Another thing I've been taught to avoid is moving all four voices in the same direction, even if all the melodic intervals are different. The suggested "fix" is to see if two of the parts, usually alto and tenor, can swap notes, so that those two move counter to the other two parts.
Good point! I pretty rarely found myself in situations where I could do that even if I wanted to without breaking at least one other rule, but yeah, should definitely be avoided.
Thank you for some useful composing rules on part writing 12Tone. Did you ever end up doing a clip on 2nd inversion part writing? I am having trouble finding one. I am interested in inversions on the guitar. I would love to see a clip on Inversions, how to spot them, spell them and why they exist. 2nd inversions with a 9 and no 5th have been fun to play around with lately but I still feel I am missing a reason why inversions have to spelt the way they are rather than always looking at the bass note as the chord tonic.
The different hands was a surprise until I remembered you talking about having another person draw the story when you started. This must be an old clip.
Nice video, but on the topic of doubling I would love to hear you elaborate on how it works on different inversions. The first inversion confuses me, but some visual and musical examples of the concept brought into a musical context would probalbly clear it up.
+Jonas Bjordal For sure! First inversion doubling is by far the most confusing, but honestly once you get past basic theory class stuff, doubling rules stop being that relevant anyway, so while they're good to know they're not really crucial to making good music. Basically, being in first inversion weaken's a chord's harmonic impact. It sounds less like itself than it would in root position. That description's a little handwave-y, but it's a useful way to think about it. For that reason, doubling the root becomes less valuable: You don't have as strong a harmonic function, so emphasizing harmonically important chord tones is less meaningful. Once that happens, what you want to do is double a note that is harmonically relevant to the KEY. The three strongest notes in the key are the 1, the 4, and the 5, so you get the most mileage out of doubling one of those. Basically, if your chord is the I, the IV, or the V, double the root. If it's the II, the III, or the VI, double the bass note, which is the third degree of the chord. If it's the VII, double the fifth degree. (Although in major you may get better voiceleading out of doubling the third degree instead. It depends what's coming next.) How you handle it for second inversion is intrinsically tied to the functions of second inversion chords in four-part writing, so I can't really get into that without delving into a whole swath of other concepts (Which I will cover at some point!) but the doubling isn't that hard there. And third inversion, of course, probably doesn't have doubling since you're using seventh chords. I'll try to fit some examples of this stuff in next time we do a video on Four-Part. Thanks for asking!
+12tone Thanks! In my arranging classes my teacher perhaps said the same thing, but simplified it to that one should avoid doubling the third in first inversions due to imbalance in the chord. Looking forward to that video :)
Doubling depends on chord quality and voice leading. Yes, doubling the third in a first inversion is weaker than the root, but the quality change could be what you want. I would avoid doubling the fifth as the chord will sound very weak and unstable. The fifth is doubled in 6/4 chords as they are often interpreted as roots for another chord.
I always learned that in 1rst inversions doubling either the root or the third of the chord was okay. Also you can get ash with doubling the leading tone if it falls in one of the middle voice hehehe.
Yeah, it depends on how strict you want to be and what era you're working from. I've had teachers insist on very strict interpretations, and I've had others who said to just double whatever makes the lines work best. Doubling the leading tone, though, is pretty frowned upon because it has to resolve upward and if you have two leading tones then you wind up with parallel octaves, and that's no good. I guess you could subvert one of them in a middle voice if you really wanted to...
2:49 "If the Alto is on A here, the Soprano can't go down to G in the next voicing, even though the Alto has moved down further." Why can't the Soprano go down further? The harmony is still SATB, from top to bottom, so why does it matter? I just discovered your channel, and I respect you very much, but I'd like to have this question answered. Either way, thank you :)
Basically just because it's against the rules. I think the idea is that doing so makes it sound like the Alto moved to the G and another voice popped up out of nowhere in the middle, but really, it's mostly just that the rules say you can't. If you're not doing a strict four-part writing thing for school or for some artistic purity thing, you can totally do that, but by strict definitions, it's not allowed.
Thank you. I've been trying to write my own arrangements for songs I'm writing and even though I have the initial idea, adding more depth to it has always been a struggle for me
Perceptual independence. If the soprano goes lower than the alto was, the listener has a harder time assigning the note to the soprano voice, as opposed to thinking the voices merged or something. You can see on the page that it has to be the soprano note, but the page provides a lot of abstraction and preprocessing that a listener's brain doesn't have instant access to. And of course, you don't *have* to offer your listener easily distinguished, separate melodic voices. But if that's your goal, the limitations of human auditory and cognitive processing mean you have to do more or less what the traditional voice-leading rules say. David Huron has done a bunch of cool research demonstrating this.
Did the Beatles or Heartbreakers sneakily replace you? You are writing with your right hand? But I have watched hours of you writing with your left. I don't understand. Music theory sure is complicated. Preparing to dual against the Man in Black or Inigo Montoya?
couple of questions about breaking rules, then Aren't there very old styles of music that harmonize similar voices by crossing them? I hope that's covered somewhere And how much use do you find in doubling an unstable note to create a less comfortable resolution? Probably not too many ways to make that work.
There's definitely plenty of styles that use crossing voices freely, yeah! I'm not a historian so I'm not entirely sure which style you're referring to, but a lot of these rules are reactions to things people were doing, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if it predated this. As for doubling... I haven't really found much of an effect, to be perfectly honest. Maybe it's my modern, vertical-harmony-trained ears, but it doesn't seem to make a huge amount of difference as far as I can tell, as long as each of the notes is in there somewhere. Doubling the third _instead of_ including the fifth can definitely add some instability, though.
Those are not actual rules. In the real world of music, voices cross, large spacings occur, direct 5ths and Octaves happen, etc. and this is including the mastery of Bach. Just look at is chorales and you'll quickly see that none of these "rules" are rules. They're just limitations placed on students to make it easier for them, because the classroom is designed to create exercises for training purposes and not the free realm of musical creativity.
I dont get whats this all about, Im not into classical music and that may not help, but i dont get whats the point on this method than just righting 4 melodies that work together at the same time. I just dont see where do you come from to understand why there are rules in here and so on
Mostly I like it as a method of learning how to voice-lead. It's a really valuable skill, and even if four-part writing's rules are a bit overboard, it really makes you think about how your notes are moving between chords, and that's super helpful to have.
so, its like a way to right music with 4 "voices" without playing chords explecitely but playing melodies that create those chords? then you should first think what harmony do you want and then start wrighting?
You're talking about the counterpoint within the four - part texture. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. What comes first; the Melody or the harmony? Actually, they both work in conjunction.
I’ve been having such a hard time in theory I and then I passed which I have no idea how but anyways- now I’m in theory II and I’m lost again.... we’re studying V & V7 right now and I’m like what I’m very musically inclined but studying the actual fundamentals like how.....ITS SO FREAKING HARD!!! 😩😩😩
Don't quite understand the bit at 2:47 with the crossing, is it because soprano is moving below where the alto was, even if the alto moves with it? Also, why wouldn't you double the leading tone in a dominant chord? Doubling the leading tone in a dominant V that resolves into a I is the first thing I thought of when you brought up doubling, and it sounds good when I play it, so what's the deal?
On the crossing bit, yeah, that's basically it. You're not supposed to move voices past where other voices just were. As for doubling leading tones, it's to avoid parallelism. The leading tone has to resolve, so if you double it then both voices have to move up a half step, giving you parallel octaves.
I had the very same question about crossing in my mind when I watched this. I understand your explanation, it's a simply rule. But now I wonder why this is a rule at all. That sounded like a perfectly good chord change in 2:54, so why is there a rule not to permit it?
![How To Arrange Chords into BEAUTIFUL 4-PART HARMONIES [Music Theory - Voice Leading]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UkatcvIuF4U/mqdefault.jpg)
This was essentially the first few months of my harmony 1 class in a 5 minute video
there u go
Same 🗿
Another thing I've been taught to avoid is moving all four voices in the same direction, even if all the melodic intervals are different. The suggested "fix" is to see if two of the parts, usually alto and tenor, can swap notes, so that those two move counter to the other two parts.
Good point! I pretty rarely found myself in situations where I could do that even if I wanted to without breaking at least one other rule, but yeah, should definitely be avoided.
Four part writing was briefly replaced by three part writing when the NES’s soundcard could only produce three pitches simultaneously.
Hah, yeah. Stuff like the Pallet Town theme actually almost follows counterpoint rules.
Im so glad i found you! great job.
+MisterTaberlasche Thanks! We're glad you found us too!
finally a method that`s fun to watch/listen to. Thanku
+Ralf Pouw Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for some useful composing rules on part writing 12Tone. Did you ever end up doing a clip on 2nd inversion part writing? I am having trouble finding one. I am interested in inversions on the guitar. I would love to see a clip on Inversions, how to spot them, spell them and why they exist. 2nd inversions with a 9 and no 5th have been fun to play around with lately but I still feel I am missing a reason why inversions have to spelt the way they are rather than always looking at the bass note as the chord tonic.
The different hands was a surprise until I remembered you talking about having another person draw the story when you started. This must be an old clip.
Thank you kindly🤍
Nice video, but on the topic of doubling I would love to hear you elaborate on how it works on different inversions. The first inversion confuses me, but some visual and musical examples of the concept brought into a musical context would probalbly clear it up.
+Jonas Bjordal For sure! First inversion doubling is by far the most confusing, but honestly once you get past basic theory class stuff, doubling rules stop being that relevant anyway, so while they're good to know they're not really crucial to making good music.
Basically, being in first inversion weaken's a chord's harmonic impact. It sounds less like itself than it would in root position. That description's a little handwave-y, but it's a useful way to think about it. For that reason, doubling the root becomes less valuable: You don't have as strong a harmonic function, so emphasizing harmonically important chord tones is less meaningful. Once that happens, what you want to do is double a note that is harmonically relevant to the KEY. The three strongest notes in the key are the 1, the 4, and the 5, so you get the most mileage out of doubling one of those.
Basically, if your chord is the I, the IV, or the V, double the root. If it's the II, the III, or the VI, double the bass note, which is the third degree of the chord. If it's the VII, double the fifth degree. (Although in major you may get better voiceleading out of doubling the third degree instead. It depends what's coming next.)
How you handle it for second inversion is intrinsically tied to the functions of second inversion chords in four-part writing, so I can't really get into that without delving into a whole swath of other concepts (Which I will cover at some point!) but the doubling isn't that hard there. And third inversion, of course, probably doesn't have doubling since you're using seventh chords.
I'll try to fit some examples of this stuff in next time we do a video on Four-Part. Thanks for asking!
+12tone Thanks!
In my arranging classes my teacher perhaps said the same thing, but simplified it to that one should avoid doubling the third in first inversions due to imbalance in the chord. Looking forward to that video :)
Doubling depends on chord quality and voice leading. Yes, doubling the third in a first inversion is weaker than the root, but the quality change could be what you want. I would avoid doubling the fifth as the chord will sound very weak and unstable. The fifth is doubled in 6/4 chords as they are often interpreted as roots for another chord.
Perfect
Wow. I love this channel. Glad I stumbled across it!
Thanks, so are we!
Thanks
Really nice and instructive, Thanks!
It is vert useful and it is easy to understand.
I always learned that in 1rst inversions doubling either the root or the third of the chord was okay. Also you can get ash with doubling the leading tone if it falls in one of the middle voice hehehe.
Yeah, it depends on how strict you want to be and what era you're working from. I've had teachers insist on very strict interpretations, and I've had others who said to just double whatever makes the lines work best. Doubling the leading tone, though, is pretty frowned upon because it has to resolve upward and if you have two leading tones then you wind up with parallel octaves, and that's no good. I guess you could subvert one of them in a middle voice if you really wanted to...
@@12tone what if you where to frustrate only one of the leading tones in that case?
I always struggle with this . Gotta catch em all
2:49 "If the Alto is on A here, the Soprano can't go down to G in the next voicing, even though the Alto has moved down further." Why can't the Soprano go down further? The harmony is still SATB, from top to bottom, so why does it matter? I just discovered your channel, and I respect you very much, but I'd like to have this question answered. Either way, thank you :)
Basically just because it's against the rules. I think the idea is that doing so makes it sound like the Alto moved to the G and another voice popped up out of nowhere in the middle, but really, it's mostly just that the rules say you can't. If you're not doing a strict four-part writing thing for school or for some artistic purity thing, you can totally do that, but by strict definitions, it's not allowed.
Thank you. I've been trying to write my own arrangements for songs I'm writing and even though I have the initial idea, adding more depth to it has always been a struggle for me
One more question, how about if you're writing for two or three different voices, would that rule still apply?
Nick The Okayish if you aren't submitting your work for marking by a music theory examiner, no rules apply.
Perceptual independence. If the soprano goes lower than the alto was, the listener has a harder time assigning the note to the soprano voice, as opposed to thinking the voices merged or something. You can see on the page that it has to be the soprano note, but the page provides a lot of abstraction and preprocessing that a listener's brain doesn't have instant access to.
And of course, you don't *have* to offer your listener easily distinguished, separate melodic voices. But if that's your goal, the limitations of human auditory and cognitive processing mean you have to do more or less what the traditional voice-leading rules say. David Huron has done a bunch of cool research demonstrating this.
many many thanks..very helpful :)
Did the Beatles or Heartbreakers sneakily replace you?
You are writing with your right hand? But I have watched hours of you writing with your left.
I don't understand. Music theory sure is complicated.
Preparing to dual against the Man in Black or Inigo Montoya?
ane pdf for these rules?
couple of questions about breaking rules, then
Aren't there very old styles of music that harmonize similar voices by crossing them? I hope that's covered somewhere
And how much use do you find in doubling an unstable note to create a less comfortable resolution? Probably not too many ways to make that work.
There's definitely plenty of styles that use crossing voices freely, yeah! I'm not a historian so I'm not entirely sure which style you're referring to, but a lot of these rules are reactions to things people were doing, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if it predated this.
As for doubling... I haven't really found much of an effect, to be perfectly honest. Maybe it's my modern, vertical-harmony-trained ears, but it doesn't seem to make a huge amount of difference as far as I can tell, as long as each of the notes is in there somewhere. Doubling the third _instead of_ including the fifth can definitely add some instability, though.
Those are not actual rules. In the real world of music, voices cross, large spacings occur, direct 5ths and Octaves happen, etc. and this is including the mastery of Bach. Just look at is chorales and you'll quickly see that none of these "rules" are rules.
They're just limitations placed on students to make it easier for them, because the classroom is designed to create exercises for training purposes and not the free realm of musical creativity.
Nice gag with the jelly babies at the end.
I dont get whats this all about, Im not into classical music and that may not help, but i dont get whats the point on this method than just righting 4 melodies that work together at the same time. I just dont see where do you come from to understand why there are rules in here and so on
Mostly I like it as a method of learning how to voice-lead. It's a really valuable skill, and even if four-part writing's rules are a bit overboard, it really makes you think about how your notes are moving between chords, and that's super helpful to have.
so, its like a way to right music with 4 "voices" without playing chords explecitely but playing melodies that create those chords?
then you should first think what harmony do you want and then start wrighting?
You're talking about the counterpoint within the four - part texture. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. What comes first; the Melody or the harmony? Actually, they both work in conjunction.
Dude, stop with all these videos, let me sleep >:(
Sorry!
*12tone* How are the videos from 2015 but activity on them starts 4 months ago?
I’ve been having such a hard time in theory I and then I passed which I have no idea how but anyways- now I’m in theory II and I’m lost again.... we’re studying V & V7 right now and I’m like what
I’m very musically inclined but studying the actual fundamentals like how.....ITS SO FREAKING HARD!!! 😩😩😩
march 2020?
Don't quite understand the bit at 2:47 with the crossing, is it because soprano is moving below where the alto was, even if the alto moves with it?
Also, why wouldn't you double the leading tone in a dominant chord? Doubling the leading tone in a dominant V that resolves into a I is the first thing I thought of when you brought up doubling, and it sounds good when I play it, so what's the deal?
On the crossing bit, yeah, that's basically it. You're not supposed to move voices past where other voices just were.
As for doubling leading tones, it's to avoid parallelism. The leading tone has to resolve, so if you double it then both voices have to move up a half step, giving you parallel octaves.
Thanks for the explanation :D
I had the very same question about crossing in my mind when I watched this. I understand your explanation, it's a simply rule.
But now I wonder why this is a rule at all. That sounded like a perfectly good chord change in 2:54, so why is there a rule not to permit it?
I'm a gay
The example of his own music isn't four part writing, he just spread chords out over 4 octaves in 4 parts, not the same as having 4 different parts.
Hold my beer i can do that 😉. I will give it a try ar least
Good luck! It takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty simple. Just look out for those parallel fifths!