Don't you think, for example, that in this video there appears to be a contradiction with some of your previous videos? I'm thinking of the ones saying that only a small part of the side plate is involved in the cut, and that cleaning the gullet is not very important. If we abandon the use of Hexa files, the whole system does not make much sense. Hexa files and grinding wheels, like traditional round-profile files and grinding wheels, form a system where, when sharpening one chain, the change from file to grinder or vice versa does not radically alter the cutter geometry. If you just want to compare the effect of Hexa's geometry on cutting, then you should sharpen Rapid Hexa chain with a Rapid Super wheel. Settings: 60° cutting angle, 25° top plate (sharpening) angle. If you are sharpening with a regular (round) wheel, if you lower the wheel low enough, the top plate and that important section of the side plate will still be sharpened with the flat part of the wheel, just as with Hexa. If you want to be more sure of this you can use a wheel with a smaller profile radius, e.g 3.2 mm thick Tecomec for 3/8. And if you're looking to speed up your first cuts with a freshly sharpened chain, set the cutting angle to 45°. According to old papers, increasing the cutting angle from 45° to 60° increases the energy required for cutting by about 35%. Reducing the kerf width generally also reduces the energy required for cutting, as less material is removed. But, in my experience, we also pay for this with faster dulling.
I have a Stihl USG grinder and a Hexa wheel. So it's not a problem for me. I also have wheels for the Tecomec. I did time based cutting on the same log, semi chisel, full chisel, and Hexa. HEXA won hands down. I agree ony with Stihl on the 10% faster improvement. We can do even laboratory tests, but the density and fibre structure can change even in the same log. When I was testing in a laboratory on some ASTM test, we had to test 7 samples, discard the lowest reading and highest reading, and average the other 5 samples. What standard or method can we use to test a chain for cutting efficiency.
In all of my videos I have always said Hexa is better in our wood here in Australia. I can see you are a Oregon fan, I am a Stihl fan. So it's a matter of opinion. I won't change and you won't change. Horses for courses lol
On the oregon grinder, if set the head angle to 60 deg as used for grinding, then turn the grind wheel back to front, you can hold the dressing block flat. Then turn the wheel back, that will give you the required 30 degrees on the wheel edge. Leaving the head angle at 60 degrees should give you the reqd profile for hexa.
czcams.com/video/FFp3K3s8rx8/video.htmlsi=gEagbLTNsz7QPX-x The above test was done 3 months ago, we used the same log approx 10 inches diameter, the test log was one month old red ironbark. Test results as follows. Saw used MS311 20 inch bar. 1) Stihl Semi Chisel 8.7 sec 2) Stihl Semi Chisel Hexa grind 8.4 sec 3) Stihl Full chisel 7.5 sec 4) Hurricane Full chisel Hexa grind 7.4 sec 5) Stihl Hexa 6.7sec Hexa at 6.7 seconds, that's 12% faster than Stihls RS Full chisel, that was 7.5 seconds. All these chains were brand new and rakers were checked for uniform height .065mm HEXA was the Winner by 12% and 30% faster than semi chisel. 30% is a game changer for me. Results may be different for different species of wood. Not all wood cuts the same. Red Ironbark has a Janka rating of 14Kn at approx 12% moisture. I measured the moisture content and it has an average of 18% moisturevb
@SawChainTheories Because Hurricane Full chisel had standard kerf width of 4.5mm Then makes you wonder why all chains 3/8 are not narrow kerf because it cuts better with 4.1mm tooth width and overall small left to right smaller kerf
@SawChainTheories I think it's the kerf mainly and the 1mm pointy working corner, down the side plate pointy working corner. Husqvarna x cut c85 same narrow keft 4.1mm tooth with and 40° top plate cutting angle with 1.5mm point down on the side plate. I have noticed many full chisel chains have this little point and that seems to make a huge difference to cutting performance.
What if some idiot bought 2 new Hexa chains and filed one round, then used them both till they are about 70% done. After doing that and having multiple attempts at recording their cutting speed, the only conclusion they could come to was that it cuts slightly faster when round filed than with the hexa file and there’s no noticeable difference in durability. What’s that mean for the shape? The file is an excellent invention and the majority of people will be better using it rather than a round file.
The test clearly show that Hexa out performed the other Stihl chains in red ironbark. I can't say for all timber what the outcome maybe. But the wood I am cutting it works best. Overseas who knows what works best. You are in Queensland what is the wood you cut and what is the hardness of it. I cut grey box 15Kn on Janka scale and red ironbark is 14Kn janka scale. All I did was to be fair and compare various chains under same conditions same log. Believe what you will.
@@ChainsawUsersanything I've ever seen hexa is faster. Apparently though it may be a down grade in felling. You tube channel Guilty of treeson did a vid using hexa and he commented that a Humboldt was even harder to cut than with round. Square being the easiest.
I'm in NSW most of it is stringy, red iron bark, yellow and grey box. No arguments, the Hexa chain out the box is faster than RS but having filed 1 round, it's not because of the shape. It's the kerf
@SawChainTheories you can't get a patent for just a narrow kerf. It's the first 1mm on the side plate that pointed working corner that does the trick. So why don't they just sell narrow kerf chains and abandon the standard width chain
@@ChainsawUsers The file dictated the shape of the tooth and half the patent is for a round file with a flat bottom that rides on a shelve in the gullet. I would say they went with the hexagonal idea because it's more stable. The description in the patent explaining the purpose of the invention is all about the benefit of the file providing a more consistent sharpening result for more accurate sharpening. The file is the invention. Narrow left is great for some jobs but it's terrible for others. Big diameter wood on uneven ground is horrible with NK
BLOG/ALL/BEST CHAINSAW CHAINS RANKED BY USER RECOMMENDATIONS AND PERFORMANCE Best Chainsaw Chains Ranked by User Recommendations and Performance ALL - 11 MIN READ April 25, 2024 1. Stihl Chains Stihl chains are frequently cited as the top choice among users for their superior quality and durability. They are particularly noted for their aggressive cut and minimal stretch during initial use. Stihl chains hold an edge longer but tend to be more expensive, which might be a consideration for non-commercial users. Popular models include the Stihl RS Pro and the specialized 25" chain for larger tasks. 2. Oregon Chains Oregon is another highly recommended brand, favored for its balance between cost and performance. Users appreciate the Oregon EXL chain for its availability and affordability, even though it may require more frequent sharpening compared to Stihl. Oregon's broad accessibility in stores like Home Depot makes it a go-to choice for casual and semi-professional users alike. 3. Husqvarna Chains While not as commonly discussed as Stihl or Oregon, Husqvarna chains are still a top pick for many users, especially those who use Husqvarna saws. The Husqvarna C85/83 chains are mentioned for their robustness, suitable for heavier and more frequent cutting tasks. In sum, while all three brands offer quality chains, the choice between them often comes down to personal preference, specific saw compatibility, and the type of wood you'll be cutting. Stihl leads with the best performance and durability, Oregon offers great value and decent performance for most users, and Husqvarna stands out for those already invested in their ecosystem of tools.
The gullet has no effect on cutting whatsoever, all the cutting is done on the top plate trailing edge and the working corner of the side plate. The Gullet is simply the bottom of the tooth. People been watching that Hillbilly on CZcams to much.
Don't you think, for example, that in this video there appears to be a contradiction with some of your previous videos? I'm thinking of the ones saying that only a small part of the side plate is involved in the cut, and that cleaning the gullet is not very important.
If we abandon the use of Hexa files, the whole system does not make much sense. Hexa files and grinding wheels, like traditional round-profile files and grinding wheels, form a system where, when sharpening one chain, the change from file to grinder or vice versa does not radically alter the cutter geometry.
If you just want to compare the effect of Hexa's geometry on cutting, then you should sharpen Rapid Hexa chain with a Rapid Super wheel. Settings: 60° cutting angle, 25° top plate (sharpening) angle.
If you are sharpening with a regular (round) wheel, if you lower the wheel low enough, the top plate and that important section of the side plate will still be sharpened with the flat part of the wheel, just as with Hexa. If you want to be more sure of this you can use a wheel with a smaller profile radius, e.g 3.2 mm thick Tecomec for 3/8.
And if you're looking to speed up your first cuts with a freshly sharpened chain, set the cutting angle to 45°. According to old papers, increasing the cutting angle from 45° to 60° increases the energy required for cutting by about 35%.
Reducing the kerf width generally also reduces the energy required for cutting, as less material is removed.
But, in my experience, we also pay for this with faster dulling.
I have a Stihl USG grinder and a Hexa wheel. So it's not a problem for me. I also have wheels for the Tecomec. I did time based cutting on the same log, semi chisel, full chisel, and Hexa. HEXA won hands down.
I agree ony with Stihl on the 10% faster improvement.
We can do even laboratory tests, but the density and fibre structure can change even in the same log.
When I was testing in a laboratory on some ASTM test, we had to test 7 samples, discard the lowest reading and highest reading, and average the other 5 samples.
What standard or method can we use to test a chain for cutting efficiency.
Swings and Round Abouts.
In all of my videos I have always said Hexa is better in our wood here in Australia. I can see you are a Oregon fan, I am a Stihl fan. So it's a matter of opinion. I won't change and you won't change. Horses for courses lol
On the oregon grinder, if set the head angle to 60 deg as used for grinding, then turn the grind wheel back to front, you can hold the dressing block flat. Then turn the wheel back, that will give you the required 30 degrees on the wheel edge.
Leaving the head angle at 60 degrees should give you the reqd profile for hexa.
Looks like the rakers have different geometry aswell
Rakers are the same .65mm at new
I Checked as I said height difference is .65mm
👍might have to try a loop but I do get alot of granitic sand on the logs
Please explain different geometry differences
I think he means how far left and right it is.
czcams.com/video/FFp3K3s8rx8/video.htmlsi=gEagbLTNsz7QPX-x
The above test was done 3 months ago, we used the same log approx 10 inches diameter, the test log was one month old red ironbark.
Test results as follows.
Saw used MS311 20 inch bar.
1) Stihl Semi Chisel 8.7 sec
2) Stihl Semi Chisel Hexa grind 8.4 sec
3) Stihl Full chisel 7.5 sec
4) Hurricane Full chisel Hexa grind 7.4 sec
5) Stihl Hexa 6.7sec
Hexa at 6.7 seconds, that's 12% faster than Stihls RS Full chisel, that was 7.5 seconds.
All these chains were brand new and rakers were checked for uniform height .065mm
HEXA was the Winner by 12% and 30% faster than semi chisel.
30% is a game changer for me.
Results may be different for different species of wood.
Not all wood cuts the same.
Red Ironbark has a Janka rating of 14Kn at approx 12% moisture.
I measured the moisture content and it has an average of 18% moisturevb
If the Hexa shape is the difference, then why is hurricane full chisel Hexa 11% slower than Hexa?
@SawChainTheories Because Hurricane Full chisel had standard kerf width of 4.5mm
Then makes you wonder why all chains 3/8 are not narrow kerf because it cuts better with 4.1mm tooth width and overall small left to right smaller kerf
@SawChainTheories the straight section top plate cutting angle only 1mm or so really does all the work the rest of the side plate severs some fibers
@@ChainsawUsers so Hexa cuts faster because of the kerf?
@SawChainTheories I think it's the kerf mainly and the 1mm pointy working corner, down the side plate pointy working corner.
Husqvarna x cut c85 same narrow keft 4.1mm tooth with and 40° top plate cutting angle with 1.5mm point down on the side plate. I have noticed many full chisel chains have this little point and that seems to make a huge difference to cutting performance.
What if some idiot bought 2 new Hexa chains and filed one round, then used them both till they are about 70% done. After doing that and having multiple attempts at recording their cutting speed, the only conclusion they could come to was that it cuts slightly faster when round filed than with the hexa file and there’s no noticeable difference in durability. What’s that mean for the shape?
The file is an excellent invention and the majority of people will be better using it rather than a round file.
The test clearly show that Hexa out performed the other Stihl chains in red ironbark. I can't say for all timber what the outcome maybe.
But the wood I am cutting it works best. Overseas who knows what works best. You are in Queensland what is the wood you cut and what is the hardness of it. I cut grey box 15Kn on Janka scale and red ironbark is 14Kn janka scale.
All I did was to be fair and compare various chains under same conditions same log.
Believe what you will.
@@ChainsawUsersanything I've ever seen hexa is faster. Apparently though it may be a down grade in felling. You tube channel Guilty of treeson did a vid using hexa and he commented that a Humboldt was even harder to cut than with round. Square being the easiest.
I'm in NSW most of it is stringy, red iron bark, yellow and grey box.
No arguments, the Hexa chain out the box is faster than RS but having filed 1 round, it's not because of the shape. It's the kerf
@SawChainTheories you can't get a patent for just a narrow kerf. It's the first 1mm on the side plate that pointed working corner that does the trick.
So why don't they just sell narrow kerf chains and abandon the standard width chain
@@ChainsawUsers The file dictated the shape of the tooth and half the patent is for a round file with a flat bottom that rides on a shelve in the gullet. I would say they went with the hexagonal idea because it's more stable.
The description in the patent explaining the purpose of the invention is all about the benefit of the file providing a more consistent sharpening result for more accurate sharpening.
The file is the invention.
Narrow left is great for some jobs but it's terrible for others. Big diameter wood on uneven ground is horrible with NK
BLOG/ALL/BEST CHAINSAW CHAINS RANKED BY USER RECOMMENDATIONS AND PERFORMANCE
Best Chainsaw Chains Ranked by User Recommendations and Performance
ALL - 11 MIN READ
April 25, 2024
1. Stihl Chains
Stihl chains are frequently cited as the top choice among users for their superior quality and durability. They are particularly noted for their aggressive cut and minimal stretch during initial use. Stihl chains hold an edge longer but tend to be more expensive, which might be a consideration for non-commercial users. Popular models include the Stihl RS Pro and the specialized 25" chain for larger tasks.
2. Oregon Chains
Oregon is another highly recommended brand, favored for its balance between cost and performance. Users appreciate the Oregon EXL chain for its availability and affordability, even though it may require more frequent sharpening compared to Stihl. Oregon's broad accessibility in stores like Home Depot makes it a go-to choice for casual and semi-professional users alike.
3. Husqvarna Chains
While not as commonly discussed as Stihl or Oregon, Husqvarna chains are still a top pick for many users, especially those who use Husqvarna saws. The Husqvarna C85/83 chains are mentioned for their robustness, suitable for heavier and more frequent cutting tasks.
In sum, while all three brands offer quality chains, the choice between them often comes down to personal preference, specific saw compatibility, and the type of wood you'll be cutting. Stihl leads with the best performance and durability, Oregon offers great value and decent performance for most users, and Husqvarna stands out for those already invested in their ecosystem of tools.
Can't you get the same effect by using a somewhat smaller file to put a deeper gullet on a conventional full chisel chain?
The gullet has no effect on cutting whatsoever, all the cutting is done on the top plate trailing edge and the working corner of the side plate.
The Gullet is simply the bottom of the tooth. People been watching that Hillbilly on CZcams to much.