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Viking Shield VS Roman Shield, Which is More Effective?
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2024
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Norse round shield or Roman Scutum? What would be the most effective shield? Let's compare them.
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Shields have varied greatly in construction over time. Sometimes shields were made of metal, but wood or animal hide construction was more common. Many surviving examples of metal shields are generally felt to be ceremonial rather than practical.
Size and weight varied greatly. Lightly armored warriors would generally carry light shields. Heavy troops might be equipped with robust shields that could cover most of the body.
Covering the body from head to foot, the figure-of-eight and tower shield offered most of the warrior's body a good protection in combat.
Round shields were typical in the early European Middle Ages, with light, non-splitting wood usually reinforced with leather cover and occasionally metal rims, encircling a metal shield boss. These shields were supposed to be used in a fighting style where each incoming blow is parried with the boss in order to deflect it. The Normans introduced the kite shield around the 10th century. The kite shield main features were leather straps used to grip the shield tight to the arm. Used by foot and mounted troops alike, it gradually came to replace the round shield as the common choice until the end of the 12th century, when more efficient limb armour allowed the shields to grow shorter, and be entirely replaced by the 14th century. As body armour improved, knight's shields became smaller, leading to the familiar heater shield style.
In Italy, the targa, parma and rotella were used by common people, fencers and even knights.
Shields for protection from armed attack are still used by many police forces around the world.
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Scutum all the way for me, m’lord! When I trained for riot control in the National Guard our shields were the modernized version of the scutum and it was the best protection against all form of attack whether we were in formation or one v one.
Modern materials would make it lighter increasing its usability and effectiveness.
Oh many I remember staying in a shieldwall before in the army while people threw stones at us and attack us. Not fun at all.
Last time I was this early the monks at Lindisfarne had yet to meet any Vikings.
Meanwhile in the North Sea ^^^^^^^^⛵ ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Monks *have little hair on their cranium*
*Sea Raiders would like to know your location*
Video suggestions: Inca shields (why so small?!)
Zulu shields: What's the tensile strength of thin cow-hide when it comes to soft iron spear tips?
Celt Shields: Why hexagonal?
I second this questions.
1 You can bash with small shields. These shields are not made to protect from arrows, but to use offensively in hand to hand fighting. Gladiators used them too.
2 Dunno
3 To deflect blows.
Inca soldiers carried 2 shields into battle, a smaller round one strapped to their back and a larger square one held in one hand.
Stiffened raw hide shields were effective against all the native weapon types of the time (arrows, throwing spears, cudgel, both long and short spears). Apparently Zulu soldiers would either try to hook and pull down enemy shields with their own in order to get at them, or use the shield to knock them off balance thus creating openings. Bear in mind that the shields were center gripped and could be held away from the body. As the only form of defensive armament they used, you can expect it to have been sturdy, especially in the case of those tribes which specialized in fighting at close quarters like the Zulu.
No idea, I don't know much about the Celts.
@@leavesinautumn5959
If I may, most of what I've heard on the Zulu shield has emphasized its lightness and its usefulness in catching an opponent's thrusting attacks. Basically, that they were used mostly for intercepting a thrust (spear or bayonet) away from the body, allowing the user to push the weapon off line, allowing the shield user to close in and use their own weapons. I have no knowledge of how effective the shield was against clubs, though.
I've never used this shield myself, though, so I don't have first hand knowledge of its effectiveness.
@@eldorados_lost_searcher now i'm reminded of ERB Shaka Zulu VS Caesar and Metatrons old "X VS Y" stuff... Metatron, give us Caesar and his Legions VS Shaka zulu! :D
the roman shield is clearly for a battlefield situation when working in formation. the nordic shield is way more nimble and versatile. warzecha even uses them to shield bind. you can also use them edge forward for even more reach.
He's the master of it's use, I would say.
You can still punch or puch with the edge of a scutum
@@snakeoveer1046 Punching with a scutum won't be nearly as effective as punching with a Viking shield. First, the scutum is pretty heavy (~15 lbs, with some of the largest ones supposedly being ~20 lbs) so you won't be able to accelerate it to a fast velocity. The scutum was also carried like a briefcase with a horizontal grip and the arms extended downwards so it wouldn't tire out the arm of the user - so you wouldn't be able to rotate your arms to "punch" as effectively.
@@Intranetusa you don't need to rotate your arm to punch effectively, just lift your arm and punch with the bottom edge, sure it's goin to be more telegraphed than with a light round shield. but hey, front kicks work. Also you could just punch with the boss if you are at close range
Formations win battles, not warriors. Alexander proved this. The Romans came up with their version for their more uneven terrain.
I’m gonna guess it comes down to context, that’s how all good comparisons end
yes
Context is always important!
Ya, If I had a viking shield in a roman phalanx, that isn't ideal. and one on one, i wouldn't want a scutum vs a viking shield unless I had the entire Roman kit. Then unless your fighting some sort of Huscarl with a full kit, you have a good chance of winning. Overall for shield itself i'd have to go round shield, since armor is never mentioned. But Scutum if I could have the entire kits from both. Vikings just didn't use a lot of armor as we know so far.
I would say roman shield are made for fighting as a group. As individual fighter in a duel i would have preferred viking shields, as part of a legion roman shields.
Yeah, these shields are next to useless without the group tactics they were deployed with.
So basically, Scutum for tanking; Viking shield for DPS.
In gaming parlance, yep. I think of it as Active vs Passive Defense, to vastly oversimplify the matter.
Wait, what is DPS?
@@wolvenedvard3049 'Damage Per Second'; gamer jargon.
@@paulpolito2001 Ah of course!!! XD
I would say scutum for team raid, round shield for solo.
2:30 "But before doing that I'd like to spend a moment talking about my cool new hat"
Imagine having maximum coverage and reduced weight
This meme was brought to you by the norman kite shield gang
I made one of those is awesome
Kite shields are barbarian trash, real men have stiff shoulders from carrying around a piece of wood the size of a refrigerator door all day.
@@magisterrleth3129 like manly man i see... Well well well jokes on you, im not manly enough
Celtic shield > Nordic shield
Less likely to get your legs chopped off.
Kite shields were strapped and if a pilum pierce a strapped shield there are high possiblities that:
a) it will reach the body.
b) it will pin the forearm to the shield
Holy hell glad to see you're feeling better!
“I really like the strapped configuration”
We all do in 2020.
Stay strapped or get clapped.
Dds214 we dont care america
UBuK - I do!
Glad you're feeling better and back to making amazing content! Much love
Certainly, both shields were obviously ceremonial only.
LoL, before sunrise.
I don’t get the joke here? The scutum was the backbone of Rome?
@@rockstar450 Archaeologists and historians very often claim something they don't understand was only for ceremonial / religious purposes. This guess is written in textbooks as if proven facts.
This joke is a great parody of that nonsense.
Ha Ha Ha the joke rises again! ;D
@@rockstar450 Metatron had a rant about archeologists and historians who wrire that everything is "ceremonial" when in fact they just don't know what it is.
I assisted to a demonstration about the late roman shield, that is slightly elliptical and convex. It is also quite big, but lighter than the classic scutum. It's probably a nice mix of the advantages you explained of the roman and viking shields: it protects very much but it can be used offensively in a powerful way.
I’m glad you’re doing well ...I enjoy your knowledge of Roman history.
Fantastic to see you back and looking so much healthier, especially with such an interesting subject!
Which shield I would want depends heavily on what weapon I have. The Scutum is very much designed as part of a unified weapon system with the Gladius, while the Viking shield is more flexible and can be used much easier with larger swords or axes than the Scutum.
I was just watching your videos last night wondering when we'll get a new Metatron video, glad you're not sick anymore
Great video! Personally, I think I'd reverse your armored/unarmored choices. If I had little to no armor I'd want the Roman shield for the extra protection. If I had decent armor, I'd take the viking shield for the versatility.
Heavy, but protects the legs. Very helpful. Low hits aren't easy to see or dodge ur parry or block, especially fake over cut feints into a real low leg thrust
Last time i was this early , the world had not ended .
Last time I was this early he didn't rp a castle with a hat
any channel I'm already subscribed to: "Please hit the subscribe button."
me: "That's why I'm here." :)
The protection of a scutum also allows you to rush in. Very handy if you intend to use a small sword in close quarters. I think scutum and gladius is a perfect match.
Shocking...the Italian guy would choose the Italian shield in almost all cases. :-) Time to hear from Skall...
I'm a German, and I'd pick the scutum hands down, too. >8^)
I'd definitely pick the Viking shield.
What's that red hat you were wearing?
Its were commonly worn by knights. From South or North Italy.
Glad to see you look better. It s good to see you back in action. Hope everything’s well!
I’m currently building a Scutum atm. Figured since I’m stuck at home I may as well keep busy. Honestly so disappointed that there aren’t many building techniques online. Legio XX is helpful but I’d love a full in depth video on everything Scutum. How it’s made, what sizes, why were some rounded and some square on the corners. I swear there is a little niche for this stuff and a large lack of online videos about it. I mean just look at 4:35 there are loads of different types and sizes. Makes building a historically accurate Scutum hard. As always. Love the content and learning new stuff everyday. Keep up the good work. (Also side note you are the reason I’m spending wayyy to much money on Roman gear ahah)
Hey, Metatron! Could you do a video on why the Late Roman army changed from the Early Imperial scutum to convex circular shields prior to the Migration Period? I think that might be an interesting follow up topic to the one you presented here.
Ah! Thanks Metatron, now I have something cool to watch while I deal with my brand new quarantine insomnia.
Ave Metatron! You're looking much healthier than last time! Good to see you back on your feet and posting again! I hope the rest of Italy can make as good a recovery, and soon!
Hey man. How are you. Safety and peace be with you (yes, an AC fan here, at least the first few main title games)
Really happy to see you looking better mr. Tron hope you are feeling much better. Great content as always :). Oh, and i love your outfit in this one btw!
Glad to see you seem to be feeling better, good video!
It's great to have you back, Metatron
THANK YOU METATRON! IVE BEEN WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO DISCUSS THIS!
It would be nice to have an entire video about the less known Roman military reforms such as the Camillian and the Polybian reforms with their proper historical sources, there is almost no information about those reforms on internet (at least, no easy-to-find information).
Someone needs to make a video on those vertically strapped Italian shields and how they're used
well the viking shield is in general, when considering all cuircumstanses better. yes the roman shield can cover a larger area but it's so big and bulky compared to the more agile viking shield.
there is no better-than-other shields, only more effective shields in different scenarios.
Try paying more attention to the analysis next time buddy.
Darien no you’re wrong. A scutum shouldn’t be used in horseback. It is inferior here. A bucker would suck in a shieldwall XD. The simple fact that the Romans understood is that some systems ARE superior to others for certain purposes. In this way, the scutum was overall the better shield for the Romans to use
@@davidd1289
¨there is no better-than-other shields, only more effective shields in different scenarios.¨
being horseback is a completely different scenario, being in a shield wall is a completely different scenario, being alone is a different scenario, and that is exactly my point.
Why are your emphasizing my point?
My point is that overall to the Romans, the scutum was seen as the superior kind of shield, as most elite soldiers were heavy infantry.
@@davidd1289
Hmmm there is no antique source that suggests Romans believing that their infantry shield was far more superior than other infantry shield, If that is what you are trying to say,
I'm glad that you are feeling better. You sound much better. I would choose the Viking shield for the type of battle that I would involve myself with
Nice video, and you look very fancy with the hat. As you have pointed out, these shields make sense in their context, and my context is more of the Norse mercenary than the Roman Legionnaire, so of course I'll prefer the Norse round shield
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Great to see you up and well again!
Hey friend I hope everything is going good in Italy and you and your family are feeling well I appreciate your effort in these times to still produce content of always been one of my favorite historical creators keep it up my friend
Good to see that you're feeling better after the illness!
Good to see you feeling better
Glad to see youre all well again !
hello I am glad to see your back, hope you're feeling better
0:08 *Handsome bed hair boi*
2:14 *Sudden budget pope*
Hail Metatron. The thing that always worries me about center-grip vs strapped shields is the potential for hand injuries. If you beat on a shield with an axe or whatever, all that energy has to go somewhere, and I have to think one's hand would give out long before one's arm.
Great video!
It’s great that you have recovered!
Wish the best to you, I hope the situation in Italy will get better!
Glad you're feeling better, Meta. I hope you and your kith and kin stay safe!
Wow, excellent critique - I like how you explain why a lack armor necessitates mobility. Thank you 🙏🏻
I think the Varangian Guard settled this point ages ago. I realize many of them used two handed axes, but the Emperor seemed impressed. I have often wondered if the center boss shield was in part a response to missile attacks. I feel like it would be less likely to be injured by an arrow or a pilum through the shield if you are holding it by a single point in the center and extended above you. The Viking shield extended would definitely increase your coverage by reducing the angle of attack, but it is much easier to disrupt a shield held in that manner. It would probably be useful for temporarily disguising your attack though.
It's good to see you back and healthy!
*Maple:* Any Shield can do as long as you invest all your stat points on Defense
Got it Kkkkkkkkkk
Lol. It does help that she’s just a fuckin monster tho.
Glad to see you're feeling better
Lock and loaded pal
I think the circle shield also makes the battle more dynamic as you can move faster and flank easier. And we can also see this in effect with Roman's versus Germanic tribes.
Glad to see you're doing better Metatron!
Lock and loaded
happy to see you back !
Glad your feeling better great content
Thrilled to see you are doing ok.
I totally agree with your conclusion in that armor and context determine which is optimal, but I would add weapon should play as a determining factor, as well. If I had a long, stabby polearm, I'd prefer the scutum. With something shorter and swingier, I'd go for the Viking.
I know the Romans used Gladii and the Vikings also used spears, but personally, with less mobility I'd want more range. And I'm not practiced with a Viking shield enough to confidently use it with a polearm; if someone closed the difference, I'd be in trouble!
Metatron is our shield against the corona. Helping us stay at home with his shows.
Great vid as always. Just a little nitpicking. The Norman shield (it wasn't just used b vikings) is a round shield therfore if the grip is horizontal or vertical is completly up to you.
Hello Metatron, im happy your healthy and back in historical youtube-business! I would call the Viking Shield, Germanic Shield, since it was used for thousands of years by germanic warriors, the Cheruski, Saxons, Goths and so on and the Vikings, which are a part of the germanic culture. Funfact: the late roman armys of the eastern roman empire in the middle ages were germanized by their germanic allies. They used the germanic Spatha instead of the Roman Gladius, combined with the Germanic longspear and the classical Germanic round shields.
glad someone said it.
You sound much better. Skin is still really red but glad you are recovering.
Metatron i found your channel today and this is only the second video that i have seen, the contets they seem to be the ones I've been looking for for long time. I very enjoyed this video. Now what can i say? I'm italian and history lover and for this reason i can't betray the Scutum (other people in the comments have already exposed the reason way the principles of the Scutum are still used today and i'm according with them) i prefer the Scutum also in a 1vs1 fight and in my opinion with a reductiont of shape ad weight it would be perfect.
(Not a significant reduction)
But also the viking shield have good caratteristc and i have quite enjoyed this quality in the "Vikings" series, (not only in the series) that is high accurate in history reproduction of weapon and quite accurate in battlefield situation.
So this is my opinion.
Bye and good job.
P.S.
S.P.Q.R. Dominates
Thank you! This question bothered me for a while.
Hello Metatron! Thanks for the great videos and hope you are doing well in these troubled times. I have a topic I would love to hear your thoughts on, whether in tests or in informative setting. I would very much love to see tests with side by side comparisons of say ax blows, hammer blows, and "murder strokes" from sword cross-guards and pommels. My guess is the swords will by nature or only having a thin blade to grip onto, be less effective even though the weight of the striking force is now at the far end just like the ax and hammer. Still much better than striking hard surfaces with the blade alone. Always been curious as to how effective reversing a sword to hit like a hammer is to the real thing!
I also theorize a stiffer blade should behave more effectively as a handle for murder strokes, with less flex on impact and so more force transferred to the target. Flexible blades should in theory lose more force, but how much, if at all I'm curious to see. It would be great to see multiple tests done by different channels using different targets.
As with any holding onto blades test, although it can be done without gloves so long as the blade doesn't slide in your hand, better to wear thick sturdy gloves for safety, grip and to absorb some of the shock from hitting a hard target.
glad to see you're still alive.
I think I’m with you metatron depending on the situation would depend on my shield choice as both are very great shields
They both have their own specific uses.
Aesthetically, I prefer the norse shield, but for a battlefield scenario, I'd probably want to go with the roman one.
But for a skirmish or a duel, I'd definitely pick the more versatile/agile norse shield instead, so I have more options. You aren't going to raid a temple or a village in close and heavily organized battle formations.
I'd prefer the Norse type. But I generally favor fluid tactics as is. And I'd also put some spikes on the front part of it for prodding purposes in a defensively situation. They'd be multiple small spikes. For the Roman shield this could work as well, except it would only be three large spikes in a triangular formation, instead of the circular sets on my Norse design. And as the Roman shield covers more of the body, and is rectangular, you could use it as a makeshift fortification using the spikes. You'd plant it in the ground, and use an archer from your unit for offensive measures.
Nice to have you back
Note the Roman scutum is held so the arm holding it cannot get struck by a penetrating arrow. The hand is covered with steel and the forearm cannot be struck making the testudo so effective
Good to see you in good health! Very interesting!
Welcome back, Mr. Metatron
I'm so glad that you are recovering!
Well, now it makes even more sense that the Centurion in For Honor doesn’t use the Scutum. It would just get in the way and weaken his fighting skills.
Always interesting information. Thanks. Fair winds and following seas.
Read/watch Vinland saga! Youd prolly like it!
As always, you give a very concise and precise explanation. Very easy to understand.
I like how you don't break it down by attributes, and then give ratings to them.
Basically, you say the situation and the style of combat determines which shield is "best".
At the end of the empire, we see a rise of horse fighters (knights, Huns, catafracts, etc) and archers (esp. horse archers - Huns, Parthians).
Why did this happen?? Was it the development of the stirrup? Was it new tactics??
YET -- we see the Swiss using halberds to counter knights, which were as long as the spears in phalanxes, which also negated horsemen.
So, was a bit of forgetting and then rediscovering equipment and tactics part of what happened???
How important was the compound bow to this?? Or, didn't the Romans have compound bows?? (I don't think so. But, if the Parthians did, then the Romans knew about them - they were slaughtered by them.)
What adds to the difference is the length of the swords used. It concerns reach around the shield for the viking shield.
Though swords were expensive as hell and only the roman legionary would have great access to them as for vikings,spears and axes
Greetings Metatron!. I am happy to see you are feeling well enough to create content, this kind of stuff is a ray of sunlight in the currently rather grey world. I think I speak for all of us when I say we appreciate the work you do man.
- Love from the US
Thank you, friend.
So basically what you're saying is that you'd go with whichever shield would be best for you're current situation, and in most of YOUR cases, you wouldn't be planning to move/attack with your shield much, and so would prefer the Scutum; BUT, if you DIDN'T have much armor, and so COULDN'T afford to let you shield stay idle, you'd go for a Skjoldr (Norse roundshield). That's fair, but I PERSONALLY, would go for the Skjoldr in most cases because I wanna be able to move as easily as possible, and have as many shield attack options and as much reach as possible; BUT, if I were in a situation in which I WASN'T able to move around much, like say, backed into a corner (literally), THEN I'd go for the Scutum.
good to know you recovered
Welcome back metatron i hope u get better and i hope all world will get better
Good day dear Metatron. Glad to see you recovered! I still didn't get why the european warriors of the viking age chose the viking shield over scutum, despite being aware of the later? There were numerous reliefs on the arcs and columns on Rome depicting scuta. Also, the Bizantines used scuta a lot as a front line equipment (there are Arab sources telling how the Arabs used captured Bizantine scuta). Newer the less, european military picked the viking shield as their primary shield. The argument that "it is easier to disembark from a boat if you have a viking shield" is valid, but only for actual vikings. But what about the Anglo-saxons, the Franks, the Germans?
As I'm not trained with shields or edged melee, I'd want something that's got big coverage and allowed me to use it instictively while focusing more on whatever offensive weapons I got to learn on the fly and avoiding or parrying the incoming attacks.
My definition of too close for comfort combat starts at the 400m minimum range of the main weapon system I'm trained on, a 12cm towed mortar m/1941...
With comfortable engagement distance riding in the 1.5-7.5km indirect range...
I am glad to see you back on your feet again.
After the makeup video with your girlfriend i was thinking about makeup and stuff in ancient and medieval times. Have you planned to do something like that?
Looks like you have gotten better👌👌
I really like the Targe. Re: "Which would you rather wield if you had to fight for your life?" You don't really Wield the Scutum, you hold it, next to 2 other guys, and fight between them. (I'm sure you know why Pawns move forward, but attack diagonally.) A Targe sized roundshield is large enough to protect you from the knees up, works okay against Lobbed arrows, and basically doesn't get in the way, but what I really like about it is you can rim-parry. Rather easily with it, and a little practice. You defend Yourself with a medium diameter roundshield. (The "Viking shield" you're talking about, when there were many, is functionally much like a center-grip targe. Add forearms straps, and it'd be perfect for me.) You don't depend on it, and your team-mates to defend you.
The Cold Steel polycarbonate Targe is superb, I bought two of them and four of the Bucklers. They are perfect for home invasion defense. They will also stop a 9mm slug and are extremely solid, but not too heavy, good stuff.
Cold Steel targe, best yet, I bought two of them, also the bucklers are excellent, too
Cold steel Targe, quality.
Left US at just the right time. Its going to be rough. Hope I get to watch more of your content for years to come.
That highly depends on what weapon I have to use it with as well, doesn't it? With stabby weapons like a spear, gladius, short sword, etc. the scutum is undoubtedly better. But with a slashy weapon like an axe, a slash centered sword, a saber or something like that I think maybe the norse shield has some advantages. The same goes for stabby weapons that need a lot of free room to maneuver like a rapier.
Brilliant and interesting. Thank you
I'd say you are spot on. Even though Shad claims that the kite shield is THE ULTIMATE 🤣 I would still say that the Scutum is best for battle formations. But I also agree that, for 1v1 scenarios, the Norse shield is best. It provides almost the same protection as bigger/taller shields with almost the same nimbleness as a buckler. Like riveted mail, there's a reason it was used for hundreds of years.
Yes! 😀I always wondered which was better!
Hopefully there is someone filling this same role some 300 or 500 years from now reviewing different riot shields from different militaries
Hey Metatron, which type of Roman Scutum do you prefer? Sharper corners or rounded?
I love the new background. It looks great👍
I dig the new set up