INSANE Plane Designs for BY BLOOD ALONE - 3 of 7
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- čas přidán 28. 09. 2022
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#hoi4 #bybloodalone #hoi4dlc - Hry
I found that Rocket rails (which is unlocked by researching rocket artillery), is a really good and cheap way to add CAS to primarily fighter designs. It only gives +4 Ground strike, but they do not give any agility penalty and costs only 1, so a perfect addition to a fighter role.
i dont know how hoi4 calculate mission. if it just take every stats of a plane assign in that region and calculate total >attacks
It may not be meta, but I like making CAS with a at gun and load up on rocket rails for ww2 a10 knock off
But its useless becuase they can only do one role at a time. Either cas or air superiority. Cas doesnt need agility either which is anothe point
Hawker Typhoon
@@ThefanaticFoxUser not really, if you have limited mil capacity, i think it's worth making a plane can can fill more than one role since then you can just focus on pumping more of one airframe instead of asking yourself whether you want to pump out more fighters or more CAS
of course not a big deal if you're a USA or USSR
but for a Romania or Yugoslavia, there's a question to be asked there
One of the missed opportunity for the update is to have a separate manpower pool for pilots, which is not mandatory for air wings but gives you incremental penalties for air forces when diminished....
Like a specialty population? Having to train pilots would be interesting
Oooh I like this, would work for Navy too.
Single engine, twin machinegun fighter is essentially a HOI TIE Fighter 😆
That would be single engine twin cannon.
Unfortunately you can't select "No Parachute" to mimic the lack of life support on a TIE.
@@ecognitio9605 "Non-strategic materials". Cheap and disposable.
Technically for a TIE Fighter build, you should use two engines. T.I.E. stands for Twin Ion Engine afterall.
Armour and MG's with a small bomb bay , Feedback Descovers B-17
Long Range Maritime Partol Aircraft might just be the Sub counter we have been looking for, depending on how high you can get the detection.
That would be the short Sunderland flying boat. The Germans used the condor for convoy spotting. It's nice to have historic options. Wonder how well a boulton Paul defiant would work.
Fill all the slots with torpedoes and you have something that obliterates enemy navies. Very expensive plane but insanely powerful.
@@redaethel4619 Even a very expensive plane is cheaper than most of the boats it sinks.
Cheap fighters are terrible. The cost isn't in the modules, it's in the airframe itself. It's way cheaper to add the expensive modules if it means you trade better. You save fuel, manpower, and you gain more aces and veterancy for the air wing.
Custom scout planes will be really useful in multiplayer I think. Basically dollar store, WW2 U2 spy planes to see where people's armies are
In my first Italy game I started to build up a serious air force in 1940 after researching the 1940 light airframe and design a Fighter and CAS model.
After I had enough of them they literally shredded through the enemy planes while the CAS did insane damage to the ground troops.
I haven't tried out the medium or heavy airframes yet but for me the planes are kind of overpowered right now because once you get fully developed Jett fighters and CAS it gets even more ridiulous.
I feel as if with this new expansion that Anti Air will be more widely produced in various ways.
Because if people spam lots of cheap planes. I would think that having AA all over would push back on the quantity approach.
I wonder how the multiplayer game approach will be as well as the single player
cheap planes suck, especially fighters they get beamed and arent even that cheap
Multiplayer I don't think it'll be an issue as you can just make better fighters and AA which will make the air bonus negligible and trade worse. In singleplayer I can definitely see the use for it though
I wish you could set waypoints for planes, for example if a plane has enough range, uk bomber could have a way point in denmark and then go bomb bavaria and then go straight back to UK
Nice, but a lot of Bad Fighters will drain a lot of Manpower, so it would only be rly good for majors
i always have problems with manpower you‘re so right
Imagine playing Canada and doing this... you can either get a lot fast or actually have the capacity to have a lot with the dumb focus tree.
How much manpower do you lose when one plane gets shot down?
on top of that you will lose airwing exp.
@@padmad3832 I think deploying a Plane costs 20 manpower..
I experimented a bit with cheap fighters and just giving them light MG's, however I found that then they simply don't have enough punching power, not even against other light fighters so my guess is you will need at least heavy MG's to keep downing enemy fighters as the game progresses.
69 IC heavy fighter with insane attack, speed and defence is such a meme. It might take a while to produce them, but they rarely get shot down and they shoot down a lot of planes.
I heard from the competitv community (HMM / red baron players) that that might be the new meta
I am using rocket rails on fighters currently and on paper this should be the meta. You’re only paying 1 pc for 4 ground attack, double that and you have more than the cas slot without losing 15 agility. I believe the meta will be a fighter w/ best single engine with cannons and rocket rails. A cheap fighter which can dogfight and attack ground units if needed. There you have it, a compromise of everything Dave listed to be the possible meta.
Add drop tanks and if you're rolling in rubber add self-sealing fuel tanks. The cost on those is trivial and the extra range and air defense are more than worth it.
Btw I think they forgot to adjust the supply amount of the transport planes in correlation to the amount you have. They are way cheaper now and give the same supply as before, so its way easier to get good supply.
Yeah next patch they're getting 500% cost increase
@@FeedbackIRL
500%??
Big oof!
@@MrNicoJac I mean, 4 is a bit silly.
@@MrNicoJac 500% increases is just 20 ic which is cheaper than most fighter
Something I'd like to see added, perhaps in a future update or mod, is flying wing aircraft like the B-35 or Ho 229.
So if the first slot determines the rol of the aircraft, u could stack the designer modifiers of the nation plus the doctrines to get some insane buffs on multiroles right?
Correct! You can game the system
I love how the first two recommendations boil down to very effective planes that actually stood the test of time, they being the Hurricane that in large part won the Battle of Britain (the Spitfire production had only just begun) and the IL-2 Sturmovik of the Soviet Airforce that was actually called a flying tank even back in the day
No tickling of my brain cell please. He gets to mellow and does no thinking after.
I'm just happy I can finally larp my US air force. PBY blackcats, PBJs (B25s w/ cannons), B17 gunships for escort, etc
when i heard they wanted to add floatplane modul and flying boat, i hope they could also land in port but when i found the facts they rejected the idea, this kinda makes me sad
Multirole planes, I think, are gonna be good for minor nations fighting other minor nations that have a small/don't have an air force
Asian/south American air forces
Being able to customize the planes to have additional range I think will be a boon to Italy where so many of their air strips are at really awkward positions, so having certain ranges for certain designs should be really good.
Can't believe the madlads made scout planes worth it
For you cheap fighter you forgot "non-strategic resources" modification that makes it cost no aluminum
I think one of the best features of the aircraft designer is now we have the ability to quickly convert different plane types. If you get air supperiority and no longer need a ton of fighters you can turn them into CAS. Because airwings deploy really fast, you can even delete figther wings get the planes back to the stockpile, convert them and redeploy; something you can't do with tanks because they take a really long time to train.
That's a horrible idea - you'd lose all your wing's XP just to add one module....!
I mean, in the game as it currently is, it's a horrible idea
I agree with you that it should be an easy and cheap option!
But I doubt it'll get patched in 😒
@@MrNicoJac for what I've seen airwing XP has a minimal effect when compared to sheer plane numbers, and plane loss kills the XP anyway. I do not care about losing it when reforming them.
@@miguelrodriguezcimino1674
Well, air wing XP seems pretty darn important actually 🤔
Freshly-deployed air wings have -20% attack, -15% agility, and +15% night penalty. Whereas Regulars (highest exercisable) get +4% attack, +6% agility, and -4% night penalty.
That difference is not even that big yet, but if you manage to get Veteran air wings, those bonuses jump to +20% attack, +30% agility, and -20% night penalty.
Compared to completely untrained wings, that's an _enormous_ difference...!
You note that numbers matter, and that lost planes decrease your experience.
I have some bones to pick with that, too.
Firstly, in my experience at least, tech level matter much more for losses than numbers of planes. If my Fighter 3s go against the AI's Fighter 2s, I can have half their planes and it's just a matter of time until I have as many as they do, and then more (as long as my industry can replace my losses, and my fuel doesn't run out).
The only time when numbers in the air seemed to matter for me, was against bombers getting through.
Secondly, the air wing XP seems to do weird things when taking losses.
Like you wrote, I've also found that air XP seems to remain constant if you're trading roughly 1:1.
However, weirdly enough, your wing's experience actually _rises_ once you cannot replace losses!
Like, when I only make CAS but keep my Tactical Bombers around until they die out, they somehow always seem to drop to half the original wing size, stabilize in numbers at that point, and yet reach max veterancy...? 🤨
(I'm not sure whether that's because that's just how long it takes me to gain air dominance, or because their veterancy increases their stats to the point they essentially become invulnerable, though)
Anyhow, TLDR:
If you care about numbers, then going from -20% and -15% to +20% and +30% is a **massive** deal.
It will make your planes _so much_ more effective that you need way fewer of them.
So I think you're really hurting yourself by not caring about air wing veterancy...
(that said, it's just a game, so if you have more fun playing your way, then by all means carry on)
@@MrNicoJac I found that the air game can be summarized in two possible scenarios: you either have industry and tech advantage to get air supremacy, in which case air XP is irrelevant since a mix of lvl 2 and lvl 1 airwings will be enough; or you don't have supremacy, in which case your airwings will get killed and wont be able to gain levels fast enough and the best bet is try to spend the meager industry you have in AA for your ground divisions thus air XP is again irrelevant.
i think there'll be a couple of schools of thought: 1. stupidly heavy bombers:maximum attack with high air defense and hp at the sacrifice of speed (flying fortress of sterioids) 2:cheap fighters:entirely what was said in the video 3 max cas: which is for when you have air supremacy and just wanna ground pound
I've actually been making mostly light airframes with 4x light machineguns and bomb locks so I have a multi role fighter/CAS aircraft, my secondary one is entirely torpedos for naval missons.
When I first got the DLC, I did notice the Heavy Naval Bomber (Patrol Naval Bomber), honestly so cool
One thing I noticed is that air superiority mission is now SEPARATE from all the other mission types. ie. Old style you can tick all the mission types available and AI will pick which one is most suitable for the wing and send it to do that mission.
BBA this behavior still holds true except for air superiority. A wing assigned to air superiority cannot be assigned to any other mission types. This means you can have other forms of multirole aircrafts, but you would probably still want dedicated fighters (since fighter bombers can't auto switch mission types to ground attack when there are no enemy fighters in the area).
meta: 0.1 production cost cas with 0.1 ground attack
mass-produce tens of thousands
convert the design to 0.4 ground attack with 1 IC
10 combat width anti-air divisions
profit
BASED
i think meta will be medium fighters (medium plane) , as they are only slightly more expensive and for just fraction of cost you can make them have lots firepower and speed , especialy patch notes said there is cap malice for agility(meaning if you reach that cap agility no longer helps)
Especially air battle seams to be war for attrition
today game reinforced that , light fighters cant even dent/damage medium bombers , i had single 4x mg but my AA shot down them slowely , and fighters just disrupted them with not shoting almost anything ever
@@SchwertKruemel I seen jets in Spanish civil war today , SP.
Flying spy tank. Doesn't get shot down, doesn't fight, just spies. Also make transport planes a toggleable option like interspecies compability in Stellaris.
You are the best hoi4 youtuber imo. Keep it up!
❤️❤️❤️😭
This Plane Designer mind not seem like much to some people, but it's a HUUUGE change.
It drives your creativity, needs knowledge and understanding, and it can turn the tide in wars, especially in Multiplayer.
So many diverse plane builds possible, you gotta react to what the enemy is building, or you catch him offguard with your plane builds.
It's massive and I love it!
That's just until the meta settles though...
Once it does, you'll have to pick between a few options, or watch your creativity get nuked by the boring now-standard
Just wanted to say that as a lifetime internet vagrant, that thumbnail gave me a good chuckle.
We PLANED for this!
Did they do a naval rework as well? It would be great to get a video about that, if you have the time.
For fighter's i use small airframe with cannons, heavy mg's and the best single engine tends to work extremely effective
In my swiss run, I made full tac on upper slots but it said weight exceeds(it doesnt even pass thrust). I had to remove one of them eventually but overall it performed well. Also production cost is quite low.
Self sealing fuel tanks is one of the best, but it is an extra 2 rubber if I’m not mistaken, making it really only viable on the UK or perhaps Germany if you invest heavily into refineries.
Or US/Japan depending who wins the spice islands.
@@arkad6329 that’s true, I forgot the US has basically infinite civs for trading. I played a Japan game and found that it the strategic resource saving was very useful also if I wanted to have any chance of a decent air force before war.
Yeah self sealing rubber cost adds up. I would recommend extra armour instead
I feel like bomb bays are strictly worse on anything intended to be multirole than bomb brackets, because they only give marginally more ground attack in return for always reducing the plane's agility, not just when it's actually on a bombing mission. It's honestly really weird how they don't have any upside.
I found that so far, armor REALLY helps all planes, even fighters, because your air wing will lose WAYYY less experience. By 1941 as Germany I had 12 Veteran Fighter Air wings. Also IMO this update made Naval bombers WAYYY stronger as well.
One thing I've wondered about this patch, is why 2 engines have the same agility as one engine. It seems like a straight upgrade if you ignore the extra cost.
“A fish is just a worse whale if you ignore that they have gills”
swiss hospital is so frakin good in new hoi 4
Strat bombers are even more powerful with the USA now, I got mine to 189 bombing. While it took 40 factories just to get two per day, 200 of them bombed 80 German factories in about a month, granted most of their air force was at the soviet front and Britain destroyed all their interceptors.
Perhaps you will need 2 kind of Fighters 1 Air Sup Fighter with max Agility and Speed and just enough Firepower to kill a Fighter and second an Interceptor with max Firepower (and High Speed) to take down a Bomber and just more Agility than the Average Bomber has
I think the meta for fighters will be heavy fighters, top row full of 4x heavy mg, bottom row full of armor (self sealing fuel tanks if rubber is no issue anyway, but not if you're reliant on synthetic or trade).
I think a problem is balancing the amount of resources because the really light fighters still require rubber. So you might find it useful to add a little more anyway?
Edit: or does the material cost differ with different upgrades?
Maybe they should have called this expansion "Race for Sumatra"
I think the strategic resource reduction module is mainly for countries with a shortage of aluminum.
I really want them to enable putting a torpedo in the first slot of a medium airframe, since the small airframe doesn't have the flying boat option. So, it actually doesn't allow creating the old naval bombers at all atm.
more planes = bigger fuel consuption
my fav new plane is a heavy fighter with dual torpedos. Excellent for air superiority over large sea regions, and devastating when hunting down fleets (great for Japan)
They should require paratroopers to fight police and other resistance, which would take the paratroopers strength until a supply connection is established
hey feedback i found new fun exploit ,(or i think so) , since when you conquer etiopia as italy war not ends , you can use naval mines , im sure there is some fun cheese you can do to mine particular spots who will make allies pain/help axis win naval war , also let's you landlease with Germany :o
I think he made that already at mtg update years ago
I think it's worth investigating heavy fighters, depending on the country you're playing.
from what i found when i played small air frame+(2 heavy machine guns*2)+ the best engine= the perfect fighter
i had 500 planes trade 1 to 6/5 against 1000 allied planes in the Benelux regions
I always wonder how manpower will be affected like small will have 1 for chassis, medium will have 2 and large will have more due to crews also should adding rear gunners add manpower. It seems like there should be a manpower hit depending on how large is the the crew in the plane same with tanks
Had an interesting experience as portugal (became porto-brazil), since they have some good bonuses to small airframes, including research and production cost as well as factory output, I made some really sophisticated fighters with 1200 range and filled up weapon slots with 4x HMGs for maximum air attack, and even added fuel tanks. After joining the allies, I invaded sardinia, built an airport + radar there and sent 400 planes to see if I could have air superiority over italian skies. Results: approximately 1/5 K/D ratio for my planes. High production cost wasn't bad with those results, + I lost less manpower, also made air wing veterancy grow way more since I wasn't losing them left and right.
TL:DR High production cost fighters are pretty great, at least vs AI
I made a medium fighter with the bomber style turrets and stacked ground attack and with 1 agility. It did pretty good cas dmg but also traded like 10 for 1 in dogfights against the ai. Guess raw stats are better than having agility bc u can't go under 1.
Hey man, can you make a video about how to upgrade your fielded air fleet with newly researched airframes, because I wasn't able to do it. I tried everything from changing equipment tag to putting exactly same modules to the new airframes but I couldn't do it.
transport planes actually have been changed; they're much cheaper now
one thing i learned right now on the hard way is, that CAS with no agility or defence and YOLO damage die like Flies.
Ever since I ran three games in a row where I had air recon missions over ocean zones as US and Japan only to found out it wasn't helping me spot ships I've been really wary of it. If they give them that ability now they could really change the naval game up.
Unlocking air to ground radar helps you spot and massacre subs if you equip them on your planes.
Has anyone else had an issue with plane reinforcement as Italy? Planes just seem to go into stockpile rather than fill-up airwings.
Anyone else find it weird that on steam reviews people are complaining about not understanding the designer? Like I'm no rocket scientist, it's just adding/removing parts and looking at what numbers go up or down on the stat sheet. Also... the dlc is literally just released, nobody's an expert yet!
You have scouting planes somewhat wrong. Read the Tool Tip Any Fighter, Torp, Bomb, Cannon Weapons Forbid the Scouting Role Mission. Only Defense Modules Like Turrets are allowed... Found this out the hard way. The Cameras allow air recon still however.
Just change the mission. I don't think you understand
@@FeedbackIRL He's half right. You can't use a plane that has attack modules as a pure scout plane.
A pure scout plane can do recon missions above neutral countries and gives you intel similar to spies. You can see an "Air recon: x%" when you hover over a country's intel ledger tab.
A multirole plane with a camera can do the recon mission but only above hostile states. You can't use it to spy on countries you aren't at war with.
Honestly, I don't even care about the air meta. I'm really looking forward to Role-Playing these designs.
Helpful for when I buy BBA In a few months
Havent touched the new update yet but i was wondering if we could build something like big airframe plane with high defense and attack. Its like battleship, but in the air. Battleplane?.
The flying tank is pretty funny. Slapping everything the slots allow is not so innovative or mindblowing and at 50is prodcost is pretty expensive.
The best fighter was already found day one on release. Improved medium hull 4x4 HMG level 3 quad engine 5xarmor plates. Its expensive but 100% the best you dont even loose any vs ai
Alternatively swap 1 armor to self sealing fuel tank if you have the rubber for it
Lol, so basically a B-17 flying fortress, but with 16 HMGs in the wings??
That would look ridiculous IRL 😂
I thought they brought in some testers for this DLC?
Nice
A few things I've noticed about this update.
1. Mandatory 100 plane squadrons are overkill for smaller mission requirements such as maritime patrol and scout planes.
2. Seaplanes need to be able to be stationed in ports, credit @luthfi nst
3. We need better explanations in game about how things interact with each other like AA and air defense for CAS, or how agility affects damage(AA and enemy planes?)
Is it good to put your planes under your generals command rather than manually placing from different places? Will this also increase the chances of air superiority if it's under generals command?
a "flying fortress" desing might be viable. you put on a large airframe:
-as many machine guns as you can
-as much armor and fuel tanks as you can
also put a bomb bay
Can't have machine guns on large airframes. Have to get air attack from turrets
@@FeedbackIRL ok. with as many turrets, armor and fuel tank you can slap on it, it could be viable
i have no idea why interception intercepts ONLY bombers, and nothing else? how does that make any sense?
Maybe those flying boats make subs obsolete :)
That would be something new...
I try to leave a comment on every video. To quote Dankus, “Trust in the meta, (what I’m about to do) is not meta, but trust in the meta.”
Unless I'm doing something wrong it seems like a aircraft with its 1st weapon slot set to recon equipment can ONLY be a scout, it can't get guns, bombs, or torpedoes. I tried to make an F-3A (a A-20 Havoc variant) using a medium airframe with a recon camera in slot one and a tactical bomb bay in slot 2 plus a bunch of fuel and the game just rejects the design. Meanwhile I made a PB2Y Coronado flying boat by having torpedoes in slot 1 and a recon camera in slot 2 and the game accepted it but the planes do very little recon; 28 "PB2Y"s were doing .01 recon flying over Korea while 10 F-3As (obviously without any bomb bay) were doing .05 recon.
I'll probably see myself usually using light or medium fighter-bombers.
Are they changing how airfield capacity works? Or is each plane still just 1?
I don't how paradox wants us to play USSR when you need to research shit ton of things with 3 research slot and 4th coming very late
So.. I can make the Spruce Goose...Nice!
Waiting for stuka versions to be designed such as kanonenvogel bloody hell
Only what U need to win are fighter III and good medium bomber, with this U gonna shred enemies
I they Should do 6x100kg bombs than Small or Big Bombay. NGL I just want to recreate the Pe 8 5000KG bomb
can same airframe (light,med,large) with different modules be convert to and back? like if we have med frame with 3slots of bombays be convert to a same med frame with 3slots of cannons instead?
I think they can, but one of them would have to be set as outdated
rocket powered ultra fast carrier naval bombers maybe?
you should add self sealing tank I will just have a few cannon and machine gun ton of engine
Improved small airframe, 1x Antitank Cannon II, 2x Antitank Cannon I = 31 ground attack. Best CAS ever!!!
The problem I see here is that there are not enough research slots to do all this.... until now u had to choose between Fighters and anti-air but now you have to go tanks or air cuz there are not enough slots to do everything.
in Sp just build the most expensive one and use the tank exploit on planes :D
Wow
No such cheap design will lose you air battle in the long run, the loss are massive like one day you could lose hundreds of planes
Help us Dave, I don't understand Air anymore.
Are navies obsolete?
Naval Patrol Bomber _ AKA PBY Catalina
for me is a cheaper fighter as possible and for bombers, the stronger one... and Static AA
So basically you made an Il-1
did they fully kill air wings of a non-100 number? if so, that kinda sucks as it means smaller nations in early wars can't be as flexible with airzones as they used to be.