Neuroscientist Breaks Down What Illusions Tell Us About Consciousness
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- Clip taken from Within Reason #34 with Anil Seth, available in full here: • How Does Consciousness...
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0:00 The Checker Shadow Illusion
1:47 The Dress
6:57 Brainstorm or Green Needle?
9:29 What This Demonstrates
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When the "Dress-Illusion" became popular, some classmates and myself were arguing about the "correct" colouring, until I started playing around with the lighting in a photo-editor and managed to literally switch between both in everybody's view.
Never again did I see such a heated argument die off so quickly😂
OI first saw it as black and blue, then later one the day I saw it has gold and white, then the next day it was again black and blue and then a weird thing happened, it changed to gold and white right in my eyes. Since then I have seen it only as gold and white even though in reality it is black and blue. These were not small changes when I saw it as black and blue it was deep blue and I could not think why some saw it as white.
I see light blue and gold.
It literally switched to black and blue as I was watching this video, before I had only ever seen white and gold
I have always seen it as black and blue, except for one time when it was suddenly white and gold. I got so excited to finally see it differently.
I looked away, and when I looked back it was black and blue again. I tried so hard to switch back to white and gold, but I have never been able to do it.
No idea why that one time was different, so trippy.
I see it as sort of babyblue-ish but no white, however the black looks more like a mixture or dark green black and shiny gold.
What I find to be even more bizarre, is that "brain needle" and "green storm" can also be heard, if expected.
I keep hearing "I will eat your soul!"
And there are also another couple of words you can mix in. I don't remember them right now
Yeah, I heard that, but now I am stuck on brain storm. I heard both the first time through, brain, needle, brain. Couldn't fathom it so played back a few times the last one and got brain storm. Played back from the 1st one and now the second time around I heard brain storm as clearly as i originally heard green needle.
I have subsequently raised a ticket to have the fluid in my brain jar changed.
I don't think that's bizarre at all. The whole experiment relies on your assumption of what you're going to hear. And this only works so well because the audio is so distorted. I can also hear "rain store" which proves that there simply is no solid "m" at the end nor a "b" or "g" at the beginning. What fascinates me is that you can perceive the same sound as an "ee" or an "s" which just points to the amount of distortion.
@@hamburgmusik *_"I don't think that's bizarre at all."_*
Well, it isn't when it is understood.
For the OP though, myself too, it very much is 'bizarre'.
Until you can describe a process completely, there is always a certain level of magic, no?
I used to work in mental health and general nursing. The brain is so fascinating. Having worked in different roles with adults with severe mental health problems, adults with dementia of various forms in a residential setting, as well as a general nurse also listened to young children's questions about the world our different perceptions of the world can be eye opening.
Also I walk my dogs at dusk in summer and the tricks our eyes play on us in low light tell me how we got ghost stories.
I wish you were my psych. nurse, back in the bad old days when I had multiple mental illnesses, and frequented psych. wards. *sigh* I developed more PTSD from how I was treated in hospitals.
One psych. nurse did care, and was interested, and made a world of difference. She would make time to talk to me, and ask questions about my experiences, even when I wasn't her patient. I was treated so much better, and was far more reepected, and supported in my time in a general ward. I am sure some of your patients won't ever forget you!
I have also worked in hospitals, and studied psychology, and raised a child with a brain unlike anyone I have met.
I separated from his father when our child was 2 years old. When he was about 3 years old, I told him the story of the five blind men who were standing around an elephant. The man near the ears described the elephant as big and flappy, the man at the tail said that was totally wrong, and described the elephant as thin hard and swishy, and so on. I explained that Dad, and I, often disagreed because we are only aware of our part of the whole big elephant, which is very different to what each other experiences.
The response was, "You see the big, flappy ears, and Dad just sees the HARD, DIRTY TOENAILS!" 😅 That was an insightful, person appropriate analogy at the time!
Brainstorm - Green Needle is the best example of expectation bias or confirmation bias and should make all of us very very humble admitting that we all are subject to that.
I heard the opposite of what I was expecting every time.
I cannot, for the life of me, see that dress as black and blue, I thought it was a joke the first time around. It's not even close. Until I hold that dress in my hands, it's white and gold
The dress is such a weird example to me, because my brain does no correcting. The colours I percieve are the exact same as if you isolate them in photoshop. A murky yellow brown, and a pale deaaturated blue
Yes. I felt like i was taking crazy pills. I put it into photoshop and showed people they were wrong.
Mine corrects towards white and gold but not enormously. The first time someone showed me the image and asked me what color it was it I said light blue and brown. IIRC there was a survey where 10% of people didn't see any correction, so not unheard of.
I have managed to see it as both blue and black and white and gold though, by messing with the ambient light and screen brightness. it's pretty trippy
What is funny is that as an artist you do train your brain to see colours as what they actually are as opposed to what they appear to be. It isn't that you see the image differently at first glance but you begin to instinctively know that what you are perceiving is wrong and you automatically compensate for that "deficit".
Absolutely love your videos ❤please keep them coming ❤
It's like when you get dumped and listen to the radio and all the songs seem to be about heartache and loss because that's what resonates most with you.
exactly! and what's more is, even the seemingly unrelated youtube videos' comments remind you of your loss 😂
Years ago I read this book (which I've been meaning to revisit) called "Sleights of Mind: What the Neuroscience of Magic Reveals about Our Everyday Deceptions". It was written by two neuroscientists who learned magic tricks and illusions, and interviewed several magicians (including Penn and Teller, I think) and it's basically about how illusionists have found ways to hack our brains, and what this implies about the limitations of our perceptual systems. Good read, highly recommend.
i always love the relation of magic to the philosophy of illusions. perceptual limitations are massively interesting and i feel are important for everyone to learn about in order to solidify the understanding that not everything you perceive is necessarily as it seems to be.
i think it was an old Canadian kids show called Mystery Hunters which first taught me that idea. two lead kids on the show would appear to be convinced often while investigating bigfoot, aliens, etc. every episode, but they actually had a mediator "scientist" guy named "Doubting Dave" appear halfway through the episode who is actually a very funny Canadian comedian, and magician as well (David Acer). the underlying premise of the show as well as the quote said at the end of every episode was, "Things aren't always what they seem" which i loved.
Doubting Dave would always give logical alternative explanations to the popular topics talked about on the show, as well as topics suggested by viewers writing in to the show. i thought it was so wild to learn about even the possibility of inaccuracies in our assumptions (as ridiculous as that sounds), and even in our perception itself. it's weirdly unintuitive when you're a kid, because you have an incredibly limited understanding of what reality is.
i actually remember being a kid and having weird useless assumed thoughts such as, "if i don't run across the yard in less than 5 seconds i'm stupid", which were completely unrelated mundane and almost OCD thoughts. i guess i was kind of testing whether my assumptions would come true/seeing if they were correct, because i often set goals which were much harder than i bargained for, and i would conclude that "if my assumptions were correct, then i am now stupid" for example.
everyone kind of assumes that everything they see and think is exactly how things truly are, be it colourblind people, people fooled by magic, or hell, even perfectly abled people who can't see xrays and every other existent thing invisible to the senses alone.
Super interesting - haven't thought about perceptual illusions in this way before
You can also hear 'Brain needle' and 'Green storm'.
Some thing I find quite interesting is that it’s much easier to hear whatever it is you want to hear in the auditory illusions then it is to see what you want to see with a visual illusion. I find this especially interesting as, I believe by quite a large margin, auditory hallucinations are the most common kind of hallucination among people with psychotic disorders. Particularly I’m talking about schizophrenia, but I would assume that trend would apply to other disorders as well. This certainly makes it seem that, for whatever reason, it’s much easier to I suppose manipulate our auditory perceptions than our visual ones. I don’t think that manipulate is the best word I just don’t know what a better one would be as I don’t know exactly what’s happening here, I think it’s an interesting observation nonetheless.
The auditory illusions are not so much “illusions” compared to the visual ones, when you hear brain storm or green needle, those sounds really are being made, it’s just what you chose to “tune into”, so your brain is not necessarily being tricked or misinformed, whereas you could better argue that in some visual illusions you really are seeing something that is literally not of that nature or even there at all
Henri Bergson’s “Time & Free Will” has a great exposition about this very topic. We must be careful of substituting the cause for the effect.
I was downright angry with the teachers of my kids' school who taught Theory of Knowledge because they refused to even mention perception as part of the curriculum. You learn more about what knowledge and learning are with your video, or similar ones, than in two years of tortuous TOK classes at school.
andres etc: It may be that the teachers were teaching the defined syllabus. Your beef is with those who wrote the syllabus, surely.
That said, it is important to talk about perception and to point out to people that perception (of "Gods", of "healing", of the world around us) is NOT good, credible evidence that "Gods" exist. I hope you agree.
GReeN and BRaiN sound very similar, and I guess the ORM from storm is contained in the DLE from needle, while the NEE is hidden in a braiN(ee)storm kind of way.
More specifically, "TO" and "D" have similarities, "R" and "L" sounds as well. "M" can easily be mistaken as carrying an L like how it sounds in "calm".
I like the "Bart Simspon Bouncing" Audio Illusion - I can hear all option.
Excellent. Thank you.
I hate the way optical illusions are often described as "tricking the brain". Here he correctly scratched the idea of optical illusions showing how are brains efficiently understand the world.
I believe it is very important to understand this, especially as it helps us immensely to also understand biases better. Our brain needs to simplify, and has learned to do this by millions of years of evolution. Our vision does this, our feelings do this, our "rationality" does this.
Yes! It’s very frustrating when people say that our perception of the world is just a completely detached representation when clearly it is very well tuned to allow us to interact with the world, and for that, it has to show us the world, that shadow “illusion” for example has clear evolutionary advantages and purpose
1:02 i did unsee it though, i have found that i can train myself into not seeing illusions, by firstly accepting both the illusion and the straight up information as is, and then choosing one.
I do that, too, with some illusions, but I can't with all of them. They assumed that we all see only the illusion as they do. How ironic! 😅
@@daniellamcgee4251 watch the rest of the video, they where giving their point of view.
I am so happy I found your channel ! I find the topic of illusions particularly interesting, and have recently found great content and ideas related to it ! As you say, these kind of viral illusions are fascinating, because the global reactions of different people end up being very telling of how little we're aware of the actual accuracy of our perceptions. And that can lead to so many implications..!
Your conclusion reminded me of the ''just world'' cognitive bias, as well as the (new age, I think?) theory of the laws of attraction. People project their belief system onto the world, which gives them a biased experience, and then the world often comforts them in their belief system, since they see ''proof'' of what they already chose to believe.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your perspective, and your guest's as well, very interesting food for thought 👌
I remember thinking that I knew someones name and asking their name expecting them to say what I thought I knew They said their name but my expectations made me hear what I was expecting, not what was actually said. I asked again but this time to actually listen and when I heard her real name, it absolutely floored me because the name I heard and what she said were not close at all. Still, my brain heard what it wanted to hear.
Wow. What were the names?
This is a lesson in actually listening to what others are saying.
After hearing the relevant sound as prescribed; on the personal choice, I mentally intoned and prepared to hear 'brain-storm', but I heard 'green needle!'
Same
That’s very strange, I can very easily hear whichever one I choose as well as combinations of them, for example brain needle.
Same, best I can get is brain needle. I wonder if it has anything to do with the audio device you are listening on?
I wish someone would post another picture of that checkerboard where the squares actually are alternately darker and lighter, for comparison. And in the audio example, you can also expect 'green storm' and you'll hear that.
Good old days. We had a long discussion about the dress color in our family
I saw white and gold and then almost immediately as my eyes adjusting to the image I saw and now always see blue black. I think this was all up to someone telling me about it and then showing it to me on their phone. It was odd and I haven’t found people who said they had a similar experience.
I originally saw black and blue and always have with one exception. Once I was scrolling on FB and came to where someone had posted it. Seemingly, something about it entering my vision gradually (it scrolling into the screen) made me see white and gold. I was so convinced I was seeing some version photoshopped by a troll but it suddenly transformed back into black and blue. It was so profound I had to verify that I wasn't looking at an animated GIF. It was the original image but I was never able to replicate this despite hours of trying.
I've also met someone who can see either at will, basically instantly, without even looking away.
Possibly weirder still, I know one person who just sees something completely different than everyone else. I forget which two colors but just way different, like as different as gray and pink or something. Sounds bizarre but I have never known them to lie.
Very interesting thanks.
I find very important to take note that these popular illusions often use source material of poor quality. There is alot more to interpret in such a source. The ambiguity of light color due to overexposure in the dress image, the resonance frequencies in the sound clip making it almost white noise at times. In this case matching the syllables will not explain the illusion really. My guess is that the sound band simply contains enough noise frequencies to justify both interpretations. Essentially another case of the brains ability to hear noises better when you look at the source or know what is being said through subtitles for example (for some people more than others of course)
Brains are incredibly situational, not just in how we perceive but also how we behave (masking). People not acknowledging this in moment to moment interactions has always irked me. It always left me with an image of little flexibility in their empathy.
I still remember a person, after seeing the explanation of the shadow square illusion, straight up refusing to believe that it is the same color value, because to them only the layer of interpretation mattered. Like, that stuck with me.
I think artists live of this kind of illusion. Realism isnt copying what you see but understanding it first, after all.
Well, that was a ramble.
Listened for brain needle on 3rd and heard it. Wild 😮
Can't help but imagine that this may be our problem with quantum physics.
Can you please elaborate?
@@anthonynorman7545 We use quantum physics and can design experiments using it, but we can't agree about why it acts like it does. It doesn't seem to make sense.
@@ck58npj72 I thought the disagreements were about formulas not perceptions?
The dress really intrigued me back in the day, but the audio illusions was more interesting to me as a musician/music theorist. Yanny and Laurel I was able to change which I heard by focusing on different frequencies. I think Laurel was heard when I focused on low frequencies, but the Yanny came out when I focused on high frequencies. That's probably because "Lore" for Laurel is a very open and resonant sound, while "Yah" for Yanny is a brighter sound.
I've not heard the Brainstorm/Green needle one before, but I think there's something similar going on there. Half of the sound effect is a lot of high-end static. There is a voice underneath it, and I think it probably is saying "Brainstorm", but because of all the static creating a bunch of upper-harmonics, it can trick our brain to hearing "Green needle". Again, the long "E"s are a bright sound, which comes out in from the staticy high frequencies. I'm going to explain this more in a sub-comment.
There is something called "Third voice" in audio, and was first discovered by prodigy violinist Paganini. He learned that when he played two notes at a certain interval with a certain sound quality, a third lower voice could be heard underneath it. The math of this is actually quite intriguing. I'll have to be brief with the science of harmonics:
We never hear one pitch of sound. Every time sound is produced, the sound will deflect off of every surface (creating reverb). As it deflects off of surfaces, particle that resonates with that pitch will vibrate also, amplifying the sound (sympathetic vibrations). Sympathetic vibrations are not just effected by the frequency of the pitch sounded, but every multiple of that frequency (harmonics). Thus, when the frequency 100Hz is sounded, you will hear 100Hz, 200Hz, 300Hz, 400Hz, ect. reflecting off of the walls. Without these harmonics, everything would sound the same (a sign wave). But our ears pick out the different volume balances of these harmonics and records it into a memory bank of certain sounds. So our brain trains Harmonic-Balance-1 as violin, Harmonic-Balance-2 as piano, Harmonic-Balance-3 as guitar, ect.. This is also how we can distinguish voices and syllables. Most articulation is in the upper harmonics, while tone is in the lower harmonics. "T", "S", "Sh", "F" are all upper harmonics, while "Ooh", "Uhh", and "Aw" are lower frequencies within our audible pitch reference.
Back to Paganini and the Third Voice. When our ears hear 12,000Hz, and 9,000Hz, it realizes there is something wrong. 12k isn't a harmonic of 9k, so it must be the harmonic of something else (which can be multiplied to get to 12k). 6k won't work, because 6k can't be multiplied to get to 9k. There is a missing fundamental frequency. So the brain makes up 3,000Hz to be the common denominator between 15k and 9k. These really work best in the higher frequency ranges with very pure tone qualities.
This explains the audio illusions of Yanny/Laurel and Brainstorm/Green Needle. Both of these audio samples have a lot of high frequency static with conflicting harmonies. So our brain starts writing in lower frequencies to account for the mathematical problems. After hearing these complex harmonic structures, it searches its sound bank to find what it resembles, -specifically preferring more recognizable sounds. This is the same reason you can sometimes here your name at random times.
In some way the phonemes for "brain" and "green" (and "storm" and "needle") are processed in very similar ways in our brains, which makes it easy for the brain to switch between them with the right nudge of bias/expectation.
I get brain and green but storm and needle seem so different
@@johnfarley7074 Yes they seem different consciously. But maybe in the brain there is some similarity to how they're both subconsciously processed.
I heard " green stool", not brainstorm or green needle. Oh yeah, and thanks for telling us what we will hear beforehand,lol.
For the "Brain Storm"/"Green Needle" one... I didn't hear either. "Gashga" was what I heard. I'm confused how that works.
You can also mix up the words and hear them like greenstorm and brainneedle.
on my second listen I heard "grey needle"
You can even hear "Brain Needle" or "Green Storm" and it switches. Some more examples I've heard complete sentences that sound different based on what you expect
me personally, when trying to hear "brainstorm" i end up hearing ~"brain needle" ... just can't figure out how to hear "storm", it just always feels like it goes sort of up in "nee" directing me to "needle".
i do suspect that:
- if i wasn't expecting anything i'd just hear garbage noise.
- i can switch between brain and green because the sound is kind of distorted from normal human speech, and the "rain" and "reen" are close enough that filtering out the distortion can end up at either (and b/g are short enough and close enough they can be flipped around as well, i was able to end up with "grain needle" and "breen needle" - i was basically able to hear "[b/c/d/g]r[ai/ee]n needle" and didn't test most of the back half of the alphabet)
I was able to prepare to hear brain needle and did. Crazy
You prepped me to listen for brain storm at first, but I heard green needle. I only heard green needle all three times.
When the blue black dress came on , i said the only way to truly know is to do a spectral analysis to find the wavelength and frequency thus finding the true colour of it ...
Brain needle and green storm also work.
My view of the dress switched while watching the video. I started by seeing white and gold and after they said that they see black and blue I brought my eyes up from the bottom to the top of the dress and it switched to black and blue as I did. It doesn't seem to be switching back either.
It appears to me that the more uncertainty there is, the nore easy you expactations shape your experiences. It might be, that there are some things which are pretty robust depending on certain properties, would be quite interesting to know.
It seems quite counterintuitive, that there was less correlation between our experience X and real world objects or happenings Y than between X and our expectation of Y for every Y.
It's highly fascinating though.
I have to look more into this than I already have.
It's a processed or even EI voice coming from a very small speaker, so the the S in Storm sounds like EE in needle. Still a great illusion!
You can also think brain needle or green storm and hear those, too.
If you listen for 'brain-needle' or 'green-storm' you can hear it. You just have to expect to hear 2 different voices as well.
I could only hear brain needle-couldn’t hear green storm at all.
I can see the dress in both ways depending on the day. Today I see white and gold. But when I saw this thumbnail yesterday, I saw black and blue.
"Lucid perception reminds you always, always, always that everything is within! There is no object out there that you perceive.
No, no. It's a formation in consciousness, an ousia that you perceive within--this is what it is!"--Althar Intense--Borderland
Ousia! New word! Thankyou!
Wrong 🤓☝️
@@pseudo148 Not even the slightest bit wrong.
@@bmerlin376 I’m just messing around
I rewound the green needle bit about a dozen times. o.o ..trippy
I think I broke my brain, At first, I was hearing "brainstorm," but then I managed to switch to "green needle." And it kept going back and forth. But then, when I tried not to think about either of those words or even tried to focus on something completely different, it's like my brain defaulted to "green needle." And now, no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to hear "brainstorm" anymore. It's like "green needle" has taken over!"
I still cannot fathom how anyone sees the dress as black and blue without manually adjusting the white balance down. The colors look so clearly white and gold to my eyes lol. It still baffles me.
Does anyone know why changing my focus on the dress image allows me to see it in different colours? It would be interesting to survey people who see it in each and both ways to see if there are commonalities elsewhere. It'd be wild if you could accurately diagnose or predict things about health or psychology based on how you perceive illusions.
Your brain takes context clues to make sense of the image. By changing your focus you are changing the information your brain is receiving, so with that new or different information it comes to a different conclusion about what it is looking at.
You can also hear brain needle and green storm
Ive always seen the dress as gold and white with a crappyy blue overtone to it
I see a black and blue dress and hear 'green needle'. Upon trying to make the auditory hallucination say 'brainstorm' I hear 'brain-needle'.
It is somewhat amusing to listen to a neuroscientist explain what Aquinas (and other Aristotelians) more or less assumed of cognitive function (and its malfunctions or simple quirks). Chiefly, that our cognitive faculties exist (or developed as they have) for their acts (perceiving, interpreting, objectifying, and rationalising) and these acts exist for their objects (the 'thingness' or rather the 'aboutness' of the perceived < x >). Thus the quirky - indeed impish - elusiveness of the likeness, which is not itself the object of thought, but rather the means by which < y > is aware of < x > even if perceptually warped e.g. by illusion as < z > ; which sort of leaves us to posit that this question - of consciousness (perception of awareness, both of internal working and external stimuli) - lies .. more or less .. in the functioning of the actual agent, the judge/ arbiter of colour, shade, transition, and image etc (phantasmagoria), and any positive or potential degree of intellect that is stimulated to make .. a judgement based on them (an operative, if limited, intellectus agens, whereby they are made actually intelligible to < y > - even if mistaken).
There is a concrete 're' = reality (thing or thingness) external to the perceiving agent, and, briefly, the judgement made (vis cognitiva) about it is an imaginative construct (what the 'it' is about or its aboutness). Aquinas' phantasm (and phantasm.2 our reading of it), however, leaves a lot to be desired - in trying to knit together a coherent (let alone a cogent) concept of consciousness, awareness, and perception - I look forward to further (and more compelling) results from brain probing and mind exploring studies.
Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek.
God bless. ;o)
And, P.S. a big thank you for all these little treasures.
This is all largely correct. We don't really live in "reality" but rather we are part of a personal symbolic hierarchical cognitive model correlated with patterns in sensory nerve impulses being calculated by the brain of a hominid primate.
Human experiences/perceptions/qualia are the symbols the cognitive model is constructed from, and their nature is largely a function of what has been most evolutionarily efficient and advantageous to our countless ancestors, as are all aspects of what we are, including our "conscious" responses to said experiences with which we self-identify at the base level.
also try "Green Storm" and "Brain Needle". wild
You can also hear Green Storm, if you expect it.
I heard Brain Storm and Green Needle but after that all I could hear was Brain Storm. Green Needle never came back for me.
Strangely, with the brainstorm-green needle thing, I could only ever hear brain needle.
The dancer on a turntable was very confusing. She kept changing direction in my mind.
If you're looking at relationships between shades, you'll interpet the colours, and those interpretations are wrong, albeit equally valid for the purpose of contrast. If you see the qualia for what it is, the true colour will appear whose appearance doesn't depend on a relationship. I'd bet people with perfect pitch are hearing the music as it is, as oppose to hearing the relationships between notes which would explain how such people can remember the quality of certain frequencies. When you listen to two different notes at the same time, it's as though a third note is created which does not exist, but is nonetheless heard as the relationship between the two notes.
Much like with impossible color combinations. An impossible combination of, for instance, blue and green (not cyan) creates the experience of an entirely new color: an impossible blue-green, or a "blun" [blu(prefix)-e(suffix)/gree(prefix)-n(suffix)] as I like to call it. Impossible color combinations allow for literally trillions of more unique and distinct color experiences. If someone with, for example, perfect pitch hears sound like I can see impossible colors it's amazing.
@@ooqui i suppose there are vastly more relationships between colours and frequencies than there are colours are frequencies themselves, which the mind can take as objects just as it can the initial stimulus.
You can hear all 4 combinations. Brain storm, green needle, brain needle and green storm.
I discovered something different about me and most of my friends. When I "picture" something in my mind's "eye" I don't actually generate a mental image. I don't see my grandmother when I think of her.
Hmmm I try and picture my grandparents and it's almost like my mind is sketching a rough image of them. It's not clear but I think it kinda looks like them.
It's called aphantasia
Did you look up Aphantasia? What did you think
I think "aphantasia" is funny, because I've never met anyone who didn't have it. All I get is people going "oh, I have this thing called aphantasia, I'm quirky like that"
Brain and green are not that different from each other. Storm and needle don’t sound like each other normally but when you compress the audio and add static on it they aren’t so dissimilar.
I was able to see both at the time, just now it’s blue, that darn dress.
It's very similar to zebras if you assume that the black is the stripes and white is fur then most people see the dress as white and gold, but if you assume the stripes are white and the fur is black, the dress could appear as dark and blue. I always saw it as white and gold 😂 but i tried to refocus on the dress with that analogy in mind and i almost got it
Instead of "brainstorm" and "green needle" you can also hear "brain needle" if you listen for it. :D
I've been watching documentaries with religious people: and their ability to not suffer from the doubt that something might go wrong (because if it does, god wanted it that way, and then god will also always help you, if you behaved as he wills) is honestly incredibly admirable. I think many of us long to be less affected by the doubt of the future. I feel like we can make a connection to the perception of reality mentioned in this video.
Apparently we can shape our expectations of what reality is. I feel like "self manipulation" is a term that is fitting for this kind of shaping of what we want to find. But "manipulation" sounds dangerous. I'm very curious what you guys think about that.
Is it desirable to manipulate one's self in any way, if it brings a more peaceful life? Is manipulation the wrong word?
Having an optimistic world view seems to be good intuitively.
I think it probably depends on what you value? If you value a sense of security (even if a false one) more than being honest with yourself you might be a lot more likely to take things on faith.
I once had a grown man tell me he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the creation events happened as written in the christian bible. He insisted that he knew it to be true, not that he had faith or believed it, that he knew it. I think he values feeling secure more than being honest, or who knows maybe there are other pressures that form his thinking other than security.
For me being dishonest with yourself seems not very helpful but I guess people are different and thats okay. I think religion can (and sometimes does) result in some very harmful behavior and/or destructive thinking patterns but this is youtube comment section so I'll stop riiiiight here.
It sounds like the opposite of mindfulness. I’m not a philosopher nor a Buddhist. But it seems to me that there are some things we oughtn’t misperceive. For example, the suffering of others. Yes, it makes us unhappy but it’s there. I don’t think we can love others without this crucial but.
@@begshallots Very well said
@@ericashmead4049 Yeah that blind faith in things you can't know to be fact is what I find off-putting with religion.
But I think there is something valuable and worthwhile to feel at peace when things out of your control give you a hard time. Say you're a farmer and have a really bad harvest, bc of bad weather. How do you stay at peace in the face of existential dread? Blind faith in god is delusional, but it works. And fear won't change the outcome of you starving.
@@TheM4stermindyou can also live at peace without lying to yourself. The idea that I will disappear into oblivion when I die makes me feel an enormous relief. It seemed impossible at first to see it as something good because I was taught that "what we all want" is eternal bliss, but the more I thought about it the more I realised that such "bliss" for me would end up being indistinguishable from nothingness: no pain, no sorrow, no worries, no desires, no boredom, no struggles, no masters, no slaves, no hierarchies, no oppression, no expectations. I'm more than fine with that. And even if I wanted to force myself into believing that there's a god, I would be unable to not see it as a cruel, despicable being who created a very imperfect world full of suffering for his own glory, entertainment or whatever. So I've also learnt to find more optimistic the idea that there's no one out there and it was all chance, than the idea that we are the failed experiment of a narcissist who either isn't omnipotent or it's a sadist.
I always thought the dress was 2 separate images. Ive seen both in the same image, like side by side.
"There is no peace except in perfect forgetfulness of self. We must make up our mind to forget even our spiritual interests and think only of God’s glory."
-St. Claude de la Colombière
from the book The Spiritual Direction of St. Claude de la Colombière
"A word or a smile is often enough to put fresh life in a despondent soul."
-St. Therese of Lisieux
I can see all 4 colours of the dress at the same time! 😃 Which is very exciting to me because, due to various eye problems, I am not able to see Magic Eye 3D images, or 3D films/ T.V.
Edit: I have just thought that maybe I can see both because I have practice in seeing in more ways than one visual perception simultaneously:
1.When I had Borderline Personality Disorder, I used to have quasi hallucinations under extreme stress. So, I would hallucinate but also be aware of, and see 'reality' at the same time. It was like a two films running on a single film reel. I could see a room filling up with blood, but I could also see the room without blood, simultaneously. Even though the hallucination was more vivid and real to me, I always knew that others could only see the room, not the blood.
2. I have many forms of synaesthesia. I can see both the set colour of numbers and letters, but also the referenced colour, and the synaesthetic colours, simultaneously. The word 'pink' might be typed in black letters, and I can see that. I will also see the colour pink in my 'minds eye', and also the letter:
'p' is shiny red, '
'i' is clear with a hint of white, yellow and light blue (influenced by colours around it)
'n' is matt grey
'k' is dark golden brown, with depth and texture.
So, I guess by brain is wired to perceive images simultaneously, (although one is more dominant than the other depending on my focus),even if my eye sight is stuffed!
So is not being able to see 3D because you have no telescopic vision ?
What do you mean "had" BPD? You recovered? I have little faith in most therapy in general and either way BPD is known to be resistant to it but it can certainly help.
That said, in rare cases certain people do seem to just eventually "grow out" of BPD almost magically with enough age and experience, even without doing any extensive therapy or anything like that.
I appear to be one of those people and I know someone else who it seems to be beginning to happen to.
For some reason I only ever hear green needle…
Hmmm, that's interesting, in the thumbnail of this video I see a white & yellowish gold dress, but in the video the same image as you are talking is undoubtedly blue and gold...
I’ve never been able to hear “needle”. It always sounds like “storm” no matter if I try to hear needle. Maybe my ears don’t hear certain frequencies very well?
I expected Brain storm and hurd green needle
And then i tried not to expect anything closing my eyes i hurd green needle
So annoying that, when I first heard it i could switch between brainstorm and green needle, but I only hear brainstorm now and can't for the life of me change that. The dress thing was always white with blue light or just light blue and gold and that looks to match what the color picker says as well.
As soon as news came out about the dress, I only saw blue and black. After many attempts to see white and gold, I did it. But just a couple of times. Since then, over the years, when I would accidently see the dress, I would only see blue and black. So I never saw white and gold again, only those two times in the period I was really trying to see the different colors. But... I believe I couldn't sustain the white and gold. If I remember this correctly, I think the white and gold would "change" to blue and black after a while.
But the one with laurel and yanny, I always hear the wrong one.
Brain storm and brim niddle? It worked just like Alex described. Impressive. But... when I told my brain to switch what I wanted to hear right before I heard the sound, I heard: "brim storm"! Try it for yourself.
OH, I just tested again telling my brain that I wanted to here "brain niddle"... IT WORKED TO! I HEARD BRAIN NIDDLE! 😂
Edit: oh, it's "green niddle"? I only heard "green" when the scientist first said it. When Alex said it, I heard "grim".
Edit 2: I just researched about laurel and yanny. First I heard the original sound. Several times! I can only hear laurel. Then I looked up what the original sound should be. And it should be laurel. Now, I don't exactly remember which one I heard at the time, I just remember the frustration of hearing the wrong one. So if I indeed heard "yanny" at the time when the sound made the news, now I hear the sound correctly. I can't hear yanny anymore. If my memories are correct, that's very strange, because it's not about the person, but the circunstances of you brain (I assume) within an specific time.
for the dress i had that exact same experience. I remember i just wanted so bad to be able to see gold and white and i did but it was hard to sustain as you said. For the audio things im usually able to hear both.
Okay.....with the dress I "only" saw blue black....with this new one I hear "only" green needle....even if I try to focus on the other word.😮
8:34 i've personally theorized that these -- green needle, brainstorm -- words which we can interchangably hear MUST have to do with a slight similarity in the frequency of soundwaves.
if they didn't sound even remotely similar in some way, there's no other possible logical explanation why we would hear them to be so similar. my theory is that there is a likely measurable consistency between the two words enough to trigger your pattern recognition even if they're completely not correlated.
i'm sure that if we can rip vocal frequencies from music, there must be some way to isolate the common frequencies of both words audibly spoken which will be the root cause for the pattern recognition while the rest of the unisolated audio is unimportant (non-recognizable) frequency.
it's also interesting to think that you are required to know the English words green needle and brainstorm before using your pattern recognition to look for either or, and how if you knew other languages, that you will likely hear phrases in those languages as well which are similar enough in frequency to "recognize" it as something else.
It's has to do with how the frequencies resonate. There are two auditory inputs going on - 'brain storm' and 'green needle'. Brain storm can be heard in the lower register and green needle is heard above. Our sensory inputs are sort of entangled and a dominant resonance is agreed upon. This is the equivalent of two people in a room competing for dialogue. One has a higher voice and one has a lower voice. Our brain decides 'we will hear one of these', as if it were seperating the auditory phenomenon of predators in an environment. It only listens to one of them at a time.
@@matthewdown5378 it's weird because that "higher register" "lower register" thing makes a lot more sense for Yanny and Laurel where i can ONLY hear one until i pitch the audio to hear the other.
with green needle, i swear they're roughly similar frequencies regardless of pitch. i believe this because i can easily switch between Green Needle and Brainstorm in my head, but absolutely can not for the life of me switch between Yanny and Laurel.
for reference, i distinctly hear "Laurel", and in fact i believe that's what the guy is really saying. my dad who is nearly 60 heard Yanny. he also saw the white and gold dress. an inaccurate perceiver he is xD.
though, he can indeed switch between Green Needle and Brainstorm, though he's very weird about it, almost like he was scared or confused how what he "listened for" changed the outcome of what he heard, saying that he "might have heard Brain Needle or Green Storm".
to be fair to him, i think he just has a bit too much tinnitus (high frequency sound, as well as hearing loss of that same frequency), as well as probably just struggles understanding the cause and effect of why this happens, such as our visual and audible pattern recognition, and how 2 entirely different sounding sentences can share similar sounding frequencies.
Alex, what are your thoughts on NDE?
Just noticed something odd with the dress... I see it as white and gold when I look straight at it, but when seeing it through peripherals it looks blue black.
The whole argument about that dress baffled me, since I didn't how get how anybody could see it as either blue/black or white/gold . After a while I was thinking I was either going nuts, or vast parts of the human race are in desperate need of an eye doctor.
So I used the Gimp color picker tool on that picture, and this is what I get:
The part at the shoulder: R 42.7%, B 37,6%, G 34.1% (Hex #6d6057), i.e. _wenge._
The other color: R 50.6%, B 54.9%, G 72.5% (Hex #818cb9), i.e. _cool grey._
So there you have it. I might still be going nuts, though.
You are not alone. I always have seen light blue and gold.
Purely coincidental, no doubt, but in the off-chance you did read my “hot philosophical take” - I apologize for subconsciously using “projection” exactly (more or less) as you used it here.
What's the deal with the transforming line in the middle of the frame behind Anil Seth? Is that another illusion?
i saw white and gold in the thumbnail... as soon as the dress came on screen in the video it went blue and black... i thought you tricked me but i have VidIQ so the thumbnail is beside the video as it plays and suddenly my perception changed as well the thumbnails is now black and blue as well!
i realise after i commented that you spoke about people rarely able to switch... so to confirm i can't seem to switch on purpose... just randomly happened.
however it may or may not be important to note that i have irlen syndrome a sensory issue, that effects me seeing light. usually normal lights are too bright and causes headaches simply put. just thought id share :)
If you are a young person and fascinated by these topics:
I can recommend studying cognitive science.
You will be able to:
Read any neuroscience paper.
Read any psychology paper.
Read any linguistics paper.
Read any computer science paper.
Read any philosophy book/paper.
And then look at this topic from all of these angles.
You will not have a clear career path, but you will be able to work in any of these field and at many start ups and fields that haven't been established yet.
Or research embodied cognition and get no funding!
@@pseudo148 embodied cognition is sooo underrepresented
@@benjif2424 I know! And if it’s underrepresented in psychology it’s even more underrepresented in general discourse, It would be so awesome to see Alex interview someone like Tony Chemero or maybe more devout embodied cognitivists
OMFG! on my third try I was like lemme mix it up and go for "Brain Needle" and I actually heard that HAHAHAHA!
In case anyone is wondering, "brain storm" and "green needle" are way closer than English spelling suggest. Both start with a plosive, then a rhotic, then a front open vowel and a nasal (/grin/ vs /brein/), and both end with a dental plosive and a dark continuant, (/dul/ vs /torm/), which are all very easy to confuse when audio quality is poor. The only surprise is that sibilant /s/ and the vowel/i/ can be confused. Both are high pitch sounds though, and the crackle of the audio makes it easy to hear a hiss in a vowel, I think.
People often assume that the written language represents roughly the spoken language, but especially in English this is far from always true (written English, in fact, gives first grade native speaking students an even harder time than French does, by a huge factor, being one of the most difficult alphabet based writing systems in the world).
I was looking for a comment explaining this, I had to keep watching that clip over and over again because I couldn't believe what was happening. thank you for the explanation!
I only hear brain storm. Even when thinking green needle, still brain storm.
I ONLY heard brainstorm no matter how many times I tried to hear green needle.
Just how Ben ten wanted it 🙌👍
I was just able to hear "green needle"
So in the brainstorm/green needle thing what did people hear when they weren't primed with either word?
In my opinion some kind of priming or bias is always present if a someone is interpreting it. Like for instance just knowing English, a person who doesn't speak English probably wouldn't hear either of these phrases, maybe they would even pick out different words. In a way language itself is kind of enabled by priming. Like we only know words because we have prior experience. My guess is that they would hear whatever phrase happens to be more plausible to the subconscious of the person listening. I wonder if what people say it sounds like without priming could indicate something like the accent or region of the person.
@@adrienanderson7439 I can only hear green needle (I'm not a native English speaker btw)
The voice is scary
i mean just look at an individual raised poor vs an individual raised with monetary privilege, some people appreciate life and try to be humble for the trials and tribulations they overcome and others mainly focus on themselves and selfishly live life for themselves and everyone around them are secondary, merely tools to be used for their benefit and their gains.
With the blue/black white/gold dress, it has nothing to do with the lighting in the room it's viewed or the light balance on the camera when the picture was taken. I have a poster of the picture, and i can cover up all but a small square of it and of two people, one will say the part they see is gold and another person will say it's black, and when moved to show another portion of the dress the first will say it's blue while the other will vehemently argue that it's clearly white.
Btw, the dress IS clearly white and gold, you silly buggers!
I always hear Green Needle or Brain Needle. There was nothing close to 'Storm'
That dress thing is especially baffling to me because I see blue and gold.
Thanks! I'm not alone.😊
The dress on the thumbnail is blue on my phone but white on my computer.
The brainstorm - green needle, sounds like something ventriloquists would do. Certain letters would be more difficult to say without moving your lips, you substitute something else people will still know what you're saying. You're expecting to hear something so that's what you hear. Maybe I'm wrong. Any ventriloquist out there?
What's the title of the book!!!!!!?????