32 is the perfect number of teams in the league. I like seeing all the western conference teams come to NY at least once bc I like seeing other NHL talent play live. Play-in games are a no-go. The playoff format needs to go back to 1-8 in each conference. 2 division winners 1-2 based on their points, and 3-8 in the conference sorted by points.
The 20:55 mark features a THG claim of supposed "expanded playoffs." The NBA, starting with the 2020-21 season, in each conference, allowed, on winning %, the top-10 teams in each conference to at a minimum qualify for the play-in tourney (PIT), with: - the top-6 getting to automatically qualify for playoff action - among the remaining 4 in the top-10 getting to compete in the PIT, with: -- from the: --- 2022 one, the 9th-seeded Atlanta Hawks and New Orleans Pelicans having qualified for playoff action that way --- remaining 3 that took place before last month, the 7th- and 8th-place teams from each conference having qualified -- the need for the 7th- and 8th-place teams to win just 1 game but the 9th- and 10th-place ones to each win 2, with, during the PIT of: --- 2021, in the: ---- Western Conference (WC), the: ----- 7th-place Lakers having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff action ---- 8th-place Warriors having gone 0-2 and thus missed ---- 9th-place Grizzlies having gone 2-0 and thus qualified --- Eastern Conference (EC), the: ---- 7th-place Celtics having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff action ---- 8th-place Wizards having gone1-1 and thus qualified for the postseason ---- 9th-place Pacers having gone 1-1 and, having placed so low, thus didn't qualify for a playoff spot ---- 10th-place Hornets having gone 0-1 and thus didn't qualify for postseason play --- 2022, the respective: ---- 7th-place WC and EC teams, the T-Wolves and Nets, having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff spots ---- 8th-place WC and EC teams, Clippers and Cavs, having each gone 0-2 and thus didn't qualify for postseason play ---- 9th-place WC and EC teams, Pelicans and Hawks, having each gone 2-0 and thus qualified for postseason play ---- 10th-place WC and EC teams, the Spurs and Hornets, having each gone 0-1 and thus missed that postseason --- 2023, the Lakers, T-Wolves, Hawks and Heat (all top-8 finishers during regular-season play) having each qualified but the Pelicans, OKC Thunder, Raptors and Bulls having not qualified for playoff action --- 2024, the Pelicans, Lakers, 76ers and Heat having (also top-8 finishers on regular-season winning %) qualified for playoff action but the Kings, Warriors, Bulls and Hawks having missed The NBA also has an in-season tourney, something I see the NHL as likely to put in place as a so-called PIT.
@@v4v819 Here in America, ESPN really does need to do a better job of covering guys like McDavid, MacKinnon, etc. the NHL in general is terrible in marketing some of its best players
@@ElmerFudd16 Mathews isn't an option excuse to burn millions of dollars in dead markets. McDavid is from Ontario and Ontario teams make a profit for the league. Mathews came from Arizona but profitable teams spend money on keeping that fanbase afloat and developing the systems that would expose him. I for one don't wanna buy a jersey from my favorite team only to have the proceeds go to paying the opposite teams salaries
No one should ever forget that once upon a time your favorite hockey team was the new kid on the block, and I'm sure old fans were'nt happy when new teams showed up. Because some hocky fans in general seem to really obssess over the negative and be resistant to new things. And if your confident your team can beat a new one you should'nt have anything to worry about. In my opinion expansion allows new players a chance to take part in the NHL and new fans get a chance to experience it too. So I'm always going to be open to expansion I find it fun to see which new team we get. Expansion also gives players who don't get alot of attention a chance to try to prove themselves and more than once that chance has been taken advantage of. Also I don't think there's anything boring at all about teams choosing to be defensive and try to clamp down on the other team. It can make goals feel more satisfying and it's far better than teams allowing 5 goals in one period.
Před měsícem+13
Even though there is an equal number of pros and cons, it feels like this video makes a slightly better case against expansion. I agree with other who say that the NHL needs to work on expanding its visibility and marketing its players effectively, before actually expanding the number of teams. As you say Shannon, 32 is kind of a perfect number of teams.
To echo his comment on new fans in Arizona, I live around Phoenix in a sizeable neighborhood with lots of kids under 16. The only sports I see kids playing outside (when it's not a million degrees out) are street hockey and baseball. Never once have I seen a basketball hoop or football being used. Having the coyotes here for 20 years DID make a difference in driving interest in hockey, regardless of what pundits or random internet people that don't live here say. lgrw
Dilution of talent was valid in the 70s and 80s, not now with the way the sport has grown; four more teams in the next 5-10 years (after CBS set, sigh), and yes for Quebec! Overall, more hockey, more excitement, developing rivalries...
Disagree. At the moment, one can see the dilution of talent in the defensive end. The league can lose four teams and it'd be the equivalent of losing less than every team's 4th line. The league needs to slow down on expansion at the moment to allow the talent to catch up.
No for Quebec... The economy isn't there outside of Montreal for any major sport let alone hockey... If you want to gain some insight in the economic trouble in Quebec outside of Montreal then google percentage of households over 100K annual income and then you will see the disparity in that province- even in their capital city- outside of Montreal which still has it's problems but does have all the wealth that Quebec has to show for itself...
Quite simply just have a play in between 8th and 9th in each conference. That would still be exactly half the teams making the playoffs. Could make it a best of 3 or even a 2 game aggregate score series.
The NBA over the past 4 seasons has put in a so-called play-in tourney that has featured those teams that in each conference, on regular-season winning %, placed 7th thru 10th qualify, with the winner of the game between the: - 7th- and 8th-place teams getting to qualify, with, during the 2023 play-in tourney, the Lakers and Atlanta Hawks having gotten to qualify that way via respective wins over the T-Wolves and Miami Heat - loser of the 7th-8th game and winner of the game between the 9th- and 10th-place team also getting to qualify, with, during the 2023 play-in tourney, the T-Wolves and Heat having gotten to qualify via respective wins over the: -- OKC Thunder team that, in the Western Conference 9th-10th-place game, had beaten the New Orleans Pelicans -- Chicago Bulls team that, in the Eastern Conference 9th-10th-place game, had beaten the Toronto Raptors
An ideal 36-team NHL alignment I think would look like this: ( Expansion teams Atlanta, Kansas City, Houston, Quebec City), 3 divisions per conference, an 84-game schedule where each team plays every team in the league twice, 4 times against teams in your division, and will play 4 additional games against teams from their conference ( 2 per division, rotated each season). Playoffs in this proposal would be that the top 9 teams in each conference make the playoffs with division winners guaranteed a top 3 seed and a best of 3 play between the 8 and 9 seeds. ( Basically the same format the league used from 1999-2013) Eastern Conference Northeast: ( Montreal, Quebec, Toronto, Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo) Metropolitan: ( Boston, NYR, New Jersey, NYI, Philly, Pitt, ) Southeast: ( Washington, Carolina, Columbus, Atlanta, Tampa, Florida) Western Conference: Central: ( Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Dallas, Houston) Northwest: ( Minnesota, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary, Colorado, Utah) Pacific: ( Vancouver, Seattle, LA, San Jose, Anaheim, Vegas)
@@Mathieuacc Buffalo will never agree to being in a division that does not include Toronto. In this setup, I know this means separating Boston from Montreal and Toronto but Boston is more of a " metropolitan" area than Buffalo is ( Boston is much closer to NY than Buffalo is )
I think the biggest fan base expansion opportunity is right below the NHL's nose with the only Latin American IIHF country Mexico that has a traditional hockey game, pelota purepecha, Monterrey is a ski resort city with under an 8 hour drive to Houston, less than 10 to Dallas
The regular season only means so much but it still means something. 3 seasons ago the Canucks came so close to seeing playoff action despite having started with an 8-15-1-1 win-regulation loss-OT loss-shootout loss record. Those Nucks would finish the 2021-22 regular season with a 40-30-8-4 record, good enough for 92 points but still 5 short of a playoff spot. Although the following season those Nucks would finish with 83 points, 12 short of a playoff spot, the Sens, despite a similar start at 10-14-1-0, finished only 6 points back of a playoff spot. TBD will be whether for this coming season, there will be a fringe Canadian playoff team, with last season, among: - Eastern Canadian teams, the: -- Leafs having finished: --- 3rd in the Atlantic with 102 points ---- 4 points ahead of the 4th-place Bolts ---- 11 ahead of the 5th-place Wings -- Sens and Habs having respectively finished 13 and 15 points out of playoff spots - Western Canadian teams, the: -- Canucks and Oilers having finished with 109 and 104 respective points and thus, relative to the 4th-place Pacific Division Golden Knights, finished 11 and 6 points ahead -- Jets having finished with 110 points and thus, relative to the 4th-place Central-Division Preds, 11 points ahead -- Flames having finished 17 points out of a playoff spot but surprisingly just 1 point further back of 3rd in the Pacific (occupied by the Kings)
Could also nhl expansion mean. More teams in junior ? More nhl teams. Means more demand to supply nhl teams with good players? More development programs. Etc.
Dilution happens when too many teams join at once in a short span of time. In the 1910s, the NHA/NHL and PCHL fought over a small pool of players, and it continued into the 1920s between the WCHL and NHL; the smaller/minor leagues of that era didn’t do enough player development to support expansion. In the 60s, though, there were enough young players developing in the AHL and veterans in the WHL to support expansion, but too many joined at once. 2 at a time every 3-4 seasons (60, 63-64, 67-68) would have been adequate spacing time. But between the NHL’s fears of the WHL becoming a a full rival and pressure from basketball for arena dates and market revenues (from 9 teams in 65-66 to 25 in 68-69) pretty much forced the NHL into an expansion arms race they never caught up with until now (Vegas, Seattle). The 90s expansion was as much about catch-up with the NBA, NFL, and MLB as actual expansion. The dilution was lessened by the larger AHL and the veteran-stocked IHL, the expansion of the Quebec, Ontario, and Western leagues, and tapping into the European leagues, so it wasn’t as bad as the 60s or 70s dilutions. But the NHL expansion, arrival of the WHA, and the WHA expansion was a serious dilution in the 70s (even the NHL’s plans for 2 every 2 years was serious diluting, judging by the KC and Washington expansion).
Saw a number of Seals games in the 70’s. Dad was from Boston and loved watching Bruins and other original six teams he never could back in the east coast. Oakland Coliseum arena was real easy to get to, much easier than the cow palace in SF or shark tank in SJ.
Right, you can't argue dilution of talent in an era when Vegas goes to a cup final in year 1 with every team's cast offs. Generally, I see the top AHL line or prospects in other places can swap in for NHL guys on any night pretty seamlessly.
I don’t see dilution of talent as an issue. There are definitely players in lower leagues who could be solid NHLers and depth NHLers who could play bigger roles for teams
There are enough bottom-6 forwards, bottom pair D-men, and goalies. With top-6 forwards and top-4 D-men, I'm not sure. On the other hand, in a 42-team league, about a third of the league will be rebuilding and not competing for anything, so they wouldn't really need good players...
Dilution of talent is real. Its not about icing a full team, it's about one team only needs two good defenseman ans a top goalie and they dominate. The gap between teams with top goalies or a couple of mega stars would widen. The best 32 goalies are NHL starters. Go to 48 teams and you are making the 16 best backups into starters.
Another option for a 36-team schedule would be to play only twice instead of three against the teams in the same conference but in the other division, hence only twice against 27 teams (54 games). This leaves 28 games to be played within the other 8 teams in your 9-team division, which means 3.5 games against division rivals (4 times vs 4 teams and 3 times vs other 4, and this can alternate the following season. So, 2 times against the other 3 divisions (27 teams) and 3.5 times against teams within your division.
During Gretzky's time with the Edmonton Oilers, it didn't take long for a rivalry to build up with the Calgary Flames. And with a decent Flames team, an Oilers win was not a guarantee. And so, the Battle of Alberta was born. Hopefully, someday it will be reborn.
I think there are several places you could move a team if one fails and the 4 expansion cities are Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta and Quebec. You can start with NBA markets that the NHL isn’t in like Milwaukee, WI; Portland, OR; Sacramento, CA, and several more. Then there’s Kansas City that has a NHL ready building. And San Diego has been mentioned as well
Would Love to see a team in San Diego, since that's where I started watching hockey as a 10 year old. I just don't see that happening though, even as a relocation site.
@@JonDoe-ln6nl Yeah, since the arena has been there since the 60's... but how can you support a team that is two hours or so away by car from the Kings and Ducks?
In the inevitable 36 team league, I'd be okay with the wild card being expanded to 4 teams, and each of those 4 teams doing a group stage (play each other once, 2 with most wins then +/- moves on). then 20/36 teams makes post-season and its future proofed until atleast 40 teams if that ever happens.
I don't necessarily think the return of a form of the neutral zone trap play isn't so much talent dilution as it is a natural response to the explosion of elite offenses. O-lines vs D-lines is always a back and forth battle.
Even with 6 divisions of 6 teams, one has to reduce games vs other conferences or reduce games vs teams within a conference but not the same divisions for rivalries to continue. If one reduces games vs the same conference but not the same division to 2 times a year, then it means one plays 30 teams twice a season for 60 games, which leaves 22 games vs other 5 division teams for an average of 4.4 times a season (2 teams 5 times and the other 3 you play 4 times). OR 1.5 times vs the other conference (27 games), 3 times vs the same conference but other 2 division teams (12 teams) for 36 games and just 19 games against your 5 division rivals for 3.8 games a season (4 times 4 teams and 3 times against one).
Pros: Teams in new major markets strengthening NHL media deal; more player jobs, more games on tv Cons: Dilute talent, dilute playoffs if more teams make it; less rivalry games, harder to win cup
In soccer in England, only a few teams make the playoffs, either 1 or 2 get promoted and then the next 4 make the playoffs, out of 23 teams. So, more than half missing the playoffs doesn't matter really. I really hate expanded playoffs because it removes the every game matters that we have now.
@Lonestarr022 Vegas and Seattle are the exception. They changed the expansion draft to favour them. Imagine they didn't, Vegas and Seattle would be at the bottom of the League with all they other teams that don't make the playoffs.
Crazy busy nights and harder for the fans and media to follow: This is already the case with baseball as every team plays every Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That is 15 games, 5 days a week, most in a 6 hour or so time frame of 7 PM Eastern to 1 AM on weeknights. The only really off days are Monday and Thursday. Other than home town fans, I don't think many people care about a Mariners Athletics game being played at 10 PM Eastern on a Wednesday night. The flip side is in attendance, as 81 home games is too much for almost any ordinary fan to attend, so this can have a negative effect on attendance revenues. Football is a much shorter full season schedule with 17 games per team, spread over 18 weeks. But most weeks there are 13 games being played in a 6 hour window between 1 PM Eastern and 7 PM. Bars and restaurants are packed during that time with fans and others have Watch Parties in their homes with friends and family. That is the Big Bang Effect the NHL will love to eventually achieve.
In most soccer leagues every team plays every other only twice a season and they still have pretty heated rivalries. Montreal vs Boston will be still Montreal vs Boston even if they play each other only twice a year. But to be honest, with a 82-game schedule either 2 or 4 games a season against one team does not mean a lot of a difference. Their results only add so much to your point total.
Thank you. Another great job HG. I am ok with expansion. However the NHL is not going to expand where I want it to. Quebec & Hartford. I get why not, they want to develop new markets. But as a Devils fan, would love to see another team in the North East as a rival, and I love love love the Nordiques jerseys back in play.
@@Merlin_From_Shrek_3Meruelo is simply a businessman who saw owning a sports franchise as a way to justify his plans for commercial real estate development and lied about his commitment to sports.
@@JonDoe-ln6nlLess original purchase price and money lost/spent on operations. But still a nice profit. Don’t forget $200,000,000 the league pocketed from sale to Utah.
The 6:48 mark features the start of a claim by THG of difficulty of fans and media to follow if more teams in NHL. As much as year-round I mainly follow Canadian teams, so many nights during the regular season feature, even if not weekend ones, anywhere from 3-6 such teams in action, with at least 2 of those teams not playing each other. 14 October Eastern Daylight Time will feature respective Sens afternoon and Habs evening home games but the: - Thursday EDT of the same week will feature, of broadcast start times: -- 7 p.m. for the Kings-Habs, Devils-Sens and Canucks-Panthers games -- 8 p.m. for the Oilers-Preds game - week of 27 January Eastern Time to feature, on the Thursday, broadcast start times of: -- 7 p.m. for the Jets-Bruins, Wild-Habs and Caps-Sens games -- 9 p.m. for the Ducks-Flames and Wings-Oilers ones Last postseason featured, in the 1st round, simultaneous broadcasts of 2 or more games that'd featured Canadian teams although after that round, things would become simpler as the Canucks and Oilers had won their respective playoff series and would face each other while the Jets and Leafs had been eliminated in their opening-round series. Whether this coming postseason 2 or more Canadian teams that don't face each other in the 1st round will qualify for playoff action remains TBD, given 3 Canadian teams in each of the Atlantic and Pacific divisions but only one, the Jets, in either of the others (Central).
counter: we already lost rivalries by having detroit in the east. My team’s playoff demon more than any other are the Red Wings, but now the Blues and Red Wings aren’t in the same conference. I think Blues are 2-8 or something all time vs red wings in playoffs, like it is atrocious how bad they are against the wings in the playoffs.
Keep the playoffs at 16 teams but have a preliminary round of the 7-10 place teams for the last 2 spots of each conference. For expansion the league probably has preferred places and other places as backups in case of a Thrashers losing their building problem.
I think an idea for the playoffs could be that the bottom teams have their own playoffs, maybe a best of 3 or 5, and that determines who drafts where. Just a thought
The only thing I fear about expansion is that it's going to spell a practical death sentence for the handful of franchises currently struggling just to stay afloat. When you have multiple teams having to relocate or, in the worst case scenario, outright fold because the new wave of teams that just came in rendered them competitively unviable, you end up more or less defeating the purpose of expanding in the first place.
I think you can go to 36 teams with six divisions of six teams each. The top two teams in each division make the playoffs then the next four in each conference are wildcard teams and the best plays the worst and the two middle teams play each other. The winners of those two are the last two playoff teams. Technically just over half of the teams make the playoffs, if you count the play-in round.
No more teams needed, 32 is perfect. I think the best way forward is relocation of less successful franchises in markets with low demand to markets with a demand
The NBA (now I don't follow Basketball) 30 teams and they have already expanded their playoff format. I would like to see the NHL to follow suit. The play in btw can be just seeds 7-10 competing for the last 2 spots (not seeds 5 ect like you were saying). In addition, I would like to see the loser point eliminated and only award 1 point for an OT win. This makes the game more competitive in the sense of trying to avoid OT.
The lack of an option for moving a team is a pro, not a con. When an owner tries to hold a city hostage for a new building, the city can tell the owners to buzz off. New buildings almosy exclusively benefit owners. Fans would prefer to keep a current building and not pay the taxes.
I don’t quite agree with the dilution of talent point only because there are times when you look at a team and there prospects and say but there are only so many roster spots. Same with goalies more teams more opportunities to play. I’m pro expansion but no more than 40 if they can get Canada more teams. And for the expanded playoffs if they go to 36 teams then you expand the playoffs to 18 teams just adds two more wild cards and then go from there.
If expansion happens to 36 teams then perhaps you can increase tbe games to 86 or even 88 games, expand the rosters on the team and mandate more rotations per game so players don't get wore out. The con to that is there are gonna be players who wanna be chasing milestones or records for various reasons and telling said players they have to take a day off is gonna be hard. Perhaps you would also expand the season longer of course to accommodate the 86 or 88 games but also to give teams more rest as a whole so players aren't getting burned out as easy and we aren't having teams with all their star players injured due to over training and lack of sufficient rest or sufficient time with their families. Any thoughts anyone ?
I think the NHL will do a similar deal with Amazon or AppleTV+ or maybe even Netflix depending on how the WWE deal goes once Expansion is in full swing. NHL needs to go more digital. NHL faces a lot of the same issues as baseball does but we are quicker and have a better TV product. Houston & Atlanta Phoenix & probably another Midwest market (Indy, Milwaukee or KC. Also I still don't understand why the NHL didn't move the Coyotes to Seattle in 2014/15. I think Ray Bartoszek and probably David Bonderman would have been a part of the ownership group. Also KC should have gotten the Trashers in 2012. Just from a business point of view.
They would never do this. If you don’t make the playoffs you’d lose ticket revenue compared to 82 games. If anything they’ll increase the regular season so they all make more money
Expansion seems inevitable. A lot of money, exposure, jobs, and new fans for the league to gain - sure - but how does that benefit us (as existing fans)? The pros outlined aren't really all that solid for "us".
IMO If NHL expands to 36 teams, they should have 3 - 12 team conferences. East, Central & West. Each conference would have 3 - 4 team divisions. Teams in same division would play 6 times each (18 games). Play the 8 other teams in the conference 4 times each (32 games). Play the other 24 teams in the two other conferences once a year, 12 at home and 12 on the road (24 games). That 74 games. That leave 8 games that the league would have flexibility to schedule. Such as if the Canadien teams always want to play home & home. Or league may want top teams from each conference to play home & home. Or use the 8 games for an in-season tournament at one location or international games. Playoffs would have 6 teams from each conference make the playoffs. When each conference champion is crowned, team with the best record of the 3 would get a bye to the final. Other two teams would play best of 7 series to get a spot in the final.
I found it ironic that after the dilution of talent argument that you mentioned Arizona and Buffalo,in which you seemingly unknowingly affirmed the dilution of talent argument. I'm also kinda miffed that Atlanta looks to be getting a third chance while Hartford and Quebec are pleading for a second whack at it. If the NHL is hellbent on expansion, they're gonna have to do something with the scheduling. I understand their desire to have every star in every arena every year,but the travel is bordering on the insane. An unbalanced schedule with a majority of divisional, then conference, and then a home and home against half the other conference would start some good rivalries and cut down on travel.
Which us the city with the smallest population/area population? Winnipeg? Calgary? Ottawa? Buffalo? You would end up with say 6-8 teams that miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years. The same teams. Amounts to small market teams being an intermediate step between AHL and nhl. Alternate farm system.
Im on the fenxe about this. I like AHL hockey though, so maybe im a bit biased. A lot of good players in the AHL and even in the ECHL (to a less extent).
I’m not sure if it’s a good idea or a bad idea, I’ll let the replies to this comment determine that. But rather than outright expanding the playoffs to another round of series as a “play in”, you just have a round of “pool play” for the wild card spots between the teams that finish 4th and 5th in their divisions. 2 pools of 4 teams, one for each conference. Each team within a pool plays each other once (that’s 3 games per team total, done in half a week) and the top two teams from pool play make the playoffs to round out the 7 and 8 seeds of each conference. Works for the World Cup and Olympic team sport formats.
I’ve thought of something like this, the only downside I can think of is it will lead to some meaningless third games, or you might have a situation where a game means something to one team but not the other. Which could lead to boring play, teams benching all their top guys, or worse, a frustrated team that knows they can’t advance might just say f it and start taking liberties with the other teem.
Keep the league at 32 teams. Four playoff rounds is alot. The original 6 was two playoff rounds. If you expand to 34 or 36 teams then there would have to be 18 teams making the playoffs. Teams 15 and 18, and 16 and 17 would play one game, before the whole playoffs would start. I guess that makes the teams 14 thru 18 competitive in the regular season. Teams would want to finish at least 14 and up in the regulat season. Once in awhile you could have an 18 seed team going on a miracle run. The NHL would have to go back to more of how many points you have to seed 1-18. I like that better than always having your opponent in the division.
In my view, out of the "Big 4" sports leagues in North America, the NHL along with the NFL are the least likely to expand in the next decade even though there is plenty of interest in expansion markets & it would generate more revenue for both leagues if they expanded (though in the NFL's case they don't really need it thanks to their media rights deal). This is because expansion would create more issues from a scheduling & playoff format perspective than the leagues are prepared to deal with. Now as for the league that will definitely expand soon, that is the NBA as it is imminent that they will expand to Vegas & the Sonics return to Seattle within the next year. I also think that the Pelicans relocate to Vancouver from New Orleans so that the NBA gets a second Canadian franchise & Louisville gets the Hornets from Charlotte. Then when it comes to MLB, they are likely going to expand once the stadium situations with the A's & Rays are resolved as they will expand to Nashville (AL) & Utah (NL) to reach 32 teams.
Such a shame money overrides quality these days. 32, I believe is the perfect amount of teams. The NHL so desperately needs fresh blood in their PR and marketing and actually try to take some of the concepts of what has helped the other 3 pro North American leagues above them to see real growth.
Or, does it need to do things that are different from how the other leagues do it to accentuate their differences. Hockey is not like any of the other sports in NA. It's tougher to play due to cost and facilities, so it is harder to have that emotional/nostalgic connection that throwing or kicking a ball creates with baseball, basketball, american football, and soccer.
Con of expansion: THG burnout
Frozen Freakin' Frenzy, baby! 18-game nights!😂
Too late!
He will have AI competition in 3 years
But then a Pro is more THG videos .
The KC Straws and the arizona camelbacks
This is an apt day to talk about expansion, as I just ate a double cheeseburger and have expanded a bit myself.
What a coincidence, I too am about to consume a double cheeseburger.
Large cheese pizza here...not trying to watch my figure lol
@@dynjarren5454 this thread is rapidly expanding like the NHL during the late 60s-70s
Did you consider bids from multiple cheeseburger locations? 😂
32 is the perfect number of teams in the league. I like seeing all the western conference teams come to NY at least once bc I like seeing other NHL talent play live. Play-in games are a no-go. The playoff format needs to go back to 1-8 in each conference. 2 division winners 1-2 based on their points, and 3-8 in the conference sorted by points.
The 20:55 mark features a THG claim of supposed "expanded playoffs." The NBA, starting with the 2020-21 season, in each conference, allowed, on winning %, the top-10 teams in each conference to at a minimum qualify for the play-in tourney (PIT), with:
- the top-6 getting to automatically qualify for playoff action
- among the remaining 4 in the top-10 getting to compete in the PIT, with:
-- from the:
--- 2022 one, the 9th-seeded Atlanta Hawks and New Orleans Pelicans having qualified for playoff action that way
--- remaining 3 that took place before last month, the 7th- and 8th-place teams from each conference having qualified
-- the need for the 7th- and 8th-place teams to win just 1 game but the 9th- and 10th-place ones to each win 2, with, during the PIT of:
--- 2021, in the:
---- Western Conference (WC), the:
----- 7th-place Lakers having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff action
---- 8th-place Warriors having gone 0-2 and thus missed
---- 9th-place Grizzlies having gone 2-0 and thus qualified
--- Eastern Conference (EC), the:
---- 7th-place Celtics having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff action
---- 8th-place Wizards having gone1-1 and thus qualified for the postseason
---- 9th-place Pacers having gone 1-1 and, having placed so low, thus didn't qualify for a playoff spot
---- 10th-place Hornets having gone 0-1 and thus didn't qualify for postseason play
--- 2022, the respective:
---- 7th-place WC and EC teams, the T-Wolves and Nets, having gone 1-0 and thus qualified for playoff spots
---- 8th-place WC and EC teams, Clippers and Cavs, having each gone 0-2 and thus didn't qualify for postseason play
---- 9th-place WC and EC teams, Pelicans and Hawks, having each gone 2-0 and thus qualified for postseason play
---- 10th-place WC and EC teams, the Spurs and Hornets, having each gone 0-1 and thus missed that postseason
--- 2023, the Lakers, T-Wolves, Hawks and Heat (all top-8 finishers during regular-season play) having each qualified but the Pelicans, OKC Thunder, Raptors and Bulls having not qualified for playoff action
--- 2024, the Pelicans, Lakers, 76ers and Heat having (also top-8 finishers on regular-season winning %) qualified for playoff action but the Kings, Warriors, Bulls and Hawks having missed
The NBA also has an in-season tourney, something I see the NHL as likely to put in place as a so-called PIT.
NHL needs to work on just promoting its product before it expands it.
💯
It's product being the players more specifically the stars!
Agreed
@@TjayK2 totally
@@v4v819 Here in America, ESPN really does need to do a better job of covering guys like McDavid, MacKinnon, etc. the NHL in general is terrible in marketing some of its best players
Greatest goal scorer of this generation came out of Arizona
That goes into one of the points of new fan bases the actual sport of hockey has grown a whole hell of a lot in Arizona since the coyotes were here.
He didn’t come from a hockey family, so if it wasn’t for the Phoenix Coyotes, he would be playing in another sport.
@@modeisin7 Yet still almost nobody there gave a shit about the Coyotes for 28 years...
@@ElmerFudd16 Mathews isn't an option excuse to burn millions of dollars in dead markets. McDavid is from Ontario and Ontario teams make a profit for the league. Mathews came from Arizona but profitable teams spend money on keeping that fanbase afloat and developing the systems that would expose him.
I for one don't wanna buy a jersey from my favorite team only to have the proceeds go to paying the opposite teams salaries
@@modeisin7 So then I guess that means the NHL should have a team in Halifax because of Sidney Crosby then, right?
I personally have to thank the Golden Seals. Playing them on a Monday night gave me my only chance to see a game at the Montreal Forum.
Personally, every HABS fan should thank the Golden Seals 🦭 ✨️ for the fateful trade that brought GUY LAFLEUR to Montreal
@@yoholmes273and in a weird way, Patrick Roy
I watched replays of old cup runs on my phone while working at the Cineplex in the Forum - close enough I guess haha.
@@yoholmes273 In effect, that gratitude has to go to Charlie Finlay who, by his own admission, knew absolutely nothing about hockey.
No one should ever forget that once upon a time your favorite hockey team was the new kid on the block, and I'm sure old fans were'nt happy when new teams showed up. Because some hocky fans in general seem to really obssess over the negative and be resistant to new things. And if your confident your team can beat a new one you should'nt have anything to worry about.
In my opinion expansion allows new players a chance to take part in the NHL and new fans get a chance to experience it too. So I'm always going to be open to expansion I find it fun to see which new team we get. Expansion also gives players who don't get alot of attention a chance to try to prove themselves and more than once that chance has been taken advantage of. Also I don't think there's anything boring at all about teams choosing to be defensive and try to clamp down on the other team. It can make goals feel more satisfying and it's far better than teams allowing 5 goals in one period.
Even though there is an equal number of pros and cons, it feels like this video makes a slightly better case against expansion. I agree with other who say that the NHL needs to work on expanding its visibility and marketing its players effectively, before actually expanding the number of teams. As you say Shannon, 32 is kind of a perfect number of teams.
I definitely agree that the league doesn't promote the stars like they should. Lots of lost opportunities indeed.
"Getting away from its roots". "Hi Gary. This is NASCAR. Welcome to the club".
To echo his comment on new fans in Arizona, I live around Phoenix in a sizeable neighborhood with lots of kids under 16. The only sports I see kids playing outside (when it's not a million degrees out) are street hockey and baseball. Never once have I seen a basketball hoop or football being used. Having the coyotes here for 20 years DID make a difference in driving interest in hockey, regardless of what pundits or random internet people that don't live here say.
lgrw
Nice SEALS jersey......I knew one of the original co-owners, ex- NY Giant player, Dick Lynch
Dick Lynch...isnt that what happened to David Carradine?
Dilution of talent was valid in the 70s and 80s, not now with the way the sport has grown; four more teams in the next 5-10 years (after CBS set, sigh), and yes for Quebec! Overall, more hockey, more excitement, developing rivalries...
Yup, back then a ton of players were stuck behind the Iron Curtain, not anymore.
Lmfao no to quebec.
Disagree. At the moment, one can see the dilution of talent in the defensive end. The league can lose four teams and it'd be the equivalent of losing less than every team's 4th line. The league needs to slow down on expansion at the moment to allow the talent to catch up.
No for Quebec... The economy isn't there outside of Montreal for any major sport let alone hockey... If you want to gain some insight in the economic trouble in Quebec outside of Montreal then google percentage of households over 100K annual income and then you will see the disparity in that province- even in their capital city- outside of Montreal which still has it's problems but does have all the wealth that Quebec has to show for itself...
@@deltagolavista1 Are you ready for Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, and Quebec?
Quite simply just have a play in between 8th and 9th in each conference. That would still be exactly half the teams making the playoffs. Could make it a best of 3 or even a 2 game aggregate score series.
The NBA over the past 4 seasons has put in a so-called play-in tourney that has featured those teams that in each conference, on regular-season winning %, placed 7th thru 10th qualify, with the winner of the game between the:
- 7th- and 8th-place teams getting to qualify, with, during the 2023 play-in tourney, the Lakers and Atlanta Hawks having gotten to qualify that way via respective wins over the T-Wolves and Miami Heat
- loser of the 7th-8th game and winner of the game between the 9th- and 10th-place team also getting to qualify, with, during the 2023 play-in tourney, the T-Wolves and Heat having gotten to qualify via respective wins over the:
-- OKC Thunder team that, in the Western Conference 9th-10th-place game, had beaten the New Orleans Pelicans
-- Chicago Bulls team that, in the Eastern Conference 9th-10th-place game, had beaten the Toronto Raptors
An ideal 36-team NHL alignment I think would look like this: ( Expansion teams Atlanta, Kansas City, Houston, Quebec City), 3 divisions per conference, an 84-game schedule where each team plays every team in the league twice, 4 times against teams in your division, and will play 4 additional games against teams from their conference ( 2 per division, rotated each season). Playoffs in this proposal would be that the top 9 teams in each conference make the playoffs with division winners guaranteed a top 3 seed and a best of 3 play between the 8 and 9 seeds. ( Basically the same format the league used from 1999-2013)
Eastern Conference
Northeast: ( Montreal, Quebec, Toronto, Ottawa, Detroit, Buffalo)
Metropolitan: ( Boston, NYR, New Jersey, NYI, Philly, Pitt, )
Southeast: ( Washington, Carolina, Columbus, Atlanta, Tampa, Florida)
Western Conference:
Central: ( Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville, Dallas, Houston)
Northwest: ( Minnesota, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Calgary, Colorado, Utah)
Pacific: ( Vancouver, Seattle, LA, San Jose, Anaheim, Vegas)
Switch Boston with Buffalo
You don't even spell Houston the right way
@@MathieuaccHe!! NO.
@@Mathieuacc Buffalo will never agree to being in a division that does not include Toronto. In this setup, I know this means separating Boston from Montreal and Toronto but Boston is more of a " metropolitan" area than Buffalo is ( Boston is much closer to NY than Buffalo is )
I think the biggest fan base expansion opportunity is right below the NHL's nose with the only Latin American IIHF country Mexico that has a traditional hockey game, pelota purepecha, Monterrey is a ski resort city with under an 8 hour drive to Houston, less than 10 to Dallas
I am all for it being hard to make the playoffs. What's the point of 82 regular season games if they barely matter?
The regular season only means so much but it still means something. 3 seasons ago the Canucks came so close to seeing playoff action despite having started with an 8-15-1-1 win-regulation loss-OT loss-shootout loss record. Those Nucks would finish the 2021-22 regular season with a 40-30-8-4 record, good enough for 92 points but still 5 short of a playoff spot. Although the following season those Nucks would finish with 83 points, 12 short of a playoff spot, the Sens, despite a similar start at 10-14-1-0, finished only 6 points back of a playoff spot. TBD will be whether for this coming season, there will be a fringe Canadian playoff team, with last season, among:
- Eastern Canadian teams, the:
-- Leafs having finished:
--- 3rd in the Atlantic with 102 points
---- 4 points ahead of the 4th-place Bolts
---- 11 ahead of the 5th-place Wings
-- Sens and Habs having respectively finished 13 and 15 points out of playoff spots
- Western Canadian teams, the:
-- Canucks and Oilers having finished with 109 and 104 respective points and thus, relative to the 4th-place Pacific Division Golden Knights, finished 11 and 6 points ahead
-- Jets having finished with 110 points and thus, relative to the 4th-place Central-Division Preds, 11 points ahead
-- Flames having finished 17 points out of a playoff spot but surprisingly just 1 point further back of 3rd in the Pacific (occupied by the Kings)
thanks for the hockey videos
Could also nhl expansion mean. More teams in junior ? More nhl teams. Means more demand to supply nhl teams with good players? More development programs. Etc.
Dilution happens when too many teams join at once in a short span of time. In the 1910s, the NHA/NHL and PCHL fought over a small pool of players, and it continued into the 1920s between the WCHL and NHL; the smaller/minor leagues of that era didn’t do enough player development to support expansion.
In the 60s, though, there were enough young players developing in the AHL and veterans in the WHL to support expansion, but too many joined at once. 2 at a time every 3-4 seasons (60, 63-64, 67-68) would have been adequate spacing time. But between the NHL’s fears of the WHL becoming a a full rival and pressure from basketball for arena dates and market revenues (from 9 teams in 65-66 to 25 in 68-69) pretty much forced the NHL into an expansion arms race they never caught up with until now (Vegas, Seattle).
The 90s expansion was as much about catch-up with the NBA, NFL, and MLB as actual expansion. The dilution was lessened by the larger AHL and the veteran-stocked IHL, the expansion of the Quebec, Ontario, and Western leagues, and tapping into the European leagues, so it wasn’t as bad as the 60s or 70s dilutions.
But the NHL expansion, arrival of the WHA, and the WHA expansion was a serious dilution in the 70s (even the NHL’s plans for 2 every 2 years was serious diluting, judging by the KC and Washington expansion).
We need "Hey, y not?" merch
That is so true about Calgary...I despise the flames....but I would hate to see them dissolved.
Saw a number of Seals games in the 70’s. Dad was from Boston and loved watching Bruins and other original six teams he never could back in the east coast. Oakland Coliseum arena was real easy to get to, much easier than the cow palace in SF or shark tank in SJ.
you had a great chance of seeing the bruins win as well. sounds like a good deal
Yup, more Bruin wins made for a happy Dad and resulted in more hockey games for me.
Right, you can't argue dilution of talent in an era when Vegas goes to a cup final in year 1 with every team's cast offs. Generally, I see the top AHL line or prospects in other places can swap in for NHL guys on any night pretty seamlessly.
I don’t see dilution of talent as an issue. There are definitely players in lower leagues who could be solid NHLers and depth NHLers who could play bigger roles for teams
There are enough bottom-6 forwards, bottom pair D-men, and goalies.
With top-6 forwards and top-4 D-men, I'm not sure.
On the other hand, in a 42-team league, about a third of the league will be rebuilding and not competing for anything, so they wouldn't really need good players...
Look at what Vegas did right away with mostly 3rd liners.
There are not enough great players to go around now.
@@Chester_C.Pingbat lol they drafted and were handed hood players, Just like Seattle and this new team might just fo as well
@@karlosspades7293 I don't mean cup in year 6, I meant Division title and SCF in year 1. No drafting and they only looked for picks back, early on.
I only see it as a Pro , it makes the Cup even more meaningful , the more teams the harder it is to win .
If your team is never going to win, what's the point of watching
Yeah, it’s fun until your team literally never wins
I’m a sharks fan since the beginning . I understand the long wait . But I still watch every game .
Working on an idea for future expansion and league structure, so it's great to see some con arguments to build my arguments around.
Dilution of talent is real. Its not about icing a full team, it's about one team only needs two good defenseman ans a top goalie and they dominate. The gap between teams with top goalies or a couple of mega stars would widen. The best 32 goalies are NHL starters. Go to 48 teams and you are making the 16 best backups into starters.
Do it in reverse and see what teams would look like with contraction to 24.
a case can be made for half the backups in the nhl being worthy of being full time starters.
@@Lonestarr022The '22-'23 Vezina winner played one game in the '24 playoffs.
I Do think the NHL got it right with both Vegas and Seattle.
Another option for a 36-team schedule would be to play only twice instead of three against the teams in the same conference but in the other division, hence only twice against 27 teams (54 games). This leaves 28 games to be played within the other 8 teams in your 9-team division, which means 3.5 games against division rivals (4 times vs 4 teams and 3 times vs other 4, and this can alternate the following season. So, 2 times against the other 3 divisions (27 teams) and 3.5 times against teams within your division.
Hamilton , Houston , Quebec City & Kansas City should be the next expansion cities all have solid fan bases & arenas all set to go .
During Gretzky's time with the Edmonton Oilers, it didn't take long for a rivalry to build up with the Calgary Flames. And with a decent Flames team, an Oilers win was not a guarantee. And so, the Battle of Alberta was born.
Hopefully, someday it will be reborn.
That Seals sweater is mint
Oh my god I’m early. Anyways you and Gary Bettman need to discuss air hockey next time you guys call.
3 divisions of 6 in each conference, top 2 make the playoffs 4 wild cards have an nba style play in tournament for the 7&8 seeds
I think the biggest cons in having more teams is the slow death of rivalries. Boston Montreal or Toronto Montreal don’t even feel special anymore
Would help if Montreal hasn't sucked for nearly a decade
Boston-Toronto would have some heat if Toronto wasn't so shit
I think there are several places you could move a team if one fails and the 4 expansion cities are Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta and Quebec. You can start with NBA markets that the NHL isn’t in like Milwaukee, WI; Portland, OR; Sacramento, CA, and several more. Then there’s Kansas City that has a NHL ready building. And San Diego has been mentioned as well
I think the NHL learned the lesson harder than any other major sport league that moving a franchise is NOT good...
Would Love to see a team in San Diego, since that's where I started watching hockey as a 10 year old. I just don't see that happening though, even as a relocation site.
@@mgourley1234SD needs a new building.
@@JonDoe-ln6nl Yeah, since the arena has been there since the 60's... but how can you support a team that is two hours or so away by car from the Kings and Ducks?
Lot more cons then pros keep it at 32
This would be the right time to expand the playoffs to idk like 24 teams
Back in the NBA in the 80s and 90s SLC and Seattle had a healthy rivalry. Maybe it rekindles in the NHL?
God I miss the Aeros!
In the inevitable 36 team league, I'd be okay with the wild card being expanded to 4 teams, and each of those 4 teams doing a group stage (play each other once, 2 with most wins then +/- moves on). then 20/36 teams makes post-season and its future proofed until atleast 40 teams if that ever happens.
I don't necessarily think the return of a form of the neutral zone trap play isn't so much talent dilution as it is a natural response to the explosion of elite offenses. O-lines vs D-lines is always a back and forth battle.
Excellent video. Sums it up perfectly
Here early let's go! Love the content. Keep it up. Would love more islander content. Coming from an islander fan of course
Even with 6 divisions of 6 teams, one has to reduce games vs other conferences or reduce games vs teams within a conference but not the same divisions for rivalries to continue. If one reduces games vs the same conference but not the same division to 2 times a year, then it means one plays 30 teams twice a season for 60 games, which leaves 22 games vs other 5 division teams for an average of 4.4 times a season (2 teams 5 times and the other 3 you play 4 times). OR 1.5 times vs the other conference (27 games), 3 times vs the same conference but other 2 division teams (12 teams) for 36 games and just 19 games against your 5 division rivals for 3.8 games a season (4 times 4 teams and 3 times against one).
Pros: Teams in new major markets strengthening NHL media deal; more player jobs, more games on tv
Cons: Dilute talent, dilute playoffs if more teams make it; less rivalry games, harder to win cup
So Arizona failed but they gave us Matthews.
Will miss the yotes, Arizona is real for giving us mats though
@@patch8376 hell yes they did. And there's more to come. This sucks for yotes fans. They will be back. Hopefully soon.
Let's go Kraken!!
Yotes failed because they didn’t have a place to play.
Expanded playoffs with 8 vs. 9 in a 1 game wildcard game would be cool, but anything more than that becomes goofy really quick
It would be interesting to see the NHL of all leagues, have the most teams of any of the major 4 sports.
In soccer in England, only a few teams make the playoffs, either 1 or 2 get promoted and then the next 4 make the playoffs, out of 23 teams. So, more than half missing the playoffs doesn't matter really. I really hate expanded playoffs because it removes the every game matters that we have now.
it really seems like 32 might just be the right amount of teams, adding more teams will not make the product better, it could water it down instead
we haven't seen the game get worse with the additions of Vegas and Seattle, if anything, the league has been even better with those additions.
@@Lonestarr022 I agree that's why I said 32 was the right amount, 8 teams per division makes sense
@Lonestarr022 Vegas and Seattle are the exception. They changed the expansion draft to favour them. Imagine they didn't, Vegas and Seattle would be at the bottom of the League with all they other teams that don't make the playoffs.
Yes!! A SEALS jersey!! I can die in peace now!!
Crazy busy nights and harder for the fans and media to follow: This is already the case with baseball as every team plays every Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That is 15 games, 5 days a week, most in a 6 hour or so time frame of 7 PM Eastern to 1 AM on weeknights. The only really off days are Monday and Thursday. Other than home town fans, I don't think many people care about a Mariners Athletics game being played at 10 PM Eastern on a Wednesday night. The flip side is in attendance, as 81 home games is too much for almost any ordinary fan to attend, so this can have a negative effect on attendance revenues. Football is a much shorter full season schedule with 17 games per team, spread over 18 weeks. But most weeks there are 13 games being played in a 6 hour window between 1 PM Eastern and 7 PM. Bars and restaurants are packed during that time with fans and others have Watch Parties in their homes with friends and family. That is the Big Bang Effect the NHL will love to eventually achieve.
In most soccer leagues every team plays every other only twice a season and they still have pretty heated rivalries. Montreal vs Boston will be still Montreal vs Boston even if they play each other only twice a year. But to be honest, with a 82-game schedule either 2 or 4 games a season against one team does not mean a lot of a difference. Their results only add so much to your point total.
True but soccer is a different animal it not all about the sport itself.
Thank you. Another great job HG. I am ok with expansion. However the NHL is not going to expand where I want it to. Quebec & Hartford. I get why not, they want to develop new markets. But as a Devils fan, would love to see another team in the North East as a rival, and I love love love the Nordiques jerseys back in play.
Arizona does support their teams.... as long as they are not putrid garbage with no direction.
Oh and don't forget that it's important for the owner to not be a complete scumbag
Same in Atlanta. Can't reason with the gatekeepers though.
@@Merlin_From_Shrek_3Meruelo is simply a businessman who saw owning a sports franchise as a way to justify his plans for commercial real estate development and lied about his commitment to sports.
@@tombraider2500And walked away with $1Billion.
@@JonDoe-ln6nlLess original purchase price and money lost/spent on operations. But still a nice profit. Don’t forget $200,000,000 the league pocketed from sale to Utah.
The 6:48 mark features the start of a claim by THG of difficulty of fans and media to follow if more teams in NHL. As much as year-round I mainly follow Canadian teams, so many nights during the regular season feature, even if not weekend ones, anywhere from 3-6 such teams in action, with at least 2 of those teams not playing each other. 14 October Eastern Daylight Time will feature respective Sens afternoon and Habs evening home games but the:
- Thursday EDT of the same week will feature, of broadcast start times:
-- 7 p.m. for the Kings-Habs, Devils-Sens and Canucks-Panthers games
-- 8 p.m. for the Oilers-Preds game
- week of 27 January Eastern Time to feature, on the Thursday, broadcast start times of:
-- 7 p.m. for the Jets-Bruins, Wild-Habs and Caps-Sens games
-- 9 p.m. for the Ducks-Flames and Wings-Oilers ones
Last postseason featured, in the 1st round, simultaneous broadcasts of 2 or more games that'd featured Canadian teams although after that round, things would become simpler as the Canucks and Oilers had won their respective playoff series and would face each other while the Jets and Leafs had been eliminated in their opening-round series. Whether this coming postseason 2 or more Canadian teams that don't face each other in the 1st round will qualify for playoff action remains TBD, given 3 Canadian teams in each of the Atlantic and Pacific divisions but only one, the Jets, in either of the others (Central).
counter: we already lost rivalries by having detroit in the east. My team’s playoff demon more than any other are the Red Wings, but now the Blues and Red Wings aren’t in the same conference. I think Blues are 2-8 or something all time vs red wings in playoffs, like it is atrocious how bad they are against the wings in the playoffs.
32 is perfect, raise the cap so we can pay to keep every good player playing
Keep the playoffs at 16 teams but have a preliminary round of the 7-10 place teams for the last 2 spots of each conference.
For expansion the league probably has preferred places and other places as backups in case of a Thrashers losing their building problem.
Always good, a crash course on the NHL
Atlanta...
Houston.... Phoenix.... Portland
Houston has been waiting forever for a shot to join the nhl. It feels like it's long overdue
They need to add more Original Six teams so more people care about the Original Six.
I’d love to see 2 or 3 more Montreal Canadiens teams added.
@@dennish.7708 Montreal & Toronto could support a second team easily
We need a new Renfrew Creamery Kings.
If that mean then return of Hamilton Tigers, Montreal Maroons and New York American..
I'm in favour of it.
I think an idea for the playoffs could be that the bottom teams have their own playoffs, maybe a best of 3 or 5, and that determines who drafts where. Just a thought
There are plenty of plausible markets out there. The concerns for expansion are owners and arenas.
San Jose vs Vegas is a great rivalry
Not enough quality players to fill any rosters
The only thing I fear about expansion is that it's going to spell a practical death sentence for the handful of franchises currently struggling just to stay afloat. When you have multiple teams having to relocate or, in the worst case scenario, outright fold because the new wave of teams that just came in rendered them competitively unviable, you end up more or less defeating the purpose of expanding in the first place.
I think you can go to 36 teams with six divisions of six teams each. The top two teams in each division make the playoffs then the next four in each conference are wildcard teams and the best plays the worst and the two middle teams play each other. The winners of those two are the last two playoff teams. Technically just over half of the teams make the playoffs, if you count the play-in round.
No more teams needed, 32 is perfect. I think the best way forward is relocation of less successful franchises in markets with low demand to markets with a demand
Agreed but theyll never agree because MONEY
The NBA (now I don't follow Basketball) 30 teams and they have already expanded their playoff format. I would like to see the NHL to follow suit. The play in btw can be just seeds 7-10 competing for the last 2 spots (not seeds 5 ect like you were saying).
In addition, I would like to see the loser point eliminated and only award 1 point for an OT win. This makes the game more competitive in the sense of trying to avoid OT.
Hardest Working man in Hockey
The lack of an option for moving a team is a pro, not a con. When an owner tries to hold a city hostage for a new building, the city can tell the owners to buzz off. New buildings almosy exclusively benefit owners. Fans would prefer to keep a current building and not pay the taxes.
If they go to 36 teams, then I still don't think Quebec is in there.
With spare talent alone you could easily add a couple more teams !
I think owners will want to get as much expansion as possible before 2026 when players will want a piece of the fees.
I don’t quite agree with the dilution of talent point only because there are times when you look at a team and there prospects and say but there are only so many roster spots. Same with goalies more teams more opportunities to play. I’m pro expansion but no more than 40 if they can get Canada more teams.
And for the expanded playoffs if they go to 36 teams then you expand the playoffs to 18 teams just adds two more wild cards and then go from there.
If expansion happens to 36 teams then perhaps you can increase tbe games to 86 or even 88 games, expand the rosters on the team and mandate more rotations per game so players don't get wore out. The con to that is there are gonna be players who wanna be chasing milestones or records for various reasons and telling said players they have to take a day off is gonna be hard. Perhaps you would also expand the season longer of course to accommodate the 86 or 88 games but also to give teams more rest as a whole so players aren't getting burned out as easy and we aren't having teams with all their star players injured due to over training and lack of sufficient rest or sufficient time with their families.
Any thoughts anyone ?
I think expansion is awesome if it works out.
I think the NHL will do a similar deal with Amazon or AppleTV+ or maybe even Netflix depending on how the WWE deal goes once Expansion is in full swing. NHL needs to go more digital. NHL faces a lot of the same issues as baseball does but we are quicker and have a better TV product.
Houston & Atlanta
Phoenix & probably another Midwest market (Indy, Milwaukee or KC.
Also I still don't understand why the NHL didn't move the Coyotes to Seattle in 2014/15. I think Ray Bartoszek and probably David Bonderman would have been a part of the ownership group.
Also KC should have gotten the Trashers in 2012. Just from a business point of view.
Have first, second and third tier. With teams getting relegated or promoted. It makes it more interesting for supporters of teams that never wins now.
The NHL will have to lower the amount of regular season games and expand the playoffs.
They would never do this. If you don’t make the playoffs you’d lose ticket revenue compared to 82 games. If anything they’ll increase the regular season so they all make more money
That would kill revenue for teams in rebuilds that already struggle to get fans into games.
Expansion seems inevitable. A lot of money, exposure, jobs, and new fans for the league to gain - sure - but how does that benefit us (as existing fans)? The pros outlined aren't really all that solid for "us".
IMO If NHL expands to 36 teams, they should have 3 - 12 team conferences. East, Central & West. Each conference would have 3 - 4 team divisions. Teams in same division would play 6 times each (18 games). Play the 8 other teams in the conference 4 times each (32 games). Play the other 24 teams in the two other conferences once a year, 12 at home and 12 on the road (24 games). That 74 games. That leave 8 games that the league would have flexibility to schedule. Such as if the Canadien teams always want to play home & home. Or league may want top teams from each conference to play home & home. Or use the 8 games for an in-season tournament at one location or international games. Playoffs would have 6 teams from each conference make the playoffs. When each conference champion is crowned, team with the best record of the 3 would get a bye to the final. Other two teams would play best of 7 series to get a spot in the final.
I found it ironic that after the dilution of talent argument that you mentioned Arizona and Buffalo,in which you seemingly unknowingly affirmed the dilution of talent argument.
I'm also kinda miffed that Atlanta looks to be getting a third chance while Hartford and Quebec are pleading for a second whack at it.
If the NHL is hellbent on expansion, they're gonna have to do something with the scheduling. I understand their desire to have every star in every arena every year,but the travel is bordering on the insane. An unbalanced schedule with a majority of divisional, then conference, and then a home and home against half the other conference would start some good rivalries and cut down on travel.
Which us the city with the smallest population/area population?
Winnipeg?
Calgary?
Ottawa?
Buffalo?
You would end up with say 6-8 teams that miss the playoffs 9 of 10 years. The same teams. Amounts to small market teams being an intermediate step between AHL and nhl. Alternate farm system.
Im on the fenxe about this. I like AHL hockey though, so maybe im a bit biased. A lot of good players in the AHL and even in the ECHL (to a less extent).
I’m not sure if it’s a good idea or a bad idea, I’ll let the replies to this comment determine that.
But rather than outright expanding the playoffs to another round of series as a “play in”, you just have a round of “pool play” for the wild card spots between the teams that finish 4th and 5th in their divisions. 2 pools of 4 teams, one for each conference. Each team within a pool plays each other once (that’s 3 games per team total, done in half a week) and the top two teams from pool play make the playoffs to round out the 7 and 8 seeds of each conference.
Works for the World Cup and Olympic team sport formats.
I’ve thought of something like this, the only downside I can think of is it will lead to some meaningless third games, or you might have a situation where a game means something to one team but not the other. Which could lead to boring play, teams benching all their top guys, or worse, a frustrated team that knows they can’t advance might just say f it and start taking liberties with the other teem.
@@slakcheetah4989 yeah you’d have to cancel meaningless games. As soon as you mathematically have 2 teams moving on, you stop the pool round.
now this is crazy, but hear me out. How about a team in Vladivostok?
niet
36 teams
8 and 9 seeds play in
Good video fun to think about new team possibilities will we see a 36 team league one day? Also do we get more games or it will remain at 82?
Top 8 of each division should make the playoffs, first 3 rounds within your division
Surprise, surprise, Shannon wants the league to support the stars! (sorry, bad Dallas Stars pun)
Any references to the ....... is a bad idea 🚧🚧🚧🚧
“You have to be a damn good skater”, THG is working “blue”.
Keep the league at 32 teams. Four playoff rounds is alot. The original 6 was two playoff rounds. If you expand to 34 or 36 teams then there would have to be 18 teams making the playoffs. Teams 15 and 18, and 16 and 17 would play one game, before the whole playoffs would start. I guess that makes the teams 14 thru 18 competitive in the regular season. Teams would want to finish at least 14 and up in the regulat season. Once in awhile you could have an 18 seed team going on a miracle run. The NHL would have to go back to more of how many points you have to seed 1-18. I like that better than always having your opponent in the division.
I like upsets in a playoff play in
In my view, out of the "Big 4" sports leagues in North America, the NHL along with the NFL are the least likely to expand in the next decade even though there is plenty of interest in expansion markets & it would generate more revenue for both leagues if they expanded (though in the NFL's case they don't really need it thanks to their media rights deal). This is because expansion would create more issues from a scheduling & playoff format perspective than the leagues are prepared to deal with. Now as for the league that will definitely expand soon, that is the NBA as it is imminent that they will expand to Vegas & the Sonics return to Seattle within the next year. I also think that the Pelicans relocate to Vancouver from New Orleans so that the NBA gets a second Canadian franchise & Louisville gets the Hornets from Charlotte. Then when it comes to MLB, they are likely going to expand once the stadium situations with the A's & Rays are resolved as they will expand to Nashville (AL) & Utah (NL) to reach 32 teams.
Such a shame money overrides quality these days. 32, I believe is the perfect amount of teams. The NHL so desperately needs fresh blood in their PR and marketing and actually try to take some of the concepts of what has helped the other 3 pro North American leagues above them to see real growth.
Or, does it need to do things that are different from how the other leagues do it to accentuate their differences. Hockey is not like any of the other sports in NA. It's tougher to play due to cost and facilities, so it is harder to have that emotional/nostalgic connection that throwing or kicking a ball creates with baseball, basketball, american football, and soccer.
I like shutdown hockey