the saddles together. This would eliminate any vibration or clicking, and also is supposed to make the whole bridge assembly solid and work as one unit. Leo Fender was always coming up with ideas and fixes to solve issues like the clicking you're describing here.
Ha ha. See? Leo was struggling with the same thing. It took him a while to resolve this though. He should never have sold the company to CBS in the first place! It’s a bit easier to get solutions like this if you’re going the heavy mass path like with the babicz bridge, but that really effects the sound (for a lot of people in a good way). It would be cool to have a subtle solution for the lighter bridges though.
Cool video!! I like threaded saddles because it’s easy to get string alignment right with the pickups.
That makes sense. With my 65 P it would result in a totally wicked string spacing situation though! And I don't think it matters too much with the double pole pieces. On my Tele (51 P) with the single pole pieces it's another matter I think.
I can see from the picture the saddes are uneven spaced which force a different offset of each string on its relative saddle. As consequence the pressure of the screws from the pair of each saddle to the plate is uneven. That can determine each saddle to not be pretty stable under string pressure and is side moving of course.
I must say if I leave it alone for a while (say a couple of days) it settles again. The string start to sit in better or whatever so I'm back to the old bridge and the old saddles!
Thanks for helping me confirm I am on the right track to fixing the rattles in my MIM Jazz bridge with AllParts threaded saddles. As of right now a piece of a business card under the E string saddle screws, folded up between the E and A saddles, in addition to heat-shrink tubing between my intonation screws and springs, seems to have me business. Tempted to go with a Hipshot Kickass but afraid of unwanted additional upper harmonics, I just don't know what to expect from the conversion.
Nevermind, next time I picked it up the rattle is back. That's the most frustrating thing about this process, you think you finally got it fixed, but then it comes right back. I've been trying different saddle angles, different string position on the saddles, about to put some loctite or RTV on the height adjustment screws. I had Wilkinson saddles before the AllParts but they had other issues.
Wow, that sounds kind of messy! I don't think plastic UNDER your saddles will do any good for your sound in general. In between the saddles is less of a problem. Since you don't seem to have this vintage bridge maybe you want to consider the Gotoh 203. Not expensive and it won't change your tone in a dramatic way comparing to your current set up and is already superior technically speaking. The Gothoh 201 is also a good bridge with even more support for the saddles, but also a bit heavier (and I like the look of the 201 better). I'm sure the Hipshot is a really good bridge, but I'm also pretty sure that's really gonna alter your tone. But for you maybe in a good way: expect more sustain, more lows, more highs a bit less mids. Some people would say 'better'. I say a bit less 'old school character' with less middy overtones so that's totally a matter of taste.
Oh, I already talk about those Gotoh bridges in the video. I forget what I put in those videos. One last thing you might try is put a tiewrap around all of the saddles. Positioned under the saddles keeping the screws together creating inward pressure. Can be a bit of a pain if you replace your strings (the saddles can pop up due to this inward tension), but it helped me with my jazzbass. And you barely notice it.
I changed the saddles (cheap steel) on my 2010 USA Fender Jazz bass fitted with a vintage bridge, for larger diameter solid brass grooved barrel saddles (Trever Wilkinson).... imo the bass now has a slightly deeper but clearer tone with a tiny increase in overall gain, along with the fitted brass nut to i get a sweeter, clearer, deep old school tone better than the original vintage saddles... in my opinion...some may disagree..
Ah! Good tip. I've got 4 of the Gotoh saddles on there now. And I tie them together with tiewrap otherwise there's space between them. I'm trying to get used to the slight loss of character, but the tone is for sure more stable. I might want to try those brass saddles too. You got a link of the product by any chance?
I've experienced this sitar sound with this type of Fender vintage bass bridge. It happens when the alignment of the string over the saddle causes the string to make contact--enough to resonate--with the adjacent spring on/over the intonation screw.
That can happen too, but I checked that thoroughly in this case by letting someone assisting me to cover all the springs while the sound popped up. It's anoying! That's for sure.
Nice, that is the secret to eliminate the buzz! The threaded saddle Fender bridge has that oldschool sound indeed. Steel plate and steel saddles. 70's bridges are horrible, the saddles move all over all the time!
Had a Badass on my Precision and it really gave it a sub-heavy and compressed sound(Good for slap and M.Miller I guess). Installed a Gotoh 203 and the sound opened up. It woul even more with a vintage bridge I suppose.
I just finished a 1966 inspired Jazz Bass and I used the Gotoh 203, mostly because of the extra 2 screws that secure the base plate on the body. It is also made from brass ,both plate & saddles. I think a happy medium between high-mass and oldschool. The vintage ones usually don't have the best contact with the body, but that may give it that special character...fun stuff. Thanks for your very informative videos.
Totally comparable to my experiences! Yes. Thanks.
And it's very similar to snare drum rims. The heavy die cast stuff totally kills the open character of a Ludwig Supraphonic for instance. But also the quality of the steel is super important. I tried generic cheapo rims which although having the same thickness (1.6mm) totally sucked sound wise.
I have a 70s Jazz bass, had similar issue. Finally replaced it with Fender branded high mass bridge and solved my problem. Still says Fender so looks original enough for me.
That totally works for the ash Fenders for sure (Marcus Miller is not totally crazy!), but the high mass thing doesn't suit the pre-CBS lighter alder bodies I think.
The clicking noise might be coming from the saddles hitting each other as you play. Try a small spacer of mylar where one saddle contacts the next one and see if it disappears. Another possibility is the saddle holes where the Allen screws go have "opened up" a little with the constant hammering pressure of playing. So the saddles are rocking towards each other. You could try some new Allen screws in case they are worn. It is possible that the sitar noise might be solved at the same time. The sound will be exactly as before with no change in tone. Good luck and let me know what you find.
Ah, yes I did try aluminium foil once inbetween the saddles once and indeed it improved. But the ticking/hollow sound appears also with brand new saddles so it can't be play in the screws I think? So I think key is ‘more intense contact’ between the saddles either created by inward pressure by the strings or indeed putting something in between the saddles. The sitar noises seem to be something different and are only severe with the 1965 saddles. I also turned them upside down once. It changed it a bit, but didn’t cure it.
The bottom of the original screws that adjust the saddle height, use a fine file and flatten the bottom of each screw, so the screw makes more even contact with the bridge. This might eliminate the clicking. Try using your old saddles and put new screws in the saddles to adjust the height. If you really want to use the old saddles. It's worth a shot!
That's really good advice, thanks! I did clean them with vinegar and a brush. Still not super shiny or something but already way better (they were really rusty). And I turned some of the saddles upside down. After all those years some of the threads were pretty worn. I also found out you should just let the strings sit for at least 2 days. Now this bass is fine.
Yeah that ‘sitar effect’ on a fretted instrument is intermittent contact by the nut or {as you’re saying} at the bridge
I love keeping vintage instruments vintage..
But there comes a time when ‘old’ is just “old and worn out” and needs to be replaced with a replica...
I say this, as long as the body and neck are original and functioning, it’s a vintage guitar..
Totally agree! Thank God we have good replacements nowadays. I'm happy I found a good late 60-ies bridge.
Why don't you put a rubber collar around the screw feets to keep it tight all together ?
Yes, I did use tie-wraps at a certain point which worked too. But now I'm happy with putting the strings outwards one or two slots on the G- and E-string.
from fender bass?
Sorry, what's your question exactly?
-Are you using flat wound strings?
On the P-bass yes. I'm happy now with my late 60-ies bridge. The strings have to 'sit' for a day or two to sound ok.
06:01
07:39
The Allparts saddles seem to have more sustain, and sustain is not what I'm looking for with bass.
@@allrequiredfields Inmediately feels more like a rock bass or something. Of course cool if that's what you're after. Weird. Just those tiny parts already having a big influence. I also had an old Tokai bass bridge of a Jazz bass replica. I tried those saddles too: totally horrible!
What.s the point ? You get conclusion on wrong machined mechanisms ? You cannot do a diference between 60's or modern bridges in these conditions. A 60's bridge will never clacking or clicking if well machined. I ordered couple of genuine modern Fender bridges over time. Some of them was bended from factory production. I never used them and never try to hear what "character" it have. Was just Fender garbage bridges as yours is. The quality control of Fenders is peculiar which do just couple of instruments to sound good from hundreds.
I'm afraid the whole project 'Fender' is not per se meant to be the best possible, but sacrifices are made to make it easier to produce and assemble to get an affordable instrument. But however, if you 'improve' some things (nicer woods, better neck construction, better hardware, etc) you may achieve a better bass in some respects (think Warwick for instance), but you do lose something. That something makes me personally want to play Fender and totally dislike Warwicks! But that doesn't mean we cannot try to improve some details here and there.
@JasperMortier Hey Jasp.Thanks for you reply. I have the same concerns as you have. And trying to get the best coupling between the bridge and body sometimes I wonder if the best tone from this instrument did not come from some inherent' imperfections' in building. Still searching why from hundreds of series instruments just a few get the real tone ? Thanks.
Oh man. I tried dozens of Precisions before I found this one. Ridiculous prices (a.o. a beautifull looking 57-er for like 15.000 bucks or whatever, but darn, such a dull sound). But once you get a proper one: nothing compares! Not even like say the Pino bass or something. It's still weird.@@user-ik2pv4du8m
@JasperMortier Your sound great ! I still using your videos as references for my "researches" .Great presentations btw. Thank You.
@@user-ik2pv4du8m Thanks so much. That really means a lot to me.