Extrusion Quality - Mystery issue resolved !

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  • čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
  • 🍺 SUPPORT ME: / miragec
    How I identified and resolved my direct drive extruder inconsistent flow and print surface artifact.
    After release of this video I realized that many others have this issue. Thanks to people commenting here I was made aware of:
    Prusa Issue 602 - github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firm...
    Voron Issue 6 - github.com/VoronDesign/Voron-...
    If you like my work and would like to support my efforts in making more open source 3D printing solutions, please consider a donation or becoming a Patron.
    In this video I walk through my journey to find the rootcause of this common issue with direct drive extruders:
    00:00 Intro
    01:30 Timing ruled out
    02:04 Motion System ruled out (XYZ)
    04:16 Bowden prints better!
    05:11 Direct Drive extruder system breakdown
    06:17 Troubleshooting methodology
    07:11 First issue - Impact of hobb gear wobbling
    12:33 Second Issue - Impact of filament diameter inconsistencies
    14:39 Experimental gear from Bondtech
    15:16 Third Issue - Plastic gear from BMG may also be in cause
    16:55 Back to square one, issue is somewhere else
    17:36 Fourth Issue - New theory about "Filament Walk"
    19:35 Showing improvement from new Bondtech gear once Filament walk has been resolved
    Components used in this video:
    Fysetc better machined POM gear ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DCn...
    Bearings to smoothen the Idler (MR85) ► s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DC7...
    PayPal Donation ► www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_...
    You want to learn and contribute to the HevORT project?
    FACEBOOK ► / hevort
    DISCORD ► / discord
    FORUMS ► forums.hevort.com/index.php
    Thank you very much!
    MirageC
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 1,2K

  • @nunosantiago6720
    @nunosantiago6720 Před rokem +808

    We at Bondtech are really proud to be working with MirageC on perfecting filament 3D printing. No matter how small the required quality increments may be, at Bondtech we always strive to improve. Actions have been taken and more experimenting will be done. The reverse integrated drive gear is just the beginning. Changes in the moulds that make our plastic main gears were performed. Additional quality controls are in place to minimize the runouts. We are sketching new designs for the gripping teeth.
    The (r)evolution takes time but doesn't stop here.
    Thank you MirageC.
    Great job🙂

    • @eduncan911
      @eduncan911 Před rokem +12

      How would LGX Lite gears play into this?

    • @seha2306
      @seha2306 Před rokem

      Is the normal BMG Extruder also effected by the Problems shown in the video?

    • @nunosantiago6720
      @nunosantiago6720 Před rokem +42

      What MirageC unveiled is important. Bondtech is addressing it. However... it is a sub-prime aesthetic performance of legacy Dual Drive Technology on a direct extruder application. Always tradeoffs. Plenty advantages. This disadvantage.
      Now... remember the BB era, Before Bondtech. Filament feeders were very unreliable. Look at your feeders now. None is perfect but they are mostly much better. Open them up and look inside. More than 90% of you - not using LGX - will see a different flavour of Bondtech legacy Dual Drive Gear Technology. Why? Because it was state of the Art until LGX.
      Can we build them better? Yes! No doubt. Nothing is perfect. We are working on it.
      Remember we are a small company of 17 strong, always, always working with our community to improve our Dual Drive technologies, legacy and LGX. From my side, I'm looking forward to see what we all together will achieve next.

    • @seha2306
      @seha2306 Před rokem +7

      ​ @Nuno Santiago I have a reality complex 3 Point Z axes like the HevORT and rebuild my printer 4 times because of the artifact shown in the video but never got rid of it. I would have never thought that my extruder may be the fault. I hope bondtech will come up with an upgrade for existing BMG Extruders.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +38

      It is such a pleasure to work with you guys. This investigation has now led us to the definition of the next FDM (r)evolution as you said.
      I would like to emphasis on one point though:
      BondTech has made their internal components available to hobbyists just like me for integrating them into all sorts of extruders.
      - Direct Drive
      - Shorter Path (gears to nozzle)
      - Different motors
      - FDM Printed self designed housing and tension levers.
      - etc...
      Sometimes these installations have been more demanding and may have not meet the initial design intentions. We have discovered some shortfalls because we are looking closer with a more demanding angle.
      I am so happy that we can now all take these lessons learned and move together to the next level!
      @Nuno Santiago: That new shaft is AMAZING!!!! I am getting print quality now that I have never seen before!
      Thank you Bondtech!

  • @mateussousa3639
    @mateussousa3639 Před 6 měsíci +56

    Bro wrote and validated an entire PhD thesis and thought we wouldn't notice.
    What an incredible work. Subscribed.

    • @Gepstra
      @Gepstra Před 2 měsíci +1

      an incredible work

  • @niksoley
    @niksoley Před rokem +274

    Ok, that is by far the best 3D printing video that I’ve seen.

    • @androiduberalles
      @androiduberalles Před rokem +8

      RIght? 3D printing nerd would be like "hey guys, look at this other person's model I am using and printing at 400%!"

    • @niksoley
      @niksoley Před rokem +14

      @@androiduberalles true. His is more into broad public, but I am more into hardcore maker and engineering. And this video, is engineering at its best.

    • @larryfroot
      @larryfroot Před rokem

      Same.

    • @DaddyVet3D
      @DaddyVet3D Před rokem +3

      Welcome to the dark side hahahah. When you finally stumble onto Mirage C’s channel you know its headed down a long path of tinkering!

    • @mwdh9100
      @mwdh9100 Před 3 měsíci

      I agree

  • @Vez3D
    @Vez3D Před rokem +324

    Man!!! You made me laugh so hard when i saw that LSD acronym 😄 🤣 😂 Thanks for all research you have made. Incredible amount of work and frustration has gone into this. I was really happy to stand next to you in the process ...just holding your beer was an honor. 3D printing gets better because of guys like you that are passionate and refuse to abandon on your ideals. Im proud of you brother!!! You deserve a huge beer now!!! Love you!! Now rest a bit and regain your sleep that was left on the table in the garage. THANKS!!!!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +23

      Yeah.... passion and sleep don't mix well.. but you know that already! Thanks again for all of your "moral" support! 😜

    • @Brise215
      @Brise215 Před rokem +2

      @vez3d same goes for you!

    • @tobit6890
      @tobit6890 Před rokem +3

      Have you seen Proper Printings belted extruder? What do you think about that?

    • @johndeglavina3729
      @johndeglavina3729 Před rokem +2

      I lol'ed out loud at your 3d printing love. If you guys loop in Stephan from CNC kitchen, you'll have a super high quality 3d printing thruple.

    • @Vez3D
      @Vez3D Před rokem +2

      @@tobit6890 yeah i saw it.. and MirageC and I even had that same idea and dissscussed about it before we saw proper printing do it. What an awesome guy. Im a big fan of his work. The extruder is nice. The idea is nice. Just wondering how long belts will.last at high speed with abrasive material.

  • @DaveDDD
    @DaveDDD Před rokem +243

    This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!

  • @peplegal8253
    @peplegal8253 Před rokem +122

    The animations of this channel are jaw-dropping ! So much effort and talent put to ilustrate the subject...Everything done with such professionalism !
    I'm truly impressed !

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem

      Glad you enjoy it!

    • @persimonsen8792
      @persimonsen8792 Před rokem

      @@MirageC Every micron count's. And you are def on the right track.
      Enjoyed your, looking at my stock Ender 3.

  • @H34...
    @H34... Před rokem +67

    MihaiDesigns has done a couple of videos troubleshooting these sorts of patterns. If you print a tapering object, the horizontal bands create a wavey moire pattern that he uses to work out how often (i.e. how many degrees turned of motor/hobbed gear) the variation occurs. Like you he found that the geared idler caused problems, but also the hobbing itself creates a very fine pattern due to ever so slightly varying diameter from the highs and lows of the hobbing.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +12

      Yes! so many aspects are impacting our prints!
      - Gear eccentricity
      - Spur gear meshing
      - hobb teeth
      - filament walk in the hobb
      and I am sure we will discover more as we regain control on the items of this list.

  • @singulartier4298
    @singulartier4298 Před rokem +84

    I've heard it was the backlash from the idler -- but this makes SO much more sense. Thanks for this!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +16

      Yes, backlash, gear mesh, filament walking in the hobb, hobb eccentricity, they are all contributors. Thank you

    • @Nobody-Nowhere
      @Nobody-Nowhere Před rokem +14

      Didn't MihaiDesigns point this issue out 1 year ago? That its an issue in dual extruder designs. And in the end, dual extruders are kinda pointless design... as you don't need more force to push filament through, you need more melting power so you don't need more force.

    • @dzitiatri
      @dzitiatri Před rokem +2

      @@Nobody-Nowhere and also better hotend cooling for retraction.

  • @JoshMurrah
    @JoshMurrah Před rokem +89

    After watching this video - I ran straight to patreon and signed up for the $7 tier - I loved the deep dive, attention to detail, possible solutions, and everything I saw. Thank you for your hard work!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +2

      Oh wow! Thank you for your support man! :)

  • @YavorBrick3D
    @YavorBrick3D Před rokem +69

    I really hope this can be modded into the latest stealthburner too, and overall becomes a new extruder standard

    • @Nobody-Nowhere
      @Nobody-Nowhere Před rokem +4

      Should test different types of extruders, like the OMG extruder. But when everyone always uses the same and keeps claiming its the "standard" or the "best", no better options will be found.

  • @marsgizmo
    @marsgizmo Před rokem +103

    excellent work on analyzing this! 👏😎

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +5

      Thanks man!

    • @wrxsubaru02
      @wrxsubaru02 Před rokem +5

      Yeah, seriously! I would never have thought about the extruder gears being an issue. He really opened my eyes to something that never crossed my mind.

  • @jakobwest4811
    @jakobwest4811 Před rokem +44

    I cannot belive you are just putting this info out for free. What an incredible deep dive into a problem nobody knew existed. I can't even fathom the time and work that went into this. From the experiments to the CAD model sims this is just downright amazing.

    • @darkracer1252
      @darkracer1252 Před 2 měsíci

      i cannot believe someone would NOT put this info out for free. (unless they have millions and are planning to build a company based on this idea and basicly be a greedy piece of human filth)

  • @247printing
    @247printing Před rokem +57

    Mindblowing video, thank you very much 🤩🙏 As always, you manage to make a great balance between theory and practical show casing. A perfect balance for me personally 👍👍👍

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem

      Thank you very much! Thanks for the feedback Albert! Cheers!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem

      @UCg1_CKT8bGmaqTpPbL8EDJg Mihai pointed at the gear meshing. If you look at 6:37 I have ruled out that phenomenon from my analysis.

  • @RuiPisco736
    @RuiPisco736 Před rokem +4

    This is one of the best videos I've seen, technically well explained. You have given me the answer to one of my constant problems, I have a printer built by me, all well tuned, 3 times, and it always presents these artifacts, of course it is direct drive, I had never stopped to think that those tolerances in the extruder could be the cause. You are a genius, thanks for that research, there should be more content like this and not so many empty and unprofessional videos like the ones that abound on youtube. Thanks man..!!!

  • @AsherLimaPapa
    @AsherLimaPapa Před rokem +2

    Absolutely SPECTACULAR work! The level of research and fault isolation is nothing short of professional. Thank you deeply for this!

  • @htw007
    @htw007 Před rokem +5

    I can't imagine how many hours it took you to make all these (tests-experiments-emails-reading-sketching-video editing and a lot more). Sometimes there are videos like yours that are mind-blowing. Honestly, thank you for your effort, i hope soon this will become available for ordering. Thank you !!!

  • @wolffox008
    @wolffox008 Před rokem +8

    C’est un travail de fou que tu as fait sur ce vidéo! WoW je crois que les compagnies qui conçoivent des extrudeurs ont beaucoup à apprendre de tes recherches. Merci j’ai été captivé!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +4

      Merci! Oui en effet! Beaucoup de travail... ou d'entêtement... je ne sais plus où tracer la ligne...

  • @hayden9944
    @hayden9944 Před rokem +14

    I’m and Engineer out of the U.K. and this is really good concise work. Nice engineering! Hope to see improvement in the market after your work! 👍🏻

  • @nirecue
    @nirecue Před rokem +6

    Yeah this deserves at least $3 a month. Such a great in-depth explanation/breakdown of the problem that didn't go over my head. I also appreciate that I didn't have to wait months for a solutions/testing follow up video.

  • @justjake5454
    @justjake5454 Před rokem

    I really admire your dedication. I’ve been 3D printing for only about a year now and have run into several of my own struggles. The way you approach problem solving is truly inspiring.

  • @hurzelgnurk
    @hurzelgnurk Před rokem +15

    I started with 3d printing in february and have been hunting the same problem ever since. Thank you, I'm not crazy or too picky!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +4

      This issue has prevented me from going all out with my printer design. Now know where to focus.

  • @LordDarthNihilus
    @LordDarthNihilus Před rokem +2

    Thank you, I am glad you are in conversation with manufacturers. I have heard so many bad things about direct drive extruders, like the diameter change when the two tooth wheels distance changes due to the pressure applied by the spring... I am glad I have a bowden which works just fine. I am very excited on what their solution will be, because only then I might consider changing to a direct drive. One toothwheel with an idler pulley is perfect, two "semi synchronized" are just another factor increasing issues.

  • @MrJacksonXis
    @MrJacksonXis Před rokem +3

    Here in Brazil we aprecciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for this research, it will help us a lot. Keep it going! All 3D print makers in the world have to thank you.

  • @Luke-Barrett
    @Luke-Barrett Před rokem +4

    This was amazing! I wish more videos online would have this high of a quality research and info .

  • @eclsnowman
    @eclsnowman Před rokem +21

    Glad to hear you are working with Martin and the team at Bondtech. He is a great guy, and always working towards continuous improvement. Between the two of you I am sure you will get an excellent solution figured out.

  • @RyoninShonin
    @RyoninShonin Před 5 měsíci

    This solved a big part of me constantly failing first layer prints. Gaps at intervals was thinking it had to be the fillament and down the rabbit hole i went. A year later i am excited to dust off the printer and re-approach my trouble shooting. Thank you Miragec and Bondtech for continuing to help us learn and improve!

  • @agepbiz
    @agepbiz Před rokem +5

    This is very interesting! I appreciate the research you have done

  • @groggynod
    @groggynod Před rokem +7

    Brilliant determination and use of the scientific method to discover something overlooked by many, myself included.

  • @johnwalshe3
    @johnwalshe3 Před rokem +13

    A nice engineering breakdown, well done. I don't have a background in 3D printing, but I work in the steel industry where we have very similar issues in cold rolling steel. Very small eccentricities in the rolls and thickness variation in the incoming strip translate into out-of-tolerance thickness variation in the rolled sheet steel (and wobbly car doors...). You can't engineer all of it out, so you have to have a dynamic control system to allow for it. Thinking about an analogy here, you would need to have a force or displacement transducer on the idler gear, to measure the effective filament thickness, and an independent measurement of filament speed, say a pulse encoder on another idler wheel. This would enable you to measure actual mass flow through the extruder - what you really want to keep constant. You would then need a controller to apply a correction to the stepper motor drive. This would effectively have two components, a cyclic one to correct for eccentricity and a slower feedback control to allow for fulfillment thickness variation. Sounds complicated, but several million tonnes of steel a year says this sort of system works. Hope this helps!

    • @darkracer1252
      @darkracer1252 Před 2 měsíci

      or just get a fillament diameter sensor. no need to make the extruder extremely expensive just to put a force measuring sensor in the idler wheel.
      and yes extremely expensive because this thing needs to be able to do it's job without introducing more play into the idler.

  • @cynic5581
    @cynic5581 Před rokem

    Thank you for the video. It’s amazing how easy it is to look over something so small and it not be until someone else lays it out for you that it all comes together. Even on a bowden setup I have I have that artifact and it was driving me nuts because the more I worked on tighter tolerances the worse it seemed to get. Now I realize (or believe so anyway) that I was actually amplifying the problem. If nothing else this video really opened my mind in considering to having a more methodical approach to problem solving.

  • @chceszbyc
    @chceszbyc Před rokem +1

    Respect man! Big work! I noticed the same when my bowden gears were worn out a bit + I used 0.05 filament. I replaced the gears, switched to 0.02 filament and the quality is back!

  • @dano7448
    @dano7448 Před rokem +3

    Awesome information! I love it! Awesome work! Love those belt clips as well! Appreciate all that you do!

  • @JustTryGambling
    @JustTryGambling Před rokem +6

    been waiting for someone to finally put in the effort to narrow down exactly what in the extruder causes this issue. You've done a great service, and if we can improve tolerances, this is the next big upgrade in 3d printing.
    Maybe an easy way to fix the tolerances in bondtech style dual gears is to machine the gears with the 5mm shaft as part of the gear instead of a separate pin that gets inserted and set screwed in. if you're using a lathe to machine the majority of these gears (like you should), this will ensure it is fully concentric and honestly this wouldn't be hard to do at all. the only tolerances you'd be worried about at that point is how the shaft fits into the micro bearings and the 3d printed housing.
    lol just got into the part of the video where you talk to bondtech and came up with the same solution.

  • @speedracer9132
    @speedracer9132 Před rokem +1

    Great video! I just put together a Prusa mk3s and have been endlessly trying to fix calibration issues and I think you just solved it for me

  • @prongATO
    @prongATO Před rokem +2

    Additionally, it’s hard work like yours that make the profession and hobby better for all of us. Your determination in solving your issue will make the lives of all of us much easier as a result, thank you.

  • @spencerhanson7808
    @spencerhanson7808 Před rokem +8

    This was amazing! Your results really show how important it is to spend the time to isolate variables in research.

  • @94Discovery
    @94Discovery Před rokem +3

    I am glad that i became a Patreon thank you for all what you bring to the 3d printing community❤

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +1

      Thank you for your support! It means a lot to me.

  • @CentaXBerlin2
    @CentaXBerlin2 Před rokem

    Thank you very much for the extensive information shown in the video! 4 days ago i printed a test cube and had awful layer variation in it. Really didn't know why, in hindsight after watching your video probably i messed something up working on my sherpa micro extruder some time ago. Watching your video just now is really more than just perfect timing.

  • @matthewpierce7717
    @matthewpierce7717 Před rokem +1

    Thank you for explaining this so well! A few months ago I tried explaining a similar theory to people on a Facebook group and they were too narrow minded to believe this was possible. When dealing with melted plastic you’re also dealing with fluid dynamics. There’s a good bit of pressure built up inside the nozzle and any variances in pressure can most certainly cause inconsistent layers. The long Bowden tube is almost like a surge tank on large hydraulic systems.

  • @gbstingley4673
    @gbstingley4673 Před rokem +3

    Wow, awesome vid. This is exactly the issue I was having with an OMG extruder. This video would have saved me days of chasing down the issue with mine. Even after finding my issue, I didn't fully understand what was going on until all of your hard work. Well done sir, well done.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +4

      This issue almost had me to put an axe in the printer a few times. Glad I found the source. Now I need to work on the solution.

    • @Waynes-Wares
      @Waynes-Wares Před rokem

      I bought an OMG extruder too, for my Ender2 Pro. I had already replaced the stock with a SeeMeCNC EZStruder, and was getting good results. I thought I would do even better with a OMG....but it was worse.

  • @NathanBuildsRobots
    @NathanBuildsRobots Před rokem +23

    I recently tested the Microswiss NG. Haven't made a video on it yet, but first prints are looking very smooth. They have a weird thing about machining everything out of billet material, but considering the difference that even a small amount of runout can cause, I think it makes sense to be so meticulous.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem +6

      Yes. I am curious to try microswiss item as well.

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots Před rokem

      @@MirageC The extruder is 2 pieces that are bolted together - the carriage plate and the extruder/heatsink. So there is probably a clean way to mount it to your printer.
      The other thing I noticed is that my v-groove wheels run much smoother on the Microswiss carriage plate. It re-uses the wheels that come with the Ender 3, but I think on the typical Ender 3 carriage plate, the 3 wheels are not perfectly in-plane with each-other, which adds a notable amount of friction, reduced stiffness, and wear.

    • @larrybowers
      @larrybowers Před rokem +3

      @@MirageC I put a Micro Swiss NG on an Ender 3 Pro and have been seeing similar issues. I all most resigned myself to not having beautiful prints that was made via the Bowden arrangement on the Ender 3. I emailed MS tech support and they mentioned the Bowden arrangement did do some 'buffering' and offered a refund. I didn't take them up on the offer and have tried to tune out the artifact the best I can.
      But this is amazing and does make sense. I've only been printing about 2 years so I'm by far no where near experienced as others.
      I would also be interested if you were to test a MS NG and see if you find a similar situation.
      Thanks and you have a new subscriber

    • @NathanBuildsRobots
      @NathanBuildsRobots Před rokem +1

      @@greatestevar I am working on a presentation about ball-bearing induced wobbles. Basically, the cheap sloppy bearings used on most v-Grove wheel machines changes the effective diameter depending on if the bearing is on-ball or off-ball. It's a simple matter of geometry.

    • @mattsmoto6422
      @mattsmoto6422 Před rokem +2

      I’m using a microswiss NG direct drive also on my ender 5 plus with linear rails, the inconsistencies still appear. The NG is geared but the actual filament gears use the same dual gear design as the normal MS DD. It’s hard to see but if you take it apart or look deep in there it’s the same gear mech that pushes filament as the normal one

  • @DEtchells
    @DEtchells Před rokem

    Wow, what an absolute tour de force of mechanical sleuthing, experimentation and analysis! Huge, huge props!!

  • @Tetsujinfr
    @Tetsujinfr Před rokem

    Wow, so much work went into this one. Congrats for your courage and patience going through this, and for sharing your path to success. Bravo!

  • @yeroca
    @yeroca Před rokem +5

    Nice video!
    There's a video on CNC kitchen where he discovered a similar problem after a long search. I think it was about 8 months ago.

  • @gabriell4031
    @gabriell4031 Před rokem +3

    everything explained in this video is great. I'm not wondering why my LGX Lite seems to have this issue also. could it be drive gear and idle hears having lots runout? since there is no grub screw there is only one thing that can cause this. I hope by working with you they improve their own product standards as well. Maybe I can test the runout on these gear and see how much they might have. GREAT WORK! All of us are behind you cheering you on! Thanks for all the great work your doing for our community of plastic pushing gear heads!

  • @robinpalmquist3679
    @robinpalmquist3679 Před 7 měsíci

    What an insanely well thought-out breakdown of a subject this complex. Keep up the amazing work!

  • @felipelaghetto5636
    @felipelaghetto5636 Před rokem

    Congrats MirageC!!! This video is amazing! Super dense and informative...loved it.

  • @medyk3D
    @medyk3D Před rokem +3

    Thanks for pushing the 3D Printing limits even further. Great dedication, this is the content I'm rooting for.

  • @NicksStuff
    @NicksStuff Před rokem +3

    Bondtech, Mitutoyo, Wera, what a feast for the discerning viewer!

  • @yakirarbel477
    @yakirarbel477 Před rokem

    This is the first video of you that I saw, and I'm must tell you that I impressed by the quality of your research and the video editing. and the thing I like the most is the logical order that you explained so good. Thank you for your video 🙏🏼

  • @TheSchane
    @TheSchane Před rokem

    still finishing the video, but WOW! You have put so much time and delivered a clear and thought provoking video. Great Work!

  • @TheRavikin
    @TheRavikin Před rokem +5

    You did very good job on that research! Narrowed it down to just one element at a time and found a problem. Hats off!
    What comes to my mind is that @MihaiDesigns found out that idler gear makes difference in patterns and created more angled idler door ofr prusa i3. Could be found in this vid -> "What I've learned about your 3D printers (and mine)". And it was a year ago.

  • @TIBL
    @TIBL Před rokem +5

    Hah! I had exactly this problem with my Wade-based designs years ago. (Indeed, with a sufficiently open extruder design, you can see the runout error by eye.) It turns out that a tight fit is critical for both extruder drivegears and also axis pulleys. This exact same effect occurs with XY drive pulleys. Cheap pulleys have a much wider bore than genuine pulleys, which is the entire secret to genuine Gates being better. (And I have done extensive experiments with 2GT pulleys driving a very high resolution encoder to quantify the error...) I have also been working on an even better solution for this for extrusion, too :)

  • @MilosevicOgnjan
    @MilosevicOgnjan Před rokem +1

    Fantastic video man, kudos to your efforts, since I know how hard it is to film and edit a video this complex. We need more videos like this in the 3d printing community - no bs, no clowning around, just straight science and experimentation. Keep up the good work.

  • @94Discovery
    @94Discovery Před rokem

    Every time i watch one of your videos my brain starts to melt ,what in depth analysis and experimentations,hat’s off.

  • @iammeobviously6815
    @iammeobviously6815 Před rokem +6

    Ender 3 v2s can never be properly tuned. It is fvcked up and the z bar is always slanted

  • @yuripolak
    @yuripolak Před rokem +3

    So, what about the proper printing proper extruder, which uses belts to push the filament? That would eliminate this kind of variation

    • @moczikgabor
      @moczikgabor Před rokem

      Exactly what I was thinking. I already wanted to try a belt based feeder as that is common in other applications, like wire confectioning and such.

  • @kimtae858
    @kimtae858 Před rokem

    Thank you so much for your exhaustive research and modeling of the physical issues. I'm always amazed how far FDM has come yet perfection is still a ways away.

  • @archetrico
    @archetrico Před rokem

    This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!
    Somebody else said exatly what i wanted to say, so I copy pasted it.

  • @X11-35-2
    @X11-35-2 Před rokem

    Wow. Somebody finished the work i was thinking about. I had sooo bad extrusion issues that i started such an experiment (worse than you& never ended) but nice to see that i was right& also that you could help the community getting better prints. So much respect to you. You gonna get my first Patreon support

  • @Bigjoe0101
    @Bigjoe0101 Před rokem +1

    I have had this issue for years. I will inspect my extruder's gears and bearings. Thank you so much for the troubleshooting!!!

  • @TheExtremeElementz
    @TheExtremeElementz Před rokem

    This was a fun video to watch, I love how you took us for a ride the entire time showing us your thought process and theory’s. Amazing job!

  • @phillifighter1337
    @phillifighter1337 Před rokem

    I was troubleshooting this issue for quite some time. I tried all sorts of things with the gears (among others) including gluing them to the shaft instead of screwing them down as i had a hunch it may be runout but nothing helped. This video finaly gave me the definitive answer. Thank you so much for that.
    Looking forward to the updated bondtech gears!

  • @sector13studios
    @sector13studios Před 5 měsíci

    This is the very best and most indepth research into an on going issue for all of us in 3d printing. I learned a lot.
    Thank you for all your hard work.

  • @HardCoil
    @HardCoil Před rokem

    That was hyper satisfying to watch. Thank you for your incredible work, and following through with Bondtech. Also nice that we can basically test our extruders by varying the flow rate on such a test print.

  • @noble7ify
    @noble7ify Před rokem

    Damn that was a very nicely explained video, it never stops to amaze me how super small tolerances and deviations can have such big impacts when they are left out of sight and out of mind but when u start looking for them they are always so simple and logical. yet a pain in the ass get around
    Keep it up with the inspiring videos MAN!

  • @artemnikitin2806
    @artemnikitin2806 Před rokem

    brother, thanks for the explanation of what I've been observing while assembling my first CW2 SB, just last night !

  • @NIGHTDREADED
    @NIGHTDREADED Před 3 měsíci

    Easily the best 3D printing video ive ever seen with a very deep analysis and testable elimination to find the root cause, you earned my sub.

  • @Win5Weekly
    @Win5Weekly Před rokem +1

    People like you are the ones who build the future one small piece at a time, whenever you get discouraged just remember you are making a positive difference. Keep up the excellent work and you will get everything you deserve.

  • @REN92106
    @REN92106 Před 4 měsíci

    This opened my eyes to a very similar problem I have with my CR-10s!! Amazing experimentation and really smart thinking. Subbed. Thanks man!

  • @flixmyswitch
    @flixmyswitch Před rokem +2

    You Sir are a master at what you do. As a video creator I can fully understand the time and massive effort you put in to making this video, you have my subscription. I look forward to viewing more of your videos. I have done a good handful of vids on my 5 plus and still working on a few more. I also enjoy coding the ESP8266 and Arduino chip, I have so much to learn. Many thanks for this video

  • @flex-ranger2
    @flex-ranger2 Před rokem

    This is one of the best comprehensive videos i've seen in a while. Really enjoyed the content. Thank You

  • @justinlentz8998
    @justinlentz8998 Před 11 měsíci +1

    Amazing video!!! The difference between bowden and direct drive became apparent to me rather recently. I am glad someone else noticed the same issue! I have always liked Bondtech extruders, but I think there are still some issues that they need to work through. I have used the BMG on many direct drive setups and have also tried the LGX light extruder, and see the same artifacts that you referred to in this video with both extruders, even though the geometry between the two are drastically different. I have recently switched to the Orbiter 2.0 manufactured by LDO and the difference is surface quality is amazing!! Not perfect, but there is a drastic improvement when compared to both the BMG and the LGX.

  • @WATCHMAKUH
    @WATCHMAKUH Před rokem

    Such an awesome video. Proves that quality is all in the details. Very impressed how you broke it down right to the source of the problem. Thank you for the enlightenment!

  • @VascoRocha
    @VascoRocha Před rokem

    This man is completely out of the box! Many thanks for your sharing and your work to improve 3d printing! You are great!

  • @JosepsGSX
    @JosepsGSX Před rokem

    Amazing. I'm out of words with this superb piece of work. I was just passing by, but I think I better stay subscribed and check carefully your old videos and the new ones to come. Thanks for sharing!

  • @SkydivingKiwi
    @SkydivingKiwi Před rokem +7

    I've designed a few 3D printers over the years.... And built other people's designs. This is the one part I could never get perfect - because of the time it would take to diagnose it! You did it, mate! This is without a doubt the best that happened to FDM 3D printing since Klipper. Epic video. Great work!

  • @paulcottingham241
    @paulcottingham241 Před rokem

    Excellent content. The solid scientific and engineering approach you use to dig down to the answers is rare, effective and greatly appreciated, You have been responsible for many very significant advances in Filament 3D printing. Thanks!!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem

      Thank you Paul. I am glad I could have a positive impact 😌

  • @solmanJapan
    @solmanJapan Před 5 měsíci

    Wow I was just hanging on your every word! I didn't even think the print quality was bad enough I needed to care but after upgrading to an e3d hemera and seeing your video... I'm honestly blown away... You should keep doing these deep dives...

  • @dano5143
    @dano5143 Před rokem +1

    Thank You thats genius. I designed based on your HEVORT a new compact machine and i use a BMG WIND all metal Extruder from Aliexpress. For my surprise my prints a very good and maybe the redesign of HEVORT helped a little. Thank you for the great work and great machine and sharing the CAD Files.

  • @Rolohaun
    @Rolohaun Před rokem +2

    Amazing video! I have always had issues with the layer stacking of direct drive! Finally someone figured it out!

  • @nickolasc4167
    @nickolasc4167 Před rokem +2

    I listened to all the hype and tried to fix what wasn't broken with my modified ender 3, I thought direct drive was the perfect way to go but now I hate my printer more than I ever did before. Your explanation is precise and makes a ton of sense. I never had an issue with print quality before using Capricorn tubing, I am going back to a Bowden tube. I like printing and making, not constantly chasing the problems created,it's counter intuitive to my process. I am very appreciative of your time and efforts in making this video, you sir are a great man. Thank you

  • @Polymaker
    @Polymaker Před rokem

    What an amazing research project! Really rigorous and well explained. Keep up the good work.

  • @Nigfis
    @Nigfis Před 6 měsíci +2

    My goodness. What an adventure that was.
    Congratulations on your style, your methods, and your willingness to share this deep dive into things only previously whispered about in the dark recesses of 3D R&D labs.
    I can now understand far more about what has disappointed me about my new Sprite Extruder Pro Kit. It produces what looks like the very same artefacts.
    Thank you.

  • @prongATO
    @prongATO Před rokem

    The most informative 3DP video I’ve ever seen, hands-down. Being an engineer, it’s like a warm fuzzy blanket of numbers :)

  • @alksmdlaks
    @alksmdlaks Před 4 měsíci

    The live simulation of layer width to filament alignment blew my mind, that is some good stuff dude. You got a follow and a like

  • @brad3378
    @brad3378 Před rokem

    As exciting as it is to watch you break new speed records, THIS is my favorite video so far and one that's likely to influence the entire industry.
    BRAVO!! 🏆🥇

  • @MrAkos2k
    @MrAkos2k Před rokem

    Thanks for the best video i've ever seen. So good information. So much time you spend on this project. So so much love in this video for 3D printing. Thanks a lot. You have a new fan. 👍🏻

  • @kiskrisztian9915
    @kiskrisztian9915 Před rokem +1

    Man I'm so glad for your video and reserch!!!! I have this problem over a year now since I upgraded my printer from bowden to direct drive I calibrated over and over everything... I have a BMG clone and I have the same ripple all of my prints. Thanks man! :D

  • @randomname4726
    @randomname4726 Před rokem

    Your video is amazing, you have saved so many of us so many hours with this video. I am constantly chasing perfect quality myself and am about to make a magnetically coupled z axis to avoid the wobbly Prusa lead screws.
    I would have been very frustrated to finish that upgrade and find it still had z issues, but now I know why so it's expected and I can try and deal with it.
    Amazing work, thank you again!

  • @EduardoSousa-fk6oy
    @EduardoSousa-fk6oy Před rokem

    simply wow, how such a small variation makes such a difference, I admire your work, in achieving the perfect print. ps congratulations on yet another excellent video, which teaches us so much with its excellently documented research thanks

  • @viesturssilins858
    @viesturssilins858 Před rokem

    How is this channel not bigger!? This content is top of the line!
    Amaizing prezention, huge amount of work and details put in. Thank you for sharing this@

  • @jarodhohl861
    @jarodhohl861 Před rokem +1

    Amazing Vid! Once I get my xy-motion system figured out, this will be a great guide on diagnosing a poor extruder.

  • @dankilmer9070
    @dankilmer9070 Před rokem

    Man, this is one of the best-looking and detailed 3d printing videos ever created. SUBSCRIBED :)

  • @sandersassen
    @sandersassen Před rokem

    One of the best 3D printing problem solving videos I've seen in a long time, great effort my friend, I applaud you!

  • @ThunderGoat85
    @ThunderGoat85 Před rokem

    Absolutely beautiful video! So much information broken down, explained and proven! Great Job!

  • @B0M0A0K
    @B0M0A0K Před 7 měsíci

    Amazing analytical work in this video. It's a joy to watch a professional it work.

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před 7 měsíci

      Glad you enjoyed it

  • @Battlewear
    @Battlewear Před rokem

    Amazing video! Loved it! Hello from Western Canada. Keep up the great work.

  • @ChrisRiley
    @ChrisRiley Před rokem

    Hey, nice work on this. I have tried to explain a lot of this so many times in videos over the years. This is the best representation of extruder effect I have ever seen. Well done!

    • @MirageC
      @MirageC  Před rokem

      Thank you Chris! I was stunt to realize how much is going on between those very few components.

  • @MarcelRobitaille
    @MarcelRobitaille Před rokem +1

    The LSD dig was very funny. Good stuff. Thanks for the deep analysis and great video also