Machining a 30-Minute Spinning Top From Tungsten and Aluminum - Plier Spinning Tops
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2023
- Join me as I demonstrate the complete process of crafting a precision spinning top that spins for over 30 minutes! This has been a passion of mine since 2015 and, after eight years of customers asking, I'm finally sharing my process.
Throughout the video, you'll notice I use both CNC and manual controls. This mixed method allows me to optimize certain operations, while also providing flexibility to quickly adjust and play around with various designs.
In this video, I documented the creation of three different tops. They all follow a similar process, but you may spot some minor differences between each one. It's these subtle changes that make each top unique.
Tools Used in this Video:
* Tormach Slantpro Lathe
* An old beat up Grizzly Manual Lathe
* 10 Ton Drake Press
* Eagle Rock Hand Knurler
www.etsy.com/shop/PlierSpinni...
/ plierspinningtops
/ plierspinningtops
Thanks for watching, and please don't forget to like, share, and subscribe so you won't miss any future videos.
For those wondering, that bar of tungsten at the beginning cost 1700 USD.
I was actually wondering. He must feel every one of those chips lol. "There goes a dollar. Another dollar. Oooh, that was a big one, five bucks right there."
Yes!
And at the end?
@@skeetsmcgrew3282I seem to remember Demo Ranch having the same sentiment when shooting at silver. Rather than just deforming it started to shatter into not-so-insignificant pieces that flew out everywhere.
Dang! People will buy the chips though right?
I thought they would spin it up to some absurd speed with an air gun or something. But with just fingers? Half hour? Very well done, you guys are going to do something with your life!
Congrats!
He'd made a perpetual motion machine if mechanically spun up, people would be seeing it in a museum 50yrs from now wondering how 😂
@@backroadbeetle4781I wonder how long it would take to bore a small hole so that it would start to lose speed from the friction of the whole it's now in.
@@wishfull3nigma What you normally see on tops that are spun a lot is the bearing that they spin on starts to develop a flat spot
If he would first thoroughly clean the ruby and the glass surface, he could probably get closer to 5 minutes.
Closer to 5 min? 50?
I remember watching this old show about old school Japanese craftsmen and younger Japanese Engineers competing to build the longest spinning most stable top. This is just as impressive to watch as that was.
Here czcams.com/video/-q-hcidtjiM/video.html
Can u remember the name of it?
@@robertoclemente9580 czcams.com/video/-q-hcidtjiM/video.html The one this fellow made seems superior. If he had a launch mechanism like the Japanese show had, it would go for 40 minutes I bet.
@@robertoclemente9580 supreme skills might not be as old as i was remembering czcams.com/video/-q-hcidtjiM/video.html but here
I remember this episode, the old master craftsmen beat the younger nasa level engineers, dont know the name of the show though would like to see if they had more episodes it was quite interesting.
Anyone else just impressed that he machined tungsten so effectively?
I know right tungsten needs to be cut with diamonds or EDM I really don't know what type of tungsten he is cutting on that late but I'm pretty sure there is tungsten carbide tungsten that goes in the TIG welder I'm sure this whole bunch of grades of tungsten in different materials mixed in it like tungsten copper I've heard of I'm pretty sure I looked on the internet I seen some weird s*** one day I may be wrong though might be another materials thinking of I'm going to have to look up this tungsten grades on the internet I mean boots have $1,700 what she stole from work way he used to work to cut a top spinning thing
@@kennethjanosick5939 Holy shit man, punctuation!!
@@nahog99 Took the words right out of my mouth. xD
@@kennethjanosick5939 tungsten carbide is a ceramic, this as far as I know is just plain tungsten, which is harder than most other metals but it is brittle, hence the tiny chips, compared to the aluminium with large chip that stay as a spiral. You wouldn’t want to try machining tungsten carbide, it is just too hard, hence they use if for inserts for machining other materials.
@@kennethjanosick5939wtf separate your thoughts into cohesive sentences, you psycho.
Next time: place a bell jar over the spinning top and pull a strong vacuum
Next next time - add magnets for the repulsion and obtain magnetic bearing. Put all this into gimbal under vacuum. Enjoy stable axis of rotation. Observe several days of spinning.
Next time use an alien superconducting high-κ dielectric exotic alloy that can polarize the vacuum through overunity. Basics…
Next time use a star trek style tractor beam to suspend the top over the north pole of a neutron star and enjoy millenia of uninterupted spinning.
Next time … on dragon ball z
@@user-xe8oi5oq6c unless it's an active gimbal (like an equitorial mount), there will still be friction losses. But I love the idea.
that knurling tool is wild
LOL, the cat hair at the end, i feel that in my soul! My orange cat is shedding right now too, orange hairs everywhere! And oh my lord I almost spat out my drink when the cat knocked it off the stand! So funny!
It was at around the 10-minute mark that Cobb realised he was still dreaming.
My mind is boggled by this glowing box the tungsten came in 😶
Pulp Fiction
Thanks so much Chase for making this video. It's awesome to see how you create your wonderful long spinner tops. You are certainly The Master at this! Cheers, Phil
I had to laugh when the message "Ruby ball" came on screen and you immediately drop it 😂
Just subscribed.
I collect gems and mineral crystals,with a collection of over 600 specimens.Never saw a ruby,natural or created, cut to a sphere.Good choice,given not only its beauty,but more importantly,its hardness,being a corundum..9 on the Mohs scale.
Great,solid cold contact on the mirror.
Never saw your vids before,but Im really digging the creativity and the depth of thought that must have gone into the designs.
Thanks! I use ruby, sapphire, tungsten carbide, or silicon nitride bearings for my tops. They all work pretty well but the sapphires and rubies are definitely the hardest (and the prettiest).
@@plierspinningtops Excellent on all counts!!
awesome project & hilarious editing. the ruby drop was perfect!
..shit.
Great video! Therapeutic to watch! Love seeing how you bring these tops top life.
video recommendation algorithm works in magical ways. 3 video total, 2 of them 6+ years old, and getting recommended this after watching battleship new jersey video ... priceless
I’ll take it! 🙏 It’s so cool to see how you do this. Thanks for sharing.
This channel has a lot of potential! Really cool idea, would love to see more :)
I think switching out the knurling for something which is more shallow should help with earodynamics, as well wiping down the mirror (and degreasing) before spinning. Dust in the air and fingerprints make a good sanding medium which you can see in the trails being created in the mirror which increase friction.
Yeah, the dimples/roughness of that knurling probably hurt the time. Agree with the cleaning too, grease is sticky.
Agreed. Maybe something like a matte finish and then for grip use some rosin on fingertips. Maybe rub the mirror with some molybdenum disulfide powder and then polish with a clean cloth.
@@timehunter9467 A grippy spindle is necessary though. Making the spindle smaller would help though. And that would allow a faster spin, all things being equal. I used a small steel flywheel(?) with a center axle gear as a top when I was a kid, and it would spin for minutes.
Yall must have forgot how golf balls work.
@@devvvvvvvvvvvvnot quite the same, the dimples make the drag/lift more effective I think.
I could listen to those machining sounds all day long. Really cool!
lol i enjoyed the cat's appraisal of it all, with the super-quality mics etc.
Cant wait to see more spinning top content, keep it up 👍
I watched a video of a Japanese spinning top competition and the standard point beat the one with the round tip by many minutes. May be something to consider? Fantastic work!!! Love your mill!!
Your video quality and editing is great! You should make more videos! Subscribed!
Brings back memories... 10+ years ago, We made a spinning top in my home shop on a manual lathe and with a rotary table on a vertical milling machine, roughly the size of a beyblade because my 8 yo was into beyblade and how they were the best things in the world etc but I wanted to prove we could do better. So a piece of dense feeling unknownium material scrap box, turned to a size the same as the beyblade with a profile to keep as much weight on the periphery as possible and light knurl on the outer edge as its weapon, but we also milled drive slots in the top for a beyblade launcher, and embedded tiny neo magnets for the battery launchers. We did a pointed tip then manually polished the tip after machining. I say we as I got him involved with making it, he observed while we turned the body and knurled it, his hands on the handwheels of the rotary table doing the drive slots and magnet holes under close supervision and we did the calculations on paper next to the machine. And it was great, it could spin for 3 minutes sharing a arena with multiple other beyblades dropped in sequentially for the battle, and after the first few battles at school, nobody would go up against it. There was a video on youtube at the time with a huge amount of views in a battle where it trashed official beyblades then went on to destroy the arena with the knurl sawing through the perimeter but I deleted my channel a long time back now because of notifications from idiotic comments. I went to see him the other day, he is doing a precision mechanical engineering degree at uni, and its still there, sat up on a shelf in his room. And that's the real reason I built it, as a teaching prop. Looks like it worked ;)
I'd recommend cleaning the mirror of that glue residue. If your top drifted through it, it would impart extra friction and reduce your spin time.
Saw a video some time ago where machinists/engineers and top makers each designed a spin top in a who will get the longest spin time. The engineers went with a slightly rounded tip, and the top people went with a point. The point won the duration contest. My guess would be that the point has a fractionally smaller surface to rotate on when compared to the rounded point.
I make spinning tops, long spinners. I tested various kinds of tips, and I had the best results with sharp conical tips, not ball tips, in the sense of lowest friction. With ball tips the top topples down at a lower spin speed. But, in the whole, at least for the kind of tops I make, conical tips work better and make the top to spin longer.
Gotta love chemistry. I remembered when the ruby was being set into the (much softer) aluminum shaft that rubies are basically aluminum oxide crystals. Just a couple more nodes in the molecule take basic aluminum alloy metal into one of the hardest minerals on earth.
That’s great! I’ve never thought about that. Thanks!
I can’t tell you how much I want one. This was amazing to watch, thank you!!
Agree. Should sell one.
Costs only about 1200 USD
I was impressed at 5 mins…. The fact you got it up to 30+ is insane.
The World Record is over 41 Hours & Finger Spin
I’m just speechless you easily machined tungsten! Maybe it’s the specific composition of the tungsten but that’s just freaking nuts, I accidentally had one of my carbide tools nick a piece of tungsten and it shattered like glass
I use MT-185 tungsten. It’s 97% tungsten, I find it works the best, but not the easiest tungsten alloy to machine. With the speed and feeds right, it’s not too bad; but I dulled a lot of tooling trying to get it right.
Amazing! Thank you for this. I hope you post more.
The procession on attempt #28 was breathtaking
Something that might help would be to use a mirror that is slightly concave. Also I saw fingerprints on the mirror. It needs to be absolutely sterilized/clean. (Just because it's glass doesn't mean it has a smooth enough "um finish". You might want to use an optical compound/polish.)
It's still absolutely fascinating that tops can be made to rotate for that long. Good Job!
These kind of mirrors usually have a flat side and a concave side, I believe, but could be wrong, that he was using the concave side
That is so cool. The level of precision on that is so impressive. Where those lines in the mirror scratches near the end? I bet you'd have an ever better time on a harder surface in they were.
Good to see you back
Make it a competition, with prize money.
Watch the innovations and breakthroughs happen!
I bet it could spin for an hour or more if you used compressed air to spin it up…great video ❤
Even just using a string could be a big improvement. But I guess that would defeat the whole "just a top you spin with your fingers" brag.
@@delphicdescant I get that …I’m just curious to see how long it could spin, given such an advantage 🤔
I am impressed that you spent somewhere around $1700 for the tungsten rod stock.
Ha, yes! It’s gone up in price over the last few years. I made about 27 tops from a 12” bar, but it hurts every time I buy some.
@@plierspinningtopsdid you saved the chips from machining
I've been asking for this video for so long!
Great vid. Mesmerising to watch metal machining. Thanks 👍
As a hobby clock maker I want to see how long it spinn with a miniscule amount of oil to film the Ruby, preferably moebius 9010 😊
I’ll get some! Thanks! My customers use nose grease or derby oil (I typically use the former). But clock markers aren’t messing around, so sounds good.
I have always wanted a tungsten and aluminum yo-yo. Just like the top, you want the yo-yo to have as much mass as possible as far away from the axis of rotation in order to get the best spin times. You also want to keep them light weight so they are easier to get up to speed.
You could use osmium metal instead of tungsten!
Imagine you launch the yo yo and it's so heavy the string just cuts your finger off
I like the Idea of putting it in a vaccum chamber after you startet it. Idealy the mirror would already be in the chamber and only the lid has to be put on as it has started spinning. 45min+ should be no problem at all. Amazing project. Love it!
That´s awesome. When i was teen i´ve tried with a modified cassete recorder´s flywheel, and it spinned for more than 10 minutes over a wooden table
I would be really curious how long it would be going under vacuum.
I had no idea that adding knurl was that easy
Aluminum is very soft.
Very cool, great work!
So cool. As someone not too familiar with CNC machines the things that surprised me were the circular cutting bit to round it out. Also had no idea that was how simply knurling was applied.
Top Quality Video. Even had some humor in it. I was suprised to see you don't have 100k plus subscribers. CZcams needs to boost your vids so you can make more money and build a diamond version :)
Thanks, I appreciate that! I’ve been making tops for years now, but never made any attempts to document it until now.
That contruction is really top notch, you really put a new spin on a simple toy. Maybe your channel will have a spin off??
Very beautifully made
Amazing video. Fascinating to watch.
I would have thought more than a couple minutes was impossible but thata insane
@@AC-mu6ig no, that 27 hour one was for a battery powered one.
Ya 27 hours doesn't sound real but to be honest 30 min or 27 hours both sound impossible
I'd love to see one of these where you have an actual point of ruby at the bottom. Faceted to a very fine pint for minimal contact. I also wonder how long it would spin in a vacuum.
This is a interesting idea, thanks. In theory this might work great. But in practice it would be very difficult. First, the faceted point would have to be perfectly concentric; this is possible, but would be incredibly time consuming to attempt. The ball bearing comes with a perfectly centered “point” no matter the orientation. Second, if one manages to get it centered perfectly, the ruby point would be sharp. It would need a spinning surface that is at least as hard as the ruby. So it would have to be spun on a concave ruby or sapphire lens. On a softer material, it would drill a hole pretty quick and the friction would go up. Note, this is me just guessing, I could be completely wrong.
@@plierspinningtops the drilling that you're mentioning would only happen at a certain PSI. You have to exceed the deformation threshold before you start risking that, so if the top isn't incredibly heavy, it should be fine. That threshold is higher the harder the material.
Getting the point concentric would be easiest to achieve by making that the first thing you mounted and then using the lathe to form the rest.
There is also the idea of using an air compressor to get it up to a much higher speed to give enough time to allow for drawing a vacuum. You could use a tachometer to register the speed as well, see how fast you managed to get it going.
Just ideas from a guy that likes designing things as a hobby, but doesn't have enough money to buy the stuff to do it myself.
Thanks! I think your right about making the ruby concentric. If done on the lathe I’m sure it’s possible. But, it would take a lot more work. And I don’t think it would add any more spin time (just a guess). I have had bearings drill tiny holes in a glass mirror over time. But your right, a 50g top might take a while. In theory the point on a bearing and a point on a sharper cut ruby will be pretty close to the same contact surface area on the lens. But in practice it may make a difference because of the slight curve of the lens.
Another weird thing about spinning tops is that the top will get longer spin times over time as the bearing wears a bit. Then the bearing wears more and the time goes down. The theory among the top makers and the people who collect them is that the bearing flattens a tiny bit and this adds time. It seems counter intuitive. But I think it allows the top to do two things. First, it floats over imperfections in the lens, and second, it will get closer to a standing stop (where the top doesn’t tip over at the end). This adds minutes to the spin as it keeps spinning at super low rpm’s.
@spinningtopenthusiast2777 on CZcams is a master at spinning tops and has put a ton of time into testing tops and bearings. A lot of my intuitions comes from his tests.
But I’ve never seen a top like what you described, so I really have no idea. It would have to just be made and tested. Thanks again!
Cool thing about the sphere, its already an infinitesimally small point of contact.
@@plierspinningtops - like you said, forming the ruby into a tighter point is much more time consuming than it's worth, but I do feel that getting a much harder surface to spin on is the ticket. I wonder how much a sapphire plate would cost... and can you even get one with a slight concave surface, or would you have to do that yourself? Hmmm....
When I was in 4th grade of elementary school I made a top which span about 50min. It was a small fly wheel of some cassette player which I coated carefully with cardboard and lacquer to decrease air resistance. Then I added an axle which had needle sharp point from divider. I used a draw line in a different apparatus which attached to the top by two pins. Above top I had build a stand for a magnet which pulled top almost floating in the air to reduce friction. It also prevented top wandering off the mirror
i am very surprised the magnet did not create eddy currents in the flywheel and act like a brake and stop it very quickly
@@77appyiGood point but there wasn't anything like that. I suppose it had lead core (quite heavy for its size) and outer shell was like ceramics if I remember correct. Shell had lot of small holes which I then covered.
So I guess magnet pulled from the axle. If I adjusted it too close (with 3 screws) top jumped up and stuck. Magnet was taken from some broken loudspeaker, it was one of my treasures then. I used to collect iron dust from sand with it etc
Why do I want this so much, beautiful piece.
I've made a couple with SS bearing but haven't beat 11 minutes. Curious what the sapphire/ruby cost and where to get them?
The hollow center/tungsten ring is awesome.
The 1/4” sapphire or ruby bearings cost about $17 each . There are a few distributors in the US but the easiest place to buy them online is swissjewel.com.
@@plierspinningtops Thanks.
@@plierspinningtops that's actually not a bad price. I was expecting way worse.
10:04 a fency spinning top that goes for half an hour uninterrupted is cool and all, but a sticker that leaves no glue residue? Thats witchcraft 😂
I know all the comments are there, but I wanted to advocate for the pneumatically assisted run - even if you just do it once! I am mind-blown by how awesome this is. Your machining knowledge as well as the overall dedication and precision required by this project are just outstanding. I don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate what you've clearly developed into an artform, but knowing what compressed air was doing with those dinky little fidget spinners.. something that's so perfectly crafted as this would likely offer up a literally unbelievable spin time.
Thanks! I’m definitely going to try it.
That's so cool! Good job
What's the limiting factor here, air resistance I assume? Both at the surface in general, but how much does the knurling add vs. a smooth handle? A test after pulling a (near) vacuum would be cool!
Friction from the air and friction on the bearing (contact point). I’m using a cheap mirror, so I could probably add a few minutes by using a k9 crystal lens (maybe). The knurls definitely add air resistance, but it can’t be spun to high rpm’s by hand without that grip. The other limiting factor is me. I have customers who could get this same top over 40 mins; they are just much better at spinning. If you notice when I spun it, the side hit the mirror, this I’m sure took some energy out of the top. There is some technique I’m missing.
Thanks! I’m definitely going to try in a vacuum at high rpm’s.
@@plierspinningtops maybe try spinn it using string, put string around it, and pull it, while using a nail or something to hold it in place, just a thought
@@plierspinningtops also perhaps a tiny drop of watch oil.
@@plierspinningtops What if you used a bit of drumstick wax for grip, instead of the knurling?
This was so cool to watch, especially the machining of the parts!
I've done some 3-axis CNC milling / routing, but never lathe - few questions!
That peck cycle kinda thing at @3:28 rough turning the aluminium, but then turned it down on the next pass - is that for chip breaking or something? I noticed some kind of adaptive pass at @4:47, so was it something like that?
Also, never seen anyone knurl with the knurling tool in-hand lol, that was pretty badass.
As for the spinny stuff, imagine if you could get a silicon wafer from a microchip fab for the plate / mirror, that would be crazy smooth. But I'm guessing the surface needs to be concave?
Really cool video!
Yeah, that pecking on the Aluminum was because I was getting some crazy bird nesting after changing some tooling. That was an incredibly inefficient way to get around it, but it got the job done and kinda looked cool so I left it in the video. I figured someone would call me out on it. Ha.
The spinning surface needs to be concave or it wanders to the edge. A K9 crystal lens is a good option and will add a bit of time. A silicon wafer is an interesting idea, I wonder how hard it is. Thanks!
@@plierspinningtops Wasn't calling out, just genuinely curious and it looked cool lol!
Thanks! Really appreciate it. I just knew someone who had worked with cnc would think, “that’s a strange way to cut that”. Which is true.
Cost = Mucho $$ but the craftsmanship in this is what is very impressive. Good job PlierST.
I love that I'm able to spin one of your tops while watching this video!! What a trip >_
Yes! Thanks!
Well that's one way to knurl
Ha, yes. I’ve tried different knurling approaches over the years and using a hand knurler with pressure from three sides gives me the best control. It’s definitely not ideal. What I need is a cut knurling tool; they are just too expensive. So I’ve just kept what works.
I would love to see this top spun up to a crazy, crazy fast RPM in a vacuum just to see how long it would spin for. I bet you could get at least 2 hours out of it.
More like 2 years
The skill, the humor, THE SOUNDS
It's a 33 min spinning top, phenomenal. Never knew such things existed.
9:15 definitely the highlight of the video for me, by far
I am studying to become a machinist and have never seen a cnc lathe before, also, the handheld knurler was interesting and I got very uncomfortable when you sanded the top and other things while the lathe was on. I've seen too many liveleak vids and also the stuff taught in school is just about the opposite but I guess a professional does what a professional does.
This is great quality video production! We enjoy it! Curiosity=cat 🤣
Nice. Very smooth.
Spin it with a dremel to 30K and see how long it will spin
Will do! Great idea.
Or with compressed air 😅
Sounds good! I’ll try both. Thanks
@@plierspinningtops take good cover when doing so please :D
Ha! Will do.
Such good materials, but put too much effort into the machining all to make probably one of the WORST top design..? Way too much friction areas. If you'd make a smoother one it might have lasted closer to the record of 50 mins
Post your top, please.
@@poopybuttcheeks if I'd still be working CNC I would.
@@mkzhero k.
Id argue that this is more about the journey. And the visuals. Now i am curious about the record though. Thanks :)
@@DrunkenDemon ... Journey? Its like an hour of work on a cnc (or even hand operated) lathe, that's no 'journey'. Also if he'd use a more proper design it'd take even less time. As per the record, as far as i saw its 51 minutes. Though its a more specialized fancy build, but think even with a normal one he could do more than 40 minutes with those materials easily. What did he do wrong? Basically all of it, to maximize spin time, you need to minimize the friction surface (which is what the ruby and other thin tips are for), that he did... Next you need to use a heavy material that can store more kinetic energy, which he also did... But the last, and possibly as, if not MORE important thing is to minimize surface area (which he didn't) and remove as much jagged edges, aerodynamically active elements and even POLISH it to minimize air resistance. The inner bends of rim will pull in air and lose momentum to friction, the handle rough grip surface will act as an air break... Because its tungsten it still stores a ton of energy, but that's the difference between 30 and 40~ minutes, which is obviously significant
Supreme videography! The machining is awesome but the cuts and shots are *mwa* Chefs Kiss
Thanks!
I now have an overwhelming need for a machining lathe.
Turning/Milling tungsten is no joke, this was a cool project!
Thanks!
As a bonus you can mount this thing on a staff and take it to the map room in Tanis to find the Well of the Souls.
Très bel usinage, du beau travail
VERY Nice - would love to get one of these
I love the transitions great video :)
that is some COOL machinery! :D
thanks for posting this
I was wondering. That was pretty cool.
Sped up lathe sounds are like some old sifi movies .
Cool thing I like that you can see through the middle
This satisfying to watch.
Love the Wolfram W.
Very nice!
Some "interesting" tool paths going on there, I would have done it quite differently. Still turned out pretty nice, good work.
A practical (in as much as any toy can receive the term) application of increasing the moment of inertia. Great editing and filming skills, in addition to your machining!
That is a very sharp Sharpie
Would be helpful to run an aero simulation on the design to see if you could make some changes that would reduce drag.
Walio that’s some beautiful stuff
Imagine if DiCaprio’s character in Inception used this spinning top every time!
I remember a top I had as a kid that came with a spinner that held it until it reached max rpms then released it. You should make one of those to go with this top.
Watching this before going to sleep is masterpiece
Very cool!
30 minutes!
It’d take me 30 days to make..
Well done sir.
The same sounds my internet used to do (splendid work)
Epitomized fascination