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12tone
Registrace 14. 08. 2014
something something music theory.
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Why Genre Still Matters (A Response to Polyphonic)
It's a dark day for the Ghost Notes fandom.
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So, a funny thing happened to me recently. I was watching the recent Polyphonic video about the death of genre, and suddenly, Noah called me out. By name! He challenged me to explain the academic perspective on genre, and I can't just say no to that sort of thing, so here I am stepping up and doing it. Musical genre's a really complicated thing, but it's also really important to how we understand and relate to the music we love, so let's dig in and try to figure it all out!
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Script: tinyurl.com/bddt7sh8
Fabbri's paper: www.francofabbri.net/files/Testi_per_Studenti/ffabbri81a.pdf
It's Boundo.'s ambient music video: czcams.com/video/I84_pIsv_iw/video.html
And thanks as well to Henry Reich, Gene Lushtak, Eugene Bulkin, Oliver, Adam Neely, Dave Mayer, OrionWolfie, David Bartz, CodenaCrow, Arnas, Caroline Simpson, Michael Alan Dorman, Blake Boyd, Charles Gaskell, Tom Evans, David Conrad, Ducky, Nikolay Semyonov, Chris Connett, Kenneth Kousen, h2g2guy, Andrew Engel, Peter Brinkmann, naomio, Alex Mole, Betsy, Tonya Custis, Walther, Graeme Lewis, Jake Sand, Jim Hayes, Scott Albertine, Evan Satinsky, Conor Stuart Roe, ZagOnEm, רועי סיני, Brian Miller, Thomas Morgan, Serena Crocker, Adam Ziegenhals, Mark, Amelia Lewis, Justin St John-Brooks, DialMForManning, JD White, Andrew Wyld, Graham Orndorff, gunnito, Douglas Anderson, Foreign Man in a Foreign Land, Tom, William Christie, Kyle Kinkaid, Joyce Orndorff, Stephen Tolputt, Isaac Hampton, Mark Mitchell Gloster, Andy Maurer, William Spratley, Don Jennings, Cormag81, Derek Hiemforth, Bryan, Mikeyxote, Milan Durnell, Dan Whitmer, Thel 'Vadam, FAD3 Chaos, Michael Morris, Bill Owens, Martin Romano, George Burgyan, Marc Testart, Carlfish, Matthew Soddy, Flavor Dave, DraconicDon, John W Campbell, Jimmy2Guys, Megan Oberfield, morolin, An Oni Moose, Ken Birdwell, Blue 5alamander, Panda, Cliff Hudson, Olivia Herald, Alin Nica, JayneOfCanton, or dahan, Ethan Savaglio, Robert Bailey, Deirdre Saoirse Moen, juneau, Sina Bahram, Ira Kroll, Patrick Minton, Justin Katz, Roahn Wynar, Chuck Dukhoff of The Stagger Lee Archives, Bob D'Errico, Robert Shaw, David Shlapak, Donald Murray, JD, Rennie Allen, Travis Briggs, Claire Postlethwaite, Greyson Erickson, Matt Deeds, Jordan Nordstrom-Young, Strife, Brian Covey, Miles_Naismith, Jay Harris, Sean Murphy, JasperJackal, Tommy Transplant, Wolfgang Giersche, Autographedcat, ParzivaLore, Amanda Jones, Olaf, Colleen Chapman, Gil, d0d63, Jon Purdy, Ken Brown, Colin Kennedy, The Mauses, Tom Belknap, christopher porto, Steffan Andrews, Katherine Drevis, William Wallace, Billy Abbott, Karel P Kerezman, Ted Trainor, mightstill, Nick Loh, Randy Thomson, rpenguinboy, Antarct, Erika Lee, Mikaela, Vinayak Nagaraj, sandra zarbatany, and Aenne Brielmann! Your support helps make 12tone even better!
Also, thanks to Jareth Arnold!
Get Nebula using my link for 40% off an annual subscription: go.nebula.tv/12tone
Or check out Danger Music: nebula.tv/videos/volksgeist-danger-music?ref=12tone
So, a funny thing happened to me recently. I was watching the recent Polyphonic video about the death of genre, and suddenly, Noah called me out. By name! He challenged me to explain the academic perspective on genre, and I can't just say no to that sort of thing, so here I am stepping up and doing it. Musical genre's a really complicated thing, but it's also really important to how we understand and relate to the music we love, so let's dig in and try to figure it all out!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/12tonevideos
Merch: standard.tv/12tone
Discord: discord.gg/pq2QBEw
Bluesky: bsky.app/profile/12tone.nebula.tv
Email: 12tonevideos@gmail.com
Script: tinyurl.com/bddt7sh8
Fabbri's paper: www.francofabbri.net/files/Testi_per_Studenti/ffabbri81a.pdf
It's Boundo.'s ambient music video: czcams.com/video/I84_pIsv_iw/video.html
And thanks as well to Henry Reich, Gene Lushtak, Eugene Bulkin, Oliver, Adam Neely, Dave Mayer, OrionWolfie, David Bartz, CodenaCrow, Arnas, Caroline Simpson, Michael Alan Dorman, Blake Boyd, Charles Gaskell, Tom Evans, David Conrad, Ducky, Nikolay Semyonov, Chris Connett, Kenneth Kousen, h2g2guy, Andrew Engel, Peter Brinkmann, naomio, Alex Mole, Betsy, Tonya Custis, Walther, Graeme Lewis, Jake Sand, Jim Hayes, Scott Albertine, Evan Satinsky, Conor Stuart Roe, ZagOnEm, רועי סיני, Brian Miller, Thomas Morgan, Serena Crocker, Adam Ziegenhals, Mark, Amelia Lewis, Justin St John-Brooks, DialMForManning, JD White, Andrew Wyld, Graham Orndorff, gunnito, Douglas Anderson, Foreign Man in a Foreign Land, Tom, William Christie, Kyle Kinkaid, Joyce Orndorff, Stephen Tolputt, Isaac Hampton, Mark Mitchell Gloster, Andy Maurer, William Spratley, Don Jennings, Cormag81, Derek Hiemforth, Bryan, Mikeyxote, Milan Durnell, Dan Whitmer, Thel 'Vadam, FAD3 Chaos, Michael Morris, Bill Owens, Martin Romano, George Burgyan, Marc Testart, Carlfish, Matthew Soddy, Flavor Dave, DraconicDon, John W Campbell, Jimmy2Guys, Megan Oberfield, morolin, An Oni Moose, Ken Birdwell, Blue 5alamander, Panda, Cliff Hudson, Olivia Herald, Alin Nica, JayneOfCanton, or dahan, Ethan Savaglio, Robert Bailey, Deirdre Saoirse Moen, juneau, Sina Bahram, Ira Kroll, Patrick Minton, Justin Katz, Roahn Wynar, Chuck Dukhoff of The Stagger Lee Archives, Bob D'Errico, Robert Shaw, David Shlapak, Donald Murray, JD, Rennie Allen, Travis Briggs, Claire Postlethwaite, Greyson Erickson, Matt Deeds, Jordan Nordstrom-Young, Strife, Brian Covey, Miles_Naismith, Jay Harris, Sean Murphy, JasperJackal, Tommy Transplant, Wolfgang Giersche, Autographedcat, ParzivaLore, Amanda Jones, Olaf, Colleen Chapman, Gil, d0d63, Jon Purdy, Ken Brown, Colin Kennedy, The Mauses, Tom Belknap, christopher porto, Steffan Andrews, Katherine Drevis, William Wallace, Billy Abbott, Karel P Kerezman, Ted Trainor, mightstill, Nick Loh, Randy Thomson, rpenguinboy, Antarct, Erika Lee, Mikaela, Vinayak Nagaraj, sandra zarbatany, and Aenne Brielmann! Your support helps make 12tone even better!
Also, thanks to Jareth Arnold!
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Ok, I really tried to follow you here, but after 5:34 of pure bulshit and nonsense, I decided to let you go and do something better with my time. No buddy, seems like you completely missed the point what Rick Beato’s arguments are all about. Listen to it again, open hearted, and maybe you get it. He is right. All the best, man!
Watching this video gives the viewer a media literacy certificate in "Genre".
I love your weird obsessions. I hope you never change this part of you
Please Please Me was like nothing before it. Love Me Do too. You obviously haven't bothered to research music from before the Beatles arrived. The Beatles rarely wrote songs that stayed in one key. Before them that was rarely done (To Know Him Is To Love Him, True Love Ways).
No, Beato is right. Today''s music, in the words of Mother Teresa, blows chunks. Empty is the bilge you are trying to defend. Rap is just popular because it appeals to any idiot that thinks he or she can rap. The music industry will sell anything that puts money into their pocket. Black acts have been traditionally the first ones that the music industry exploited. How many rappers have made a lot of money. There are about ten that the industry uses to lure other fools into chasing the dream. Music has declined since the 60s. Even many of the 70 acts were promoted despite being mediocre. As long as it sells the music industry will pimp it. Nobody cares about Grammies. The crap you played isn't interesting to those of us who grew up in the 60s. You really need to do some research.
Sometime there is no why! Someone should make up a phrase for that in music theory speak.
1:36
What a joy-draining over analysis of a great song.
All of them are gone. Harrison, Prince and Petty... 😢
String theory is real, magic and is everywhere. What a beautiful time to be alive. During the start of another Renaissance.
Rule of thumb: if you think [insert art] these days is worse than it used to be, you're wrong.
its a great solo...but greatest?
Never listened to Mr. Brightside but the silly elephant made me watch
Oh a post modern interpretation- nice
Of course genre Still Matters. And when it comes to heavy metal I would even go as far as saying Nothing Else Matters.
5:01 ITS THE BOY
Based on your definitions I really really hate 1st and 3rd wave buttrock, but I have quite the soft spot for 2nd wave
Yeah, in my understanding, the definition of "any event occurring around a sound" is too broad, because it had absolutely no limiting factors. So if a cricket makes an almost inaudible chirp that legitimizes an elephant standing at any undefined arbitrary distance away as being part of the "event".... Nah, too broad Now if we were to state that any event producing sound can be considered music because any person experiencing this event potentially could interpret the sound as musical, then we're getting somewhere.
It was a cliché rock solo.
Wow, I've just witnessed the single greatest thing the internet ever made. Thank you, I grinned stupidly through all of it, grasped 1/2 of it, and was inspired to grasp more. Five stars, will return.
Very good explanation despite the fact that you're left handed and hold a pen like monkey.
Prince was great but I never thought his articulation on guitar was on par with his heroes
czcams.com/video/mYY7xuxRmnc/video.htmlsi=ZT4v2zFoJ85bSoJY
This is gonna sound dumb to popular music fans, but I'm one of the people that stuck around in the dubstep scene. Im so happy that I did. I have never seen a genre evolve so much and become so interesting. It continues to get more exciting and interesting. New subgenres are coming up all of the time and brand new sounds left and right since the inception of bass music. Artists like Virtual Riot and Teminite are masters of innovation. Im a producer as well, and its difficult to even keep up with the ever changing sound of modern bass music. I used to be a big hip hop fan, but I feel like hip hop as a whole hit a brick wall in terms of innovation new styles. Obviously, there will always be exeptions, but for the most part everybody raps about the same stuff and the beats are uninspiring and mixed horribly. Everybody is trying to sound exactly like everyone else. For some reason, it doesnt evolve anymore. It is also highly gatekept and uninviting for some reason which was a turn off for sure, but thats besides the point. When hip hop becomes interesting again (if it ever does), i will be back to listen.
Raise your hand if you played this video thinking it was ViHart
what a bunch of pseudo intellectual nonsense literally anyone can come up with. PLEASE DELETE YOUR CHANNEL
I feel like if you think this is the best guitar solo ever played, you've barely listened to any guitar solos. I love this solo. But it's not even top 50.
Wild to me that Beck didn't get mentioned here. I think he's the first artist who comes to mind for me, though maybe he doesn't fit the "sincere" criteria.
those positing that genres are dying just don't know what's happening because they're not part of any particular subculture. reality is that while the mainstream is getting more and more uniform the underground has gone more underground. if your favourite underground style gets public attention, you'll either see police crack down on your events (if there's anti-establishement sentiment there. and yes, this is in western europe) or it will get commercialised quickly with people losing interest. so any of the varying subcultures with their defining music genres will fly under the radar, just to survive.
do people... really think like this? I find it so hard to believe that the guy who wrote this song thought about ALL of this
When I hear "art music" I think of like, 4'33 and that person who made ultrasonic music only dogs could hear
Am I the only person who finds Beato annoying?
I think the resolution of the tag is significantly better with the dip-and-rise rather than the simple resolution. The simple resolution is.. well.. boring, predictable. But more than that it leaves the melody on a downswing, which you can hear in Elton John's version, rather than the "unresolved" lift of the original version. The song is energetic, bright, set in a buzzing pinball arcade, and sung by someone witnessing something amazing. The atmosphere is excited and jumping, which I think the strange resolution accomplishes. And if you want to align it with a narrative, rather than painting the scene as a foreshadowing of Tommy's dark future, it illustrates the frenetic excitement of those witnessing Tommy at his best - drawing comparison to those who would later follow him.
whites have been playing the blues long before the negro learned english , country music is the origins of blues
That earworm was rude sir. I had gone several days without that stuck in my head. I bite my thumb at you. 😂
there's also a Rick Beato version of What Makes This Song Great for Tiny Dancer as well as Rocket Man.
10:20 "If you're not familiar with modern no-wave, that was probably a little overwhelming" *Me who's listened to so much 100 Gecs and Fraxiom that it just sounded like normal music:* Huh?
Swing baby
you fool, i make breakcore sometimes
It's very good, but it's not close to the greatest. It's so overrated, imo.
Dude, to say that Ghost song is metal is like saying listening to eBooks is reading. It is not.
Watching this in 2024, it’s astonishing how far 12-Tone has come. This earlier work is awkward and frankly, annoying plus forgettable. The more recent content on this channel is much, much more polished and interesting.
Best solo ever is Joe Lovano on the song Compensation, from Mel Lewis jazz orchestra live at the village vanguard. The trumpet solo in the same song is almost as good.
Illustrating "disappointing" with a Wolf of House Stark. Nerd kudos.
Some thoughts on the definition of music, I can't say that I agree that music is "nothing until it is experienced." To use the tree falling in a forest example, lets say you set up a speaker in the woods and play a song from a remote location. That music still exists in that place and time from the movement of air created by the speaker even though no one is there to experience it. Music and sound are actually physical phenomena, and to say that they are entirely experiential is not correct, IMHO. I don't have a better definition and I thoroughy enjoyed this discussion, just thought I'd add my 2c.
It's still a soul-less song.
So, interesting video, as always, but ... What was your point? Our models of genre are dying, and we need a new framework? Maybe you could've elaborated on this single-sentence conclusion? I dunno, the video feels un-concluded, to me.
genre is another way to categorize which is unique to humans. it is meaningless and false.
Muffin Man FZ live in New York…. That’s how it’s done…. And that woulda been not have been rehearsed either
Planned and absolutely awesome but if you want unplanned and awesome you can’t beat Frank Zappa