The Impossible Happened! ♔ Chess Computer Match, 1989 vs 2022 (Mephisto vs Stockfish) ASMR
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- This is the craziest thing I've ever witnessed in chess... Seriously...
In this video the old chess computer Mephisto from 1989 face off against the 2022 ChessUp computer running Stockfish 15. The result should be a given... Right?.... Riiiiight?? Watch the video and please explain to me how THAT happened!
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The video is relaxing ASMR, softly spoken and occasionally whispered.
This video is sponsored by Wren.
00:00 intro
01:35 sponsor
03:20 original intro
05:27 THE GAME pt. 1
24:22 post mortem 1
26:18 THE GAME pt. 2
36:43 post mortem 2
38:33 THE GAME pt. 3
59:33 post mortem 3
1:00:34 THE GAME pt. 4
1:08:34 post mortem 4
1:12:46 original conclusion - Zábava
Imagine this from the computers POV. They could literally play this game in milliseconds, and the human took over an hour just to move the pieces...
Well since computers have no concept of time and only “think” while computing it still feels like milliseconds for them
To quote Futurama: "checkmate in 48 moves."
Or that he explained what he thought for a few minutes before moving
czcams.com/video/PKL2uB1gNK0/video.html
@@ToyotaChariots Why don't they have a concept of time?
Stockfish sadistically dodging the threefold repetition draw a thousand times, then drawing without realizing feels kinda good
Mephisto is so powerful that he realized he was playing against a better AI and then tried to play the only moves that allowed him to find a bug in his opponent, maximizing the result considering his computing power.
An engineering and economic masterpiece in terms of resources/performance.
29:03 : My chess strategy in every match.
all too relatable
Got an actual laugh out of this one!
🤣
I second the laugh out loud. I had to come back to this video just to comment that this made me laugh
In my mind I will start saying "now we will play the blunder" before precarious moves lol
Wowwwww look at that old boy go!!! He's a real fighter, drawing a modern program like that. EVEN IF IT WAS A BUG, WE'RE STILL PROUD OF YOU MEPHISTO 👏
Indeed we are!
Apparently, the Mephisto board has a tested strength of about ~1700 elo, so that is very impressive
Wow it was very polite of Stockfish to give it's grandpa a draw
Software engineer here: I obviously don't have access to the software being used by the chess website, and I also haven't looked at any of the Stockfish source code, but here's my hypothesis based on 20 years of experience in the industry:
This appears to be a discrepancy between the "rules engine" software, which is responsible for enforcing the rules of the game when a player attempts to make a move, and the "game engine" software, which is responsible for calculating the best moves for a given position. The discrepancy is regarding whether or not the game is in a drawn state. As you can see, the rules engine (correctly) believes the game to be drawn: it is preventing any additional moves in the game and awarding each player 1/2 point, effectively ending gameplay. However, if you look at the Stockfish calculation in the final position, the game engine clearly does not believe this game to be drawn: if it did, it would display an equal positional evaluation of 0.00, indicating a drawn position. Instead, the game engine is reporting a 6.23 point advantage for black. This seemingly indicates that, according to the game engine, a draw has not been reached.
Now, I went back through the video and counted the number of times the final position was reached: I did count 3. This tells me that there's either a bug in the Stockfish algorithm with respect to recognizing threefold repetition, or a bug in the way the website is utilizing the results of the Stockfish calculations. Given that you have tested this on two separate and independent platforms, I would conclude the former. Exactly what the root cause of the bug is, I can't say... but the developers contributing to the Stockfish project can figure it out. You should submit a bug report to them via their GitHub page containing the pgn of this game and a link to your video. In my _professional_ opinion, this game is peculiar enough to warrant some investigation on their part.
As always, great content from this channel. Thanks for all you do for us.
As another software engineer, it does seem there's a disconnect like you say.
Legit speechless by this. Can’t be explained as anything other than a bug in Stockfish, and one that I’ve never encountered before. I’ve seen Stockfish unable to determine the strength of a move before it’s played, but missing a one move draw is inexplicable.
This is such a cool video because of that. You’ll probably never be able to replicate this in a different setting. I’d love to hear some follow up explanation if you find someone who can look under the hood and tell us more.
Also, great job Mephisto! Lol
Congrats on making history
He’s back! I was just thinking there hasn’t been a new ASMR Chess video recently and checked to find this, love the videos, thank you!
fell asleep to this video last night and went back to rewatch it this morning, expecting to have my hopes from the title be dashed, but what an absolutely exciting result!
same
Okay, so chess AI like Stockfish use a minimax algorithm with AB pruning and lots of optimizations. One of which is a lookup table. Board states are hashed (for instance by zobrist hashing), which makes them easy to find in a database. There is a very small chance that 2 different board states lead to the same hash. It could be, that with Stockfish, hash collisions are ignored, because of the extremely small chance? Otherwise it has to do with some optimization that they used to check for, or store, repetitions.
Interesting! I’ll look into that!
I want to feel smart so I'll pretend like I understand what you said there. Yep, I 100% agree with you, that is clearly the issue my friend! Took the words right out of my mouth!
@@thecook238 indeed I too tend to ignore hash collisions. If you'll excuse me, I need to remove my Brownee motions from the oven
@@thecook238 Essentially, the board state would be converted to a string of characters like 'aabbccddeeffgg', except a lot more "random" and longer. Because of it's low chance to be repeated the OP is assuming stockfish doesn't have a check to fix this problem. So there would be 2 different board states with the exact same hash, so during the lookup there would be confusion.
The problem is that there is no easy fix for hash collisions. Stockfish hashes board positions into a 64 bit number, which yields a total of 2^64 possible hashes. However, there are way more chess positions, so rarely, two of them turn into the same hash and collisions happen and there is not really anything, we can do about that
Holy moly the wait was worth it, so happy to fall asleep to this tonight!
You're so underrated
Love your content, keep up the good work and merry Christmas to everyone :D
Fell asleep the first three times so here I am watching the game again at 4am 😆
I wish the chess pieces were magnetic so when you moved them they would magnetically stick. Would be so cool.
Grandpa said "Let's call it a draw and get ice cream."
We call it the ice cream gambit.
Grandpa always wins
Amazing as always
12:52 I play the vienna exclusively so a little bit of insight here: If black continues developing naturally with a move like Bc5, white has a couple options but f4 systems can often transpose into KGD positions where on a high depth stockfish recognizes white is actually better! There's even a really cool line where white can sack a rook! e4 e5 Nc3 Nc6 Bc4 Nf6 d3 Bc5 f4 d6 Nf3 Bg4 h3 Bxf3 Qxf3 Nd4 Qg3!! 4...Na5 is boring and breaks all oppening priniples, but concretely it ruins white's pawn chain and gets rid of the pride of the position in the light squared bishop. Sure black gives up any and all winning chances, but stockfish hates fun anyway so it's happy to try and force the game to as drawish a position as early as possible
That was the most exciting bot game ive ever watched, super dynamic, super dramatic, and of course WHAT A RESULT!
This was such a cool video! It should have more views
Listen...I'm from 1986. Please stop making me seem ancient.
Just play Stockfish to a draw and everybody will be super impressed that you are from 1986 - three years BEFORE 1989!!
Don’t worry we don’t judge on this channel sir😊
Who would win: The world's powerful chess computer or one fisty Boi?
I love this stuff, it’s chess, but relaxing!
What is very interesting to me is that on the chess website, you can see that even after the game is drawn, stockfish appears to still be calculating lines and moves, even though the game is over and there are no more moves that can be made. I sincerely can not see how this could be anything other than a bug.
What is interesting is that the same bug appears on two different platforms I think.
@@ASMRChess would that mean it's a bug specifically with stockfish then? Both your chessup board and the chess website agree that it's a draw, but it seems somehow the ai just doesn't understand this.
Wow...your voice is really good for asmr...first video I watched. Subscribed 👍
Stockfish: *"WHERE ARE YOU GETTING AT OLD MAN?!"*
Mephisto: "It's quite simple young one. I don't have to win, _But neither do you..."_
There's no way stockfish didn't see the repetition because there were different moves in between the repeated states, right? It's the only thing I can think of but it's far too basic for stockfish, it makes no sense
If you have good garbage collection protocols, and your program is simple enough, you don't need much working RAM. No video memory, no multitasking, nothing that you'd see in your normal devices. That's how the older chess computer gets away with only having 256 bytes of working memory; it just doesn't need any more.
But with so little RAM, there's no transposition table I think?
@@michaelbauers8800 there's a rom too, you can't have permeant storage in ram
@@michaelbauers8800 sorry to nerd out, but RAM is only used for running the program out of, and variables. so the program transfers from storage to ram and gets executed from ram
@@theorphanobliterator Of course not.
Man I love these videos. Can we see Chessmaster play Stockfish?
I ordered the same Mephisto as in this video, Mephisto Europa A, and then I see this video. Was a good game to watch, thanks to your commentary.
It’s an awesome little thing!
Well all I can say is that computers surely do disappoint in some moves in chess, very good video though keep it up.
incredible!
I tried to make chess asmr but it didn't go so well, this is very relaxing
Thank you :) my first videos didn’t go so well either. Maybe just try again? I had this channel for 6 years before it really “clicked” for me how I should make my videos.
Pre-order the ChessUp board with 10% discount using my link: playchessup.com/?ref=ASMRCHESS **AND** use the promo code ASMR at checkout.
if I had to guess what stockfish was *thinking*, there was probably the repetition of moves as 1 posible response to its checks, but every other move was probably evaluated as loosing. So it probably was supposed to repeate moves only once, giving the opponent a chance to blunder before playing into a different line(cause I can't imagine any other explanation personally)
Finally found the time to watch the video. Good night sleep everyone
I love my Mephisto, but I wasn't expected this result. Good old boy! 😁
You're different from other asmrists I've found in a wonderful way! You make videos that are both relaxing AND entertaining! Your videos are simply amazing. Thank you!
Let’s go baby!!
Great. I already own a Chessup board and now they are way cheaper. Well at least I can use mine now...
You should send this game to the developers of both stockfish versions. Shouldn't the program be aware of draws by repetition?
I am talking to the founder of ChessUp (Jeff) about ideas to upgrade the product and provide him with my own feedback and feedback from my viewers who have bought the ChessUp board. We are currently trying to figure out how the bug happened - the fascinating thing is that chess.com has the EXACT same bug even though they are completely unrelated to ChessUp. I will probably make a video about it when I find the answer.
I would think then that it's definitely Stockfish
@@ASMRChessany update?
@@ASMRChessDid you find the answer?
This chess up thing is amazing and I want it so badly so I can learn chess but it’s so damn expensive😭
Some days ago my chessmaster 9000 in its personality of paul keres drew with stockfish 14 level 8. i have de notation. Yes, it can happen and it happens.
😯😯😯 the magic/science of chess
too bad youtube isn't paying creators well, so everyone needs to turn into a big advertisement machine
I agree. That is also why I have a patreon. If 1% of my viewers paid 1$ every month I wouldn’t have to do sponsored segments. But not everybody can afford that and that is completely okay. I am just working to grow the channel until it becomes so big that I won’t have to make as many sponsored segments. You can support the channel on www.patreon.com/asmrchess if you want :)
Sooo, I was looking through your backlog of videos and found your wonderful Inuit friend Arnaq. I realize it's not really on brand for the channel anymore, but is there any chance we could get some more of her gorgeous language? Don't get me wrong, your bread and butter chess videos are great! It's just that she hasn't been on the channel for quite a while.
Congrats on the sponsor dude!
I analyzed this game with an installed copy of Stockfish 14.1 and it seems something went terribly wrong with the ChessUp in this game:
29:09 12.Qd2 loses a piece after Qxg2, Bd2 is the best move
45:20 23.Re3 gives up an exchange for nothing, Kd2 is the best move
57:35 25.Rh3 is actually the best move
1:11:00 39...Rf4+ doesn't even show up unless I set the program to analyze 26 different lines (and it recognizes it as a draw), otherwise d5 is the best move
Edit: The repetition bug might be caused by only looking at the Forsyth-Edwards Notation for the position (as it doesn't record the number of times a position was repeated) instead of considering the whole game. If I analyze the problematic position that way, Rf4+ does get suggested.
Everything up to Rf4+ is fine according to my analysis. It plays strong moves consistently until Rf+ which is a HUGE blunder. I like your idea about FEN being used - in that case both ChessUp and Chess.com will have made the same mistake in integrating Stockfish.
@@ASMRChess For the moves prior to Rf4+ I was talking about the "best move" color highlight feature as shown in the video.
Bump
We need a rematch!
How about a rematch between the Chessup and the new Mephisto Phoenix?
Granddaughter vs great grandson?
Can ou make a chess video about the pirc defense
I’ve seen the similar board but the pieces moved on their own it was super cool. Would be cool if it hooked up online or somethin so you could play a friend or people in your skill range.
It does hook up online :)
Moving boards have historically had issues, even the latest Square Off boards have some reported issues. It's expensive to make a truly durable movement system, so you can't expect that. It's just a question of how durable. We had self moving boards back in the 1980s, and I would see them in stores, and stand there in amazement watching them do their thing. I was a kid, not a rich kid, so they were out of question to buy. I did consider the Square Off, but I bought a Millenium Chess Classics Exclusive, with wooden board, and full piece recognition. Very easy to play a game of chess against it. It does get online, but requires a separate bluetooth gizmo. And figuring out exactly what it supports is not simple. There's also Chess Nut Air, Millenium e-one, DGT Pegasus, etc. Lots of products with various pros and cons.
@@michaelbauers8800 they’ll just have augmented reality, you can throw on glasses and the pieces appear. Then they actually fight when you’re playing😂
@@michaelbauers8800 I can imagine how the mechanics could get tricky under the board magnets trying to move pieces, but it’d have to be so intricate.
@@Toxikyle1 There are some videos, showing some mechanisms for moving the pieces. Imagine a metal rod, connected to some sort of rails on both sides, and it can move across board. Then another gizmo, that moves along the rod. I presume the gizmo has a magnet that can be turned on or off. Then you just need clever software, that can move pieces in the way, for example, for knight moves.
Ironically the old one is more compact
Not trying to be contradictory and pedantic, but IMO doesn't seem at all ironic, because the actual electronics are not large even for the first Chessmaster. A CPU, some ROM, some RAM, a bit more circuitry. There have been electronic chess sets with a wide range of board sizes, or in some cases no board at all. There were even calculator sized chess computers, one even had a tiny little pull out board.
Where Is the link to wern??😮
what chess pieces do you use on your wooden chess board?
I think Stockfish AI is just refusing to take less optimal moves even if it results in a draw. We can prove this is if the same thing happens over and over again.
Yes I agree that Stockfish must somehow be unaware that the move results in a draw which makes it a bad move. If the move did not result in a draw it would be a good move and therefore it is very probable that Stockfish simply thinks it is the best.
I'm my own granddaughter? (Born in 1989) Hahahaha Also the perfect move here 34:38 would've been to castle the White King with the unmoved rook but oh well
I have ordered a ChessUp board but there is no information for when it arrives.
Conversely, I have ordered the same Mephisto as in this video (before I saw this video) 😄
I think I’m just dumb and confused but, how could you tell where the Mephisto was moving pieces? I couldn’t tell and it seems super interesting!
you are not dumb. I explain how this works in another video. You can watch it here (the timestamp should take you directly to the relevant part of the video; 08:14) czcams.com/video/aeLhLecgPbM/video.html&ab_channel=ASMRChess
@@ASMRChess thank you very much!
I cannot sleep if i loose in row
🤯🤯🤯
33:12 I think you meant 89 instead of 98, or is the title wrong?
Yes you are correct
Are you whispering so not to disturb the players?
Yes, the Mephisto Chess Computer is easily distracted.
3:33
Maybe the weird behavior could have something to do with the depth that it reaches before the move is shown on the board? I’ve used stockfish 15.1 and it usually finds a move in a few hundred milliseconds but you wait around 5-10 seconds it comes up with a new better move because it had more time to reach a higher depth. Im not sure if its related though
Why is that a draw? I dont get it?
Good question! It is a draw by three fold repetition.
Threefold repetition - Wikipedia en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_repetition
I have a question: I’ve always been brought up on the fact that the king is always placed upon his own colour yet I hardly ever see it set up like that. Have I been told wrong all my life or what I’m a bit confused
yes you have been told wrong. The queen starts on her own color.
Strangely I was too.
Mandela effect? Me too
This video speaks for itself.
The game would be more comprehensive if all the chess pieces were in the same place if u can say like that , the fact than the old boy is upside down of thenew one make me a little confused at first
How do you tell what Mephisto is telling you to do? I can’t see anything changing
Good question :) there are small lights that show the moves. You can watch my video about Mephisto to see how it works. czcams.com/video/aeLhLecgPbM/video.html
@@ASMRChess thank you
Usually whoever goes first wins or ends in stalemate right?
Jeg ka høre din svage danske aksang
How do know what Mefisto wants to move??
It has little LEDs at the 1-8/A-G
T
Bro chess finally got an update💀💀☠️
First
Can you edit your sound to be crispy? It’s too much bass which I don’t like in asmr and also go ear to ear sometimes
Agree. Lower the bass!
Can you talk a little bit not loud 🙏
very clever really low voice yawn
Instead of funding these projects, you could just go vegan. That's the best thing you as an invididual can do for climate and environment. It's also morally the better thing to do for most people located in industrial nations.
Lolwut
Chess engines don't typically check if a move results in a draw due to repetition or 50 move rule or even insufficient material. If you put white and black against each other with just a king they will move around endlessly if nothing stops them. The chess engine simply sees if a move is legal and evaluates the resulting position.
The reason I believe they don't do this check is because I am fairly certain it would exponentially increase the amount of calculation to check if a what would be winning position turns out to be a draw due to the special rules and have to start over.
I’ve gotten better by watching your videos thanks. 🤘🏼♟