Intermittent Fasting and Endurance Sports - Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 194
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
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I think you guys need to experiment with it more. I've been intermittent fasting for about 8 months now, and can easily do a 3 hour ride with efforts fasted. It probably took 1-3 months to fully adapt. I no longer have the energy crashes I used to have when on a carb loaded diet and find when racing, carbs are more a supplement to fueling rather than the primary energy source. In the end you have trial things to find what works, but also need to take into account the time it takes for the body adapt, especially if it has been conditioned in a certain way for a long time. We evolved to run on empty, we've just forgotten how to do it.
I have had similar experiences. You can definitely do long rides fasted, but , like anything else, you have to adapt for it.
I strongly agree, fat adapted now and always train fasted...no problem!!!
I exercise routinely in a fasted state. The keto diet was how I started. Burning or loosing fat I wasn't even sure I had or even had to loose. Fat adapted is the term I believe now. Going from a ketogenic diet transitioning into a more flexible ketogenic diet allowing more carbs but continuing with intermittent fasting and also prolonged fasts, Promoting a overall health not limited to physical performance.
@@olivergeoffreyblakely7623 I am doing similar.
Do you feed on carbs 30min before doing intervals too?
@@Northwindbreeze No at the moment I am not doing interval training due to injury.
The struggle during intermittent fasting you're describing is indicative of high carbohydrates dependency. It takes some time to adapt to it. After that period even long (~4h zone 2) or intense (sweet spot, VO2max etc) workouts are possible in fasted state without major (if any) hit on performance. I know that from my own experience because for 1/3 of the year I'm quite carb dependent too due to highly glycolitic nature of indoor riding season. Fasted rides don't feel great then. It changes dramatically during outdoor season though when I do more fasted low intensity rides. It quickly becomes natural to the point I often get the euphoric feeling of unlimited energy. I believe Peter Attia has a lot of good material on that matter.
I mostly agree with your comment. In my own experience, once I adjusted to fasting, I did not notice any hit on performance *on certain types of rides.* I can regularly fast about for about 18 hours and do a 1.5 hour sweet spot TrainerRoad workout and feel very strong. However, if I try a VO2 workout after that same fast I need to keep it to about 45 minutes. The basic rule I've developed for myself is that if my training is going to include longer rides of higher intensity, I need to fuel properly. Otherwise, I fast for about 18 hours and enjoy all of the associated benefits w/out any impact on my training.
@@cmeese32 Post workout nutrition is crucial when doing 16-8, 18-6 etc. IF. With well replenished muscle glycogen the day before, performance hit is minimal or nonexistent on the next day fasted ride.
@@michwoz Yes, exactly. After an 18-hour fast and 1.5 hour sweet spot ride. I have a big plate of veg, grilled chicken, brown rice, avocado and mixed nuts. Tops up the tank really well.
I agree with what cmeese32 says. I pushed my fasted zone 2 rides upto 3 hours occasionally, then I tried intermittent fasting (18/6) everyday, then I did a 50 hour fast, then I went almost full keto while still doing IF! I then tried to ride with a group while fasted and the pace would go way beyond threshold on the climbs and I've never struggled so much in my life! The next day I came down with horrendous tonsilitis and felt shocking and this was Christmas eve so totally ruined Christmas!! I had just completely bonked and it took it's toll on my immune system! The moral of the story is your body eventually NEEDS glycogen! Yes you can go a long time without it but if you are already lean AND working out you have to be careful! I just pushed it too far! On the plus side I now know how far I personally can push it and I am much more 'fat adapted' and more insulin sensitive now. I am now still only doing two meals a day but my evening meal includes some carbs like oats or sweet potato and I limit fasted rides to zone 2 and no longer than 2 hours.
I also do 1 - 2 hours fasted training and only after the 2nd hour I start noticing the body wouldn't be able to carry on.
4 people who didn’t commit to training while fasted talking about how it didn’t work for them. 🤔
I do a 24-36 hour fast 3 times a week. I trail run in the mountains of northwest Idaho everyday. I’m 55 and I’m in the best shape of my life. Hot lemon water first thing in the morning and bone broth, the dynamic duo.
There's an easy way to implement intermittent fasting without having to ride fasted:just skip dinner. Have a big breakfast with loads of carbs and some protein, ride hard and eat a lot while riding. Eat a lot immediately after the ride and stop eating until the breakfast of the next day. I've been following this lifestyle for the last 40 days while following a the Sweetspot base high volume plan with the addition of two sessions of strength training with low reps and high weights. I've lost 2 kgs, put on some real muscles and every workout seems to be easier than the previous one. After an hard 90 minutes Sweetspot ride I feel my legs cooked but the day after I wake up with the legs as fresh as new.
Intermittent fasting and training is completely doable, within reason. My power to weight ratio has never been higher. I have gone a little too hard while fasted a few times and suffered. , but somehow, still bounced back 2 days later. Ftp is not quite at my peak from last season, but moving up, my sprints have suffered. However, going uphill is so much easier with a 42lb 223-181lbs weight loss in 16 weeks.
Fasted easy rides, intermittent fasting, time restricted eating, moderately low carb, salads, meat and oatmeal are my food staples either preloading carbs and glycogen for a hard or long effort, or back loaded after a light jog, mod weights.
Best part, stable energy and very little soreness.
Max capacity on my gym weight routine has returned on most exercises, and now setting highs I haven’t seen in 20 years. I am 53 now and this is my body weight from 20 years ago.
I agree Dr. Jason Fung is mainly targeting type 2 diabetics, pre diabetics and the obese in the general population, however we adapt the principles he uses to create a better athlete. As active as I was before, I never payed attention to the role of insulin in our health and fitness. Time restricted eating and intermittent fasting fixes insulin resistance provided the high glycemic foods and unhealthy fats are addressed as well.
You guys have an awesome channel absolutely mind blowing. I have binge watched and listened, and surprised I had missed this one considering the timing.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for sharing your experience, Gary!
TrainerRoad
140 min 40 km ride on Fatbike yesterday morning while fasted close to 18 hours and only ate a 160 calorie energy bar and coffee with cream prior to return leg. Intermittent fasting is perfect for easy days, recovery rides. However, with fat adapted training, I can do short periods at threshold or longer sweetspot rides with ease. Recovery is much better with low carb.
Y'all didn't address the number one thing IF proponents mention for endurance athletes...try and train during your eating windows? Its pretty much a fix all to everything y'all just said.
I did it at the beginning of this year 2020 and in term of helping me to lose weight worked perfectly but in term of increasing my power and my abilities to get better as a cyclist didn’t at all but Keto diet definitely tough a different way to get around in life and know that "there are different ways to get to Rome “and I love that. Thanks you all for bringing that topic up
We need an updated video with the new data from fasting.
You can time your carbohydrates to feed your training while intermittent fasting. Eating window: 4PM-8PM. Eat at 4. Train at 5. Eat dinner, eat a later snack. Calories can and often are just as high as eating three square meals a day. The benefit is limiting insulin stimulation.
from my personal experience fasting and fasted training changed my whole performance for the better. i absorbed nutrients sooo much better and it just felt better to train on an empty stomach or just black coffee, I would encourage anyone to try it but give it time,it tkes the body 1-3 weeks to adjsut to fat burning on fasted exercise,thats the reason why the first few times wont be so enjoyable
Well training is too broad definition. Was it less than 3 hours or was it 5+ hours training and how intense it was matter too. The fasting itself will rejuvenate your body without going overboard with hard training during fasting, maybe light one for 1-2 hours.
I don't practise IF but I do low carb diet for daily routine and also for rides. I don't carb load but I do drink isotonic drinks during ride stops. Other than that, I only have plain water in my 1 bidon. I definitely felt the difference for long rides where I don't get hungry for food. My usual pre ride meal is softboiled eggs with some butter and coffee. That will last me for 3 hours before mid ride fuel stop.
But as mentioned by others, it takes time for the body to adapt to burning fat for fuel instead of glycogen all the time. keeping the glycogen store only for the high intensity anaerobic loads during ride...
I often do 18/6, 2 hour fasted rides but have a small BCAA drink 15 mins prior and take electrolytes in my drink bottle. I am an average rider but can sustain a high heart rate throughout without feeling “bonked” I could never have done that when I was a carb machine. I think becoming fat adapted is real and definitely makes a difference. That being said carbs burn differently to fats/ ketones and some are needed especially for anaerobic efforts.
I saw just now that I was about to comment that this video was pretty old, but I fast from dinner to dinner and I do this all week, every week. But I plan my workouts after how I eat. I bike to work 17,5K in zone 2, I do prehab and rehab work in the gym at my workplace during lunch (since I don't eat) and during my 2 coffee breaks I also do either core work our some really light cycling while having a cup of black coffee. We also have some really good terms at work, so I do yoga about 6 times a week with a PT (paid) and we also get to do some light workouts during paid worktime, so we often do body weight squats or planks (1min+1min+2min) etc. To the point! I try do do my workouts either right before dinner (if I can, this is up to my kids and spouse), otherwise I try to eat sensible so that I am not full before going ham with intervals, weight training or long rides/runs, and then I have my meal or a second heavier post-meal. So I can fast about 20-23 hours a day and still workout fueled. If i do a long ride I break my fast with something before I go riding and then just fuel as normal during the ride. You really don't have to fuss around that much.
I switched my diet to primarily healthy fats while also fasting years ago. There wasn't any immediately benefit that I could tell, but after about a year or so I noticed I could go for a long bike ride without bonking and without snacks (carbs). It somewhat freaked-me-out at first until I learned that once the body becomes "fat adapted" (I.e., can burn carbs or fat as energy), one doesn't need to constantly be dumping sugar into the body for endurance ride energy. As an added bonus, I can now skip a meal or two or three and know I'm not going to die! 😛
Disappointing video. They misunderstood Dr. Fung's data on intermittent fasting vs caloric restriction and thus draw erroneous conclusions.
Ive been using low carb/high fat diet for my recent prediabetic diagnosis. I also employ intermittent fasting-OMAD. I went for an hours easy ride 22 hours into fast. It was surprisingly easy on me physically, suffered no ill effects during or after. My weight training is developing nicely-again no adverse effect from being fasted.
I believe I can now progress to indoor endurance rides and experimenting with intervals and Zwift Racing for the upcoming winter. I've dropped 28lb in 6 weeks. I'm quite skinny looking for my build (weight training in my youth) around 200lb.-never going to be a lightweight climber type- but do like climbing mountains
For reference the question asked. ""What are Chad's thoughts on intermittent fasting, as championed by Jason Fung (from Chad's reading list, and synchronising this with a TrainerRoad plan. Do you do it on the free days? How would you work that with a Triathlon plan, where these are filled with swim/run. Or on low intensity days. What are Chad's thoughts on the scientific principles?". Jason Fung has a few videos on CZcams from his talks/books.
I began doing intermittent fasting and keto together back in January. Started wih 18/6 and made a smooth progression to one meal a day.
The first week i broke my 5 km record. A month later i was able to run 15 km without having anything during my runs, not even water, i had no issues at all, in fact i felt better than ever. Just my personal experience.
I'm that 220# guy. I stopped drinking, ate better, got on the bike and saw 180#s one day only. I'm now hoovering around 192. I need to start eating less once again.
Hi Guys, I like your general commentary on training but I would highly suggest that a lot more investigative research be completed prior to the commentary I was just exposed too. Training fasted, racing fasted, adaptation, Keto adapted training. I think that because you are speaking to a lot of people that can be influenced, it is important to know and put forward informative content. Ps: I think your cast have been informative, thank you.
I currently had a big crashed, Am not able to ride hard or long. Cuz my hips hurts bad.
That's why I started do fasted training to get me the same effects as a long ride.
Doesn't look like many people are interested in starving themselves, thou it's not as bad as it sounds and you don't really have to train/race during fasting to get the benefits of fasting and there are a lot of them that would definitely make you a stronger rider/runner in a long run.
Not really getting into much details here. Many athletes do time restricted eating, which is different from intermittent fasting. The eating and fasting windows needs to be different each day in accordance with the times one exercises.
I want to respond to this. I go to work in the morning and do my workouts after work or in the evening.
Intermitted fasting for me means wake up at 5:30, skip breakfast eat a cucumber at work around 9:30 when I first start to get hungry and really eat something real at around 12:00. After that just eat diner and if i’m working out before diner eat some carb rich meal before the workout. If i work out after diner i eat something after the workout to recover. Eating this way has helped me lose 8kg while growing ftp and keeping max sprint power roughly the same. (Lost a little in training but haven’t sprinted head to head in a while so i might just not be reaching my real peak)
Because I don’t really ride fasted except commuting to work i don’t feel like i face any of the downsides of fasting. And i’m sure i would have had a really hard time to sustain these low body fat levels in another way.
I know I can do it. I ate one meal a day for years and I’ve been on a shorter, 3 hour feeding window for a week. But I just did a 3 hour ride at about 155BPM and I didn’t feel bad. I did drink some electrolyte water though.
I run and cycle and I noticed my training improved with pre-fueled. So my concern is dropping performance. But I have 10 lbs to lose so I’m torn.
If you can't burn fat, then intermittent fasting is going to be difficult. If you can burn fat - you are fat adapted - then you can work out fasted while sparing muscle mass. The goal is to be metabolically flexible. If you constantly bombard your body with carbs, then you will likely not be able to utilize fat as a fuel unless you are naturally insulin senstive. I personally would not do HIIT fasted but a 1.5 hour endurance ride fasted is a great way to lean out and force your body to efficiently use fat. I am not a competitive rider who puts in tons of miles but I do ride consistently 75-120 miles a week with an modest ftp of 270. I use Baxter on my Kickr to do those fasted 1.5 hour rides in a controlled environment.
I do IF in off season and only every other day off set with spin training. Come summer though I just can’t do hard long rides adding in IF. It’s just too much.
hey could you please give guidance on when to eat if training very early mornings (5am), when should I eat especially mid week when there is no time between waking up and getting on the indoor trainer?
Good question! Consuming a fast-acting carb breakfast or a drink mix before your early morning workout will ensure you’ve got enough energy onboard to complete a high-quality workout.
Properly fueling your short workouts will not only increase the quality of your workouts but will set you up for long-term success, but doing so early takes practice and some physiological adaptation to get used to. It will take some experimentation to find the right early am pre-workout fuel that works for you!
Agree with a lot of the comments here. 1-2 hours of riding fasted is 'impossible'? I am 210 lbs and have been IF for over a year and have done multiple 3+ hour 50+ mile rides fasted while only drinking water and electrolytes.
i do dairy and meats only, add carbs during races over 50 miles. Did 23 hrs straight on mostly fats and assed some carbs to help with assistance. Keto is not great but when adding a small amount of carbs back during races, it works great together. 100-240 is my race distances I prefer.
i do 13 hr fasts daily but got a running race for 1.5 hrs on sat and too scared to do that fasteds
Is a Z2 ride fasted okay but do a sweet spot or threshold efforts after some carbs okay? Also is it best to always have protein after a ride or maybe even take some before?
Our stance on fasted training has evolved over time and we find that far too many athletes risk under-fueling. Here's a recent article that contains our tips on nutrition for cyclists: www.trainerroad.com/blog/nutrition-plans-for-training-and-nourishing-with-amber-pierce/
@@TrainerRoad thanks, that’s kind of you to reply and provide the info.
All off you should actually read and re read fungs book and actually understand it properly before talking about it cause you missed the point completely.
She found his website and read bullet points so she is an expert
So I've just tumbled down the rabbit hole of IF and there are some things about it that I find very confusing. For one a lot of the target audience seems to be people who struggle with health or weight issues, and second it seems like most of the information regarding athletes is almost purely anecdotal. So I understand that fasted rides are a thing that pros have been using, and that it could be beneficial to have your body burn from its fat stores but does that clearly lead to better performance? Using myself as an example, weather and other factors permitting, I put in about 450km per week of riding. I'm 175cm and 60kg, and have a pretty high degree of vascularity (you can typically see all the veins in my arms at any given time). I mention this only because at least to me it indicates I have a somewhat lower percentage of body fat. In my present state, for one, I think my friends and family would become VERY concerned for me if they found out I was skipping meals, for two, although I'm comfortable in my own skin and weight, I really don't think I need to be losing anymore weight at the moment, and lastly do I really need to be burning more fat than I presumably already am? Finally all this talk of Ketosis confuses me. I was under the impression that as endurance athletes what we need to most for fuel and for recovery is carbs? When I'm doing 450km + weeks I'm pretty hungry a lot of the time, and if it weren't for consuming good amounts of oats and brown rice idk what I'd be eating but whatever it is id probably have to eat a metric ton of it. Lastly Lastly (and thanks if you've made it this far) I'm making gains and improvements using my current fueling strategy and training routine, unless IF is guaranteed to make me faster why should I bother to fix something that doesn't seem to be broken??
Great questions! Your statement of 'why bother fixing something that doesn't seem to be broken' definitely applies. Training tools and nutrition advice cant necessarily be broadly applied to everyone, and doesn't benefit everyone in the same way, or at all in some circumstances! You have to exercise some agency in deciding what's most effective for you.
When I hear "thermodynamics laws" and "calories in calories out" then I realized they don't know what they are talking about.
So 1lb of fat = 3500 calories. That's about 7hrs of riding. Much easier to lose that from your diet imo
More like 3 hours ride. Just exercise doesn't burn calories. Recovery does too. And more muscles means more calories being burned at rest. Exercise + Diet is way to go. Even 15 min HIIT daily will improve fat burning considerably.
The discussion at 10:00 and after about how they felt completely destroyed trying to do workouts while doing IF; I would argue that it’s because the body needs to be metabolically flexible in order to tap the energy it needs. If your body always gets energy from carbs, the yeah….you’ll feel destroyed. It’s why I like a 30 hour fast once per week as opposed to IF all the time. It means you can still train 6 days exactly as before…..one day of fully fasted training; and over 12-16 weeks of this, the body will be come incredibly flexible metabolically.
Lot's of negative comments-from people that actually walked the walk (or cycled if you will.)
I use IF 18/6 on weekdays because I cannot ride on the weekdays and I eat five meals no IF and ride 200k during the weekends and holidays
About being depleted of glycogen, it only happens if you're used to constant carb fueling, you will deplete faster because that's all you're body is used to burning for fuel. Also what you think is depleted, really isn't, it's just that you're body isn't used to tapping into fat stores, this is a 'bonk' and you reach for a gel! All these studies on performance with and without carbs are done on subjects who aren't well fat adapted, most probably aren't even athletes and a lot are actually rats!! One other thing, doing fasted rides, IF and keto gives you a true sense of how well rested you are for a workout. Also, ketones help with recovery aswell and your body produces more ketones when carb stores are low. A tip for anyone going keto or low carb, salt and electrolytes are very important, you have to massively increase your salt intake.
At around 5 minutes the lady says, well ive you work out in the gym you allready producing Human growth hormone.
Yes, but ive you train in a fasted state you will produce way more HGH then training in a not fasting state.
Thats the difference!
I've done a 60km rides on a muffin and a coffee but when I got felt like I hit a brick wall, for sure intense rides I don't think you will need much fuel, longer rides at a medium pace you will eventually get hungry.
No, you don't. You just aren't used to actually being fasted. I can ride for 4-5 hours at a nice, non-competitive pace, in fasted state. My ghrelin goes up at night, because I've been only dining for at least two years. It's not something you can do overnight, not even in a couple of weeks.
You really are missing alot of MOA'S with fasting. The point of fasting is to "stack" so there will be no depletion of glycogen. Also the is more and more evidence showing better performance though mitochondrial flexibility.
Also fasting actually makes you more insulin sensitive so you can use this to grow stronger if you exercise in a fasted stated them break fast with good fats, protein and carbs to spike you IGF-1 growth factor which only compliments the high HGH and testosterone from the fasted workout. I'm used this with a few athletes and had great results.
If you're used to high carb fuelling, switching to fasted workouts at the drop of a hat is obviously going to suck.
Feel like you have dismissed the idea too quickly
I don't get why would professional athletes try IF. It just doesn't make any sense. I, amateur, can do 4-5 hours of bike riding at a decent pace without eating ANYTHING, only being well hydrated. I only eat at nights (OMAD), but I've been gradually increasing the amount of hours and weekly sessions over the course of TWO YEARS. So it can be done, but not overnight and once you're there it just comes out naturally. But then again, if I were pro I'd need them carbs to keep me giving the 100% when needed.
We cover this topic more in-depth in todays new episode!
czcams.com/video/rRirsT69UsU/video.html
VC Vegan Cyclist said in a video that all his 5min 20min etc. max power rides was done fasted.
This is called anecdotal evidence
Fasted doesn't mean anything if you ate your breakfast then went for a ride and didn't eat anything after that for some hours, but if you can do at least 15 hours fasting before a ride that would be a matter.
that's really stupid and tarnishes the word "vegan"
im 15 and so still growing, should i avoid doing intermittant fasting or not?
Hey, Alex! There definitely isn't enough research surrounding intermittent fasting on younger athletes, so we cant confidently recommend it as a safe option. A better approach while you're still growing would be to focus on comprehensive nutrition, well-being, rest and recovery, and putting in the work for the time being! :)
TrainerRoad Thanks for the reply, I do really focus on my nutrition, eating a varied diet, recovery as much as possible (why stand when you can lie down) and put in the effort; doing hard intervals and recovery rides. 💪
My strava : Alex Chastney
@@TheUltimateULTRA Hi Alex, You may want to read up on the concept of active recovery . Lying in bed has been a 'traditional' recovery method within cycling but it is scientifically quite outdated. Good luck with your cycling!
@@rolandfrerichs5625 I also do 2 recovery rides a week along side recovery walks
you are 15. and an athlete...you should eat as much as you need to..in other words...as much as possible of good food
Is a keto diet compatible with cycling?
Keto diets are generally not great for cycling athletes as you don't get the necessary nutrients for recovery. If you are simply doing low intensity training, then you can get away with a Keto diet but if you are doing anything other than that, Keto is not a great option. Some people are able to train on a Keto diet but others are not. We definitely wouldn't recommend starting a Keto diet and training. Those that are able to train on a Keto diet have generally been Keto for a long time.
They really need to read more research before doing podcast. There's so many benefits et you can train so much harder while fasted.
Marc Racine We’ve talked about the pros and cons of fasted riding a lot! Check back at previous episodes if you want to more info.
For faster training you cannot train “harder” in terms of higher/more glycolytic efforts. You can certain train longer in a Z2 type effort.
Our advice is that if you’re racing at or more than 9 hours then fat adapted *could* be a good choice. If you’re doing shorter events we don’t recommend it for performance.
TrainerRoad Dr’s Phinney, Volek and Noah have done studies that concluded that is was closer to 3 hour endurance events that the fat adapted athletes start to shine.
thank you I just posted a comment to this effect as well I've covered lots of fungs research till I actually understood the science behind it and they don't get it at all.
No. Eating within a window (fi 4-6 hours) is not fasting. With this type of eating, you eat normally on a daily basing and a normal account of calories. Fasting is not eating anything for at least 72 hours. That’s something different.
IF does not mean KETO
This video smells like Colorado.
Do these people actually know what they are talking about. It sounds more like pub chat to me? Are any of them trained nutritionists with years of experience in cycling and other endurance sports? You need to be careful who you listen to if you want to avoid filling your own head with misleading advice.
Coach Chad (sitting on the left) is a USAC/USAT Certified Coach with
10+ years of experience coaching endurance athletes of all disciplines. He dedicates a lot of time into staying up to date on the latest research, and all of his statements are a culmination of what he's read, and what he has observed as a coach.
So, totally anecdotal, I have never had breakfast, simply just can't stand eating when I wake up. Overtime, have gained weight and now def obese. Started cycling about 12 weeks ago, decided the mornings were the best times to do it, due to traffic. Haven't lost a single pound. But for my weekend w/outs I always have a shake before riding, cause I know that's when I will dig deep. Not worried about my weight, cause I know the reason there hasn't been a change is cause my diet is still dodgy.
I'm enjoying my riding and hope I will continue, I recognize my weight needs to be dealt with, for better performance. Plan going forward is 2 fold, 1 - add weights to my weekly plan and 2 - go "intermitent vegan", this will probably be doing vegan lunch and over time maybe set aside days I don't expect to socialize as completely vegan, so build up to maybe Mondays through to Thursdays
It's a journey, I'm not in a rush. I ride for the fun of it, I remember the benefits of weight training and want that again, and hopefully going intermittent vegan may end up working. What I've learnt is adding small changes and waiting for them to stick, is the way to go
I guess, what I am trying to say is, yes people are now saying "intermittent fasting" is all the rage, but there are plenty of people, like me, who've done it without knowing and so simply not a thing. The key is those small "atomic habits" that get you where you want to be. Do the right thing, do it consistently, says the guy who hasn't lost a single kilo.
“It’s just not eating. That’s it.” 😐😐 🤡 a lot goes on during that none eating time gap.
In other word fasting like us muslims fasting from sun rise to sunset
One of the pillars of islam is to fast the month of Ramadan
I remember years ago reading about muslims competing in the Olympics (or possibly another large world sporting event) during Ramadan i.e. when they were fasting and struggling to comprehend how they were able to maintain performance in this state. This was before intermittent fasting or keto or anything else like that came on my radar. I guess they/ you would argue for the merits of high intensity activity whilst fasted
this conversation did not age well. After a few years the benefits of IF are better known.
They do not seem to know what they are talking about. For example she says that she tried IF for a couple of days and didn't perform well in her next workout. Unbelievable that they don't know you need time to get fat adapted.
You should submit a question to trainerroad.com/podcast so we can call upon the peer-reviewed research and studies about fat adaptation!
Impossible to do a 2hr ride without eating! 🤣🤣🤣. You also said it might be good for weight loss but not performance, HELLO, power to weight ratio??! If all you want are big power numbers slumped over an indoor trainer then fine, be as fat and carb dependent as you like!
but we aren't fat tho. usually the people who fast and do keto are chubsters
Lower weight does nothing for you if you’re not fueling the POWER.
@@rockhopper01 we store fuel, that's how we're designed. If you NEED a pre ride carb hit or gels etc. during a ride, you could definitely benefit with fasted rides or a keto diet.
it’s hard to train in a fasting state if u r a juunnkee
The 2 time current Olympic gold medalist mens all around gymnast Kohei Uchiyama said in a recent japanese tv interview thar he eats one meal a day. It allows him to train harder and gives him more energy. American football legend Herschel Walker also ate one meal a day for his entire football career. After football he had big success in mixed martial arts also doing omad.
We don't doubt that IF has benefits. We just don't think that it's the best path forward for maximal cycling performance. Your examples of a gymnast and a football player have very different energy demands (explosive vs endurance) compared to a cyclist.
@@natepearson5317 For years I followed the traditional sports nutritional advice of eating ample carbs as advocated by TrainerRoad. When I was eating carbs I would literally BONK if my glycogen stores went too low so I always packed every bars and gels. Then last January at the encouragement of a friend I went to One Meal a Day and after a few days of feeling terribly hungry I quickly adapted to eating just one meal a day and my strength and endurance on the bike significantly improved. I do century rides in a fasted state at a better pace than I did previously and only drink water during the ride. My regular cycling friends are constantly eating their energy bars and drinking carb loaded sports drinks and also eat breakfast before the ride. Within 6 months I dropped 20 pounds of fat and and retained muscle and gained stamina. The best part is that I no longer BONK even if I go 120 miles and I no longer feel hungry on a ride or during the day. The key is to become Fat Adapted so you can burn fat and not rely on glycogen for fuel. I live in Japan and saw the gold medal gymnast interviewed on TV and he insisted that the secret to his world class status is OMAD. He claimed that he can train harder on OMAD than eating the traditional 3 meals a day. You arrive at Ketosis by either eating a Keto Diet or by intermittent fasting, which depletes your glycogen stores and induces Ketosis. The gymnast requires explosive power in competition, but incredible endurance to do 2 intense multi-hour training sessions per day. Recently many elite athletes are going low carb for a reason.
@@MrKadillak Same experience. I'm an experimented cyclist with a +5 w/kg FTP. When you get fat adapted it's not a problem to go for long rides with some intensity, even close to threshold with no food. For Vo2 or harder efforts, I feel like I need to take some glycogen to finish my training after 1 1/2, 2 hours. I also lost a good amount of fat quite fast. Even Chris Froome has the same aproach in his preparation for the big stage races, train low in Ch and race high. It takes some time and you are going to feel terrible at the beginning, but later on is a game changer.
@@natepearson5317 Give it a go for a month and tell your experience, easy as that.
@@natepearson5317 purely subjective view here. IF is a lot about learning what and when stimulates performance. I went into cycling as morbidly obese person (nearly 140 kgs), initially I was able to lose about 20 kilos by just cycling and sticking to healthy balanced diet (counting macros using My Fitness Pal). But then I platoed, tried to readjust training, nutrition, nothing helped. Until I tried IF 16/8 protocol which caused me to drop another 20 kgs. First week of IF was horrible I felt absolutely rubbish and performance went down that week. Fast forward to now - eating just 2 meals a day (maintenance caloric intake), triathlon trianing for year and half already (13-26 hours of training a week). FTP up 43 Watts (a little over 350W), completing running half marathons without trouble at zone3/4 with no fueling, 6 hours rides at zone3/4 also feel quite comfortable with just a small pack of nuts (worth no more than 700 Calories) and zero calorie electrolyte drinks. I continue losing weight by small amounts while maintaining (or improving) my FTP and overall fitness.
It takes a little bit more planning, but once adopted one can work out around intermittent fasting and targetted ketogenic diet very well. A lot of problems connected to IF are also connected to poor hydration strategy. Given one tends to lose a little bit more fluids on IF it's quite critical to drink more and balance out potential mineral loses. Finding this out was critical for me to adopt the strategy.
If fasting means not eating then fast food is an oxymoron
jason haagensen you should fast on fast food
Hello
i would like you guys to do more research in this matter, maybe do experiment on your self in your Off season.
You will find how less your body actually requires and stop being Feniky about ohh i need 2 Mg of iron right now or else i wont be able ride tomorrow morning.
Also Laws of thermodynamics, seriously! Your body is not an Machine how much you ever want it to be, its Biology not physics.
Also if you eat all our nutrition and so called amount of calories in one or two sitting, You get way more time to recover your body. than 6 hours of sleep.
If you say you cant do a ride after Fasting.
Hmmmmm las year i did a 7 day fast 4th day i was feeling ok did a 30 km very easy ride and on 7th was able to pull of 100km with avg speed 28k,
To be credible speaking about intermittent fasting you should try it for more than a day or a week. When you are carbs dependent for many years, it takes minimum 3 to 5 months to be really keto adapted. Intermittent fasting will help you to get there by forcing your mitochondrias to diversify their energy sources and accept ketones (produced by fat metabolism) as their main fuel. It will of course diminish insulin level but more interestingly it will raise your Human Growth Hormones by more than 1500% if you do OMAD (one meal a day). This will boost your recovery, lower inflammation etc... Pro cycling team Sky now Ineos is forcing their champions in ketosis through Intermittent fasting and low carb diet and they just did one and two on the Tour de France. Are you sure it doesn't work? I personally ride 6000 to 10000 km a year, I maintain average speed above 30 kmh on 150 to 200 km rides ie mid to high intensity on OMAD intermittent fasting and it works amazing. Study it and try it for real, your metabolism will thank you for it in less than 6 months and remember sugar 3 times a day is toxic for your body, fat is not ;-)
doesnt work for endurance athletes.
I used to fast a lot. seemed to turn me into quite a beast with lifting.
felt not that great when I turned to rowing and stopped fasting before I got to cycling which is the most intense thing I've ever done.
I could never fast whilst going up long hills fast or doing sweet spot intervals.
also team ineos are not fasting or doing keto just because you read that they are
@@Bayo106 Of course it doesn't work at a pro level. If you're gonna be at anaerobic zone the whole time, you need carbs. Even if you're fat adapted, the process is not that fast. You need the damn sugar lol. Thing is, can you what OP says? Pff sure, once you're really accustomed to exercising while fasted (can take months). Is it work it if you're a pro athlete? Hell no! You stick to what works for you, especially if you dont have to worry about your diet/weight.