As an electrician and a guitar player, I can fully confirm Phillips head screwdriver can be used as a hammer. Also a chisel, door stop and if it’s bouncy enough you can hop it off the ground and make it jump back into your hand.
@@gorgami29 I keep an eye on gear4music all the time, just don’t care for the style of what they are building now, they had some back in the day that were great at least on paper
For most of my guitar-playing life, I really enjoyed playing, but never really felt like I was finding my voice. Once I was turned on to baritones, I felt like I had finally found it, and I've never been so creatively inspired.
Honestly I’ve just experienced this. Tried out a Bass VI, and idk what it was that clicked but I was improvising riffs I’ve never played around with before. It’s a great feeling
I felt similarly with drums had struggled to barely learn anything on guitar for so long then started playing drums and it all juat clicked and then I just started thinking of guitar similar to drums and got better at that too but drums are just the highest level of therapy for me its nice when you find your thing :b but yeah I enjoy playing bass aswell has a more percussive feel so I figured a baritone would be similar to kinda mix in some slap with some guitar feel still mostly because of tosin abasi not that he uses a baritone that ive seen
This is actually a really good vid, helps folks better understand what drawbacks there are. Though, funnily enough, I've actually seen a number of folks use baritones because of that first point, the higher tunings. In editing, you showed Buckethead, who uses a 27-28" baritone (can't remember the exact specs) and yet, I don't know of any songs he's made that are tuned lower than Eb standard. Similarly, Trogly has mentioned liking the increased string tension using baritones in E standard provides as well, and an old friend of mine, uses a 30" baritone, only tuned to drop A, which you'd usually expect to be seeing on like, ~26.5" guitars, give or take an inch
I think Buckethead has made a few songs in Bb standard (I know Final Wars is in that tuning but there are probably some more out there considering that guy has like 300 albums)
really refreshing to see someone who's able to point out why something he loves isn't for everyone. I respect the hell outta that. when I was getting into guitar years ago, Korn was the biggest thing in heavy music, and 7 strings were catching on. Meshuggah and baroness baritones were nowhere on my radar yet, but as I got more into playing, I just decided that for all the ridiculous amount of options out there, I prefer sticking to six strings and either standard tuning or maybe half step or step down. Generally half step. While I adore Dime's guitars, the ML shape in general, Vs, and of late, even the classic Gibson LPs and SGs that I've never really felt drawn to, I realized a couple years ago that I'm just a strat guy at heart, complete with traditional single coils, and still love playing ballsy, heavy stuff. 🤷♂️
For me, 26.5 or 27” scale 6s are perfect. I play 7s mostly, but my 6s are in drop b. So that extra little bit of scale past 25.5 is perfect even if u still want to play leads in drop b. Or drop A even. Now going as low as 8 string tuning, In f# or lower, I’d prob look into something like Ray has or just get an 8 that way you can hit 2 birds with one stone.
I do disagree with the “baritone guitars are very limiting/limited in their capabilities” statement though. A baritone could essentially do anything a normal, standard scale 6 string could do. Baritone guitars also come in 7 and 8 strings, meaning you can absolutely shred like Animals As Leaders, ERRA, etc. A guitar isn’t limited by its scale length, so that’s one thing I’d avoid implying as that could wrongly sway someone away from a baritone they might love! Still great comments on this topic!
I think if a person likes the heavy tone of low tunnings get a baritone. Better to have a baritone than to have to downtune and go to a luthier to set your guitar up for low tunnings.....
Uuuuhhh. But if you meet the #1 category (ie use standard tunings and such) the tension on the strings of a baritone tuned to standard would be insanely tight. Perhaps too tight to be effective. Is he wrong about that downside?
*25.5”scale, 6-string* is the most versatile for me. From E-standard to B-standard, it can nail them all with the right strings/setup (Drop-A seems like the low-limit). Best 💥 for your 💵 if your playing-styles fall in this tuning-range (anything lower, get a baritone). Stay frosty, Ray 🤘🏼
??? @Ray, I always see people say this exact thing (see comment above ☝🏻) Can you show us how to setup a 25.5” with the “right” strings to let us see how to get a guitar that can drop lower? I’ve heard different responses as to what the “right” strings are and nobody ever shows how to set the action for that either. It would be a helpful vid if you could demo both as a follow up to this vid + show us what people typically do wrong (like trying to use the “wrong” strings or setting the action wrong) so we can see the difference. You’re probably the best guy to show us how to convert a 25.5” to drop lower. It’s probably better for most people than buying a baritone. I’d also love for you to make a vid that shows how you physical play differently when you’re using baritones. Riff playing on a regular guitar looks pretty different - seems like you’re positioning your fingers differently on the longer scale. A cool lesson or two to get people started would be great. This playing style also may not be for everyone. It looks like you have to learn to stretch your fingers farther and/or move them faster to cover the longer distance lol. Thanks Ray!
@@MashaT22 you can't get your guitar properly intonated all the way up the neck if you tune lower than your scale length allows. Even if your saddle can move back there's still a set distance from the nut to 12th fret. Check out The Bunn's vids for all of the niche answers on baritones.
@@HansyPants184 Yes you can with the proper string gauge. Bunn's channel is exclusively for baritone. He's not going to tell you what string gauge to use on standard scale lenthed guitars. He uses baritones not only for down tuning but to have the most clarity while tuned down. He's not a fan of bridge cable sized strings lol.
@@EXSENTRIX That's not true. I've got a 26.5" 7 string that I ran in G standard for a while with a 74 on the low string. The string tension was always fine. That's the easy one to solve with a thicker string but you have to pick and choose where your notes will be in tune. It's fine if you're only playing the first 5 frets but you can only get some not all of your frets properly intonated properly up the length of the neck. G at 12 was physically impossible to get perfectly intonated without a longer scale length. You can get close to intonating it properly but you can't get down that low without sacrificing some of your neck having improper intonation on your lowest string. Try it out and let me know how it goes.
I love my baritone and I play everything with it, blues, rock heavy stuff... and also play solos with this wonderful instrument. I just love the tones and a baritone is always inspiring me. It is just a matter of taste if you like it or not. There are so many options to play guitars. Don't stop trying out other ways, maybe you find something really wonderful that makes you happy.
Real nice summation of the pros & cons of baritones! Buckethead is is 6’6” w enormous hands & long tarantula fingers, so his baritone Sig GLP fits him perfectly.
I use 7 strings in drop A I've set up my HX stomp with a pitch shifter so I never have to change the string tunings. All drop tunings, and all standard tunings are there
I use my 24 3/4" LTD EC for drop A with the D'Addario light baritone strings. It's perfect. D'Addario medium baritone strings for standard A and drop G. Zero intonation issues Lol!
@@EXSENTRIX mine is a Schecter KM7 MKIII artist (26.5" scale) I've used daddario on and off but I seem to always go back to elixir (9s with a .62 for the low string). Daddario are great
I think baritones are also very different to play than 8 strings. Easier in some ways (less to keep track of in terms of what string you're hitting), but harder in others (you really gotta stretch those fingers to hit the frets you want!).
Instead of getting a baritone, I just got a drop pedal. I’m also not in a band or performing live music. I just have in my room. my drop pedal is plenty for me.
Most 8 strings are also baritones. By necessity. The metal baritone thing is kind of an offshoot from the 8/9 string thing nowadays, where people have realized they don't really need the range at all. I have an 8, but I have always had and always loved pure baritones. And honestly I may love it more
@@abdullahkuzhan7247I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the fact a 8 string is basically a baritone because they usually have a 27” or 28” scale which is, by definition, a baritone scale length
I recently got into a Gretsch baritone. Since 7 strings weren’t for me. Much like your opinion. Totally agree that it is definitely for a specific sound. Especially with the low output pickups I found that it sounds good with fuzz and overdrive to over saturate and tighten the sound all at the same time. Then have a hard gate on to help tighten further and get a more modern tone out of it. Takes some tweaking and getting used to but definitely worth it. I found that my schecter that’s 24.75 is best for e flat and drop C# Got an Ibanez rgd that’s 26.5 for drop C And the Gretsch 29.75 for drop G but I want to go to F. Because of your video on it.
Baritone layered with standard = pure awesome. Deffinately more a riff machine like you said but by eck when you nail a solo on one they sound frickin sweeeeeeet :)
This is actually really informative and points out everything most people won’t think about before actually handling one. If you’re buying guitars online and not actually handling them before playing, you can be very surprised when picking one up compared to a 25.5 or 24.75 scale. They do play well but they’re not for everyone as he said.
To each their own, but I love my 27" and 26-28" in standard. It sounds brighter and clearer and just better. For D standard, I have 28 5/8" and 29 3/4". I know most people don't like feel of them. Years ago, I went down the "how low can I go road," and sought out the longest scale guitars I could find at the time, then gradually tuned them back up. Everything just sounds so much more articulate to me with longer scales.
Another baritone player here, would definitely agree with the somewhat limiting statement. I love my baritone and the sound I've developed using it, but i definitely did have to change the way I write and play a little bit. For the better in the end I think but there were definitely adjustments that needed to be made
Something that keeps me away from them is my use of a lead 7 string player. Mainly because of the fact that I started on extended range instruments with a cheap 25.5” scale length instrument. Baratones look sick and I want one but as a lead guitarist fair enough, not going to use it that much. Also 30” is the scale of 3/4 basses so it’s huge
I'm a studio musician, and I've been looking at rhythm guitar tools to get a real beefy sound. I don't play live so I'm very interested in the baritone guitar as a studio tool. Thanks for this video.
After an 18 month pre order wait, I finally got my ESP LTD M1007B ET and I absolutely love it! It's a 7 string with a 26.5" scale, so it's somewhere between a standard baritone and a regular scale. So far I play it in drop A standard (standard but with the low string dropped a full step), no issues whatsoever with string tension.
I found the sweet spot with Ibanez. Whether you buy the non iron label or the new iron label, they have a 28 scale length. My 9 string is for basically anything where I want to go lower than standard 8 tunings along with dialing in tone across a 9 string pickup which does bring clarity into the mix. The only struggle I have is I’m a huge barre chord player/finger picker as well and you can tune a baritone to get partials but it limits that aspect. And you get to get away with lower tunings with thinner strings so you don’t muddy up your tone. To be honest, I’ve always played and catered my technique to play with loose strings. So even with 28” I only need an .80 or 85 to play in D1 without needing a drop pedal. And then we got people like Joshua Travis who play A0 with dental floss and his riffs/tone are absolutely killer.
I bought a PRS 277 baritone about 3 years ago. Ive been playing guitar for 30 years and had never even heard of a baritone until 3 years. My wife’s friend’s husband had one when I met them one day. I had to have one and a week later I did. I love it. I bought a 7 string Ibanez 10 years ago but as you said I prefer 6 strings. My brain has been trained to see 6 strings.😂
I already ordered my first Baritone guitar and I am so excited on writing some tasty, low sweet rythms. it is gonna get my creativity to go to places I have not gone to before :D I May get a 7 string later to acompany it for more Lead stuff ;)
I'd love to hear an actual reason why people think baritones aren't suited to lead playing. I play lead lines on basses with no problem and they have longer scales still and bigger strings. Baritones solve the problems that a lot of us face trying to use conventional scale lengths for low tunings. 1) Shorter scales have less harmonic overtones. When you take the tension out of the strings this is even more pronounced. The more tension on the strings the more you will hear harmonic overtones and the easier you will be able to play harmonics, both natural and artificial. I'm not saying you CAN'T play harmonics on shorter scaled down tuned guitars, just that you're going to hear many, many, many more "clunks" on strokes where you want to hear a squeal. Not opinion, just physics. 2) Lower tension leads to physical problems for your guitar. Changing from E standard to like B standard cuts the tension on the neck in half using the same string gauge. So you have to adjust the neck and deal with floppy strings that won't reliably play in tune, or go up to heavier gauges which necessitate alteration to bridge and nut and that's just assuming you even have enough adjustment at the bridge to intonate. There's a great chance that you won't, especially with a TuneOMatic type bridge which already has less adjustment length than, say, fender your bridge saddles and their descendants. It's a god damn hassle AT BEST. 3) String gauges. This is a personal opinion, but I hate playing guitars with heavy gauge strings. I come from a classical background so I really favor a fretboard with some real estate and I don't want my guitar to feel cramped and constantly be running into the other strings while I'm trying to play lead lines. My first electric was a mustang and I fought that thing for years because I was accustomed to a flat radius classical where there was room between the strings. When I got my first strat, which was a 62RI, even though it has a 7.5" vintage radius, it was like freedom for my fingers. They finally had enough board to work with. I play 10s on electrics and anything bigger than that, I like the extra tension but it starts getting cramped again and that's a deal breaker. I can deal with it on bass because there's still plenty of room. On guitar, the heavier the strings the more real estate I need on the fretboard. You can't change that on a guitar you already have. 4)I have no interest in extra strings unless they're coursed. I don't want to relearn how to play, relearn chord shapes for the extra string(s), learn to play tuned to 7ths, etc. I just want a guitar with enough room on the board to play and enough tension on the strings to keep it from sounding like someone farting through my amp, or worse yet, post Pride and Glory Zakk Wylde. 😤 Baritone seems to me to be the simplest answer. On top of all that, a baritone gives you plenty of room between the frets in the upper range. More wails, less tink tink tink like trying to play high up on a Paul or other sub 25" scale guitar. I love Les Paul types because they tend to be beautiful, and they retain an aesthetic that brings to mind the classical strings - violin, viola, cello and double bass. Coming from that background, I love that. But I'm with Les Paul himself in acknowledging the faults with such a design that kneecap his signature model from being a better player, that Gibson refused to address throughout his lifetime and to this day. Longer scale length, better ergonomics, neck through(when available) all make better playing guitars unless your size is a limiting factor. If your hands are small enough, knock yourself out, there are thousands of great choices available for you. If you're like me, and I'm only 5'10" 170lbs but with hands that need Xl or XXL gloves to keep from cutting off circulation, you appreciate more room, ESPECIALLY when it's time to lay down lead lines.
Baritones are also great for guitarists who don't wanna drop extra money on a bass guitar. A lot of times you think you're hearing a bass in songs, it is just a baritone. One popular example is "I miss you" by blink. In the video hes playing a stand up, but on the record mark played a baritone guitar. Baritones are something I would very much like to play with in alternate tunings just to see what it does for creativity. I think what baritones are best for is a writing tool that can do a few specific things really really well but a lot of that has more to do with them not being as popular and people just therefore not experimenting as much with them to figure out what else can be done with them besides just drop tunings. It would be cool to see what kind of thumping you could get out of that baby.
Thanks for the honest review. It is great that you are doing a reality check. As a metal guy who likes comedy love how quick to smile you are. Makes you more believable and ultimately cool. Dont forget that the surf genre was built on these things back in the 50s and early 60s. As a rhythm guitarists who loves the sludge metal riffs you have me sold. Thanks again!!!
1st and foremost exceptional video and channel… I dig your riffing and the force is strong with you…!!! As a Die Hard Metal Head/veteran - Metal/industrial Vocalist I’d collab with you in a heart beat or share a stage without hesitation… so salute…!!! 🎸 As a studio owner, Audio engineer, composer, sound designer, multi instrumentalist, multi genre producer and a multi genre recording artist I’ve always added as many types of guitars, basses, amps, synths etc as I could… however as a performer or a musician in the most stripped down sense I felt a new sense of comfort playing both my 30 inch scale baritone I purchased as a random act/reward… (it was last year as I had a 28 inch Squire baritone that I hadn’t recorded or gigged with)… I find as a musician it comes down at times with connecting with a specific instrument or having any axe (guitar or bass) setup to your tastes or to your comfort… i personal find baritones are enjoyable but not just for metal as I’m not only into Metal but now is referred to as shoegaze, Goth, etc so 80s bands used baritones often in a very different way than metal musicians or even music of much older eras so I find the possibilities only limited by my creativity… but I enjoy your channel because you make your point so very easy to comprehend, it is very helpful and I agree on your perspective 100% and some points resonate very much so… (certain guitar necks are specifically designed for shredding or lead players… kudos…A+++)
I just started laughing when you plucked the low F at 3:50 because of how ridiculous it is compared to what I'm used to (E standard, drop D, D standard, drop C). It's wonderful, I love it.
I dont think I can deal with something as long as 29-30 but I’ve definitely found my happy place with 7 strings ranging from 26.5 to 27.5 inches. Leads are a little harder but the tension on lower strings makes it so worth it
Baritone is perfect for me as I prefer rythmn mostly. The only lead playing stuff I am planning on writing in the future would be like weird sounds or stuff that would not need the extra string. My favourite tuning is drop A as for one reason without the low A string the other strings are tuned almost like a lute where the 3rd string is tuned f# or with low A's case the 2nd string. I like medieval music so adding some lute chords or little lead sections would be cool. I've got plans for writing an EP and hopefully 1 or 2 concept albums based on the witcher.
nice vid, thanks! interestingly, you actually talked me more out of 8 string and towards long scale baritone (currently sitting at 27"). tried the 8 string, love the low F# but it's somewhat hard to maneuver and maybe I'll just go for a longer scale 6 or 7 string. cheers for the insight!
So I spend a lot of my time in D and C standard and most of the time, standard Fender scale length guitars hold it down really well. That said, I'm still buying a baritone, to go with go with your tool analogy, so that my tool box has the right tools in it for the job at hand. Sometimes I need something to get between the bass and standard guitar tuning, and nothing else really does that better than a baritone. I have a 5 string bass for the same reason. Most if the time I only need the bottom 4 strings, but when I need that 5th string it's on tap. Have a 5 string bass, a fender scale guitar, and a baritone covers the most sonic ground with the fewest viable tools for me and makes my tool box extremely versatile. Thank you Ray for being awesome, and from one Grunt to another, keep leading the way.
If you're a "traditional kind of guy" but you really like baritones -- you might consider getting a MIM Fender Strat or Tele body, and then getting a custom Warmoth baritone conversion neck for it -- get the exact neck you want for your turned-baritone guitar. Get yourself some stainless 6100 frets, the exact neck profile you want, the woods you'd prefer, etc. I've been fawning over their options (but for a 25.5 to 24.75 conversion neck, in my case).
@@neonlights_12 I feel you mate! It’s a nightmare to find anything lefty that’s even slightly out of the ordinary. Even HSS strats are hard to find. Might look at doing a baritone strat conversion at some point
I agree that baritones are a pretty specific sort of instrument, but they are carving out a place in stuff outside of metal as well, especially in funk-influenced stuff. Mark Lettieri, both his solo stuff and work with Fearless Flyers, is like THE guy for really good and creative baritone playing right now and has inspired me to one day get a bari. The Fender Bass VI is also having a bit of a resurgence lately I feel too, a lot of people have been talking about them as a really specific tool to keep in the tool box.
i started playing mainly drop C for years. then i bought a 7 string to play B standard as Amon Amarth is my favorite band and i wanted to write some similar sounding music. i realized i never played the thinnest string and i was having troubles with chord stretching from the wider neck ,so sold the 7 string then bought a baritone. time went by and i started getting heavily into writing with drop B for metalcore inspired riffs .it turned out i didn't need the baritone as you state ray i randomly tuned my regular 6 to drop B and it held tune really well . at that moment i realized i wasted money on the baritone so ended up getting ride of it and have been happily playing drop B and B standard on my 6 string guitars ever since. that was an expensive lesson hahahahah
Depending on the 7 string they can also be 25.5" a classmate came once with one of the lower $ Schecter and said how he's now able to tune lower, 7 strings = must go lower as 6 was his thought without looking at specs...🙄
My appeals for wanting a baritone guitar are 1. I’m a metalhead w/not so high voice, and would like write in ranges that I can sing w/o hurting myself, lol 2. I’m a bass player mostly, and the transition from guitar to bass can be a little jarring on the fingers. I’d love it if baritones became more common.
Yeah man. Got myself a baritone a bit over a year ago. I think drop B and lower suits mine, but I also put the Tosin Fishmans in mine (highly!!! recommend for baritone and lower register tunes). The higher frets are a bit of a "ring-in" situation with the baritone, so don't stress about 22 Vs 24 fret (if it's even an option). It all sounds like arse after the 14th fret. ...but that timbre in the tone... Hot diggity! Just got myself the DV-77s too. All of this is bliss...
I've played since I was 13 ( 28 years) I bought my first baritone in 2019 and it changed my life as a guitar player I play blues and psychedelic rock but I love the low end on a baritone and it feels like something is there now that was missing before
I was hoping you would tell me your opinion, based on your experience. The reasons I am interested in playing a baritone are as follows. The first one is that I have very large hands. One size fits all gloves never fit me and even sometimes XL gloves don't well fit either. Also, I really like chord shapes that require the cramming of my fingers into tight spaces on most guitars (Ex. try a B min. 9th chord at the nut position), and I struggle to play cleanly at any sort of speed. To give you a better idea of what I mean, if I try to play an A major chord at the nut and I place my fingers in their natural order, my fingers don't fit side by side without hitting the A or high E strings and my pointer finger has to be back from the fret to make room for my middle finger, which means I have to really squeeze down to not get annoying fret buzz. I also like arpeggios, which also are easier to execute on a wider neck guitar I found, after comparing a friend's Fender to my Washburn. Lastly, I like to sing, but I have a baritone vocal range, as opposed to tenors who typically sing against standard tuning. I find what I can play for rhythm accompaniment in the lower register, a bit limiting on a standard guitar. Here is the caveat though, I am not a metal player or a country player, but I do appreciate the forms. I have written a country-ish song, but not into doing it exclusively. I basically consider metal to be classical with an attitude, mixed with a few other forms, mainly blues and punk. I was wondering if I strung a baritone with the thinnest strings that a baritone guitar would accommodate reasonably, even if I had to change the nut, could it be tuned a bit higher than normal and how would it play? Perhaps you are unable to imagine or relate, as someone who is largely into metal and playing rhythm riffs. I am thinking the frets are perhaps a bit thicker and taller, to accommodate a string that is typically looser and vibrating more freely, than that of standard guitars, which in turn would make playing chord shapes more common to jazz or classical a bit laborious? I thought about trying a George Benson model Ibanez, since it is rather wide or a copy of Reb Beach model Ibanez, and simply tune them down to D or E flat standard, but both are rather pricey. I am searching for a cheaper alternative.
For me, baritones are also great for upper fret access, i have big fingers and everything over the 15 fret on a 25.5 seems too small. i have a 26.5 7 string and the 24 fret is barely playable. On my 34 inch bass, i find the 24th extremely easier to play than on a guitar. My next guitar will surely be a 30inch.
Had a Chapman ml7t. Bought it cheap from a local pawn shop. Didn't jive with it. Traded in for PRS 277. Feels right at home. A few upgrades, now it's awesome. Keep it up Ray.
I use baritone (27) in standard B (strings EXL158) and I like chug on low strings and play tapping solos on high strings(my opinion).But I want to try 25.5 scale on standard b tuning after this video thank you for your opinion. Keep it up Ray.
All 3 of my Epiphone Les Paul's are set up for B standard tuning and I use 72-13's on those. I own a Schecter baritone and it's great but I prefer the shorter neck and heavy string gauge.
When he first started talking about that, my head instantly went "I've done a gang of shit with a flathead.." then he specified Phillips and I was like "true" lol
I have a baritone and two wonderful basses with active and passive pickups and plenty of regular scale range guitars. Just amazing places in range with the baritone. The string tension is high, so setup to make it playable is the key. If your action is high you will be miserable with heavier strings. Then again, I like heavier strings on low range or hollow instruments. Just for the throughput vibe that comes with the resonance of the higher tension I guess. I dunno, but it works for me so far. Also, I just find things that don't quite work in other ranges. Chord forms sorta work differently in my head with a baritone vs a standard guitar as well. No idea why. But I love it through.
It's all the same chord structure layout, but the vibe in my ears changes everything! Feels good on different roads I guess. I don't know know how to quite describe it, but it just works. Definitely curious about your pickup choices. Subbed!
I’m making a short scale bass into a 4 string baritone. Tuned DGBe with piccolo bass strings, on a Mikey Way signature Squier Mustang and a Nordstrand Pickup, all that’s left it to solder the output Jack.
For those that plan on pulling the trigger on a baritone. Make sure you play one in person first. Make sure you don't have short fingers and short arms. Not only is the neck longer the frets are spaced out farther too. Don't fall for the baritone HYPE. They're not for everyone.
I have a baritone guitar that has a whopping 33" scale length and 29 frets. If you have it in B tuning and put a capo on the 5th fret, it becomes your standard E tuning.
As someone who is almost exclusively a rhythm player and who has small hands, it seems like I would be better off with a baritone than a 7-string (I've tried both, and the baritone is more comfortable!)
baritones are niche because the amount of people that want a guitar to only play extremely down tuned metal riffs, on a 6 string, and also have money, is not a big market. To me the main reason for an extended scale is so you can run a smaller string gauge which can help with the clarity of low tuned strings. But personally I think it is more of an issue with bass guitars... I have a regular 25.5" scale jackson kelly with duncan invaders and a floyd rose in drop A with great action and tension and clarity on the A... and I can still bend the small strings when I want to. I would only bother with a baritone for tunings lower than A standard, but in that case I use an 8 string multiscale... for the weedly weedly's because I am not only a rhythm player. So maybe the baritone market is growing, but I can see why it is niche and maybe custom builders would be the best way to go if variety is sought.
It’s not jus the feel or the benefit of using the smaller strings. It’s actually being able to INTONATE properly. Which you must have a hell of a hard time doing with your 25.5 in A. Props if you got that handled bro. It must have driven you crazy.
@@beastlybeast2716 actually it was no issue at all, I check it whenever I change strings which was about 3 weeks ago, and just double checked it now with a TU-3 just to make sure I'm not blowing smoke up my OWN ass. It's perfectly intonated and still has travel forward and back 25.5" scale .60 DR DDT at A with Floyd Rose Original bridge. It's only a whole step below B which is easily intonated on a 25.5" scale. I've seen the cannibal corpse video where dude had to dremel out his bridge, but I don't know what the fuck is up with his guitar
@@rferguson3 I don't get your point. FYI Jackson Minion with 22.5" scale can also be intonated in E, so can a 25.5" scale. Have you ever setup a guitar in drop A, or you just theory guessing?
Played one along time ago and I loved it. Costed an arm and a leg during that time. Now that I am able to get one, I can’t find a decent one without it being a seven string. I found a les Paul style one from 10s and a super shredder from Harley Benton (these are the only baritones that I can find that are left handed).
Of course I watch this video AFTER buying one haha. I'm a bassist eager to try my hands at guitar, so I bought an imitation Les Paul (a really nice one I might add) ... which I only had for three days until my daughter came to visit, took a profound liking to it and yoinked it. I then found myself in a position "do I want to buy another identical guitar, or do I prefer low tones, bigger frets and thicker strings?" And somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm also counting on her hands being too small to pilfer this one too!
I know it's been a couple years since this but one thing I found, on a budget, is use single coils when tuning low on 25.5 and so on. I have a strat in drop F# with . 014-.080 and with noiseless single coils it sounds crisp and angry.
All those things you listed don't sound bad to me of course I enjoy modern metal and never like playing in standard and i don't need to play lead I'm all about rhythm, gain, distortion, and riff picking so this is perfect for me.
As a guitarist and bassist, I've often toyed with the idea of getting a baritone, especially for doing ambient guitar stuff, to capture that frequency between a regular guitar and bass. Problem is, my apartment isn't too big, so I try and limit the amount of guitars and basses I have, not to take up too much space. I don't plan on selling any of my current guitars either. I do, however, have an even more niche instrument, a microtonal Strat (with frets between the regular frets, good for Arabic and Indian scales), which I often down-tune and use similarly to a baritone, except with the option of microtones! Of course, the strings bend very easily, I'll need to switch to some slightly heavier ones after my next string change, but the sound is there. Anyway, my point was, I'd say down-tuning a regular 25.5' scale guitar and applying heavier strings can work as an alternate solution for a baritone sound!
I just did some research and the Baritone guitar was invented in 1956. I'm sure the original creators had no idea that this is where this creation would lead towards for heavier music. Since Heavier music wasn't Created yet.
Maybe I’m just biased, but I’m checking out baritone guitars because of bands like Motionless In White and Breaking Benjamin specifically. They manage to make riffs, solos, clean segments, amazing lead segments, etc. I think depending on the guitarist and how versatile of a player they are and/or can be shows the true power of the guitar that they hold. Some are meant to be shred machines, some are meant to be simple lead players. Some are even just meant to be rhythm players, which still isn’t a bad thing. It really depends on the guitar specs and how well a person can handle the guitar that puts them with a specific brand or even just one specific guitar.
I'm a rhythm guitar player that plays heavy rock and roll. I play Les Paul's intonated and set up for B standard tuning with 72-13 strings. My one Schecter is an actual baritone and it's just as awesome. Baritone guitars are the best, even for clean stuff.
If you're a lead player and don't like baritones and seven, eight , strings then get a fixed bridge . Tune the low e to match the b string like architects, zakk wylde , and mastadon . Bam you got the best of both worlds on a 6. Octave tuning is really cool and you keep your high end on the high strings
Regarding your first point, Daron Malakian from System Of A Down had Ibanez make him a baritone and he tunes to drop C and even sometimes as high as drop Db. Everybody's different and it's absolutely doable.
Ray, you may have just helped me make up my mind about something. I have been considering getting either a baritone guitar or a 7-string. I don't think baritone would like my fingers very well. I'm not sure I agree that baritone guitar is limited, but I can get a 7-string for a somewhat lower price than pretty much any baritone. There is the problem of my small hands, though ...
I totally agree they’re not for everyone and I would never recommend it to someone with not a lot of experience playing guitar. I love my James Hetfield Baritone, I have it tuned to drop A# and it sounds and plays great
Thicker strings create more tension, scale kind of matters. String trees make more tension as well. Staggered tuners? Maybe, but not enough to notice. I decided to keep one of my gretschs tuned up cause of bucket heads les paul and his playing. Plus I just grew accustomed to a longer scale.
I'm buying and selling all styles of guitars . There are some baritones that sell well . Like Ibanez RGIB6 or PRS SE Mushok Silverburst . But they still don't belong to expensive segment . The demand for them is not as big as for the standard scale length but I ve met a lot of people who wanted to sound as low as Slipknot on "Duality" but they never felt comfortable with 7th string and rarely liked the shape of the neck for 7 string guitar , especially when the model didn't have a "Prestige" neck . Baritones need some effort but if you study some guys like Rabea Massaad - they are slaying on baritones all the time . And if you want to go even lower you can always use a pedal like Digitech Drop for lower notes .
Cool video! Your comment on the scale length for lead playing, when you say “the longer scale length makes this a riff machine”. I totally understand what you mean, but the actual “point” of the longer scale length is specifically for tension. Huge strings on a small scale can feel horrible tension wise, so longer scale length allows you to compensate with smaller string gauges for tunings in general!
I have had a RGIB21 for two years and I love it. The dude at GC tried to sell me a used Universe because he said Ibanez didn't make baritones. When I showed him the Ibanez website he just kind of waked away.
Play 9 gauge for standard tuning... I have 27.5" 7 string and tune drop A(E standard for 6 thin strings). I switched from 6 string drop C as most guitars had intonation issues at that tuning or lower.
As an electrician and a guitar player, I can fully confirm Phillips head screwdriver can be used as a hammer. Also a chisel, door stop and if it’s bouncy enough you can hop it off the ground and make it jump back into your hand.
you've foiled my whole analogy hahah :P
You can jump relays to test them with as Philips head, and use them to pick dandelions. The door stop was beautiful! Funny comment!!
I am also an electrician and a guitar player and i approve this message.
@@JimAndersson I am still planning on buying a baritone, it’s just that solar x-type is around the corner and I’m holding out.
@@jessecommins4499 Haha yeah baritones are awesome! I just felt the urge to underscore the versatility of the PH2 😂 happy new year 🎉
Been playing baritones for a few years now, glad to see they are gaining popularity, hope this means more models from more companies!
Agile is jumping on that baritone trend as well! Be sure to check them out! I have one coming in in two weeks
Your delusional. Baritones are boring as fck! Everyone plays the same riffs.
@@gorgami29 I keep an eye on gear4music all the time, just don’t care for the style of what they are building now, they had some back in the day that were great at least on paper
@@lowtunedg9211 you don't like the super strats or what is it that you don't like about the new ones?
@@gorgami29 it’s the colors mostly, don’t mind super strats at all
For most of my guitar-playing life, I really enjoyed playing, but never really felt like I was finding my voice. Once I was turned on to baritones, I felt like I had finally found it, and I've never been so creatively inspired.
Honestly I’ve just experienced this. Tried out a Bass VI, and idk what it was that clicked but I was improvising riffs I’ve never played around with before. It’s a great feeling
I felt similarly with drums had struggled to barely learn anything on guitar for so long then started playing drums and it all juat clicked and then I just started thinking of guitar similar to drums and got better at that too but drums are just the highest level of therapy for me its nice when you find your thing :b but yeah I enjoy playing bass aswell has a more percussive feel so I figured a baritone would be similar to kinda mix in some slap with some guitar feel still mostly because of tosin abasi not that he uses a baritone that ive seen
I have ltd ec 1000 baritone. Ur I need to play it in
C
G
D#
A#
F
A#
Recommendation on set up and string gauge?
This is actually a really good vid, helps folks better understand what drawbacks there are. Though, funnily enough, I've actually seen a number of folks use baritones because of that first point, the higher tunings. In editing, you showed Buckethead, who uses a 27-28" baritone (can't remember the exact specs) and yet, I don't know of any songs he's made that are tuned lower than Eb standard. Similarly, Trogly has mentioned liking the increased string tension using baritones in E standard provides as well, and an old friend of mine, uses a 30" baritone, only tuned to drop A, which you'd usually expect to be seeing on like, ~26.5" guitars, give or take an inch
I think Buckethead has made a few songs in Bb standard (I know Final Wars is in that tuning but there are probably some more out there considering that guy has like 300 albums)
Bucket's signature Les Paul is a 27", just for reference. I'm not sure about the Jackson V he plays but it's probably the same
Buckethead had his guitar built bigger for him. Everything about it is oversized due to him being so tall.
@@Peavey02 I shook his hand once, it was MASSIVE.
Harpoon the Goon is in B standard.
really refreshing to see someone who's able to point out why something he loves isn't for everyone. I respect the hell outta that. when I was getting into guitar years ago, Korn was the biggest thing in heavy music, and 7 strings were catching on. Meshuggah and baroness
baritones were nowhere on my radar yet, but as I got more into playing, I just decided that for all the ridiculous amount of options out there, I prefer sticking to six strings and either standard tuning or maybe half step or step down. Generally half step. While I adore Dime's guitars, the ML shape in general, Vs, and of late, even the classic Gibson LPs and SGs that I've never really felt drawn to, I realized a couple years ago that I'm just a strat guy at heart, complete with traditional single coils, and still love playing ballsy, heavy stuff. 🤷♂️
I’m considering getting a baritone, and oddly enough, this video reinforced my desire for one.
Nothing better than honesty, when something is a content creator’s bread and butter like this it’s not often you see them express the downsides.
For me, 26.5 or 27” scale 6s are perfect. I play 7s mostly, but my 6s are in drop b. So that extra little bit of scale past 25.5 is perfect even if u still want to play leads in drop b. Or drop A even. Now going as low as 8 string tuning, In f# or lower, I’d prob look into something like Ray has or just get an 8 that way you can hit 2 birds with one stone.
Been playing leads on baritone guitar since the 60s in the country music world.
I do disagree with the “baritone guitars are very limiting/limited in their capabilities” statement though. A baritone could essentially do anything a normal, standard scale 6 string could do. Baritone guitars also come in 7 and 8 strings, meaning you can absolutely shred like Animals As Leaders, ERRA, etc. A guitar isn’t limited by its scale length, so that’s one thing I’d avoid implying as that could wrongly sway someone away from a baritone they might love! Still great comments on this topic!
Preach brother
Absolutely. A guitar is limited by its player, through and through
Agree. I have a 6 string baritone but I tune it in 5ths, and the range is great!
I think if a person likes the heavy tone of low tunnings get a baritone. Better to have a baritone than to have to downtune and go to a luthier to set your guitar up for low tunnings.....
Uuuuhhh. But if you meet the #1 category (ie use standard tunings and such) the tension on the strings of a baritone tuned to standard would be insanely tight. Perhaps too tight to be effective. Is he wrong about that downside?
*25.5”scale, 6-string* is the most versatile for me. From E-standard to B-standard, it can nail them all with the right strings/setup (Drop-A seems like the low-limit).
Best 💥 for your 💵 if your playing-styles fall in this tuning-range (anything lower, get a baritone).
Stay frosty, Ray 🤘🏼
??? @Ray, I always see people say this exact thing (see comment above ☝🏻) Can you show us how to setup a 25.5” with the “right” strings to let us see how to get a guitar that can drop lower? I’ve heard different responses as to what the “right” strings are and nobody ever shows how to set the action for that either.
It would be a helpful vid if you could demo both as a follow up to this vid + show us what people typically do wrong (like trying to use the “wrong” strings or setting the action wrong) so we can see the difference. You’re probably the best guy to show us how to convert a 25.5” to drop lower. It’s probably better for most people than buying a baritone.
I’d also love for you to make a vid that shows how you physical play differently when you’re using baritones. Riff playing on a regular guitar looks pretty different - seems like you’re positioning your fingers differently on the longer scale. A cool lesson or two to get people started would be great. This playing style also may not be for everyone. It looks like you have to learn to stretch your fingers farther and/or move them faster to cover the longer distance lol.
Thanks Ray!
@@MashaT22 you can't get your guitar properly intonated all the way up the neck if you tune lower than your scale length allows. Even if your saddle can move back there's still a set distance from the nut to 12th fret. Check out The Bunn's vids for all of the niche answers on baritones.
@@HansyPants184 Yes you can with the proper string gauge. Bunn's channel is exclusively for baritone. He's not going to tell you what string gauge to use on standard scale lenthed guitars. He uses baritones not only for down tuning but to have the most clarity while tuned down. He's not a fan of bridge cable sized strings lol.
@@EXSENTRIX That's not true. I've got a 26.5" 7 string that I ran in G standard for a while with a 74 on the low string. The string tension was always fine. That's the easy one to solve with a thicker string but you have to pick and choose where your notes will be in tune. It's fine if you're only playing the first 5 frets but you can only get some not all of your frets properly intonated properly up the length of the neck. G at 12 was physically impossible to get perfectly intonated without a longer scale length. You can get close to intonating it properly but you can't get down that low without sacrificing some of your neck having improper intonation on your lowest string. Try it out and let me know how it goes.
@@HansyPants184 Idk man. I don't have those problems.
I love my baritone and I play everything with it, blues, rock heavy stuff... and also play solos with this wonderful instrument. I just love the tones and a baritone is always inspiring me. It is just a matter of taste if you like it or not. There are so many options to play guitars. Don't stop trying out other ways, maybe you find something really wonderful that makes you happy.
Real nice summation of the pros & cons of baritones! Buckethead is is 6’6” w enormous hands & long tarantula fingers, so his baritone Sig GLP fits him perfectly.
I use 7 strings in drop A
I've set up my HX stomp with a pitch shifter so I never have to change the string tunings. All drop tunings, and all standard tunings are there
I use my 24 3/4" LTD EC for drop A with the D'Addario light baritone strings. It's perfect.
D'Addario medium baritone strings for standard A and drop G.
Zero intonation issues Lol!
@@EXSENTRIX mine is a Schecter KM7 MKIII artist (26.5" scale)
I've used daddario on and off but I seem to always go back to elixir (9s with a .62 for the low string). Daddario are great
@@LeeJoRo Hell yeah man!🤘🏼💀
I think baritones are also very different to play than 8 strings. Easier in some ways (less to keep track of in terms of what string you're hitting), but harder in others (you really gotta stretch those fingers to hit the frets you want!).
Instead of getting a baritone, I just got a drop pedal. I’m also not in a band or performing live music. I just have in my room. my drop pedal is plenty for me.
Most 8 strings are also baritones. By necessity.
The metal baritone thing is kind of an offshoot from the 8/9 string thing nowadays, where people have realized they don't really need the range at all. I have an 8, but I have always had and always loved pure baritones. And honestly I may love it more
8 strings and baritone? That must be something like double drop c?
@@abdullahkuzhan7247I’m pretty sure he’s talking about the fact a 8 string is basically a baritone because they usually have a 27” or 28” scale which is, by definition, a baritone scale length
Baritone guitar began in the fifty's as a country western guitar
I recently got into a Gretsch baritone. Since 7 strings weren’t for me. Much like your opinion.
Totally agree that it is definitely for a specific sound. Especially with the low output pickups I found that it sounds good with fuzz and overdrive to over saturate and tighten the sound all at the same time. Then have a hard gate on to help tighten further and get a more modern tone out of it.
Takes some tweaking and getting used to but definitely worth it.
I found that my schecter that’s 24.75 is best for e flat and drop C#
Got an Ibanez rgd that’s 26.5 for drop C
And the Gretsch 29.75 for drop G but I want to go to F. Because of your video on it.
Baritone layered with standard = pure awesome.
Deffinately more a riff machine like you said but by eck when you nail a solo on one they sound frickin sweeeeeeet :)
I love e standard tuning. The bass can breathe. Lower tunings squelch that frequency a lot. But hey. I also love meshuggah
With the right equalization, E standard could sound heavy.
Bassist of Meshuggah actually tunes up to F from E to be in unison with the guitarists.
This is actually really informative and points out everything most people won’t think about before actually handling one. If you’re buying guitars online and not actually handling them before playing, you can be very surprised when picking one up compared to a 25.5 or 24.75 scale.
They do play well but they’re not for everyone as he said.
Mark Lettieri does some really cool funk stuff with a baritone, look up "Gigantactis". Stuff is sick
To each their own, but I love my 27" and 26-28" in standard. It sounds brighter and clearer and just better. For D standard, I have 28 5/8" and 29 3/4". I know most people don't like feel of them. Years ago, I went down the "how low can I go road," and sought out the longest scale guitars I could find at the time, then gradually tuned them back up. Everything just sounds so much more articulate to me with longer scales.
Another baritone player here, would definitely agree with the somewhat limiting statement. I love my baritone and the sound I've developed using it, but i definitely did have to change the way I write and play a little bit. For the better in the end I think but there were definitely adjustments that needed to be made
Something that keeps me away from them is my use of a lead 7 string player. Mainly because of the fact that I started on extended range instruments with a cheap 25.5” scale length instrument. Baratones look sick and I want one but as a lead guitarist fair enough, not going to use it that much. Also 30” is the scale of 3/4 basses so it’s huge
I'm a studio musician, and I've been looking at rhythm guitar tools to get a real beefy sound. I don't play live so I'm very interested in the baritone guitar as a studio tool. Thanks for this video.
I own a Baritone just to have one around. I don't play it often but enjoy the hell out of it every time I do.
After an 18 month pre order wait, I finally got my ESP LTD M1007B ET and I absolutely love it! It's a 7 string with a 26.5" scale, so it's somewhere between a standard baritone and a regular scale. So far I play it in drop A standard (standard but with the low string dropped a full step), no issues whatsoever with string tension.
I found the sweet spot with Ibanez. Whether you buy the non iron label or the new iron label, they have a 28 scale length. My 9 string is for basically anything where I want to go lower than standard 8 tunings along with dialing in tone across a 9 string pickup which does bring clarity into the mix. The only struggle I have is I’m a huge barre chord player/finger picker as well and you can tune a baritone to get partials but it limits that aspect. And you get to get away with lower tunings with thinner strings so you don’t muddy up your tone. To be honest, I’ve always played and catered my technique to play with loose strings. So even with 28” I only need an .80 or 85 to play in D1 without needing a drop pedal. And then we got people like Joshua Travis who play A0 with dental floss and his riffs/tone are absolutely killer.
I bought a PRS 277 baritone about 3 years ago. Ive been playing guitar for 30 years and had never even heard of a baritone until 3 years. My wife’s friend’s husband had one when I met them one day. I had to have one and a week later I did. I love it.
I bought a 7 string Ibanez 10 years ago but as you said I prefer 6 strings. My brain has been trained to see 6 strings.😂
I already ordered my first Baritone guitar and I am so excited on writing some tasty, low sweet rythms. it is gonna get my creativity to go to places I have not gone to before :D
I May get a 7 string later to acompany it for more Lead stuff ;)
I'd love to hear an actual reason why people think baritones aren't suited to lead playing. I play lead lines on basses with no problem and they have longer scales still and bigger strings. Baritones solve the problems that a lot of us face trying to use conventional scale lengths for low tunings.
1) Shorter scales have less harmonic overtones. When you take the tension out of the strings this is even more pronounced. The more tension on the strings the more you will hear harmonic overtones and the easier you will be able to play harmonics, both natural and artificial. I'm not saying you CAN'T play harmonics on shorter scaled down tuned guitars, just that you're going to hear many, many, many more "clunks" on strokes where you want to hear a squeal. Not opinion, just physics.
2) Lower tension leads to physical problems for your guitar. Changing from E standard to like B standard cuts the tension on the neck in half using the same string gauge. So you have to adjust the neck and deal with floppy strings that won't reliably play in tune, or go up to heavier gauges which necessitate alteration to bridge and nut and that's just assuming you even have enough adjustment at the bridge to intonate. There's a great chance that you won't, especially with a TuneOMatic type bridge which already has less adjustment length than, say, fender your bridge saddles and their descendants. It's a god damn hassle AT BEST.
3) String gauges. This is a personal opinion, but I hate playing guitars with heavy gauge strings. I come from a classical background so I really favor a fretboard with some real estate and I don't want my guitar to feel cramped and constantly be running into the other strings while I'm trying to play lead lines. My first electric was a mustang and I fought that thing for years because I was accustomed to a flat radius classical where there was room between the strings. When I got my first strat, which was a 62RI, even though it has a 7.5" vintage radius, it was like freedom for my fingers. They finally had enough board to work with. I play 10s on electrics and anything bigger than that, I like the extra tension but it starts getting cramped again and that's a deal breaker. I can deal with it on bass because there's still plenty of room. On guitar, the heavier the strings the more real estate I need on the fretboard. You can't change that on a guitar you already have.
4)I have no interest in extra strings unless they're coursed. I don't want to relearn how to play, relearn chord shapes for the extra string(s), learn to play tuned to 7ths, etc. I just want a guitar with enough room on the board to play and enough tension on the strings to keep it from sounding like someone farting through my amp, or worse yet, post Pride and Glory Zakk Wylde. 😤 Baritone seems to me to be the simplest answer.
On top of all that, a baritone gives you plenty of room between the frets in the upper range. More wails, less tink tink tink like trying to play high up on a Paul or other sub 25" scale guitar. I love Les Paul types because they tend to be beautiful, and they retain an aesthetic that brings to mind the classical strings - violin, viola, cello and double bass. Coming from that background, I love that. But I'm with Les Paul himself in acknowledging the faults with such a design that kneecap his signature model from being a better player, that Gibson refused to address throughout his lifetime and to this day. Longer scale length, better ergonomics, neck through(when available) all make better playing guitars unless your size is a limiting factor. If your hands are small enough, knock yourself out, there are thousands of great choices available for you. If you're like me, and I'm only 5'10" 170lbs but with hands that need Xl or XXL gloves to keep from cutting off circulation, you appreciate more room, ESPECIALLY when it's time to lay down lead lines.
First heard of baritone guitars during the surf and Spaghetti Western years, very Duan Eddie-ish sound. I may buy one just because.
Baritones are also great for guitarists who don't wanna drop extra money on a bass guitar. A lot of times you think you're hearing a bass in songs, it is just a baritone. One popular example is "I miss you" by blink. In the video hes playing a stand up, but on the record mark played a baritone guitar. Baritones are something I would very much like to play with in alternate tunings just to see what it does for creativity. I think what baritones are best for is a writing tool that can do a few specific things really really well but a lot of that has more to do with them not being as popular and people just therefore not experimenting as much with them to figure out what else can be done with them besides just drop tunings. It would be cool to see what kind of thumping you could get out of that baby.
Thanks for the honest review. It is great that you are doing a reality check. As a metal guy who likes comedy love how quick to smile you are. Makes you more believable and ultimately cool. Dont forget that the surf genre was built on these things back in the 50s and early 60s. As a rhythm guitarists who loves the sludge metal riffs you have me sold. Thanks again!!!
That was super helpful for me...Thanks very much!
I have an Ibanez 28” scale baritone. It’s the newer iron label. I absolutely love it man, I use it for low tunings and riffs.
1st and foremost exceptional video and channel… I dig your riffing and the force is strong with you…!!! As a Die Hard Metal Head/veteran - Metal/industrial Vocalist I’d collab with you in a heart beat or share a stage without hesitation… so salute…!!! 🎸 As a studio owner, Audio engineer, composer, sound designer, multi instrumentalist, multi genre producer and a multi genre recording artist I’ve always added as many types of guitars, basses, amps, synths etc as I could… however as a performer or a musician in the most stripped down sense I felt a new sense of comfort playing both my 30 inch scale baritone I purchased as a random act/reward… (it was last year as I had a 28 inch Squire baritone that I hadn’t recorded or gigged with)… I find as a musician it comes down at times with connecting with a specific instrument or having any axe (guitar or bass) setup to your tastes or to your comfort… i personal find baritones are enjoyable but not just for metal as I’m not only into Metal but now is referred to as shoegaze, Goth, etc so 80s bands used baritones often in a very different way than metal musicians or even music of much older eras so I find the possibilities only limited by my creativity… but I enjoy your channel because you make your point so very easy to comprehend, it is very helpful and I agree on your perspective 100% and some points resonate very much so… (certain guitar necks are specifically designed for shredding or lead players… kudos…A+++)
This vid didn't age well.
I agree an 8 string should make the perfect hammer.
I just started laughing when you plucked the low F at 3:50 because of how ridiculous it is compared to what I'm used to (E standard, drop D, D standard, drop C). It's wonderful, I love it.
I dont think I can deal with something as long as 29-30 but I’ve definitely found my happy place with 7 strings ranging from 26.5 to 27.5 inches. Leads are a little harder but the tension on lower strings makes it so worth it
I love how you are one of the few guys on CZcams that doesn't claim to be something you're now. Respect!
"you can't use a Phillips head screwdriver as a hammer"
- Mechanic - "you sure?"
Baritone is perfect for me as I prefer rythmn mostly. The only lead playing stuff I am planning on writing in the future would be like weird sounds or stuff that would not need the extra string. My favourite tuning is drop A as for one reason without the low A string the other strings are tuned almost like a lute where the 3rd string is tuned f# or with low A's case the 2nd string. I like medieval music so adding some lute chords or little lead sections would be cool. I've got plans for writing an EP and hopefully 1 or 2 concept albums based on the witcher.
nice vid, thanks! interestingly, you actually talked me more out of 8 string and towards long scale baritone (currently sitting at 27").
tried the 8 string, love the low F# but it's somewhat hard to maneuver and maybe I'll just go for a longer scale 6 or 7 string. cheers for the insight!
Solid video! I've wanted a baritone since I first heard machine head, but this gave me some things to think about!
So I spend a lot of my time in D and C standard and most of the time, standard Fender scale length guitars hold it down really well. That said, I'm still buying a baritone, to go with go with your tool analogy, so that my tool box has the right tools in it for the job at hand. Sometimes I need something to get between the bass and standard guitar tuning, and nothing else really does that better than a baritone. I have a 5 string bass for the same reason. Most if the time I only need the bottom 4 strings, but when I need that 5th string it's on tap. Have a 5 string bass, a fender scale guitar, and a baritone covers the most sonic ground with the fewest viable tools for me and makes my tool box extremely versatile. Thank you Ray for being awesome, and from one Grunt to another, keep leading the way.
If you're a "traditional kind of guy" but you really like baritones -- you might consider getting a MIM Fender Strat or Tele body, and then getting a custom Warmoth baritone conversion neck for it -- get the exact neck you want for your turned-baritone guitar. Get yourself some stainless 6100 frets, the exact neck profile you want, the woods you'd prefer, etc. I've been fawning over their options (but for a 25.5 to 24.75 conversion neck, in my case).
This is probably how I'll have to go. I'm a lefty and the options for baritone are slim to none.
@@neonlights_12 I feel you mate! It’s a nightmare to find anything lefty that’s even slightly out of the ordinary. Even HSS strats are hard to find. Might look at doing a baritone strat conversion at some point
I agree that baritones are a pretty specific sort of instrument, but they are carving out a place in stuff outside of metal as well, especially in funk-influenced stuff. Mark Lettieri, both his solo stuff and work with Fearless Flyers, is like THE guy for really good and creative baritone playing right now and has inspired me to one day get a bari. The Fender Bass VI is also having a bit of a resurgence lately I feel too, a lot of people have been talking about them as a really specific tool to keep in the tool box.
i started playing mainly drop C for years. then i bought a 7 string to play B standard as Amon Amarth is my favorite band and i wanted to write some similar sounding music. i realized i never played the thinnest string and i was having troubles with chord stretching from the wider neck ,so sold the 7 string then bought a baritone. time went by and i started getting heavily into writing with drop B for metalcore inspired riffs .it turned out i didn't need the baritone as you state ray i randomly tuned my regular 6 to drop B and it held tune really well . at that moment i realized i wasted money on the baritone so ended up getting ride of it and have been happily playing drop B and B standard on my 6 string guitars ever since. that was an expensive lesson hahahahah
Depending on the 7 string they can also be 25.5" a classmate came once with one of the lower $ Schecter and said how he's now able to tune lower, 7 strings = must go lower as 6 was his thought without looking at specs...🙄
My appeals for wanting a baritone guitar are
1. I’m a metalhead w/not so high voice, and would like write in ranges that I can sing w/o hurting myself, lol
2. I’m a bass player mostly, and the transition from guitar to bass can be a little jarring on the fingers.
I’d love it if baritones became more common.
I have a prs 277 and I love it. I swapped the pickups for Seymour Duncans and it’s one of my favorites to play.
Yeah man. Got myself a baritone a bit over a year ago. I think drop B and lower suits mine, but I also put the Tosin Fishmans in mine (highly!!! recommend for baritone and lower register tunes).
The higher frets are a bit of a "ring-in" situation with the baritone, so don't stress about 22 Vs 24 fret (if it's even an option). It all sounds like arse after the 14th fret.
...but that timbre in the tone... Hot diggity!
Just got myself the DV-77s too. All of this is bliss...
I've played since I was 13 ( 28 years) I bought my first baritone in 2019 and it changed my life as a guitar player I play blues and psychedelic rock but I love the low end on a baritone and it feels like something is there now that was missing before
Great review... Small correction, when describing the strings tension the word is "Taught"... not "Tawnt". Thank you for this video!!!
I was hoping you would tell me your opinion, based on your experience. The reasons I am interested in playing a baritone are as follows.
The first one is that I have very large hands. One size fits all gloves never fit me and even sometimes XL gloves don't well fit either. Also, I really like chord shapes that require the cramming of my fingers into tight spaces on most guitars (Ex. try a B min. 9th chord at the nut position), and I struggle to play cleanly at any sort of speed. To give you a better idea of what I mean, if I try to play an A major chord at the nut and I place my fingers in their natural order, my fingers don't fit side by side without hitting the A or high E strings and my pointer finger has to be back from the fret to make room for my middle finger, which means I have to really squeeze down to not get annoying fret buzz. I also like arpeggios, which also are easier to execute on a wider neck guitar I found, after comparing a friend's Fender to my Washburn. Lastly, I like to sing, but I have a baritone vocal range, as opposed to tenors who typically sing against standard tuning. I find what I can play for rhythm accompaniment in the lower register, a bit limiting on a standard guitar. Here is the caveat though, I am not a metal player or a country player, but I do appreciate the forms. I have written a country-ish song, but not into doing it exclusively.
I basically consider metal to be classical with an attitude, mixed with a few other forms, mainly blues and punk. I was wondering if I strung a baritone with the thinnest strings that a baritone guitar would accommodate reasonably, even if I had to change the nut, could it be tuned a bit higher than normal and how would it play? Perhaps you are unable to imagine or relate, as someone who is largely into metal and playing rhythm riffs. I am thinking the frets are perhaps a bit thicker and taller, to accommodate a string that is typically looser and vibrating more freely, than that of standard guitars, which in turn would make playing chord shapes more common to jazz or classical a bit laborious? I thought about trying a George Benson model Ibanez, since it is rather wide or a copy of Reb Beach model Ibanez, and simply tune them down to D or E flat standard, but both are rather pricey. I am searching for a cheaper alternative.
For me, baritones are also great for upper fret access, i have big fingers and everything over the 15 fret on a 25.5 seems too small. i have a 26.5 7 string and the 24 fret is barely playable. On my 34 inch bass, i find the 24th extremely easier to play than on a guitar. My next guitar will surely be a 30inch.
Had a Chapman ml7t. Bought it cheap from a local pawn shop. Didn't jive with it. Traded in for PRS 277. Feels right at home. A few upgrades, now it's awesome.
Keep it up Ray.
I use baritone (27) in standard B (strings EXL158) and I like chug on low strings and play tapping solos on high strings(my opinion).But I want to try 25.5 scale on standard b tuning after this video thank you for your opinion. Keep it up Ray.
All 3 of my Epiphone Les Paul's are set up for B standard tuning and I use 72-13's on those. I own a Schecter baritone and it's great but I prefer the shorter neck and heavy string gauge.
As a mechanic , I loved the screwdriver analogy but laughed at it not being used as a hammer. 🤣✌
Also ive used a phillip head screwdriver as a hammer before, it is the most versatile tool...
When he first started talking about that, my head instantly went "I've done a gang of shit with a flathead.." then he specified Phillips and I was like "true" lol
tfw i'm a lead and only guitarist in my band and I play a 24.75 with four strings tuned DADF a la Wes Borland.
I have a baritone and two wonderful basses with active and passive pickups and plenty of regular scale range guitars. Just amazing places in range with the baritone. The string tension is high, so setup to make it playable is the key. If your action is high you will be miserable with heavier strings. Then again, I like heavier strings on low range or hollow instruments. Just for the throughput vibe that comes with the resonance of the higher tension I guess. I dunno, but it works for me so far. Also, I just find things that don't quite work in other ranges. Chord forms sorta work differently in my head with a baritone vs a standard guitar as well. No idea why. But I love it through.
It's all the same chord structure layout, but the vibe in my ears changes everything! Feels good on different roads I guess. I don't know know how to quite describe it, but it just works.
Definitely curious about your pickup choices. Subbed!
I’m making a short scale bass into a 4 string baritone.
Tuned DGBe with piccolo bass strings, on a Mikey Way signature Squier Mustang and a Nordstrand Pickup, all that’s left it to solder the output Jack.
But I already play bass and have a few
For those that plan on pulling the trigger on a baritone. Make sure you play one in person first. Make sure you don't have short fingers and short arms. Not only is the neck longer the frets are spaced out farther too. Don't fall for the baritone HYPE. They're not for everyone.
I have a baritone guitar that has a whopping 33" scale length and 29 frets. If you have it in B tuning and put a capo on the 5th fret, it becomes your standard E tuning.
As someone who is almost exclusively a rhythm player and who has small hands, it seems like I would be better off with a baritone than a 7-string (I've tried both, and the baritone is more comfortable!)
In standard E tunings a B to B tuned Baritone actually sits well between the guitar and bass. In certain applications obviously.
baritones are niche because the amount of people that want a guitar to only play extremely down tuned metal riffs, on a 6 string, and also have money, is not a big market. To me the main reason for an extended scale is so you can run a smaller string gauge which can help with the clarity of low tuned strings. But personally I think it is more of an issue with bass guitars... I have a regular 25.5" scale jackson kelly with duncan invaders and a floyd rose in drop A with great action and tension and clarity on the A... and I can still bend the small strings when I want to. I would only bother with a baritone for tunings lower than A standard, but in that case I use an 8 string multiscale... for the weedly weedly's because I am not only a rhythm player. So maybe the baritone market is growing, but I can see why it is niche and maybe custom builders would be the best way to go if variety is sought.
It’s not jus the feel or the benefit of using the smaller strings. It’s actually being able to INTONATE properly. Which you must have a hell of a hard time doing with your 25.5 in A. Props if you got that handled bro. It must have driven you crazy.
@@beastlybeast2716 actually it was no issue at all, I check it whenever I change strings which was about 3 weeks ago, and just double checked it now with a TU-3 just to make sure I'm not blowing smoke up my OWN ass. It's perfectly intonated and still has travel forward and back 25.5" scale .60 DR DDT at A with Floyd Rose Original bridge. It's only a whole step below B which is easily intonated on a 25.5" scale. I've seen the cannibal corpse video where dude had to dremel out his bridge, but I don't know what the fuck is up with his guitar
@@sqlb3rn Only a whole step below b?? That’s like 3 & a half steps below standard. 😂
@@rferguson3 I don't get your point. FYI Jackson Minion with 22.5" scale can also be intonated in E, so can a 25.5" scale. Have you ever setup a guitar in drop A, or you just theory guessing?
I love my Epiphone Les Paul Gothic Baritone that I got about 2 decades ago, still play it almost everyday.
Bought Ltd viper 201B because I had wanted to try baritones for while. Great doomstick for it’s prize. Can't wait for the viper 1000B
Played one along time ago and I loved it. Costed an arm and a leg during that time. Now that I am able to get one, I can’t find a decent one without it being a seven string. I found a les Paul style one from 10s and a super shredder from Harley Benton (these are the only baritones that I can find that are left handed).
Of course I watch this video AFTER buying one haha. I'm a bassist eager to try my hands at guitar, so I bought an imitation Les Paul (a really nice one I might add) ... which I only had for three days until my daughter came to visit, took a profound liking to it and yoinked it. I then found myself in a position "do I want to buy another identical guitar, or do I prefer low tones, bigger frets and thicker strings?" And somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm also counting on her hands being too small to pilfer this one too!
I know it's been a couple years since this but one thing I found, on a budget, is use single coils when tuning low on 25.5 and so on. I have a strat in drop F# with . 014-.080 and with noiseless single coils it sounds crisp and angry.
I have a Jackson King V that's just a regular 25.5" scale, tuned all the way down to B Standard, and it handles that tuning just about perfectly
what strings?
@@swpb 11-54
I used my Squire Strat in Drop G with an 80 gauge on the bottom and it was super whacky and thick
All those things you listed don't sound bad to me of course I enjoy modern metal and never like playing in standard and i don't need to play lead I'm all about rhythm, gain, distortion, and riff picking so this is perfect for me.
6:15 doo doo
I appreciate your opinions, thanks for saving me money!
As a guitarist and bassist, I've often toyed with the idea of getting a baritone, especially for doing ambient guitar stuff, to capture that frequency between a regular guitar and bass. Problem is, my apartment isn't too big, so I try and limit the amount of guitars and basses I have, not to take up too much space. I don't plan on selling any of my current guitars either.
I do, however, have an even more niche instrument, a microtonal Strat (with frets between the regular frets, good for Arabic and Indian scales), which I often down-tune and use similarly to a baritone, except with the option of microtones! Of course, the strings bend very easily, I'll need to switch to some slightly heavier ones after my next string change, but the sound is there.
Anyway, my point was, I'd say down-tuning a regular 25.5' scale guitar and applying heavier strings can work as an alternate solution for a baritone sound!
I just did some research and the Baritone guitar was invented in 1956. I'm sure the original creators had no idea that this is where this creation would lead towards for heavier music. Since Heavier music wasn't Created yet.
Maybe I’m just biased, but I’m checking out baritone guitars because of bands like Motionless In White and Breaking Benjamin specifically. They manage to make riffs, solos, clean segments, amazing lead segments, etc. I think depending on the guitarist and how versatile of a player they are and/or can be shows the true power of the guitar that they hold. Some are meant to be shred machines, some are meant to be simple lead players. Some are even just meant to be rhythm players, which still isn’t a bad thing. It really depends on the guitar specs and how well a person can handle the guitar that puts them with a specific brand or even just one specific guitar.
I'm a rhythm guitar player that plays heavy rock and roll. I play Les Paul's intonated and set up for B standard tuning with 72-13 strings. My one Schecter is an actual baritone and it's just as awesome. Baritone guitars are the best, even for clean stuff.
If you're a lead player and don't like baritones and seven, eight , strings then get a fixed bridge . Tune the low e to match the b string like architects, zakk wylde , and mastadon . Bam you got the best of both worlds on a 6. Octave tuning is really cool and you keep your high end on the high strings
Regarding your first point, Daron Malakian from System Of A Down had Ibanez make him a baritone and he tunes to drop C and even sometimes as high as drop Db. Everybody's different and it's absolutely doable.
Good video I love my 7 and my back up is a ltd viper regular scale tuned to B Flat like my 7
Super helpful! Thanks dude!
Ray, you may have just helped me make up my mind about something. I have been considering getting either a baritone guitar or a 7-string. I don't think baritone would like my fingers very well. I'm not sure I agree that baritone guitar is limited, but I can get a 7-string for a somewhat lower price than pretty much any baritone. There is the problem of my small hands, though ...
Played baritone for 20 years now. If it clicks then you are a lifer.
I totally agree they’re not for everyone and I would never recommend it to someone with not a lot of experience playing guitar. I love my James Hetfield Baritone, I have it tuned to drop A# and it sounds and plays great
Thicker strings create more tension, scale kind of matters. String trees make more tension as well. Staggered tuners? Maybe, but not enough to notice. I decided to keep one of my gretschs tuned up cause of bucket heads les paul and his playing. Plus I just grew accustomed to a longer scale.
I'm buying and selling all styles of guitars . There are some baritones that sell well . Like Ibanez RGIB6 or PRS SE Mushok Silverburst . But they still don't belong to expensive segment . The demand for them is not as big as for the standard scale length but I ve met a lot of people who wanted to sound as low as Slipknot on "Duality" but they never felt comfortable with 7th string and rarely liked the shape of the neck for 7 string guitar , especially when the model didn't have a "Prestige" neck . Baritones need some effort but if you study some guys like Rabea Massaad - they are slaying on baritones all the time . And if you want to go even lower you can always use a pedal like Digitech Drop for lower notes .
A piccolo bass/lead bass is also a flexible option for those type of tones.
Cool video! Your comment on the scale length for lead playing, when you say “the longer scale length makes this a riff machine”. I totally understand what you mean, but the actual “point” of the longer scale length is specifically for tension. Huge strings on a small scale can feel horrible tension wise, so longer scale length allows you to compensate with smaller string gauges for tunings in general!
FInally got one just a few weeks ago. I don't like 7+ String guitars so this was the choice for me. "Riff machine" is an adequate name!
I have had a RGIB21 for two years and I love it. The dude at GC tried to sell me a used Universe because he said Ibanez didn't make baritones. When I showed him the Ibanez website he just kind of waked away.
Play 9 gauge for standard tuning... I have 27.5" 7 string and tune drop A(E standard for 6 thin strings). I switched from 6 string drop C as most guitars had intonation issues at that tuning or lower.
I just love guitar in general, I own several standard length, two baritones, a 7 string, and a 8 string
You do a wonderful VID. Very presentable. Keep it going!