Saddle choice is always difficult. I eventually settled on the tried-and-true Brooks B17. However, a B17 is never comfortable out of the box, it takes months to properly break one in, sometime several months. Once broken in, they are quite comfortable, and I have done century rides in jeans and ordinary underwear on a B17. In regard to saddle sores, as a former Army medic, one of the most common things I had to treat were rashes and skin infections, which are common in tropical places and the American South. A good way to prevent bacterial problems is to carry a small bottle of ordinary Head and Shoulders dandruff shampoo, and use it to wash your backside and shorts. The active ingredient, pyrithione zinc, is a good preventative/cure for saddle sores, tinea curis (known in the Infantry as "crotch rot") etc. Its cheap, easy to find, and it works.
My experience differs. I got on really well from the off with a B17, mostly I just don't notice it, which is I think as good as it gets. This includes multi day rides and just pottering around.
I got the worst saddle sores/infected hair folicals on an Ergon SMC Core with padded shorts. It was on a 1k mile tour earlier this year. I always get saddle sores on tours and long rides and I think it has more to do with padded shorts than it does the saddle. I have since switched toa Geyes G17 leather saddle and want to find riding underwear with no padding and no seams to cause chafing, but I have not been able to find any. But, I do believe, long rides and padded shorts are holding tons of bacteria. I’m glad I you have put this out there for like minded people to share info.
I am a big Ergon SMC fan as well. For my butt and my riding, I've found that triathlon shorts are a good compromise for distance riding. They have a thin pad but dry out very quickly and are easy to keep clean if you rinse them out every now and then, and will quickly dry out if you put them on wet and just ride. On longer trips I carry one pair of triathlon shorts and either a pair of thicker padded shorts or a pair of thin nylon compression shorts to use as underwear. With that configuration I find I still ride with the triathlon shorts two days out of three on average. Everyone is different but that is what works for me.
You are spot on with your question - I’ve been cycling 50 years and for a lot of that time padded shorts just weren’t available - cyclists didn’t need them 50 years ago and don’t need them now, I think the origin of padded shorts was when saddles become narrow to allow for an aero riding position for racing, that made saddles very uncomfortable hence adding padding to the shorts, the downside of that, as anyone who does a high intensity exercise knows, is that you need to allow sweat to get away from the body as quickly as you can hence runners wear the thinnest man made materials and not cotton undies!
Thanks for your opinion. It's especially good to hear from experienced cyclists. I'm interested to see what others say in the comments too. For me, padded shorts are more trouble than they're worth. Cheers 👍
A saddle is highly personal. Love this vid. I am 5’11” and big bottomed so I have been riding a Brooks c19 carved and have ridden over 3000 miles on it since last year. I do use padded shorts. I have not experienced sores or chafing. My longer rides are in the 60 mile range. Saddles are a little like shoes in that we should experiment and find one that fits and performs the best for you
I wonder if the carved bit makes a difference as you have more air flow ? i have one but have only used it on a in door trainer . I've tried various makes , SQ labs , SMP, are quite good . I 'm currently using a Specialized mirror & having good success with this .I've also swapped my cane creek ee silk suspension seat post to a Kinekt , It's a lot heavier but gives a lot more of a smoother ride on rough ground.
Great comparison Mat. I'm going to take a look at the Argon SMC. I'm moving on from my C-17 cutout as it is not comfortable anymore and gives me saddle sores as well.
Over many long distance tours on our tandem, we've given up on Brooks B17s and shifted to Selle Anatomica slotted leather saddles without padded shorts. They perform flawlessly, are very comfortable over long distances, and the slots eliminate nerve numbness down below. The leather gives enough to make padding irrelevant. We just completed 1200km across France using these saddles: no saddle sores, no discomfort, no nerve issues. They are heavier than most but the comfort offsets that.
You hit on the key element at the very beginning of this video. Your's is an opinion (granted an informed one), but saddle choice is a most personal decision. I started really seriously cycling in the early 70s, and I always had a Brooks Professional leather saddle. In 1976 I pretty much switched entirely to bicycle touring. For many years my saddle of choice was a Brooks B-17. I was always wearing padded cycling shorts. Talk about being rigid! A new B-17 is like riding a stone. But, what I really liked was the shape and fit were perfect for me, and the finish of the leather was so smooth that there was zero chance of chafing. This was the major downfall I found in every padded saddle I tried out over the years. I would ride them for a month or two, then always go back to the B-17. In 2016 I bought a custom built Norwid Spitzbergen (sized exactly for me, Columbus steel tubing, Gates carbon drive with a Rohloff Speedhub, internal cable routing, etc. - A fantastic expedition bike.). On this bike I made a saddle change. I got a Brooks Flyer Special. The Flyer Special has the exact same dimensions as the B-17, but it also has two large springs under the back of the saddle. The springs are very rigid (not bouncy at all), but at the end of a long day riding on rough surfaces you really notice the difference. I expect you'd get the same effect with a B-17 and a Cane Creek Thudbuster seat post, but the combined cost of the seat post and a high quality saddle would be quite high. Anyway, it's always interesting to hear other people's experiences and to consider them when making new choices. For now though, I'll stick with my Flyer Special. Looking forward to following you on the Pan Am. One question...... Will you be following an established route, or will you plan an own route?
Hi. It's honestly fascinating reading comments like this. My response can't do it justice. I'll be setting off on the classic TransAm route on 22nd July. Thanks for all of this information. Cheers 👍
The reason so many long distance tourers swear by Brooks is their leather hammock construction. The C17 is their one model that does not benefit from that design. If you already found a saddle that you can spend a whole day on, good for you, but if you ever feel the need for more comfort, I would give leather Brooks a chance (or a leather saddle from some other manufacturer).
Unless you're a die hard Brooks enthusiast, the first couple hundred kms can give you pause. When new, the saddles are hard. But (and this is a big BUT...), they eventually conform to YOUR butt. That makes all the difference in the world. I can't imagine riding anything else.
Tbf I think it IS true to say the C17 is a 'hammock' design, but it's not adjustable and it doesn't mould to your bum like a B17. I'm sure many will have tried both, and as one who has I'd say they're completely different beasts. For me the B17 was great from day one and I've over 10 thousand miles on it so far. The C17... four hours was enough thank you.
Good morning, Mat, or maybe afternoon by the time you read this. That's a valid question, and the answer is one that many would like to know, obviously, for comfort reasons. I totally get why you ask and I agree with learning from people with more expeience, but unforunately this is not necessarily the holy grail to making the right choice. Personally I'm careful about giving advice, especially in cases where personal preferences rule the outcome, because what works for me may very well be equally as wrong for whomever receives my advice, and that's why my response this time is not going to be an advice or a specific suggestion, but more than anything just my humble opinion. The problem arising when people make suggestions, is that they are coming from a 100% subjective frame of mind, leaving out a number of considerations, and that's - of course unintentionally on the part of the one making the suggestion - how you also may end up in trouble. While some suggestions or advice will agree with your needs, there is a fair share that will not, and coming to something as personal as picking the right saddle for your long distance ride, using the wrong one could have serious implications. As someone well versed in long distance hiking, you know how important having the correct shoes is. Just like feet, all bums are different and personal needs can be extremely diverse. I have trouble expressing myself in few words but I guess what I'm saying is that nobody here can actually tell you what will work well or what to go for. It's your body and your needs, so the truth is your best chance of finding what works for you is physically testing different seats. Specific advise should be considered as general guidance purposes only. Sounds to me like you're well on your way with the Ergon, but whether or not it's "THE ONE" I expect you will find out while doing the TA 🙂 Also, many bikeshops offer a lending service that allow you to test different seats for a few days at a time. For free of course. This could be a good way to source a seat if you have LBS's that offer this service. Back in the 90ies I had a Scott mtb that had the best seat I've ever had, and I've been dreaming of finding something similar ever since. It was a gel-seat, very rounded shapes and the perfect width for my anatomy. The seatcover was acryllic, which of course you know is very smooth and "slippery", so chafing of any kind was never an issue. I could ride for days on end without ever even considering bibs. Unfortunately someone nicked it when I was at school. I really need to find a new seat myself, as I'm getting a lot of chafing from bibshorts. On a roadbike I'll wear bibs but on my trailbike I'd rather not. Cheers 🙂 Sincerely A.K.
Hi. Thanks for taking the time to write this. I feel like my response won't do it justice, but I can assure you I've read the whole thing and agree with everything you say. I like the analogy with hiking shoes. I hope I have found the correct saddle and, as you say, I'll find out over the next few months. Good luck on the search for another Scott saddle. Cheers 👍
I bought the same Ergon saddle after you talked about it in your videos at the end of the GDMBR, and I have had zero issues with it. Im the same as you as in I don't wear padded shorts, and haven't had any issues with saddle sores or pressure sores.
Hi Mat. I have the same requirements as you for a saddle, I'm fed up of relying on padded shorts for multi day trips. Too much maintenance. This video reminds me that I still haven't done a necessary sit-bones measurement. I'll do it tonight. No doubt it'll be an Ergon in a style that suits the drop-bar riding position on my touring bike. My sit up and beg style MTB position may well require a slightly different style of Ergon saddle. Looking forward to your next trip and saddle experiences 🙂👍
I totally confer. Getting ready to do the GDMBR in a month and I have the Ergon SMC and have been training with no chamois for a couple of months. I have several back to back centuries on it with no issues. I went down this route to avoid the slow drying of a chamois and synthetic material. Training has been with alpaca and merino wool underwear which is quick drying and anti-bacterial. I've been very happy with the setup.
It sounds like you have the perfect set up. Bib shorts are a nightmare on long trails, in my opinion anyway. I should experiment with merino wool underwear. Good luck on the Divide.
@@matryderreviews I've had good luck with merino wool and alpaca. If you believe the alpac marketing it's even better than merino. I've found both to be good but I've pushed the alpaca further than I've tested the merino. I have an alpaca shirt that I've worn for probably 3 weeks of riding without washing, just letting it air dry between trips and feels fresh enough putting it back on and no odor. Though my friend says her shirt smells a little like wet dog when it gets wet😀. I'll take that over the stench that my normal cycling gear produces after a single ride.
Finding the right saddle is a minefield and an expensive one at that. I'm looking to get a new one and torn between the SMC and E-sm. Trouble is once you have bought it and removed the packaging it's non refundable. Great review. Got yourself a new subscriber.
I started out with the C17 because they look great and seem so durable (which they are). Switched to a narrow ergon about a year ago and really like it as much as one can like a bike saddle...
Invest in an SQlab 612. It's the saddle of choice for many ultra distance cyclists. Also tilt your saddle down about 3 to 5 degrees at the front. Trust me , after 40+ years of cycle racing and long distance riding, I found out the hard way what actually works.
No numbness or arm pain, and more importantly, less pressure on the sensitive areas that suffer pain on long rides. Most saddles have a raised back, so tilting them down slightly makes the sit area in the middle actually level. Try it with a short spirit level on the front and middle of the saddle.
totally agree with you, have the Brooks C19 and its the same construction as your C17 ... no padding which I can deal with but you have to wear underwear under the padded cycling shorts to be comfortable and maintain good hygiene (sounds gross but it is what it is)...but the thing is those saddles never 'wear in' like the old school leather ones so they never adapt or become more comfortable over time. their USP is to be waterproof but to me that is meaningless for some thing u sit on ! I will probably try an upgrade in time, thanks for highlighting the Ergon ... cheers mat - i came here from the 'other channel' btw
Hi. Interesting point. I think you're right. It sounds like the leather Brooks saddles have unique properties. I was tempted to give one a try. Maybe I still will. I'll see how it goes on the TransAm. Thanks for the support on both channels! 👍👍
I picked up a similar Ergon based on your previous comments about it. I am liking it quite a lot. It is currently on my trainer bike so its been seeing a lot of use lately
the answer to your question is that it's preferable to have the padding on the shorts instead of the saddle because the padding moves along with your body and causes less chaffing than your body rubbing against a padded saddle also you normally use chamois cream that reduces chaffing and has anti-bacterial properties finally, saddle choice is personal and only half of the equation, the other half is proper fitting
Love my C17, I probably also chipped in and recommended it. Have one on my steel tourer and Broken Road, but I do wear bibshorts too even for shortish rides. My backside has never been happier having switched after getting a small sore with a Charge Spoon saddle. Ultimately, if you do a crazy long ride like the GDMBR then it's a lottery whether you get away with sores at alll no matter what saddle you use.
Over decades of my cycling experience the most important bit of advice for all types of bike fitting is - use "by the book" specifications and (if available) bike fitting as your starting point, then tweak to your own feeling as we are all different and small changes from the theoretical best may suit us best. Same applies to the saddle in my opinion. Took me long time to zero-in on my best fit (my riding is "rando" and "touring" mainly, similar to your topic and we seem of similar physical proportions). For me the winer is Brooks B-17 Narrow. I ride sometimes with padded shorts and sometimes without, B-17 Narrow feels good with either option. It is my best fit though, worth considering for others. Now in 9th yr of using it and no reason to switch.
The non padded saddle and padded shorts makes more sense for road racing where it’s only one or two days. But for days on end it does make more sense to go the other way.
Thanks for sharing, nice video and information. I got a touring gravel bike (it is an odd one) from Decathlon, it came with a Brooks C-15, the carved one.... completely unsuitable for the riding position and proposed use, I couldn't ride it for 10 mins even with padded shorts, I really don't understand why they went with a C-15 instead of a C-17. In any case, I put a Selle Italia ST 7 Superflow (similar to the Ergon) on the bike and even through single trail, forest roads, I've done 120Km in a single day without padded shorts and sure enough I got a bit bruised (I didn't pick the smoothest of the roads) but made me question why the padded shorts since a good saddle will do it with less hassle and maintenance....
What you missed is that all brooks saddles are hammocks, your bum is suspended between two anchors front and back. That creates suspension which then makes them comfortable. BUT also what is also important is saddle width based on your own bone width and riding position. On a flat bar bike like the Sondor more weight is on your seat compared to drop bars where more weight is on your arms, wrists and hands. A C19 saddle might be better for that uprioght position. the C17 you have there might work well on the Kona with drop bars. Hope I've explained that ok!
To add - your bone angle also changes depending on if you are leaning forward with drop bars or upright with flat bars, hence why a wider saddle is preferable with flat bars. Looks like your Brooks C17 suits the Kona, The wider (looking) Ergon might suit you on the Sondor.
This is very interesting. It's also very useful. I hope the video came across as more of a request to learn about saddles, than a guide. Thanks for commenting. Cheers 👍
@@matryderreviews No it was a great video - I'm not expert, these are my observations after many a sore arse from the wrong saddles! Good luck on the TransAm, what an adventure! And to be honest I wouldn't know which bike either but I'd veer to the Kona because of more roads. I have an old Salsa Vaya and i think they are similiar - very comfortable forgiving frame and upright position for long road or back road miles.
The cult following of Brooks saddles is something I don't understand. I've heard of others who had a similar experience with the C-17. My experience with the B-17 was that it developed a ridge in the middle that caused brutal chafing and it got worse and worse until it was unbearable. Everyone says "you probably tightened the frame too much" but I was loosening it and it didn't get rid of the "taint ridge". They require maintenance and they don't handle water well at all. I also have a Brooks Flyer Carved on another bike and it's pretty good but not without issues and constant adjustment to keep the same feel. I switched my B-17 for and Ergon SMC core much like you've done and I like this saddle a lot. I strongly recommend Ergon, I love all their products that I've tried so far.
I have a Flyer. It has about 1500-1700km and yes, a ridge started to form. I started to feel some pressure on the perineum, so decided to cut out a similar shape as in the carved models. It was just few days ago, but I think now I feel some pressure from the new edges. I also feel the back rail and the rivets there.
I am not a padded shorts rider, I have found the best saddle for long rides to be the leather Brooks. They just take a long time to break in so it will be a while till it does the job.
Everyone has different needs. I toughened up my butt when I was young, and I'm happy with a rock-hard saddle and no padding in my shorts. These days, I ride either a Brooks B17 or a Brooks C17.
I have been "waffling" (is that a word?) between different saddles and padded vs. non-padded shorts too. As everyone says it is all very subjective and personal.. I had been training with non-padded and Ergon SMC (core) for a couple months now. All was well until I did get one of those nasty sores (pimple).. I had hoped that not using padded shorts would simplify my trip in terms of what to take. I am about 4 weeks away from my long distance tour and have decided to go back to the pads for now.. I have found that not all padded shorts are created equal. I had used Assos Mille shorts on my last TransAm and had good luck with them. They have a wider protection area lower down where I did encounter sores and where other padded shorts really didn't help protect. So, I will bring a pair with me since they are very light weight. No way I could buy these on route. Should I have a problem, these shorts will make it much more bearable.. Good luck on your trip!
Sounds like a good plan to me. You can always adapt while you're out there. There are so many potential combinations of different saddles and different bib shorts. It seems like one of those never ending missions. Good luck with your long distance tour.
Similar experience; hated the Cambium, love the Ergon SMC. I got the gel version but the design is the same. Can’t speak to the gel because I didn’t compare them but the padding is quite firm. The saddle just felt right immediately. I also tried the flyer carved which is a very heavy saddle. It felt good but the cutout pinched the nether regions unless I wore pads so I nixed it.
Great review! Is the SMC any good for an upright riding/ touring position? I noticed you rode fairly upright during the GDMBR, same as me (85° back angle). I'm also considering the C19 since it's wider and usually recommended when sitting on your seatbones but I don't think that will solve the problem of hardness
For a little extra the SMC gel is good for ironing out the pocket seams on jeans… both are extremely water and mudproof too standup to a lot of abuse for mtb
I use the ergon smc sport gel . Have used it for just over 1600km now and I have to say it is excellent I dont use padded shorts anymore myself thanks to this saddle
I ride with a Prologo Dimension, it was good every time until about 50km of riding, after that it started to feel a little unconformtable. After that i bought Ergon SM Pro, it was incredible how much better it was UNTIL about 20km, after that i was i pain, every time! I had measured my seat bones (153mm) so i should be ok and wondered whats wrong.. well i found out that for me, a brand called SQLab recommends 160 or even 170mm wide saddles. Im rambling about this because it is so insanely induvidual what fits you. Two of my relatives ride a lot with 18€ Super market saddle😂
For me I prefer a flat saddle, that is rounded on the back, and 125mm wide. I just cannot get on with wide saddles. But that is just me, every arse is different.
As you know women get UTI's much easier than men and for that reason I chose NOT to use padded shorts. I have a saddle similar to the ergon SMC. I bring a spray with me of water and tea tree oil drops and use this to disinfect the inside of my riding shorts and gently my anatomical parts and even the saddle after each ride , so far so good! sometimes just a dab of vaseline helps to prevent any chaffing as a precaution.
Right now i'm three weeks without cycling due to a bacterial infection, just after my last bike ride. I'm better now, but it was extremely painful and cumbersome.
This Ergon saddle has flat part where sitting bones rest thus it doesn't stick into between as curved saddle do. I noticed several years ago my cheap Selle Grappa has flat sitting part and now I know there is a substitute would I need one. Thanks and have a good rides!
Thanks for the information Mat, did you get measured for the saddle? I see other riders getting their sit bones measured and wonder if this would prevent having to try several different saddles - which seems both expensive and a waste of resources. Thanks, Paul
Never found my C-15 comfy either. It flexes too much. I prefer narrower and harder saddles. But the killer these days is over-engineered chamois pads. The basic tound flate style of the 80s was it. Not really padded, designed more to prevent chafing.
Interesting stuff, my Kona came with the Brooks B17 which I’m trying to break in, I’m only about 180 miles in and it’s still killing me! I did get an Ergon SR for my Raleigh Gravel/cross/commuter and I’m thinking of swapping them over, I think the SR is a little more sporty than the SM? I’ve not ridden many miles on it.
I used far too much of that leather creme, following vids to do it lol, , so after finding a couple of videos saying to make it wet to brake it in I took it under the tap to rinse it. It became much better after that, and I've used it on my zwifting bike this winter where it still hurts after an hour in the static position. Now it seems to strech just behind the nose though....
I sold the B17 which came with my Kona. I didn't want the hassle of keeping it dry when on the trail. I genuinely believe it might be the best saddle for long tours once it's broken in. I'm too impatient.
I think some of Brooks problems is that we are not used to having leather in all sorts of applications anymore. There was another guy on CZcams who had to leave his bike outside the appartement building that said that the Brooks saddle was fine. My last trip I switched to them sports boxer shorts and not using the leather creme it seems that the leather helps wicking the moisture away. When I put the cover on the Brooks now, it is actually more for keeping the leather moist to the degree it is when I get off it. I will still be afraid of whole day torrential rain though. I just saw a gdmbr racer say he had a brooks fail him that way. So the leather will always be developing to either the better or worse, why I will be looking into something like the ergon as well, but the sweat wicking properties is worth a lot 🤔🤔🤔 thank you for the vid 👍 👍👍
@@117000000 People seem to love or hate the B17, doubt I'd ever have bought one but it came with the bike so I'd thought I'd try it. I will persevere this summer and maybe stick it on the indoor bike but I'm leaning towards getting a different saddle. I am tempted to try all the different cheats to speed up the process, what a pain in the ar..
@@matryderreviews A comfortable saddle is so important in enjoying cycling, I'm hoping its short term pain for long time gain, but I do lack the patience too! Its certainly the marmite of saddles!
I really liked the Brooks Cambium C13 Carved (Carbon Rails), but unfortunately I found it to be very squeaky over time, I think its where the rubber seating pad comes into contact with the carbon rails and the rivets, after a while it just got too much for me, I actually took it apart, greased the rivets and tried to resolve it that way but it remained a real annoyance so I dont use it anymore. . . .it was very comfy tho!!!
For me the Ergon is great, the Brooks are not. For the next rider, maybe the opposite. Only by chance did I discover the Wabi saddle that came on my Wabi Classics and lightning models, they have them all beat... for me.
Rookie question - the Ergon seems to be promoted as a mountain bike saddle. Does using it on a drop bar bike like a gravel bike compromise its effectiveness/comfort in any way? Thanks
My Kona has drop bars but I have them set high and back, and only ride in the hoods, , so I have quite an upright riding position, not too similar from my MTB. It works for me, but I can't comment on how it works with a more aggressive riding position. I hope that helps.
Sod Brooks, they weigh a ton, QC is rubbish, & their products cheaply made, but very expensive. I have a near new B17, that I got for my trail packing bike, (its near new for a reason) quality is poor at best; but if you're into leather, Berthoud is Rolls Royce, I have the Aravais (titanium rails) on my 1977 Flema, & love it. Recently I bought a very, very expensive Brooks bar tape. It was complete rubbish, I stripped it off the next day & threw it in the bin. On my race bikes, flat, hill climb, & my commuter, I ride light enough to use carbon rails. My tip top favourite is the Giant Fleet SLR forward, closely followed by the S-Works Toupe. I will never buy another Brooks product of any kind.
My Berthould Aspin was incredibly comfortable out of the box despite being hard as a brick. However, within a couple of weeks it began to sag. I tightened the bolt a bit and it was good again for a short while but sagged again. I have had it for more than a year, now, never been wet and it has developed a definite hammock profile that is not comfortable. The leather is starting to strain behind the nose so I dare not tighten it any more. I bought it because the leather was supposed to be stiffer than Brooks and with a flatter profile, which is what I like. I love the polished feel of the leather and comfort on the sit bones, not so much at the front. It has reached the point where I have to decide whether to lace it or sell it on while it still has value. If I could be sure the lacing would work, I wouldn’t hesitate, but I am loathe to butcher such a beautiful saddle that could end in failure. I have a Bontrager Verse, the standard cheap Trek saddle on my mountain bike and find it very comfortable, but not so sure it would work for touring on my upright Brompton. It is very similar to the Ergon in the video, but with a bigger, full cutout which makes all my discomfort go away. I doubt a Berthould with cutout would work for me as there would almost certainly be too much sag in the remaining leather. I about 75kg, so not enormously heavy for a leather saddle.
Ditch the unneeded saddle. You have clearly justified it's doesn't meet your needs. Besides, if it's not of a higher enough standard for a caterpillar, it's a no-brainer. No hoarding - get rid. Bet you wished you hadn't asked.
Saddle choice is always difficult. I eventually settled on the tried-and-true Brooks B17. However, a B17 is never comfortable out of the box, it takes months to properly break one in, sometime several months. Once broken in, they are quite comfortable, and I have done century rides in jeans and ordinary underwear on a B17. In regard to saddle sores, as a former Army medic, one of the most common things I had to treat were rashes and skin infections, which are common in tropical places and the American South. A good way to prevent bacterial problems is to carry a small bottle of ordinary Head and Shoulders dandruff shampoo, and use it to wash your backside and shorts. The active ingredient, pyrithione zinc, is a good preventative/cure for saddle sores, tinea curis (known in the Infantry as "crotch rot") etc. Its cheap, easy to find, and it works.
Very interesting. I'll get some (if I get saddle sores, which I will).
My experience differs. I got on really well from the off with a B17, mostly I just don't notice it, which is I think as good as it gets. This includes multi day rides and just pottering around.
I got the worst saddle sores/infected hair folicals on an Ergon SMC Core with padded shorts. It was on a 1k mile tour earlier this year. I always get saddle sores on tours and long rides and I think it has more to do with padded shorts than it does the saddle. I have since switched toa Geyes G17 leather saddle and want to find riding underwear with no padding and no seams to cause chafing, but I have not been able to find any. But, I do believe, long rides and padded shorts are holding tons of bacteria. I’m glad I you have put this out there for like minded people to share info.
I am a big Ergon SMC fan as well.
For my butt and my riding, I've found that triathlon shorts are a good compromise for distance riding. They have a thin pad but dry out very quickly and are easy to keep clean if you rinse them out every now and then, and will quickly dry out if you put them on wet and just ride. On longer trips I carry one pair of triathlon shorts and either a pair of thicker padded shorts or a pair of thin nylon compression shorts to use as underwear. With that configuration I find I still ride with the triathlon shorts two days out of three on average.
Everyone is different but that is what works for me.
Interesting. I'll look into those myself. Cheers 👍
You are spot on with your question - I’ve been cycling 50 years and for a lot of that time padded shorts just weren’t available - cyclists didn’t need them 50 years ago and don’t need them now, I think the origin of padded shorts was when saddles become narrow to allow for an aero riding position for racing, that made saddles very uncomfortable hence adding padding to the shorts, the downside of that, as anyone who does a high intensity exercise knows, is that you need to allow sweat to get away from the body as quickly as you can hence runners wear the thinnest man made materials and not cotton undies!
Thanks for your opinion. It's especially good to hear from experienced cyclists. I'm interested to see what others say in the comments too. For me, padded shorts are more trouble than they're worth. Cheers 👍
No cotton undies okay
DHB seamless boxers are my favourite & very cheap ,I've heard Souke are very good & alternating makes to stop any rubbing in the same areas .
A saddle is highly personal. Love this vid. I am 5’11” and big bottomed so I have been riding a Brooks c19 carved and have ridden over 3000 miles on it since last year. I do use padded shorts. I have not experienced sores or chafing. My longer rides are in the 60 mile range. Saddles are a little like shoes in that we should experiment and find one that fits and performs the best for you
We appreciate your opinion. I ended up getting C17 carved and it's surprisingly flexible! I'll know more when I hit my century ride, cheers!
I wonder if the carved bit makes a difference as you have more air flow ? i have one but have only used it on a in door trainer . I've tried various makes , SQ labs , SMP, are quite good . I 'm currently using a Specialized mirror & having good success with this .I've also swapped my cane creek ee silk suspension seat post to a Kinekt , It's a lot heavier but gives a lot more of a smoother ride on rough ground.
Great comparison Mat. I'm going to take a look at the Argon SMC. I'm moving on from my C-17 cutout as it is not comfortable anymore and gives me saddle sores as well.
Over many long distance tours on our tandem, we've given up on Brooks B17s and shifted to Selle Anatomica slotted leather saddles without padded shorts. They perform flawlessly, are very comfortable over long distances, and the slots eliminate nerve numbness down below. The leather gives enough to make padding irrelevant. We just completed 1200km across France using these saddles: no saddle sores, no discomfort, no nerve issues. They are heavier than most but the comfort offsets that.
The vid is sbout the C17, not the B17.
Apples and oranges, i have both.
Same same, but very different.
You hit on the key element at the very beginning of this video. Your's is an opinion (granted an informed one), but saddle choice is a most personal decision. I started really seriously cycling in the early 70s, and I always had a Brooks Professional leather saddle. In 1976 I pretty much switched entirely to bicycle touring. For many years my saddle of choice was a Brooks B-17. I was always wearing padded cycling shorts. Talk about being rigid! A new B-17 is like riding a stone. But, what I really liked was the shape and fit were perfect for me, and the finish of the leather was so smooth that there was zero chance of chafing. This was the major downfall I found in every padded saddle I tried out over the years. I would ride them for a month or two, then always go back to the B-17. In 2016 I bought a custom built Norwid Spitzbergen (sized exactly for me, Columbus steel tubing, Gates carbon drive with a Rohloff Speedhub, internal cable routing, etc. - A fantastic expedition bike.). On this bike I made a saddle change. I got a Brooks Flyer Special. The Flyer Special has the exact same dimensions as the B-17, but it also has two large springs under the back of the saddle. The springs are very rigid (not bouncy at all), but at the end of a long day riding on rough surfaces you really notice the difference. I expect you'd get the same effect with a B-17 and a Cane Creek Thudbuster seat post, but the combined cost of the seat post and a high quality saddle would be quite high. Anyway, it's always interesting to hear other people's experiences and to consider them when making new choices. For now though, I'll stick with my Flyer Special.
Looking forward to following you on the Pan Am. One question...... Will you be following an established route, or will you plan an own route?
Hi. It's honestly fascinating reading comments like this. My response can't do it justice. I'll be setting off on the classic TransAm route on 22nd July. Thanks for all of this information. Cheers 👍
@@matryderreviews Starting out on my 72nd birthday! Wow! That's great. You'll be riding the Adventure Cycling Trans America route?
That's the one. I've downloaded the ACA maps. Happy birthday for the 22nd.
@@matryderreviews Thanks! I'll be looking forward to your posts from the road.
The C17 carved is much more comfortable for long distance riding. I am basing this on many hours on both. Thanks for the video. Cheers
Thank you for making this video. It helped me make my decision.
The reason so many long distance tourers swear by Brooks is their leather hammock construction. The C17 is their one model that does not benefit from that design. If you already found a saddle that you can spend a whole day on, good for you, but if you ever feel the need for more comfort, I would give leather Brooks a chance (or a leather saddle from some other manufacturer).
Unless you're a die hard Brooks enthusiast, the first couple hundred kms can give you pause. When new, the saddles are hard. But (and this is a big BUT...), they eventually conform to YOUR butt. That makes all the difference in the world. I can't imagine riding anything else.
@@cdg-hzg Mine was an improvement over my previous saddle out of the box, but maybe the old one was just that bad.
Tbf I think it IS true to say the C17 is a 'hammock' design, but it's not adjustable and it doesn't mould to your bum like a B17. I'm sure many will have tried both, and as one who has I'd say they're completely different beasts. For me the B17 was great from day one and I've over 10 thousand miles on it so far. The C17... four hours was enough thank you.
This seems to be the general consensus.
Good morning, Mat, or maybe afternoon by the time you read this.
That's a valid question, and the answer is one that many would like to know, obviously, for comfort reasons. I totally get why you ask and I agree with learning from people with more expeience, but unforunately this is not necessarily the holy grail to making the right choice. Personally I'm careful about giving advice, especially in cases where personal preferences rule the outcome, because what works for me may very well be equally as wrong for whomever receives my advice, and that's why my response this time is not going to be an advice or a specific suggestion, but more than anything just my humble opinion.
The problem arising when people make suggestions, is that they are coming from a 100% subjective frame of mind, leaving out a number of considerations, and that's - of course unintentionally on the part of the one making the suggestion - how you also may end up in trouble. While some suggestions or advice will agree with your needs, there is a fair share that will not, and coming to something as personal as picking the right saddle for your long distance ride, using the wrong one could have serious implications. As someone well versed in long distance hiking, you know how important having the correct shoes is. Just like feet, all bums are different and personal needs can be extremely diverse. I have trouble expressing myself in few words but I guess what I'm saying is that nobody here can actually tell you what will work well or what to go for. It's your body and your needs, so the truth is your best chance of finding what works for you is physically testing different seats. Specific advise should be considered as general guidance purposes only. Sounds to me like you're well on your way with the Ergon, but whether or not it's "THE ONE" I expect you will find out while doing the TA 🙂 Also, many bikeshops offer a lending service that allow you to test different seats for a few days at a time. For free of course. This could be a good way to source a seat if you have LBS's that offer this service.
Back in the 90ies I had a Scott mtb that had the best seat I've ever had, and I've been dreaming of finding something similar ever since. It was a gel-seat, very rounded shapes and the perfect width for my anatomy. The seatcover was acryllic, which of course you know is very smooth and "slippery", so chafing of any kind was never an issue. I could ride for days on end without ever even considering bibs. Unfortunately someone nicked it when I was at school. I really need to find a new seat myself, as I'm getting a lot of chafing from bibshorts. On a roadbike I'll wear bibs but on my trailbike I'd rather not.
Cheers 🙂
Sincerely
A.K.
Hi. Thanks for taking the time to write this. I feel like my response won't do it justice, but I can assure you I've read the whole thing and agree with everything you say. I like the analogy with hiking shoes. I hope I have found the correct saddle and, as you say, I'll find out over the next few months. Good luck on the search for another Scott saddle. Cheers 👍
I bought the same Ergon saddle after you talked about it in your videos at the end of the GDMBR, and I have had zero issues with it. Im the same as you as in I don't wear padded shorts, and haven't had any issues with saddle sores or pressure sores.
Hi Mat.
I have the same requirements as you for a saddle, I'm fed up of relying on padded shorts for multi day trips. Too much maintenance.
This video reminds me that I still haven't done a necessary sit-bones measurement. I'll do it tonight.
No doubt it'll be an Ergon in a style that suits the drop-bar riding position on my touring bike.
My sit up and beg style MTB position may well require a slightly different style of Ergon saddle.
Looking forward to your next trip and saddle experiences 🙂👍
I just bought the B17 and I absolutely love it! If it is this comfy new, I can't wait until I get it broke in.
I totally confer. Getting ready to do the GDMBR in a month and I have the Ergon SMC and have been training with no chamois for a couple of months. I have several back to back centuries on it with no issues. I went down this route to avoid the slow drying of a chamois and synthetic material. Training has been with alpaca and merino wool underwear which is quick drying and anti-bacterial. I've been very happy with the setup.
It sounds like you have the perfect set up. Bib shorts are a nightmare on long trails, in my opinion anyway. I should experiment with merino wool underwear. Good luck on the Divide.
@@matryderreviews I've had good luck with merino wool and alpaca. If you believe the alpac marketing it's even better than merino. I've found both to be good but I've pushed the alpaca further than I've tested the merino. I have an alpaca shirt that I've worn for probably 3 weeks of riding without washing, just letting it air dry between trips and feels fresh enough putting it back on and no odor. Though my friend says her shirt smells a little like wet dog when it gets wet😀. I'll take that over the stench that my normal cycling gear produces after a single ride.
Finding the right saddle is a minefield and an expensive one at that. I'm looking to get a new one and torn between the SMC and E-sm. Trouble is once you have bought it and removed the packaging it's non refundable. Great review. Got yourself a new subscriber.
I started out with the C17 because they look great and seem so durable (which they are). Switched to a narrow ergon about a year ago and really like it as much as one can like a bike saddle...
Invest in an SQlab 612. It's the saddle of choice for many ultra distance cyclists. Also tilt your saddle down about 3 to 5 degrees at the front. Trust me , after 40+ years of cycle racing and long distance riding, I found out the hard way what actually works.
Interesting. I'll have a look at that saddle. I'll give the tilt a try. Cheers 👍
It is interesting what you said. Can you tell me does your arms hurt or do you feel numbness while you ride with seat tilt down? Cheers
No numbness or arm pain, and more importantly, less pressure on the sensitive areas that suffer pain on long rides. Most saddles have a raised back, so tilting them down slightly makes the sit area in the middle actually level. Try it with a short spirit level on the front and middle of the saddle.
I'll definitely give that a try. Thanks for the tip
Which one? They make 5 different ones
totally agree with you, have the Brooks C19 and its the same construction as your C17 ... no padding which I can deal with but you have to wear underwear under the padded cycling shorts to be comfortable and maintain good hygiene (sounds gross but it is what it is)...but the thing is those saddles never 'wear in' like the old school leather ones so they never adapt or become more comfortable over time. their USP is to be waterproof but to me that is meaningless for some thing u sit on ! I will probably try an upgrade in time, thanks for highlighting the Ergon ...
cheers mat - i came here from the 'other channel' btw
Hi. Interesting point. I think you're right. It sounds like the leather Brooks saddles have unique properties. I was tempted to give one a try. Maybe I still will. I'll see how it goes on the TransAm. Thanks for the support on both channels! 👍👍
Excellent Review for me, just what I needed to see, Cheers Mat!
I picked up a similar Ergon based on your previous comments about it. I am liking it quite a lot. It is currently on my trainer bike so its been seeing a lot of use lately
I really like mine. It seems very forgiving and doesn't need any breaking in. Good luck with yours.
the answer to your question is that it's preferable to have the padding on the shorts instead of the saddle because the padding moves along with your body and causes less chaffing than your body rubbing against a padded saddle
also you normally use chamois cream that reduces chaffing and has anti-bacterial properties
finally, saddle choice is personal and only half of the equation, the other half is proper fitting
Love my C17, I probably also chipped in and recommended it. Have one on my steel tourer and Broken Road, but I do wear bibshorts too even for shortish rides. My backside has never been happier having switched after getting a small sore with a Charge Spoon saddle.
Ultimately, if you do a crazy long ride like the GDMBR then it's a lottery whether you get away with sores at alll no matter what saddle you use.
I think you're right. Saddle sores on long rides are likely inevitable. The C17 combined with bin shorts was very comfortable.
Over decades of my cycling experience the most important bit of advice for all types of bike fitting is - use "by the book" specifications and (if available) bike fitting as your starting point, then tweak to your own feeling as we are all different and small changes from the theoretical best may suit us best. Same applies to the saddle in my opinion. Took me long time to zero-in on my best fit (my riding is "rando" and "touring" mainly, similar to your topic and we seem of similar physical proportions). For me the winer is Brooks B-17 Narrow. I ride sometimes with padded shorts and sometimes without, B-17 Narrow feels good with either option. It is my best fit though, worth considering for others. Now in 9th yr of using it and no reason to switch.
Great comment. Thanks 👍
The non padded saddle and padded shorts makes more sense for road racing where it’s only one or two days. But for days on end it does make more sense to go the other way.
Thanks for sharing, nice video and information.
I got a touring gravel bike (it is an odd one) from Decathlon, it came with a Brooks C-15, the carved one.... completely unsuitable for the riding position and proposed use, I couldn't ride it for 10 mins even with padded shorts, I really don't understand why they went with a C-15 instead of a C-17. In any case, I put a Selle Italia ST 7 Superflow (similar to the Ergon) on the bike and even through single trail, forest roads, I've done 120Km in a single day without padded shorts and sure enough I got a bit bruised (I didn't pick the smoothest of the roads) but made me question why the padded shorts since a good saddle will do it with less hassle and maintenance....
What you missed is that all brooks saddles are hammocks, your bum is suspended between two anchors front and back. That creates suspension which then makes them comfortable. BUT also what is also important is saddle width based on your own bone width and riding position. On a flat bar bike like the Sondor more weight is on your seat compared to drop bars where more weight is on your arms, wrists and hands. A C19 saddle might be better for that uprioght position. the C17 you have there might work well on the Kona with drop bars. Hope I've explained that ok!
To add - your bone angle also changes depending on if you are leaning forward with drop bars or upright with flat bars, hence why a wider saddle is preferable with flat bars. Looks like your Brooks C17 suits the Kona, The wider (looking) Ergon might suit you on the Sondor.
This is very interesting. It's also very useful. I hope the video came across as more of a request to learn about saddles, than a guide. Thanks for commenting. Cheers 👍
@@matryderreviews No it was a great video - I'm not expert, these are my observations after many a sore arse from the wrong saddles! Good luck on the TransAm, what an adventure! And to be honest I wouldn't know which bike either but I'd veer to the Kona because of more roads. I have an old Salsa Vaya and i think they are similiar - very comfortable forgiving frame and upright position for long road or back road miles.
The cult following of Brooks saddles is something I don't understand. I've heard of others who had a similar experience with the C-17. My experience with the B-17 was that it developed a ridge in the middle that caused brutal chafing and it got worse and worse until it was unbearable. Everyone says "you probably tightened the frame too much" but I was loosening it and it didn't get rid of the "taint ridge". They require maintenance and they don't handle water well at all. I also have a Brooks Flyer Carved on another bike and it's pretty good but not without issues and constant adjustment to keep the same feel. I switched my B-17 for and Ergon SMC core much like you've done and I like this saddle a lot. I strongly recommend Ergon, I love all their products that I've tried so far.
I have a Flyer. It has about 1500-1700km and yes, a ridge started to form. I started to feel some pressure on the perineum, so decided to cut out a similar shape as in the carved models. It was just few days ago, but I think now I feel some pressure from the new edges. I also feel the back rail and the rivets there.
I am not a padded shorts rider, I have found the best saddle for long rides to be the leather Brooks. They just take a long time to break in so it will be a while till it does the job.
Everyone has different needs. I toughened up my butt when I was young, and I'm happy with a rock-hard saddle and no padding in my shorts. These days, I ride either a Brooks B17 or a Brooks C17.
I think that's the ultimate solution. The best of all worlds.
I have been "waffling" (is that a word?) between different saddles and padded vs. non-padded shorts too. As everyone says it is all very subjective and personal.. I had been training with non-padded and Ergon SMC (core) for a couple months now. All was well until I did get one of those nasty sores (pimple).. I had hoped that not using padded shorts would simplify my trip in terms of what to take. I am about 4 weeks away from my long distance tour and have decided to go back to the pads for now.. I have found that not all padded shorts are created equal. I had used Assos Mille shorts on my last TransAm and had good luck with them. They have a wider protection area lower down where I did encounter sores and where other padded shorts really didn't help protect. So, I will bring a pair with me since they are very light weight. No way I could buy these on route. Should I have a problem, these shorts will make it much more bearable.. Good luck on your trip!
Sounds like a good plan to me. You can always adapt while you're out there. There are so many potential combinations of different saddles and different bib shorts. It seems like one of those never ending missions. Good luck with your long distance tour.
Interesting, outside of the States waffling has a different meaning, I say "swithering".
Similar experience; hated the Cambium, love the Ergon SMC. I got the gel version but the design is the same. Can’t speak to the gel because I didn’t compare them but the padding is quite firm. The saddle just felt right immediately. I also tried the flyer carved which is a very heavy saddle. It felt good but the cutout pinched the nether regions unless I wore pads so I nixed it.
The C17 isn't for everyone, but they've been great for me, (I own 4.)
Great review! Is the SMC any good for an upright riding/ touring position? I noticed you rode fairly upright during the GDMBR, same as me (85° back angle). I'm also considering the C19 since it's wider and usually recommended when sitting on your seatbones but I don't think that will solve the problem of hardness
For a little extra the SMC gel is good for ironing out the pocket seams on jeans… both are extremely water and mudproof too standup to a lot of abuse for mtb
I use the ergon smc sport gel . Have used it for just over 1600km now and I have to say it is excellent I dont use padded shorts anymore myself thanks to this saddle
On a tour I can wear the same bibs for weeks just use Sudafed cream down below and you are fine. I use a brook C7 leather saddle
B67s with cheap, well-aired Chinese cotton cargo pants, commando-style, so far, so good. For me loose and airy works best.
I ride with a Prologo Dimension, it was good every time until about 50km of riding, after that it started to feel a little unconformtable. After that i bought Ergon SM Pro, it was incredible how much better it was UNTIL about 20km, after that i was i pain, every time! I had measured my seat bones (153mm) so i should be ok and wondered whats wrong.. well i found out that for me, a brand called SQLab recommends 160 or even 170mm wide saddles.
Im rambling about this because it is so insanely induvidual what fits you. Two of my relatives ride a lot with 18€ Super market saddle😂
Great review
For me I prefer a flat saddle, that is rounded on the back, and 125mm wide. I just cannot get on with wide saddles. But that is just me, every arse is different.
As you know women get UTI's much easier than men and for that reason I chose NOT to use padded shorts. I have a saddle similar to the ergon SMC. I bring a spray with me of water and tea tree oil drops and use this to disinfect the inside of my riding shorts and gently my anatomical parts and even the saddle after each ride , so far so good! sometimes just a dab of vaseline helps to prevent any chaffing as a precaution.
Right now i'm three weeks without cycling due to a bacterial infection, just after my last bike ride. I'm better now, but it was extremely painful and cumbersome.
I'm glad you're over the infection. Good luck with any upcoming rides. Cheers 👍
This Ergon saddle has flat part where sitting bones rest thus it doesn't stick into between as curved saddle do. I noticed several years ago my cheap Selle Grappa has flat sitting part and now I know there is a substitute would I need one. Thanks and have a good rides!
That's one of the best aspects of this saddle for me. It is a very flat saddle. Good luck with your future rides. Cheers 👍
Thanks for the information Mat, did you get measured for the saddle?
I see other riders getting their sit bones measured and wonder if this would prevent having to try several different saddles - which seems both expensive and a waste of resources. Thanks, Paul
I measured my seat bones myself by sitting on corrugated cardboard and measuring the impression. It seemed to work well. Cheers 👍
@@matryderreviews and what was the distance between the centers of your bones?
4:30 you talked about padded shorts on the Divide, were you rotating a couple of pairs, so never wore the same pair two days running?
I had two pairs and probably didn't rotate them like I should have. I imagine drying them out each day would make a big difference.
@@matryderreviews that’s what I do
Never found my C-15 comfy either. It flexes too much. I prefer narrower and harder saddles. But the killer these days is over-engineered chamois pads. The basic tound flate style of the 80s was it. Not really padded, designed more to prevent chafing.
What kind of shorts are you using? I use bib shorts
Interesting stuff, my Kona came with the Brooks B17 which I’m trying to break in, I’m only about 180 miles in and it’s still killing me! I did get an Ergon SR for my Raleigh Gravel/cross/commuter and I’m thinking of swapping them over, I think the SR is a little more sporty than the SM? I’ve not ridden many miles on it.
I used far too much of that leather creme, following vids to do it lol, , so after finding a couple of videos saying to make it wet to brake it in I took it under the tap to rinse it. It became much better after that, and I've used it on my zwifting bike this winter where it still hurts after an hour in the static position. Now it seems to strech just behind the nose though....
I sold the B17 which came with my Kona. I didn't want the hassle of keeping it dry when on the trail. I genuinely believe it might be the best saddle for long tours once it's broken in. I'm too impatient.
I think some of Brooks problems is that we are not used to having leather in all sorts of applications anymore. There was another guy on CZcams who had to leave his bike outside the appartement building that said that the Brooks saddle was fine. My last trip I switched to them sports boxer shorts and not using the leather creme it seems that the leather helps wicking the moisture away. When I put the cover on the Brooks now, it is actually more for keeping the leather moist to the degree it is when I get off it. I will still be afraid of whole day torrential rain though. I just saw a gdmbr racer say he had a brooks fail him that way. So the leather will always be developing to either the better or worse, why I will be looking into something like the ergon as well, but the sweat wicking properties is worth a lot 🤔🤔🤔 thank you for the vid 👍 👍👍
@@117000000 People seem to love or hate the B17, doubt I'd ever have bought one but it came with the bike so I'd thought I'd try it. I will persevere this summer and maybe stick it on the indoor bike but I'm leaning towards getting a different saddle. I am tempted to try all the different cheats to speed up the process, what a pain in the ar..
@@matryderreviews A comfortable saddle is so important in enjoying cycling, I'm hoping its short term pain for long time gain, but I do lack the patience too! Its certainly the marmite of saddles!
I really liked the Brooks Cambium C13 Carved (Carbon Rails), but unfortunately I found it to be very squeaky over time, I think its where the rubber seating pad comes into contact with the carbon rails and the rivets, after a while it just got too much for me, I actually took it apart, greased the rivets and tried to resolve it that way but it remained a real annoyance so I dont use it anymore. . . .it was very comfy tho!!!
Or, maybe a recumbent bike?
I must try one at some point.
For me the Ergon is great, the Brooks are not.
For the next rider, maybe the opposite.
Only by chance did I discover the Wabi saddle that came on my Wabi Classics and lightning models, they have them all beat... for me.
Rookie question - the Ergon seems to be promoted as a mountain bike saddle. Does using it on a drop bar bike like a gravel bike compromise its effectiveness/comfort in any way? Thanks
My Kona has drop bars but I have them set high and back, and only ride in the hoods, , so I have quite an upright riding position, not too similar from my MTB. It works for me, but I can't comment on how it works with a more aggressive riding position. I hope that helps.
@@matryderreviews Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I think I'll give one a try. My riding position is similar for 90% of the time
I'll be interested to hear how it goes. Cheers 👍
I think the C17 is best used with some good wool undies and normal canvas pants, the flex in the rubber is all you need.
Maybe. I still.havr the saddle, and may use it again in the future. Probably not on a long trail though.
what is that bottle cage with the strap?
It's a Tailfin medium cage.
Sod Brooks, they weigh a ton, QC is rubbish, & their products cheaply made, but very expensive.
I have a near new B17, that I got for my trail packing bike, (its near new for a reason) quality is poor at best; but if you're into leather, Berthoud is Rolls Royce, I have the Aravais (titanium rails) on my 1977 Flema, & love it.
Recently I bought a very, very expensive Brooks bar tape. It was complete rubbish, I stripped it off the next day & threw it in the bin.
On my race bikes, flat, hill climb, & my commuter, I ride light enough to use carbon rails. My tip top favourite is the Giant Fleet SLR forward, closely followed by the S-Works Toupe.
I will never buy another Brooks product of any kind.
My butt thought new Berthoud saddle comes straight from Medieval torture room. I wish I could get over that stone phase, though....
My Berthould Aspin was incredibly comfortable out of the box despite being hard as a brick. However, within a couple of weeks it began to sag. I tightened the bolt a bit and it was good again for a short while but sagged again. I have had it for more than a year, now, never been wet and it has developed a definite hammock profile that is not comfortable. The leather is starting to strain behind the nose so I dare not tighten it any more. I bought it because the leather was supposed to be stiffer than Brooks and with a flatter profile, which is what I like. I love the polished feel of the leather and comfort on the sit bones, not so much at the front. It has reached the point where I have to decide whether to lace it or sell it on while it still has value. If I could be sure the lacing would work, I wouldn’t hesitate, but I am loathe to butcher such a beautiful saddle that could end in failure.
I have a Bontrager Verse, the standard cheap Trek saddle on my mountain bike and find it very comfortable, but not so sure it would work for touring on my upright Brompton. It is very similar to the Ergon in the video, but with a bigger, full cutout which makes all my discomfort go away. I doubt a Berthould with cutout would work for me as there would almost certainly be too much sag in the remaining leather. I about 75kg, so not enormously heavy for a leather saddle.
The brooks did not work for me. It was the worst saddle I've ever sat on sadly.
One man's 2x4 arse hatchet is another man's armchair....
🤣🤣
Ditch the unneeded saddle. You have clearly justified it's doesn't meet your needs. Besides, if it's not of a higher enough standard for a caterpillar, it's a no-brainer. No hoarding - get rid. Bet you wished you hadn't asked.
🤣🤣🤣
I love my c17, but I also wear padded shorts, if I didn't it would be too stiff.