Porsche Bore Scoring Fix And Symptoms How Much Does It Cost ???
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Porsche Bore Scoring Fix And Symptoms How Much Does It Cost ??? For Business Contact :
Nathan's Porsche Workshop
Po Box 115 Altenburg Mo 63732
nathan.youtube@yahoo.com - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Rebuilds on these are no joke, but you should most definitely try it because Caymans are appreciating, and the engines can go forever. My 996 (3.4) is at 161k, maybe scored cylinders (not confirmed), and one day I’ll rebuild it before driving it to more hundreds of thousands of miles.
Thanks for sharing. Would like to see a serious Porsche project like this. Hopefully you go for it.
Great video as usual. You give clear and concise info. Here in NZ we have a lot of guys who work on their own cars - not so many on Porsches. I love my 981 GTS and would do almost all service & repairs.
I’ve had eight 911s most of them 2001 to 2004 never had bore scoring . One of them did have a countershaft bearing failure .
1 never never start your car For a short period of time letting it go through the rich mixture process to light the catalytic converter’s off and then shut it off like moving it out of the garage parking on the street then coming back hours later to move it back in and going through the richening process after you just went through it you are washing oil off the cylinders . That’s why you see a small amount of smoke when you start these cars up. Just like if you start your mower and leave the choke on too long, you will see smoke.
Never ever put a heavy weight oil thinking you are going to fix the problem all you are doing is restricting oil flow and splatter 50 weight oil, in 20° weather is a good way to wreck your engine .
Never get on the engine until the oil temp is at operating temperature disregard, engine, temp and just go buy oil temp. And I.
As for the GT3’s, they don’t experience bore scoring because they were fitted with Nikasil cylinder sleeves from factory (mezger racing engines). Instead those need to be rebuild and re-timed every 60k or so, much like the E92 M3’s engines.
much as these cars are great to drive, the cost to own is ridiculous.
@@dangrass fair, but compared to other cars in their price range, they are definitely on the more affordable side. A lot of these 911 owners do much of the services on their own too.
The e92 M3 does not need to be rebuild every 60k at all. As long as the rod bearings are upgraded to ARP before they fail. E92 M3 V8 is very reliable after the rod bearings and actuators have been sorted
*if raced, every 60k miles. If taken care of, they can go a very long way before rebuilding. @@liamtree1250
Very interesting insight, thanks
Be sure to use alum cyl liners with nikisil coatings. Some shops use iron liners in their rebuilds, which makes your engine run hotter since iron and alum disipate heat at a different rate. Hotter temps can potentially cause head gasket issues. Read the fine print and know what you're getting. Inexpensive isn't always better.
Great video as always thanks
Great info
Spot on buddy, I am going through the same on my Boxster S 2005. I went through the same logic that if I spend 20K I am pretty much getting a new car. I went for a larger engine and made it a 3.8L from a 3.2L Waiting for it now to come back :-) I also went for an IMS Solutions upgrade with LN Rnfineering
Any updates?
Very Interesting. Would definitely watch the videos!
Im looking for another one, i think it would make great videos
@@NathansPorscheWorkshop Yep.
Go get it Nathan. Would be great content
Some one bought it , but i will look for another
Thanx
Hey thanks for making the Vid, lots of thoughts here. One can worry themselves sick over M96 & M97 engines or you can just drive the heck out of them. Have the IMS done as a 50k maintenance Item & change the oil often with an a 40 wt containing Moly as the LN engineering guys recomend. Send the used out for analysis so your informed on whats wearing or not as the bore material will show up like a bride to her wedding if present in the oil, heck cut the filter open and it will be there. I happen to have a 97 986, w/ 64k & a 2001 996 w/32k and shift at 5 or 6k constantly. Both of course tend to run way to hot so will be doing CFS racing radiator upgrade on the Boxter to see if this solves the problem. After purchasing these cars I watched IMS & Bore Scoring Videos until I could not sleep then just said what the heck and drive the hell out of them responsibly. Now of course Ill blow both up after sharing my thoughts. thanks again and I will subscribe.
Well said!
One has to remember that Porsche used a process they developed called Lokasil. Unfortunately due to some sort of environmental concern they had to change the process in the early 2000s. In my opinion none of the m96 and m97 were any good after the change.
They can be good if the car is driven properly and serviced twice as often as Porsche say to.
By driven properly that means not revving it until the oil temperature is up (3 miles or so) and not slogging the motor by letting the revs drop down below 2000.
So that really means go for an already re built car or buy a scored bore car and send the block away.
Avoid those perfect looking low mileage cars with the full Porsche history because Porsche don't correct their own problems.
I appreciate that this video was mainly about the economics of doing an engine swap/rebuild, but the initial discussion about bore scoring was a horrendous rehash of all the Internet misinformation and confusion about the topic. Please just ignore that and do some research yourself if you are getting into this.
Just stop and think about what was said. He basically blamed bore scoring on the fact that it's a flat engine. There are any number of flat engines, including many 911 engines that do not have any consistent record of bore scoring. It is way more complex, and less widespread, than this video indicates.
The most common bore scoring happens on the 3.8 litre M97 engine in the 997.1, and you would be well advised to only have one of those if it has Nikasil coated liners, certainly in cylinders 4,5&6. If it hasn't, budget for the cost of a rebuild to include Nikasil liners. You've then got an absolutely brilliant car.
If it's been rebuilt with standard parts, chances are it will still need another rebuild.
The smaller capacity engines (Boxster Cayman and 3.6 Carrera) clearly do also get it, but it is certainly less common than in the 3.8.
Bear in mind that ANY engine can suffer bore scoring if it is poorly maintained and or revved often when cold.
DO IT!
Kinda like the M5
👍
Also not warming the engine up enough before you feed it the onions.
What machine shops do you reccomend for the reseeve job?
I had an 83 944 that got hit and totaled. I got $13,000 for that car plus savings and had a budget of about $17,000 for a new car. Idk if it’s covid or what or all porsches in general even 1st Gen boxsters just shot up in price. People wanted $30,000 for cars with rotted tires and fading clear coat. And with the whole IMS stuff, all the stuff you mentioned, taking the risk with bore scoring, it honestly just turned me off from caymans all together. For upper 20s to mid 30s I’d rather just find a 997. I ended up finding a gorgeous 86 944 that I couldn’t pass up. Just my .02 for mid teens, you guys can find excellent condition lower mileage transaxle porsches. Not everyones cup of tea, but for me personally, I’d make the same decision over again.
COVID pricing. Porsche started going up about a year ago. You wouldn’t have found a 997 for 20s-mid 30s. Congrats on the 86 944. I’ve always liked 944s.
@@K1dPhresh1 Thanks!
Did i mis hear , where in the $20,000 refited cayman did you include the cost of labor ?
997.1 NB guy here!! Just sub'd
You can expect bore scoring too
@@Jack-russell103 😁
@@Jack-russell103 possibly but I'm a tech so no sweat lol
If it has has sport steering wheel, PASM, Sport Chrono and Bose, go for it!
A substandard design of what could be a great base. The bean counters will have cost infinitely more to the reputation of Porsche than they ever would have saved in production. Countless higher performing engines make more hP per litre of displacement for longer with far fewer problems.
mind blowing that a company that sells expensive cars and has industry-leading margins cheaps-out on something as basic as cylinder wall coating. Then there's the IMS bearing issue. The problem here is that you can't really fix fundamental engineering issues...they will recur. Brilliantly designed cars with simply awful engineering. Much as I'd like to own one of these, this is not acceptable.
Į have 997 3.8, im having IT rebuilt with a 4L , its gonna rock when done..NOT cheap
When they cheated, they were broke and trying to stay alive
2.7 base seem to be immune.
An engine rebuild on a 12G-17G 911, Boxster or Cayman sounds totally worth it if you want to keep it.
like he says, if you buy a cheap one it "probably" needs a whole bunch of other stuff.
does bore scoring occur on a MA1 engines? Especially 2.9 from cayman
They are not known for it due to the hard aluminum (alusil) closed deck block vs the previous design with cast in (lokasil) liners and an open deck. The bores don't get out of round and the pistons are forged also. The only 9a1 engine that I've heard of getting bore score was a 3.8 L that was driven to soon (not warmed up enough) in cold weather conditions and it was only one cylinder that was affected. Just got to drive easy enough till the oil and engine internals are up to temperature.
I really don't think that the type of oil and how much in the engine, is the primary cause of the problem. I have heard that the "Base" Boxsters don't have the problem because the pistons are made of a different alloy.
The 2.5 engines had a different Rod/stroke which mean less side loading on the piston skirt.
I had my 996 rebuilt from a prominent builder off eBay took 11 months lasted 11 months 1700 miles . They are blaming their mechanic? Said it’s not their fault ? I bought motor off them not their mechanic. I’m putting the builders name out if they don’t fix the problem
With the IMS and bore scoring affecting the model years I can afford and want. And with the 'cheaper' models approaching 25-30k.
I gotta also look at comparing to a new modern car with warranty. Many much cheaper new sports cars offer comparable (or better) performance with no worries of potential large $ outlays.
But of course they will depreciate and the Porsche will probably hold or increase in value....
sigh.
Go with your mind not your heart. Do a Porsche track day or hire one. Then if you like your partner, buy a reliable car.
Which modern cars offer comparable performance?
@@PointNemo9 Toyota Supra and it's BMW brother for 2. The new Nissan Z, the Subaru/Toyota BRZ bromance, etc
For straight line you can pick any of many family sedans that are faster.
@mikeb1039 I thought Supras and the Nissan Z are far more expensive than even the 987.2? Maybe the market is different in the US, but in the UK, 25,000-30,000 USD would get an immaculate condition 987.2 base model.
I don't think that the GT86/BRZ offers comparable performance.
Don't buy Them if ya Can't Handle typical Shop Prices in the Thousands. They need fluids Love and understanding and Like to be Driven Semi Hard. beware of low mileage examples applies here.
So then you have a nice sorted PORSCHE for the price of a Camry. Seems like a no brainer.
Nope. Maybe and that’s a big maybe on a good looking 997.1, but ok - the engines fixed but then all the other things start to go wrong. Moneypits. Lease or even hire a one, get it out your system then go but a reliable useable daily. My bore scored 997.1 went back to the dealer for a refund. Most Porsche engines need a rebuild after 60k anyway. They are high performance cars after all. You have been warned!
20k and it would be sorted for 7 years
To much hot air and not enough work.
Wow! If you where talking about Hyundai I could understand...BUT you are talking PORSCHE a "Primere" Automobile Brand....There are No Excuses from the "No Substitute" Brand...👎
Opinion piece. Waste of time.