Rats, Mosquitos, and the Fall of Rome
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- How two pests shaped Roman history.
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Chapters:
0:00 Rome, 357 AD
1:31 Rome, 590 AD
3:22 Mosquitos and malaria
4:16 The spread of malaria
5:54 Impacts of malaria
7:33 Enter the rat
9:27 Rats and plague
10:37 The Plague of Justinian
11:38 Plague, malaria, and the fall of Rome
Excellent summary. I think the main problem with Roman history is this insistence on using the word FALL, implying a sudden collapse. Whereas the reality, as this evidence demonstrates, is that Rome DISINTEGRATED, in an almost slow reversal of the way it expanded.
Romans were pretty high
Truth 😊
Sounds semantical. It certainly fell, but definitely stumbled several times before doing so
Yeah but "disintegrated" implies a phaser did it.
@@chrisdiaz9011a slow decay over many centuries is different from a FALL though
A new toldinstone video?
Ok let me drive off the Autobahn and take a break to watch it - seriously I’m instantly hooked just by the fact that you uploaded another great video without annoying and unnecessary music, long intros or whatsoever, just historic facts, a calming voice and an interesting topic.
Thank you for your work, best wishes from Germany (and oc I already bought your book) :)
Why are you looking at your phone on the autobahn! Pay attention to the road!!! 🤣
Man just announced commiting a crime in CZcams comments
I was shocked some years ago to learn that Irish masons building the Rideau canal in Ottawa, one of the coldest capital cities on earth, were dying of malaria in the 19th century. I realized then that it isn't just a tropical disease.
Perhaps they caught it elsewhere.
@@infinitejest441 By the mid-1600s, both Plasmodium falciparum (P.falciparum) from Africa and Plasmodium vivax (P.vivax) from Europe were firmly established in North America. P.vivax could survive farther north, and was killing builders of the Rideau canal.
Malaria was also a problem in the US around that time - Indiana was mentioned.
Alaskans often joke that their state bird is the mosquito. Because they’re so common in the state.
So yeah, they can reproduce easily in colder climates.
@@Christian-gy6fk You're right of course that mosquitos can live very far north. But it's a parasite that lives inside mosquitos and is passed to humans that causes malaria. Luckily those parasites cannot survive as far north as Alaska.
I am Italian and I was born in Rome. Near my house Marcus Aurelius wrote "Τὰ εἰς ἑαυτόν". I'm glad you Brits love my city's history so much and I'd like to talk to you but now I have to escape because my home is surrounded by rats and mosquitoes...😅😅😅
Those few sentences of closing remarks are a beautiful description of the historian's craft. If only more people were honest enough to say that the answer to most historical questions (the interesting questions at least!) are _"possibly, to some extent"_
Kinda like me questioning whether the math is correct on age of earth. I wasn't claiming creationism 7 thousand year old earth but questioning whether we truly know radioactive particles decay at a stable rate over billions of years.
@@kahlernygard809 The age of the Earth lines up well with the age of the Sun (calculated through very different, non-radioactive, means), so there's no problem there. Unless you believe that there are no laws of physics at all, and everything in the universe is just a huge coincidence. Which is, naturally, impossible to disprove but also a pointless ontology to even discuss.
@QuantumHistorian well quantum physics does not correlate with thermodynamics and its in your name. I find it funny how much those who cling to science push back against questioning the evidence and theories
@@kahlernygard809 lol, quantum physics and thermodynamics agree completely. I literally have peer reviewed papers on quantum thermodynamics. But you have to actually understand both fields to see that. While you're not even using the word correlates vaguely correctly. Funny how some confuse utter willful ignorance with superiority. Go learn something in depth before spouting your opinion as if it was worth something.
@QuantumHistorian lmao you are the one spouting doctrine as science and deny anyone who questions. And once again quantum physics and thermodynamics don't agree, lmao at some internet account claiming they have peer reviewed papers on the theory of everything. Where's your Nobel award dipshit ?
When the Aztecs conquered the Valley of Mexico they started something that almost completely reduced the mosquito population that bred in the shallow and often stagnant lakes and lagoons. Using wide shallow baskets made of reeds, they scooped up the larvae, patted them into cakes and dried them into 'crackers'. The other tribes in the valley were disgusted by this treat, but wittingly or unwittingly, it allowed the Aztec population to grow and to expand in health.
Very interesting! Is there a source? I ask because sometimes such interesting facts have obscure sources that are hard to find.
@@qus.9617 It might be eggs rather than larvae, eaten in around that area to this day.
@@qus.9617I saw a recent video where they were supposedly catching mosquitos to cook with in Africa. They were definately catching some kind of flying insect, but I couldn't actually see if it was mosquitos, but if you search for "mosquito burgers in Africa" here on CZcams it should come up.
Not only the diseases and parasites that they transmit, but if enough fleas attack an animal it causes them to become anemic so I wouldn't be surprised if enough mosquitos would affect humans in the same way. Maybe eating the insects helps provide back some of the nutrients/iron lost. 😆
Probably not though.
Bull! The Aztecs ate human flesh! So they did not advance in health!
That ancient Roman cat mosaic was very cool. Too bad cats never became man’s best friend in Europe
Man became their servant 😼
As for Rome itself, Justinians conquests destroyed a lot of Italy. Once the Germanic Kings were firm rulers, they wanted the country to prosper
Justinians conquests over stretched the empire and cost more than it was worth
The problem was the Germanic rulers didn’t understand the criticality of Roman infrastructure (like aqueducts) and this was compounded by the ill informed Northern European Christian clerics campaigning against bathing and bath houses.
@@allangibson8494 that was later.
@@napoleonfeanor Actually it was at exactly this time. The east west split in the Catholic Church occurred just before this.
Your videos make me feel like I'm there with them even though I'm sat in my kitchen waiting for the chicken to be ready 😂
Your comment near the end about how Justinian's problems didn't stem from the plague, the problems were just made far harder to deal with due to it, reminded me of the idea of Normal Accidents, which really seems to apply to Rome quite well. The idea goes that, in a large and complex enough system, there will be so many unique moving parts that not only are accidents or disasters unpredictable, but they were also inevitable.
Rome was SUCH a massive empire, with so much going on at every level from the highest political machinations to the smallest scale supply routes, that it's only natural it would eventually being to "fall". Of course, it didn't actually fall overnight, humans are shocking resilient creatures and we can adjust on the fly as issues pop up, but it's gradual decline and separation into the eastern/western empire was only natural. Trim off the fat, narrow down how much needs to be managed by a single ruler, and things will get somewhat "easier" to some degree. According to the Normal Accident theory a major disaster was already practically guaranteed for the Roman Empire, so add in Malaria and no wonder things got as bad as they did.
The Elden Ring reference made me laugh! Love your videos ;)
I'm really grateful there are ancient history channels like yours that show how simple narratives don't really explain things, and that there is a tremendous amount of nuance even on a topic people have been talking about for more than a millennium.
I read Hans Zinsser's marvelous book, Rats, Lice and History years a go. It’s a classic. Many thanks for this history of Rome's little vermin problem.❤
the title changes are giving me whiplash
Thanks! ❤️ When you say things like "If we can believe our sources." Dislike when you say "unprecedented" , "with that being said." Or "Without further Ado."
Everything about this video was fascinating. I'd never even thought before about mosquitos and rats migrating and not just always being everywhere
There was also the failure of the Roman sewer system and the resultant flooding of the forum with sewage. I'm surprised you didn't mention this.
The problem with the plague, is that the fleas get sick, and their digestive tracts get blocked, though most rodents are immune. The fleas jump from host to host, starving to death, and infecting everyone.
As mosquito season is starting in my area, this is a timely release.
Thank you for all your great content.
your channel is like a massage for my brain. your content and presentation are solid gold.
I really loved this video. Your closing remarks are important for bringing complexity to people's understanding of history.
I witnessed all the transformations of this video, its titles, its thumbnails. A truly beautiful butterfly.
It's a keen observation to link silting to swamping to 'squitoes to sickness.
I like your 3 descriptors like the titles of your books, and I love your channel
7:55 *Lauging with a geekish, snorting laughter* about HeRATodus
It's so awesome that you're promoting Planet Wild, they're truly doing some incredible projects out there. Thank you!
I'm so glad Garrett has stopped promoting the art share investment company, which is basically a scam that profits off of the average person's lack of understanding of financial markets and finance concepts.
@@essenceofsuchnesscan you expand upon that further?
@@matthewh4747 To repeat, not literally a scam but I feel it's basically a scam - in short: Dodgy sales tactics (such as a selective presentation of returns or the FOMO-inducing "wait list" - that you can skip!); fees that may sound reasonable but have a significant ongoing component that would be either much much smaller or not applicable on conventional investment alternatives; significant additional fees are that are not well disclosed (and hard to parse for the lay person); and, in my opinion, far far too little emphasis on the huge illiquidity risk inherent to the asset class - actually let's say too little emphasis on price risk as well. I think it's morally questionable for anyone to market super speculative assets to unsophisticated investors.
@@essenceofsuchness "basically a scam" is correct except for the word choice 'basically'
also "unsophisticated investors" aka anyone stupid enough to fall for the scam
@@essenceofsuchness based comment
Paul Cooper has a podcast and CZcams channel called 'The Falls of Civilizations podcast'. I've listened to every episode. It never ceases to astonish, not only in his dedication to production, the amount of context and information but the sheer hopelessness that is chronicled in these stories. Carthage and so many others are covered and when you hear the horrors, the devastation, the death and carnage, the struggle desperation of the inhabitants of these places beset by invading armies etc, it just moves a person with compassion for what they all went through.
Trying to imagine being born in a beautiful city to simple hard working parents, betrothed to an empire by your proxy and heritage and then being cast in such a circumstance, damned in either fighting off the invaders or just being around when they finally burst through the gates. Having to watch invaders rape your mother and sisters as they put you in chains or maim and mock you.
Wonderful video as always. Would you please consider doing a video on alcoholism in the ancient world? Did the concept exist?
To see the jewel of the western world virtually empty, stripped of decor, crumbled from earthquakes and filled with silt, overgrown; it must have been a powerful sense of loss as a visitor. It could be viewed as a symbol of how far eastern Rome was willing to go to forget the gods of the past.
Beautifully written. Thanks!
This is my favourite channel at the moment, I always watch you before bed. Interesting enough to keep me engaged while I watch and listen, but the kind of chill demeanor I can sleep to. Just wish you did longer videos! I do watch for the great info about Rome and Ancient societies in waking hours too to be clear haha
The timing on this video is perfect these mosquitos been wilding
Was just thinking the same 😅
Yeah there are tons where I live, more than usual.
They must be those USA created mosquitos from those Ukrainian biolabs that Russia uncovered. Russia always speaks truth. Haha russkie clowns 🤡
they always get in your car too bastards
Floridian Identified
Excellent video!
I wonder if they had a tick problem like we do here in Kentucky? I also wonder if they had to deal with spiderwebs over all their trails (if they had hiking trails).
I'll get webs in the face down the trail and all the way back up again on my quad. They rebuild them that fast
Try lice and typhus…
Very well done. I continue to enjoy your quality work. ❤
Thank you for presenting Planet Wild! What a great concept! Instantly subscribed :)
Great video as always! Looking forward for the new book :) One proposal: I would love to see a short list of sources/ literature recommendations in your description - to give a hint where to start if the interested viewer would like to keep reading on the topic. There is such a diversity of publications that I at least as a layman cant tell what is worth the read if I just search/browse for books on the topics you cover!
HeRATodus had me dying (of the plague) 😂
As a Floridian, I'm all too familiar with the scourge of the Mosquito. They're literal flying dirty needles. I'm fascinated at how long they were a problem and physicians didn't seem to connect the dots with Mosquitos and disease.
IKR? I live in Suwannee Co. and am so covered with bites, I look like I have smallpox.
And we have special Bill Gates gmo mosquitos in Florida.
Just love this video. Very informative,
He never got to Elden Ring...
When we look at the words "Ill-ness and Dis-ease", we see what ails us. Just like the Monty Python sketch "What did the Romans ever do for us", there is social rigor and infrastructure that made the people live longer.
speaking of the black death, thehistorysquad did a video where he read some contemporary testimony which indicated that the virulence was transmitted by breath, not fleas, and some people even knew this at the time.
Send me your second book early PLEEEEEEEEASE MAAAAAAAAAAN.
Beat elden ring? Rodent with a magic card...Love it XD
Love the MTG shout out @10:00. Especially like it since I'm running a Rat Tribal deck at the moment.
Funny enough, I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of mosquitoes when I visited Rome in early June. I probably encounter more mosquitoes in New York.
they had a big effort of draining any swamps in Italy I think around WW2? Anyways they eradicated malaria and most insects as well
the ability of humanity to never blame their superiors is disappointing
French Revolution, American revolution, etc
There is a pattern when they do lol.
The stubborn refusal of Roman planners to build roads circumventing marshes is bizarre, though marshes weren't the only terrain features they seemed to have ignored in favour of directness. Possibly it was to demonstrate power in areas where rebels/outlaws might hide but the issues must have been enormous from the roads sinking into the soft substrate to seasonal flooding and travellers/soldiers picking up diseases.
Interesting. Where did you learn that if you don't mind me asking? This reminds me of China for some reason. Rebel/bandit/outlaw strongholds which ranged from major nuisances to dynasty toppling threat level made their strongholds in marshes and precipitous 'wild' mountains.
@@qus.9617 nowhere specific, but perhaps the most famous example is the Via Militaris through the modern day Balkans, which transects numerous low lying and boggy areas in favour of circumventing round higher ground. It later became famous for crusaders picking up and succumbing to malaria on the way to Constantinople. Other examples abound such as the Ermine Street which ran straight through low lying fenlands in eastern England.
Those final thoughts were so expertly worded. This channel reminds me every day why I love history. ❤️
Lead cups probably played a role too
I absolutely love your channel❤
Please be as eternal as Rome!!
Thank you for using AD and BC.
I will have my first visit of Rome in a few months, for 5 days. I hope is enough time for seeing the most relevant history delights. I'm a history fan, so I'm not going for the nightlife and stuff. I'm going for the sights and museums. If anyone is experienced, I would appreciate if you'd let me know if 5 days is enough. I would also appreciate any suggestions of places to visit:).
5 days are not enough, but you will still have a great time. I recommend the Basiilica di San Clemente (and it’s excavations), the Crypt of the Capuchin Monks, the Pantheon, the Forum, the Palatine, and the Galleria Borghese. The Vatican and St. Peter's are incredible but will be the busiest and most inconvenient. Also, the Capitoline Museum is amazing! Have fun, let me know if you have any questions.
Honestly, just walk around as much as you can and go in all the alleyways. The centre of rome is a great maze you can explore and constantly find cool stuff. The gardens in the north centre of the city and the art gallery in it is also really cool, has some beautiful statues. If you can, find a way to get a tour of tivoli, it’s a town that has Hadrian’s villa, but also the d’este villa. Honestly I’ve never seen a sight more beautiful than when you are at the top of the villa. Anyway, tivoli is 30 km from rome so that’s the one thing, cheers!
Whatever you see, you will never forget. The city will rattle around your memories forever, even after 5 days..
Your last comment is spot on.
I had the closed captions on and they all popped up right at the beginning and then there were none for the rest of the video.
It's happening on quite a few channels. May be a You tube issue.
thank you for the video
Constantius II . About 34 years ago, a friend had an ancient coin, just like this one at 0:12 time. ONLY it wasn't gold..... / . Very interesting, seeing some HISTORY of this guy on a video, many years later. ATTA BOY Mr. Mark Felton ! ( Darius Arya has a CZcams channel ; another great on-site historian ! )
I bought your book. You write like you talk .
I liked your conclusion to this video. "Yes, but only kind of." It would have been easy to just say yes.
The aqueducts didn’t feed stagnant pools - the Roman’s didn’t use taps to turn water off in houses but rather there was a constant flow at a fixed rate that you paid for that overflowed to drains and sewers. Only with the breakdown of the aqueducts was water stored in any quantity.
As has been repeatedly discovered, mosquitoes can be controlled by covering water storage’s with fine woven cloth.
Nice epilogue
Say Blanche we've got rats in the cellar!!! - Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? Descendants of Roman rats invade Baby Jane's house! The rise and fall of Baby Jane Hudson!
"leaning further from each frost" . . . frightening. don't want MY apt walls doing that!! yeah, sis' was 'conservator' on that soren dig @ malaria-riddled villa n tiber. she mentioned that to me years ago they were finding some thing deccimated by malaria . . .
8:05 The Rat, is staring down a spider that's out of focus... Or maybe the Rat doesn't care, and the spider is just hanging there, being creepy.
Excellent and enlightening video, as always
How many times has this video been re-named and given a new thumbnail? I saved it to watch later a few days ago and it was completely different.
Jeez… how the heck do you even de-swamp a swamp? After the floods and the stagnant waters, how did they undo the waters and did those men die for the sake of everyone else?
Washington D.C. was built over a swamp. That's one way. Oops, not a great example. 🙄
my god the fucking rat holding the "Spreading Plague" card got me laughing like a moron
Does anyone know what the art style at 2:20 is called? I’ve seen many paintings similar in style and theme and always love them, but I don’t have any idea what category of art they are classified in!
proud of myself for noticing those were video game assets and not real logs
"Beat Elden Ring" You and me both Justinian LOL
"possibly. To some degree".
Well, it's settled then
Maybe 🙄
From the title for some reason I thought this was going to be about the Khazars
Have you done a video about coopers/barrels?
I recently purchased a Tuserkan rug which seems to have mosquito-borne fever & hallucination as its theme. Most unusual.
Mosquitos Gates next trick?
3 title changes in as many hours. Why?
Alright alright Todd I saw the name change 3 times and Im finally watching the video lol
Can you do a stand alone video on Emperor Constantius II?
That damn Elden Ring…always the bane of Roman emperors…
I would imagine that the kingdoms of the Frank's, who just watched Italy and N Africa get conquered, were a little wary. Not able to be taken by surprise like the vandals and to a lesser extent the ostrogoths were.
The MTG card hahaha!
Justinian couldn’t even get passed Godrick.
History focuses on what people did and what people said. Ignored are things like Krakatoa exploded (536 AD) on the other side of the planet, years of irregular weather leading to famine leading to pestilence leading to population collapse leading to loss of skills leading to a loss of productivity leading to demoralization of the empire leading to the collapse etc
I agree. Most history is lies. I have read the books not allowed to printed in the USA. They tell a very different story.
Sounds similar to 800-600 BCE, just before the Etruscans built the Cloaca maximus (draining the marsh in Rome)
WOO HOO! Fleas on rats! Fleas on rats!
The remarks about the procession in Rome just... broke me. I can´t fathom it. Were they curious walking down those empty streets?
For mosquitoes, a used dryer sheet rubbed on exposed skin helps me. It also smells and feels better than bug spray.
Idk what class you took about user engagement but the fucking mtg card cracks me up great work
Edit: Everything looks clear in hindsight if you can adjust to the twilight
How did Ravena survive malaria? Wasn't it literally a "swamp castle?"
Read about this recently. Rural dovecotes in Britain were built at ground level in medieval times because there were no rural rats. The black rats stayed in towns and cities and didn't go into rural areas. It wasn't until brown rats came in that dovecotes were built higher to deter rats as brown rats spread into the countryside.
So this questions the notion of rats spreading plague since plague spread through the countryside areas without there being any rats there.
I do believe you're right. Rome lost the thread on its construction activities. In the days before the Republic, the Italic tribes had parceled territories out to themselves. The Romans were one of the weaker tribes, and ended up with a marshy area with seven elevated livable spots. Those, of course, became the fabled Seven Hills of Rome. The Romans had to bring water up to the crop terraces they had just below their dwellings. They became expert plumbers as a result, and good plumbing requires an ability for good planning. The Romans developed that talent, then applied it to their defense organization. Eventually they were hard to beat, and set that talent into motion.
Success often sacrifices vigilance after a while, and the importance of basic things gets ignored. Thence decay and deterioration....
I'm curious what you think of the Krakatoa volcanic winter of 535 theory - supposing that lower global temperatures in following years made perfect conditions for the spread of bubonic plague into Europe.
Cats and Rats
In about 1970 I walked by an overgrown depressed ruin in the middle of Rome. There must have been at least 100 cats in that ruin. Apparently the cats would go out at night and hunt rats, mice and bugs.
I thought...what if all those 100+ cats decided to attack me in mass......I would be reduced to a pile of bones in ten minutes.
I am so thankful we have no malaria mosquitos in Washington. It is bad enough I have to deal with mosquitoes in the back country. 😂🎉
One question for the future since I have a strong storm outside. WEATHER: What did Romans think about lightning storms, hail and extreme weather. Especially when someone was hit by a lightning?
"History is something that never happened, told by someone who wasn't there."
@toldinstone, I liked the title about "Rats and Mosquitoes" but I didn't have time to look until after you changed it to "Did Malaria . . ."
Actually it was a miracle that the ERE lasted as it did after the death of Justinian.
do you mean when you have 50% of the population dying, the social organization would remain intact? You would have the same ability to harvest food, pay taxes, pay for maintenance and security of the land? I would think each occasion would give a blow to the solidity of the structure and after a while I would be surprised if it did not collapse.
Plagues and diseases must have played a primary factor, if not be the primary factor in the collapse of several civilizations in the West and the East
Bubonic plague may have evolved 5-6000 years ago and spread by Indo-Europeans migrating from the steppe